Just wanted to say thanks for tracking and posting your Seedborn Muse impact results.
Also, to provide some feedback on our previous conversations, you've made me a full believer in the high-risk, higher-reward mana strategy. Have had some really explosive turns, largely due to the number of 'untap target land' abilities in conjunction with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Gaea's Cradle.
I'd also like to point out that both Beast Whisperer and Bramble Sovereign are a ton of fun in this deck, especially when the Bramble Sovereign copies the Beast Whisperer, which happened for me last weekend. Ironically, the tokens don't draw you a card, but having double the effect still matter for all the creatures we're still casting. The main weakness of Bramble Sovereign is that the deck isn't really geared towards protecting or leveraging tokens in any way at all, but I don't think that matters due to the number of ETB effects or creature abilities we can duplicate by creating tokens, so I still think it's a really nice addition. And even just being able to copy things like Voyaging Satyr or Ley Weaver on an opponent's end step can be backbreaking.
Beast Whisperer took the place of Magus of the Library, which I never got great value from anyway, and Bramble Sovereign took the place of Duskwatch Recruiter for now. This also makes it easier to replace Primordial Sage with something like Vivien Reid in the future if I decide I don't need both the Beast and the Sage.
Great news! I'm always glad to hear of converts to the high-risk high-reward ramp strategy. I hope Yeva has been treating you well in general.
You're absolutely right about both Beast Whisperer and Bramble Sovereign. I've (at long last) gotten around to posting my Guilds of Ravnica review (for the TL;DR folks: I'm bored of Ravnica but Beast Whisperer is money) and I went ahead and formally updated the Bramble Sovereign replacing Acidic Slime that I've been playing with for a while.
Vivien Reid is a great card I've been playing with in other decks, and she was originally slated to test in Garruk, Primal Hunter's slot. But then, before I had a chance to play any Yeva games with her, Beast Whisperer came out and that spot was spoken for. I'm not sure that I like her better than Primordial Sage just because I like a good creature density and, like Garruk, she can only do work at sorcery speed. But I'll agree she is a bomb in other green decks.
It's been about 9 months now since I started my journey brewing Yeva and I would like to thank you so much for providing me with much-needed insight during the development stages of my Yeva deck. I hope you like my version as it wouldn't have come to fruition without your post. Here's a link to mine, I went into as much depth as possible to explain my different choice of cards.
Well, that certainly is a fresh take! Very interesting deck. I'll be happy to link it in the introductory paragraph, if you'd like! I'm also glad to see the love Temur Sabertooth gets from you. That card is sneakily, like, one of the best green creatures ever printed. I use it mainly for protection, but as you point out it has some pretty amazing combo applications too.
Your build does seem to avoid the worst pitfalls of my build, especially the reliance on the combat phase for realistic wins. However, I do have a few worries with mono-green infinite combo. I worry it's not reliable/redundant enough to be depended on and that it's not as fast or interactive as Ux combinations.
So how do you find the speed of the deck? One of the biggest problems for me in facing true competitive decks is the inability to interact meaningfully in the very early turns, minus some super-lucky draw into Beast Within or something. How does the deck fair, for example, against decks that are looking to combo off T4? I do see your deck is faster, as you're playing with more 1cc dorks. Is that enough to get in the game before the game is over?
I also worry about the dependence on Temur Sabertooth for the combo outlets, as awesome as he is. What's the backup plan for if he gets exiled (I presume from hand/library, as I doubt you'd run him out before absolutely needed)? I will throw out that Concordant Crossroads might be a good add. Haste for everything seems to work in your favor, plus you can dump the whole deck and swing if your other combo outlets are "dealt with".
Finally, a few pages back, osieorb18 mentioned the infinite mana combo of Maze of Ith and Argothian Elder (or any double land untapper). It's only in the combat phase, of course, but with Yeva that doesn't really matter. Would that make a good addition to your "big dorks"? I know spending a land drop on something that doesn't make mana sucks, but it could add some extra redundancy to the combo.
I do really like this deck, and I hope you are having good luck with it! Make sure to keep us up to date.
Thank you! Thank you so much! You validating my deck really puts the cherry on top of an already glorious day. I would be totally honored to be put on your page as this is the first thing you get when googling for a competitive Yeva deck and you laid the groundwork for this thing I've worked so many sleepless nights on. You were onto something, dude, you really were thanks again.
As for the deck, it consistently closes out a game between T5-7, which is perfectly fine within Yeva's power level as the General. So if you're being threatened with a kill at T4 you might be up against a Competitive deck where Yeva is definitely outclassed. Which is something I am actually trying to get reevaluated. Yeva is currently considered a Mid Power tier General, so I created my list in defiance of that classification as I believe she can play with the Higher Power tiered generals. So, once I am perfectly happy with the list I can let Shaper know and he'll submit it for review. It'll probably after the upcoming Ravnica set, cause I want to see what Simic and Gruul will bring us Yeva mains :). Below is a link to the tier list created by arguably the best cEDH players known on the web, check their stuff out it really helped me optimized my deck.
As for the speed, it's quite great given all the value cards in it.
Which, by the way, why didn't you consider Generous Patron? When you neglected to even mention it in your Battlebond review I cried inside a bit. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!! It's an Instant-speed Divination that leaves an Elf body (Marwyn makes it feel even better since you can either draw 2 and buff once or buff her twice and still draw one). Sorry for the mini-rant, I legit bought two boosters boxes to get her lol.
The first 1-3 turns you do a neat amount of sorcery speed ramping/drawing and before you hit T4 you're looking to sneak in Yeva with a mana piece. T5 you're waiting to either interact with someone trying to win via: Warping Wail, Nature's Claim, Reclamation Sage, and Beast Within. OR you're legit trying to push a win. The unique thing I love about the deck that is that you can respond to something threatening by winning.
As for Temur Sabertooth, he is an all-star and as you mentioned, a bit of a lynchpin in the deck. Had I written my response this morning I would've told you that my only recourse for such a situation where he was unavailable would have been to use Cloudstone Curio in his place. It's less reliable given the difficulty of consistently getting artifacts out of a green deck. I would have also said to abuse Omnath, Locus of Mana w/ Selvala, Heart of the Wilds along with Quest for Renewal, Seedborn Muse, or one of the many untappers the deck has that could be repeated enough to make A LOT of mana, not infinite, but usually enough to cripple the table severely or look for Cloudstone Curio. Thankfully, I had been in communication with Shaper, the creator of what's arguably THEE best Yisan deck online and he helped me refine the deck. One of the changes we made was Staff of Domination, which effectively does more than Temur does since it only requires us that we sneak in a dork that produces 5 mana and we win without needing Great of Guardian or Wirewood Symbiote . The only downside being that Staff of Domination wins on my turn, which is a change of pace and I also have to draw into it but that could be set up with enough draw with Regal Force. So in the event where the cat is gone we have 2 forms of back up and if I feel like I need more in the future, I will find space for an Umbral Mantle. Yeva retroactively acts as our Concordant Crossroads, so it feels rather hurtful to have it sit in our hand until I need it and the idea of giving my opponents' dorks that might have Summoning Sickness haste doesn't sound too promising.
Argothian Elder has been in and out of the deck so many times. I find his pieces inconsistent, but since I just added the Arbor Elf package(Utopia Sprawl/Wild Growth), I might retest him, but I still feel super iffy about Maze of Ith.
I heavily recommend Earthcraft, Great Oak Guardian, Ambush Commander, and Generous Patron. These have out proven themselves time and time again.
@Inkmoth: Are you aware that your deck is a slower and less focused version of Selvala Brostorm? In my opinion, you're trying to do multiple things at sub-par levels rather than doing one thing at very high efficiency and efficacy. If you want turbo combo, go Selvala Brostorm. If you want reactive big mana, go Yeva. But putting (slower) combo in a reactive shell (at the expense of power and consistency cards from both lists) just seems bad to me.
@Mirrislegend: I am 100% aware of Selvala Brostorm. The purpose of the deck as I've explicitly mentioned on both the guide and in my previous comment is to make the most optimized Yeva deck within her limitations. This is the direction the deck took and it's worked out marvelously well, however I am well aware that in the face of both Selvala and Yisan she is jank as hell, but then again they're in a whole different league where Breakfast Hulk and Paradox Sisay are your biggest threats.
So yes, I agree, given that context Yeva is hella bad. But take a look at the guide, it fleshes out every card choice and clarifies the misconception of it trying to do everything. Not only would I really appreciate it, you might see something you didn't before.
However, I do believe I am not perfect, so I'm willing to hear what you'd do to change it for the better.
Thank you! Thank you so much! You validating my deck really puts the cherry on top of an already glorious day. I would be totally honored to be put on your page as this is the first thing you get when googling for a competitive Yeva deck and you laid the groundwork for this thing I've worked so many sleepless nights on. You were onto something, dude, you really were thanks again.
No worries! It's nice to know someone is reading that insane pile of words out front. I went ahead and updated the introduction to include your deck!
Which, by the way, why didn't you consider Generous Patron? When you neglected to even mention it in your Battlebond review I cried inside a bit. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!! It's an Instant-speed Divination that leaves an Elf body (Marwyn makes it feel even better since you can either draw 2 and buff once or buff her twice and still draw one). Sorry for the mini-rant, I legit bought two boosters boxes to get her lol.
A legitimate question, and I probably should have addressed it! I do think Generous Patron has a role in a budget or elf-centric build of Yeva, but I'm not nearly as bullish on it as you are, and I don't think I'd ever include it in my main list. It's fail case -- a mediocre elven body distributing +1/+1 counters to my creatures -- is pretty devastating, and that case is decided by the opponent. If they don't play any creatures, it's useless. Now, it's true a majority of the time your opponents will have creatures, especially in EDH, but I feel there are other, more reliable forms of card draw. Elvish Visionary, for example, provides half the card advantage guaranteed, without a fail case scenario, for one less mana. If it's working for you, I'm glad to hear! One of these times when I do a budget league I'll give it a test out and see if it performs better than my expectations.
I heavily recommend Earthcraft, Great Oak Guardian, Ambush Commander, and Generous Patron. These have out proven themselves time and time again.
All good cards! Man, Ambush Commander...that takes me back to playing multiplayer elves back in college, right about 8th edition. I think it was one of the first singles I ever bought. It's a bit too risky for what I'm doing with my deck, but I'm glad you've found a use for it. Great Oak Guardian is a fantastic card for combo purposes, but I think it's "fair" use (which is what I'd be looking at) is a bit too mediocre. As for Earthcraft, turning my random dudes into dorks usually isn't that big of a deal. If it could untap non-basics, then sure! But I would have to cut a creature for it, and I like to maintain a certain creature density.
Strangely, the card I've been reevaluating most about in this discussion is Gyre Sage. I'm not as bullish on Marwyn, the Nurturer because of her 3cc cost (though in a dedicated elf deck i do like her synergy with Immaculate Magistrate). I don't really have a way to put counters on the Sage outside of its own ability, but T2 Sage -> T3 Yeva -> T4 untap with 6+ mana seems like a similar use case to Priest of Titania, a card I'm never sad to see. I'm going to have to dig up one of my copies and give it a test, probably in the Krosan Restorer slot.
No worries! It's nice to know someone is reading that insane pile of words out front. I went ahead and updated the introduction to include your deck!
Oh, I more than read them, I absorbed and studied it intensely. It was incredibly well written and extremely helpful, so thank you for taking the time to make this post. I know how difficult it was to get it all out there and know it was purely a labor of love makes me appreciate it that much more. I found myself coming back it to a million times while brewing. Once again thank you so much for including me in your intro paragraph, it's a huge honor!
A legitimate question, and I probably should have addressed it! I do think Generous Patron has a role in a budget or elf-centric build of Yeva, but I'm not nearly as bullish on it as you are, and I don't think I'd ever include it in my main list. It's fail case -- a mediocre elven body distributing +1/+1 counters to my creatures -- is pretty devastating, and that case is decided by the opponent. If they don't play any creatures, it's useless. Now, it's true a majority of the time your opponents will have creatures, especially in EDH, but I feel there are other, more reliable forms of card draw. Elvish Visionary, for example, provides half the card advantage guaranteed, without a fail case scenario, for one less mana. If it's working for you, I'm glad to hear! One of these times when I do a budget league I'll give it a test out and see if it performs better than my expectations.
I guess I see your point, I just felt as though Yeva emulates blue really well and getting draw from wherever and as cost efficiently as possible was key. In my deck it's always been a 3 for 3 (Draw 2; Elf Body), that could manipulated further with Earthcraft effects. As for Earthcraft itself, I implore you to at LEAST try it. It doesn't just turn your creatures into regular dorks, they're dorks with haste effectively giving you an Emerald Medallion, but with an untap effect you can keep vomiting your hand with little to no recourse. Especially if you do it with a Seedborn Muse, which in itself becomes a dork.
I also had a chance to get a game in, which has been hard lately with playgroup schedules. Got my rear end thoroughly trounced. Mediocre starting hand that never topdecked any gas, plus double-hated from the word "go." I need to take my own advice about opening hands! No Seedborn Muse seen.
I discussed Guardian Project, along with a bunch of other cards, in the full review. It didn't make the TL;DR version because it's not a creature (so, not tutorable, little synergy with the rest of the deck) and doesn't seem better than the current non-creature draw suite (more expensive than Evolutionary Leap or Sylvan Library, less powerful than Greater Good). I might test it at some point, but no plans for that yet.
A little too balanced for me. Only untaps once (at your end step), only untaps lands, not creatures. Plus, it's an enchantment, so it doesn't synergize with any of the creature tutor, creature-based draw effects, and is vulnerable to my own artifact/enchantment board wipes (like Rampage of the Clans...
It could be a useful piece in some budget versions (not THAT budget...what is it, a $2 uncommon right now?) but I don't see any room for it in tuned versions of the deck. =/
I do really like this deck, and I hope you are having good luck with it! Make sure to keep us up to date. -Iansisle, 12/07/18
Wow, what an incredible journey it's been since I wrote on here and about a year since I created my Yeva deck, which I owe all the credit to you, dude! Thank you so so so much!
Updates: Well I managed to accomplish what my primary objective was, which was to move Yeva up from being a Mid Power tier general to a High Power tier general. The deck can efficiently win on turns 4-5 at instant speed by:
1. Killing a table with Shaman of Forgotten Ways (we can even remove summoning sickness at instant speed)
3. Wipe all lands, artifacts, planeswalkers, enchantments, and creatures asymmetrically. Doesn't outright win the game, but usually all you need to close.
Generous Patron has still performed marvelously as well as Earthcraft (really hoping you reconsider those two). Genesis Hydra is a beast that can essentially play artifacts and enchantments at instant speed once you hit infinite mana, so I would consider giving this one a try as well, its effect can't be countered btw since it's on cast.
I am hopelessly addicted to playing this deck and it's thanks to you I was able to create it, so thanks a lot and hope you like the route my deck took, Iansisle!
Hey Inkmoth, glad things are working out well for your deck. Best of luck with it going forward!
I'm just posting to let everyone know that Finale of Devastation is a bananas card and will be windmill slammed into this deck the exact moment I can get my hands on one. I've plenty of thoughts on the rest of the set, too, but I'll wait for the full spoiler before I start on the set review.
But, yeah...man. Green Sun's Zenith that's also a reanimation spell and can randomly kill the table? I'm in.
My full thoughts on War to the Spork is up. I loved this set. The TL;DR Version: Finale of Devastation replaced Tooth and Nail in the main deck. Nissa, Who Shakes the World is my favorite new card, although it won't be perfect in my deck. There's tons of new and interesting design space being explored. Return to Nature is my second favorite card, because why not just staple cool effects onto an already good card? I have too many decks, but I'm building more. I somehow didn't screw up the formatting in the OP even once. First time for everything! [/tl;dr]
Emergence Zone I like, though not for Yeva. I don't value it too much as a backup plan, especially as it's a one-shot, and would prefer Winding Canyons for that role. Still, there are going to be so many decks where it's insane it's not even funny.
Bond of Flourishing is aaaaalmost there. It's not really card advantage, after all, since it just replaces itself, but the filtering is a nice effect. I think there are probably decks that will want it. If it was an instant, I'd be more interested.
Great set review! I agree with with everything, except, maybe Vivien's Arkbow. It's pretty great when you need steam but are mana flooded. Still a maybe, since 2 games with it isn't an accurate enough way of gauging its practicability.
Bond of Flourishing: You were right about this one, I tested it out and twice, it made me tuck two tutors. That really sucked.
Emergence Zone: This one has been pretty phenomenal, playing cards like Eldritch Evolution at instant speed really makes for some crazy interactions. I've also used it to combo off like 5 times. Once you go infinite, you can literally do anything at any time, since you can access Crop Rotation out of the deck and unlock that final door for a definitive win.
Are you as happy with Collector Ouphe as me? Feels like a great replacement for Seeds of innocence/Creeping corrosion or maybe even alongside it in some metas.
Good call. Yeah, Collector Ouphe is really good. I'm sorry the reviews for Modern Horizons and M20 have been a bit delayed. I got hit with some ennui when it was announced the site was closing, and I haven't been quite able to shake it off yet.
Without going too much into specifics, as I haven't really evaluated all the cards yet, other things I'm thinking about for Yeva include Force of Vigor, Llanowar Tribe, Springbloom Druid (for budget versions), Elvish Reclaimer (!), Leafkin Druid, and Shared Summons. I also love Wakeroot Elemental's ability to go infinite with Cradle or Nykthos, but it's a bit too clunky and non-synergistic to be included in a fair version of the deck.
The recent sets have provided so many goodies for my yeva deck - which is a bit more casual than your build I think.
From C19 I have been really impressed by Apex Altisaur and Ohran Frostfang.
From Throne of Eldraine I’m looking forward to playing with Kenrith’s Transformation (seems like an upgrade over lignify) and Return of the Wildspeaker (seems like an upgrade over moment’s fall).
Stuff I still want to try: Road of Return (I just love modal spells...) and Voice of Many (is an elf so it could serve as a slightly more expensive Elvish Visionary that draws more cards).
I personally think these last few sets have been amazing for Yeva as well, though my decks leans heavily on the more competitive side.
M20: WOW, Veil of Summer gives us Protection from counters from any source, a cantrip, and hexproof from UB on all permanents/yourself. Shared Summons gives us answers and combos at instant speed.
C19: Ohran Frostfang is a hell of a card, but unfortunately I couldn't make it work. We tend to want our card advantage at instant speed and tapping out makes our Chord of Calling weaker and east to telegraph. Voice of Many is a little to expensive for the uncertainty, I still prefer Generous Patron for this role.
ELD: Oakhame Adversary has been amazing and typically a 2-drop elf in most metas, so that went straight in. Kenrith's Transformation replaced my Lignify, though I believe both should be run alongside each other, so I am still having trouple figuring out a cut for that.
Lurked here for a while and finally got around to posting in this thread. I've been playing Yeva as one of my regular commanders since late 2018. I just wanted to voice my opinion on some of the new cards in sets since the last major revision of the original post, and some of the modifications I've done for my own meta/play style. Also, just a thank to Iansisle for the large amount of work that's gone into this post for so long, and because of that I was able to find a commander that's became my absolute favorite!
Cards I've changed:
Elvish Reclaimer has been one of the best cards IMO for Yeva that I've seen. I've even replaced Tempt with Discovery with it! Being able to repeatedly (to an extent) fetch out lands on an elf creature screams what this deck is all about. Plus once you have the wirewood/temur combo up and running you can even fetch out utility lands at instant speed (given that you have a creature that untaps a land out). Side note, I also run Windswept Heath and Wooded Foothills to help a little with Reclaimer's enough lands in the graveyard pump ability. I can't actively think of a time that actually mattered, but something of note.
Castle Garenbrig has also been a card that I've enjoyed playing. I've swapped it with Blighted Woodland. Comparing it to what I swapped it for Castle Garenbrig and Blighted Woodland both have their effect be 4 mana (2GG vs 3G, which for a mono-green deck is basically the same). However, the effectiveness of the cards is key. (Assuming you have 4 lands out already) On the turn that Castle Garenbrig comes into play you can more often than not be tapped to get 6 usable mana (for spells or active abilities of creatures only)! That mana amount is key for some of our 'cast creature, draw card' creatures. Whereas, Blighted Woodland you have to wait another turn to get the cards ramp (b/c the lands come in tapped and you have to wait to untap them). Technically, Blighted Woodland thins the deck by 2 forests so swapping Castle Garenbrig does have a minor trade off, but well worth it, IMO.
Collector Ouphe is my replacement for Seeds of Innocence. I enjoy this Ouphe mainly because it is a creature that can be flashed out with Yeva. It doesn't destroy artifacts like Seeds does, but flashing this out in response to an opponent tapping out to play an expensive mana rock (them assuming they'll have access to that mana when it resolves) is an amazing feeling!
Questing Beast is what I needed for at my LGS. I replaced Vizier of the Menagerie with it. After playing with Vizier for a while, I felt it was one of the weaker card advantage pieces in the deck. I was also running into more people playing fogs (mainly Constant Mists ). So Questing Beast was my answer to fogs when I'm combo-ing off at the end. This substitution has more to do with my local meta, rather than a 'better' card. Though, deathtouch is a good reason to not having people swing in at you.
Nyxbloom Ancient - It's a hell of a crazy card, but I don't think it's something for the current form of the deck. Because we're looking to get 6+ mana to get our Wirewood/Temur loop going that means you'll need to get out a Nykthos or Gaea's cradle, which can typically make that much mana without a mana-tripler on board. I'd rather a utility creature personally.
Nylea, Keen-Eyed - This almost did it for me, but putting your cards into the graveyard rather than the bottom of the library (like how Duskwatch Recruiter does it) was the deal breaker. Though it's still a 5/6 Indestructible creature that reduces creature cost ... so it's certainly good, just wasn't my cup of tea (and still isn't).
Vivien, Monster's Advocate - That '-2' is really neat. I think there's quite a number of solid plays that can be made with that. It does also give that slight card advantage from the top of your library which works well with our deck style (i.e. heavy on creatures). But, for me, 5 mana is a lot plus it's not a creature (so I can't flash it out). And that makes me hesitant on this card (though I'd love to know other people's opinions because that '-2' ability keeps coming back to my head).
Hyrax Tower Scout - A good backup for if Wirewood Symbiote gets destroy (or worse ... exiled). I don't think it's worth a slot in the maindeck right now, but it has some potential in the future. IDK, I'm still brewing with it. Though it's slow going with the plauge and all
Wildborn Preserver - It used to be in my deck, and was my favorite creature to have paired with Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. A beautiful feedback loop throughout turns in the game when Wildborn gets bigger, Selvala taps for more mana, to be used to make wildborn bigger, etc.! Reach is certainly a good keyword, and being able to flash out Wildborn even without Yeva is a wonderful trick, too. Sadly other than a creature that you can use to put excess mana into each turn after flashing out other creatures, it being an elf, and potentially getting sacrificed to Greater Good, I didn't feel there was that much other synergy with it. It certainly did do work though and would recommend for other people to try Wildborn out!
Titanoth Rex - I don't know why I enjoy this card so much ... basically giving something trample permanently plus drawing a card. Not anything too crazy. I don't think I'd ever throw it into the deck, but something that I enjoy having in the back of my mind for future sets hopefully!
Also, to provide some feedback on our previous conversations, you've made me a full believer in the high-risk, higher-reward mana strategy. Have had some really explosive turns, largely due to the number of 'untap target land' abilities in conjunction with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Gaea's Cradle.
I'd also like to point out that both Beast Whisperer and Bramble Sovereign are a ton of fun in this deck, especially when the Bramble Sovereign copies the Beast Whisperer, which happened for me last weekend. Ironically, the tokens don't draw you a card, but having double the effect still matter for all the creatures we're still casting. The main weakness of Bramble Sovereign is that the deck isn't really geared towards protecting or leveraging tokens in any way at all, but I don't think that matters due to the number of ETB effects or creature abilities we can duplicate by creating tokens, so I still think it's a really nice addition. And even just being able to copy things like Voyaging Satyr or Ley Weaver on an opponent's end step can be backbreaking.
Beast Whisperer took the place of Magus of the Library, which I never got great value from anyway, and Bramble Sovereign took the place of Duskwatch Recruiter for now. This also makes it easier to replace Primordial Sage with something like Vivien Reid in the future if I decide I don't need both the Beast and the Sage.
You're absolutely right about both Beast Whisperer and Bramble Sovereign. I've (at long last) gotten around to posting my Guilds of Ravnica review (for the TL;DR folks: I'm bored of Ravnica but Beast Whisperer is money) and I went ahead and formally updated the Bramble Sovereign replacing Acidic Slime that I've been playing with for a while.
Vivien Reid is a great card I've been playing with in other decks, and she was originally slated to test in Garruk, Primal Hunter's slot. But then, before I had a chance to play any Yeva games with her, Beast Whisperer came out and that spot was spoken for. I'm not sure that I like her better than Primordial Sage just because I like a good creature density and, like Garruk, she can only do work at sorcery speed. But I'll agree she is a bomb in other green decks.
Good hunting!
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/yeva-draw-grow/
Your build does seem to avoid the worst pitfalls of my build, especially the reliance on the combat phase for realistic wins. However, I do have a few worries with mono-green infinite combo. I worry it's not reliable/redundant enough to be depended on and that it's not as fast or interactive as Ux combinations.
So how do you find the speed of the deck? One of the biggest problems for me in facing true competitive decks is the inability to interact meaningfully in the very early turns, minus some super-lucky draw into Beast Within or something. How does the deck fair, for example, against decks that are looking to combo off T4? I do see your deck is faster, as you're playing with more 1cc dorks. Is that enough to get in the game before the game is over?
I also worry about the dependence on Temur Sabertooth for the combo outlets, as awesome as he is. What's the backup plan for if he gets exiled (I presume from hand/library, as I doubt you'd run him out before absolutely needed)? I will throw out that Concordant Crossroads might be a good add. Haste for everything seems to work in your favor, plus you can dump the whole deck and swing if your other combo outlets are "dealt with".
Finally, a few pages back, osieorb18 mentioned the infinite mana combo of Maze of Ith and Argothian Elder (or any double land untapper). It's only in the combat phase, of course, but with Yeva that doesn't really matter. Would that make a good addition to your "big dorks"? I know spending a land drop on something that doesn't make mana sucks, but it could add some extra redundancy to the combo.
I do really like this deck, and I hope you are having good luck with it! Make sure to keep us up to date.
As for the deck, it consistently closes out a game between T5-7, which is perfectly fine within Yeva's power level as the General. So if you're being threatened with a kill at T4 you might be up against a Competitive deck where Yeva is definitely outclassed. Which is something I am actually trying to get reevaluated. Yeva is currently considered a Mid Power tier General, so I created my list in defiance of that classification as I believe she can play with the Higher Power tiered generals. So, once I am perfectly happy with the list I can let Shaper know and he'll submit it for review. It'll probably after the upcoming Ravnica set, cause I want to see what Simic and Gruul will bring us Yeva mains :). Below is a link to the tier list created by arguably the best cEDH players known on the web, check their stuff out it really helped me optimized my deck.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/
As for the speed, it's quite great given all the value cards in it.
Which, by the way, why didn't you consider Generous Patron? When you neglected to even mention it in your Battlebond review I cried inside a bit. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!! It's an Instant-speed Divination that leaves an Elf body (Marwyn makes it feel even better since you can either draw 2 and buff once or buff her twice and still draw one). Sorry for the mini-rant, I legit bought two boosters boxes to get her lol.
The first 1-3 turns you do a neat amount of sorcery speed ramping/drawing and before you hit T4 you're looking to sneak in Yeva with a mana piece. T5 you're waiting to either interact with someone trying to win via: Warping Wail, Nature's Claim, Reclamation Sage, and Beast Within. OR you're legit trying to push a win. The unique thing I love about the deck that is that you can respond to something threatening by winning.
As for Temur Sabertooth, he is an all-star and as you mentioned, a bit of a lynchpin in the deck. Had I written my response this morning I would've told you that my only recourse for such a situation where he was unavailable would have been to use Cloudstone Curio in his place. It's less reliable given the difficulty of consistently getting artifacts out of a green deck. I would have also said to abuse Omnath, Locus of Mana w/ Selvala, Heart of the Wilds along with Quest for Renewal, Seedborn Muse, or one of the many untappers the deck has that could be repeated enough to make A LOT of mana, not infinite, but usually enough to cripple the table severely or look for Cloudstone Curio. Thankfully, I had been in communication with Shaper, the creator of what's arguably THEE best Yisan deck online and he helped me refine the deck. One of the changes we made was Staff of Domination, which effectively does more than Temur does since it only requires us that we sneak in a dork that produces 5 mana and we win without needing Great of Guardian or Wirewood Symbiote . The only downside being that Staff of Domination wins on my turn, which is a change of pace and I also have to draw into it but that could be set up with enough draw with Regal Force. So in the event where the cat is gone we have 2 forms of back up and if I feel like I need more in the future, I will find space for an Umbral Mantle. Yeva retroactively acts as our Concordant Crossroads, so it feels rather hurtful to have it sit in our hand until I need it and the idea of giving my opponents' dorks that might have Summoning Sickness haste doesn't sound too promising.
Argothian Elder has been in and out of the deck so many times. I find his pieces inconsistent, but since I just added the Arbor Elf package(Utopia Sprawl/Wild Growth), I might retest him, but I still feel super iffy about Maze of Ith.
I heavily recommend Earthcraft, Great Oak Guardian, Ambush Commander, and Generous Patron. These have out proven themselves time and time again.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
So yes, I agree, given that context Yeva is hella bad. But take a look at the guide, it fleshes out every card choice and clarifies the misconception of it trying to do everything. Not only would I really appreciate it, you might see something you didn't before.
However, I do believe I am not perfect, so I'm willing to hear what you'd do to change it for the better.
No worries! It's nice to know someone is reading that insane pile of words out front. I went ahead and updated the introduction to include your deck!
A legitimate question, and I probably should have addressed it! I do think Generous Patron has a role in a budget or elf-centric build of Yeva, but I'm not nearly as bullish on it as you are, and I don't think I'd ever include it in my main list. It's fail case -- a mediocre elven body distributing +1/+1 counters to my creatures -- is pretty devastating, and that case is decided by the opponent. If they don't play any creatures, it's useless. Now, it's true a majority of the time your opponents will have creatures, especially in EDH, but I feel there are other, more reliable forms of card draw. Elvish Visionary, for example, provides half the card advantage guaranteed, without a fail case scenario, for one less mana. If it's working for you, I'm glad to hear! One of these times when I do a budget league I'll give it a test out and see if it performs better than my expectations.
All good cards! Man, Ambush Commander...that takes me back to playing multiplayer elves back in college, right about 8th edition. I think it was one of the first singles I ever bought. It's a bit too risky for what I'm doing with my deck, but I'm glad you've found a use for it. Great Oak Guardian is a fantastic card for combo purposes, but I think it's "fair" use (which is what I'd be looking at) is a bit too mediocre. As for Earthcraft, turning my random dudes into dorks usually isn't that big of a deal. If it could untap non-basics, then sure! But I would have to cut a creature for it, and I like to maintain a certain creature density.
Strangely, the card I've been reevaluating most about in this discussion is Gyre Sage. I'm not as bullish on Marwyn, the Nurturer because of her 3cc cost (though in a dedicated elf deck i do like her synergy with Immaculate Magistrate). I don't really have a way to put counters on the Sage outside of its own ability, but T2 Sage -> T3 Yeva -> T4 untap with 6+ mana seems like a similar use case to Priest of Titania, a card I'm never sad to see. I'm going to have to dig up one of my copies and give it a test, probably in the Krosan Restorer slot.
Oh, I more than read them, I absorbed and studied it intensely. It was incredibly well written and extremely helpful, so thank you for taking the time to make this post. I know how difficult it was to get it all out there and know it was purely a labor of love makes me appreciate it that much more. I found myself coming back it to a million times while brewing. Once again thank you so much for including me in your intro paragraph, it's a huge honor!
I guess I see your point, I just felt as though Yeva emulates blue really well and getting draw from wherever and as cost efficiently as possible was key. In my deck it's always been a 3 for 3 (Draw 2; Elf Body), that could manipulated further with Earthcraft effects. As for Earthcraft itself, I implore you to at LEAST try it. It doesn't just turn your creatures into regular dorks, they're dorks with haste effectively giving you an Emerald Medallion, but with an untap effect you can keep vomiting your hand with little to no recourse. Especially if you do it with a Seedborn Muse, which in itself becomes a dork.
TL;DR version: No snap includes, will playtest Rampage of the Clans.
I also had a chance to get a game in, which has been hard lately with playgroup schedules. Got my rear end thoroughly trounced. Mediocre starting hand that never topdecked any gas, plus double-hated from the word "go." I need to take my own advice about opening hands! No Seedborn Muse seen.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
It could be a useful piece in some budget versions (not THAT budget...what is it, a $2 uncommon right now?) but I don't see any room for it in tuned versions of the deck. =/
Wow, what an incredible journey it's been since I wrote on here and about a year since I created my Yeva deck, which I owe all the credit to you, dude! Thank you so so so much!
Updates: Well I managed to accomplish what my primary objective was, which was to move Yeva up from being a Mid Power tier general to a High Power tier general. The deck can efficiently win on turns 4-5 at instant speed by:
1. Killing a table with Shaman of Forgotten Ways (we can even remove summoning sickness at instant speed)
2. Mill the table by looping Geier Reach Sanitarium's effect. Noxious Revival loops keep us from milling out.
3. Wipe all lands, artifacts, planeswalkers, enchantments, and creatures asymmetrically. Doesn't outright win the game, but usually all you need to close.
Generous Patron has still performed marvelously as well as Earthcraft (really hoping you reconsider those two). Genesis Hydra is a beast that can essentially play artifacts and enchantments at instant speed once you hit infinite mana, so I would consider giving this one a try as well, its effect can't be countered btw since it's on cast.
I am hopelessly addicted to playing this deck and it's thanks to you I was able to create it, so thanks a lot and hope you like the route my deck took, Iansisle!
I'm just posting to let everyone know that Finale of Devastation is a bananas card and will be windmill slammed into this deck the exact moment I can get my hands on one. I've plenty of thoughts on the rest of the set, too, but I'll wait for the full spoiler before I start on the set review.
But, yeah...man. Green Sun's Zenith that's also a reanimation spell and can randomly kill the table? I'm in.
Finale of Devastation is insanely good and going straight into my version as well. Any Tutor to the field is worth it.
What do you think of Emergence Zone? You can pull off some crazy shenanigans with it.
Bond of Flourishing seems like another awesome card to generate card advantage in our color.
My full thoughts on War to the Spork is up. I loved this set. The TL;DR Version: Finale of Devastation replaced Tooth and Nail in the main deck. Nissa, Who Shakes the World is my favorite new card, although it won't be perfect in my deck. There's tons of new and interesting design space being explored. Return to Nature is my second favorite card, because why not just staple cool effects onto an already good card? I have too many decks, but I'm building more. I somehow didn't screw up the formatting in the OP even once. First time for everything! [/tl;dr]
Emergence Zone I like, though not for Yeva. I don't value it too much as a backup plan, especially as it's a one-shot, and would prefer Winding Canyons for that role. Still, there are going to be so many decks where it's insane it's not even funny.
Bond of Flourishing is aaaaalmost there. It's not really card advantage, after all, since it just replaces itself, but the filtering is a nice effect. I think there are probably decks that will want it. If it was an instant, I'd be more interested.
Bond of Flourishing: You were right about this one, I tested it out and twice, it made me tuck two tutors. That really sucked.
Emergence Zone: This one has been pretty phenomenal, playing cards like Eldritch Evolution at instant speed really makes for some crazy interactions. I've also used it to combo off like 5 times. Once you go infinite, you can literally do anything at any time, since you can access Crop Rotation out of the deck and unlock that final door for a definitive win.
Happy brewing! I can't wait for Modern Horizon.
Without going too much into specifics, as I haven't really evaluated all the cards yet, other things I'm thinking about for Yeva include Force of Vigor, Llanowar Tribe, Springbloom Druid (for budget versions), Elvish Reclaimer (!), Leafkin Druid, and Shared Summons. I also love Wakeroot Elemental's ability to go infinite with Cradle or Nykthos, but it's a bit too clunky and non-synergistic to be included in a fair version of the deck.
From C19 I have been really impressed by Apex Altisaur and Ohran Frostfang.
From Throne of Eldraine I’m looking forward to playing with Kenrith’s Transformation (seems like an upgrade over lignify) and Return of the Wildspeaker (seems like an upgrade over moment’s fall).
Stuff I still want to try: Road of Return (I just love modal spells...) and Voice of Many (is an elf so it could serve as a slightly more expensive Elvish Visionary that draws more cards).
What do you guys think of the recent sets?
M20: WOW, Veil of Summer gives us Protection from counters from any source, a cantrip, and hexproof from UB on all permanents/yourself. Shared Summons gives us answers and combos at instant speed.
C19: Ohran Frostfang is a hell of a card, but unfortunately I couldn't make it work. We tend to want our card advantage at instant speed and tapping out makes our Chord of Calling weaker and east to telegraph. Voice of Many is a little to expensive for the uncertainty, I still prefer Generous Patron for this role.
ELD: Oakhame Adversary has been amazing and typically a 2-drop elf in most metas, so that went straight in. Kenrith's Transformation replaced my Lignify, though I believe both should be run alongside each other, so I am still having trouple figuring out a cut for that.
2019 was Yeva's year imo.
like Nyxbloom Ancient, Nylea, Keen-Eyed and the new Vivien, Monster's Advocate?
Cards I've changed:
Elvish Reclaimer has been one of the best cards IMO for Yeva that I've seen. I've even replaced Tempt with Discovery with it! Being able to repeatedly (to an extent) fetch out lands on an elf creature screams what this deck is all about. Plus once you have the wirewood/temur combo up and running you can even fetch out utility lands at instant speed (given that you have a creature that untaps a land out). Side note, I also run Windswept Heath and Wooded Foothills to help a little with Reclaimer's enough lands in the graveyard pump ability. I can't actively think of a time that actually mattered, but something of note.
Castle Garenbrig has also been a card that I've enjoyed playing. I've swapped it with Blighted Woodland. Comparing it to what I swapped it for Castle Garenbrig and Blighted Woodland both have their effect be 4 mana (2GG vs 3G, which for a mono-green deck is basically the same). However, the effectiveness of the cards is key. (Assuming you have 4 lands out already) On the turn that Castle Garenbrig comes into play you can more often than not be tapped to get 6 usable mana (for spells or active abilities of creatures only)! That mana amount is key for some of our 'cast creature, draw card' creatures. Whereas, Blighted Woodland you have to wait another turn to get the cards ramp (b/c the lands come in tapped and you have to wait to untap them). Technically, Blighted Woodland thins the deck by 2 forests so swapping Castle Garenbrig does have a minor trade off, but well worth it, IMO.
Collector Ouphe is my replacement for Seeds of Innocence. I enjoy this Ouphe mainly because it is a creature that can be flashed out with Yeva. It doesn't destroy artifacts like Seeds does, but flashing this out in response to an opponent tapping out to play an expensive mana rock (them assuming they'll have access to that mana when it resolves) is an amazing feeling!
Questing Beast is what I needed for at my LGS. I replaced Vizier of the Menagerie with it. After playing with Vizier for a while, I felt it was one of the weaker card advantage pieces in the deck. I was also running into more people playing fogs (mainly Constant Mists ). So Questing Beast was my answer to fogs when I'm combo-ing off at the end. This substitution has more to do with my local meta, rather than a 'better' card. Though, deathtouch is a good reason to not having people swing in at you.
Talking about cards now:
As for DooMxWolf's cards (plus I'll also talk about Hyrax Tower Scout, Wildborn Preserver and Titanoth Rex)
Nyxbloom Ancient - It's a hell of a crazy card, but I don't think it's something for the current form of the deck. Because we're looking to get 6+ mana to get our Wirewood/Temur loop going that means you'll need to get out a Nykthos or Gaea's cradle, which can typically make that much mana without a mana-tripler on board. I'd rather a utility creature personally.
Nylea, Keen-Eyed - This almost did it for me, but putting your cards into the graveyard rather than the bottom of the library (like how Duskwatch Recruiter does it) was the deal breaker. Though it's still a 5/6 Indestructible creature that reduces creature cost ... so it's certainly good, just wasn't my cup of tea (and still isn't).
Vivien, Monster's Advocate - That '-2' is really neat. I think there's quite a number of solid plays that can be made with that. It does also give that slight card advantage from the top of your library which works well with our deck style (i.e. heavy on creatures). But, for me, 5 mana is a lot plus it's not a creature (so I can't flash it out). And that makes me hesitant on this card (though I'd love to know other people's opinions because that '-2' ability keeps coming back to my head).
Hyrax Tower Scout - A good backup for if Wirewood Symbiote gets destroy (or worse ... exiled). I don't think it's worth a slot in the maindeck right now, but it has some potential in the future. IDK, I'm still brewing with it. Though it's slow going with the plauge and all
Wildborn Preserver - It used to be in my deck, and was my favorite creature to have paired with Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. A beautiful feedback loop throughout turns in the game when Wildborn gets bigger, Selvala taps for more mana, to be used to make wildborn bigger, etc.! Reach is certainly a good keyword, and being able to flash out Wildborn even without Yeva is a wonderful trick, too. Sadly other than a creature that you can use to put excess mana into each turn after flashing out other creatures, it being an elf, and potentially getting sacrificed to Greater Good, I didn't feel there was that much other synergy with it. It certainly did do work though and would recommend for other people to try Wildborn out!
Titanoth Rex - I don't know why I enjoy this card so much ... basically giving something trample permanently plus drawing a card. Not anything too crazy. I don't think I'd ever throw it into the deck, but something that I enjoy having in the back of my mind for future sets hopefully!