Welp, I got my mitts on a Helm of the Host but still don't have a clue on what to cut.
I'm also noticing a trend that I don't lose games where I start with Sylvan Library.
Hell yeah, Sylvan is the best. It’s just like every black deck that runs Phyrexian Arena...arguably the best and easily the most underrated card in the deck.
As for cuts, I’m still not a huge fan of Huatli. Also, this deck tends to get overrun with 5-drops (no pun intended), so maybe something like Herald of the Host or Wingmate Roc. Maybe I’m just a wimp, but I don’t like self-exiling effects like God-Pharaoh’s Gift.
Welp, I got my mitts on a Helm of the Host but still don't have a clue on what to cut.
I'm also noticing a trend that I don't lose games where I start with Sylvan Library.
Hell yeah, Sylvan is the best. It’s just like every black deck that runs Phyrexian Arena...arguably the best and easily the most underrated card in the deck.
As for cuts, I’m still not a huge fan of Huatli. Also, this deck tends to get overrun with 5-drops (no pun intended), so maybe something like Herald of the Host or Wingmate Roc. Maybe I’m just a wimp, but I don’t like self-exiling effects like God-Pharaoh’s Gift.
Herald of the Host is absurd! It can solo down a table with Trostani, it's one of the cards first cards I look for in other Trostani builds because it is inexpensive and bonkers good. Have you tried it? I do like Wingmate Roc but less so, even though EonAon jumped to its defense. Another consideration.
Welp, I got my mitts on a Helm of the Host but still don't have a clue on what to cut.
I'm also noticing a trend that I don't lose games where I start with Sylvan Library.
Hell yeah, Sylvan is the best. It’s just like every black deck that runs Phyrexian Arena...arguably the best and easily the most underrated card in the deck.
As for cuts, I’m still not a huge fan of Huatli. Also, this deck tends to get overrun with 5-drops (no pun intended), so maybe something like Herald of the Host or Wingmate Roc. Maybe I’m just a wimp, but I don’t like self-exiling effects like God-Pharaoh’s Gift.
Herald of the Host is absurd! It can solo down a table with Trostani, it's one of the cards first cards I look for in other Trostani builds because it is inexpensive and bonkers good. Have you tried it? I do like Wingmate Roc but less so, even though EonAon jumped to its defense. Another consideration.
Herald of the Host is absurd! It can solo down a table with Trostani, it's one of the cards first cards I look for in other Trostani builds because it is inexpensive and bonkers good.
Just wanted to expand on this point a bit more.
- Admittedly, I did not try the Herald in my own list, because when I first put one together, it had almost 20 five-drops, which is far too many. As I read it today, your current list has 15, and my own still has 16, which seems like a lot, even for a green-based deck with access to all the ramp in the world.
- Furthermore, the Herald's function is to pump out a lot of bodies and quickly gain a lot of life with Trostani on the table. For the same cost, you could play Tendershoot Dryad, Crested Sunmare, Titania, Thragtusk, Wingmate Roc, and the criminally underrated Freyalise to make bodies.
- There's also Selesnya staples like Doubling Season, Karmic Guide, Reveillark and Mirari's Wake, plus Trostani's BFFs Archangel of Thune and Seedborn Muse, all at 5cc.
In summary, it's certainly possible (even likely) that Herald of the Host is really good at making a significant mass of bodies and life-gain triggers, but it's also in a very crowded spot on the curve, if such a thing even exists in this format. Curious to hear more of your thoughts on this subject.
I don't run Doubling Season due to its cost and my personal speculation that it'll get banned (Once Brawl forces the rules council to allow Planeswalkers). Karmic Guide and Reveillark scream combo, so I don't have them in the deck because I don't want people to focus me right out of the gate that combo frequently holds over the rest of the table. I've tried to find room for Mirari's Wake but that's another card that causes the table to panic, so I rather go with something that flys under the radar. I don't think Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury is that good.
I can see how the 5 drop slot is crowded. We ramp to Trostani and then proceed to play an obnoxious 5 drop that'll start the life gain train. Though I see a few cards not as 5 drops even if they're that CMC. You don't curve out and play Shamanic Revelation or Sylvan Reclamation. Those are cards that are cast later in the game. Rout is frequently a seven cast Instant, not a 5 Sorcery. So, by my metrics, I only see eleven 5 drops in the form of my Creatures.
After thinking about it, I've decided to cut God-Pharaoh's Gift as you suggested. It requires a lot more setup and Creatures in my 'yard for me to get its benefit. Helm of the Host benefits me if the only nonland Permanent I have is Trostani, and the effect is absurd if this is my worst-case scenario. Chaining multiple Trostani's would be nice, but there are plenty of Creatures that would become problematic if they're allowed to continually Clone themselves.
Those are all good points.
- Both Doubling Season and Mirari's Wake are removal-magnets, and rightfully so. Every time I cast them, I expect them to be gone before I untap again. That being said, I have a sweet judge foil of each one and I just can't help it.
- I split up the combo by only running Karmic Guide, on the notion that there weren't quite enough targets for Reveillark.
- If the curve does become a concern, one thing you could do is change Sylvan Reclamation for either Act of Authority, Forsake the Worldly, or Return to Dust.
Bramble Sovereign
2GG - 4/4 Dryad
Whenever another nontoken creature enters the battlefield, you may pay 1G. If you do, that creature's controller creates a token that's a copy of that creature.
Yeah, I saw it. I'm considering it but I just think that it's another Trostani, which we don't need since she sits in the Command Zone. Though I guess I could give other people tokens for reasons.
Yeah, I saw it. I'm considering it but I just think that it's another Trostani, which we don't need since she sits in the Command Zone. Though I guess I could give other people tokens for reasons.
I think it’s way better then that. It offers another means of making tokens for Trostani to populate, like Seance and Mirrorpool, but with much less setup work. Plus, it’s a greencreature that triggers for anyETB effect, AND its effect can be used multiple times per turn, even if Trostani isn’t on the table. I’d say it’s a top ten overall green creature in the format, and at its best here.
Yeah, I saw it. I'm considering it but I just think that it's another Trostani, which we don't need since she sits in the Command Zone. Though I guess I could give other people tokens for reasons.
I think it’s way better then that. It offers another means of making tokens for Trostani to populate, like Seance and Mirrorpool, but with much less setup work. Plus, it’s a greencreature that triggers for anyETB effect, AND its effect can be used multiple times per turn, even if Trostani isn’t on the table. I’d say it’s a top ten overall green creature in the format, and at its best here.
OK, OK. You've convinced me to try it out. I just don't want to do that for a few weeks, as I've been slowly buying up a buddy's collection as he leaves Magic. Once I have a bit more of a cash flow I'll give it a try; the question again becomes what to cut. The deck is pretty tight, which is good to show that it is a well oiled machine but it makes a lot of cuts painful.
I wouldn't want to give my opponents to option of drawing cards by killing my own Grothama, so I'll keep him out. Archon does look fun if this was a less competitive build. I only play this deck at a 'pubstomp' tier because otherwise it crushes unsuspecting decks, so a lot of the decks it faces shrug off cutesy things.
I'm actually thinking of cutting more nonbasics for basics to help fuel Knight of the Reliquary, as well be more resistant to land hate that comes with higher tiers of play. Essentially, I would want to cut any nonbasic that just makes mana. I like Command Tower and Sunpetal Grove for their consistency but if they can't be fetched, then a lot of my loops become less powerful (Sun Titan with Windswept Heath, for example). This is why I would keep typed Nonbasics and Arctic Flats because Into the North fetches it.
Shamanic Revelation has been solid, draws a few and gains me a bit of life. I'm hoping that Pir's Whim is going to be much better, solving problems and fetching me any land. Considering how many specialized nonbasics I run, I think it will be incredibly high value.
Really enjoyed following this thread, I just started playing a about a year ago and only have 3 decks this will def be my fourth, seems so fun. Thanks for the inspiration
Really enjoyed following this thread, I just started playing a about a year ago and only have 3 decks this will def be my fourth, seems so fun. Thanks for the inspiration
I hope you've seen enough of the changes that you know you don't need to run out and buy all of the expensive cards. A lot of the cards in this deck can be swapped for something slightly worse but much less expensive. Unless you have infinite budget, in which case go hog wild.
Really enjoyed following this thread, I just started playing a about a year ago and only have 3 decks this will def be my fourth, seems so fun. Thanks for the inspiration
I did the same thing and never looked back. Easily my favorite deck right now.
Yeah i'm hovering at about 150.00 rn, once I finalize it i'll post a "budget" deck list. I wanna try and get it down to like 80-100
Use some of the cards I cut previously that got upgraded by something really expensive: Giant Adephage can probably come back in, Sylvan Library can leave for another draw engine, as examples off of the top of my head.
I wanted less nonbasics so my Knight of the Reliquary had more options while also making my manabase more resilient against nonbasic hate. I added Snow lands so my Into the North had more targets.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Packleader has been a little less impressive of late, though I do admit to enjoying him with a Blade of Selves. In the end, I rather recycle some of the broken cards rather than draw into new, unknown ones. I had a tough time finding a cut for Seasons Past. It's very good but the list is very tight. I agonized before finally settling on Packleader.
Resplendent comes down earlier, lets me generate better tokens than the Standard Angel and with some finagling, I could easily make Angels spawn more Angels.
I moved Wheel of Fortune from Marchesa to Edgar, who gave up Land Tax to Trostani. Sylvan Ranger works very similarly but Land Tax is so much more broken and costs half the mana. Finally, one of the weaker cards got replaced with something dangerous.
I'm also noticing a trend that I don't lose games where I start with Sylvan Library.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Hell yeah, Sylvan is the best. It’s just like every black deck that runs Phyrexian Arena...arguably the best and easily the most underrated card in the deck.
As for cuts, I’m still not a huge fan of Huatli. Also, this deck tends to get overrun with 5-drops (no pun intended), so maybe something like Herald of the Host or Wingmate Roc. Maybe I’m just a wimp, but I don’t like self-exiling effects like God-Pharaoh’s Gift.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
You might be onto something with God-Pharaoh's Gift.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I just know that my list has always had too many fives, so it’s the first place I usually look for cuts.
Edit: what about Gaea’s Blessing? That seems a little out of place.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Just wanted to expand on this point a bit more.
- Admittedly, I did not try the Herald in my own list, because when I first put one together, it had almost 20 five-drops, which is far too many. As I read it today, your current list has 15, and my own still has 16, which seems like a lot, even for a green-based deck with access to all the ramp in the world.
- Furthermore, the Herald's function is to pump out a lot of bodies and quickly gain a lot of life with Trostani on the table. For the same cost, you could play Tendershoot Dryad, Crested Sunmare, Titania, Thragtusk, Wingmate Roc, and the criminally underrated Freyalise to make bodies.
- There's also Selesnya staples like Doubling Season, Karmic Guide, Reveillark and Mirari's Wake, plus Trostani's BFFs Archangel of Thune and Seedborn Muse, all at 5cc.
In summary, it's certainly possible (even likely) that Herald of the Host is really good at making a significant mass of bodies and life-gain triggers, but it's also in a very crowded spot on the curve, if such a thing even exists in this format. Curious to hear more of your thoughts on this subject.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I can see how the 5 drop slot is crowded. We ramp to Trostani and then proceed to play an obnoxious 5 drop that'll start the life gain train. Though I see a few cards not as 5 drops even if they're that CMC. You don't curve out and play Shamanic Revelation or Sylvan Reclamation. Those are cards that are cast later in the game. Rout is frequently a seven cast Instant, not a 5 Sorcery. So, by my metrics, I only see eleven 5 drops in the form of my Creatures.
After thinking about it, I've decided to cut God-Pharaoh's Gift as you suggested. It requires a lot more setup and Creatures in my 'yard for me to get its benefit. Helm of the Host benefits me if the only nonland Permanent I have is Trostani, and the effect is absurd if this is my worst-case scenario. Chaining multiple Trostani's would be nice, but there are plenty of Creatures that would become problematic if they're allowed to continually Clone themselves.
1 Helm of the Host
1 God-Pharaoh's Gift
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
- Both Doubling Season and Mirari's Wake are removal-magnets, and rightfully so. Every time I cast them, I expect them to be gone before I untap again. That being said, I have a sweet judge foil of each one and I just can't help it.
- I split up the combo by only running Karmic Guide, on the notion that there weren't quite enough targets for Reveillark.
- If the curve does become a concern, one thing you could do is change Sylvan Reclamation for either Act of Authority, Forsake the Worldly, or Return to Dust.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Bramble Sovereign
2GG - 4/4 Dryad
Whenever another nontoken creature enters the battlefield, you may pay 1G. If you do, that creature's controller creates a token that's a copy of that creature.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I think it’s way better then that. It offers another means of making tokens for Trostani to populate, like Seance and Mirrorpool, but with much less setup work. Plus, it’s a green creature that triggers for any ETB effect, AND its effect can be used multiple times per turn, even if Trostani isn’t on the table. I’d say it’s a top ten overall green creature in the format, and at its best here.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Archon of Valor's Reach seems fun, too, if you make some copies of it
Bountiful Promenade should also be an auto-include.
And then there is Grothama, All-Devouring. A way for us to draw many cards for some of our tokens, though I think Greater Good is still better.
I'm actually thinking of cutting more nonbasics for basics to help fuel Knight of the Reliquary, as well be more resistant to land hate that comes with higher tiers of play. Essentially, I would want to cut any nonbasic that just makes mana. I like Command Tower and Sunpetal Grove for their consistency but if they can't be fetched, then a lot of my loops become less powerful (Sun Titan with Windswept Heath, for example). This is why I would keep typed Nonbasics and Arctic Flats because Into the North fetches it.
Anyway, made one change:
1 Pir's Whim
1 Shamanic Revelation
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I did the same thing and never looked back. Easily my favorite deck right now.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Made these changes:
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Command Tower
1 Sunpetal Grove
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Seasons Past
1 Garruk's Packleader
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Resplendent Angel
1 Angelic Accord
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Land Tax
1 Sylvan Ranger
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs