I know I present a lot of cards that don't make it in. All in the name of budget/consideration.
Now this one could be just what we need. Constant Mists.
"Why the **** would you present a fog to us?" you say. Well this is a repeatable fog, even multiple times during a turn cycle. Our deck lacks defense, and this can save our lives over and over again. If our games go long, we usually end up with extra lands in the mid to late game. We ramp to hit Xenagos and our 6-7 drop early, but we don't need massive amounts of land every turn. Also, given that we are a ramp based deck, we can end up with extra mana later on.
Fog is bad, constant mists can be quite good I feel. Heard the recommendation through the command zone youtube channel. Us Xenagos players are often the most targeted people on the table early on, which makes sense. When we have the power to kill someone within 1-3 turns, people are naturally afraid of that. This leads to disproportionate targeting of us. Constant mists says "take an extra 1-3 turns around the table before you would normally die" in my mind. If we are going to die or take significant damage, losing 1 land and 2 mana isn't asking much. Notice that you could constant mist against ALL of your opponents going round the table if they're on a vendetta against you.
I think that if you need to go on the defensive you're doomed / doing it wrong already. Having said that, if you would want some protection against retaliation i would opt for something like Crawlspace or Smoke for a more permanent, less land costly solution. If you want to use a fog, go with Tangle instead and just punish whoever thinks they can attack you with impunity. A third way to do it is to run more damage based boardwipes. Your creature is usually bigger than the others, so smack and wipe post combat.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Well those do seem better. Perhaps I'm doing the deck wrong. I mean with 2-4 opponents, that's a lot of life. Seems like Xenagos handles 2-3 opponents pretty well. It's those 5-6 player games that are of concern. Things have to go very well for you to deal around 240 damage before you die because everyone teams up against you.
Perhaps this deck is best relegated to 2-3 opponent games? Or am I just looking at this the wrong way still?
Well those do seem better. Perhaps I'm doing the deck wrong. I mean with 2-4 opponents, that's a lot of life. Seems like Xenagos handles 2-3 opponents pretty well. It's those 5-6 player games that are of concern. Things have to go very well for you to deal around 240 damage before you die because everyone teams up against you.
Perhaps this deck is best relegated to 2-3 opponent games? Or am I just looking at this the wrong way still?
5-6 player games are difficult, but sometimes you can still get there, especially if you're not threat #1 100% of the time.
These situations are where cards like Chandra's Ignition and Emrakul, the Promised End do wonders as well as taking a ton of extra combats. However, you draw a metric ton of attention as soon as you draw 12+ cards.
I like adding extra wipes if needed. I run a lot of protection now because I expect more removal, but if you expect people to go wide, add some wipes to buy time.
Well those do seem better. Perhaps I'm doing the deck wrong. I mean with 2-4 opponents, that's a lot of life. Seems like Xenagos handles 2-3 opponents pretty well. It's those 5-6 player games that are of concern. Things have to go very well for you to deal around 240 damage before you die because everyone teams up against you.
Perhaps this deck is best relegated to 2-3 opponent games? Or am I just looking at this the wrong way still?
I don't know,honestly, i never play 5+'games because they tend to take too long. But i guess you do need more defense if there are more opponents because of the additional damage you need to do in order to win. I was talking 4 man games.
But regardless of the amount of players, this deck is as about offense more than any edh deck i know. Regardless of the amount of players, the more cards you detract from your main strategy (max damage output) the weaker the deck becomes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Welcome to the team. I had someone filling in for your spot but ditching cards I don't need combined with the mana generation and being 4 mana is good enough to be worth a solid test. You may not be card advantage but the increased consistency is welcome.
Bolt Bend : Having one-mana answers to both all spot removal and counterspells (as long as a 4 power creature is out) is HUGE. This will stop anyone that tries to stop you outside of nontargeted effects (or effects with multiple targets, not common) , no matter what colors they run. It will also randomly swipe a nasty targeted spell or trigger in a favorable direction.
Ilharg, the Raze Boar: 6/6 trample for 5 is great. However, there are quite a few synergies with the deck. While this card does not combo with attack triggers (which is a shame), there are still a number of cards that synergize with it.
Situationally synergizes with Pathbreaker Ibex that survived to an untap if you stack your attack triggers correctly.
This card also synergizes with ALL draw effects as even when you sacrifice this, you can put it third from the top to have it available. When you draw a ton of cards, you are more likely to draw one of these cards or other cards to synergize with it.
This card synergizes with extra combats to a smaller degree. For one, the snuck in creature does not have haste, so if you want to attack with it again, you will need to target it with the Xenagos buff. This is generally very desirable for Combat Celebrant, Scourge of the Throne, and Pathbreaker Ibex but situationally is relevant for others if you desire their effects. Being a 5 mana creature makes this a lot easier to cast an extra combat on the same turn.
Lastly, the death/exile trigger is good on its own for ensuring that you don't run out of steam too quickly, but it is especially good with all library manipulation so that you can immediately access it if desired. This makes your library manipulation all the more reliable to enact your plan.
I know, right? What a crazy set. Some part of me wants to hate it, as it's walker focused and I'm far from partial to them, but then they make tons of crazy awesome cardboard that doesn't feel forced and I just melt. Think what would make Neheb 3.0 really click would be "plus one" to the draw/mana, so you'd have a trace of card advantage on top of all the rummaging, but I'm pretty sure you'll still give him a good home. Dash Pig is super cute, and I managed to miss the recursion trigger before you pointed it out.
Not to mention the new Rhonas! Just getting to use it’s effect on one creature is already very powerful, on a double striker like Atarka it allows it to 48 just by itself.
This is indeed the most awesome set in a long time!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I got it out on turn 2. I played Xenagod on turn 3, looted 4 cards that I didn't want, then drew into and played a Blood Mist. On turn 4, I attached for 20, generated some red mana, played a Rishkar's Expertise, drew 10 cards, played my free extra combat, attacked for 40, and I won that turn.
Neheb is still super scary to any opponent for good reason. Never actually drew the boar, but I think the boar is simply going to be "average" in this deck. Average as in it does varied things all reasonably efficiently, but nothing ever super insane like many of the other creatures in the deck. I can definitely see cutting it in the future if I do get another insane fatty.
It honestly probably is ranked with the 7 drops of the deck, which I generally consider to be inferior to the above even though they have good advantages. Basically, it is there because everything else is worse rather than it being amazing.
Oh yeah, upgrades
+ Veil of Summer - Notably, this stops targeted bounce on Xenagod in noncreature form.
+ Prismatic Vista
Reap the Past doesn't even look that terrible. It reminds me of a red-green Braingeyser from your graveyard. Better than Seasons' Past when your deck is heavy on several particular CMCs.
Xenagos has been doing well for me. I put in Gamble and have drawn it a couple of times. I'm not too high on it. Seems to only be good when you have a lot of cards, and this deck doesn't always lend itself to having a lot of cards. The floor on this card is too low, essentially pay a red mana to discard a card at random when you discard the card you wanted. Thinking about finding some other kind of card draw to put in its place. Actually, I'll put in Neheb, that card selection on a trample body sounds good.
***Edit*** What power level would you rate your Xenagos deck on a scale of 1-10, 10 being a highly tuned competitive EDH deck?
It's an 8. Powerful but not unbeatable and still able to keep combo players honest with its ability to throw stupendous amounts of pressure relatively quickly.
I was able to pick up a Time of need. It will replace Gamble. I'd rather have something that will search for Dragonlord Atarka or Emrakul without the cost of losing a card. The deck has enough ramp, extra combats et. that I don't need to search for them with Gamble. Also we have enough dragons that Atarka can gain some extra damage via giving them double strike. It seems to be the card I search for the most. 24 haste trample damage ain't bad.
I also picked up Neheb the eternal. I like the combination of card selection/trample damage coming out early.
Xenagos is still probably my favorite deck. With everyone's help, it is my most tuned deck. It's really hard to find upgrades without spending $20+ per card at this point. The power level is real. The deck is fair. Also, it's a solid aggro edh deck which is pretty hard to pull off. As a bonus, it's a deck that speeds up games. Even if we die, it's nearly certain that we've done 30-100 damage before we went out. I really prefer this to extremely slow, "You can't play Magic" style of lock out decks.
I had a game today that was pretty rough due to an early painful quandry hitting the board. I was about to kill the person with it out, when he realized that his thaumatic compass should have flipped already. I still threw around something like 60 damage before succumbing to my opponents.
Well, a lot of your power cards are four mana, so having crypt makes a big difference when evaluating that tutor, especially with sylvan and other draw effects.
This list is now on MTGNexus. I will update the list here, but most of the discussion I expect to have happen on there. I will still be around for discussion on any lists pertaining to me.
Also, I'm thinking if Bolt Bend or Autumn's Veil is stronger. One stops all types of spot removal, but the other stops counterspells as well as removal that isn't Beast Within, Chaos Warp, swords, or path.
Lastly, Scavenging Ooze or Collector Ouphe? I feel that Ouphe is generically stronger and that graveyard decks that aren't fast I'm not too worried about beating.
I think Bolt bend can stop counter spells if you have the mana to pay for it. They play counterspell, you play bolt bend, counterspell targets itself. Of course you may rip a hole in a the Magic continuum as counterspell resolves, yet doesn't resolve? Also bolt bend can stop some non-counterspell nastiness. My friend plays Mana Short for instance. Autmun's Veil can't stop that from affecting me, but bolt bend can.
Also, bolt bend is a 2 for 1 when successfully pulled off. You stop their spell, and were able to reuse the spell's power for your will. Autumn's veil just stops something from happening without redirecting the damage. It's only a 1 for 1.
Are you enjoying MTG Nexus more than Salvation? Why the switch?
Ah, good. I was gonna ask about what the new site would be once salvation goes under or whatever was happening. Hopefully the transition isn't too bad.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Now this one could be just what we need. Constant Mists.
"Why the **** would you present a fog to us?" you say. Well this is a repeatable fog, even multiple times during a turn cycle. Our deck lacks defense, and this can save our lives over and over again. If our games go long, we usually end up with extra lands in the mid to late game. We ramp to hit Xenagos and our 6-7 drop early, but we don't need massive amounts of land every turn. Also, given that we are a ramp based deck, we can end up with extra mana later on.
Fog is bad, constant mists can be quite good I feel. Heard the recommendation through the command zone youtube channel. Us Xenagos players are often the most targeted people on the table early on, which makes sense. When we have the power to kill someone within 1-3 turns, people are naturally afraid of that. This leads to disproportionate targeting of us. Constant mists says "take an extra 1-3 turns around the table before you would normally die" in my mind. If we are going to die or take significant damage, losing 1 land and 2 mana isn't asking much. Notice that you could constant mist against ALL of your opponents going round the table if they're on a vendetta against you.
Eh?
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Perhaps this deck is best relegated to 2-3 opponent games? Or am I just looking at this the wrong way still?
5-6 player games are difficult, but sometimes you can still get there, especially if you're not threat #1 100% of the time.
These situations are where cards like Chandra's Ignition and Emrakul, the Promised End do wonders as well as taking a ton of extra combats. However, you draw a metric ton of attention as soon as you draw 12+ cards.
I like adding extra wipes if needed. I run a lot of protection now because I expect more removal, but if you expect people to go wide, add some wipes to buy time.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I don't know,honestly, i never play 5+'games because they tend to take too long. But i guess you do need more defense if there are more opponents because of the additional damage you need to do in order to win. I was talking 4 man games.
But regardless of the amount of players, this deck is as about offense more than any edh deck i know. Regardless of the amount of players, the more cards you detract from your main strategy (max damage output) the weaker the deck becomes.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Goreclaw sucks. Drawpower is good.
- Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma
+ Beast Whisperer/Guardian Project (Both are kind of interchangeable. One draws a card on your commander while the other costs less devotion and works with Sneak Attack)
Those draw spells aren't even overly insane (It'd be good if they ever drew even 3 cards). You just need more cards that get you more STUFF.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Welcome to the team. I had someone filling in for your spot but ditching cards I don't need combined with the mana generation and being 4 mana is good enough to be worth a solid test. You may not be card advantage but the increased consistency is welcome.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Bolt Bend : Having one-mana answers to both all spot removal and counterspells (as long as a 4 power creature is out) is HUGE. This will stop anyone that tries to stop you outside of nontargeted effects (or effects with multiple targets, not common) , no matter what colors they run. It will also randomly swipe a nasty targeted spell or trigger in a favorable direction.
Ilharg, the Raze Boar: 6/6 trample for 5 is great. However, there are quite a few synergies with the deck. While this card does not combo with attack triggers (which is a shame), there are still a number of cards that synergize with it.
Beatsticks: Combat Damage Triggers
Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion
Hellkite Tyrant
Hydra Omnivore
Rapacious One
Balefire Dragon
Beatsticks: Extra Damage (even 7 extra damage turns this into a 5 drop that does 19 damage with extra benefits, which is considerable)
Malignus
Carnage Tyrant
Plated Crusher
Siege Behemoth
Emrakul, the Promised End
Situationally synergizes with Pathbreaker Ibex that survived to an untap if you stack your attack triggers correctly.
This card also synergizes with ALL draw effects as even when you sacrifice this, you can put it third from the top to have it available. When you draw a ton of cards, you are more likely to draw one of these cards or other cards to synergize with it.
This card synergizes with extra combats to a smaller degree. For one, the snuck in creature does not have haste, so if you want to attack with it again, you will need to target it with the Xenagos buff. This is generally very desirable for Combat Celebrant, Scourge of the Throne, and Pathbreaker Ibex but situationally is relevant for others if you desire their effects. Being a 5 mana creature makes this a lot easier to cast an extra combat on the same turn.
Lastly, the death/exile trigger is good on its own for ensuring that you don't run out of steam too quickly, but it is especially good with all library manipulation so that you can immediately access it if desired. This makes your library manipulation all the more reliable to enact your plan.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
This is indeed the most awesome set in a long time!
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
+ Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion: Yeah, it loots a lot, hits hard, is cheap.
+ Ilharg, the Raze-Boar: I went over this in detail
- Vines of Vastwood
- Territorial Hellkite: Good damage, but not good at focusing players
- Beast Whisperer: Filler for the goodies of this set.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I got it out on turn 2. I played Xenagod on turn 3, looted 4 cards that I didn't want, then drew into and played a Blood Mist. On turn 4, I attached for 20, generated some red mana, played a Rishkar's Expertise, drew 10 cards, played my free extra combat, attacked for 40, and I won that turn.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I think what qualifies as "insane" are cards that are absolute bombs in the right scenario such as
Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion
Malignus
Hydra Omnivore
Scourge of the Throne
Etali, Primal Storm (when you get lucky)
Hellkite Tyrant
Pathbreaker Ibex
Savage Ventmaw
Rapacious One
Emrakul, the Promised End
It honestly probably is ranked with the 7 drops of the deck, which I generally consider to be inferior to the above even though they have good advantages. Basically, it is there because everything else is worse rather than it being amazing.
Oh yeah, upgrades
+ Veil of Summer - Notably, this stops targeted bounce on Xenagod in noncreature form.
+ Prismatic Vista
- Autumn's Veil
- Forest
Reap the Past doesn't even look that terrible. It reminds me of a red-green Braingeyser from your graveyard. Better than Seasons' Past when your deck is heavy on several particular CMCs.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
***Edit*** What power level would you rate your Xenagos deck on a scale of 1-10, 10 being a highly tuned competitive EDH deck?
Which is where I like my decks best.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I also picked up Neheb the eternal. I like the combination of card selection/trample damage coming out early.
Xenagos is still probably my favorite deck. With everyone's help, it is my most tuned deck. It's really hard to find upgrades without spending $20+ per card at this point. The power level is real. The deck is fair. Also, it's a solid aggro edh deck which is pretty hard to pull off. As a bonus, it's a deck that speeds up games. Even if we die, it's nearly certain that we've done 30-100 damage before we went out. I really prefer this to extremely slow, "You can't play Magic" style of lock out decks.
I had a game today that was pretty rough due to an early painful quandry hitting the board. I was about to kill the person with it out, when he realized that his thaumatic compass should have flipped already. I still threw around something like 60 damage before succumbing to my opponents.
Waiting for the next set.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
This list is now on MTGNexus. I will update the list here, but most of the discussion I expect to have happen on there. I will still be around for discussion on any lists pertaining to me.
Also, I'm thinking if Bolt Bend or Autumn's Veil is stronger. One stops all types of spot removal, but the other stops counterspells as well as removal that isn't Beast Within, Chaos Warp, swords, or path.
Lastly, Scavenging Ooze or Collector Ouphe? I feel that Ouphe is generically stronger and that graveyard decks that aren't fast I'm not too worried about beating.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Also, bolt bend is a 2 for 1 when successfully pulled off. You stop their spell, and were able to reuse the spell's power for your will. Autumn's veil just stops something from happening without redirecting the damage. It's only a 1 for 1.
Are you enjoying MTG Nexus more than Salvation? Why the switch?