So this concept's been done before, but essentially the idea is to protect my board state enough until I can either combo off with infinte mana, or failing that, have enough colored mana to play with to surgically cripple the opponent's board. The deck's debut went pretty well, but as gameplay goes on, I've been running into a few hurdles that I would like some advice on.
Firstly, there are some instances where the deck just runs out of gas. Bad opening hands or the wrong spells being neutralized put me dead in the water. I'm trying to find some ways around this, but as this is my first commander deck, I'm a little at a loss.
Aggro decks are another problem. There are many instances in recent games where if I can't resolve a Propaganda early, that I have some problems pulling through. Cards like Wurmcoil and Batterskull, in part, were meant to help with this, but sometimes they are either not proving enough, or they get answered and leave me back in a very bad position.
Artifact hate, recurring especially, is also a significant problem. One of my friends runs Trigun Predator in his main commander deck, and this card has proved very difficult for me to deal with.
At this point, I'm not sure if it's me playing the deck poorly, or if I'm missing some key polish to have the deck running more smoothly. I mostly play the deck in 3 way games or the occasional 1 on 1. Any feedback is greatly appreciated and will be seriously considered. Thank you
Hey man, props for playing the mechanic madman of destiny. He's pretty awesome and I really like playing him a lot. I'll share a few insights that I have gained as I've played with Memnarch for quite a few years now. Bear with me as I break down a few suggestions.
Batterskull seems really out of place in my opinion. It's a big beater. If you're looking for an answer to aggro, I think there are a few other options that you can consider instead. I think it could easily be replaced with a few cards, which I will suggest at the end of my post here.
I don't like Platinum Emperion. It doesn't win the game and dies to removal pretty easily and doesn't solve your card advantage problems, which I think is more crucial than handling aggro problems.
You definitely have a heavy emphasis on the combo aspect of Memnarch and making infinite mana all the time. I like it. It reminds me of my first few iterations of Memnarch until I settled into my current Control/combo deck. Check out my thread in my signature for a few suggestions or card ideas. I've put together a Primer that I think is pretty comprehensive, but I realize that I didn't really devote as much energy in covering the competitive hyper combo build that your list resembles. Hmm. Back to the drawing board.
Anyways, Vedalken Shackles is great. I highly recommend playing it. I also suggest adding a few more fetchlands, to make your Delve spells a little more practical. All is Dust becomes really good in your build because of your heavy emphasis on artifacts. Wash Out also becomes really good, depending on your meta. The transition that I made in adding an Azami package really pushed away my card advantage problems while also giving me a few chump blockers to survive until I can establish board position and steal the board, and the game, away.
Something I also notice is that you don't have much early game ramp. Consider adding Mind Stone and its ilk so that you can get to the late game faster. How do you like your Arcum Dagsson Package? Does it work for you consistently?
I did look at the guide. I like the idea of shackles a lot, and this engine with Akama may also be handy. It's very true that this will also give me way more early plays. Wash Out....may or may not work. I have one friend that constantly plays Simic, but my other friend flips between a few different colors. I suppose at worst, however, that it will wipe out one person's board, which should be at least favorable.
What are your thoughts on cards like Illusionist's Bracers and Rings of Brighthearth--or the transmute cards? Do you think there's enough merit in the combo (or at the very least, reuse of mana rocks and copying Memnarch's ability) to warrant those card slots?
I really like Illusionist's Bracers. I really like that it copies activated abilities for free, which is great. It has obvious synergy with some of the most important cards in the deck, and by adding the Azami package, which I see you've added in, you make the Wizards in your deck that much more powerful. I think I would personally run it over Rings of Brighthearth because the Rings requires mana to get the same effect. The Rings does provide the ability to make infinite colorless mana in your deck, however. So that's definitely a call on your part, because you can have the redundancy of both or just the one. I don't know what your meta looks like, but mine is somewhat lacking in spot removal it seems. So I think I can get away with only having one effect. Further, the Bracers will go infinite by themselves with the Aphetto Alchemist and Fatestitcher in addition to making Patron Wizard, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Arcanis the Omnipotent, and Sigil Tracer much, much better. (EDIT: Upon further reflection, the Bracers cannot go infinite with the Fatestitcher. Fatestitcher can't target itself with its own ability.) So you already have redundancy for going infinite in your list, which I really like actually. The Bracers inifnite combo, also importantly, creates infinite colored mana which is way more relevant for Memnarch than infinite colorless. I think I might incorporate it myself.
As for the Transmute cards, Drift of Phantasms might be better replaced with Intuition or another card draw piece or basically anything else. It does find some pretty awesome cards, but I think it would be better as either of those cards. Vedalken Aethermage (look in a gatherer database) would also be a good addition.
Let me know how Sword of Feast and Famine goes for you. I really like it and it's incredible in my heavy BUG meta, but it's a niche card that can draw way too much attention to you.
Anyways, I really like your list in its current iteration. One other card I would recommend that I'm actually testing out myself is Grand Architect. Even without Pili-Pala for the infinite combo, the fact that it helps me cast Memnarch earlier and makes all my blue creatures mana sources for Memnarch's activated ability is extremely powerful in theory. I can also have my blue dudes tap out for the powerful artifacts in my list while still holding mana for counterspells and responses. I think I will actually add some more of the cards that you have in your list because infinite mana is what I'm trying to go for, not Lab Man wins. That never felt right to me anyways.
(EDIT: Upon further reflection, the Bracers cannot go infinite with the Fatestitcher. Fatestitcher can't target itself with its own ability.)
Hm. Yeah...now that I'm looking at the card again, you're absolutely right. That's unfortunate. That sorta makes the card a lot worse for this deck. I wonder if it's worth it to replace it with Tidewater Minion, or just to replace it with something completely different.
I don't think so. i think having the Alchemist is enough since Memnarch can turn any permanent into an artifact, making the Alchemist's restriction a moot point. I'm torn on adding Alhammerret's Archive though. It seems so good with the Azami package and makes most of our card draw effects absolutely ridiculous. And it's pretty reasonably costed, CMC wise, to be able to slide in to the deck easily without disrupting the curve too much. What are your thoughts?
Hopefully this isn't considered necro considering I'm still thinking of deck changes here.
I'm not sure about Alhammarret's Archive. It's nice, definitely, and makes Azami good (not to mention Arcanis), but it's pretty situational. Still in all, I'll probably test it. One card I have become very fond of in the 5 drop spot, however, is Magus of the Future. I like having the additional Future Sight effect, especially since this deck lacks means to fetch out an enchantment. It's wizard subtype has also been handy for Patron Wizard or Azami triggers.
Another card I'm thinking about is Nevinyrral's Disk, for redundancy with Oblivion Stone. I've been thinking of cutting Tidewater for that, especially given the amount of aggro and midrange decks in my local metagame. The ETB tapped affect sorta worries me, though, as does the inability to protect my board, as opposed to fate counters. Any thoughts on this?
With the no-tuck rule in commander now, several decks have been reduced to:
1. Get infinite mana
2. Cast commander
3. Win with commander abilities.
I guess it would depend on meta, but I found mono blue harder to work with in my meta so I eventually went to a BUG shell with Tasigur as the wincon, but basically the same formula.
Enter the Infinite with LabMan might be a decent secondary wincon. Depends on how long your games go.
My playgroup has a fair few control based decks. Something like Enter the Infinite with Lab Man seems to take up a bit of space for what is ultimately a gamble. If I'm not able to get my win con off, usually I'm either getting beaten down too fast--or more often, I'm losing the control war/combo pieces. By the time I could cast Enter the Infinite, I could cast Palinchron /and/ Extraplanar Lens /and/ have counterspell magic ready.
Granted, depending on who's at the table, this may be a decent surprise win-con. However, in my local metagame, if I survive to the late game, I'm usually going to win anyway, so this combo is a little too "win more" to warrant the slots.
Hopefully this isn't considered necro considering I'm still thinking of deck changes here.
I'm not sure about Alhammarret's Archive. It's nice, definitely, and makes Azami good (not to mention Arcanis), but it's pretty situational. Still in all, I'll probably test it. One card I have become very fond of in the 5 drop spot, however, is Magus of the Future. I like having the additional Future Sight effect, especially since this deck lacks means to fetch out an enchantment. It's wizard subtype has also been handy for Patron Wizard or Azami triggers.
Another card I'm thinking about is Nevinyrral's Disk, for redundancy with Oblivion Stone. I've been thinking of cutting Tidewater for that, especially given the amount of aggro and midrange decks in my local metagame. The ETB tapped affect sorta worries me, though, as does the inability to protect my board, as opposed to fate counters. Any thoughts on this?
Hey, if Aggro is so predominant in your meta, I don't think you can have too many wrath effects. If it continues to be a problem, consider Aetherize, Aetherspouts, Echoing Truth (if it's token swarms that are doing you in), and Reins of Power in addition to Nevinyrral's Disk. Mono-Blue, I think, has basically two options against aggro: moar control or faster combo. Especially if the wrath of the table is against you, it becomes really hard to win through constant pressure. My meta is so combo-control that I don't really need to worry about the aggro aspect. Spot removal on the bigger creatures, shackling up other people's creatures to make them your blockers, Treachery, Gilded Drake, blocking with Wizards, you just want to survive into the late game. Getting Memnarch into play to begin stealing their dudes might be your first option then, as I normally start stealing a player's mana base if Memnarch lives.
Magus of the Future I've gone back and forth over. It's card advantage, lets you dig deeper into your library than normal, adds redundancy to Sensei's Top, and has overall good synergy with the deck. I just don't know what I would want to cut.
As for secondary win conditions, I think they're pretty superfluous. I always find myself using Memnarch as my finisher, every time. Whether or not I'm going infinite with him or not, the ability to steal permanents is so valuable in the late game. I can basically steal my win condition pretty consistently. And in the rare case that someone Pithing Needles him, I work around that and control the board as best I can. I don't like Enter the Infinite because it's so hella expensive and is a terrible draw in the early and mid game. LabMan is also an unsatisfying win condition. I just don't like him outside of Grixis colors, I find.
I'm going to give Aetherize and Aethersprouts a try, I think. I'll update the decklist based on that. I'm also giving Bribery a spin as well, given how one of my main opponents plays Simic, which has profit of crufix in the deck, and he's thinking of slotting in the new Ulamog as well.
Excellent choices, I think. What turns do you find these aggro decks beginning to really apply pressure to you? I think that will determine which choice might be better for you in the long run.
Bribery is a great card. Getting Prophet of Kruphix is usually my number 1 priority with it, but sometimes grabbing the old Ulamog from the Animar player can cause me to win games faster than the Prophet.
I think I'm going to have to forego the Magus of the Future. Every card in my current list has pulled its weight multiple times. The only card I could forsee cutting is Stroke of Genius, since Magus will give me more cards for about the same mana usually. But Stroke is a win con and is an instant. That's basically what it comes down to, really. Card advantage or control advantage...
A really, really fun interaction is Deadeye Navigator and Vendilion Clique. I pulled it off in a 1v1 against an opposing Oona player, and, in short, I won. It's the ultimate feeling of control. And Clique is still really good against those opposing combo control players while still having definite power to deter attackers if needed. Thoughts?
It seems pretty solid, and with Riptide Laboratory as an alternate means of blinking it (albeit for six mana instead of two), and Expedition Map to tutor that out, it seems at least like something that can be used somewhat reliably. Flash is nice too. Not exactly sure what I'd cut. I haven't actually had a chance to use Bribery yet. Likewise I rarely swing sideways, so Sword of Feast and Famine, while nice, is very, very situational for me. I'm probably leaning a little more towards Bribery simply because, while it is really good, I've never actually needed it. Hand disruption, especially potential recurring hand disruption, feels more up my alley.
I want to test it for sure. I'll have to mull my list over and see what I can cut to test it. The hand disruption will be extremely valuable in my group since hands are considered pretty sancrosanct. The combo players would be so vulnerable to a well-timed Clique. And mass LD is just right out...
Dude. Did you see the new Sphinx? It's a strong consideration for auto-include in our decks. Definitely. I am itching to pre-order that guy. The only thing comparable to it is Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, and to have 2 of those effects in a deck seems really strong, especially the Sphinx's uncounterability and shroud. The only way to kill it is with a wrath or mass bounce effect, which is exactly what I'm looking for.
Sword of Feast and Famine is always great in my playgroup. There's always someone with green and to be able to block Animar with a Sworded up Trinket Mage is pretty awesome. I understand if it doesn't make the cut though.
Your list looks very streamlined at this point. I think the only real differences in our lists come down to meta preferences and perhaps card availability. I like what I see and I bet you're getting the mono-Blue Archenemy feel. How are your mass removal effects Aetherize and Aetherspouts working for you?
EDIT: Counterbalance. Intersting inclusion, especially since you don't run any fetch lands. How has it been for you? Having a free counter seems pretty strong, and it makes Top that much more useful. I had it in my Nicol Bolas control deck, and it was great to counter things for 1. I've often thought of including it again.
I ended up cutting Bribery in the end. One person I play runs prophet of Crufix, but if he doesn't use that deck, Bribery becomes a lot weaker. And again...sorcery speed for five. There are other cards I would much rather play. I won't deny it's strong, but the focus on permission has served me better. I've been finding that, as a general rule, I don't like sorceries in this deck at all--exactly why I never ran cards like Æther Gale. In any event, I'll let you know my results for Clique when I get the chance to test it.
Aetherize and Aetherspouts have been handy purely for the redundancy in some matchups. I typically only need to pop such mass creature removal once or twice, but having that effect on four cards pretty much means I'll get one provided I'm not drawing utterly dead. Aetherize in particular has been a lifesaver due to the four mana CMC as opposed to 5+.
Sphinx of the Final Word looks pretty solid, and makes it very hard to lose the counter war--almost impossible due the hexproof. That's something I'm not sure what to cut for, especially given it's high CMC. I'd almost say I'd cut sword for it, but that might be a good sword target in itself for certain matchups due to the evasion and hexproof. It's something I certainly need to figure out, because you're right. That card looks nuts.
The lack of fetchlands for Counterbalance can be unfortunate, especially if my top three cards are completely useless. I haven't drawn it often for one reason or another, but I've found when I do get it, it can be a very strong force and makes the full use out of Sensei's Divining Top. In my local meta, having free counter effects is always very helpful due to how often I've become the "archenemy", and it's imperative that I have a constant answer. Combine that with the simple fact that I can also use things like Brainstorm, or even Azami to dig in an extra card, and it's been a lifesaver.
Edit: It occurred to me. I'm not sure if this would ever actually come up in a game, but if necessary, wouldn't the use of Vendilion Clique also sculpt our own hand, if we're differ for some manner of combo piece? It may not be practical, but the option may be useful if you absolutely need an answer that turn.
Sounds good regarding the testing of Clique. And yes, you can target yourself to sculpt your hand. If you ever had Deadeye and Clique, you have a card draw engine and disruption on a stick essentially. It can be a way to cycle unwanted lands or spells to try and dig deeper into the combo.
How is Mind Over Matter? It didn't quite get me the infinite mana that I'm trying to go for and I never have Azami or Arcanis in play/hand when I draw it. And I really like having cards in hand rather than pitching them, but it's definitely been useful to me in the past.
Counterbalance countered a Pact of Negation once by flipping over a land. It was sweet! It definitely has its perks and Grixis was the best deck for it with as many top of deck tutors that it was running (Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Lim-Dul's Vault, etc.). Let me know how it goes. Memnarch players unite to take over the meta game!
As for the Sphinx of Winning the Control Match up, maybe Teferi will be replaced. Maybe. Teferi stops Storm decks, I think. At least the way it was explained to me, he does, and there's a potent Azami storm deck in my meta.
Keep on mechanizing all the things into your control!
I don't like replacing Teferi at all. In my opinion, one of the most important things in EDH is redundancy. The guy that plays Simic is always gunning for me, so--at least for me--being able to shut down the control matchup on two fronts is an advantage I absolutely want to be able to do. Being able to force removal and other effects at sorcery speed allows me to use Aphetto Alchemist or Palinchron with impunity as well.
If I had money I would play with using Jace, The Mind Sculptor in this deck. It has recurring dig effects, and the ability to sorcery speed brainstorm constantly can help control what's on the deck for counterbalance. Combined with Sensei's Divining Top, and we have a pretty good amount of cards we can manipulate to the top. I may playtest in on Cockatrice to see if it at least works.
As for Mind Over Matter...I rarely draw it. I've gotten it three times, in fact. I've had better luck getting Azami or Arcanis out. If you can untap with Arcanis or play Azami at any point after it's out, you more or less win. It might be a card I'm more likely to cut for Sphinx, though, given both have high CMCs. Mind over Matter is something that will give you a very strong chance of winning if you combo with it. Sphinx is something that will give you a strong chance of winning the control matchup. I think the application sorta boils down to which role you want to fill.
Is Mind Over Matter good? Absolutely. However, it's weak in a vacuum, and both combo pieces are elements we cannot directly tutor. I may liken it, in this sense, to a less vulnerable Pili-Pala in terms of its applications.
I don't like replacing Teferi at all. In my opinion, one of the most important things in EDH is redundancy. The guy that plays Simic is always gunning for me, so--at least for me--being able to shut down the control matchup on two fronts is an advantage I absolutely want to be able to do. Being able to force removal and other effects at sorcery speed allows me to use Aphetto Alchemist or Palinchron with impunity as well.
If I had money I would play with using Jace, The Mind Sculptor in this deck. It has recurring dig effects, and the ability to sorcery speed brainstorm constantly can help control what's on the deck for counterbalance. Combined with Sensei's Divining Top, and we have a pretty good amount of cards we can manipulate to the top. I may playtest in on Cockatrice to see if it at least works.
As for Mind Over Matter...I rarely draw it. I've gotten it three times, in fact. I've had better luck getting Azami or Arcanis out. If you can untap with Arcanis or play Azami at any point after it's out, you more or less win. It might be a card I'm more likely to cut for Sphinx, though, given both have high CMCs. Mind over Matter is something that will give you a very strong chance of winning if you combo with it. Sphinx is something that will give you a strong chance of winning the control matchup. I think the application sorta boils down to which role you want to fill.
Is Mind Over Matter good? Absolutely. However, it's weak in a vacuum, and both combo pieces are elements we cannot directly tutor. I may liken it, in this sense, to a less vulnerable Pili-Pala in terms of its applications.
I agree about the Teferi redundancy. There is so much control in my meta as well that being able to have a second card that says "I win your counter wars" will be a welcome addition to the deck. Too bad it's not a wizard too...
I go back and forth with Mind Over Matter all the time. It's hard to tutor for, sorcery speed, and requires card disadvantage and is terrible in a vaccuum. But, then again, it's a combo piece that also has additional utility in tapping things down during the upkeep in case you need that dude tapped or that Gaea's Cradle handled. I find myself taking it out and then putting it back in on a bi monthly basis, depending on my mood at the time.
I've never been a fan of Jace. I had it in my BUG deck when it first came out, and it would just die to random dudes way too frequently, and having a brainstorm for 4 mana hasn't really been good. If you think you'll have better use of it, then test it. The games in which I had him he was a waste. But in the 1v1 games I played with him, Jace resolved = win.
Your list has evolved quite a bit, I must say, and I really admire what it's become. I think that you have redundancy in all the areas that there need to be redundancies in and each card has great application. I find myself considering certain cards now because they appear in your list. A good decklist builds credibility. Would you include Snapcaster Mage if you could? How has Foil been for you?
I would absolutely include Snapcaster Mage if I could. It's utility, it can set people off guard, it's a last minute blocker if needed, and can be triggered off Patron Wizard and Azami, and you can abuse the hell out of it with Deadeye Navigator and Riptide Laboratory. That's insane.
Foil is a card I love to see in the mid or late game. Early game, the card disadvantage can be prohibitive outside of very niche situations. As a rule, I like to keep it in reserve for the situations where winning the counter war can either decide the game, or give me a significant advantage (such as protecting an early cast of Consecrated Sphinx/Arcanis the Omnipotent). That said, it's one of the last cards I can take out, because a free counterspell is so powerful and can mess up anyone's plans.
My thoughts with JMS is honestly not just to spam Brainstorm every turn--although it's very well tempting--but also make use of his unsummon so I can keep him from getting killed, and maybe occasionally using the +2. Being able to take a Commander out of the picture seems very strong, especially with the amount of counterspells being used.
Snapcaster Mage is really, really good and I'm glad I picked mine up when the market for him was low. He's been great for me.
Force of Will > Foil, but of course you know that so I imagine that getting a Force is on the to do list at some point.
I tried Counterbalance in my deck, based on prior experience and it showing up in your list, and it was ridiculously awesome. I countered 5 spells with it in my 3rd game of the evening and it was really powerful. For a more descriptive game report, check out my most recent post in my Memnarch Primer. I played against a supra fast Damia deck and I think I want to trim my deck down and add some more, faster mana as well as some cheaper removal spells. Gilded Drake, Pongify, Rapid Hybridization are the ones I'm considering for cheaper removal and I want to get Mana Crypt in here. All is Dust hasn't been performing well and hasn't been a card I want to see in many of my games, so I think it's going to finally get the cut for good. How can we beat faster combo decks? The best ways, that I've found, are to play more removal, faster mana, or mana denial on them. Do you think there are ways to incorporate more of these elements in our deck? Back to Basics is hard to tutor for but can be really powerful when timed correctly, but it might be too slow.
Force of Will is eventually on the to do list when I'm not poor as hell, although at that point, I may just run all three. Why settle for two free counters when you can have three?
Counterbalance really put up its weight in gold in my last session, where even blind it stopped three threats. It's much better with top, but having a recurring counter effect for free is simply amazing.
Speaking of recurring counters, I thought of a potential control tech that can also double up as a win con: Isochron Scepter. With infinite colorless mana using Aphetto Alchemist, we have a complete lock on everyone's stack. This may, at least for me, be good enough to reconsider Tidewater Minion, if the Isochron experiment bears fruit. Even outside of combo potential, it allows us to constantly recur powerful effects like Mystical Tutor, Brainstorm,Counterspell, Pongify and Boomerang. Scepter can also easily be tutored with Fabricate, Tezerret, and Muddle the mixture quite nicely.
Yes, I'm assuming that Counterbalance is really pulling its weight. I think the last piece that I want to add to round out the package is Scroll Rack. The Rack, Top, Brainstorm, adding the fetches from my recently torn apart Sedris and Tasigur decks, and Mystical Tutor I think will round out the package really well.
I personally have never been impressed with Isochron Scepter. My best friend tries to run it all the time in his many variations of U/U/x decks, and it's never been good for him. He even had Mana Drain under it and still lost to me. My logic is, that by the time you want to be able to cast it and protect it, you would need 4 mana under any circumstance, 3 if you have a 1 CMC counter like Swan Song. The card disadvantage has not really been worth it to me nor has it been worth it to my friend when he's played it, as he at best gets one activation before someone else either destroys it or pulls ahead pretty substantially. I recommend giving it a try though, and see what happens. I've been much more impressed with Counterbalance and the countering I've done there. It seems to average about 2-3 spells per game, which is totally worth it, and even if it only counters one spell in a turn cycle it's created a situation where everyone knows that whatever CMC spell is on top of my library will automatically get countered so they choose not to play certain spells. It's been great for me and gives Trinket Mage some added depth. Tezzeret the Seeker is now a really important card to counter as I can usually get Vedalken Shackles and Sensei's Top before he dies, and sometimes he'll generate absurd amounts of mana for me.
Vendilion Clique has only helped me in one game, but that's because I've only drawn it that one time. Has it continued to shine for you?
I haven't been able to really combo with Vendilion Clique at all. The fact that we have no real creature tutor generally means that I'm only using the Clique once, maybe a couple more times if I have Riptide out. As a card in itself it's not bad. Having the option for hand hate out of color is still something I like.
What I've grown less fond of in the deck is Expedition Map. It's not exactly that it's a bad card, per say, but the two mana investment is sorta...eh, at best, and I've found that even tutoring for Nykthos is only decent at best in my current meta. It's less that it's a bad card, and more that I feel I can do better in that slot. Currently I'm using Pongify in that spot, so I have one more hard removal out.
As for Scepter, at least in my goldfish testing, I actually like it more with something like Impulse, because you're right, people will try to play around counters if they know one is on the board. Granted, it is very possible to counterwar with the Scepter and a counter in hand, but as I see it, losing Impulse, in itself, isn't a significant risk, but having it constantly recurring seems really powerful for digging up other answers. Not that sticking a Counterspell on it doesn't appeal to me, but I think that even using the scepter once or twice has value. I will provide results after playing some actual games, though.
I'm also probably going to cut Mind over Matter. For Sphinx of Last Word if nothing else. Mind over matter is a nice win con, but it's really soft on its own, and it can't be tutored, nor can the creatures it combos with. I can sorta see what you mean by putting it in your deck, then cutting it, rinse, repeat.
Expedition Map isn't pulling its weight? Woah. For me, I almost always get Cavern of Souls. Being able to make my creature base, for the most part, uncounterable is SOOOOOOO good. That has won games for me hands down. Being able to tutor for it with Trinket Mage and then crack it at EOT for the Cavern is a common play of mine that ensures I start the blue supremacy wars early in the game. The big mana with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is a nice perk but not one I actively tutor for.
I think Scepter with Impulse is definitely a better choice. Putting a counterspell or Boomerang screams archenemy even more than playing mono-Blue does. Which isn't by much, heh. Try it out and let me know what you think.
Yeah. Mind Over Matter is just so...soft, great word for it. It's only really good in concert with a handful of cards and can't be tutored for, which is not so good.
I'm going to be getting a Scroll Rack to try out. The Counterbalance synergy and its ability to dig deeper is pretty good and I am also going to be adding a basic fetch land package with Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, and Misty Rainforest to maximize its effectiveness. It looks very promising and has some good synergy in the deck as it stands and can function as a draw spell. I wished I hadn't traded my Scalding Tarns back in the day, but alas, I will carry on.
1x Ætherspouts
1x Arcane Denial
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Brainstorm
1x Capsize
1x Condescend
1x Counterspell
1x Cryptic Command
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Dig Through Time
1x Evacuation
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Foil
1x Forbid
1x Impulse
1x Memory Lapse
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Pact of Negation
1x Rapid Hybridization
1x Reality Shift
1x Spell Crumple
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Riptide Laboratory
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Terrain Generator
26x Snow-Covered Island
1x Aphetto Alchemist
1x Arcanis the Omnipotent
1x Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1x Clever Impersonator
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Magus of the Future
1x Palinchron
1x Patron Wizard
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Trinket Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Caged Sun
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Expedition Map
1x Extraplanar Lens
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Grim Monolith
1x Illusionist's Bracers
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sky Diamond
1x Sol Ring
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Vedalken Shackles
1x Counterbalance
1x Future Sight
1x Mind Over Matter
1x Power Artifact
1x Propaganda
1x Rhystic Study
1x Fabricate
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
So this concept's been done before, but essentially the idea is to protect my board state enough until I can either combo off with infinte mana, or failing that, have enough colored mana to play with to surgically cripple the opponent's board. The deck's debut went pretty well, but as gameplay goes on, I've been running into a few hurdles that I would like some advice on.
Firstly, there are some instances where the deck just runs out of gas. Bad opening hands or the wrong spells being neutralized put me dead in the water. I'm trying to find some ways around this, but as this is my first commander deck, I'm a little at a loss.
Aggro decks are another problem. There are many instances in recent games where if I can't resolve a Propaganda early, that I have some problems pulling through. Cards like Wurmcoil and Batterskull, in part, were meant to help with this, but sometimes they are either not proving enough, or they get answered and leave me back in a very bad position.
Artifact hate, recurring especially, is also a significant problem. One of my friends runs Trigun Predator in his main commander deck, and this card has proved very difficult for me to deal with.
At this point, I'm not sure if it's me playing the deck poorly, or if I'm missing some key polish to have the deck running more smoothly. I mostly play the deck in 3 way games or the occasional 1 on 1. Any feedback is greatly appreciated and will be seriously considered. Thank you
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
Another Memnarch Player in the world! Gasp!
Hey man, props for playing the mechanic madman of destiny. He's pretty awesome and I really like playing him a lot. I'll share a few insights that I have gained as I've played with Memnarch for quite a few years now. Bear with me as I break down a few suggestions.
Batterskull seems really out of place in my opinion. It's a big beater. If you're looking for an answer to aggro, I think there are a few other options that you can consider instead. I think it could easily be replaced with a few cards, which I will suggest at the end of my post here.
I don't like Platinum Emperion. It doesn't win the game and dies to removal pretty easily and doesn't solve your card advantage problems, which I think is more crucial than handling aggro problems.
You definitely have a heavy emphasis on the combo aspect of Memnarch and making infinite mana all the time. I like it. It reminds me of my first few iterations of Memnarch until I settled into my current Control/combo deck. Check out my thread in my signature for a few suggestions or card ideas. I've put together a Primer that I think is pretty comprehensive, but I realize that I didn't really devote as much energy in covering the competitive hyper combo build that your list resembles. Hmm. Back to the drawing board.
Anyways, Vedalken Shackles is great. I highly recommend playing it. I also suggest adding a few more fetchlands, to make your Delve spells a little more practical. All is Dust becomes really good in your build because of your heavy emphasis on artifacts. Wash Out also becomes really good, depending on your meta. The transition that I made in adding an Azami package really pushed away my card advantage problems while also giving me a few chump blockers to survive until I can establish board position and steal the board, and the game, away.
Something I also notice is that you don't have much early game ramp. Consider adding Mind Stone and its ilk so that you can get to the late game faster. How do you like your Arcum Dagsson Package? Does it work for you consistently?
What aggro decks are you facing?
Hope you check out my thread!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
What are your thoughts on cards like Illusionist's Bracers and Rings of Brighthearth--or the transmute cards? Do you think there's enough merit in the combo (or at the very least, reuse of mana rocks and copying Memnarch's ability) to warrant those card slots?
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
As for the Transmute cards, Drift of Phantasms might be better replaced with Intuition or another card draw piece or basically anything else. It does find some pretty awesome cards, but I think it would be better as either of those cards. Vedalken Aethermage (look in a gatherer database) would also be a good addition.
Let me know how Sword of Feast and Famine goes for you. I really like it and it's incredible in my heavy BUG meta, but it's a niche card that can draw way too much attention to you.
Anyways, I really like your list in its current iteration. One other card I would recommend that I'm actually testing out myself is Grand Architect. Even without Pili-Pala for the infinite combo, the fact that it helps me cast Memnarch earlier and makes all my blue creatures mana sources for Memnarch's activated ability is extremely powerful in theory. I can also have my blue dudes tap out for the powerful artifacts in my list while still holding mana for counterspells and responses. I think I will actually add some more of the cards that you have in your list because infinite mana is what I'm trying to go for, not Lab Man wins. That never felt right to me anyways.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Hm. Yeah...now that I'm looking at the card again, you're absolutely right. That's unfortunate. That sorta makes the card a lot worse for this deck. I wonder if it's worth it to replace it with Tidewater Minion, or just to replace it with something completely different.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I'm not sure about Alhammarret's Archive. It's nice, definitely, and makes Azami good (not to mention Arcanis), but it's pretty situational. Still in all, I'll probably test it. One card I have become very fond of in the 5 drop spot, however, is Magus of the Future. I like having the additional Future Sight effect, especially since this deck lacks means to fetch out an enchantment. It's wizard subtype has also been handy for Patron Wizard or Azami triggers.
Another card I'm thinking about is Nevinyrral's Disk, for redundancy with Oblivion Stone. I've been thinking of cutting Tidewater for that, especially given the amount of aggro and midrange decks in my local metagame. The ETB tapped affect sorta worries me, though, as does the inability to protect my board, as opposed to fate counters. Any thoughts on this?
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
1. Get infinite mana
2. Cast commander
3. Win with commander abilities.
I guess it would depend on meta, but I found mono blue harder to work with in my meta so I eventually went to a BUG shell with Tasigur as the wincon, but basically the same formula.
Enter the Infinite with LabMan might be a decent secondary wincon. Depends on how long your games go.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Granted, depending on who's at the table, this may be a decent surprise win-con. However, in my local metagame, if I survive to the late game, I'm usually going to win anyway, so this combo is a little too "win more" to warrant the slots.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
Hey, if Aggro is so predominant in your meta, I don't think you can have too many wrath effects. If it continues to be a problem, consider Aetherize, Aetherspouts, Echoing Truth (if it's token swarms that are doing you in), and Reins of Power in addition to Nevinyrral's Disk. Mono-Blue, I think, has basically two options against aggro: moar control or faster combo. Especially if the wrath of the table is against you, it becomes really hard to win through constant pressure. My meta is so combo-control that I don't really need to worry about the aggro aspect. Spot removal on the bigger creatures, shackling up other people's creatures to make them your blockers, Treachery, Gilded Drake, blocking with Wizards, you just want to survive into the late game. Getting Memnarch into play to begin stealing their dudes might be your first option then, as I normally start stealing a player's mana base if Memnarch lives.
Magus of the Future I've gone back and forth over. It's card advantage, lets you dig deeper into your library than normal, adds redundancy to Sensei's Top, and has overall good synergy with the deck. I just don't know what I would want to cut.
As for secondary win conditions, I think they're pretty superfluous. I always find myself using Memnarch as my finisher, every time. Whether or not I'm going infinite with him or not, the ability to steal permanents is so valuable in the late game. I can basically steal my win condition pretty consistently. And in the rare case that someone Pithing Needles him, I work around that and control the board as best I can. I don't like Enter the Infinite because it's so hella expensive and is a terrible draw in the early and mid game. LabMan is also an unsatisfying win condition. I just don't like him outside of Grixis colors, I find.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
Bribery is a great card. Getting Prophet of Kruphix is usually my number 1 priority with it, but sometimes grabbing the old Ulamog from the Animar player can cause me to win games faster than the Prophet.
I think I'm going to have to forego the Magus of the Future. Every card in my current list has pulled its weight multiple times. The only card I could forsee cutting is Stroke of Genius, since Magus will give me more cards for about the same mana usually. But Stroke is a win con and is an instant. That's basically what it comes down to, really. Card advantage or control advantage...
A really, really fun interaction is Deadeye Navigator and Vendilion Clique. I pulled it off in a 1v1 against an opposing Oona player, and, in short, I won. It's the ultimate feeling of control. And Clique is still really good against those opposing combo control players while still having definite power to deter attackers if needed. Thoughts?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
Dude. Did you see the new Sphinx? It's a strong consideration for auto-include in our decks. Definitely. I am itching to pre-order that guy. The only thing comparable to it is Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, and to have 2 of those effects in a deck seems really strong, especially the Sphinx's uncounterability and shroud. The only way to kill it is with a wrath or mass bounce effect, which is exactly what I'm looking for.
Sword of Feast and Famine is always great in my playgroup. There's always someone with green and to be able to block Animar with a Sworded up Trinket Mage is pretty awesome. I understand if it doesn't make the cut though.
Your list looks very streamlined at this point. I think the only real differences in our lists come down to meta preferences and perhaps card availability. I like what I see and I bet you're getting the mono-Blue Archenemy feel. How are your mass removal effects Aetherize and Aetherspouts working for you?
EDIT: Counterbalance. Intersting inclusion, especially since you don't run any fetch lands. How has it been for you? Having a free counter seems pretty strong, and it makes Top that much more useful. I had it in my Nicol Bolas control deck, and it was great to counter things for 1. I've often thought of including it again.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Aetherize and Aetherspouts have been handy purely for the redundancy in some matchups. I typically only need to pop such mass creature removal once or twice, but having that effect on four cards pretty much means I'll get one provided I'm not drawing utterly dead. Aetherize in particular has been a lifesaver due to the four mana CMC as opposed to 5+.
Sphinx of the Final Word looks pretty solid, and makes it very hard to lose the counter war--almost impossible due the hexproof. That's something I'm not sure what to cut for, especially given it's high CMC. I'd almost say I'd cut sword for it, but that might be a good sword target in itself for certain matchups due to the evasion and hexproof. It's something I certainly need to figure out, because you're right. That card looks nuts.
The lack of fetchlands for Counterbalance can be unfortunate, especially if my top three cards are completely useless. I haven't drawn it often for one reason or another, but I've found when I do get it, it can be a very strong force and makes the full use out of Sensei's Divining Top. In my local meta, having free counter effects is always very helpful due to how often I've become the "archenemy", and it's imperative that I have a constant answer. Combine that with the simple fact that I can also use things like Brainstorm, or even Azami to dig in an extra card, and it's been a lifesaver.
Edit: It occurred to me. I'm not sure if this would ever actually come up in a game, but if necessary, wouldn't the use of Vendilion Clique also sculpt our own hand, if we're differ for some manner of combo piece? It may not be practical, but the option may be useful if you absolutely need an answer that turn.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
How is Mind Over Matter? It didn't quite get me the infinite mana that I'm trying to go for and I never have Azami or Arcanis in play/hand when I draw it. And I really like having cards in hand rather than pitching them, but it's definitely been useful to me in the past.
Counterbalance countered a Pact of Negation once by flipping over a land. It was sweet! It definitely has its perks and Grixis was the best deck for it with as many top of deck tutors that it was running (Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Lim-Dul's Vault, etc.). Let me know how it goes. Memnarch players unite to take over the meta game!
As for the Sphinx of Winning the Control Match up, maybe Teferi will be replaced. Maybe. Teferi stops Storm decks, I think. At least the way it was explained to me, he does, and there's a potent Azami storm deck in my meta.
Keep on mechanizing all the things into your control!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
If I had money I would play with using Jace, The Mind Sculptor in this deck. It has recurring dig effects, and the ability to sorcery speed brainstorm constantly can help control what's on the deck for counterbalance. Combined with Sensei's Divining Top, and we have a pretty good amount of cards we can manipulate to the top. I may playtest in on Cockatrice to see if it at least works.
As for Mind Over Matter...I rarely draw it. I've gotten it three times, in fact. I've had better luck getting Azami or Arcanis out. If you can untap with Arcanis or play Azami at any point after it's out, you more or less win. It might be a card I'm more likely to cut for Sphinx, though, given both have high CMCs. Mind over Matter is something that will give you a very strong chance of winning if you combo with it. Sphinx is something that will give you a strong chance of winning the control matchup. I think the application sorta boils down to which role you want to fill.
Is Mind Over Matter good? Absolutely. However, it's weak in a vacuum, and both combo pieces are elements we cannot directly tutor. I may liken it, in this sense, to a less vulnerable Pili-Pala in terms of its applications.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
I agree about the Teferi redundancy. There is so much control in my meta as well that being able to have a second card that says "I win your counter wars" will be a welcome addition to the deck. Too bad it's not a wizard too...
I go back and forth with Mind Over Matter all the time. It's hard to tutor for, sorcery speed, and requires card disadvantage and is terrible in a vaccuum. But, then again, it's a combo piece that also has additional utility in tapping things down during the upkeep in case you need that dude tapped or that Gaea's Cradle handled. I find myself taking it out and then putting it back in on a bi monthly basis, depending on my mood at the time.
I've never been a fan of Jace. I had it in my BUG deck when it first came out, and it would just die to random dudes way too frequently, and having a brainstorm for 4 mana hasn't really been good. If you think you'll have better use of it, then test it. The games in which I had him he was a waste. But in the 1v1 games I played with him, Jace resolved = win.
Your list has evolved quite a bit, I must say, and I really admire what it's become. I think that you have redundancy in all the areas that there need to be redundancies in and each card has great application. I find myself considering certain cards now because they appear in your list. A good decklist builds credibility. Would you include Snapcaster Mage if you could? How has Foil been for you?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Foil is a card I love to see in the mid or late game. Early game, the card disadvantage can be prohibitive outside of very niche situations. As a rule, I like to keep it in reserve for the situations where winning the counter war can either decide the game, or give me a significant advantage (such as protecting an early cast of Consecrated Sphinx/Arcanis the Omnipotent). That said, it's one of the last cards I can take out, because a free counterspell is so powerful and can mess up anyone's plans.
My thoughts with JMS is honestly not just to spam Brainstorm every turn--although it's very well tempting--but also make use of his unsummon so I can keep him from getting killed, and maybe occasionally using the +2. Being able to take a Commander out of the picture seems very strong, especially with the amount of counterspells being used.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
Force of Will > Foil, but of course you know that so I imagine that getting a Force is on the to do list at some point.
I tried Counterbalance in my deck, based on prior experience and it showing up in your list, and it was ridiculously awesome. I countered 5 spells with it in my 3rd game of the evening and it was really powerful. For a more descriptive game report, check out my most recent post in my Memnarch Primer. I played against a supra fast Damia deck and I think I want to trim my deck down and add some more, faster mana as well as some cheaper removal spells. Gilded Drake, Pongify, Rapid Hybridization are the ones I'm considering for cheaper removal and I want to get Mana Crypt in here. All is Dust hasn't been performing well and hasn't been a card I want to see in many of my games, so I think it's going to finally get the cut for good. How can we beat faster combo decks? The best ways, that I've found, are to play more removal, faster mana, or mana denial on them. Do you think there are ways to incorporate more of these elements in our deck? Back to Basics is hard to tutor for but can be really powerful when timed correctly, but it might be too slow.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Counterbalance really put up its weight in gold in my last session, where even blind it stopped three threats. It's much better with top, but having a recurring counter effect for free is simply amazing.
Speaking of recurring counters, I thought of a potential control tech that can also double up as a win con: Isochron Scepter. With infinite colorless mana using Aphetto Alchemist, we have a complete lock on everyone's stack. This may, at least for me, be good enough to reconsider Tidewater Minion, if the Isochron experiment bears fruit. Even outside of combo potential, it allows us to constantly recur powerful effects like Mystical Tutor, Brainstorm,Counterspell, Pongify and Boomerang. Scepter can also easily be tutored with Fabricate, Tezerret, and Muddle the mixture quite nicely.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
I personally have never been impressed with Isochron Scepter. My best friend tries to run it all the time in his many variations of U/U/x decks, and it's never been good for him. He even had Mana Drain under it and still lost to me. My logic is, that by the time you want to be able to cast it and protect it, you would need 4 mana under any circumstance, 3 if you have a 1 CMC counter like Swan Song. The card disadvantage has not really been worth it to me nor has it been worth it to my friend when he's played it, as he at best gets one activation before someone else either destroys it or pulls ahead pretty substantially. I recommend giving it a try though, and see what happens. I've been much more impressed with Counterbalance and the countering I've done there. It seems to average about 2-3 spells per game, which is totally worth it, and even if it only counters one spell in a turn cycle it's created a situation where everyone knows that whatever CMC spell is on top of my library will automatically get countered so they choose not to play certain spells. It's been great for me and gives Trinket Mage some added depth. Tezzeret the Seeker is now a really important card to counter as I can usually get Vedalken Shackles and Sensei's Top before he dies, and sometimes he'll generate absurd amounts of mana for me.
Vendilion Clique has only helped me in one game, but that's because I've only drawn it that one time. Has it continued to shine for you?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
What I've grown less fond of in the deck is Expedition Map. It's not exactly that it's a bad card, per say, but the two mana investment is sorta...eh, at best, and I've found that even tutoring for Nykthos is only decent at best in my current meta. It's less that it's a bad card, and more that I feel I can do better in that slot. Currently I'm using Pongify in that spot, so I have one more hard removal out.
As for Scepter, at least in my goldfish testing, I actually like it more with something like Impulse, because you're right, people will try to play around counters if they know one is on the board. Granted, it is very possible to counterwar with the Scepter and a counter in hand, but as I see it, losing Impulse, in itself, isn't a significant risk, but having it constantly recurring seems really powerful for digging up other answers. Not that sticking a Counterspell on it doesn't appeal to me, but I think that even using the scepter once or twice has value. I will provide results after playing some actual games, though.
I'm also probably going to cut Mind over Matter. For Sphinx of Last Word if nothing else. Mind over matter is a nice win con, but it's really soft on its own, and it can't be tutored, nor can the creatures it combos with. I can sorta see what you mean by putting it in your deck, then cutting it, rinse, repeat.
U Memnarch
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted
I think Scepter with Impulse is definitely a better choice. Putting a counterspell or Boomerang screams archenemy even more than playing mono-Blue does. Which isn't by much, heh. Try it out and let me know what you think.
Yeah. Mind Over Matter is just so...soft, great word for it. It's only really good in concert with a handful of cards and can't be tutored for, which is not so good.
I'm going to be getting a Scroll Rack to try out. The Counterbalance synergy and its ability to dig deeper is pretty good and I am also going to be adding a basic fetch land package with Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, and Misty Rainforest to maximize its effectiveness. It looks very promising and has some good synergy in the deck as it stands and can function as a draw spell. I wished I hadn't traded my Scalding Tarns back in the day, but alas, I will carry on.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Essentially free slots for yet another way to win.