The land count is low enough where I wouldn't worry about that over just ensuring some reliable draw, especially since late game Flow of Ideas can draw more than it and late game would be the only time I'd probably scry away lands. Not only that, but a lot of hands find a wheel and some dead cards don't even matter. In my experience low land count decks like this will have a few games where lands are needed off top deck because the hand is gas. I actually know where a foil one is so I'll put it in the sideboard binder to try sometime. But for now, other cards have priorities.
Welgo, I though Cavern of Souls would be an auto include in such a commander dependent deck. Are you going to run Teferi, Temporal Archmage? Moxnix recommended it and you seem to be leaning that way.
Welgo, I though Cavern of Souls would be an auto include in such a commander dependent deck. Are you going to run Teferi, Temporal Archmage? Moxnix recommended it and you seem to be leaning that way.
I agree with all of this.
These 3 cards have all been real good although I may put in chain of vapor over capsize if the deck changes to not focus on the general so much
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Welgo, I though Cavern of Souls would be an auto include in such a commander dependent deck. Are you going to run Teferi, Temporal Archmage? Moxnix recommended it and you seem to be leaning that way.
I agree with all of this.
These 3 cards have all been real good although I may put in chain of vapor over capsize if the deck changes to not focus on the general so much
One thing I should note is that I'm playing a more control/combo that focuses on generating value following up with a big Past in Flames or Mizzix's Mastery turn than the straight combo which is what seems to be here. So I do have a slightly different experience.
Welgo, I though Cavern of Souls would be an auto include in such a commander dependent deck. Are you going to run Teferi, Temporal Archmage? Moxnix recommended it and you seem to be leaning that way.
I agree with all of this.
These 3 cards have all been real good although I may put in chain of vapor over capsize if the deck changes to not focus on the general so much
I guess I just didn't get around to the Cavern and forgot. I think it's because the foil is next on my Sharuum list so I can pass one down instead of buying another nonfoil. I remember thinking of it the other day though as a reinforcement for Guttersnipe. Capsize was out just because I wanted to get Submerge in here.
As for teferi Walker, I know two people with them and haven't gotten to them in person yet. I know it's only 3-4$ but I feel like I can just be handed one.
Probably going to have to cut Comet Storm, idk how powerful it'll be mid game as actual removal as opposed to a win con.
Why not Tidespout Tyrant?
Play him, bounce some artifacts, grapeshot.
Tyrant seems too big of a body right now. Maybe later, but Temporal Fissure is pretty much that for the time being, except it's spells beforehand instead of after, which seems to be the way to go
Really interesting list... I like Mizzix: she's the first Izzet general who's interested me.
I'm probably being a bit slow, though, but: how does this deck normally win? I get the alternate wincon with Guttersnipe, but otherwise I'm just seeing a pile of powerful blue and red spells: what are the main combos here?
As of now, Ignite Memories and Comet Storm but I may cut the latter. From what I understand from Doomblade, Temporal Fissure followed by a wheel card like Wheel of Fortune ends it as well. As far as I can tell from my first experience, you start playing a few cards and then all of a sudden you have a new hand and then all of a sudden you're playing...your whole deck. Casting Mind's Desire leads to casting it again for even bigger.
With enough mana from High Tide it is possible to kill one opponent with Stroke of Genius via draw-out as well, although I don't know how often this list does this in a practical sense.
So I'm a little late to this thread, but whatever. Mizzix is great. Once you set up that mighty Epic Experiment and flip a Storm card, you become a fan for life.
I did want to opine on Comet Storm real quick, since there has been talk of it getting cut. I think it's a super important card to have access to, even if it doesn't necessarily lend itself to a combo finish. Even a midgame Comet Storm for some small number (say, 4 or 5) to clear away a couple creatures and give you some breathing room can be extremely important. You can fetch it off Firemind's Foresight, too. (I've always wanted to use FF as a toolbox tutor, and now I can finally do it.)
I second capitacom's thoughts on Repeal - it is the nut. And also really important if you need to get rid of a Rule of Law or something similar before going off.
I admit my build sounds more similar to docstorm's (value first, combo second), but it is still a blast (of genius) to play, and I am looking forward to seeing all of the silly things you guys come up with in this thread.
Second win-con could be Laboratory Maniac since its a piece of cake to go through your whole library (but I think that is a pretty boring game ending move).
If you notice, Guttersnipe and Ignite Memories are in list for now, it is possible I add Grapeshot. Lab man is something Im staying away from (for now). LED I cant afford and Hurkyl's Recall will probably be replacing something today. I like having an option to bounce in response to a wipe.
Repeal wont add an experience counter at the times it needs to. I'd prefer Chain of Vapor or Capsize or to keep testing Submerge. Actual cantripping isnt that great here since draw spells become so cheap. Drawing one card and returning one permanent seems a little low impact and can't offer me anything more. As for Comet Storm, the thing is usually if I cast Firemind's Foresight I can probably get whatever combo I need simply because I'm probably already deep into storming. Not saying Im gonna cut it, but its reason for being added already seems obsolete. I abandoned the Inexorable Tide for now so pushing up experience counters to 6+ isnt something easy to do, but it doesn't seem to matter. I was comfortable casting most the deck with 4 experience counters.
Out: Inner Fire Winmore card. Only good when you don't really need it. The red mana doesnt do too much.
In: Hurkyl's Recall Adds to storm count and generates mana with rocks and with the back up of bouncing rocks in response to a board wipe.
Out: Gush too commander specific with too little draw when I can cast it. The instant speed and alt cast don't make up for it.
In: Copy Artifact cheapest option for this idea, may add Scultping Steel and even metamorph if the idea is strong.
Out: Submerge Awesome card that fits everything but the fact creatures aren't the decks only option
In: Capsize I was scared of the double blue but the resilience the card adds to the deck and the abusibility with the leader may make games that go an extra turn or two easier to deal with
Out:Call to Mind seems great to have this effect be redundant but Mystic Retrieval does a lot more
In: Red Elemental Blast countering during storm with a red mana seems really great now that I've tested the waters. Would like to add the other.
Welgo, Moxnix plays Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Chrome Mox, Mox Opal, and Mox Diamond. These get even better with your addition of Hurkly's Recall. You mentioned price was an issue for LED. If you owned all of them, what would go into the deck and what would come out?
I was wondering if Grapeshot would get mentioned. Is it close to going into the deck, possibly for Comet Storm?
Yes, Storm getting cut for Grapeshot seems likely, if not whatever needs to be more redundant. So far in my experience, I will suddenly explode and the combo piece I've been sitting on has become in a sense pointless because I can grab whatever else I need or come across it pretty quick. I need to say again though, I am new to all of this so I have to discover a lot of what is already known. In addition to that, I played in a a proactive (vs interactive) meta so I feel like I picked up some wiggle room I shouldn't expect.
The 0 cmc rocks are on the table now. Colored mana seems important, but each has something that made me rethink it. I've never run them without Ad Nauseam and colored cards I can confidently exile (like Time Sieve if I know I'll be pushing Gravestorm to win) which is a driving force for why I still play Chrome Mox over in Sharuum. Maybe when I get a better handle on the deck. Mox Diamond also seems harder to play with access to fewer rocks 2 or less or the artifact lands.
You have Reset in the list, to my understanding this only makes sense when you want to go off in an opponents turn.
But since we are limited to instant speed (in their turn) and are in a sigleton format (only one Reset, only one High Tide, only one Dig through Time) I see only one way to make this happen. 1. Flash enablers (Leyline of Anticipation, Vedalken Orrery) so you can cast the card draw spells/win condition that are sorcery speed.
Reset + Reiterate makes infinite mana on an opponent's turn. Then Stroke or Comet Storm wins the game from there. Reset + Reiterate + Lightning Bolt would also win the game, and the whole thing can be fetched by Firemind's Foresight.
I'm always a little leery of playing Grapeshot as a Storm piece, just because it takes a MASSIVE number of spells for it to kill people. Like, Grapeshot for 40 will kill a player, sure - but Ignite Memories for 40 will kill the table.
I've actually been getting some huge value out of Brain Freeze lately - cast on myself, of course. You hit that Past in Flames and the game is just over.
Grape Shot seems more like a better form of removal than Comet Storm. I'd rather have that as removal simply because clearing dorks can be as easy as a storm count of three. I'm not saying its a guaranteed switch, but it seems more viable early and mid game.
Grape Shot seems more like a better form of removal than Comet Storm. I'd rather have that as removal simply because clearing dorks can be as easy as a storm count of three. I'm not saying its a guaranteed switch, but it seems more viable early and mid game.
See, I disagree there. Grapeshot requires a couple of spells to do what Comet Storm can do with just lands - and at instant speed, to boot. Your only advantage to using Grapeshot in that instance is if you're trying to push through countermagic. Or for killing Gaddock Teeg, I suppose.
I don't know what your meta is like, so you could very well be making the right call. It's just that, to me, Grapeshot isn't much of a substitute for Comet Storm.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I agree with all of this.
These 3 cards have all been real good although I may put in chain of vapor over capsize if the deck changes to not focus on the general so much
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
One thing I should note is that I'm playing a more control/combo that focuses on generating value following up with a big Past in Flames or Mizzix's Mastery turn than the straight combo which is what seems to be here. So I do have a slightly different experience.
Play him, bounce some artifacts, grapeshot.
I guess I just didn't get around to the Cavern and forgot. I think it's because the foil is next on my Sharuum list so I can pass one down instead of buying another nonfoil. I remember thinking of it the other day though as a reinforcement for Guttersnipe. Capsize was out just because I wanted to get Submerge in here.
As for teferi Walker, I know two people with them and haven't gotten to them in person yet. I know it's only 3-4$ but I feel like I can just be handed one.
Probably going to have to cut Comet Storm, idk how powerful it'll be mid game as actual removal as opposed to a win con.
Tyrant seems too big of a body right now. Maybe later, but Temporal Fissure is pretty much that for the time being, except it's spells beforehand instead of after, which seems to be the way to go
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
Really interesting list... I like Mizzix: she's the first Izzet general who's interested me.
I'm probably being a bit slow, though, but: how does this deck normally win? I get the alternate wincon with Guttersnipe, but otherwise I'm just seeing a pile of powerful blue and red spells: what are the main combos here?
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
Mizzix Of The Izmagnus : wheels on fire... rolling down the road...
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Cast Blue Sun and draw your library.
It shuffles back into your library.
Future Sight reveals Blue Sun as the top card of your library.
Deck one opponent.
Blue Sun shuffles back into your library.
Cast it again. And again. And again.
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
I did want to opine on Comet Storm real quick, since there has been talk of it getting cut. I think it's a super important card to have access to, even if it doesn't necessarily lend itself to a combo finish. Even a midgame Comet Storm for some small number (say, 4 or 5) to clear away a couple creatures and give you some breathing room can be extremely important. You can fetch it off Firemind's Foresight, too. (I've always wanted to use FF as a toolbox tutor, and now I can finally do it.)
I second capitacom's thoughts on Repeal - it is the nut. And also really important if you need to get rid of a Rule of Law or something similar before going off.
I admit my build sounds more similar to docstorm's (value first, combo second), but it is still a blast (of genius) to play, and I am looking forward to seeing all of the silly things you guys come up with in this thread.
Grapeshot, Brain Freeze, Ignite Memories and maybe Guttersnipe.
Second win-con could be Laboratory Maniac since its a piece of cake to go through your whole library (but I think that is a pretty boring game ending move).
Why dont you play Lion's Eye Diamond? Its great in response to a Wheel.
What about Hurkyl's Recall? Great with that many artifacts on the board.
Repeal wont add an experience counter at the times it needs to. I'd prefer Chain of Vapor or Capsize or to keep testing Submerge. Actual cantripping isnt that great here since draw spells become so cheap. Drawing one card and returning one permanent seems a little low impact and can't offer me anything more. As for Comet Storm, the thing is usually if I cast Firemind's Foresight I can probably get whatever combo I need simply because I'm probably already deep into storming. Not saying Im gonna cut it, but its reason for being added already seems obsolete. I abandoned the Inexorable Tide for now so pushing up experience counters to 6+ isnt something easy to do, but it doesn't seem to matter. I was comfortable casting most the deck with 4 experience counters.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
It was more a response to HardCasting.
Out: Inner Fire Winmore card. Only good when you don't really need it. The red mana doesnt do too much.
In: Hurkyl's Recall Adds to storm count and generates mana with rocks and with the back up of bouncing rocks in response to a board wipe.
Out: Gush too commander specific with too little draw when I can cast it. The instant speed and alt cast don't make up for it.
In: Copy Artifact cheapest option for this idea, may add Scultping Steel and even metamorph if the idea is strong.
Out: Submerge Awesome card that fits everything but the fact creatures aren't the decks only option
In: Capsize I was scared of the double blue but the resilience the card adds to the deck and the abusibility with the leader may make games that go an extra turn or two easier to deal with
Out:Call to Mind seems great to have this effect be redundant but Mystic Retrieval does a lot more
In: Red Elemental Blast countering during storm with a red mana seems really great now that I've tested the waters. Would like to add the other.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
I was wondering if Grapeshot would get mentioned. Is it close to going into the deck, possibly for Comet Storm?
The 0 cmc rocks are on the table now. Colored mana seems important, but each has something that made me rethink it. I've never run them without Ad Nauseam and colored cards I can confidently exile (like Time Sieve if I know I'll be pushing Gravestorm to win) which is a driving force for why I still play Chrome Mox over in Sharuum. Maybe when I get a better handle on the deck. Mox Diamond also seems harder to play with access to fewer rocks 2 or less or the artifact lands.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
But since we are limited to instant speed (in their turn) and are in a sigleton format (only one Reset, only one High Tide, only one Dig through Time) I see only one way to make this happen. 1. Flash enablers (Leyline of Anticipation, Vedalken Orrery) so you can cast the card draw spells/win condition that are sorcery speed.
When I see Reset I'd like to play something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmKTE1HhgDw
Please correct me if Im wrong. Or what were your plans with Reset?
Legacy: UBRG Czech Pile, WWW Death & Taxes, many other things
Modern: UBR Grixis, RWG Burn, UR UR Storm, BBB 8 Rack, whatever other control deck I can force
Multiplayer EDH: RR Norin the Wary, UU Barrin, Master Wizard, UB Wrexial, the Risen Deep, GR Borborygmos, Enraged
I've actually been getting some huge value out of Brain Freeze lately - cast on myself, of course. You hit that Past in Flames and the game is just over.
URXSurf's Up, Mizz Magnus!XRU
URGWKynaios and Tiro's Multiplayer MenagerieWGRU
See, I disagree there. Grapeshot requires a couple of spells to do what Comet Storm can do with just lands - and at instant speed, to boot. Your only advantage to using Grapeshot in that instance is if you're trying to push through countermagic. Or for killing Gaddock Teeg, I suppose.
I don't know what your meta is like, so you could very well be making the right call. It's just that, to me, Grapeshot isn't much of a substitute for Comet Storm.