I know Malignus and Hydra Omnivore are beyond stupid, I'm not questioning those ones in particular. Still, look at your stuff, and truthfully answer yourself whether everything else that doesn't have evasion is truthfully better than, say, Terra Stomper (which is a big dumb vanilla beatstick, not saying you need to run it, but use it as a decent tape measure of raw face-smashing effectiveness). Some stuff that you're missing that would probably be cool that I recalled since the last post would be Hellkite Charger, Kalonian Hydra, Siege Behemoth and Soul of the Harvest.
The only other two that I can see (Duplicant and Bane of Progress) are disruption. The primary purpose of those cards are to destroy things. That being said, they take up premium space on my curve that is really less than ideal. I can actually see cutting duplicant because the deck actually doesn't care a whole lot about indestructibles. And if it needs exile effects, It'll destroy any artifact or enchantment engine rather than try and exile the creature that is being recurred.
It is the "necessary evil" card but I might not actually need the answer considering the deck's gameplan.
Also Terra Stomper is actually a very good measuring stick here.
Oh, and Inferno Titan, but his double arc lightnings make it trivially easy early on to clear his own path. Slowing down my opponent in the process is a good sweetener to that deal. The exception is late-game, but this deck is not at its best late game anyway. I have other cards to keep the deck going for the long game.
So yeah, wurmcoil (depending on needs) and duplicant (depending on how badly I actually need the effect) definitely are the questionable ones. They are currently my two weakest.
Hi,awesome deck, it actually inspired me to ruibuild Xenagos. I played it before but it didn't work out. Looking at the deck now it was way to top heavy,like total 10 7/8 drops. Seems insane, and indeed I can tell you it does not work, so I will be steering clear of them this time!
Akroma, Angel of Fury was suggested last page, and I find it's about the only creature I'd never consider cutting. Think of the role that Dosan and City of Solitude play in this list, and those are exactly the same problems Akroma generally solves with the uncounterable and protection from W/U. Also, flying, trample, then Firebreathing on top to make sure you're doing exact lethal once you hit those mana counts.
I'm intrigued by no Godo, Bandit Warlord. Seems like most decks run him with at least SoLaS and Warhammer. But that does end up being a lot of deck space.
Been thinking. I'm actually liking Siege Behemoth more and more. It's like our very own beefy Invisible Stalker! The 4 toughness is a big deal but our general makes it less of a problem. They would need 11 power to kill this on the first hit.. and if I have an extra combat before attacking the player, 22 power. 7 power is a sweet spot for the deck because with an extra combat you get 14 + 28 damage. 42 damage will typically one-shot most players.
What's important is that it has hexproof and evasion. My meta has been warped enough that people will play tons of creature removal just to get rid of my guys or the generals of fairly tuned deck lists.
On that note, I am adding red Akroma, Angel of Fury for these same reasons. I really want to stick it to blue players and a combination of uncounterability and protection helps. Sure, it's not the fastest thing but as people adapt to the list, I simply need to adapt back. The firebreathing makes the turn after the first attack even deadlier.
Cutting Wurmcoil Engine and Duplicant. Wurmcoil's life and tokens are actually super nice but not being the best clock is a serious problem to its playability in this deck. Thankfully I'm playing the 3-drop scalers to make this a little easier on the overall curve. I will make original post changes in the morning.
With the right amount of free range attackers (your board state) Siege Behemoth can get every point of damage through. He's like a global Rhox with Hexproof.
I will very rarely ever have three threats out at once. The only other time I'd ever have a huge number of creatures out is if I made a metric ton of Eldrazi Spawns via Rapacious One
I probably won't be playing it, but at least it does something to help a followup big guy if it shows up and your baloth is still alive.
Also added a section on why I don't play Berserk effects. However, I will admit that Temur Battle Rage does a pretty good impression of an expensive old green card. It's a legitimate card to try if your meta isn't killing everything you play on sight.
Since it keeps getting brought up, I dig the Terra Stomper scale idea for this deck. I've been thinking about adding it to my own deck because it does exactly what the deck wants to do. In fact it's pretty much the poster child for Xenagod, aside from himself. Any reason why you aren't running it?
I don't play Terra Stomper because... well.. I kind of have enough attackers that simply act as "plain beaters".. but many of them cost only three mana, grant other benefits, or just plain hit for A LOT more than just 16. And honestly, Malignus is kind of the poster child for the deck. It's pretty unplayable everywhere else, but people are scared when they see it here.
However, it's pretty serviceable and it'll do a decent job. Go try it. You definitely can cut something of yours for this card.
I'm also making one quick change I forgot to make. I still need to acquire some cards I haven't gotten from my last update.
Remove Hunter's Prowess for Hunter's Insight. Similar cards, but one costs 2 more. I have enough evasion now that I don't really need the trample bonus. I honestly wish there were simply more green card draw options, preferably power-based ones I can play postcombat. I ALWAYS end up wanting to see one. No, Life's Legacy isn't what I want. Not being able to sacrifice at instant speed is a big deal.
Lastly, 3rd time playing Managorger Hydra. Card overperformed yet again. PLAY THIS CARD. IT COSTS 3 MANA AND BECOMES BIGGER THAN TERRA STOMPER in just 1-2 turns. Ideally, you drop it before you play Xenagod for the first time, but it's not that terrible after because it costs 3 mana and you can kickstart its growth. Or just play it as the "backup fatty" and swing with another.
Good call on Akroma. I think I will try out Siege Behemoth in my build also. Last time I really played a lot of Xenagos, he hadn't been released yet, but I was going through and playing anything with Hexproof and/or relevant protection, whether or not it had evasion, because it's just that important. Even if an opponent does have a wipe, it's enough over the game to just be able to hit once. But then things like Thrun that don't have evasion get chumped for days.
Managorger Hydra seems interesting. For a while, I was using Forgotten Ancient to get manlands pumped up, and it did ok but was inconsistent.
Hello,
First of all, forgive my school English, I'm French.
I opened this profile for the sole purpose of responding to your subject, I myself am a zealot of Xenagos, especially in 1v1 or "French commander".
Aware that the format outside France is multiplayer, I want you to notice one point:
Managorger Hydra is really a very good card, but it's also the worst topdeck. Obviously it is of unparalleled violence starting hand, but its role stops here. If it is not round 2 of the battlefield, it does not really serve. Once the game is installed it will run too fast and will not have time to do the expected damage and will probably be the worst topdeck.
The question in Xenagos is to say:
Apart from being a "fatty", what does this card? What she can do outside of his power. And in this case, nothing. And for me this is a bad card because once installed it has no other effect than that of being a big beast. This return has put a bear that grows, certainly, but a bear.
Good points, but I still like it, mostly because it is one of the potential biggest drops before I play xenagos. Still rebuilding the deck though and never played with the card! So testing will tell in a week or so.
This is true. Managorger Hydra is at its absolute worst as a topdeck in a deck where there's a lot of bad topdecks. It's still better than something that gets a mana source in that it can act as a draw conduit or a pressure tool later, but you can't really abuse the double power + haste the turn you play it. You literally have to take a turn off, and that is a big downside compared to a card like Wilderness Elemental.
And yes, most of my simple "attackers" will grant other bonuses such as extra damage, attacks, evasive damage, or a way to advance my board position. That's why it is easy to make a case for cards like Rapacious One. The ones that don't simply do hideous amounts of damage when they connect.
These are the two that don't usually have either, and time will tell if I can find anything better in the 5-6 mana range to replace them. But I like having 3-drop plays because I can't always get a Xenagod on turn 3. A turn 4 one will give me a chance to play one of these and have it be ready to swing on turn 4.
What do you think of this card Ohran Viper for mana cost 3.
To play it regularly, it is a thorny problem for the opponent that dares not block it for fear of losing his ramp and she regularly draw if it is not managed. She looklike stupid or weak and little in line with Xenagos but I assure you that once on board, it's a real problem. Try;-)
You did mention in my thread about not drawing into enough draw. While Ohran Viper can draw you cards, I think Hystrodon may be a more plausable option. It has built in trample and can hit for at least 6 with a Xenagod trigger. Kinda cute, but it might work. There's also the previously mentioned Soul of the Harvest, which fits into your CMC 6 theme and has trample. While weak on the Terra Stomper scale, it does draw you cards. I'd still recommend Elemental Bond because it comes down early.
I might just be getting unlucky in all my games because I have seven "big" draw sources in the deck. One of which is nonconditional (Wheel of Fortune)
I have about 14-15 big "threats", so for every two I find I should be getting one of those draw sources. Personally, I would ideally want ten draw sources, but that's fairly hard to do. I'll test Soul of the Harvest if I can reacquire one. I will also test Elemental Bond and Nissa's Revelation. I'll test Ohran Viper later while I scope out how often I can actually connect with it early game. Nissa's Revelation seems like the best of the options in a vacuum because it's a better late-game topdeck than the others. With how much I try and sequence my early game plays, I rarely have nothing to do early game, but a lot of my deck is also not live late game.
There's also Reforge the Soul as wheel #2. Considering that I empty my hand rather fast, wheels tend to be good here. I actually like that option too.
oran viper and hystrodon seem pretty bad to me... I'd far sooner play Nissa's revelation, life's legacy, reforge the soul or harmonise (I don't plan to play these, but I might)
oran viper and hystrodon seem pretty bad to me... I'd far sooner play Nissa's revelation, life's legacy, reforge the soul or harmonise (I don't plan to play these, but I might)
Knollspine Dragon was mentioned by plush on the first page. It costs the same as Nissa's Revelation, however it does require something to connect before it hits the field. Both Revelation and Knollspine are creature dependent, but I think I would prefer Revelation here as it doesn't require a creature to be on the field, allows you to filter less useful away, and gains life to survive another turn. The argument could be made that Knollspine Dragon could effectively draw more cards than Nissa's Revelation, which is true the potential to draw 12 cards off of a 7 mana spell is great. I suppose it all depends on what the pilot values more, and what their meta can and can't deal with.
I did mention Lifeblood Hydra earlier, and there's also Pelakka Wurm as a nice budget alternative. As long as they aren't exiled, you're probably drawing a card (or more) off of these sooner or later. However both are lower on the Terra Stomper scale. Snake Umbra might work. It grants totem armor, and with trample you're drawing a card off of every hit. Maybe even Triumph of Ferocity.
It seems to me that one of the things you will run into when playing things in Gruul, aside from options like Wheel of Fortune and friends and Harmonize, a lot of your card draw options are creature dependent. This means protection such as regenerate, hexproof, and indestructibility are even more important in a deck like this. Though it dies to Bane of Progress, Mind's Eye may be a plausible option.
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It is the "necessary evil" card but I might not actually need the answer considering the deck's gameplan.
Also Terra Stomper is actually a very good measuring stick here.
Oh, and Inferno Titan, but his double arc lightnings make it trivially easy early on to clear his own path. Slowing down my opponent in the process is a good sweetener to that deal. The exception is late-game, but this deck is not at its best late game anyway. I have other cards to keep the deck going for the long game.
So yeah, wurmcoil (depending on needs) and duplicant (depending on how badly I actually need the effect) definitely are the questionable ones. They are currently my two weakest.
I'll run Adephage or hellkite charger if it comes down to it.
As always your input is much appreciated. It's always good to encourage a thorough analysis to see if I really actually NEED whatever I have here.
LATE EDIT: I added a list of cards that I DON'T play, and explain the reasons.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
RJaya Ballard, Task Mage Mono Red Control Decklist
WNahiri, the Lithomancer Mono White Control Decklist
RGWUKynaios and Tiro of Meletis Aikido Control Decklist
UBGisa and Geralf Tribal Aggro Decklist
URGRiku of Two Reflections Non-combo coolstuff Decklist
RWUBruse Tarl, Boorish Herder and Kraum, Ludovic's Opus Equipments Decklist
WBAthreos, God of Passage Reanimate/Goodstuff Decklist
Also if you are looking for a second evasion-enabling land, then Skarrg, the Rage Pits will outperform Rogue's Passage here.
I'm intrigued by no Godo, Bandit Warlord. Seems like most decks run him with at least SoLaS and Warhammer. But that does end up being a lot of deck space.
What's important is that it has hexproof and evasion. My meta has been warped enough that people will play tons of creature removal just to get rid of my guys or the generals of fairly tuned deck lists.
On that note, I am adding red Akroma, Angel of Fury for these same reasons. I really want to stick it to blue players and a combination of uncounterability and protection helps. Sure, it's not the fastest thing but as people adapt to the list, I simply need to adapt back. The firebreathing makes the turn after the first attack even deadlier.
Cutting Wurmcoil Engine and Duplicant. Wurmcoil's life and tokens are actually super nice but not being the best clock is a serious problem to its playability in this deck. Thankfully I'm playing the 3-drop scalers to make this a little easier on the overall curve. I will make original post changes in the morning.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
RJaya Ballard, Task Mage Mono Red Control Decklist
WNahiri, the Lithomancer Mono White Control Decklist
RGWUKynaios and Tiro of Meletis Aikido Control Decklist
UBGisa and Geralf Tribal Aggro Decklist
URGRiku of Two Reflections Non-combo coolstuff Decklist
RWUBruse Tarl, Boorish Herder and Kraum, Ludovic's Opus Equipments Decklist
WBAthreos, God of Passage Reanimate/Goodstuff Decklist
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
So, Thunderfoot Baloth is pretty average on the Terra Stomper Scale
I probably won't be playing it, but at least it does something to help a followup big guy if it shows up and your baloth is still alive.
Also added a section on why I don't play Berserk effects. However, I will admit that Temur Battle Rage does a pretty good impression of an expensive old green card. It's a legitimate card to try if your meta isn't killing everything you play on sight.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Also what are your thoughts on Miren, the Moaning Well?
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
However, it's pretty serviceable and it'll do a decent job. Go try it. You definitely can cut something of yours for this card.
Gaea's Revenge I don't play precisely because there is no trample and the haste text is practically irrelevant in the deck.
Miren, the Moaning Well is not a bad card, but my list has a LOT of colorless lands already. I am currently playing
Kessig Wolf Run, Skarrg, the Rage Pits, Reliquary Tower, Strip Mine, Tectonic Edge, Haven of the Spirit Dragon.
If I wanted a seventh, it would be Ancient Tomb
I'm also making one quick change I forgot to make. I still need to acquire some cards I haven't gotten from my last update.
Remove Hunter's Prowess for Hunter's Insight. Similar cards, but one costs 2 more. I have enough evasion now that I don't really need the trample bonus. I honestly wish there were simply more green card draw options, preferably power-based ones I can play postcombat. I ALWAYS end up wanting to see one. No, Life's Legacy isn't what I want. Not being able to sacrifice at instant speed is a big deal.
Lastly, 3rd time playing Managorger Hydra. Card overperformed yet again. PLAY THIS CARD. IT COSTS 3 MANA AND BECOMES BIGGER THAN TERRA STOMPER in just 1-2 turns. Ideally, you drop it before you play Xenagod for the first time, but it's not that terrible after because it costs 3 mana and you can kickstart its growth. Or just play it as the "backup fatty" and swing with another.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Managorger Hydra seems interesting. For a while, I was using Forgotten Ancient to get manlands pumped up, and it did ok but was inconsistent.
First of all, forgive my school English, I'm French.
I opened this profile for the sole purpose of responding to your subject, I myself am a zealot of Xenagos, especially in 1v1 or "French commander".
Aware that the format outside France is multiplayer, I want you to notice one point:
Managorger Hydra is really a very good card, but it's also the worst topdeck. Obviously it is of unparalleled violence starting hand, but its role stops here. If it is not round 2 of the battlefield, it does not really serve. Once the game is installed it will run too fast and will not have time to do the expected damage and will probably be the worst topdeck.
The question in Xenagos is to say:
Apart from being a "fatty", what does this card? What she can do outside of his power. And in this case, nothing. And for me this is a bad card because once installed it has no other effect than that of being a big beast. This return has put a bear that grows, certainly, but a bear.
RJaya Ballard, Task Mage Mono Red Control Decklist
WNahiri, the Lithomancer Mono White Control Decklist
RGWUKynaios and Tiro of Meletis Aikido Control Decklist
UBGisa and Geralf Tribal Aggro Decklist
URGRiku of Two Reflections Non-combo coolstuff Decklist
RWUBruse Tarl, Boorish Herder and Kraum, Ludovic's Opus Equipments Decklist
WBAthreos, God of Passage Reanimate/Goodstuff Decklist
And yes, most of my simple "attackers" will grant other bonuses such as extra damage, attacks, evasive damage, or a way to advance my board position. That's why it is easy to make a case for cards like Rapacious One. The ones that don't simply do hideous amounts of damage when they connect.
These are the two that don't usually have either, and time will tell if I can find anything better in the 5-6 mana range to replace them. But I like having 3-drop plays because I can't always get a Xenagod on turn 3. A turn 4 one will give me a chance to play one of these and have it be ready to swing on turn 4.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
To play it regularly, it is a thorny problem for the opponent that dares not block it for fear of losing his ramp and she regularly draw if it is not managed. She looklike stupid or weak and little in line with Xenagos but I assure you that once on board, it's a real problem. Try;-)
I have about 14-15 big "threats", so for every two I find I should be getting one of those draw sources. Personally, I would ideally want ten draw sources, but that's fairly hard to do. I'll test Soul of the Harvest if I can reacquire one. I will also test Elemental Bond and Nissa's Revelation. I'll test Ohran Viper later while I scope out how often I can actually connect with it early game.
Nissa's Revelation seems like the best of the options in a vacuum because it's a better late-game topdeck than the others. With how much I try and sequence my early game plays, I rarely have nothing to do early game, but a lot of my deck is also not live late game.
There's also Reforge the Soul as wheel #2. Considering that I empty my hand rather fast, wheels tend to be good here. I actually like that option too.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
It was also to place a creature with a summoning cost of 3 but for Hystrodon, this creature seems to me brutalized, especially with the "morph".
I stand your feedback about it cause i need to test it and i have lack of time for test today.
RJaya Ballard, Task Mage Mono Red Control Decklist
WNahiri, the Lithomancer Mono White Control Decklist
RGWUKynaios and Tiro of Meletis Aikido Control Decklist
UBGisa and Geralf Tribal Aggro Decklist
URGRiku of Two Reflections Non-combo coolstuff Decklist
RWUBruse Tarl, Boorish Herder and Kraum, Ludovic's Opus Equipments Decklist
WBAthreos, God of Passage Reanimate/Goodstuff Decklist
Knollspine Dragon was mentioned by plush on the first page. It costs the same as Nissa's Revelation, however it does require something to connect before it hits the field. Both Revelation and Knollspine are creature dependent, but I think I would prefer Revelation here as it doesn't require a creature to be on the field, allows you to filter less useful away, and gains life to survive another turn. The argument could be made that Knollspine Dragon could effectively draw more cards than Nissa's Revelation, which is true the potential to draw 12 cards off of a 7 mana spell is great. I suppose it all depends on what the pilot values more, and what their meta can and can't deal with.
I did mention Lifeblood Hydra earlier, and there's also Pelakka Wurm as a nice budget alternative. As long as they aren't exiled, you're probably drawing a card (or more) off of these sooner or later. However both are lower on the Terra Stomper scale. Snake Umbra might work. It grants totem armor, and with trample you're drawing a card off of every hit. Maybe even Triumph of Ferocity.
It seems to me that one of the things you will run into when playing things in Gruul, aside from options like Wheel of Fortune and friends and Harmonize, a lot of your card draw options are creature dependent. This means protection such as regenerate, hexproof, and indestructibility are even more important in a deck like this. Though it dies to Bane of Progress, Mind's Eye may be a plausible option.