Enchantment | Included In: Breed Lethality| Rating: 1/5
Because this is a deck that doesn't want to attack to win, it doesn't benefit us much. The trick to Duelist's Heritage is using politics to your advantage and granting an opponent's creature Double Strike. This necessitates us taking a more active role in the politics of the game than we like, as we're more adept at sitting in the background making long term plans. For this to be of value to us require very specific circumstances, making it not all too desirable.
Instant | Included In: Stalwart Unity | Rating: 2/5
Removal is always a good thing. However, in our colors there is far better and less situational removal than removal that requires your target to be attacking. This is another card that can be used to play up politics like Duelist's Heritage above. It may also be tempting if you're running a tokens package because of the possibility of creating a lot of tokens. The downsides are significant, though. It requires a creature to be attacking which is enough to cause many powerful creatures to trigger their abilities. While it gets around Indestructible by causing your opponent to sacrifice a creature, if there's more than one creature attacking then it gives your opponent the choice of what they will sacrifice, meaning they can minimize the effect of this card (and by proxy, minimize your gains). With Utter End, Anguished Unmaking, Vindicate and so many more great removal spells at our disposal, this one falls short.
Creature | Included In: Breed Lethality | Rating: 2.5/5
An interesting creature that makes opponents think twice about wanting to finish you off. We have plenty of removal in the deck to deal with any threats that Orzhov Advokist may empower. Obviously it's worse against Commanders such as Marchesa, the Black Rose or Ezuri, Claw of Progress considering how much they could get from those counters. If you find yourself being targeted a lot, it may be worth your consideration to stem the tide of attacks coming your way. Generally speaking, we should have enough removal and answers that this isn't really necessary, which is why I'm giving it a 2.5/5. It's not the worst card in Commander 2016 as it can serve some purpose. But the truth is that it shouldn't be necessary to play Orzhov Advokist, at all.
Creature | Included In: Stalwart Unity | Rating: 2.5/5
It's a very cute combat trick, but a costly one at four mana that sits on the field doing a lot of nothing afterwards. We don't really run spells or creatures that prevent damage because it's not really necessary with all the answers we have access to. If you're running a Stax package, the Squire could be okay at best. Without having evasion of any kind, he can be chump blocked all day long and is easily removed. The reason I've rated him at 2.5, though, is that it can be repeatedly abused with Corpse Dance and Mimic Vat in order to respond to threatening amounts of damage. For that reason it does hold some value.
Sorcery | Included In: Breed Lethality | Rating: 1/5
This will probably be a $1.00 card and thus another nice budget option for board wipes. For those not worrying about budget, Wrath of God is still better and worth the extra mana to prevent creatures from regenerating and doesn't get worse as the game progresses (eg. less opponents to make it cost less). It's a Day of Judgment with 3 opponents, then becomes worse as it becomes a 5 or 6 mana Day of Judgment after an opponent or two has been eliminated.
Sorcery | Included In: Entropic Uprising | Rating: 1/5
An interesting and fun looking card that doesn't exile itself (meaning you can bring it back to play later with Xiahou-Dun, the One-Eyed or re-cast it with Yawgmoth's Will). It's a cute effect, but has a lot of potential to come back to haunt us when those turns come around. Nothing is preventing those players from targeting you despite controlling the other player's turn. Personally, I plan for and anticipate my opponents behaving certain ways, and it can throw that all out the window. It doesn't particular further our game plan, but is a fun chaos card if someone feels inclined to play it.
Enchantment | Included In: Invent Superiority | Rating: 1/5
This card has a lot of requirements to make it worthwhile. The enchanted player has to be playing a lot of spells, and there are a lot of variables in the game that could make them play more or less, so there's an inherent inconsistency. EDH/Commander games swing back and forth a lot, meaning that player could be the first out and net you a few cards and some life, or the very last player at which point when they die you win the game, anyway. It could very well end up being removed before anything comes of it and is a good way to make that player want to focus you down until the game is over or they're eliminated. Ultimately it becomes a hard question of when and who to cast it on, and given how inherently inconsistent the card must be, I have to advise against bothering with this card in Ayli.
Instant | Included In: Entropic Uprising | Rating: 2/5
Instant removal is always nice. With three opponents present, you can destroy two target creatures for while again growing a little worse with each opponent eliminated. Earlier in the review I mentioned we have a lot of great spot removal available to our colors, specifically the ability to Exile permanents instead of just creatures. This could be a nice temporary removal spell if you're waiting to get better spot removal, but in many ways even Malicious Affliction is better than Curtain's Call, especially if you can take advantage of Morbid. Malicious Affliction allows you to make another copy of it to put on the stack on cast if you have Morbid, so even if Malicious Affliction is countered, you still get the copy. That's a lot better than Curtain's Call, which is outright countered and which becomes worse as you have less opponents.
Creature | Included In: Invent Superiority | Rating: 4.5/5
As of now, this is only the second time ever this ability has been printed on a card verbatim. The down side of Magus of the Will is it generally having to survive a turn before you can activate it's ability. However, where many see it being on a creature as a fragility, to us it is actually a boon. First, Yawgmoth's Will is a Sorcery. You can activate Magus of the Will on an opponent's turn, making it an Instant-speed Yawgmoth's Will. Second, you can Imprint it on cards like Mimic Vat and Soul Foundry. If he's targeted with spot removal that exiles, we can sacrifice him in response to store him in our graveyard. The biggest downside is the unwanted attention playing him will draw to you. It telegraphs our plans... but can also be used as a red herring to draw out hate in advance of ulterior motives. Because of the risk playing him poses, I've rated him as a 4.5/5, knowing well that redundancy on game breaking effects is in no way a bad thing.
Sorcery | Included In: Invent Superiority | Rating: 0.5/5
I'm not a fan of Sorcery-speed spot removal that only targets creatures. It's very narrow, meaning it sits in your hand when you draw it for quite a while. Vindicate at least targets a permanent. For the same cost, this targets a single creature, and only benefits you if it has counters on it. This could be a huge deal if you're playing against a deck like Ezuri, Claw of Progress, but most of the time will be worse than Doom Blade.
Creature | Included In: Open Hostility | Rating: 2/5
The +1/+1 to our creatures isn't too relevant, unless you're playing a combat oriented Tokens build (personally as tokens I would still be focused more on combo than combat). His second ability is the more interesting part since he can help bring back creatures to cast later. He does suffer the same problem that Athreos, God of Passage does, though: We want to be reanimating from our graveyard, not re-casting. He can fill a niche that Volrath's Stronghold normally does in this deck but not nearly as well as the Stronghold since you can respond to graveyard hate it.
Creatire | Included In: Open Hostility | Rating: 1/5
This is a creature that really wants us to push into territory we don't normally want to go to. She only triggers on your turn at your 2nd Main Phase, which means you had to be the one dealing combat damage to your opponents for her trigger. With the primary build we aren't very combat based, but if you're running a Tokens build this may be a bit more valuable to you. Assuming you're in a pod of 4 players including yourself, you have the max potential of paying 3 life to draw 3 per turn if you attacked each opponent. Then, as you can guess, she gets worse with each opponent less you have left to attack. A tokens package will more easily fly over this or get around blockers with cards like Behind the Scenes, but she is really the antithesis of how this deck plays.
Artifact Creature | Included In: Invent Superiority | Rating: 3/5
This is a fun little toolkit card that has some potential to swing the game. Equipment is an important part of many player's decks that they depend on and includes protection for their Commander such as Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Darksteel Armor, Argentum Armor and so on. Much of the time players utilize Equipment as a way to protect their creatures, whether by using some of the aforementioned Equipment cards to give a creature Shroud, Hexproof or Haste, or maybe even the infamous Swords such as Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of War and Peace to give them protection from colors in addition to powerful effects. This opens those creatures to removal and makes them vulnerable until the Equipment's controller's next turn wherein they'll have to spend mana to equip those cards to another one of their creatures. If they have no creatures left, however, they wouldn't have any creatures to attach those Equipment cards to, however. Keep in mind that it's not as simple as attaching Equipment to the Automaton and attacking, though! The owner still controls the Equipment, so any trigger that says "You" refers to the opponent. For example, if you attacked while Sword of War and Peace were equipped, the part of the triggered ability that reads "You gain 1 life for each card in your hand" would benefit your opponent. So while you deal damage to the player you're attacking with the first part of the trigger, the person who controls the Equipment would be the one gaining the life.
The same applies to Argentum Armor, as another example. It simply says "When equipped creature attacks, destroy target permanent." That decision is made by whoever you stole that Equipment from, so beware! If it said "Equipped creature has 'Whenever this creature attacks, destroy target permanent'", then you would get to make that decision as it is an ability granted to the creature under your control. Since it is not an ability granted to that creature but rather a triggered ability on the card under the owner's control, they get to decide which permanent gets blown up. Ultimately I think this is a really fun and neat utility card that could cause some memorable "WTF?" moments. Just make sure you know what you're Equipping to him! Note, it is also a target for Recruiter of the Guard!
Usually the equipped creature will get +2/+2, although it has potential to get better given our ability to reanimate opponent's creatures from their graveyards. This isn't something we particularly care about since attacking and combat isn't something we specialize in. The second ability is alright and turns the equipped creature into a Grand Abolisher. If you're playing an Equipment focused package and run Stoneforge Mystic, this becomes better. However, Grand Abolisher being a creature is more valuable to us overall, can be found with Recruiter of the Guard and reanimated with Reveillark, and is generally a much better way to get this effect.
Artifact Creature | Included In: Breed Lethality | Rating: 0.5/5
Mana fixing in a two-color deck isn't too complicated. There are an ample amount of affordable dual lands of any type and great mana rocks. A 4 mana 1/1 that will come into play with two +1/+1 counters that could give you two mana back isn't anything special. When we reanimate it doesn't come with any of those +1/+1 counters, and counters aren't something we really specialize in. This little guy really isn't for us, and that's okay.
Artifact | Included In: Stalwart Unity | Rating: 0.5/5
What we have here is a 5-mana Artifact that at best could produce a combination of mana for us, but generally no more than two mana. There are much better options for a two color deck, and for 5 mana we could really run Gilded Lotus if we needed to - but we don't.
Decks by Reprints Useful to Ayli
Below are the reprints of note or potential worth to someone looking to build Ayli. The cards marked with an (*) are cards that I do not run or necessarily recommend, but may help in a deck looking for a starting point, and thus could use these cards.
The decks and cards this year are pretty neat, but most of the best cards are in colors outside of our own, or don't benefit us much as we don't play more than two colors. With that said, there are a couple of really great cards that I'll be trying to get my hands on, and those are Magus of the Will and Armory Automaton. Both have powerful effects that can swing the game and are worthy of being tested in Ayli. The best part about these is that both of them are in the "Invent Superiority" deck, meaning we can get the two best potentials for Ayli from one deck. If you're just starting to look at Ayli, there is the added benefit that the deck comes with Skullclamp, Sol Ring, Fellwar Stone, Command Tower, Exotic Orchard, Beacon of Unrest, and Soul of New Phyrexia, most of which are staples in the deck and some of which are good starts.
- Ayli often gets hit by my own T3/T4 sweepers. These sweepers and spot removal prove absolutely necessary, to keep up with the insanity my opponents put out very early. No sweepers = game over T4.
- Vish Kal is a better sac engine, a commander damage threat on his own, and an infinite combo piece
- The 2 lists are pretty comparable for the rest ( just 1 land extra in Vish Kal because of higher average CMC)
- Ayli often gets hit by my own T3/T4 sweepers. These sweepers and spot removal prove absolutely necessary, to keep up with the insanity my opponents put out very early. No sweepers = game over T4.
- Vish Kal is a better sac engine, a commander damage threat on his own, and an infinite combo piece
- The 2 lists are pretty comparable for the rest ( just 1 land extra in Vish Kal because of higher average CMC)
Good luck with the change! Our metagame may be different, but I find that myself that:
1. Turn 1 or 2 Ayli deters haymaker decks that attempt to kill with Commander damage on Turns 3-5, letting me save spot removal for combo piece permanents and other cards that are harder to deal with than creatures, which is one of the main reasons I play her. I often use sweepers early as well, but Ayli is a convenient and easy-to-cast sac outlet because of her low cost that is not near as hard for me to re-cast as Ghost Council of Orzhova before her, or Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter if it dies. Being that she can be reanimated with Reveillark, sometimes I just toss her in the graveyard.
2. Vish Kal is certainly a better sac outlet, but as a Commander more likely to be targeted with removal and way less convenient to be cast since the mana cost (especially after being killed) makes it very hard to do anything else on that turn. I prefer my Commanders to be more easily accessible. Having a cheap sac outlet that still costs nearly the same as Vish Kal even after dying 3 times has been pretty valuable for me to have. There are enough tutors that I can find Vish Kal if I really need to in order to combo and win. Ultimately, I find the 2/3 Deathtouch body on Ayli and low cost sac outlet to be too valuable in the first few turns and beyond and feel if I were to play Vish Kal as my Commander it'd be a "win more" choice. He's killed ASAP in my play group and so I never cast him unless I'm going to combo and if I'm going to have permanent access to a card to re-cast, I'd rather have something I can actually cast before I have 7 mana to do work the rest of the game instead of just the mid to late game and beyond.
3. They could be rather interchangeable since they both deal with the same sort of game mechanics. I would probably have to make room for protection for something that expensive as my Commander, though. I don't run Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots or Swords or anything of the sort because with a 2CC Commander that is easy to cast, but Iwould probably have to take some utility cards out to make room for them if I were going to make my Commander such a huge investment.
Anyway, everyone's experience is different but I've stuck with Ayli based on my experiences in a lot of varied metagames; everyone has to play to their own, though, so if you feel that's the better choice then more power to you!
Xenphire, I'm looking at my list, wondering what to cut for Magus of the Will testing. In your list, what were you thinking of cutting to test him, if at all?
I've put a lot of money into my list, b/c reading over your thoughts and comments has ignited the spark to do so.
I hope you are able to find a Recruiter of the Guard, b/c it's one of the cards I like to draw, as it can find so many things in my list.
I played a game last night, where yes I lost, but I was able to instant speed Necromancy, Tree of Perdition someone (he played Daxos...and didn't like that too much) and then kill two people after Sensei's Diving Top a high CMC card and them +1 Soren....felt good.
Thank you for all you do...I recently added a Marsh Flats and Verdant Catacombs. I think the things I learned most is too kill your darlings. I mean to say that, for example, I love Grave Titan. But, he doesn't really do what the deck wants to do. So, he was happy to know he went towards a Marsh Flats.
I'd like to chime in and also say thanks, Xenphire! Although VK now leads the deck instead of Ayli, I'll keep returning to this tread as prime reference.
I cut Ayli and Killing Tree, added ImperialRecruiter of the Guard and Blade of the Bloodchief. (infini-combo with VK)
Last weekend Daretti killed me with my own Necropotence when mindslavered. Somehow it felt cool, though :-).
Xenphire, I'm looking at my list, wondering what to cut for Magus of the Will testing. In your list, what were you thinking of cutting to test him, if at all?
I've put a lot of money into my list, b/c reading over your thoughts and comments has ignited the spark to do so.
I hope you are able to find a Recruiter of the Guard, b/c it's one of the cards I like to draw, as it can find so many things in my list.
I played a game last night, where yes I lost, but I was able to instant speed Necromancy, Tree of Perdition someone (he played Daxos...and didn't like that too much) and then kill two people after Sensei's Diving Top a high CMC card and them +1 Soren....felt good.
Thank you for all you do...I recently added a Marsh Flats and Verdant Catacombs. I think the things I learned most is too kill your darlings. I mean to say that, for example, I love Grave Titan. But, he doesn't really do what the deck wants to do. So, he was happy to know he went towards a Marsh Flats.
I love hearing your guys's stories about victories and losses and seeing combos and synergies being effective! I'm happy to hear you're finding inspiration, although I apologize for the effect the thread is having on your bank account
I agree on having to learn to cut pet cards at times. Taking out Magister of Worth after all of this time was pretty painful to do, because I love the promo foil and artwork and had it signed by rk post. But, it was also very frustrating having a card that wasn't all that effective or that just sat in my hand for a while. Eventually I learned to love testing new cards in the place of personal or pet cards sometimes, because I don't want the deck to become stagnate even though I've narrowed the list down to being pretty lean.
As for the question of what to replace to put in Magus of the Will? Generally I try to replace cards with other cards with similar CC. An argument could be made that Magus is a 6CC card because of his casting cost and being used for nothing other than his activated ability. I can go either way depending on the situation. Here's a few I've been considering for the cut and the reasons why:
Demon of Dark Schemes - In theory the Demon is pretty powerful, but I've ended up pretty underwhelmed by him. There's a lot of variables that decide whether he's good or not. How many creatures you can kill with his -2/-2, if there's even any good targets for him, etc. He's not terrible, but comparing the effects, another Yawgmoth's Will is probably better than a mini-boardwipe with situational reanimation attached.
Mangara of Corondor - More often than not, I find that Mangara gets removed before I get to tap her for her ability. She has a lot of potential with a Ashnod's Altar and Corpse Dance to give her Haste to exile a lot of permanents. But, I find there are usually a lot better answers in the deck. This may be what I actually take out when I get a Recruiter of the Guard, but we'll see what happens.
Panhormonicon - As I somewhat predicted, it plays more like a "Wins More" card that doesn't do much else, and I've been planning to cut it from the list. It's not bad, the deck just doesn't need it and I feel most of the time when I draw it that even though I could play it and get those triggers, that there's other things I'd rather be doing. I'm on the fence about this one.
Tree of Perdition - As you saw, Tree can win games or get you very close. It has great synergy in the early game with Ayli, but not with much else. One thing I look for in the deck is cards that have synergy with multiple other cards, that can come together in different ways so that we're not stuck with cards in our hands always waiting for another card to play them. Tree kind of falls into that category, but is also really good against decks like Selvala, Explorer Returned or others that gain a lot of life. In that regard, it's a nice tool in the kit to deal with those players. So, of the four here, this is the least likely for me to cut for Magus.
I'd like to chime in and also say thanks, Xenphire! Although VK now leads the deck instead of Ayli, I'll keep returning to this tread as prime reference.
I cut Ayli and Killing Tree, added ImperialRecruiter of the Guard and Blade of the Bloodchief. (infini-combo with VK)
Last weekend Daretti killed me with my own Necropotence when mindslavered. Somehow it felt cool, though :-).
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad this can be seen as a resource and font of information. I don't see Mindslaver hardly ever in my meta, but I dread what could happen to me if I did
I've been having an absolute BLAST with Ayli at the helm since jumping from ghost dad, and then teysa. It really is true that she can win in so many different ways. THE other night, I was one generic mana shy of pulling a win out of nowhere when already on he ropes.
On Mangara, it does just do nothing and then die sometimes but the utility of being ANY permanent removal and looping potential makes it too sweet to omit IMO.
Tree of perdition is so on point with the flavor and play style of Ayli and this deck that I don't think I could cut it either.
I've been having an absolute BLAST with Ayli at the helm since jumping from ghost dad, and then teysa. It really is true that she can win in so many different ways. THE other night, I was one generic mana shy of pulling a win out of nowhere when already on he ropes.
On Mangara, it does just do nothing and then die sometimes but the utility of being ANY permanent removal and looping potential makes it too sweet to omit IMO.
Tree of perdition is so on point with the flavor and play style of Ayli and this deck that I don't think I could cut it either.
So another question, what do you normally name when playing Cavern of Souls?
Also, what are your thoughts of Yahenni's Expertise? Could it have a place in our deck?
I look forward to every update you release.
Sorry for the rather slow turnarond on the reply, here. I've been on a small break from Magic being in the middle of the holidays and may have also got a bit tired of the playgroup at my regular store and decided to give it time to straighten itself out. I'll try to answer the questions provide some commentary, here:
Regarding Sleeves - I double sleeve Ayli. I'm foiling out the deck and the humidity here in Southeast Texas is so bad that it's basically a requirement to prevent bowing even in sleeves. I found out how quickly I need to get my stuff double sleeved the hard way when I ordered some cards for my Cube and found then bowing within a few hours of taking them out of the envelopes. I use KMC Hyper Matte sleeves and Ultra Pro Ultra Fits. Dragon Shield Mattes are my second favor but it can be pretty hard to get perfect fits to go into the sleeves right because they're so airtight. I do like the extra space at the top of Dragon Shields, though. I pretty much wouldn't ever use any Ultra Pro product except for the Pro Fits.
Page 1 Decklist - I have some updates I need to make to the post and I'll try to get around to making those in the next few days, including an updated primary list. I haven't gotten a chance to test out Magus of the Will, but my LGS does have a Recruiter of the Guard in, finally. I'm hoping it's still there come Friday so I can pick one up finally
On Keeping/Cutting Mangara of Corondor - She's a really amazing card when you can make her work for you. It's really, really tough to make cuts at this point to find room to test new cards as they come along. With how easy it is to remove any problem permanents in the deck thanks to a plethora of targeted permanent exiling or destruction, in combination with Yawgmoth's Will, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and Magus of the Will, the tutors, etc. it's really easy to find removal when we need it. Mangara is easily abused with Corpse Dance and Mimic Vat and a sac outlet since it gives her Haste. The main reason she's a candidate for being cut for testing other cards is because without a lot of ways to give her Haste, opponents tend to try to Exile or keep her off the board pretty fast. It's the same fear I have for Magus of the Abyss but if I had to choose one of the two I'd have to choose the Magus given the suite of other removal in the deck and a second Yawgmoth's Will effect being super powerful. She's not bad by any means, it's just a struggle to make cuts for testing and one of my criteria at this point is how often I want to play something or it sits in my hand compared to other cards, and she sits in my hand waiting for a good opportunity to abuse her quite often
On Cutting For Mimic Vat - One of the choices that pops out is Spawning Pit. It may be an Artifact that provides a low cost sac outlet with an activated ability costing nothing, but with Ayli being low mana compared to Ghost Council before her and provided the amount of other sac outlets in the deck, I think Spawning Pit could safely be cut to include Mimic Vat!
About Yahenni's Expertise - It's an amazing card with almost 30 potential targets to cast for free as long as they're in our graveyard. It let's us cast several tutors, targeted removal spells, reanimation spells, get back Ashnod's Altar and much more. My biggest issue is that it's a Sorcery and I'm not a fan of partial board wipes. That is to say, a spell that conditionally wipes the board or may not quite get there. -3/-3 is decent even if it's no Languish. I'm still on the fence about it. I could see cutting Utter End for it to keep within the same converted cost to avoid raising the average cost of spells in the deck. I wonder how many times I'll find myself wanting to cast something 3CC or less from my graveyard for free but being really inconvenienced by the attached -3/-3 to everything. It'll be interesting to test out, though
Hey Xen I don't know if you're working on the Original Post at the moment but there are many broken spoiler tags. Anyway, I'm a huge fan of this deck and your graphics are amazing. Keep up the good work! I'm inspired to rebuild my Ayli deck every time I read through this thread.
Hey Xen I don't know if you're working on the Original Post at the moment but there are many broken spoiler tags. Anyway, I'm a huge fan of this deck and your graphics are amazing. Keep up the good work! I'm inspired to rebuild my Ayli deck every time I read through this thread.
Thanks for the kind words I noticed something broke last time I was looking at it to reference the main list there. It's suge a huge post that I'll admit I'm having a problem finding which tag broke that broke the entire post I'll be trying to get if fixed up soon!
After mulling over the main post and fixing it with the spoiler tags currently broken, I've come to the conclusion that while the information is going to remain the same, I believe I'm going to do a massive overhaul of the formatting in the main post and addendum. Right now it's pretty perilous to edit and I'm constantly breaking something when I go to update it and having to go find where a tag went awry. All the same information and sections will be there when I'm done, but I intend to make it a bit cleaner, which should help with finally getting this juggernaut upgraded to Primer status. I'll brainstorm on the formatting over the weekend and see what I can do.
I wish you luck in fixing the main list. It'll be interesting to see what your deck looks like since the list was published.
For my sleeves I use perfect fits and apple green dragons shields. It took a lot to get them in lol.
I use Purple KMC Hyper Matte + Ultra Pro Perfect Fits, myself I may be switching over to the Dragon Shield Purple, though. They're darker and more reflective and feel more fitting of the deck and themes I use them on my Glissa, the Traitor and Marchesa, the Black Rose decks and love them. I really do like the extra space at the top even though they're harder to double sleeve with.
Thanks for this thread, I've wanted to put an Ayli deck together for a while and this primer looks great!
Hey there Fiveod! I'm glad you like the thread. Feel free to post any questions, your experiences playing the deck, etc. It's fun when everyone shares their games and thoughts about the card choices and deck, here
About Yahenni's Expertise - It's an amazing card with almost 30 potential targets to cast for free as long as they're in our graveyard. It let's us cast several tutors, targeted removal spells, reanimation spells, get back Ashnod's Altar and much more. My biggest issue is that it's a Sorcery and I'm not a fan of partial board wipes. That is to say, a spell that conditionally wipes the board or may not quite get there. -3/-3 is decent even if it's no Languish. I'm still on the fence about it. I could see cutting Utter End for it to keep within the same converted cost to avoid raising the average cost of spells in the deck. I wonder how many times I'll find myself wanting to cast something 3CC or less from my graveyard for free but being really inconvenienced by the attached -3/-3 to everything. It'll be interesting to test out, though
I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? I thought Yahenni's Expertise casts for free from hand, not graveyard?
About Yahenni's Expertise - It's an amazing card with almost 30 potential targets to cast for free as long as they're in our graveyard. It let's us cast several tutors, targeted removal spells, reanimation spells, get back Ashnod's Altar and much more. My biggest issue is that it's a Sorcery and I'm not a fan of partial board wipes. That is to say, a spell that conditionally wipes the board or may not quite get there. -3/-3 is decent even if it's no Languish. I'm still on the fence about it. I could see cutting Utter End for it to keep within the same converted cost to avoid raising the average cost of spells in the deck. I wonder how many times I'll find myself wanting to cast something 3CC or less from my graveyard for free but being really inconvenienced by the attached -3/-3 to everything. It'll be interesting to test out, though
I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? I thought Yahenni's Expertise casts for free from hand, not graveyard?
Nope, I simply misread the card, and now I'm very very sad I guess I was reading what I wanted it to be, instead I mean, it can cast Yawgmoth's Will for free from your hand! Close enough? I kid.
Having not read the card correctly definitely changes how I feel about it, but it's still okay if one is a fan of partial board wipes. It can clear the board and then cast Recruiter of the Guard for free, or some targeted removal to get rid of something that was too big for the -3/-3 to get rid of. Being able to follow up with a tutor, or Yawgmoth's Will like I mentioned above, is pretty sweet. I'm definitely not sure that I'd take anything out of my build for it given what the card actually reads, but Utter End is probably still the best card to replace.
Right now, I'm waiting on more of the Judge Imperial Seal to get into circulation to replace Utter End Hehe
Xenphire, did you find Recruiter of the Guard? How do you like it?
I like having this primer to refer to... it helps temper my excitement. I see a card and I think to myself shove it in...and then I come here and see you've thought about it and you present a valid reason why not. See: Yahenni's Expertise.
Hey. I really like your deck. What would you do to win if an opponent's commander was a gravehate commander such as anafenza, or playing cards like rest in peace? The kokusho/vizkopa combo would certainly work eventually, but how would these cards change your overall gameplan? I don't really play graveyard decks (my main deck is Mayael the Anima lol), so I'm curious. I feel like I'd get too annoyed with most of the cards / combos being dead.
Hey everyone! Happy Holidays! The main post re-construction is still underway in a test thread elsewhere. I finally picked up the Breya precon for Magus of the Will(and goodies for other decks, too), but most importantly I finally got ahold of a Recruiter of the Guard! Can't wait to play some games with it soon!
Xenphire, did you find Recruiter of the Guard? How do you like it?
I like having this primer to refer to... it helps temper my excitement. I see a card and I think to myself shove it in...and then I come here and see you've thought about it and you present a valid reason why not. See: Yahenni's Expertise.
I got one, as mentioned above! I have yet to get to play it but I can't wait!
I'm glad you appreciate and enjoy that I deconstruct new cards and go over potentials. I realize I deem many a pass on inclusion in my list and I fear that it may put people off sometimes who think they found something that seems great on the surface. I've been tuning the deck for years now so it's only every so often that something comes along that can really replace the cards in my main list, but that's why I'm about to start seriously testing budget builds and variations
Hey. I really like your deck. What would you do to win if an opponent's commander was a gravehate commander such as anafenza, or playing cards like rest in peace? The kokusho/vizkopa combo would certainly work eventually, but how would these cards change your overall gameplan? I don't really play graveyard decks (my main deck is Mayael the Anima lol), so I'm curious. I feel like I'd get too annoyed with most of the cards / combos being dead.
Thanks for the kind words!
There's a few different ways to look at graveyard hate and how to handle it. Regardless of if graveyard combos are delayed, there are several ways to search out answers to deal with something so problematic. Here are a few points in no particular order worth considering:
-Utility lands are one of our most important resources and we have several ways to get them. If you're anticipating targeted graveyard hate, find Volrath's Stronghold ASAP. It can help save something in your graveyard when Rest in Peace comes down.
-This deck is in the colors that are the best for removal. Anguished Unmaking, Utter End, and Vindicate can target anything from Anafenza, the Foremost to Leyline of the Void or Rest in Peace. Between spot removal, tutors and effects that get around Hexproof such as Fleshbag Marauder and many sweepers, it shouldn't be hard to keep permanent-based graveyard hate off of the board.
-Build to your meta. Cards such as Sadistic Sacrament can find a particular player's graveyard hate pieces (or combo pieces, for that matter) and exile them before they ever come down. Praetor's Grasp and Gonti, Lord of Luxury can also help with this.
-Hold your beaters til you play your sweepers. With all the removal, tutors and card advantage in the deck, it's easy to find some winning beaters. Play Damnation and follow it up with Sorin, Grim Nemesis or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Sheoldred, Whispering One is backbreaking when you play her after a board wipe because unless opponents play multiple creatures or deal with her immediately with their own removal, they will struggle to keep creatures on the board.
-Play an Eldrazi titan such as Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth as protection against both graveyard hate and mill strategies. With Entomb in hand, you can find Ulamog or Kozilek and throw them in your graveyard, putting their trigger on the stack and allowing you to shuffle everything back in if someone tries to remove everything there.
-Leyline of Sanctity prevents some hate. It can help protect you from Bojuka Bog in addition to some other effects, but does not protect against the triggered ability of Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus's second activated ability.
-Use your opponent's graveyards instead. If they exile everyone's graveyard it makes it that much easier to flip Nezumi Graverobber. Demon of Dark Schemes, Puppeteer Clique and some others can use their graveyards against them.
Ultimately, graveyard hate is an annoyance but usually pretty easy to overcome because of the amount of removal and tutoring in the deck. It makes the game last a bit longer and requires further planning than normal, but isn't quite as devastating to the deck as it is for a lot of other graveyard based decks The new game plan is the old game plan: Find removal to answer threats and play a game of attrition. They think they'll be safe if they neuter the graveyard, but Ayli will always have an answer.
I'm glad you picked up Breya. She's my next project. Ayli is my first deck and always will be. She's got a lot of money in her. Even her deck box is a Wyrmwood gaming deck box lol.
In my meta, at least, she's had an impact in that people are aware of the deck and it's presence at the table. Merciless Eviction does work.
I hope the redesign goes well. I'm excited to see it.
What are you finally cutting to test Magus of the Will?
What did you cut for Recruiter of the Guard?
You mentioned you found goodies for other decks. Do you have any others you can share? I like the way you build decks and would like to see, or at least know, the other commanders.
I'm glad you picked up Breya. She's my next project. Ayli is my first deck and always will be. She's got a lot of money in her. Even her deck box is a Wyrmwood gaming deck box lol.
In my meta, at least, she's had an impact in that people are aware of the deck and it's presence at the table. Merciless Eviction does work.
I hope the redesign goes well. I'm excited to see it.
It's still in progress but coming along. I threw a bunch of good stuff in Breya that has just built up sitting around. Finally have a place for the Saheeli Rai and Daretti, Ingenius Iconoclast in my binder and the Platinum Emperion I got off eBay when I saw a buyout starting to happen Merciless Eviction does indeed do work and I'm really glad one of my best friends sent me a foil a long time ago. It's quite stunning!
What are you finally cutting to test Magus of the Will?
What did you cut for Recruiter of the Guard?
You mentioned you found goodies for other decks. Do you have any others you can share? I like the way you build decks and would like to see, or at least know, the other commanders.
Have a happy holiday.
I haven't gotten a chance to test the change yet, however:
I really love Demon of Dark Schemes, but creating an ideal situation to get the most out of him was harder than I thought it would be. Energy generation seemed like it should have been plentiful, but in the land of giants that is EDH, he often didn't hit as much I would have liked. When it came time to be able to use him in a combo or some meaningful synergy, I was already in a position to close the game down with the Yosei, the Morning Star lock or the Reveillark/Karmic Guide loop. If Magus can be dropped or reanimated in when opponents aren't in a position to answer him, he can lead to a full board wipe rather than a temporary -2/-2, and more easily close a game.
My list was at 37 Lands in total, but because this is a slow burn strategy that waits to jump on it's victims presented the opportunity, I decided to cut a land and go to 36 since adding Recruiter of the Guard isn't raising the overall curve of the deck and it can tutor out answers so easily (including Weathered Wayfarer to help find lands, himself).
Thank you for the holiday well wishes! I hope everyone had a good one, themselves
In Other News
Paradox Engine is a thing, and it sadly doesn't do much for us. Most of our deck doesn't really tap except for mana rocks, and it's likely not worth including for the sake of those. As much as I want to abuse this card somewhere (maybe in Brago, King Eternal), it does disappointingly little for us. The other new Artifact form Aether Revolt is Planar Bridge, but another card that doesn't really fit well with our game plan due to how slow it is. We play a slow game, but we make effective gains both seen and unseen by other players. By the time we're generating the mana to cast it and then use it, we could very well be in a position to win already and will likely want to spend mana on other things. It just doesn't really do anything until we've already made it all the way.
Complete Commander 2016 Set Review
Because this is a deck that doesn't want to attack to win, it doesn't benefit us much. The trick to Duelist's Heritage is using politics to your advantage and granting an opponent's creature Double Strike. This necessitates us taking a more active role in the politics of the game than we like, as we're more adept at sitting in the background making long term plans. For this to be of value to us require very specific circumstances, making it not all too desirable.
Removal is always a good thing. However, in our colors there is far better and less situational removal than removal that requires your target to be attacking. This is another card that can be used to play up politics like Duelist's Heritage above. It may also be tempting if you're running a tokens package because of the possibility of creating a lot of tokens. The downsides are significant, though. It requires a creature to be attacking which is enough to cause many powerful creatures to trigger their abilities. While it gets around Indestructible by causing your opponent to sacrifice a creature, if there's more than one creature attacking then it gives your opponent the choice of what they will sacrifice, meaning they can minimize the effect of this card (and by proxy, minimize your gains). With Utter End, Anguished Unmaking, Vindicate and so many more great removal spells at our disposal, this one falls short.
An interesting creature that makes opponents think twice about wanting to finish you off. We have plenty of removal in the deck to deal with any threats that Orzhov Advokist may empower. Obviously it's worse against Commanders such as Marchesa, the Black Rose or Ezuri, Claw of Progress considering how much they could get from those counters. If you find yourself being targeted a lot, it may be worth your consideration to stem the tide of attacks coming your way. Generally speaking, we should have enough removal and answers that this isn't really necessary, which is why I'm giving it a 2.5/5. It's not the worst card in Commander 2016 as it can serve some purpose. But the truth is that it shouldn't be necessary to play Orzhov Advokist, at all.
It's a very cute combat trick, but a costly one at four mana that sits on the field doing a lot of nothing afterwards. We don't really run spells or creatures that prevent damage because it's not really necessary with all the answers we have access to. If you're running a Stax package, the Squire could be okay at best. Without having evasion of any kind, he can be chump blocked all day long and is easily removed. The reason I've rated him at 2.5, though, is that it can be repeatedly abused with Corpse Dance and Mimic Vat in order to respond to threatening amounts of damage. For that reason it does hold some value.
This will probably be a $1.00 card and thus another nice budget option for board wipes. For those not worrying about budget, Wrath of God is still better and worth the extra mana to prevent creatures from regenerating and doesn't get worse as the game progresses (eg. less opponents to make it cost less). It's a Day of Judgment with 3 opponents, then becomes worse as it becomes a 5 or 6 mana Day of Judgment after an opponent or two has been eliminated.
An interesting and fun looking card that doesn't exile itself (meaning you can bring it back to play later with Xiahou-Dun, the One-Eyed or re-cast it with Yawgmoth's Will). It's a cute effect, but has a lot of potential to come back to haunt us when those turns come around. Nothing is preventing those players from targeting you despite controlling the other player's turn. Personally, I plan for and anticipate my opponents behaving certain ways, and it can throw that all out the window. It doesn't particular further our game plan, but is a fun chaos card if someone feels inclined to play it.
This card has a lot of requirements to make it worthwhile. The enchanted player has to be playing a lot of spells, and there are a lot of variables in the game that could make them play more or less, so there's an inherent inconsistency. EDH/Commander games swing back and forth a lot, meaning that player could be the first out and net you a few cards and some life, or the very last player at which point when they die you win the game, anyway. It could very well end up being removed before anything comes of it and is a good way to make that player want to focus you down until the game is over or they're eliminated. Ultimately it becomes a hard question of when and who to cast it on, and given how inherently inconsistent the card must be, I have to advise against bothering with this card in Ayli.
Instant removal is always nice. With three opponents present, you can destroy two target creatures for
As of now, this is only the second time ever this ability has been printed on a card verbatim. The down side of Magus of the Will is it generally having to survive a turn before you can activate it's ability. However, where many see it being on a creature as a fragility, to us it is actually a boon. First, Yawgmoth's Will is a Sorcery. You can activate Magus of the Will on an opponent's turn, making it an Instant-speed Yawgmoth's Will. Second, you can Imprint it on cards like Mimic Vat and Soul Foundry. If he's targeted with spot removal that exiles, we can sacrifice him in response to store him in our graveyard. The biggest downside is the unwanted attention playing him will draw to you. It telegraphs our plans... but can also be used as a red herring to draw out hate in advance of ulterior motives. Because of the risk playing him poses, I've rated him as a 4.5/5, knowing well that redundancy on game breaking effects is in no way a bad thing.
I'm not a fan of Sorcery-speed spot removal that only targets creatures. It's very narrow, meaning it sits in your hand when you draw it for quite a while. Vindicate at least targets a permanent. For the same cost, this targets a single creature, and only benefits you if it has counters on it. This could be a huge deal if you're playing against a deck like Ezuri, Claw of Progress, but most of the time will be worse than Doom Blade.
The +1/+1 to our creatures isn't too relevant, unless you're playing a combat oriented Tokens build (personally as tokens I would still be focused more on combo than combat). His second ability is the more interesting part since he can help bring back creatures to cast later. He does suffer the same problem that Athreos, God of Passage does, though: We want to be reanimating from our graveyard, not re-casting. He can fill a niche that Volrath's Stronghold normally does in this deck but not nearly as well as the Stronghold since you can respond to graveyard hate it.
This is a creature that really wants us to push into territory we don't normally want to go to. She only triggers on your turn at your 2nd Main Phase, which means you had to be the one dealing combat damage to your opponents for her trigger. With the primary build we aren't very combat based, but if you're running a Tokens build this may be a bit more valuable to you. Assuming you're in a pod of 4 players including yourself, you have the max potential of paying 3 life to draw 3 per turn if you attacked each opponent. Then, as you can guess, she gets worse with each opponent less you have left to attack. A tokens package will more easily fly over this or get around blockers with cards like Behind the Scenes, but she is really the antithesis of how this deck plays.
This is a fun little toolkit card that has some potential to swing the game. Equipment is an important part of many player's decks that they depend on and includes protection for their Commander such as Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Darksteel Armor, Argentum Armor and so on. Much of the time players utilize Equipment as a way to protect their creatures, whether by using some of the aforementioned Equipment cards to give a creature Shroud, Hexproof or Haste, or maybe even the infamous Swords such as Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of War and Peace to give them protection from colors in addition to powerful effects. This opens those creatures to removal and makes them vulnerable until the Equipment's controller's next turn wherein they'll have to spend mana to equip those cards to another one of their creatures. If they have no creatures left, however, they wouldn't have any creatures to attach those Equipment cards to, however. Keep in mind that it's not as simple as attaching Equipment to the Automaton and attacking, though! The owner still controls the Equipment, so any trigger that says "You" refers to the opponent. For example, if you attacked while Sword of War and Peace were equipped, the part of the triggered ability that reads "You gain 1 life for each card in your hand" would benefit your opponent. So while you deal damage to the player you're attacking with the first part of the trigger, the person who controls the Equipment would be the one gaining the life.
The same applies to Argentum Armor, as another example. It simply says "When equipped creature attacks, destroy target permanent." That decision is made by whoever you stole that Equipment from, so beware! If it said "Equipped creature has 'Whenever this creature attacks, destroy target permanent'", then you would get to make that decision as it is an ability granted to the creature under your control. Since it is not an ability granted to that creature but rather a triggered ability on the card under the owner's control, they get to decide which permanent gets blown up. Ultimately I think this is a really fun and neat utility card that could cause some memorable "WTF?" moments. Just make sure you know what you're Equipping to him! Note, it is also a target for Recruiter of the Guard!
This is cute and all, but Ayli isn't a chaos deck, and we have plenty of mass removal that we know will work that doesn't require a coin flip.
Usually the equipped creature will get +2/+2, although it has potential to get better given our ability to reanimate opponent's creatures from their graveyards. This isn't something we particularly care about since attacking and combat isn't something we specialize in. The second ability is alright and turns the equipped creature into a Grand Abolisher. If you're playing an Equipment focused package and run Stoneforge Mystic, this becomes better. However, Grand Abolisher being a creature is more valuable to us overall, can be found with Recruiter of the Guard and reanimated with Reveillark, and is generally a much better way to get this effect.
Mana fixing in a two-color deck isn't too complicated. There are an ample amount of affordable dual lands of any type and great mana rocks. A 4 mana 1/1 that will come into play with two +1/+1 counters that could give you two mana back isn't anything special. When we reanimate it doesn't come with any of those +1/+1 counters, and counters aren't something we really specialize in. This little guy really isn't for us, and that's okay.
What we have here is a 5-mana Artifact that at best could produce a combination of
Decks by Reprints Useful to Ayli
Below are the reprints of note or potential worth to someone looking to build Ayli. The cards marked with an (*) are cards that I do not run or necessarily recommend, but may help in a deck looking for a starting point, and thus could use these cards.
Entropic Uprising - In Garruk's Wake*, Sol Ring, Fellwar Stone, Chromatic Lantern*, Command Tower Exotic Orchard*, Reliquary Tower
Open Hostility - Utter End, Sol Ring, Skullclamp, Fellwar Stone, Commander's Sphere*, Blind Obedience*, Caves of Koilos, Command Tower, Exotic Orchard*, Grand Coliseum*, Orzhov Basilica*, Windbrisk Heights*
Stalwart Unity - Windborn Muse*, Blazing Archon*, Reverse the Sands*, Swords to Plowshares, Oblation*, Sol Ring, Commander's Sphere*, Venser's Journal*, Ghostly Prison*, Command Tower, Exotic Orchard*, Homeward Path, Opal Palace*
Breed Lethality - Necroplasm*, Bane of the Living*, Reveillark, Languish*, Merciless Eviction, Mortify*, Sol Ring, Fellwar Stone, Orzhov Signet, Commander's Sphere*, Darksteel Ingot*, Cauldron of Souls*, Command Tower, Exotic Orchard*, Opal Palace*
Invent Superiority - Myr Retriever*, Solemn Simulacrum, Sanctum Gargoyle*, Soul of New Phyrexia, Myr Battlesphere*, Beacon of Unrest, Skullclamp, Sol Ring, Fellwar Stone, Swiftfoot Boots*, Commander's Sphere*, Nevinyrral's Disk*, Trading Post*, Command Tower, Exotic Orchard
Commander 2016: Final Thoughts & Conclusion
The decks and cards this year are pretty neat, but most of the best cards are in colors outside of our own, or don't benefit us much as we don't play more than two colors. With that said, there are a couple of really great cards that I'll be trying to get my hands on, and those are Magus of the Will and Armory Automaton. Both have powerful effects that can swing the game and are worthy of being tested in Ayli. The best part about these is that both of them are in the "Invent Superiority" deck, meaning we can get the two best potentials for Ayli from one deck. If you're just starting to look at Ayli, there is the added benefit that the deck comes with Skullclamp, Sol Ring, Fellwar Stone, Command Tower, Exotic Orchard, Beacon of Unrest, and Soul of New Phyrexia, most of which are staples in the deck and some of which are good starts.
(Also known as Xenphire)
- Ayli often gets hit by my own T3/T4 sweepers. These sweepers and spot removal prove absolutely necessary, to keep up with the insanity my opponents put out very early. No sweepers = game over T4.
- Vish Kal is a better sac engine, a commander damage threat on his own, and an infinite combo piece
- The 2 lists are pretty comparable for the rest ( just 1 land extra in Vish Kal because of higher average CMC)
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Good luck with the change! Our metagame may be different, but I find that myself that:
1. Turn 1 or 2 Ayli deters haymaker decks that attempt to kill with Commander damage on Turns 3-5, letting me save spot removal for combo piece permanents and other cards that are harder to deal with than creatures, which is one of the main reasons I play her. I often use sweepers early as well, but Ayli is a convenient and easy-to-cast sac outlet because of her low cost that is not near as hard for me to re-cast as Ghost Council of Orzhova before her, or Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter if it dies. Being that she can be reanimated with Reveillark, sometimes I just toss her in the graveyard.
2. Vish Kal is certainly a better sac outlet, but as a Commander more likely to be targeted with removal and way less convenient to be cast since the mana cost (especially after being killed) makes it very hard to do anything else on that turn. I prefer my Commanders to be more easily accessible. Having a cheap sac outlet that still costs nearly the same as Vish Kal even after dying 3 times has been pretty valuable for me to have. There are enough tutors that I can find Vish Kal if I really need to in order to combo and win. Ultimately, I find the 2/3 Deathtouch body on Ayli and low cost sac outlet to be too valuable in the first few turns and beyond and feel if I were to play Vish Kal as my Commander it'd be a "win more" choice. He's killed ASAP in my play group and so I never cast him unless I'm going to combo and if I'm going to have permanent access to a card to re-cast, I'd rather have something I can actually cast before I have 7 mana to do work the rest of the game instead of just the mid to late game and beyond.
3. They could be rather interchangeable since they both deal with the same sort of game mechanics. I would probably have to make room for protection for something that expensive as my Commander, though. I don't run Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots or Swords or anything of the sort because with a 2CC Commander that is easy to cast, but Iwould probably have to take some utility cards out to make room for them if I were going to make my Commander such a huge investment.
Anyway, everyone's experience is different but I've stuck with Ayli based on my experiences in a lot of varied metagames; everyone has to play to their own, though, so if you feel that's the better choice then more power to you!
(Also known as Xenphire)
I've put a lot of money into my list, b/c reading over your thoughts and comments has ignited the spark to do so.
I hope you are able to find a Recruiter of the Guard, b/c it's one of the cards I like to draw, as it can find so many things in my list.
I played a game last night, where yes I lost, but I was able to instant speed Necromancy, Tree of Perdition someone (he played Daxos...and didn't like that too much) and then kill two people after Sensei's Diving Top a high CMC card and them +1 Soren....felt good.
Thank you for all you do...I recently added a Marsh Flats and Verdant Catacombs. I think the things I learned most is too kill your darlings. I mean to say that, for example, I love Grave Titan. But, he doesn't really do what the deck wants to do. So, he was happy to know he went towards a Marsh Flats.
I cut Ayli and Killing Tree, added
ImperialRecruiter of the Guard and Blade of the Bloodchief. (infini-combo with VK)Last weekend Daretti killed me with my own Necropotence when mindslavered. Somehow it felt cool, though :-).
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
I love hearing your guys's stories about victories and losses and seeing combos and synergies being effective!
I agree on having to learn to cut pet cards at times. Taking out Magister of Worth after all of this time was pretty painful to do, because I love the promo foil and artwork and had it signed by rk post. But, it was also very frustrating having a card that wasn't all that effective or that just sat in my hand for a while. Eventually I learned to love testing new cards in the place of personal or pet cards sometimes, because I don't want the deck to become stagnate even though I've narrowed the list down to being pretty lean.
As for the question of what to replace to put in Magus of the Will? Generally I try to replace cards with other cards with similar CC. An argument could be made that Magus is a 6CC card because of his casting cost and being used for nothing other than his activated ability. I can go either way depending on the situation. Here's a few I've been considering for the cut and the reasons why:
Demon of Dark Schemes - In theory the Demon is pretty powerful, but I've ended up pretty underwhelmed by him. There's a lot of variables that decide whether he's good or not. How many creatures you can kill with his -2/-2, if there's even any good targets for him, etc. He's not terrible, but comparing the effects, another Yawgmoth's Will is probably better than a mini-boardwipe with situational reanimation attached.
Mangara of Corondor - More often than not, I find that Mangara gets removed before I get to tap her for her ability. She has a lot of potential with a Ashnod's Altar and Corpse Dance to give her Haste to exile a lot of permanents. But, I find there are usually a lot better answers in the deck. This may be what I actually take out when I get a Recruiter of the Guard, but we'll see what happens.
Panhormonicon - As I somewhat predicted, it plays more like a "Wins More" card that doesn't do much else, and I've been planning to cut it from the list. It's not bad, the deck just doesn't need it and I feel most of the time when I draw it that even though I could play it and get those triggers, that there's other things I'd rather be doing. I'm on the fence about this one.
Tree of Perdition - As you saw, Tree can win games or get you very close. It has great synergy in the early game with Ayli, but not with much else. One thing I look for in the deck is cards that have synergy with multiple other cards, that can come together in different ways so that we're not stuck with cards in our hands always waiting for another card to play them. Tree kind of falls into that category, but is also really good against decks like Selvala, Explorer Returned or others that gain a lot of life. In that regard, it's a nice tool in the kit to deal with those players. So, of the four here, this is the least likely for me to cut for Magus.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad this can be seen as a resource and font of information. I don't see Mindslaver hardly ever in my meta, but I dread what could happen to me if I did
(Also known as Xenphire)
I wish I could give you a Recruiter...I love it so.
Another question, what is your Ayli deck sleeved with? Is she double sleeved?
Also, do you update the decklist on page one? I would like to see where it stands now.
One more favor? Is there any dead weight here:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ayli-commander-life-of-attrition/
I've tried to incorporate all of your suggestions, but my eyes are crossed cutting things lol.
On Mangara, it does just do nothing and then die sometimes but the utility of being ANY permanent removal and looping potential makes it too sweet to omit IMO.
Tree of perdition is so on point with the flavor and play style of Ayli and this deck that I don't think I could cut it either.
I hope you have a good Thanksgiving.
Also, what are your thoughts of Yahenni's Expertise? Could it have a place in our deck?
I look forward to every update you release.
Sorry for the rather slow turnarond on the reply, here. I've been on a small break from Magic being in the middle of the holidays and may have also got a bit tired of the playgroup at my regular store and decided to give it time to straighten itself out. I'll try to answer the questions provide some commentary, here:
Regarding Sleeves - I double sleeve Ayli. I'm foiling out the deck and the humidity here in Southeast Texas is so bad that it's basically a requirement to prevent bowing even in sleeves. I found out how quickly I need to get my stuff double sleeved the hard way when I ordered some cards for my Cube and found then bowing within a few hours of taking them out of the envelopes. I use KMC Hyper Matte sleeves and Ultra Pro Ultra Fits. Dragon Shield Mattes are my second favor but it can be pretty hard to get perfect fits to go into the sleeves right because they're so airtight. I do like the extra space at the top of Dragon Shields, though. I pretty much wouldn't ever use any Ultra Pro product except for the Pro Fits.
Page 1 Decklist - I have some updates I need to make to the post and I'll try to get around to making those in the next few days, including an updated primary list. I haven't gotten a chance to test out Magus of the Will, but my LGS does have a Recruiter of the Guard in, finally. I'm hoping it's still there come Friday so I can pick one up finally
On Keeping/Cutting Mangara of Corondor - She's a really amazing card when you can make her work for you. It's really, really tough to make cuts at this point to find room to test new cards as they come along. With how easy it is to remove any problem permanents in the deck thanks to a plethora of targeted permanent exiling or destruction, in combination with Yawgmoth's Will, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and Magus of the Will, the tutors, etc. it's really easy to find removal when we need it. Mangara is easily abused with Corpse Dance and Mimic Vat and a sac outlet since it gives her Haste. The main reason she's a candidate for being cut for testing other cards is because without a lot of ways to give her Haste, opponents tend to try to Exile or keep her off the board pretty fast. It's the same fear I have for Magus of the Abyss but if I had to choose one of the two I'd have to choose the Magus given the suite of other removal in the deck and a second Yawgmoth's Will effect being super powerful. She's not bad by any means, it's just a struggle to make cuts for testing and one of my criteria at this point is how often I want to play something or it sits in my hand compared to other cards, and she sits in my hand waiting for a good opportunity to abuse her quite often
On Cutting For Mimic Vat - One of the choices that pops out is Spawning Pit. It may be an Artifact that provides a low cost sac outlet with an activated ability costing nothing, but with Ayli being low mana compared to Ghost Council before her and provided the amount of other sac outlets in the deck, I think Spawning Pit could safely be cut to include Mimic Vat!
Regarding Cavern of Souls - The safest bet is usually Human. Many of our biggest and more important combo pieces are Human creatures and naming them gives coverage to False Prophet, Fiend Hunter, Magus of the Will, Mangara of Corondor, Recruiter of the Guard, Viscera Seer, Vizkopa Guildmage, Weathered Wayfarer and Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. In a tokens build naming Humans usually provides even more coverage. Naming Spirit covers Karmic Guide, Kokusho, the Evening Star. Of course, playing it by ear and the context of the given game is important, too. Naming Demon might lets you tutor with Rune-scarred Demon if you're missing your Boseiju, Who Shelters All and can't get your Instant/Sorcery tutors past a Control wall. Similarly, Spirit may be better if you can achieve a lock with Yosei, the Morning Star or have it in your hand because he's a big target.
About Yahenni's Expertise - It's an amazing card with almost 30 potential targets to cast for free as long as they're in our graveyard. It let's us cast several tutors, targeted removal spells, reanimation spells, get back Ashnod's Altar and much more. My biggest issue is that it's a Sorcery and I'm not a fan of partial board wipes. That is to say, a spell that conditionally wipes the board or may not quite get there. -3/-3 is decent even if it's no Languish. I'm still on the fence about it. I could see cutting Utter End for it to keep within the same converted cost to avoid raising the average cost of spells in the deck. I wonder how many times I'll find myself wanting to cast something 3CC or less from my graveyard for free but being really inconvenienced by the attached -3/-3 to everything. It'll be interesting to test out, though
I misread the card D: Re-evaluated it below.
(Also known as Xenphire)
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I hope you'll get the Recruiter of the Guard. I love it in my deck.
Thanks for the kind words
Always glad to help!
(Also known as Xenphire)
For my sleeves I use perfect fits and apple green dragons shields. It took a lot to get them in lol.
I use Purple KMC Hyper Matte + Ultra Pro Perfect Fits, myself
Hey there Fiveod! I'm glad you like the thread. Feel free to post any questions, your experiences playing the deck, etc. It's fun when everyone shares their games and thoughts about the card choices and deck, here
(Also known as Xenphire)
I'm also pretty excited for the revamp of the front page. Making beautiful primers really geeks me out and I always enjoy one thats well put together.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? I thought Yahenni's Expertise casts for free from hand, not graveyard?
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Nope, I simply misread the card, and now I'm very very sad
Having not read the card correctly definitely changes how I feel about it, but it's still okay if one is a fan of partial board wipes. It can clear the board and then cast Recruiter of the Guard for free, or some targeted removal to get rid of something that was too big for the -3/-3 to get rid of. Being able to follow up with a tutor, or Yawgmoth's Will like I mentioned above, is pretty sweet. I'm definitely not sure that I'd take anything out of my build for it given what the card actually reads, but Utter End is probably still the best card to replace.
Right now, I'm waiting on more of the Judge Imperial Seal to get into circulation to replace Utter End
(Also known as Xenphire)
I like having this primer to refer to... it helps temper my excitement. I see a card and I think to myself shove it in...and then I come here and see you've thought about it and you present a valid reason why not. See: Yahenni's Expertise.
I got one, as mentioned above! I have yet to get to play it but I can't wait!
I'm glad you appreciate and enjoy that I deconstruct new cards and go over potentials. I realize I deem many a pass on inclusion in my list and I fear that it may put people off sometimes who think they found something that seems great on the surface. I've been tuning the deck for years now so it's only every so often that something comes along that can really replace the cards in my main list, but that's why I'm about to start seriously testing budget builds and variations
Thanks for the kind words!
There's a few different ways to look at graveyard hate and how to handle it. Regardless of if graveyard combos are delayed, there are several ways to search out answers to deal with something so problematic. Here are a few points in no particular order worth considering:
-Utility lands are one of our most important resources and we have several ways to get them. If you're anticipating targeted graveyard hate, find Volrath's Stronghold ASAP. It can help save something in your graveyard when Rest in Peace comes down.
-This deck is in the colors that are the best for removal. Anguished Unmaking, Utter End, and Vindicate can target anything from Anafenza, the Foremost to Leyline of the Void or Rest in Peace. Between spot removal, tutors and effects that get around Hexproof such as Fleshbag Marauder and many sweepers, it shouldn't be hard to keep permanent-based graveyard hate off of the board.
-Build to your meta. Cards such as Sadistic Sacrament can find a particular player's graveyard hate pieces (or combo pieces, for that matter) and exile them before they ever come down. Praetor's Grasp and Gonti, Lord of Luxury can also help with this.
-Hold your beaters til you play your sweepers. With all the removal, tutors and card advantage in the deck, it's easy to find some winning beaters. Play Damnation and follow it up with Sorin, Grim Nemesis or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Sheoldred, Whispering One is backbreaking when you play her after a board wipe because unless opponents play multiple creatures or deal with her immediately with their own removal, they will struggle to keep creatures on the board.
-Play an Eldrazi titan such as Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth as protection against both graveyard hate and mill strategies. With Entomb in hand, you can find Ulamog or Kozilek and throw them in your graveyard, putting their trigger on the stack and allowing you to shuffle everything back in if someone tries to remove everything there.
-Leyline of Sanctity prevents some hate. It can help protect you from Bojuka Bog in addition to some other effects, but does not protect against the triggered ability of Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus's second activated ability.
-Use your opponent's graveyards instead. If they exile everyone's graveyard it makes it that much easier to flip Nezumi Graverobber. Demon of Dark Schemes, Puppeteer Clique and some others can use their graveyards against them.
Ultimately, graveyard hate is an annoyance but usually pretty easy to overcome because of the amount of removal and tutoring in the deck. It makes the game last a bit longer and requires further planning than normal, but isn't quite as devastating to the deck as it is for a lot of other graveyard based decks
(Also known as Xenphire)
In my meta, at least, she's had an impact in that people are aware of the deck and it's presence at the table. Merciless Eviction does work.
I hope the redesign goes well. I'm excited to see it.
What are you finally cutting to test Magus of the Will?
What did you cut for Recruiter of the Guard?
You mentioned you found goodies for other decks. Do you have any others you can share? I like the way you build decks and would like to see, or at least know, the other commanders.
Have a happy holiday.
It's still in progress but coming along. I threw a bunch of good stuff in Breya that has just built up sitting around. Finally have a place for the Saheeli Rai and Daretti, Ingenius Iconoclast in my binder and the Platinum Emperion I got off eBay when I saw a buyout starting to happen
I haven't gotten a chance to test the change yet, however:
-Demon of Dark Schemes
-Swamp
+Magus of the Will
+Recruiter of the Guard
I really love Demon of Dark Schemes, but creating an ideal situation to get the most out of him was harder than I thought it would be. Energy generation seemed like it should have been plentiful, but in the land of giants that is EDH, he often didn't hit as much I would have liked. When it came time to be able to use him in a combo or some meaningful synergy, I was already in a position to close the game down with the Yosei, the Morning Star lock or the Reveillark/Karmic Guide loop. If Magus can be dropped or reanimated in when opponents aren't in a position to answer him, he can lead to a full board wipe rather than a temporary -2/-2, and more easily close a game.
My list was at 37 Lands in total, but because this is a slow burn strategy that waits to jump on it's victims presented the opportunity, I decided to cut a land and go to 36 since adding Recruiter of the Guard isn't raising the overall curve of the deck and it can tutor out answers so easily (including Weathered Wayfarer to help find lands, himself).
Thank you for the holiday well wishes! I hope everyone had a good one, themselves
In Other News
Paradox Engine is a thing, and it sadly doesn't do much for us. Most of our deck doesn't really tap except for mana rocks, and it's likely not worth including for the sake of those. As much as I want to abuse this card somewhere (maybe in Brago, King Eternal), it does disappointingly little for us. The other new Artifact form Aether Revolt is Planar Bridge, but another card that doesn't really fit well with our game plan due to how slow it is. We play a slow game, but we make effective gains both seen and unseen by other players. By the time we're generating the mana to cast it and then use it, we could very well be in a position to win already and will likely want to spend mana on other things. It just doesn't really do anything until we've already made it all the way.
(Also known as Xenphire)