Like I said the biggest problem is going to be blue decks that can fish game winning lines faster. Once I can decide which cards are weakest and get the deck to flow properly my last step will be removing those cards for relivant control but that will not be a large number of slots so they will be important while grave hate would help against reanimator it won't help against other builds like I said it wishes it could run a few blue counters etc but it can't I'll give it some thought this is part of the reason I do not want to add more back end fish cards right now as its fishing fine and by the end it will run a few more control slots a cannot decide which like I told mcr on skype the other day I wish I could just run a few more redblasts lol.
Abrupt Decay, Reclamation Sage, Ancient Grudge, and some kind of answer to HD seem like a start for interaction. Choke and company seem like our best way of interacting with fast blue decks - all of my other ideas hurt Aurora Prossh as much as the others.
No DRS seems like an oversight. There is a Birds of Paradise in the list, we play 9 fetches and our opponents will also usually be playing 9 fetches (7 for 2 color). So it'll be very rare that it doesn't tap for mana. It also disrupts graveyard decks without taking up a slot as dedicated graveyard interaction - poorly, I admit, but it is better then nothing.
Edit: Also can't be Clamped which is a very noticeable downside.
Edit2: Why did you cut it from your initial list? I just saw your comment on the first page that you took it out.
I don't really want to play a lot of control slots I'm thinking maybe 2-3 more total and i want versatile answers REB is much more versatile than glutteral response for example. DRS would primarily be a dork slot and I honestly don't want many dorks and it's an inconsistent dork that is not really grave hate at all. In fact in fairly certain I want 1 of my 2-3 control cards to be pernicious deed so I very much want to be sure the other card/s I add are correct so I want to do more testing on the core to find the correct cuts first.
I fished this deck another dozen times last night. I think experience makes a huge difference. I no longer ran into the mana issues that I talked about earlier, but big draws were also much better. There are a lot of creative interactions in here that would take hundreds of fished hands to truly master. I never really thought of Crucible as a great card in EDH, but it gets a ton of value in this deck, and I was surprised at the number of interactions it offered.
@moxnix
If you're looking for cards to cut, I think Saproling Symbiosis is definitely cuttable. I've been fishing the deck without it (Coalition Relic in its place) and if you're really looking for more control slots, that's probably cuttable. Another inclusion I'm not too sure of is Helm of Awakening. I would consider that very much a back end card, and if you're going off, another untap or Cradle effect would net about the same value (Candelabra of Tawnos, Battle Hymn). Helm is good cause you'll usually net several mana off of it while you're going off, but I think the real reason you put it in your other storm decks is cause it enables Future Sight / Top infinites, and not necessarily just for the ramp. It also has limited use early on, which was one of the criteria you mentioned for cutting a card. I might be completely wrong, but just food for thought.
As for control cards, yes I think Pernicious Deed is very good for this deck. If you're looking for more value, Artifact Mutation is also an interesting choice.
Artifact mutation is indeed interesting it has the hurks recall feel where it can be used offensive and defensibly though not as extreme it always does both which is pretty awesome. i do think everyone undervalues symbiosis I just recorded the game i just played live and kept my hand just because it had symbiosis to show it off while its not an early game card and cost 4 that's not a bad thing its a card that functions as a ritual and a draw spell later in the game in many cases and when your untapping cradle its no small ritual. I will upload the games I play today.
I do agree that Symbiosis can push you to ridiculous new levels in terms of mana and cards, but I've fished all my games without it and have been fine. I guess that's what I'm really trying to say, since you were looking for cuts and you were the first one to say you wanted to cut it haha. It helps you push into excess instead of being part of a leaner package - it isn't a business spell nor a ramp spell, it's just one that amplifies the former two (although by a tremendous amount).
I just had a interesting game that ill upload where I "punt" instantly realizing my missed line i was quite upset... well they suck i still win the next turn but i tutor symbiosis at the end of chain for no apparent reason with only 3 dudes in play when i had a line to drop like 20+ goblins off empty and yawgwin back TGA but i was playing really fast and not even doing math i probably had multiple lines ironically unless i wanted to go through a giant storm chain it would have probably ended up being my kill spell after god of the forge as the empty would have got eating by yawgwin though tendrisl would have should been no problem drawing more than 30 cards off tga though i couldnt double tendrils with the yawgwin online though i could have simply god of the forge tokens > tendrils but its a nice saftey net in that it does provide a huge boost to chains sewing them together so to speak. i think ill play 1-2 more games then upload the 4-5 games i played today
Thoughts on Life from the Loam here? It kind of draws and kind of protects the Cradle, and does a much better job of sticking around then the Crucible does (In the sense that it recurs itself). At worst it gives us another piece of insurance vs land destruction strategies.
Edit: Seedtime is not really an effect we're looking for... but Time Walk is a pretty good card.
Personally I've loved Symbiosis but then again I've been tutoring more often for earthcraft than most other cards, I try to make sure I have all the basics early now, I even put back in cultivate/reach.
Do you guys feel that hermit and emrakul's hatcher do enough work? I've been pretty much ignoring them the entire time
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
They have been good for me so far having body's other than Prosh makes us less soft to board whipes and a always Turing cradle and our other creatures matter cards pre Prosh is always welcome. While they don't make the 7 body's Prossh does they are adequate replacements I will admit the great auroa being bugged on mtgo may skew A large portion of my testing ( it's a horrible bug not only can you not send Prosh to the command zone but you can draw into your tokens ...) knowing mtgo a history it will probably never be fixed I reported it instantly but thier programmers are completely incompetent. Either way I do value the "mini Prosh" dudes I have Been crushing with the deck. Not only have I gone unbeaten over the past couple days on mtgo but the last time I played in paper azami and she cancelled each other out so well I was able to win more than anyone in the pod that session though I suspect this may change as they start to respect the non blue deck more in the future though they seemed content to Blake each other at the time though all they really did was counter each other once early but that's all I really needed.
They have been good for me so far having body's other than Prosh makes us less soft to board whipes and a always Turing cradle and our other creatures matter cards pre Prosh is always welcome. While they don't make the 7 body's Prossh does they are adequate replacements I will admit the great auroa being bugged on mtgo may skew A large portion of my testing ( it's a horrible bug not only can you not send Prosh to the command zone but you can draw into your tokens ...) knowing mtgo a history it will probably never be fixed I reported it instantly but thier programmers are completely incompetent. Either way I do value the "mini Prosh" dudes I have Been crushing with the deck. Not only have I gone unbeaten over the past couple days on mtgo but the last time I played in paper azami and she cancelled each other out so well I was able to win more than anyone in the pod that session though I suspect this may change as they start to respect the non blue deck more in the future though they seemed content to Blake each other at the time though all they really did was counter each other once early but that's all I really needed.
What, you don't run a Kobolds of Kher Keep maindeck? They're a staple Jund EDH card, 0/1 for 0 so good That's such a *****ty bug lol, that would make me rage so hard the first time it happened.
Re: Other token producers - Are we playing them because they make a burst of tokens, or are they backup for Prossh? Should we maybe run cheaper token makers that produce less tokens instead of the 5drops? How good have they actually been for you if you ignore that Aurora bug?
Finally had a chance to go through the deck instead of just glancing through it. Some suggestions for consideration
Faithless Looting - I'd be interested to hear why you aren't playing this, it's really good in non blue decks seems like this type of deck especially. I play it in U/R storm and it's great at smoothing out early draws while filling your graveyard for late game Yawgwin (or in my case Past in Flames). Even Tormenting Voice is something I frequently play and that's much worse but still a solid card.
Insidious Dreams - Seems I always recommend this card to you and you never try it. It probably wins the game if it isn't countered, easy on the mana and is an instant. We've never agreed on this card but I think it's amazing and this is the perfect type of deck to run it in.
Saproling Burst - No idea if it's good or not but you get 7 permanents and 6 are creatures out of the deal. Probably much better than Emrakul's Hatcher or Deranged Hermit if that's what you're going for. It actually produces mana if you have Earthcraft so that's cool.
Sylvan Ranger - I've been thinking more about this card and I still think it's an easy cut. Even with needing basics for earthcraft and having a body I don't feel this card does enough and would rather play something that helped me dig to a card that was better.
Do you need as many of the large draw spells as you run? I would guess you could get by without Collective Unconscious. Also maybe I'm missing something do you like Increasing Ambition because it's not color intensive so you can us it as multiple tutors when you go off? It seems too expensive early on and not needed late game but again I could be misunderstanding it's purpose.
Also maybe I'm missing something do you like Increasing Ambition because it's not color intensive so you can us it as multiple tutors when you go off? It seems too expensive early on and not needed late game but again I could be misunderstanding it's purpose.
Not addressed to me, but since I'm playing a similar version, maybe my feedback would help.
Going off is much smoother with that card in hand. I've occasionally tutored for it when I've had far too much mana. There is a lot of value in Rude Awakening > flashback Increasing Ambition to fuel the combo further, or to end with Purphoros/Empty the Warrens where storm count's appropriate. It can definitely be superfluous at times, but the redundancy it offers is very important with certain hands. I think it's been very useful for me.
Looks awesome, sadly don't have the money for cradle
However, just want to stop by and give some suggestions of cards that worked well in my meta. Autumn's Veil-Like Pyrobalst or REB, but green and proactive Bosium Strip- This is weird, but if used right it can act as a pseudo Past in Flames (probably not good in a more developed meta) Bubbling Muck- A high tide for swamps that can become crazy with Urborg in play... done lots of work for me!
Looks awesome, sadly don't have the money for cradle
However, just want to stop by and give some suggestions of cards that worked well in my meta. Autumn's Veil-Like Pyrobalst or REB, but green and proactive Bosium Strip- This is weird, but if used right it can act as a pseudo Past in Flames (probably not good in a more developed meta) Bubbling Muck- A high tide for swamps that can become crazy with Urborg in play... done lots of work for me!
Autumn's Veil really does not do enough, REB and Pyroblast are here because they can also destroy blue permanents, Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study are very commonly played and usually screw storm decks.
Bosium Strip is okay, but its too much mana and is only 1 shot.
Bubbling Muck has been suggested many times over many threads, but Mox just don't like it, not sure why, but he won't use it. Must be bad voodoo.
I fished this deck more over the past weekend and was pretty happy with it. Here are some +/- as well as a few points of overall feedback:
Deranged Hermit/Emrakul's Hatcher and Saproling Burst
I haven't played any real matches, but these cards are lackluster while setting up or going off. Saproling Burst is a great card because it can still net you mana mid-combo, assuming you have a Cradle tap to spare. 5 mana for 7 creatures is extremely powerful, and I think this card should be an auto-include in here. I've cut the Hermit and Hatcher for now, but will probably end up re-adding them in the future as needed.
Helm of Awakening
Maybe I don't play the deck the same way, but I feel like this card's usefulness isn't maximized here. There's no Future Sight/Top combo, and most of the time when you're going off, you have way more mana than you'll ever need. I would probably put this in the same bucket as Saproling Symbiosis, but honestly, this doesn't help you get over the "hump" that moxnix kept mentioning - it's only good once you're already going off. At that point, I'd rather just play a card like Battle Hymn or Candelabra of Tawnos.
Sylvan Ranger
I think the body value is slightly overstated here. We want real ramp still, I think, since casting Prossh early is probably the biggest hurdle for the deck. Coalition Relic is probably the best candidate to add after Carpet of Flowers, which you've already included in your updated list.
Insidious Dreams
At first I thought this card was an ace suggestion by Donald, but top of library creates dependencies for the card and much stricter setup than I originally thought. The expensive black tutors in this deck, while costly, are usually a non-issue once you're going off and can net 2+ cards directly to hand.
I'm fishing this list +/- some cards mentioned above (added Artifact Mutation and Pernicious Deed). I must say that the MVP of this deck for me has been Rude Awakening. The Entwine makes Cradle absolutely insane, followed by Yawgwin, Past in Flames, or Eternal Witness and it's an auto GG. The more I play the deck, the more ways I find to milk value out of some of moxnix's favorite cards, like Crucible of Worlds interaction with extra-land-per-turn cards, Strip Mine, and Cradle.
The other two cards I'm unsure about are Read the Bones and Lion's Eye Diamond. I don't think there is a single card, other than Elvish Visionary that I would replace Bones with, but both suck. A lot. I'm also not sure what the interaction is here for Lion's Eye Diamond. I haven't played Storm outside of TES/ANT/DDANT in Legacy, and those generally pair the card with IGG or Infernal Tutor. In this deck, the main use would be with YawgWin. Is that enough? Wouldn't running another ritual or mana doubler accomplish something similar without throwing away the 50+ cards you drew? EIther way, it's another card that's *dead* early on, and I feel the value it provides mid combo isn't better than other cards we could be running, UNLESS I'm completely missing the point of it here.
I'm also not sure what the interaction is here for Lion's Eye Diamond. I haven't played Storm outside of TES/ANT/DDANT in Legacy, and those generally pair the card with IGG or Infernal Tutor. In this deck, the main use would be with YawgWin. Is that enough? Wouldn't running another ritual or mana doubler accomplish something similar without throwing away the 50+ cards you drew? EIther way, it's another card that's *dead* early on, and I feel the value it provides mid combo isn't better than other cards we could be running, UNLESS I'm completely missing the point of it here.
Wheel of fortune too. I just follow this thread, I dont play the deck, but its probably ok to pop in response to your first collective unconscious type card as well.
Im also curious if anyone has tested out Spontaneous Generation in the tokens slot. It was probably my favorite token maker to jump start a winning turn when I used to play wort token combo.
LED is black lotus you crack it to a tutor for yawgwin just like every other deck and win I don't get why people dislike LED in general and this deck this wins at storm 9... If you have 50 cards you already won. Led + demonic tutor is turn 2 necro led on kill turn is yawgwin gg it's a black lotus ... Now spontaneous generation that card I have never seen and looks incredible I like that. The mini prosh effects IE hatcher have been incredible for me play some real games and then tell me you don't like them ;). If I replace ranger it should be a 2 drop for curve reasons and honestly I don't think nature lore is better. Read the bones has been excellent for me so far.
...Saproling Burst... 5 mana for 7 creatures is extremely powerful, and I think this card should be an auto-include in here...
Just a little piddly-crap thing here: if you make 7 tokens with Saproling Burst they'll be 0/0's and die as a state-based effect. Five mana for 6 creatures until your next upkeep is probably fine, though. The issue is that Burst doesn't play as well as a set-up card as the other token-producing creatures.
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
LED is black lotus you crack it to a tutor for yawgwin just like every other deck and win I don't get why people dislike LED in general and this deck this wins at storm 9... If you have 50 cards you already won. Led + demonic tutor is turn 2 necro led on kill turn is yawgwin gg it's a black lotus ... Now spontaneous generation that card I have never seen and looks incredible I like that. The mini prosh effects IE hatcher have been incredible for me play some real games and then tell me you don't like them ;). If I replace ranger it should be a 2 drop for curve reasons and honestly I don't think nature lore is better. Read the bones has been excellent for me so far.
Good call. Thanks for showing me a few lines. Like I said, I've never played with LED in EDH and have no idea what to do with it. A lot of hands let me do moderately cool plays, I just wasn't sure if that was how you were supposed to use it.
...Saproling Burst... 5 mana for 7 creatures is extremely powerful, and I think this card should be an auto-include in here...
Just a little piddly-crap thing here: if you make 7 tokens with Saproling Burst they'll be 0/0's and die as a state-based effect. Five mana for 6 creatures until your next upkeep is probably fine, though. The issue is that Burst doesn't play as well as a set-up card as the other token-producing creatures.
Thanks for pointing that out. 6 creatures for 5 mana is still very good. I'm not sure about how others have been playing this deck, but when I cast Prossh, I plan to win on that turn or the next, so I don't think it's an issue if you can just play it for 6 for that turn or for 5 if you need it to stick around. It's probably equivalent value to the other token producers. It's also an enchantment which is decidedly worse than just being creatures. Needs a second look.
Other than that, good call on Spontaneous Generation. Card is probably better than all of the other token backup cards since it operates as a way to extend your combo or recover from a wrath. Kudos!
I've been piloting a greater aurora prossh deck for a while now with great success. It's a little slower than it could be, but that's mostly because of a slower meta and more control-leaning decks. I'd love to post my list sometime to get some amount of feedback.
to make all your lands black so you can drop necro or plays BB cards with no other black soource and it functions like a basic for earthcraft if you fetch a forest out it can now tap black its just a good land where as coffers would be garbage here.
- slyvan ranger
+ spontaneous generation
i lose a land slot but o well that token generator is insanely good
edit : to be more specific spontaneous is the best token gen in the deck and using it in conjunction with earthcraft is disgusting
that makes alot of sense. i have almost all the cards for this deck. just missing some of the old fetch lands, LED, imperials seal and the grim tutor.
The prosh i've been running is a food chain stax version that honestly feels really clunky. been fishing your version alot and its pretty explosive. wondering what your typical first tutors are for? Cradle? EarthCraft?
it depends on whats in your hand thats why tutors are awesome. for isntance if my hand is
exploration vampitirc tutor fetchland swamp command tower minons murmurs read the bones i would msot likely go turn 1 exploration + land vamp tutor for crucible of worlds
if i have tokens out and a basic land maybe its earthcraft maybe its cradle maybe i just go get a creature draw spell if i have a dark ritual maybe i go get necropotence if i have land tutor maybe its cradle but if im short on land maybe its ancient tomb to slam my prosh or get to my gilded lotus. the last 3 games i played i won all on turn 4-5 and in 1 of them i sandbagged my tutor since my curve out was good and got saproling symbiosis to complement my eartchcraft and go off. i could explain more hands but i think ill just upload some replays from my 1:1 games sicne mutiplayer ones still dont record ( thanks mtgo) to show you lines of play
yet more insight. thank you
i think one of my biggest problems is lacking the crucible and all the $40+ fetch lands, i only have wooded foothills and bloodstained.
so without those i'm running a chromatic lantern and a coalition relic to color fix. definitely feel like your mana base and crucible keep things firing on all cylinders each game. too often i'll have a sexy open hand with no black or green.
any recommended switch for LED or imperial? because i can't find a card that fills such roles. just running the two talismans in their place to help with color and speed.
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Abrupt Decay, Reclamation Sage, Ancient Grudge, and some kind of answer to HD seem like a start for interaction. Choke and company seem like our best way of interacting with fast blue decks - all of my other ideas hurt Aurora Prossh as much as the others.
No DRS seems like an oversight. There is a Birds of Paradise in the list, we play 9 fetches and our opponents will also usually be playing 9 fetches (7 for 2 color). So it'll be very rare that it doesn't tap for mana. It also disrupts graveyard decks without taking up a slot as dedicated graveyard interaction - poorly, I admit, but it is better then nothing.
Edit: Also can't be Clamped which is a very noticeable downside.
Edit2: Why did you cut it from your initial list? I just saw your comment on the first page that you took it out.
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
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@moxnix
If you're looking for cards to cut, I think Saproling Symbiosis is definitely cuttable. I've been fishing the deck without it (Coalition Relic in its place) and if you're really looking for more control slots, that's probably cuttable. Another inclusion I'm not too sure of is Helm of Awakening. I would consider that very much a back end card, and if you're going off, another untap or Cradle effect would net about the same value (Candelabra of Tawnos, Battle Hymn). Helm is good cause you'll usually net several mana off of it while you're going off, but I think the real reason you put it in your other storm decks is cause it enables Future Sight / Top infinites, and not necessarily just for the ramp. It also has limited use early on, which was one of the criteria you mentioned for cutting a card. I might be completely wrong, but just food for thought.
As for control cards, yes I think Pernicious Deed is very good for this deck. If you're looking for more value, Artifact Mutation is also an interesting choice.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
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One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Edit: Seedtime is not really an effect we're looking for... but Time Walk is a pretty good card.
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
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Do you guys feel that hermit and emrakul's hatcher do enough work? I've been pretty much ignoring them the entire time
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
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Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
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What, you don't run a Kobolds of Kher Keep maindeck? They're a staple Jund EDH card, 0/1 for 0 so good
Re: Other token producers - Are we playing them because they make a burst of tokens, or are they backup for Prossh? Should we maybe run cheaper token makers that produce less tokens instead of the 5drops? How good have they actually been for you if you ignore that Aurora bug?
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
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Sylvan Ranger - I've been thinking more about this card and I still think it's an easy cut. Even with needing basics for earthcraft and having a body I don't feel this card does enough and would rather play something that helped me dig to a card that was better.
Do you need as many of the large draw spells as you run? I would guess you could get by without Collective Unconscious. Also maybe I'm missing something do you like Increasing Ambition because it's not color intensive so you can us it as multiple tutors when you go off? It seems too expensive early on and not needed late game but again I could be misunderstanding it's purpose.
Not addressed to me, but since I'm playing a similar version, maybe my feedback would help.
Going off is much smoother with that card in hand. I've occasionally tutored for it when I've had far too much mana. There is a lot of value in Rude Awakening > flashback Increasing Ambition to fuel the combo further, or to end with Purphoros/Empty the Warrens where storm count's appropriate. It can definitely be superfluous at times, but the redundancy it offers is very important with certain hands. I think it's been very useful for me.
However, just want to stop by and give some suggestions of cards that worked well in my meta.
Autumn's Veil-Like Pyrobalst or REB, but green and proactive
Bosium Strip- This is weird, but if used right it can act as a pseudo Past in Flames (probably not good in a more developed meta)
Bubbling Muck- A high tide for swamps that can become crazy with Urborg in play... done lots of work for me!
Autumn's Veil really does not do enough, REB and Pyroblast are here because they can also destroy blue permanents, Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study are very commonly played and usually screw storm decks.
Bosium Strip is okay, but its too much mana and is only 1 shot.
Bubbling Muck has been suggested many times over many threads, but Mox just don't like it, not sure why, but he won't use it. Must be bad voodoo.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Deranged Hermit/Emrakul's Hatcher and Saproling Burst
I haven't played any real matches, but these cards are lackluster while setting up or going off. Saproling Burst is a great card because it can still net you mana mid-combo, assuming you have a Cradle tap to spare. 5 mana for 7 creatures is extremely powerful, and I think this card should be an auto-include in here. I've cut the Hermit and Hatcher for now, but will probably end up re-adding them in the future as needed.
Helm of Awakening
Maybe I don't play the deck the same way, but I feel like this card's usefulness isn't maximized here. There's no Future Sight/Top combo, and most of the time when you're going off, you have way more mana than you'll ever need. I would probably put this in the same bucket as Saproling Symbiosis, but honestly, this doesn't help you get over the "hump" that moxnix kept mentioning - it's only good once you're already going off. At that point, I'd rather just play a card like Battle Hymn or Candelabra of Tawnos.
Sylvan Ranger
I think the body value is slightly overstated here. We want real ramp still, I think, since casting Prossh early is probably the biggest hurdle for the deck. Coalition Relic is probably the best candidate to add after Carpet of Flowers, which you've already included in your updated list.
Insidious Dreams
At first I thought this card was an ace suggestion by Donald, but top of library creates dependencies for the card and much stricter setup than I originally thought. The expensive black tutors in this deck, while costly, are usually a non-issue once you're going off and can net 2+ cards directly to hand.
I'm fishing this list +/- some cards mentioned above (added Artifact Mutation and Pernicious Deed). I must say that the MVP of this deck for me has been Rude Awakening. The Entwine makes Cradle absolutely insane, followed by Yawgwin, Past in Flames, or Eternal Witness and it's an auto GG. The more I play the deck, the more ways I find to milk value out of some of moxnix's favorite cards, like Crucible of Worlds interaction with extra-land-per-turn cards, Strip Mine, and Cradle.
The other two cards I'm unsure about are Read the Bones and Lion's Eye Diamond. I don't think there is a single card, other than Elvish Visionary that I would replace Bones with, but both suck. A lot. I'm also not sure what the interaction is here for Lion's Eye Diamond. I haven't played Storm outside of TES/ANT/DDANT in Legacy, and those generally pair the card with IGG or Infernal Tutor. In this deck, the main use would be with YawgWin. Is that enough? Wouldn't running another ritual or mana doubler accomplish something similar without throwing away the 50+ cards you drew? EIther way, it's another card that's *dead* early on, and I feel the value it provides mid combo isn't better than other cards we could be running, UNLESS I'm completely missing the point of it here.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Wheel of fortune too. I just follow this thread, I dont play the deck, but its probably ok to pop in response to your first collective unconscious type card as well.
Im also curious if anyone has tested out Spontaneous Generation in the tokens slot. It was probably my favorite token maker to jump start a winning turn when I used to play wort token combo.
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DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Just a little piddly-crap thing here: if you make 7 tokens with Saproling Burst they'll be 0/0's and die as a state-based effect. Five mana for 6 creatures until your next upkeep is probably fine, though. The issue is that Burst doesn't play as well as a set-up card as the other token-producing creatures.
Good call. Thanks for showing me a few lines. Like I said, I've never played with LED in EDH and have no idea what to do with it. A lot of hands let me do moderately cool plays, I just wasn't sure if that was how you were supposed to use it.
Thanks for pointing that out. 6 creatures for 5 mana is still very good. I'm not sure about how others have been playing this deck, but when I cast Prossh, I plan to win on that turn or the next, so I don't think it's an issue if you can just play it for 6 for that turn or for 5 if you need it to stick around. It's probably equivalent value to the other token producers. It's also an enchantment which is decidedly worse than just being creatures. Needs a second look.
Other than that, good call on Spontaneous Generation. Card is probably better than all of the other token backup cards since it operates as a way to extend your combo or recover from a wrath. Kudos!
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
- slyvan ranger
+ spontaneous generation
i lose a land slot but o well that token generator is insanely good
edit : to be more specific spontaneous is the best token gen in the deck and using it in conjunction with earthcraft is disgusting
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
The prosh i've been running is a food chain stax version that honestly feels really clunky. been fishing your version alot and its pretty explosive. wondering what your typical first tutors are for? Cradle? EarthCraft?
exploration vampitirc tutor fetchland swamp command tower minons murmurs read the bones i would msot likely go turn 1 exploration + land vamp tutor for crucible of worlds
if i have tokens out and a basic land maybe its earthcraft maybe its cradle maybe i just go get a creature draw spell if i have a dark ritual maybe i go get necropotence if i have land tutor maybe its cradle but if im short on land maybe its ancient tomb to slam my prosh or get to my gilded lotus. the last 3 games i played i won all on turn 4-5 and in 1 of them i sandbagged my tutor since my curve out was good and got saproling symbiosis to complement my eartchcraft and go off. i could explain more hands but i think ill just upload some replays from my 1:1 games sicne mutiplayer ones still dont record ( thanks mtgo) to show you lines of play
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
i think one of my biggest problems is lacking the crucible and all the $40+ fetch lands, i only have wooded foothills and bloodstained.
so without those i'm running a chromatic lantern and a coalition relic to color fix. definitely feel like your mana base and crucible keep things firing on all cylinders each game. too often i'll have a sexy open hand with no black or green.
any recommended switch for LED or imperial? because i can't find a card that fills such roles. just running the two talismans in their place to help with color and speed.