I think I read through everything fairly thoroughly, but I didn't see any mention on the exclusion or inclusion of Massive Raid. Thoughts?
Massive Raid was on a very, very early version of this list (before the primer). As I'm not looking at the 'back to basics', I'm going to figure out where I could slot it in again.
My mistake btw, I misread Volley Veteran and realized it only targets creatures...so sad, cause I was so excited to see Goblin War Strike on a creature.
Hey Jay13x I'd just like to say that I really enjoy the playstyle of this deck. I've seen a lot of Krenko decks that feel too aggro for me and some that have too much combo and lose that tribal goblin feel.
Yeah, I'm angling back toward the original feel of the deck after going a little too corner case combo heavy.
I made my own first EDH deck just a while back (I started playing in Dominaria) before I discovered this primer. So I was wondering what your thoughts are on swapping Gamble for Sensation Gorger for budget reasons?
I was also curious what your current thoughts are on Arms Dealer and Gempalm incinerator do you think they are suitable when if you're trying to up the goblin count to 30 or if they're staying on the shelf?
Most of what you'll be killing with these cards will be power 4 or less. For instance, Gempalm can kill Linvala or other utility creatures (excepting creatures with protection from Gempalm's colors/types). Arms Dealer can always sacrifice himself for damage. They're useful to get around counterspells and various other tricks.
IN:Legion Warboss
Legion Warboss is definitely the stand out goblin card of Guilds of Ravnica. A sort-of fixed Goblin Rabblemaster that only requires the token to attack, it provides token fuel for all the engines of the deck and is great with Krenko, but also helps fuel to cast Krenko and your bigger spells in the late game. Repeatable goblin token production can't be passed up, here. Remember: you can tap Krenko to count that little guy and sacrifice it all before it ever has to attack.
Massive Raid
Massive Raid is potentially a win con, but more than likely it'll just be more removal for this deck, which I found it needed.
Hordeling Outburst
I'm not sure why I was sleeping on this card, but three goblins for three mana is nothing to sneeze at. It can easily jump start any of the engines this deck sets up.
OUT:Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
If you've been following the last few updates, I've been angling this way for a while. Kiki-Jiki pushes for play styles that didn't really line up for what I was going for with this deck. All the combos are still listed under 'Cut Combos' in the primer if you want to go that route, but I never found a situation where I really wanted to cast Kiki-Jiki except when I had all the other combo pieces in play. It's a lot of risk to bet so much on one card.
Hammer of Purphoros
I have enough haste enablers in this deck at this point that I found myself never really using the Hammer. I may re-evaluate in the future if I find myself struggling for haste enablers again. Also I got tired of carrying around the golem tokens just in case, lol.
Helm of the Host
A nine mana investment for something that other players will rarely allow just isn't worth it. I really wanted to like this card more (who doesn't want more Krenko?), but it just didn't do what I wanted it to. As part of my efforts to bring this deck back to basics, I get more value out of Hordeling Outburst than I would with this card.
I'm currently playing with Arms Dealer as a Lightning Crafter replacement but I was wondering if you consider Lightning Crafter to be the stronger of the two? If so I'd gladly hear your reasoning.
To be honest I had forgotten Arms Dealer wasn't in the deck anymore. I'd have to play around and see, but Lightning Crafter benefits from all the untap engine stuff still in the deck while Arms Dealer doesn't.
Any more updates? I did not see mention of Goblin Wizard and Goblin Goliath. Did you consider those for this deck? And then their is the new krenko commander who could come in as well.
Any more updates? I did not see mention of Goblin Wizard and Goblin Goliath. Did you consider those for this deck? And then their is the new krenko commander who could come in as well.
Goblin Wizard isn't necessary, as there is rarely a time when I can't afford to just cast a goblin in my hand, and Goblin Goliath is too expensive for what it does.
I skipped over Ravnica Allegiance because there were no cards of note for this deck. WAR, however, brings up Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin! Krenko 2.0 doesn't disappoint, but he's not so exciting to replace the original as the leader of this deck.
Finding a place to slot Krenko 2.0 in was a challenge, I'll admit. There are so few good 2 drops that I didn't want to replace one of them, and almost every card of 4cmc or higher wasn't something I could easily cut, which left replacing another 3 drop. In the end I picked Hordeling Outburst for a number of reasons. The sorcery is handy, but it's still only a sorcery, and an actual tutorable goblin was preferable to me. Add to that Krenko 2.0 creating three goblins in the worst case (and frequently MANY more), it was a pretty easy swap.
Hey Jay13x. Been following the updates on your list for a while now. I’m thankful for your insights as you continue to update the deck. For my deck, I closely follow your primer with the exception of paradox engine as I didn’t get that card prior to it spiking very hard. Changed it to Goblin Lackey since I had that card already in my pool. Actually collected goblins since I used to play legacy, but there’s no legacy playgroup anymore where I’m from.
Just wanted to say thanks so much for your insights as I try to learn the deck better everytime I play. This deck really feels like a red edh toolbox with goblins in the mix.
What are your thoughts on this card in 99 for Krenko?
He's 100% going to have a place in the deck, I just don't know where yet. A second Boggart Shenanigans that can hit creatures is too good to pass up. The second ability is just icing, a nice mana sink if needed.
I'm not sure what he'll be replacing yet, though, but I will by the time the set comes out. Cheering Fanatic is a potential cut. It's less useful than it first appeared. I've been eyeing Blood Moon to be cut for a while, too. It doesn't do much but piss off the table even more and once in a blue moon make Mountainwalk more useful. Pashalik Mons is another potential win-con in the deck, which takes priority.
What are your thoughts on this card in 99 for Krenko?
He's 100% going to have a place in the deck, I just don't know where yet. A second Boggart Shenanigans that can hit creatures is too good to pass up. The second ability is just icing, a nice mana sink if needed.
I'm not sure what he'll be replacing yet, though, but I will by the time the set comes out. Cheering Fanatic is a potential cut. It's less useful than it first appeared. I've been eyeing Blood Moon to be cut for a while, too. It doesn't do much but piss off the table even more and once in a blue moon make Mountainwalk more useful. Pashalik Mons is another potential win-con in the deck, which takes priority.
Yeah I thought of Boggart Shenanigans when I saw his trigger. I actually haven't used Cheering Fanatic ever look useful but generally I'd rather play something else. I like Blood Moon as a tax-y effect, but I can see your point of it being hated of the table asap.
Also kudo's for you sir! I have most of the cards myself (oh Cavern of Souls why aret thou so expensive) and I really love play Krenko!
What about putting in Eldrazi Monument to add the flying. While not as powerful as Coat of Arms, it does offer Flying and indestructable.
From playing a Krenko deck myself, I've found that I'm not attacking that much and more combo-ing out or winning with Burn at the Stake. Whilst monument is a great card and indestructible is nothing to sneeze at, it's more suited in decks that favor going wide and attacking (with cards like Triumph of the Hordes). But by all means put in a Krenko deck and smack people with it, it's still a great card!
What about putting in Eldrazi Monument to add the flying. While not as powerful as Coat of Arms, it does offer Flying and indestructable.
From playing a Krenko deck myself, I've found that I'm not attacking that much and more combo-ing out or winning with Burn at the Stake. Whilst monument is a great card and indestructible is nothing to sneeze at, it's more suited in decks that favor going wide and attacking (with cards like Triumph of the Hordes). But by all means put in a Krenko deck and smack people with it, it's still a great card!
Essentially this, if you're looking to go more aggro, it's an A+ card.
You can see discussion for Pashalik Mons above this post. A second Boggart Shenanigans is very handy, and his second ability, while not incredibly useful in this deck, is a handy mana sink and goblin token source for those dead turns.
Speaking of dead turns, Tectonic Reformation is an incredibly powerful card in a deck like this. After the fifth or six mountain, there's a significant amount of diminishing returns on future land drops. Having a way to cycle every land you don't need is very useful, and with the mana curve in this deck, at six lands you should be able to cast whatever you cycle for.
Cheering Fanatic is out because, frankly, it's just not as useful as I thought it would be. Blood Moon makes me an early game target, and is frequently a budget cut from this deck anyway.
Two core 2020 cards look interesting in red, Daggersail Aeronaut (flying) and Cavalier of Flame which would pair well with Techtonic Reformation when it dies, though high mana cost.
Eldrazi Monument combined with Battle Squadron makes a great flyer. Mana Echos thrown in give this all the juice to win with a nice direct attack. The math on Mana Echos can set people off when you have a lot of Goblins out. People tried to get into the stack and interrupt it as well. Fun times
Every Friday I get together with an EDH group and one of the people plays Animar with a turn 5 wincon of some sort. Krenko has beaten him once or twice. I have Chaos Warp. Anything else to slow him down? I'm typically one turn away from winning.
Aether Flash - would kill all the goblins- no go stranglehold - seems useable manabarbs - bad for krenko - or is it if you are using goblins for mana?
Hi Jay13x. With the new commander card, Dockside extortionist being a red ramp on its own (which red rarely gets, especially for krenko (since we can tutor for it using Goblin Matron or Goblin Recruiter), would you add it? What cards would you remove to slot it if ever?
Eldrazi Monument combined with Battle Squadron makes a great flyer. Mana Echos thrown in give this all the juice to win with a nice direct attack. The math on Mana Echos can set people off when you have a lot of Goblins out. People tried to get into the stack and interrupt it as well. Fun times
I had Eldrazi Monument in early builds of the deck, but it turned me into a more apparent threat than I wanted people to realize at the time. If it works for your Meta, go for it.
Every Friday I get together with an EDH group and one of the people plays Animar with a turn 5 wincon of some sort. Krenko has beaten him once or twice. I have Chaos Warp. Anything else to slow him down? I'm typically one turn away from winning.
Aether Flash - would kill all the goblins- no go stranglehold - seems useable manabarbs - bad for krenko - or is it if you are using goblins for mana?
Manabarbs is fine in Krenko, it only affects a player tapping for mana, and you'll probably have fewer lands and be tapping them less than other players.
Hi Jay13x. With the new commander card, Dockside extortionist being a red ramp on its own (which red rarely gets, especially for krenko (since we can tutor for it using Goblin Matron or Goblin Recruiter), would you add it? What cards would you remove to slot it if ever?
Thanks!
It might replace my Sol Ring but I'd need to do some playtesting.
Out:Sol Ring - It's just such a boring card, and is really only here for an occasional Turn 2 Krenko.
In:Dockside Extortionist - This card is tutorable in this deck and way more fun. Better ramp for the late game come back, which this deck needs more than an occasional early start.
It could! Volley Veteran didn't make the initial cut, but it's on the list to figure out a space for.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
There's nothing wrong with that!
Most of what you'll be killing with these cards will be power 4 or less. For instance, Gempalm can kill Linvala or other utility creatures (excepting creatures with protection from Gempalm's colors/types). Arms Dealer can always sacrifice himself for damage. They're useful to get around counterspells and various other tricks.
Aaaaaah. This is what happens over the course of over a dozen revisions. I need to update the list anyway. I'll fix it now.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
IN: Legion Warboss
Legion Warboss is definitely the stand out goblin card of Guilds of Ravnica. A sort-of fixed Goblin Rabblemaster that only requires the token to attack, it provides token fuel for all the engines of the deck and is great with Krenko, but also helps fuel to cast Krenko and your bigger spells in the late game. Repeatable goblin token production can't be passed up, here. Remember: you can tap Krenko to count that little guy and sacrifice it all before it ever has to attack.
Massive Raid
Massive Raid is potentially a win con, but more than likely it'll just be more removal for this deck, which I found it needed.
Hordeling Outburst
I'm not sure why I was sleeping on this card, but three goblins for three mana is nothing to sneeze at. It can easily jump start any of the engines this deck sets up.
OUT: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
If you've been following the last few updates, I've been angling this way for a while. Kiki-Jiki pushes for play styles that didn't really line up for what I was going for with this deck. All the combos are still listed under 'Cut Combos' in the primer if you want to go that route, but I never found a situation where I really wanted to cast Kiki-Jiki except when I had all the other combo pieces in play. It's a lot of risk to bet so much on one card.
Hammer of Purphoros
I have enough haste enablers in this deck at this point that I found myself never really using the Hammer. I may re-evaluate in the future if I find myself struggling for haste enablers again. Also I got tired of carrying around the golem tokens just in case, lol.
Helm of the Host
A nine mana investment for something that other players will rarely allow just isn't worth it. I really wanted to like this card more (who doesn't want more Krenko?), but it just didn't do what I wanted it to. As part of my efforts to bring this deck back to basics, I get more value out of Hordeling Outburst than I would with this card.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin will be added once I actually get my hands on the card.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I skipped over Ravnica Allegiance because there were no cards of note for this deck. WAR, however, brings up Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin! Krenko 2.0 doesn't disappoint, but he's not so exciting to replace the original as the leader of this deck.
IN: Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin
OUT: Hordeling Outburst
Finding a place to slot Krenko 2.0 in was a challenge, I'll admit. There are so few good 2 drops that I didn't want to replace one of them, and almost every card of 4cmc or higher wasn't something I could easily cut, which left replacing another 3 drop. In the end I picked Hordeling Outburst for a number of reasons. The sorcery is handy, but it's still only a sorcery, and an actual tutorable goblin was preferable to me. Add to that Krenko 2.0 creating three goblins in the worst case (and frequently MANY more), it was a pretty easy swap.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Just wanted to say thanks so much for your insights as I try to learn the deck better everytime I play. This deck really feels like a red edh toolbox with goblins in the mix.
A Blood Artist-esque trigger seems very good with Goblin Bombarbement and Boggart Shenanigans.
His activated ability:3R and saccing and netting a goblin in the proces, isn't to bad either.
What are your thoughts on this card in 99 for Krenko?
I'm not sure what he'll be replacing yet, though, but I will by the time the set comes out. Cheering Fanatic is a potential cut. It's less useful than it first appeared. I've been eyeing Blood Moon to be cut for a while, too. It doesn't do much but piss off the table even more and once in a blue moon make Mountainwalk more useful. Pashalik Mons is another potential win-con in the deck, which takes priority.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Yeah I thought of Boggart Shenanigans when I saw his trigger. I actually haven't used Cheering Fanatic ever look useful but generally I'd rather play something else. I like Blood Moon as a tax-y effect, but I can see your point of it being hated of the table asap.
Also kudo's for you sir! I have most of the cards myself (oh Cavern of Souls why aret thou so expensive) and I really love play Krenko!
From playing a Krenko deck myself, I've found that I'm not attacking that much and more combo-ing out or winning with Burn at the Stake. Whilst monument is a great card and indestructible is nothing to sneeze at, it's more suited in decks that favor going wide and attacking (with cards like Triumph of the Hordes). But by all means put in a Krenko deck and smack people with it, it's still a great card!
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
IN: Pashalik Mons, Tectonic Reformation
OUT: Blood Moon, Cheering Fanatic
You can see discussion for Pashalik Mons above this post. A second Boggart Shenanigans is very handy, and his second ability, while not incredibly useful in this deck, is a handy mana sink and goblin token source for those dead turns.
Speaking of dead turns, Tectonic Reformation is an incredibly powerful card in a deck like this. After the fifth or six mountain, there's a significant amount of diminishing returns on future land drops. Having a way to cycle every land you don't need is very useful, and with the mana curve in this deck, at six lands you should be able to cast whatever you cycle for.
Cheering Fanatic is out because, frankly, it's just not as useful as I thought it would be. Blood Moon makes me an early game target, and is frequently a budget cut from this deck anyway.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
IN: Blood Moon
OUT: Paradox Engine
It's time to say goodbye. I'm swapping Blood Moon back in for Paradox Engine until something more interesting comes along.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Aether Flash - would kill all the goblins- no go
stranglehold - seems useable
manabarbs - bad for krenko - or is it if you are using goblins for mana?
Thanks!
Manabarbs is fine in Krenko, it only affects a player tapping for mana, and you'll probably have fewer lands and be tapping them less than other players.
If you want to slow down an Animar player:
It might replace my Sol Ring but I'd need to do some playtesting.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Out: Sol Ring - It's just such a boring card, and is really only here for an occasional Turn 2 Krenko.
In: Dockside Extortionist - This card is tutorable in this deck and way more fun. Better ramp for the late game come back, which this deck needs more than an occasional early start.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath