Nice additions to make the deck faster, I will hold off on these additions because I personally like the slow grind and board control aspect of this deck (also the reason why I chose Meren over Jarad).
Will you be running Slum Reaper? Less efficient but I believe it can be for even more redundancy.
Understandable! I enjoy it alot myself, and it saddens me alot to remove those pieces. I just never really needed them once I included more ways to deal with tokens. I'll get to test it out again tomorrow evening, so we'll see what works and what doesnt!
I wont be running Slum Reaper, not a fan of its CMC.
I feel our Green mana production and ramp is sufficient to not need a signet, as it dilutes our gameplan (we want mana dorks, not rocks), and reduces our potential tutor count, and especially really excellent and synergistic ones like Diabolic Intent
Carpet is a defacto accellerant in more competitive green decks, and should do nicely here. I've neglected to include it due to a lack of blue in my meta, but that is quickly changing. Animate Dead has usually been a dead card. If it hasnt been dead, I would have preferred another tutor in its place. I've just been extremely underwhelmed by it.
I'm retesting Magus, and since we have enough fast mana dorks now, I figure I would cut one of the weakest. However, I do like Wood Elves to fetch my Bayou/Overgrown Tomb, so we shall see. Magus is being retested as a way to control the board since my meta is full of either token swarm decks, which we can handle, or decks that use 0-2 creatures on the board at any given time.
Carrion feeder is better in a build focusing on Meren's reanimation ability. We are winning via combo now, and while gaining experience counters can be useful, it is not ultimately important. Therefore, Feeder gets the cut. Obviously he does over Viscera Seer who can scry for us. Worldly Tutor I've been trying to fit in for weeks now, hoping to give it a shot tomorrow.
Oppression is winmore with Mindslicer, and otherwise can harm us or just be... useless. Priest is another mana dork since I've seen plenty of hands with the new mulligan rule that dont contain any dorks.
Priest is back due to needing better two drops. Farmhand's cost is somewhat prohibitive at times, but Dawntreader Elk is a poor Yisan/Pod target over priest/Fauna Shaman and since it wants to sacrifice itself. I picked up a judge promo Defense, so I had to include it. My meta is more keen on going wide, so having an "I win" one card combo to fetch Mike+Trike seems better than just a poor Mindslicer tutor.
Pattern returns! While I dislike how slow it can be (And it's pretty annoying in your opening hand), the ability to just grab whatever I need is obscenely strong. Stronger than another awkward token killer like Necroplasm, which isn't as big of a concern anymore for my meta. What I have found is a lack of an ability to find answers, specialized ones, or my wincons before others win. More tutors are necessary.
I'm going to build this deck, I have most of the cards, so I will be able to put it together (just need to get the sleeves for it and proxy up a couple of things I don't have yet).
I'm also going to see if I can jam The Abyss in this, either as a replacement for the Magus or in tandem.
I'm also trying to see how fast you can win with your list in the first page, and correct me I'm wrong, the quickest kill would be turn 3, correct? It would involve the absolute nut draw, but I can't think of how to pull it off turn 2.
I'm going to build this deck, I have most of the cards, so I will be able to put it together (just need to get the sleeves for it and proxy up a couple of things I don't have yet).
I'm also going to see if I can jam The Abyss in this, either as a replacement for the Magus or in tandem.
I'm also trying to see how fast you can win with your list in the first page, and correct me I'm wrong, the quickest kill would be turn 3, correct? It would involve the absolute nut draw, but I can't think of how to pull it off turn 2.
Believe so yes! I also dont own the Abyss but this is one Magus that isn't as terrible as a creature due to the fact it doesnt have to tap to use its effect.
While it pains me to do so, after moving from the midrange shell, Seer only remained as a way to poorly dig while Meren was in play, to gain exp counters, or to save a target from exile removal. It's not a good topdeck anymore, and as a result, I included something else that is always a huge threat and will eat removal like no others - Druid. He also will allow us to dig deep for combo pieces and disruption for Meren to reanimate, I hope. [/cards]
I've recently been interested in making a Meren deck and i would like to ask, on average about how many creatures can you reliably get into the graveyard? Both yours and your opponents. The reason i ask is because i'm thinking of using Bitter Ordeal in the deck.
I've recently been interested in making a Meren deck and i would like to ask, on average about how many creatures can you reliably get into the graveyard? Both yours and your opponents. The reason i ask is because i'm thinking of using Bitter Ordeal in the deck.
But that aside, why use Bitter Ordeal. I guess, what is your goal with it? To pull combo pieces out of your opponents deck(s)? To deck them? I dont know of any infinite combos to achieve decking with Ordeal in GB (but Kharador can do it!), so I assume the former.
the goal was not to go infinite, rather just neuter my opponents deck. in all honesty i hadn't even considered an infinite possibility. what would that be, 4 cards minimum? no, i just never see it played. seems like a card that would be fun. can it be powerful? i think so. is it win more? Yeah i guess so. one of those cards that could fluctuate in and out every now and again.
as far as the link you provided, yes, that's more along the lines of what i was thinking with Meren. this thread just seems to be a bit more active from what i've seen. sorry for the laziness, but don't get me wrong, i can appreciate the work you've put into your build and may try some ideas as it continues to evolve. so please, keep up the good work and maybe down the line i might pop back in to pick your brain.
the goal was not to go infinite, rather just neuter my opponents deck. in all honesty i hadn't even considered an infinite possibility. what would that be, 4 cards minimum? no, i just never see it played. seems like a card that would be fun. can it be powerful? i think so. is it win more? Yeah i guess so. one of those cards that could fluctuate in and out every now and again.
as far as the link you provided, yes, that's more along the lines of what i was thinking with Meren. this thread just seems to be a bit more active from what i've seen. sorry for the laziness, but don't get me wrong, i can appreciate the work you've put into your build and may try some ideas as it continues to evolve. so please, keep up the good work and maybe down the line i might pop back in to pick your brain.
No apologies needed! This thread is mainly active by my own doing haha. I'm hoping to get it to primer status. I would recommend posting there as the OP is very knowledgeable and will respond if you do post there!
Yeah, using it to neuter a known combo deck is definitely a solid idea. Setting it up could be difficult, but a possibility. Give it a shot and report back!
Can you comment a bit more about your meta? I'm specifically interested in:
How many people are typically in your games?
How "gentlemanly" are your mulligans? AKA 1-2 free mulligans, or going straight to 6?
What are the most popular decks you are facing, and how do they win? How do they typically stop you from winning?
How competitive are your opponents? By this I mean, is everyone equally competitive, or are there 1-2 people who take it much more seriously than the rest?
How much spot removal is played in your meta, and equally importantly, do you believe your opponents are using it correctly? In other words, how likely is it that Meren will simply die the first 1-2 times she drops if you don't protect her?
How long do your games typically last?
How much blue permission are you fighting against?
Can you comment a bit more about your meta? I'm specifically interested in:
How many people are typically in your games? 3-5 typically
How "gentlemanly" are your mulligans? AKA 1-2 free mulligans, or going straight to 6? Usually the new rule
What are the most popular decks you are facing, and how do they win? How do they typically stop you from winning? Honestly it's all over the place, with regards to strategies and generals, and as a result, the list's hate pieces and removal reflect that. Usually just graveyard hate/mass removal.
How competitive are your opponents? By this I mean, is everyone equally competitive, or are there 1-2 people who take it much more seriously than the rest? Again, all over the place. 50-100% decks. Typically we discuss power levels prior to starting.
How much spot removal is played in your meta, and equally importantly, do you believe your opponents are using it correctly? In other words, how likely is it that Meren will simply die the first 1-2 times she drops if you don't protect her? My opponents I will give credit for playing better than me, and I'm not sure how to judge how much is too much, but it feels sufficient. The thing is, Meren either lives most of the game, or is removed almost immediately, frequently. Again, there's nothing too consistent. However, I did notice relying less on her for her abilities and more to my deck, I have greater success due to the fact people do run spot removal
How long do your games typically last? 5-120 minutes
How much blue permission are you fighting against? Not as much as other metas for sure.
Understandable! I enjoy it alot myself, and it saddens me alot to remove those pieces. I just never really needed them once I included more ways to deal with tokens. I'll get to test it out again tomorrow evening, so we'll see what works and what doesnt!
I wont be running Slum Reaper, not a fan of its CMC.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Bitterblossom
Added:
Chord of Calling
Moving away from Grave Pact Meren to combo/Attrition Meren, we dont need faeries anymore. Awakening Zone serves a special purpose of generating mana and experience counters on its own. Chord enters as another way to hit Mindslicer/Necrotic Ooze/Mikaeus, the Unhallowed/Triskelion
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Golgari Signet
Added:
Diabolic Intent
I feel our Green mana production and ramp is sufficient to not need a signet, as it dilutes our gameplan (we want mana dorks, not rocks), and reduces our potential tutor count, and especially really excellent and synergistic ones like Diabolic Intent
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Animate Dead
Added:
Carpet of Flowers
Carpet is a defacto accellerant in more competitive green decks, and should do nicely here. I've neglected to include it due to a lack of blue in my meta, but that is quickly changing. Animate Dead has usually been a dead card. If it hasnt been dead, I would have preferred another tutor in its place. I've just been extremely underwhelmed by it.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
It's fantastic! I've used it in Legacy in Spanish Inquisition as a sb card against blue decks.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Wood Elves
Carrion Feeder
Added:
Magus of the Abyss
Worldly Tutor
I'm retesting Magus, and since we have enough fast mana dorks now, I figure I would cut one of the weakest. However, I do like Wood Elves to fetch my Bayou/Overgrown Tomb, so we shall see. Magus is being retested as a way to control the board since my meta is full of either token swarm decks, which we can handle, or decks that use 0-2 creatures on the board at any given time.
Carrion feeder is better in a build focusing on Meren's reanimation ability. We are winning via combo now, and while gaining experience counters can be useful, it is not ultimately important. Therefore, Feeder gets the cut. Obviously he does over Viscera Seer who can scry for us. Worldly Tutor I've been trying to fit in for weeks now, hoping to give it a shot tomorrow.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Oppression
Added:
Priest of Titania
Oppression is winmore with Mindslicer, and otherwise can harm us or just be... useless. Priest is another mana dork since I've seen plenty of hands with the new mulligan rule that dont contain any dorks.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Priest of Titania
Added:
Thorn of Amethyst
I've got enough mana dorks, Necroplasm on the watch list. Thorn is here to slow down control and combo decks.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Added:
Priest is back due to needing better two drops. Farmhand's cost is somewhat prohibitive at times, but Dawntreader Elk is a poor Yisan/Pod target over priest/Fauna Shaman and since it wants to sacrifice itself. I picked up a judge promo Defense, so I had to include it. My meta is more keen on going wide, so having an "I win" one card combo to fetch Mike+Trike seems better than just a poor Mindslicer tutor.
Farmhand is on the watch list, as is Sylvan Scrying and Necroplasm.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Necroplasm
Added:
Pattern of Rebirth
Pattern returns! While I dislike how slow it can be (And it's pretty annoying in your opening hand), the ability to just grab whatever I need is obscenely strong. Stronger than another awkward token killer like Necroplasm, which isn't as big of a concern anymore for my meta. What I have found is a lack of an ability to find answers, specialized ones, or my wincons before others win. More tutors are necessary.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I'm also going to see if I can jam The Abyss in this, either as a replacement for the Magus or in tandem.
I'm also trying to see how fast you can win with your list in the first page, and correct me I'm wrong, the quickest kill would be turn 3, correct? It would involve the absolute nut draw, but I can't think of how to pull it off turn 2.
Believe so yes! I also dont own the Abyss but this is one Magus that isn't as terrible as a creature due to the fact it doesnt have to tap to use its effect.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Removed:
Forest
Added:
Tainted Wood
Prepping to add Hermit Druid, so we need more non-basics!
Removed:
Added:
edit: Decided to add more fetches and expensive lands as proxies.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Viscera Seer
Added:
Hermit Druid
While it pains me to do so, after moving from the midrange shell, Seer only remained as a way to poorly dig while Meren was in play, to gain exp counters, or to save a target from exile removal. It's not a good topdeck anymore, and as a result, I included something else that is always a huge threat and will eat removal like no others - Druid. He also will allow us to dig deep for combo pieces and disruption for Meren to reanimate, I hope. [/cards]
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Not enough to deck anyone! haha. I dont play the midrangey "sac my stuff for value" anymore with the deck. This version is more focused on a combo kill and utilizes cards to better help achieve that goal. This topic would be better suited to what you're after http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/646091-meren-of-clan-nel-toth-on-revenge-and-reanimation
But that aside, why use Bitter Ordeal. I guess, what is your goal with it? To pull combo pieces out of your opponents deck(s)? To deck them? I dont know of any infinite combos to achieve decking with Ordeal in GB (but Kharador can do it!), so I assume the former.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
as far as the link you provided, yes, that's more along the lines of what i was thinking with Meren. this thread just seems to be a bit more active from what i've seen. sorry for the laziness, but don't get me wrong, i can appreciate the work you've put into your build and may try some ideas as it continues to evolve. so please, keep up the good work and maybe down the line i might pop back in to pick your brain.
No apologies needed! This thread is mainly active by my own doing haha. I'm hoping to get it to primer status. I would recommend posting there as the OP is very knowledgeable and will respond if you do post there!
Yeah, using it to neuter a known combo deck is definitely a solid idea. Setting it up could be difficult, but a possibility. Give it a shot and report back!
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Fyi I think Worldly Tutor is missing from the OP
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
I have, I'll do some testing!
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Added:
Scrying is slower and weaker than Crop Rotation. I originally didnt like sacrificing my lands, but with Cradle in the deck, Things have changed.
My group wasnt cool with Bazaar being used as a proxy if i had no intention of spending 800$+ on one, so a fetchland will replace it
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown