Quote from JDviant »Since you have a few cards you're unsure of, I'd consider swapping them out with a Beast Within or Song of the Dryads. You don't have a way to abuse them, but your list is light on cheap removal and these are catch-alls.
Quote from JDviant »My Surrak list uses Multani's Acolyte as Elvish Visionary #2, and you have a better set-up for bouncing it since I'm lacking the Symbiote. There's also Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, which is roughly a $10 atm, but can be pretty darn amazing and should get you more card-draw.
Quote from JDviant »At the 4 spot I feel like both Trailblazer and Wanderer are unnecessary and not great draws without the Muse and Symbiote and would consider cutting at least one. At 3cc you're already running 3 of that ramp effect.
Quote from Navyat87 »Elvish piper kind fits your strategy. For a green and tapping her you can play any creature from your hand. Also you should look into collected company. Granted it doesn't look like you have a whole lot of creatures at 3 or less but it can potentially help with ramping. Because you don't have cradle money the acolyte is your next best option and you already have one so you're good there. I wouldn't recommend cavern unless it's a tribal deck which this isn't. I'd also look into a birds of paradise, llanowar elves, and an elvish mystic just for early ramp. Other than that the deck looks solid
Quote from Squirrely »Sweet, Yeva's awesome. Like you, I don't really understand why people have cooled down on Yeva, except maybe the fact that she's still a bit good-stuff-y and people tend to stay away from mono green in general? The deck runs the same ramp, utility creatures, graveyard recursion, tutors, etc. as all the other mono green decks do, which makes it less unique on the surface. For example, one of the issues I have with the deck is that the main win-condition is still a variant of Avenger into Craterhoof. That said, her play style throughout the game is quite different with all the instant speed tricks.
Edit: maybe we can brainstorm a funky way for the deck to win without going Avenger into Craterhoof/goat, Genesis Wave for a million or infinite combo. Preferably consisting only of green creatures :P.
For example, I really dig Shaman of the Forgotten Ways in your list, will test as well.
Quote from JDviant »If you're moving in this direction I'd look into Polukranos, World Eater. You can pop him for quite a bit, and if you're trying to control the board you're going to need flexible ways to deal with creatures.
Quote from Squirrely »Again, great discussion!
Quote from Squirrely »I agree with looking at the deck as a control deck. For me, it's the way to set it apart from other green decks.
Having said that, I've never been a huge fan of the 'control deck with a combo finish' type plan. It's more or less what my deck looks like now. Most of my games I'm having a blast playing this deck, sitting back on my cards, flashing in a couple of creatures, protecting my creatures from removal by flashing in other stuff, etc, up until the time when I draw my Craterhoof or Kamahl. I almost feel bad about casting them at that point. My deck was doing so many cool things, but the win condition is still the same. Play dudes, cast overrun, game.
Maybe this is just how it should be though, and I should suck it up. It's certainly the most efficient way to win, and it's not out of theme for the deck. Maybe having a Shaman of Forgotten Ways and 1 or 2 cool fatties is enough to at least steal some wins from my overruns.
Quote from Squirrely »All of the cards listed are fine cuts (especially Vorinclex, that guy's an ********), although I do like Yavimaya Elder (ramp/draw with legs) and Avenger (board control with legs + combo finish).
But, I would never ever ever ever ever cut Seedborn Muse from this deck. When your general allows you to play all your control spells at instant speed, you don't want to cut the only card that enables doing it every single turn. Especially if you run the deck like a control deck, you want as much mana available in each player's turn as you can.
This also ties into the above of running Yeva as a combo piece. Personally, I think that's a waste of a good general and unique play-style. For me, Yeva is the center piece of the deck, the card that makes the whole deck play the way it plays. And Seedborn Muse just helps so much at controlling the board with Yeva. Don't cut Seedborn Muse. Seriously.
Quote from Squirrely »@Pathbreaker Ibex/Kamahl, Fist of Krosa over Craterhoof Behemoth - First of all, I think 2 is a good number of this effect to run. I chose Kamahl and Craterhoof for my deck. Kamahl for repeatability and wrath punishment, Craterhoof for being game-winningly explosive. The Ibex is cool, but the fact that also need a somewhat large creature in play to make it really insane makes it less appealing for me. It's also easier to deal with than the others by just pointing removal at it before the combat step. Craterhoof EtB furthermore is more along the theme of the deck and quite easily reusable with all the self-bounce and graveyard recursion.
Quote from Squirrely »The Great Aurora - I'll think about it. Actually, I'll probably put it into another deck first (Rhys tokens). It's a bit expensive for my taste, because I don't run any mana doublers, and I don't think I need it.
Quote from Squirrely »It's funny to see that we're all looking into the same directions.
Anyway, Wraths are a problem in a way that they prevent the deck from playing its preferred play style. However, I haven't really found Wraths to be more than an annoyance. With all the graveyard recursion (again, Genesis is quite good), you should generally be able to reuse most of your threats and out-value most Wrath-happy decks. Heck, I don't even always let my general go to the command zone when it dies. I would even go as far as to say that -sometimes- I'm even happy to see someone Wrath the board because most of the times another player is more threatening than I am, and at least I also don't have to worry about huge threats coming my way.
Also, I have to say that I also run Caller of the Claw as additional Wrath protection, and Whisperwood Elemental is not half bad either.
But, a little self-bounce is still good to have. I like Wirewood Symbiote best if you just want to protect Yeva. Invasive Species might be interesting, as it's only 3 mana, but I don't know. Wren's Run Packmaster was a card I looked at as well and might just be in that sweet spot. Churning out deathtouchers is pretty good on both defense and offense. I like that it's a threat first and a safety for Yeva second.
Btw, if your meta is Wrath heavy, having something that only counters the first Wrath is not really an answer to your problems. Veilstone Amulet and Temur Sabertooth still seem like the best options in play, and Genesis for grindy recursion.
Oh, and depending on the type of Wrath your opponents run: Yavimaya Hollow.
Quote from Squirrely »Fetchlands are totally unnecessary. Deck thinning is one of the more overrated things in Magic. The only thing that would make me want to run fetch lands in a mono colored deck are cards like Sensei's Divining Top, Titania, Protector of Argoth and Rings of Brighthearth.
Quote from Squirrely »Ancient Tomb and Mana Crypt are obviously good, but with all the ramp green has available to it I'm not sure you want something that damages you. This deck is for the long game, in which having a damaging mana source could actually be dangerous.
Pendelhaven is fine, but probably unlikely to really matter much.
My nonbasics setup:
Command Beacon (for the times Yeva has gotten too expensive)
Homeward Path (don't steal my stuff!)
Miren, the Moaning Well (don't steal my stuff!)
Mosswort Bridge (free spells are nice)
Myriad Landscape (ramp without casting a spell)
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (testing)
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Rogue's Passage (never needed to activate this, but it somehow looks useful. Maybe I'll just cut it)
Terrain Generator (another way to ramp without casting a spell)
Winding Canyons (for when Yeva gets killed)
Yavimaya Hollow (little protection in combat and against certain removal spells)
Quote from Squirrely »Ok, this post is getting long AF, but here's a couple cards I was looking at:
Archetype of Endurance - Expensive, but pretty good way to protect your board against targeted removal. Doesn't help against sweepers though, so probably not good enough.
Caustic Caterpillar - Krosan Grip is better, but this is a creature.
Wirewood Symbiote - I don't run this atm, how do you like it?
Foe-Razer Regent - instant speed Fight + big threat
Polukranos, World Eater - JDviant and I were apparently on the same page. I think this might be good. Plus, it eats fricking WORLD.
Bloodspore Thrinax - just a fun and less all-in variant on the overrun type card. This one made me think about running more +1/+1 counter cards, but at the very least it makes all your small fries into threats and works very well with Spike Weaver.
Worldbreaker - maybe a little expensive for its effect, and would need a little retooling of the mana base (at which point Mirrorpool might be good as well), but it's a good card for sure.
Maze of Ith - classic rattlesnake/protection land for control decks.
Setessan Tactics - Found this in another Yeva thread and it intrigues me. You can even target other people's creatures to help you kill big threats. Imagine pairing this with Hornet Queen.
Managorger Hydra (thanks @Navyat87) and Forgotten Ancient - Babycakes is one of my favorite cards ever. Both pack a huge punch, with Ancient having the added synergy with Spike Weaver (again) for near-infinite fogs. Ok, maybe that +1/+1 counter thing is not such a bad idea after all.
Quote from Squirrely »I think they'll be pretty good (especially Mana Crypt), and you can't really go wrong with them. I still won't be adding them because I'm pretty adamant about not freaking people out to much with this deck. ^^
Quote from Squirrely »Yes and no. I'm aware of the card, but Blighted Woodland costs 5 mana to ramp +1. That's a whole turn. Myriad Landscape can be woven in between other plays, or just sacrificed on turn 3 when you don't have anything else to do and other people are also setting up. I understand the comparison, but I'm to impressed with the Woodland.
Quote from Squirrely »
Nooooooooo. Don't do it! It's on the slow side, but it destroys a whole lot of problem permanents AND has deathtouch to trade with bigger scarier stuff. I definitely wouldn't cut this.
Quote from BlackVise »I don't think the larger amount of life gain from Miren is worth the additional mana required to activate it. High Market is pretty amazing. If you find yourself adding more sac outlets, might I suggest Hua Tuo, Honored Physician? The recursion he brings can really swing games.
Wild Wanderer looks good, but time you're bouncing and recasting it I suspect you've likely got access to a decent amount of mana anyway. Have you considered Sakura-Tribe Elder instead? Or even a Llanowar Elves variant for Wirewood Symbiote fodder?
Quote from Squirrely »I don't have anything new for Yeva, but:
Just wanted to let you know that I was updating my Seton, Krosan Protector list and put The Great Aurora in. Maybe the game was a liiiiitle too casual for the deck because I managed to cast a turn 5 Aurora with ~30 mana floating, drawing 17 cards into a 5 forests, Gaea's Cradle, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Deserted Temple. With the floating mana I played Zendikar Resurgent and Lifecrafter's Bestiary and went to town.
I didn't take it all the way because I didn't want to elf-ball the game right then and there, but Aurora was nuts.
On a related note: Seton is one of the more snow-ball-y decks I've ever played.
Quote from Squirrely »Anyway, I don't know about other people, but I absolutely love game reports, even short ones. Also, the shortlists of things that went well and need improvement are very useful.
Quote from Squirrely »General thoughts:
- The point about countering Living Death with Greater Good was something I totally forgot. Overall I think I should reconsider Greater Good for my own list simply because it's that good.
- Glad the deck finished well, and managed to keep control of the board for such a long time. Especially the last part is interesting, because this is the way I think the deck is meant to be played and what sets it apart from other green decks. You're not ramping out big threats, but laying low and trying to control the game.
- Survival is nuts. I'm usually not a big fan of running a lot of tutor effects (or repetitive ones), but both Survival and Fauna Shaman are just too much fun in a deck like this. Being able to tutor up an answer for basically anything at instant speed for only G, and than playing that answer is sweet. And it can find Genesis as well. I dislike that Survival also makes it way easier to find your go-to finishers, but I guess that's something I just have to deal with because I'm not really planning to cut either Survival or Fauna Shaman.
- Great to hear Caustic Caterpillar working out! I totally underestimated the rattlesnake effect the card has. Maybe we could find more rattlesnakes (more deathtouch?, Maze of Ith?), or at least consider Viridian Zealot.
- Planeswalkers in general: I can see some of the Nissas working out very well for this deck. With all the fog effects soft locking people, it's not hard to imagine a planeswalker generating a lot of value. I do think that the deck needs a little more defense to be able to consistently keep attackers at bay in the earlier game (this ties in nicely with wanting more rattlesnakes). Also, planeswalkers attract slightly more attention from other players than I generally like to with this deck, and they're not creatures. On the other hand, planeswalkers as a way to finish the game and gain incremental value would definitely let the deck play out even more differently than other mono green decks and more like a blue control deck. EDIT: obviously, there's the flipwalker Nissa! Man, I should get that in here..
- I recognize that the deck can run out of gas somewhere in the mid game if you don't draw an engine and/or enough answers. Maybe I'll start running a little more cantrip creatures and/or other draw effects to keep up a little tempo, or just cave and go with the Collective Unconscious-type cards (as a green analogue to blue hand-refilling draw spells). I prefer getting by with just cantrips and incremental value though, because those are more innocuous. I considered going deep with the whole Stampeding Wildebeests(and friends)/Elvish Visionary(and friends) thing. At any rate, I think Carven Caryatid might not be a bad card for the deck to hold off early aggression for a bit.
Quote from Squirrely »About being slow to start:
My personal philosophy about this deck is that I don't want to come out of the gates too fast. Maybe I'm wrong, but it could be possible that the fact that other decks went crazy and you didn't is the reason you did come out on top. The Yeva deck is surprisingly good at playing a control game, and deceptively resilient going into the lategame, it's not a surprise that it can tangle with 'better' decks when going late. The fact that other decks are more threatening than you are *should* make them more likely targets to each other while they leave you alone for a bit.
I wonder if having more explosive starts and/or having more control over the early game by nuking manarocks is actually beneficial for the Yeva deck. In its core, it's not meant to be the one that threatens the board and not really set up to compete in an arms race. Destroying manarocks to keep other players in check might only stir their annoyance. I've always had a bit a love-hate relationship with destroying cards that are not direct threats. It's very effective, but people get vindictive when you do. I really the approach of using politics, rattlesnakes and/or other deterrents, and simply 'not being the biggest threat until it's too late' to deal with the board. But, again, it's how I personally look at this deck (and control decks in EDH in general - I have a Kami of Crescent Moon deck, for example). For me, it's what makes casual multiplayer so different from competitive 1v1 games: the way you can play the table/players themselves. This is obviously not for everyone. I don't mind playing land-go for turns while needing to play anything, for example, but other people find this extremely boring.
Disclaimer: the above doesn't hold up if you play with a regular playgroup and your win rate with the deck is very high. If players start to target you early because they recognize that their decks are otherwise not equipped to deal with your Spore Frog lock lategame, you might need to adjust your strategy.
Quote from Squirrely »OP looks very good, and the new list as well. If you like, I can post my personal list in this thread is well. I'm not really interested in starting a new thread, because I don't think having another thread will generate more discussion (and I think this general strategy discussion is way more useful than nit-picking on specific cards).
Quote from Squirrely »Quote from Iansisle »
You're right about this archetype and, although I've said this several times now, I should have listening to you.
Lol, I'm keeping this quote to show to my friends for when they disagree with me ;). Anyway, I'm glad this discussion is getting along nicely and we're getting this deck somewhere awesome!
Quote from Iansisle »
You're right about this archetype and, although I've said this several times now, I should have listening to you.
Quote from Squirrely »Some more cards I found that might be interesting:
Molder Slug - Such a powerful card! Gets a little worse with Sol Ring/Mana Crypt of course, but this deck is pretty low on artifacts. I've always wanted to run it in a deck, maybe this deck is the one. It's also quite beefy.
Dawnstrider - The planeswalker discussion made me think about fogs some more. Even without running PWs, extra fogs might be interesting to look into. I know you don't run Spike Weaver, which is definitely better, so run that one first. Anyway, on-board fogs are neat way to dissuade attacks (and is also an answer to your Godo problem). This does have the downside of not being able to active immediately, but eot flash-untap is pseudo haste.
Spore Flower - I don't think this is very good, but I thought it was funny. Janky fog-on-a-stick = win.
Mycoloth - Very good card with the drawback of being a huge removal magnet that's also card disadvantage when it gets removed. The reason I think it might be worthwhile is that you playing this eot and uncapping negates a bit of that drawback and creates a big board out of nowhere.
Hornet Nest - Nice rattlesnake! Attack me with a 7/7? Flash this is, block, create a board of death touching annoyances. Also fun with Ulvenwald Tracker and a huge opposing flyer. I wish this wasn't grounded, but you can't have it all. I'm going to make room for this, if only because the 'gotcha' feeling will be glorious.
Skullwinder - More deathtouch/rattlesnaking. This is also a political tool to help other people control the biggest threat, while getting something valuable back. The deathtouch is gravy, but gets fat attackers off your back.
Elvish Skysweeper - But Squirrely, what if those attackers are airborne? Kill them! It's not cheap, but it's on a 1-drop (yay) elf (yay!), and it's janky (woohoo)
Radjan Spirit - This is reaching, but I was looking for a way for the potential deathtouch increase (and Hornet Nest) to deal with flyers. Found this, got overly excited because it reminded me of playing Shandalar. Man, it would be so much fun to include this, but I'm not going to because it's probably too sucky. However, the ability does look quite good in this deck, even excluding the deathtouch. Green has no shortage of sturdy ground creatures that can take on an attacker.
Quote from Squirrely »The reason I have it marked is that it just doesn't seem to show up and/or matter enough that I'm sure if I need the card. I seem to have a decently high win rate with the deck as is, without needing Willow Satyr. I played a game yesterday (more about the game in a sec) where I had it in my hand, but didn't need it to close out the game. I guess, in hindsight, if I'd drawn it earlier I might have been able to steal an Avacyn, which is super good.
Other reasons I'm critical is that it's expensive (money), it has to tap, it's awkward with Seedborn, stuff like that. It's just that this discussion has made me (us) look for new cards and it has made me look hard at which cards seem to do enough. It's like with you and Yisan, I guess. Maybe I should keep it in a little longer. (hint hint)
@things becoming non creatures when you steal them: as far as I know, you get to keep them if the ability has already resolved. It only checks for legal targets when you target and on resolution. So if the god somehow becomes a non-creature before Willow resolved, your ability is countered on resolution (fizzled). I think :P.
Quote from Squirrely »@politics/grouphug: Yeah, grouphug attracts hate, and for good reason as well. It doesn't really do anything to even a game out if everyone gets the same benefits. Skullwinder, on paper at least, has the ability to give another struggling player a chance without giving the biggest threat a similar advantage.
@Mystery of the unknown: well, with Yeva, it's like you said in an earlier game report; People are always wary of what you *might* do if you have Yeva out and untapped mana. In her essence, Yeva plays into this mystery, like when you play against a mono blue deck with mana up. That's super fun :).
@ossified: didn't know this was a word, always neat to learn something (not a native speaker).
Quote from Squirrely »Lol, I don't know about that last part, heh.
I don't want to discourage people to not run tutors or powerful cards. My personality is that if I'm playing a game, I'll try my best to come out on top. I don't need to win to have fun, but I do like to figure out the best play in each scenario. But I like my EDH best if it's casual and not too cutthroat. If I have tutors in my deck, it doesn't feel right - to me - to not get the thing that's best in a lot of situations. For some reason it feels disrespectful to my opponents if (for example) I could've gotten that infinite combo off, but didn't. But, at the same time, I know that nobody at the table (myself included) really has fun if the game ends super fast consistently. To help myself enjoy the game to the fullest while also making the game more enjoyable to others, I try to build EDH decks in a way that they're slightly less consistent so I can still try to play optimally without having to sacrifice powerful cards, long games and/or the game being casual.
My absolute biggest pet peeve in EDH is NOT people putting infinite combos or mass mana denial in their decks, but players apologizing for beating you with it or not pulling the trigger because 'it's only in the deck for when I need it'. If you have the win, take it. If you put it into your deck, take responsibility for it. I don't get upset easily, but I'm ready to flip the table when people have the win ON BOARD but don't attack because they 'don't want to win like this'. THEN WHY IS IT IN YOUR DECK IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!!
I'm totally aboard with people running tutors and/or building their decks to maximal power and consistency. Especially if that's the metagame in a regular playgroup. I just find that running fewer tutors in my own deck makes the game more enjoyable for me. Totally selfish decision ^^.
Quote from Squirrely »@Ulvenwald Hydra: Interestingly, I'm moving in the opposite direction on Ulvenwald Hydra, but for different reasons. In my game last night I could've used a little more defense against big flyers. Apparently (never noticed this), the Hydra has reach. At the point where flyers are getting big enough to be a problem, this guy will eat them alive WHILE tutoring for ANY land. And he also scales well into the lategame to either block even larger flyers (he holds of an Avacyn very nicely, for example), or just smash for tons of damage. I'm considering running him.
Quote from Squirrely »Alright, that game. Report might be a little long, but it's a perfect recap of how the deck/design worked beautifully.
*snip a very detailed and wonderful description*
Quote from Squirrely »Random thoughts after the game:
- Regal Behemoth is such a cool card! It took potential attackers off me (the only time I got attacked was by a 2/2 flyer from Sakashima to get the crown), and my fog softlock meant I suddenly had a green Phyrexian Arena! Drawing the card at eot wasn't even a drawback in this deck. It's also great to flash this in eot and untap with a mana doubler out of nowhere.
- Shaman of Forgotten Ways is not leaving my deck. It's exactly what I was looking for as an alternative way to kill people.
- Sorcery speed cards felt like a liability. I basically never wanted to cast anything on my turn. Even though I could've gotten a little value out of them, I had both Panharmonicon and Cloudstone Curio in my hand for a while but didn't want to cast them because that meant exposing myself and giving up flexibility (and the threat of flexibility). It's not likely I'm not going to cut them very soon, but I think I will be cutting my spell-based ramp for slightly worse creature-based ramp.
- Having said the above, I AM reconsidering Greater Good. I have fewer fatties than most green decks, but the card-draw is sooooo good and it's also one of my favorite cards of all time. I should at least consider Momentous Fall to stay on theme.
- Huge flyers can still be a problem. I had the good luck (or was it planned all along, muaaHAHAHAHAHA) this game that my opponents where too focused on each other. If Sigarda had attacked me earlier instead of the other players, or if a couple of those Avacyns had been pointed at my face, I don't know if I had been able to make it out alive. Looking at Ulvenwald Hydra, Cloudthresher, Thornweald Archer and friends, Dawnstrider, even Stingerfling Spider (even though those would not have been able to deal with Avacyn or Sigarda).
- The deck can use a little more velocity. Not sure what I would cut for it, but a Stampeding Serow/Roaring Primadox/Masked Admirers/Wall of Blossoms/Carven Caryatid package might be coming in soon.
Quote from Squirrely »- Ohran Viper: Deathtouch is something I love in this deck, and the incremental card advantage is cool. The fact that it's a riff on an old BLUE ability makes it super on-theme for the deck. Also, it's a snowy snake.
- Reincarnation: I'm almost sad they reprinted this in a commander deck because that means the chance is higher that people have seen the card. But, I've never seen anyone actually play this, and I think it's quite interesting. Doom Blade my guy? I'll bring it back (triggering all the nasty stuff again). Better yet, I'll bring back this even better creature! BETTER YET, I'll cast this on my Yavimaya Elder, sac it and get back my monster. Ridiculously unexpected card.
Quote from darrenhabib »This deck looks pretty tuned. I have a lot of experience with this type of deck, using Seedborn Muse and essentially taking another turn every players turn. You'll know what mean.
You can never have enough card draw. Once you get the card draw going you might have extra in hand, but making sure you get it in the first place is key to any green deck looking to ramp and play out multiple things every turn.
I'd put in Garruk, Primal Hunter and Memory Jar. Memory Jar is restricted and banned in other formats for a reason.
Quote from darrenhabib »I can't stress this enough, but Summoner's Pact is just simply amazing in this type of deck. 99.9% of the time is to get Seedborn Muse. The fact that you are playing out creatures each players turn, negates the fact that you have to spend 4 mana in your own turn. Same with Natural Order, will often be used for Seedborn Muse, rather than a finisher.
Quote from darrenhabib »I do think 37 lands is a lot for a deck that only has Exploration to put in extra lands into play. Either you need Oracle of Mul Daya, Courser of Kruphix and Azusa, Lost but Seeking, or to take the land count down to justify. I'd either make it 35 lands, or get those extra land into play cards into the deck.
Quote from darrenhabib »Cards that I think are weakest in your deck are Panharmonicon and Cloudstone Curio. With so much mass artifact removal these become much worse.
Quote from darrenhabib »Least helpful creatures are: Timbermare, Masked Admirers, Spore Frog.
Replace Spore Frog with Sylvan Safekeeper. I'd straight up play Spike Weaver over Timbermare for defense.
Quote from darrenhabib »Oh another thing, and you might think I'm crazy, but this is just through experience, is that Avenger of Zendikar is better in this deck than Craterhoof Behemoth. Where as Craterhoof Behemoth is a finisher when you are setup, Avenger can not only be a finisher, but also helps you setup. Maybe its your only spell for a turn, but it makes Regal Force, Gaeas Cradle, blocking even, so much better and helps you to go wide in the first place. Nothing is better than bouncing a Regal Force with Temur Sabertooth and playing it again after a Avenger of Zendikar makes a bunch of creatures.
I have used Craterhoof Behemoth with Yeeva as a defense maneuver in response to Blasphemous Act, which was pretty nice saving all my creatures. I think you could keep both of these cards in..hint, hint Masked Admirers cya.
Quote from Squirrely »@Least helpful creatures: I agree on Timbermare and Masked Admirers (although Timbermare can be cool, and it keeps its place because this is the only deck ever that can run it), but I disagree on Spore Frog. The same argument you posted for Sylvan Safekeeper about being 1 mana holds here. Having multiple fogs in this deck has been great utility for me, especially if you can surprise someone when you only have a couple of mana open. Survival for Spike Weaver into fog costs 6 mana. I do agree that Spike Weaver belongs in the deck.
Quote from Squirrely »Agreed about Sylvan Safekeeper. The utility is very nice. Most games I do not need it, but it feels very safe to have it in the deck. And then, out of nowhere, it saves me from dying.