Also, while shutting down combat hasn't been too tough, I'm finding myself some trouble with decks that aim to kill us with burn (things like Purphoros or Vicious Shadows or Exsanguinate). Anyone got any ideas on how to deal with these in green? Was considering something like Witchbane Orb, but I'm not sold on it yet...
After a couple rounds of land-go, I play Green Sun's Zenith with x=2, finding Argothian Enchantress. Then Vial Smasher the Fierce hits the table, but before it comes round to me again, Grimgrin drops a Winter Orb, shutting down the world (apparently he was playing some kind of tap-effect deck).
Luckily enough, it's only two turns until Titania's Song puts an end to orb's despotic reign. The whole table has to take a second to read the dang card, but both Grimgrin and Vial Smasher agree that it is horribly bad for them (Vial Smasher is also playing a ton of artifact mana so he can get his big spells).
At this point Riku starts playing Bribery, getting first Grimgrin's Possessed Scab and then my Eternal Witness so he can just keep bribing people all day. Meanwhile I play out Enchantress's Presence, Revelation, and Viridian Revel, flip Nissa and just start drawing cards. Vial Smasher attacks Grimgrin for about 4 damage, and Grimgrin just scoops. I think Titania's Song really got to him, but he should have stuck it out since Vial Smasher follows this up with a Chaos Warp on the Song.
Vial Smasher and Kaervek are throwing around damage, though thanks to Revelation I know neither of them has anything back-breaking in hand. Things are going more or less fine until lo and behold I redraw Titania's Song. Well I guess when you warp chaos, sometimes it warps you right back. I go ahead and play it. This shuts down about 1/2 of Vial Smasher's mana, and since his deck seems to be all about big spells (makes sense, Vial Smasher cares about CC), he finds this very aggravating. So he attacks me with all of his little mana-rock creatures. I play Crop Rotation into Glacial Chasm. This seems to annoy him even further, since he does something kind of stupid and casts Death Cloud for 5. My only creature is Argothian Enchantress, so I sac it and some lands, and discard my hand. This puts me at about 4 forests and Glacial Chasm.
But since a ton of the creatures sacrificed to Death Cloud were artifacts, Viridian Revel ends up drawing me 7 cards, so I probably come out of the Death Cloud better than anyone, since I've got a mana doubler, a full hand, and an invulnerability to damage (plus I drew Wildest Dreams off the revel). Riku still has my Emrakul, but not much else, and his hand is all clones and forks, which are fairly dead against me. Effectively, Vial Smasher has just nuked his own board and hand and brought his life total low enough that Riku's Emrakul can kill him in two turns. He seems to realize this and scoops during Riku's next turn.
Although Riku has the threat of Emrakul hanging over my head, his deck is ill-equipped to deal with a creature-light deck that plays enchantments, since there's precious little to Clone or Fork. That said, I'm pretty low on life from all the Kaervek damage, and it's perfectly possible that Glacial Chasm could kill me. So I spend the next couple turns paying the life on chasm and dropping a couple more forests until I can resolve a Wildest Dreams, returning to my hand, among other things, the Boundless Realms I had pitched to Death Cloud. My mana secured, I let the chasm die, pitch a forest to Holistic Wisdom to get it back and play it again to reset its counters.
The rest of the game was just me digging for Hurricane, resetting the chasm's counters as necessary. I finally find it with only about 35 cards left in the deck, but together with Early Harvest it does the job and finishes Riku off. Not the best game ever since I felt like I won off someone else's misplay, but at the same time, given the hands they had it didn't seem like there were any answers to chasm in the vicinity anyway, and Death Cloud mostly just closed the deal.
TL;DR
- Playing Magic online makes people willing to scoop at the slightest provocation, and so...
- Titania's Song is strong enough that people online playing red/black/blue artifacts will just scoop to it or become frustrated to the point of playing poorly
- Playing creature-light and enchantment-heavy gives people tons of dead cards
- Holistic Wisdom is pretty good for recurring Glacial Chasm. Recurring chasm seems very strong in general, a further argument for Life from the Loam, which I will be adding in soon.
Just a bit of a belated bump in celebration of primer status Feels a bit weird having a primer with so few pages but I guess the monogreen control community is pretty small and this is an especially odd list in not being creature-based.
As for substantive additions, I added in a review of Amonkhet - gonna try out Sandwurm Convergence as it seems pretty cool as a defensive piece that can also provide some decent attacking later on. Not much else really caught my eye, but for those playing more creature-oriented monogreen control there are probably a good batch of decent cards like Vizier of the Menagerie.
And speaking of that... if anyone wants to add anything to the main post on that kind of build or any other general insights that they think should be included, feel free to let me know. I'd be happy to add links and info on that stuff, and hopefully this can be a kind of resource for all kinds; I'm just not personally really qualified to say what works in more ETB-style builds.
Anyway, have a great day y'all!
PS. also added in a few more links to other good threads like toctheyounger's
I'll like to chime in on the discussion, though i'm not that good taking the time do so. But I'll try harder
I havn't updated my own list, so lets talk about yours instead I think you made some rather big changes since I was last active on here.
I see you play Hibernation's End. It's a card I've looked at several times, but never really thought about adding. I can see it being good, if noone answers it, but it takes a long time even though to get more then 1 creature out of it. Which is why I rather just have a normal and cheaper tutor. You also don't run a 1cmc creatures, so you would have to wait two turns getting profit. Maybe you should add a creature at that spot (don't know that many great ones but maybe Sylvan Safekeeper, Caustic Caterpillar or Birds of Paradise) or just play Worldly Tutor
How about Zendikar Resurgent with so few creatures? Maybe Mana Reflection might be a better card, which plays nicely with Nykthos and enchanted lands. If you like the card-draw from it, Lifecrafter's Bestiary might be great.
Just thought I'd put up a (rather long, sorry) game report:
snip
TL;DR
- Playing Magic online makes people willing to scoop at the slightest provocation, and so...
- Titania's Song is strong enough that people online playing red/black/blue artifacts will just scoop to it or become frustrated to the point of playing poorly
- Playing creature-light and enchantment-heavy gives people tons of dead cards
- Holistic Wisdom is pretty good for recurring Glacial Chasm. Recurring chasm seems very strong in general, a further argument for Life from the Loam, which I will be adding in soon.
I had a similar game playing against Something group-huggish and Dragon tribal with Scion. The dragons quickly became a thread and killed off the grouphugger early on, and I was next in line. He swings for lethtal, i crop for glacial, get down Power Conduit. He didn't have an answer for any of those two cards, so we decided he should just scoop, since we didn't want to play it out (me getting enough lands to make an alpha strike with Kamalh). Glacial Chasm is such a good card! The Holistic Wisdom tech is sweet.
I see you don't want to include Heroic Intervention. That's card is a slam dunk for me I also play Asceticism (which I don't see mentioned anywhere in your primer?), which really help me protect my utility creatures.
Oh, and i hate to suggest even more non-basics, but Homeward Path is a land i've included, just to occasionally hamper those pesky stealing mages.
There's also Dryad Arbor, while being vunerable to sweepers, is a great turn 1 target for GSZ.
Edit: The more I think about it, I should properly consider removing Primal Order haha
Hi Roger! Thanks for the input I've actually been away from the deck for a while myself (at least irl) as my playgroup was getting a bit grumpy about Glacial Chasm and Constant Mists shutting them down. But it is my baby after all and I figure I can just not play it against the people who are most opposed to it. So I'm putting it back together, and trying out a couple new ideas with Life from the Loam and Realms Uncharted and cycling lands and so on. Interested to see how it turns out, I know you were trying it - how'd it turn out?
You're right about Hibernation's End, it's next on the chopping block and I think I'll replace it to test Sandwurm Convergence. Worldy Tutor would be a great move, but I feel I've got enough tutors to get to my enchantresses comfortably.
Zendikar Resurgent was at first a budget consideration since it costs way less $$ than Mana Reflection, but the occasional card is nice and the one extra mana isn't too much to pay for it in my book - I'm getting to 7 anyway to flip Nissa. Mana Reflection could definitely be thrown in, and would likely be better than Caged Sun especially as I'm running Titania's Song.
With regard to Heroic Intervention - it seems useful for saving random stuff, and I'd like the deck to have more instant-speed solutions... maybe I should give it a shot. I'd love to respond to Fracturing Gust with it Asceticism only works on creatures so I think it'll be too narrow for me, but you're right that it should be in the primer somewhere.
The nonbasics you mention are a little too niche for me I think, and I already feel like I run too many... Both are cool though, I'll drop them in the primer somewhere. Dryad Arbor is even kind of cool with Life from the Loam as a constant blocker.
Crop Rotation into Glacial Chasm is just so hard for so many decks to handle it's honestly kind of weird - just goes to show more people should pack Ghost Quarter. I friggin' love it tho. Plus the flavor of little Nissa just hiding in a little chasm collecting mana and shivering while everyone's monsters are trying to crush her is just funny to me.
Yeah, people should learn to play targeted land removal more - or not
I havn't been playing that much lately either, and when I have, I've played something else, so I actually don't think I ever tried to draw Life from the Loam yet...
I must admit, I'm tinkering about joining the dark side and doing a G-control with lots of creatures (32! as of now). I playtested a it a bit, and it's playing real nice. Its more in the ilks of the Yeva-builds, but I use Nissa as you do, since the card-advantage is just so freaking good. I usually ramp hard early game, dropping Nissa with 7 lands will net you two cards, since she flips right away. Thats really good to have in the commandzone at at such a cheap cost! I've put my current list in the spoiler, if you care to look.
For a nissa build going the creature route, I was helping toctheyounger come up with a list. While a bit budget, it has apparently been doing quite well. I would suggest looking for his threads on that type of build. It looks pretty good and I showed him how to come up with a nasty sequence of plays with woodland bellower (much of which it looks like you are already running). I guess my Yeva build is somewhere in between since I cross creatures and enchantress to draw all the cards. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out how to retool yeva to get sandwurm convergence into it as well as my other board control cards. She's actually getting quite well tuned!
I did look through that thread, so thanks for that
I think i'm settled on Nissa, but i guess I can always swap her with Yeva since I run both in the deck. I just really like the card advantage she brings to green
My list is both more obnoxious and less obnoxious than what is presented. I don't run the glacial chasm tech, but do run all the board control enchantments.
I am still tuning yeva with 4 new cards, so once I do, I'll present it here.
Congrats on the primer status! And thanks for the link to my thread too, most appreciated.
Feels a bit weird having a primer with so few pages but I guess the monogreen control community is pretty small and this is an especially odd list in not being creature-based.
All primers must start somewhere. I don't think mono green control will ever be as popular as other strategies, but you have a pretty definitive guide here to a good strategy in a remarkably unexplored territory. Mono green control may be a small community, but it's nice to see some recognition for a good list. Kudos to you!
@rogerandover - haha there's no dark side! I honestly think the creature-based list is probably stronger, and it's the kind of list that can actually expect to see good cards printed for it; Wizards doesn't print control in green except by accident, it seems like. Still, I just prefer the all-in enchantress version, feels more controlly to me.
@weltkrieg - I second the motion to see your decklist! I'm intrigued by the possibility of doing both enchantress and creature-based control...
and @toctheyounger - thanks! I did have some thoughts on your list, but I'll put them in your thread
I with you on enchantments. Totally my favorite cardtype! So many great effects and many dont expect them or can't deal with them. I just wanted to have deck that abuses all the great etb-effect tacked on green creatures.
On card discussion - i dont see Seasons Past mentioned anywhere. I look forward testing it myself. Sure it be an overcosted regrowth, but could also be totally amazing.
In your explanation of the deck you say that if someone exiles one of your key cards, you're SOL. This does not have to be the case, have you considered Riftsweeper?
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@rogerandover yeah there are a ton of good ETB guys in green, that new Manglehorn in particular looked good... As for Seasons Past I think it's a great card, and you're right I should put it on the list of considerations. I doubt it'll be an overcosted Regrowth, it'll probably get you at least 2 cards, and I've seen people get 5+ out of it.
@Ertai you're right that Riftsweeper can help in that situation, and we do have a few tutors to pick it up when we need it. If that comes up in your metagame often, then it would be a decent inclusion. Tbh, I've not really had any trouble. And I should probably wheel back that claim a little - while losing Glacial Chasm or Genesis or Constant Mists can be rough, there is a decent amount of redundancy to the point that we can play around it (with a little luck).
If the strategy isn't inherently obvious, please ask and I will explain the card choice. Note that I do not necessarily believe in "good stuff" lists, synergy is stronger than raw power in my meta most of the time , particularly with my play style.
So, some of the cards are a little weird. Cards like Primal Order, Titania's Song, Lignify, etc. are probably going to get questioned. Feel free to do so! However, this deck has a pretty solid win rate for being relatively budget (if the card is expensive, I either got it cheap or had it laying around).
I will note that an obvious omission that most will pick up on is Mana reflection and why isn't it present? I replaced it with Zendikar Resurgent and that was the best change I made. Reasoning?
I am a dual nature deck. Creature flash and enchantment board control. As a mana doubler, mana reflection is almost peerless. However, Zendikar Resurgent does about the same job here (mana reflection only being better in the case of nykthos, shrine to nyx and Karametra's acolyte), but the creature draw on cast? A primordial sage/glimpse of nature effect and triggers my 4 enchantment based draw engines? Yes please!
Edit: After a careful recount of the actual deck and the list I presented here (posted by going through the deck card by card), I need to remove 5 cards. I apologize for that, as I haven't bothered to check it and the list has been re-tuned several times over the years.
Thanks for sharing your list. So different then mine! I'm either creature or enchantment based, but rather spellslinging. Guess there's many ways to do mono green control Btw, i'll post my deck here:
There's a couple of cards that i want to add, but just havn't aquired yet. I badly want to try Nacatl War-Pride, since it plays nicely with Kamahl. Heoric Intervention, think i've shared my fondness of this earlier in this thread. Abundance beacuase of the interaction with Library. And Nissa, Vital Force becuase that emblem rocks. I'm properly cutting karametra's acolyte (great card, but i don't always have that many permanents), gaea's touch (yeah, there's better), zendikar resurgent (few creatures) and bow of nylea (whoever much i like a card with four options, it just doesn't do much). Im also cutting 2 basics for Blasted Landscape and a Myriad Landscape, because i like getting lands into the graveyard.
Im absolutely love playing this deck, which i did today and won both games. First game was a crazy one. Sitting against Prossh, Kaalia and Rashmi, so I didn't think i would stand much of a change. Early game i just ramped hard, playing Tireless Tracker within the first couple of rounds and paired with Sakura-Tribe Scout, he just generated so many clues (i think 17 during the entire game). The game stalled when Kaalia, attacking me, drops out Iona, naming green. I tap Scout, put Glacial Chasm into play, and can't do nothing for at least 4 turns, except untapping one of kaalia creatures each turn, to stall the game so the other players might be able to find an answer. Which Prossh does, Reasembling Skeleton with Dictate of Erebos. Now Prossh takes over, with crazy many tokens and big creatures. He attacks me and rashmi for lethal, but i fog, saccing Drownyard Temple. He sees he can't do nothing about me, but says he'll attack the others. Rashmi then digs up an answer for Dictate, tapping out while do so, letting me pull the win off of Rude Awakening and Kamahl pumping some 10-ish lands up 8/8 tramplers. GG Tireless Tracker is so awesome.
Never underestimate mono green control. My worst enemies are white decks with tons of mass exile or stupid fast combo. Battlecruiser decks, aggro, stax, counter control? I absolutely destroy them. Even my deck is tuned to deal with slaver lock (that's the reason I kept freyalise's winds and squall line. Even if I am going to be at a draw, I'll take that to an outright loss against slaver lock).
I think Scroll Rack, Sensei's Divining Top, and Mirri's Guile work best when there's some way to shuffle the library, and since my ramp is mostly in enchantments I don't actually have ton of shuffling effects. They could still be good here in helping us set up Nissa, Sage Animist to hit lands, and I've definitely considered Mirri's Guile in particular since it's an enchantment. By the later stages of the game, however, the deck draws so many cards in a turn (regular draw + Nissa makes 2, and usually at least 1 more via an enchantress or Tireless Tracker or what have you) that organizing the top three of them would be redundant, since we're going to draw them all anyway.
Burgeoning I'm always of two minds about. It's really good if you get it in your opening hand, of course. But later in the game we want to be more proactive, playing lands and drawing cards to build up mana and dig for a wincon. Waiting for our opponent's turn to drop lands makes Burgeoning less exciting, at least not as exciting as Exploration or Gaea's Touch. Not a bad card by any means, but I'm not sure we need the effect a third time in that form.
HI, Been testing this deck A TON on MTGO, only changes have to do with cards banned on MTGO SOL Ring etc.
I've noticed a couple people talk about Hall of Gemstone.
The comments state that the inclusion has to do with not having green for fog effects on opponents turns. Am I wrong or can't we just cast it during there upkeep while the Hall is on the stack? This saves us and allows us to play a card that I think is AWESOME. Other than that, the deck is super sweet. SOOOO many people have scooped to this build.
I am one of the people talking about not wanting to play Hall of Gemstone. Mainly because I have Kamahl, Fist of Krosa as my commander. Besides that, I have a decent amount of effects that I'd like to possible trigger in opponents turns. Take into account, that my deck is a bit more spell-oriented then @aslidsiksoraksi's, and ofc Hall has its merits, because it's a great card for sure. Also draws a lot of hate though.
I'm gonna test Hall of Gemstone for sure. Outside of Tornado activations, and fog effects I do very little on my opponents turns thus far.
How has Ritual of Subdual been working? There seems to be a bug or something online and my opponents have still been able to tap there lands for colored mana so I haven't been able to capitalize on it yet.
Ritual of Subdual is a card I havn't played that much. It's mostly there to slow things down, like Freyalise's Winds, which I'm not sure aslid's running, but everytime I have it in my hand, there's always a bunch of other stuff I rather do. Initially, I wanted it as a kind of pseudo-draw, but it might be a card i'm going to cut. Maybe for the new spoiled Ramunap Excavator! I like that naga a lot, but I also play cycling-lands, ramp-lands and Strip Mine. My lands also gets animated once in a while, so occasionally they'll end up in the 'yard. Dryad Arbor always does at some point.
You already run the answer. Crop Rotation into Glacial Chasm
Crucible of Worlds would be a powerhouse. I think I'll leave it out for now, people already get mad enough when they see Constant Mists
That said I think I'm going to find a spot for Life from the Loam and the cycle lands, a little recursion never hurt anyone.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Played online against Grimgrin, Corpse-born, Riku of Two Reflections (clones and forks), and Vial Smasher the Fierce partnered with Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist (big spells and burn).
After a couple rounds of land-go, I play Green Sun's Zenith with x=2, finding Argothian Enchantress. Then Vial Smasher the Fierce hits the table, but before it comes round to me again, Grimgrin drops a Winter Orb, shutting down the world (apparently he was playing some kind of tap-effect deck).
Luckily enough, it's only two turns until Titania's Song puts an end to orb's despotic reign. The whole table has to take a second to read the dang card, but both Grimgrin and Vial Smasher agree that it is horribly bad for them (Vial Smasher is also playing a ton of artifact mana so he can get his big spells).
At this point Riku starts playing Bribery, getting first Grimgrin's Possessed Scab and then my Eternal Witness so he can just keep bribing people all day. Meanwhile I play out Enchantress's Presence, Revelation, and Viridian Revel, flip Nissa and just start drawing cards. Vial Smasher attacks Grimgrin for about 4 damage, and Grimgrin just scoops. I think Titania's Song really got to him, but he should have stuck it out since Vial Smasher follows this up with a Chaos Warp on the Song.
Tired of bribing janky recursion creatures, Riku starts double-bribing with Riku in play, getting my Emrakul, the Promised End and Vial Smasher's Kaervek the Merciless. Vial Smasher plays a Doubling Cube, which Riku copies with a Phyrexian Metamorph, so they've both got piles of mana. I do too, since I go ahead and play Zendikar Resurgent, as well as a Holistic Wisdom.
Vial Smasher and Kaervek are throwing around damage, though thanks to Revelation I know neither of them has anything back-breaking in hand. Things are going more or less fine until lo and behold I redraw Titania's Song. Well I guess when you warp chaos, sometimes it warps you right back. I go ahead and play it. This shuts down about 1/2 of Vial Smasher's mana, and since his deck seems to be all about big spells (makes sense, Vial Smasher cares about CC), he finds this very aggravating. So he attacks me with all of his little mana-rock creatures. I play Crop Rotation into Glacial Chasm. This seems to annoy him even further, since he does something kind of stupid and casts Death Cloud for 5. My only creature is Argothian Enchantress, so I sac it and some lands, and discard my hand. This puts me at about 4 forests and Glacial Chasm.
But since a ton of the creatures sacrificed to Death Cloud were artifacts, Viridian Revel ends up drawing me 7 cards, so I probably come out of the Death Cloud better than anyone, since I've got a mana doubler, a full hand, and an invulnerability to damage (plus I drew Wildest Dreams off the revel). Riku still has my Emrakul, but not much else, and his hand is all clones and forks, which are fairly dead against me. Effectively, Vial Smasher has just nuked his own board and hand and brought his life total low enough that Riku's Emrakul can kill him in two turns. He seems to realize this and scoops during Riku's next turn.
Although Riku has the threat of Emrakul hanging over my head, his deck is ill-equipped to deal with a creature-light deck that plays enchantments, since there's precious little to Clone or Fork. That said, I'm pretty low on life from all the Kaervek damage, and it's perfectly possible that Glacial Chasm could kill me. So I spend the next couple turns paying the life on chasm and dropping a couple more forests until I can resolve a Wildest Dreams, returning to my hand, among other things, the Boundless Realms I had pitched to Death Cloud. My mana secured, I let the chasm die, pitch a forest to Holistic Wisdom to get it back and play it again to reset its counters.
The rest of the game was just me digging for Hurricane, resetting the chasm's counters as necessary. I finally find it with only about 35 cards left in the deck, but together with Early Harvest it does the job and finishes Riku off. Not the best game ever since I felt like I won off someone else's misplay, but at the same time, given the hands they had it didn't seem like there were any answers to chasm in the vicinity anyway, and Death Cloud mostly just closed the deal.
TL;DR
- Playing Magic online makes people willing to scoop at the slightest provocation, and so...
- Titania's Song is strong enough that people online playing red/black/blue artifacts will just scoop to it or become frustrated to the point of playing poorly
- Playing creature-light and enchantment-heavy gives people tons of dead cards
- Holistic Wisdom is pretty good for recurring Glacial Chasm. Recurring chasm seems very strong in general, a further argument for Life from the Loam, which I will be adding in soon.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
As for substantive additions, I added in a review of Amonkhet - gonna try out Sandwurm Convergence as it seems pretty cool as a defensive piece that can also provide some decent attacking later on. Not much else really caught my eye, but for those playing more creature-oriented monogreen control there are probably a good batch of decent cards like Vizier of the Menagerie.
And speaking of that... if anyone wants to add anything to the main post on that kind of build or any other general insights that they think should be included, feel free to let me know. I'd be happy to add links and info on that stuff, and hopefully this can be a kind of resource for all kinds; I'm just not personally really qualified to say what works in more ETB-style builds.
Anyway, have a great day y'all!
PS. also added in a few more links to other good threads like toctheyounger's
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
I'll like to chime in on the discussion, though i'm not that good taking the time do so. But I'll try harder
I havn't updated my own list, so lets talk about yours instead
I see you play Hibernation's End. It's a card I've looked at several times, but never really thought about adding. I can see it being good, if noone answers it, but it takes a long time even though to get more then 1 creature out of it. Which is why I rather just have a normal and cheaper tutor. You also don't run a 1cmc creatures, so you would have to wait two turns getting profit. Maybe you should add a creature at that spot (don't know that many great ones but maybe Sylvan Safekeeper, Caustic Caterpillar or Birds of Paradise) or just play Worldly Tutor
How about Zendikar Resurgent with so few creatures? Maybe Mana Reflection might be a better card, which plays nicely with Nykthos and enchanted lands. If you like the card-draw from it, Lifecrafter's Bestiary might be great.
About your game-report:
I had a similar game playing against Something group-huggish and Dragon tribal with Scion. The dragons quickly became a thread and killed off the grouphugger early on, and I was next in line. He swings for lethtal, i crop for glacial, get down Power Conduit. He didn't have an answer for any of those two cards, so we decided he should just scoop, since we didn't want to play it out (me getting enough lands to make an alpha strike with Kamalh).
Glacial Chasm is such a good card! The Holistic Wisdom tech is sweet.
I see you don't want to include Heroic Intervention. That's card is a slam dunk for me
Have a nice day too!
There's also Dryad Arbor, while being vunerable to sweepers, is a great turn 1 target for GSZ.
Edit: The more I think about it, I should properly consider removing Primal Order haha
You're right about Hibernation's End, it's next on the chopping block and I think I'll replace it to test Sandwurm Convergence. Worldy Tutor would be a great move, but I feel I've got enough tutors to get to my enchantresses comfortably.
Zendikar Resurgent was at first a budget consideration since it costs way less $$ than Mana Reflection, but the occasional card is nice and the one extra mana isn't too much to pay for it in my book - I'm getting to 7 anyway to flip Nissa. Mana Reflection could definitely be thrown in, and would likely be better than Caged Sun especially as I'm running Titania's Song.
With regard to Heroic Intervention - it seems useful for saving random stuff, and I'd like the deck to have more instant-speed solutions... maybe I should give it a shot. I'd love to respond to Fracturing Gust with it
The nonbasics you mention are a little too niche for me I think, and I already feel like I run too many... Both are cool though, I'll drop them in the primer somewhere. Dryad Arbor is even kind of cool with Life from the Loam as a constant blocker.
Crop Rotation into Glacial Chasm is just so hard for so many decks to handle it's honestly kind of weird - just goes to show more people should pack Ghost Quarter. I friggin' love it tho. Plus the flavor of little Nissa just hiding in a little chasm collecting mana and shivering while everyone's monsters are trying to crush her is just funny to me.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
I havn't been playing that much lately either, and when I have, I've played something else, so I actually don't think I ever tried to draw Life from the Loam yet...
I must admit, I'm tinkering about joining the dark side and doing a G-control with lots of creatures (32! as of now). I playtested a it a bit, and it's playing real nice. Its more in the ilks of the Yeva-builds, but I use Nissa as you do, since the card-advantage is just so freaking good. I usually ramp hard early game, dropping Nissa with 7 lands will net you two cards, since she flips right away. Thats really good to have in the commandzone at at such a cheap cost! I've put my current list in the spoiler, if you care to look.
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Creatures:
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Fierce Empath
1 Invasive Species
1 Krosan Restorer
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Wood Elves
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Spike Weaver
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Vizier of the Menagerie
1 Willow Satyr
1 Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 Acidic Slime
1 Genesis
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Hornet Queen
1 Crop Rotation
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Constant Mists
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Unravel the Aether
1 Beast Within
1 Momentous Fall
Sorceries
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Explore
1 Nature's Lore
1 Cultivate
1 Eldricth Evolution
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Seeds of Innocence
1 Calming Verse
1 Reap and Sow
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Ezuri's Predation
1 Praetor's Counsel
Artifacts
1 Emerald Medallion
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Birthing Pod
1 Vedalken Orrery
Enchantments
1 Elephant Grass
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Awakening
1 Asceticism
1 Tornado
1 Zendikar Resurgent
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Lands
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Drownyard Temple
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaea's Cradle (if I ever get to own one)
1 Glacial Chasm
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Miren, the Moarning Well
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Winding Canyons
1 Yavimaya Hollows
21 Forest
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I think i'm settled on Nissa, but i guess I can always swap her with Yeva since I run both in the deck. I just really like the card advantage she brings to green
Edit: please share your list here @weltkrieg
I am still tuning yeva with 4 new cards, so once I do, I'll present it here.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
All primers must start somewhere. I don't think mono green control will ever be as popular as other strategies, but you have a pretty definitive guide here to a good strategy in a remarkably unexplored territory. Mono green control may be a small community, but it's nice to see some recognition for a good list. Kudos to you!
@weltkrieg - I second the motion to see your decklist! I'm intrigued by the possibility of doing both enchantress and creature-based control...
and @toctheyounger - thanks! I did have some thoughts on your list, but I'll put them in your thread
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
On card discussion - i dont see Seasons Past mentioned anywhere. I look forward testing it myself. Sure it be an overcosted regrowth, but could also be totally amazing.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
@Ertai you're right that Riftsweeper can help in that situation, and we do have a few tutors to pick it up when we need it. If that comes up in your metagame often, then it would be a decent inclusion. Tbh, I've not really had any trouble. And I should probably wheel back that claim a little - while losing Glacial Chasm or Genesis or Constant Mists can be rough, there is a decent amount of redundancy to the point that we can play around it (with a little luck).
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
If the strategy isn't inherently obvious, please ask and I will explain the card choice. Note that I do not necessarily believe in "good stuff" lists, synergy is stronger than raw power in my meta most of the time , particularly with my play style.
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Maze of Ith
33 Forest
Creatures:
1 Oracle of Mul daya
1 Vigor
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Thunderfoot Baloth
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Tornado Elemental
1 Genesis
1 Worldspine Wurm
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Primordial Sage
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Garruk's Horde
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Brawn
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Regal Force
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Duplicant
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Scavenging ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Nacatl War-Pride
1 Verduran Enchantress
1 Acidic Slime
1 Siege Behemoth
1 Spore Frog
1 Patron of the Orochi
1 Argothian Enchantress
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
1 Brooding Saurian
1 Pathbreaker Ibex
1 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Nature's Lore
1 Search for Tomorrow
Instants:
1 Squall Line
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Summoner's Pact
Enchantments:
1 Lignify
1 Wild Growth
1 Tornado
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Broken Fall
1 Hall of Gemstone
1 Ritual of Subdual
1 Greater Good
1 Freyalise's winds
1 Zendikar Resurgent
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Sylvan Library
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Fertile Ground
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Enchantress' Presence
1 Titania's Song
1 Primal Order
So, some of the cards are a little weird. Cards like Primal Order, Titania's Song, Lignify, etc. are probably going to get questioned. Feel free to do so! However, this deck has a pretty solid win rate for being relatively budget (if the card is expensive, I either got it cheap or had it laying around).
I will note that an obvious omission that most will pick up on is Mana reflection and why isn't it present? I replaced it with Zendikar Resurgent and that was the best change I made. Reasoning?
I am a dual nature deck. Creature flash and enchantment board control. As a mana doubler, mana reflection is almost peerless. However, Zendikar Resurgent does about the same job here (mana reflection only being better in the case of nykthos, shrine to nyx and Karametra's acolyte), but the creature draw on cast? A primordial sage/glimpse of nature effect and triggers my 4 enchantment based draw engines? Yes please!
Edit: After a careful recount of the actual deck and the list I presented here (posted by going through the deck card by card), I need to remove 5 cards. I apologize for that, as I haven't bothered to check it and the list has been re-tuned several times over the years.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Creatures (14):
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Ifh-Biff Efreet
1 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Patron of the Orochi
1 Sakura-Tribe Scout
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Spike Weaver
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Willow Satyr
Instants (6):
1 Beast Within
1 Constant Mists
1 Crop Rotation
1 Savage Summoning
1 Unravel the Aether
1 Vitalize
Sorceries (22):
1 Calming Verse
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Cultivate
1 Explore
1 Far Wanderings
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Harmonize
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Life from the Loam
1 Nature's Lore
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Primal Command
1 Rampant Growth
1 Reap and Sow
1 Regrowth
1 Rude Awakening
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Splendid Reclamation
1 Summer Bloom
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Wildest Dreams
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Power Conduit
1 Vedalken Orrery
Enchantments (17):
1 Arboria
1 Asceticism
1 Awakening
1 Burgeoning
1 Cyclone
1 Elephant Grass
1 Exploration
1 Freyalise's Winds
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Lifegift
1 Ritual of Subdual
1 Sylvan Library
1 Titania's Song
1 Tornado
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Viridian Revel
1 Zendikar Resurgent
Lands (36):
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Drownyard Temple
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Homeward Path
1 Maze of Ith
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Sapseep Forest
1 Slippery Karst
1 Strip Mine
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Winding Canyons
1 Yavimaya Hollow
22 Forest
There's a couple of cards that i want to add, but just havn't aquired yet. I badly want to try Nacatl War-Pride, since it plays nicely with Kamahl. Heoric Intervention, think i've shared my fondness of this earlier in this thread. Abundance beacuase of the interaction with Library. And Nissa, Vital Force becuase that emblem rocks. I'm properly cutting karametra's acolyte (great card, but i don't always have that many permanents), gaea's touch (yeah, there's better), zendikar resurgent (few creatures) and bow of nylea (whoever much i like a card with four options, it just doesn't do much). Im also cutting 2 basics for Blasted Landscape and a Myriad Landscape, because i like getting lands into the graveyard.
Im absolutely love playing this deck, which i did today and won both games. First game was a crazy one. Sitting against Prossh, Kaalia and Rashmi, so I didn't think i would stand much of a change. Early game i just ramped hard, playing Tireless Tracker within the first couple of rounds and paired with Sakura-Tribe Scout, he just generated so many clues (i think 17 during the entire game). The game stalled when Kaalia, attacking me, drops out Iona, naming green. I tap Scout, put Glacial Chasm into play, and can't do nothing for at least 4 turns, except untapping one of kaalia creatures each turn, to stall the game so the other players might be able to find an answer. Which Prossh does, Reasembling Skeleton with Dictate of Erebos. Now Prossh takes over, with crazy many tokens and big creatures. He attacks me and rashmi for lethal, but i fog, saccing Drownyard Temple. He sees he can't do nothing about me, but says he'll attack the others. Rashmi then digs up an answer for Dictate, tapping out while do so, letting me pull the win off of Rude Awakening and Kamahl pumping some 10-ish lands up 8/8 tramplers. GG
Tireless Tracker is so awesome.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I think Scroll Rack, Sensei's Divining Top, and Mirri's Guile work best when there's some way to shuffle the library, and since my ramp is mostly in enchantments I don't actually have ton of shuffling effects. They could still be good here in helping us set up Nissa, Sage Animist to hit lands, and I've definitely considered Mirri's Guile in particular since it's an enchantment. By the later stages of the game, however, the deck draws so many cards in a turn (regular draw + Nissa makes 2, and usually at least 1 more via an enchantress or Tireless Tracker or what have you) that organizing the top three of them would be redundant, since we're going to draw them all anyway.
Burgeoning I'm always of two minds about. It's really good if you get it in your opening hand, of course. But later in the game we want to be more proactive, playing lands and drawing cards to build up mana and dig for a wincon. Waiting for our opponent's turn to drop lands makes Burgeoning less exciting, at least not as exciting as Exploration or Gaea's Touch. Not a bad card by any means, but I'm not sure we need the effect a third time in that form.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
I've noticed a couple people talk about Hall of Gemstone.
The comments state that the inclusion has to do with not having green for fog effects on opponents turns. Am I wrong or can't we just cast it during there upkeep while the Hall is on the stack? This saves us and allows us to play a card that I think is AWESOME. Other than that, the deck is super sweet. SOOOO many people have scooped to this build.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=454137
How has Ritual of Subdual been working? There seems to be a bug or something online and my opponents have still been able to tap there lands for colored mana so I haven't been able to capitalize on it yet.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=454137
Ritual of Subdual is a card I havn't played that much. It's mostly there to slow things down, like Freyalise's Winds, which I'm not sure aslid's running, but everytime I have it in my hand, there's always a bunch of other stuff I rather do. Initially, I wanted it as a kind of pseudo-draw, but it might be a card i'm going to cut. Maybe for the new spoiled Ramunap Excavator! I like that naga a lot, but I also play cycling-lands, ramp-lands and Strip Mine. My lands also gets animated once in a while, so occasionally they'll end up in the 'yard. Dryad Arbor always does at some point.