Myth Unbound HOLY ***** it's great with Miss Nissa! Did you know that when she flips, you can choose to exile her through the Command Zone, then come out as a Walker, which draws you a card. It makes her so much stronger! It's incredibly good, almost as if it was designed with her in mind!
I just looked into the rulings around this. My initial thought was that the flip would not work the way you're suggesting, but apparently I was wrong. That seems really good value.
In general, I'd categorise my castings of Nissa throughout the game as around 3-4 tops, so I'm still on the fence as to whether it's worth it in my build. The cost reduction is nice, but unnecessary so long as my ramp is good. Good to hear it's doing good things for your build though.
Yeah it's pretty awesome the value you get out of her through Myth Unbound. Opponents quickly learn to not attack her in PW form because she'll just die and you'll draw a bunch of cards off of her. In the one game where I had it out, Myth Unbound felt really pseudo broken and fun with her. I actually started using her negative abilities, just to kill her!
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"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
You say a bunch of cards....it is just one per command zone placement, right? Or am I interpreting the card incorrectly?
To be honest I'm never really disappointed when she gets targeted anyway - she is always the least threat I have, and she flips so easily I don't care. People misinterpret her all the time and I'm more than happy for them to do so. They get scared by the ult for some reason. I don't think I've ever used it. Maybe it's just planeswalker stigma, people do target them. Either way, it's an interesting observation with regards to Nissa - not only does it teach you to hone your threat assessment to carve out a win, it shows you how bad other people are at threat assessment
By a bunch of cards, what I mean is that she first flips, and passes through the command zone netting us a card, then she either draws us a card or ramps us with her +1 ability. If they kill her, she goes to the command zone and we get another card, rinse, and repeat. Their only respite is to leave her alone, and then we just keep +1 ing her to draw, or even have incentive to use her -2 and -7 abilities because when she dies, she just draws us more cards. It's just very efficient.
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"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
What do people think of Helix Pinnacle as an alternate Win Con, since we do have the ability to make insane Mana and can stall out the board fairly well?
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"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
By a bunch of cards, what I mean is that she first flips, and passes through the command zone netting us a card, then she either draws us a card or ramps us with her +1 ability. If they kill her, she goes to the command zone and we get another card, rinse, and repeat. Their only respite is to leave her alone, and then we just keep +1 ing her to draw, or even have incentive to use her -2 and -7 abilities because when she dies, she just draws us more cards. It's just very efficient.
Are you really sure this works? Passes through the command zone seems highly unlikely to me, but I could be wrong. To my understanding, commanders enter the Command Zone as a replacement effect, so if when Nissa gets exiled, you can either chose to let her enter the Command Zone or stay in the "exile" zone, which would then bring her back to play as the Planeswalker.
It does work. I have it on the authority of a fairly senior L3 Judge. To quote what another user wrote on Tappedout,
"Replacement effects are continuous effects--they don't really trigger, they simply happen. You can use a replacement effect any time the effect is relevant.
The use of the replacement in this case will trigger Myth Unbound - it's specifically stated in Rule 614.6 that these modified events "may in turn trigger abilities."
You get to return the card because of the language on these flicker effects: they say "return it" or "return that card" to the battlefield. It doesn't specify the card must be in any specific zone--it merely has to be the same card. These cards will look to whichever zone the card was placed in, even if it was modified by a replacement effect. Compare to Oblivion Ring which specifies "the exiled card" - Oblivion Ring only looks to the Exile zone. If you put the card in a different zone, Oblivion Ring can no longer see it.
The more simple explanation:
If you could not use replacement effects in the middle of a spell resolving, you could NEVER send your creature to the command zone if killed by an instant or sorcery.
Per Rules 304.2 (Instant) and 307.2 (sorcery), the final step of resolution of an instant or sorcery is putting the spell into the graveyard. Think of it like an extra bit of language in a spell's rules text that's so obvious it does not need to be printed on the card. So, we could read Murder as fully saying "Destroy Target Creature. Put Murder into your graveyard."
If you could not use replacement effects mid-resolution, you would not be able to return any Murdered creature to the command zone--after all, the creature was destroyed before all the steps of the spell finished resolving."
So to summarize, Nissa goes to Transform, and exiles herself. You place her in the Command Zone instead of exile, triggering Myth Unbound. Niss is then returned to the battlefield Transformed because the card doesn't specify that you have to return her Transformed "From Exile". Make sense?
Wow, that seems really strong. *Myth Unbound added to wishlist*
Only thing I see as a problem is, if Nissa never dies like you experienced. Then it would just be a protection for Nissa, which might be good in it self, but maybe not as powerfull. Well, maybe that just means that I'll eventually get to ulti her Never think I've done that, lol.
By a bunch of cards, what I mean is that she first flips, and passes through the command zone netting us a card, then she either draws us a card or ramps us with her +1 ability. If they kill her, she goes to the command zone and we get another card, rinse, and repeat. Their only respite is to leave her alone, and then we just keep +1 ing her to draw, or even have incentive to use her -2 and -7 abilities because when she dies, she just draws us more cards. It's just very efficient.
Are you really sure this works? Passes through the command zone seems highly unlikely to me, but I could be wrong. To my understanding, commanders enter the Command Zone as a replacement effect, so if when Nissa gets exiled, you can either chose to let her enter the Command Zone or stay in the "exile" zone, which would then bring her back to play as the Planeswalker.
Upon seeing this, I queried with some judges too. Apparently her transformation is not contingent on staying in exile, so she can pass through the command zone on her way to Planeswalker status. My first thoughts were that it would work the way you suggest too, but we are apparently wrong.
Would anyone be willing to take a look at my list, and weigh in on Rofellos's Gift? It feels like a crime not to run this card, but I don't know what I should cut... I COULD cut Noxious Revival, but that seems like a mistake because of the ways Noxious can be used to disrupt opponents's combos.
Hey, sorry have been absent for a long time. Haven't been able to play the deck as much. Might start getting back into it soon though as my playgroup is getting more and more on to the powerful side (can't just play tribal sea creatures anymore, haha)
Nice deck Ender, and I love the alter!!
you asked for cards to cut. I think Snake Pit could go, as it seems situational and we don't have a ton of use for the occasional 1/1. Root Maze also seems questionable, as we don't have a ton of ways to abuse it that I can see. Mostly it will just annoy other people at the table. I've also been somewhat unimpressed by Primal Order. And if it was me I'd cut Vorinclex, Primal Hunger, that guy is just mean
Thanks for your interest in the deck, and keep on slinging them squalls y'all!
I think Primal Order, AKA "Homelands Hates You", is a good piece to keep. I see it as a tenderizer that softens our opponents up for a Squall to finish them off. I wouldn't cut it if I were you.
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"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
yes, agreed on compost being solidly good. other stuff in that vein can also be powerful - if there is a lot of graveyard decks i've found night soil to be quite useful.
In other news - here is a new find I can believe I haven't used before... Al-abara's Carpet
It's another repeatable fog (though somewhat restricted and a little expensive) and it fits nicely with Sandwurm convergence
I haven't played this deck in a while actually, but that weird little find is getting me excited to try it out again. My playgroup just usually hates the prospect of fog-lock so they target me right away can't blame them I guess
I play this is a highly competitive meta against Kess Storm, Blood Pod, Flash Hulk etc, so I'm not the primary threat at first. I manage a decent amount of wins... I always have fun playing this though.
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"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
I play this is a highly competitive meta against Kess Storm, Blood Pod, Flash Hulk etc, so I'm not the primary threat at first. I manage a decent amount of wins... I always have fun playing this though.
Do you have an up to date decklist?
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It's flavor-tastic
Sig made by Tiiratore. PM him if you want one.
Disappointing avatar made by Mirror Entity at Disappointing Signets Inc.
My Decks:
Modern:
(online)Enduring Ideal
(online)BUG
(paper)Mono White Control
Standard:
(paper) Whatever I can throw together
(online) UWR Control
I play this is a highly competitive meta against Kess Storm, Blood Pod, Flash Hulk etc, so I'm not the primary threat at first. I manage a decent amount of wins... I always have fun playing this though.
I havn't had much time for magic lately, but I do still intend to play this deck. Developing less so, I think it's in a pretty good state. It's getting hard to make cuts and havn't seen anything since Multani, Yavimaya's Ancient that I wanted to play/test.
I'm definitely still playing my version. As roger states, it's in a decent state at present and there really isn't much room for cuts. I'm picking up a copy of Bramble Sovereign this weekend, which should lead to some crazy plays and fun times. Other than that I think part of the quietude is that the current releases are pretty heavily multi-coloured. I expected it with Ravnica; there's not nothing, but it is pretty few and far between for picks in a mono green build.
I just looked into the rulings around this. My initial thought was that the flip would not work the way you're suggesting, but apparently I was wrong. That seems really good value.
In general, I'd categorise my castings of Nissa throughout the game as around 3-4 tops, so I'm still on the fence as to whether it's worth it in my build. The cost reduction is nice, but unnecessary so long as my ramp is good. Good to hear it's doing good things for your build though.
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
To be honest I'm never really disappointed when she gets targeted anyway - she is always the least threat I have, and she flips so easily I don't care. People misinterpret her all the time and I'm more than happy for them to do so. They get scared by the ult for some reason. I don't think I've ever used it. Maybe it's just planeswalker stigma, people do target them. Either way, it's an interesting observation with regards to Nissa - not only does it teach you to hone your threat assessment to carve out a win, it shows you how bad other people are at threat assessment
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
Are you really sure this works? Passes through the command zone seems highly unlikely to me, but I could be wrong. To my understanding, commanders enter the Command Zone as a replacement effect, so if when Nissa gets exiled, you can either chose to let her enter the Command Zone or stay in the "exile" zone, which would then bring her back to play as the Planeswalker.
"Replacement effects are continuous effects--they don't really trigger, they simply happen. You can use a replacement effect any time the effect is relevant.
The use of the replacement in this case will trigger Myth Unbound - it's specifically stated in Rule 614.6 that these modified events "may in turn trigger abilities."
You get to return the card because of the language on these flicker effects: they say "return it" or "return that card" to the battlefield. It doesn't specify the card must be in any specific zone--it merely has to be the same card. These cards will look to whichever zone the card was placed in, even if it was modified by a replacement effect. Compare to Oblivion Ring which specifies "the exiled card" - Oblivion Ring only looks to the Exile zone. If you put the card in a different zone, Oblivion Ring can no longer see it.
The more simple explanation:
If you could not use replacement effects in the middle of a spell resolving, you could NEVER send your creature to the command zone if killed by an instant or sorcery.
Per Rules 304.2 (Instant) and 307.2 (sorcery), the final step of resolution of an instant or sorcery is putting the spell into the graveyard. Think of it like an extra bit of language in a spell's rules text that's so obvious it does not need to be printed on the card. So, we could read Murder as fully saying "Destroy Target Creature. Put Murder into your graveyard."
If you could not use replacement effects mid-resolution, you would not be able to return any Murdered creature to the command zone--after all, the creature was destroyed before all the steps of the spell finished resolving."
So to summarize, Nissa goes to Transform, and exiles herself. You place her in the Command Zone instead of exile, triggering Myth Unbound. Niss is then returned to the battlefield Transformed because the card doesn't specify that you have to return her Transformed "From Exile". Make sense?
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
Only thing I see as a problem is, if Nissa never dies like you experienced. Then it would just be a protection for Nissa, which might be good in it self, but maybe not as powerfull. Well, maybe that just means that I'll eventually get to ulti her Never think I've done that, lol.
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
Upon seeing this, I queried with some judges too. Apparently her transformation is not contingent on staying in exile, so she can pass through the command zone on her way to Planeswalker status. My first thoughts were that it would work the way you suggest too, but we are apparently wrong.
Any thoughts? tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ctrl-g
*EDIT* I decided to cut Growing Rites of Itlimoc
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
Nice deck Ender, and I love the alter!!
you asked for cards to cut. I think Snake Pit could go, as it seems situational and we don't have a ton of use for the occasional 1/1. Root Maze also seems questionable, as we don't have a ton of ways to abuse it that I can see. Mostly it will just annoy other people at the table. I've also been somewhat unimpressed by Primal Order. And if it was me I'd cut Vorinclex, Primal Hunger, that guy is just mean
Thanks for your interest in the deck, and keep on slinging them squalls y'all!
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
In other news - here is a new find I can believe I haven't used before... Al-abara's Carpet
It's another repeatable fog (though somewhat restricted and a little expensive) and it fits nicely with Sandwurm convergence
I haven't played this deck in a while actually, but that weird little find is getting me excited to try it out again. My playgroup just usually hates the prospect of fog-lock so they target me right away can't blame them I guess
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
Do you have an up to date decklist?
Modern:
(online)Enduring Ideal
(online)BUG
(paper)Mono White Control
Standard:
(paper) Whatever I can throw together
(online) UWR Control
Legacy:
(paper)The Gate
(paper)Dream Halls
i do at http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ctrl-g/
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
How about you?
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."