Looking around the interwebs I haven’t seen many decks built around Cloudhoof Kirin, but the ones I have seen just seem to stuff as many spirit and arcane spells as they can into the deck. I can understand this approach. After all, Cloudhoof requires that you CAST the spell, and it only triggers off of spirit and arcane spells, so naturally it makes sense to include as many of these spells as you can. So many of these cards seem very underwhelming for EDH/commander though, and I feel that by dedicating so many card slots to these underwhelming spells it really brings down the power level and play-ability of the deck. So I thought I'd try a different approach. This is what I currently have:
The main strategy is to play only the good spirits/arcane spells (i.e. spells that protect me, gain card advantage, etc) and utilize bounce and recursion to recast those spells when I have Cloudhoof Kirin in play. The repeatable bounce can be used in my favor as well as against my opponent's permanents. I've done some extensive goldfishing (and a few casual matches) and I've observed a few things about the deck:
- The deck is mana-hungry: Re-casting spells can get expensive. Mana rocks and other artifacts that make my cards cheaper to cast help alleviate the stress on my mana base and allow me to cast more spells in one turn.
- The deck needs cards: We need a good board state of bounceable creatures and an engine to bounce them with. There are a few ways to accomplish this in the deck, but in order to ensure that we always have a way, card draw is required. Since we're trying to mill the opponent anyway, I figured the best way to accomplish this would be with group draw cards such as Howling Mind and Jace Beleren. Not only can the group draw give us a slight political tip in our favor, but it also actually helps us with milling our opponent's decks faster.
- The deck needs incentive to recast: One of the early things I discovered from playtesting is that milling the opponent wasn't incentive enough to justify recasting my spells. I addressed this by adding more cards that care about casting that have more affect on the game. For example, Callow Jushi can help us counter spells, Solemn Simulacrum can help us ramp, Sire of the Storm can draw us cards, etc.
The deck is obviously not tier 1, but I wanted to create something that was fun to play while being able to hold it's own against other decks. I'm always looking to improve my decks and make them the best that they can be, so I would love to hear your comments or suggestions or discuss card choices.
I love decks that revolve around lesser known generals. Im guessing that the main Wincon is mill? These couple cheap cards that could help: Keening Stone and Traumatize. To help with bounce, Cloudstone Curio, Nephalia Smuggler, Minion Reflector and Conjurer's Closet might be worth looking at. Additionally, ETB creatures like Mulldrifter could be really profitable.
Yeah, mill is the main wincon. I'm trying to avoid too many mill cards because they don't do anything else to help you. Keening Stone seems too mana intensive and Traumatize seems to get worse as the game goes on.
I completely forgot about Cloudstone Curio. I definitely like how it makes my creatures recastable, but it doesn't have much utility outside of that. I'll consider putting it in but I think I may need more creatures to put it to good use. The other cards like Nephalia, reflector, and closet don't work very well with my deck because I don't have too many ETB effects and it doesn't work with Cloudhoof's ability.
Mulldrifter seems like another good choice. I'll see if I can fit that in somewhere.
This deck is very mana hungry. I suggest adding choice rocks like Gilded Lotus and Thran Dynamo. Also, to double up Caged Sun effects, add Extraplanar Lens and make all your islands Snow-Covered Islands. Thawing Glaciers is a good card to help thin the deck of lands and to guarantee a U-producing land every other turn. Having so many snow lands also warrants the inclusion of Scrying Sheets; you get to look at the first card and if it's a Snow-Covered Island, you put it into your hand, thus bettering your draw and accelerating that much needed mana (which by the way, for such a hungry deck, I find 37 lands to be too slim).
I love the idea of using monoU as a mill engine instead of the typical UB. I also love the obscure, lesser-used commander. I'd suggest things to sink mana like Sands of Delirium and Ambassador Laquatus but your deck is so mana heavy that you won't have that much mana to sink into them at the end of each turn. I feel that what you're basically doing for the first 6 turns of a game dropping lands for a long time unless you draw something cheap early game. That's a bit frightening. I suggest adding more cheaper things to protect you early on like Guard Gomazoa, Fog Bank, and Void Stalker. You can also make your spirit spells (and arcane spells) cheaper with Long-Forgotten Gohei.
You may think the casualness of your commander will have people gun for the bigger threat at the table, but most people don't have the common sense to follow commander politics. So just be aware of that. I've literally been in games running a Baron Sengir EDH against Brago, King Eternal and Thraximundar; in turn 1 - before I even dropped a land, Thraximunder casts Thoughtseize - and no, not at the WU player, whose hand was probably chocked full of choice cards (playing Brago after all), no, not at that guy, but at me, playing with Baron Sengir. So yeah, don't be so quick to assume that the unassuming isn't indiscriminately targeted.
All in all I think the deck would run more smoothly if you get some sweet, sweet rocks in there to help with acceleration. My choice picks to recommend for you would be:
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Thanks Kirby. I agree on both of your main view points (more mana and more early game presence/protection).
I just realized I don’t have Sapphire Medallion in the list so I’ll definitely need to find a spot for it in there. Thran dynamo seems like another good one. With those two cards that would put me at 10 cards that accelerate my mana. I think that will be sufficient enough for what I’m trying to accomplish. I like Extraplanar Lens but it’s such a risk in the early game and I don’t want too much of my mana ramp to be late game (like Patron of the Moon).
As for the early game I do have a few cards to help protect me. Shapestealer and Drift of Phantasms work as walls. Solemn Simulacrum is a great chump blocker. Propaganda and Web of Inertia to deter/stop attacks. And some bounce if I need to buy some time. A few more early game cards would be nice so maybe I’ll consider throwing in another wall or two. I'd like to try and keep the deck as tribal as possible however (I should have mentioned it's tribal themed, sorry)
Really not sure what to take out here. I’m leaning towards the cards that just mill (Memory Erosion maybe?), but they seem very strong for what little mana I have to invest in them. Any suggestions?
Sphinx's Tutelage. You're gonna want that when it comes out in July. I think you can leave Memory Erosion. People will tend to get annoyed by it and waste a removal on it, meaning they won't spend removal on something not so annoying. Also, it's a good deterrent against those who play small spells or storm decks.
As for what to remove, I suggest removing the following:
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Sphinx's Tutelage. You're gonna want that when it comes out in July. I think you can leave Memory Erosion. People will tend to get annoyed by it and waste a removal on it, meaning they won't spend removal on something not so annoying. Also, it's a good deterrent against those who play small spells or storm decks.
hmm, I'll consider the tutelage. At the moment I dont' have too many slots open and I don't want to commit too many slots to just mill. Maybe might consider replacing the Memory Erosion with it? Tutelage seems like it could be better once the game gets going but I don't think i could abuse it as well as some other blue decks could.
As for what to remove, I suggest removing the following:
Keiga, the Tide Star
Patron of the Moon
Meishing, the Mind Cage
Perilous Vault
Perilous Vault is too good to pass up. I like having a couple of wrath effects in each deck just in case. Keiga is just good, even if we don't have a way to really abuse him, so I'll keep him for now. Patron is probably a win more card; I could see myself removing it from the deck at one point. Meishin the Mind cage seems really good protection for the deck since my hand is going to be pretty full most of the time (hopefully). Although it's only good for late game and I imagine it puts a big target on my head since it slows the game down for everyone, so that's another one I may consider removing.
I went through my deck and removed some of the more underwhelming cards to make room for a few more mana rocks. Came across Equilibrium which seems perfect for the deck so I'm throwing it in as well. Updated the deck in my original post with a change log as well as some cards I'm possibly thinking of taking out for future suggestions/changes. Curve seems to be a bit smoother now with 27 spells costing CMC 4 or greater. I'll try and test it out soon and see how it plays against some actual decks and post some updates
Phyrexian Metamorph can help abuse ETB effects and is best friends with Kiri-Onna (cast Kiri-Onna, bounce x thing, cast Metamorph, bounce Kiri-Onna, cast Kiri-Onna, bounce x thing, Metamorph returns to your hand). You could also use some generic blue goodstuff like Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator, which is itself a spirit.
Phyrexian Metamorph can help abuse ETB effects and is best friends with Kiri-Onna (cast Kiri-Onna, bounce x thing, cast Metamorph, bounce Kiri-Onna, cast Kiri-Onna, bounce x thing, Metamorph returns to your hand). You could also use some generic blue goodstuff like Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator, which is itself a spirit.
That's a good point. I never considered Metamorph though I don't know if I have enough ETB effects to warrant running him. I'll put him in the maybe list for now. Palinchron also seems good, but I don't think I can abuse him just yet to generate infinite mana (unless I have Caged Sun out. Also on the maybe list. DeadEye Navigator I'm currently running. I feel he has the same problem as the other two suggestions in that there is not enough in the deck to currently abuse him with, but he still provides protection in the form of blink and he is a spirit. If he wasn't a spirit I wouldn't be running him. It's too bad palinchron isn't a spirit because I would be running him for sure otherwise.
I also just realized that Kira has anti-synergy with the deck. It protects my creatures, but I can't target my own creatures for bouncing shenanigans, so out it goes. Replacing it with Temple Bell since the deck likes card draw.
Sphinx's Tutelage. You're gonna want that when it comes out in July.
I'm not sure how I was so quick to gloss over this. Tutelage is absolutely bonkers in the deck. It goes much further than Memory Erosion ever could. Definitely swapping this in
Quote from gxmiter »
Phyrexian Metamorph can help abuse ETB effects and is best friends with Kiri-Onna (cast Kiri-Onna, bounce x thing, cast Metamorph, bounce Kiri-Onna, cast Kiri-Onna, bounce x thing, Metamorph returns to your hand). You could also use some generic blue goodstuff like Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator, which is itself a spirit.
So I misread your suggestion initially. Phyrexian Metamoprh won't work as well as I would like to in this deck because it's not a spirit when you cast it. I came across Shapesharer however, which seems to fill a similar roll as metamorph, but also counts as a spirit, so I'm trying it out.[/Quote]
I did a lot of fine tuning to the deck. Got rid of a lot of the more underwhelming spirit/arcane cards and focused more on a creature base that cares about cards being recast or entering the battlefield. I also added a few more low drop creatures to help with the early game. The deck plays a lot smoother now and is pretty fun to pilot! I've updated the deck and description in my original post. I've playtested against a few decks and feel pretty happy with some of the bounce engines in the deck, though I have not had an opportunity to test every card in the deck. I'll continue to update and refine the deck for anyone that's interested.
Thanks for the suggestions! Dungeon Geists is already in my list and I feel that Stormbound Geist is not a good fit for the deck. It doesn't have much utility outside of attacking which does little to support the deck's main game plan.
Tower Geist I initially dismissed when originally building the deck, but now that I have Mull drifter in the deck I notice that it looks and plays somewhat similarly with added tribal bonus. The only thing I don't like is that you have to put one of the cards in your graveyard, but maybe I can play around it with Psychic Spiral and Academy Ruins. I'll consider putting it back in, maybe replacing mulldrifter with it. Thanks for bringing the card to my attention again!
The problem with mill strategy is people running Eldrazi legendaries. I know more than a few players who keep an Ulimog in their deck for no other reason than to defend against a surprise Tunnel Vision.
I would very heavily suggest you add Denying Wind to this deck. Especially with your spell recursion. Its expensive, but being able to cast half of a kicked Sadistic Sacrament in mono-U is very, very useful.
Since you're monocolor and your commander has flying, Stormtide Leviathan and/or Strata Scythe can also serve for a commander-damage backup wincon and extra protection for you.
The problem with mill strategy is people running Eldrazi legendaries. I know more than a few players who keep an Ulimog in their deck for no other reason than to defend against a surprise Tunnel Vision.
I would very heavily suggest you add Denying Wind to this deck. Especially with your spell recursion. Its expensive, but being able to cast half of a kicked Sadistic Sacrament in mono-U is very, very useful.
A valid concern. The Eldrazi were definitely one of the first things I thought about when I drafted an original list and I actually had a lot more exile effects in my deck to combat this. I found in goldfishing though that my hand was too cluttered with exile spells and that I didn’t have enough to combat what was already on the battlefield, so I cut some out.
Currently I’m running several cards that can exile the Eldrazi (and other threats) from different zones. Tormod’s Crypt and Relic of Progenitus cover the graveyard, Dissipate is an excellent counter, and should any Eldrazi or other creatures with graveyard shenanigans manage to hit the board, Perilous Vault and Curse of the Swine will make sure they are gone for good.
Perhaps now that my list is more refined though I can look to squeeze Denying Winds back in. It’s unfortunate that it’s very expensive to cast though.What would you recommend taking out for it?
Since you're monocolor and your commander has flying, Stormtide Leviathan and/or Strata Scythe can also serve for a commander-damage backup wincon and extra protection for you.
Strata Scythe seems good for getting in there with commander damage. I just don’t like how it doesn’t really have any other synergy with the deck and is more or less a dead draw if I don’t have access to my general for some reason. I’ll consider it. I much more prefer having Crumbling Sanctuary in though as it gives me a reason to attack with all of my creatures while simultaneously giving me a boost in life (essentially).
So for anyone still following (ha), I had some opportunities to play the deck and I’ve made some minor tweaks. Mnemonic Wall was a dead card in my hand 90% of the time. Only 6 instants and sorceries to interact with in the deck, so out it goes. Drowned Rusalka also got the axe. It seems good, but is not very relevant for most purposes of recasting, and I found myself preferring to bounce creatures back to my hand instead of sacking them when it came to saving them from removal. In their place I put Denying Wind and Lantern of Insight. Wind is expensive, but is a necessity for my deck. There are just too many cards that benefit from being in the graveyard or that hose my strategy completely. It’s also nice to be able to remove the hate cards as well as the biggest threats from an opponent's deck. No idea how Lantern will do, but I like the idea of being able to control my opponent's draws. Seems to be working in modern anyway
Since I have a few 1 drop artifacts in the deck already, I decide to throw in a Trinket Mage. He has the added bonus of being a nice target to bounce and re-cast. I also threw in a Darksteel Citadel to give us a searchable land if needed. I slotted these in place of Sky Diamond and Tormod's Crypt. Sad to see the crypt go, but we only have so many slots in the deck. With Denying Wind and Trinket Mage though, I think it should be ok.
At the moment I'm pretty content with the deck and the way it plays out. It's a bit of a stretch to make it work sometimes, but not so much that the deck is unplayable. As long as you have some combination of defenders, protection, card draw, and/or removal/bounce in your opening hand you’re solid. The deck is pretty fun to pilot and I imagine that these recent tweaks will help make the deck a bit stronger and a bit more consistent. I’ll be continuing to tweak and playtest the deck (because I’m a perfectionist) but I would love to hear any feedback, comments, suggestions, or questions.
Here’s hoping we get some better spirit cards in the coming future. Until then
Jester's Cap doesn't get as much as Denyng Wind, but is easily recurred with Academy Ruins.
Perhaps Forced Fruition for some truly accelerated draw-mill? Dangerous, but exciting.
Cheers!
Jester's Cap is amazing. I don't know why I haven't considered it before. I'll definitely be swapping this in place of Denying Wind. I used to have Forced Fruition in the deck, but I found that, like most mill cards, it doesn't do anything else to interact with the game, so I cut it out. Plus I found it was more beneficial for opponents then hurtful.
Sakashima the Impostor isn't a spirit when you cast it, but it's very Kamigawa and could give you a second Cloudhoof Kirin. (or more interestingly, give you a second Myojin of Seeing Winds every turn).
It's too bad this guy isn't a spirit or else he'd be perfect. I've been thinking of adding one clone effect to the deck though since it can have nice utility with bounce, so maybe I'll give this guy a shot. Definitely didn't consider the legendary cloning utility which seems very powerful for the deck and just in general. Now I just have to find a slot to fit him in somewhere.
On a related note, I've been thinking of removing some of the more underwhelming spirits in place of card draw/deck utility. I'm trying to avoid making the deck a combo deck where I need to search for specific cards to interact with, but given the limited availability of good spirits I fear I will have to take the deck in that direction a bit if I wish to make it more powerful. I'm thinking of empowering the trinket mage synergies more by throwing in some other 1 drop artifacts such as Sensei's Divining Top, Codex Shredder and Expedition Map, but I'm not sure. I guess some more playtesting is needed first.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Codex Shredder - Mill is lacking, but great for bringing cards back to my hand, especially with Academy Ruins.
Recall - recursion
Voidmage Husher - Good ETB effect
Words of Wind - Seems like a good fit for the deck, I just dont like how the opponent gets to choose a permanent to return to their hand.
Mistform Warchief - I like how he makes even my non-spirit creatures easier to re-cast.
Thran Dynamo - Another ramp consideration
Gilded Lotus - Another ramp consideration
Dismiss into Dream - nice permanent removal with all of our bounce spells
Jace, the Mindsculptor - good card is good
Duplicate - Removal that plays well with the recasting theme of the deck
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon - Mostly for his -X option to exile the board.
Artificial Evolution - Janky, but I like the idea of changing my general's ability to "elemental" and recasting MullDrifter
Baku Altar - underwhelming when you compare to something like Bitterblossom. Still...might be nice to have some chump blockers from time to time.
Customs Depot - Help me filter through my deck
Mystic Remora - more card draw
Shrine of Piercing Vision - help me filter through my deck
Heidar, Rimewind Master - Repeatable bounce
Temporal Adept - Repeatable bounce
Vedalken Mastermind - Repeatable bounce for my guys
Cloudstone Curio - repeatable bounce for my guys
Elixir of Immortality - tutorable trinket, good for long games
Psychic Spiral eh. can be good in some scenarios. probably too narrow.
Looking around the interwebs I haven’t seen many decks built around Cloudhoof Kirin, but the ones I have seen just seem to stuff as many spirit and arcane spells as they can into the deck. I can understand this approach. After all, Cloudhoof requires that you CAST the spell, and it only triggers off of spirit and arcane spells, so naturally it makes sense to include as many of these spells as you can. So many of these cards seem very underwhelming for EDH/commander though, and I feel that by dedicating so many card slots to these underwhelming spells it really brings down the power level and play-ability of the deck. So I thought I'd try a different approach. This is what I currently have:
1x Cloudhoof Kirin
//Creatures [27]
1x Waterfront Bouncer
1x Kaijin of the Vanishing Touch
1x Kami of the Crescent Moon
1x Shape Stealer
1x Drift of Phantasms
1x Lantern Spirit
1x Trinket Mage
1x Callow Jushi
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Tower Geist
1x Tradewind Rider
1x Soulsworn Spirit
1x Chameleon Spirit
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Dungeon Geists
1x Dreamborn Muse
1x Sakashima the Imposter
1x Rushing-Tide Zubera
1x Kiri-Onna
1x Quillmane Baku
1x Sturmgeist
1x Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar
1x Keiga, the Tide Star
1x Sire of the Storm
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Myojin of Seeing Winds
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Altar of the Brood
1x Lantern of Insight
1x Sol Ring
1x Howling Mine
1x Sapphire Medallion
1x Thought Vessel
1x Extraplanar Lens
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Crystal Shard
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Urza's Incubator
1x Temple Bell
1x Perilous Vault
1x Paradise Plume
1x Jester's Cap
1x Door of Destinies
1x Crumbling Sanctuary
1x Caged Sun
//Enchantments [7]
1x Propaganda
1x Rhystic Study
1x Sphinx's Tutelage
1x Equilibrium
1x Dictate of Kruphix
1x Well of Ideas
1x Omniscience
1x Jace Beleren
1x Tamiyo, the Moon sage
//Instants and Sorceries [7]
1x Dissipate
1x Petals of Insight
1x Disrupting Shoal
1x Curse of the Swine
//Land [39]
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Terrain Generator
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Temple of the False God
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Academy Ruins
1x Magosi of the Waterveil
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Tolaria West
30x Island
Other list
Cards sorted by primary functionality
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Sol Ring
1x Sapphire Medallion
1x Thought Vessel
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Urza's Incubator
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Paradise Plume
1x Extraplanar Lens
1x Caged Sun
1x Omniscience
1x Temple of the False God
1x Terrain Generator
//Draw
1x Howling Mine
1x Kami of the Crescent Moon
1x Temple Bell
1x Dictate of Kruphix
1x Jace Beleren
1x Well of Ideas
1x Rhystic Study
1x Tower Geist
1x Petals of Insight
1x Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar
1x Sire of the Storm
1x Myojin of Seeing Winds
1x Tolaria West
//Bouncers
1x Waterfront Bouncer
1x Equilibrium
1x Crystal Shard
1x Kiri-Onna
1x Quillmake Baku
1x Tradewind Rider
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Deadeye Navigator (blinker)
1x Tidespout Tyrant
//Removal/Control
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Perilous Vault
1x Curse of the Swine
1x Dissipate
1x Callow Jushi
1x Disrupting Shoal
1x Dungeon Geists
1x Soulsworn Spirit
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
//Defense
1x Shape Stealer
1x Drift of Phantasms
1x Kaijin of the Vanishing Touch
1x Rushing-Tide Zubera
//Deck control
1x Lantern of Insight
1x Altar of the Brood
1x Sphinx's Tutelage
1x Dreamborn Muse
1x Crumbling Sanctuary
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Jester's Cap
//Misc
1x Lantern Spirit
1x Chameleon Spirit
1x Sakashima the Imposter
1x Door of Destinies
1x Sturmgeist
1x Keiga, the Tide Star
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Academy Ruins
1x Magosi, the Waterveil
1x Reliquary Tower
1x thawing glacier
Spirit/Arcane Cards
Cast Triggers
ETB Triggers
Exile effects
The deck is obviously not tier 1, but I wanted to create something that was fun to play while being able to hold it's own against other decks. I'm always looking to improve my decks and make them the best that they can be, so I would love to hear your comments or suggestions or discuss card choices.
I love decks that revolve around lesser known generals. Im guessing that the main Wincon is mill? These couple cheap cards that could help: Keening Stone and Traumatize. To help with bounce, Cloudstone Curio, Nephalia Smuggler, Minion Reflector and Conjurer's Closet might be worth looking at. Additionally, ETB creatures like Mulldrifter could be really profitable.
GSelvala, Heart of the Wilds Inf Combo/FattiesG
GWSaffi Eriksdotter Inf ComboGW
BLiliana, Heretical Healer StaxB
RKiki-Jikki, Inf Combo/ETB AbuseR
I completely forgot about Cloudstone Curio. I definitely like how it makes my creatures recastable, but it doesn't have much utility outside of that. I'll consider putting it in but I think I may need more creatures to put it to good use. The other cards like Nephalia, reflector, and closet don't work very well with my deck because I don't have too many ETB effects and it doesn't work with Cloudhoof's ability.
Mulldrifter seems like another good choice. I'll see if I can fit that in somewhere.
Thanks for the suggestions!
-Dan
I love the idea of using monoU as a mill engine instead of the typical UB. I also love the obscure, lesser-used commander. I'd suggest things to sink mana like Sands of Delirium and Ambassador Laquatus but your deck is so mana heavy that you won't have that much mana to sink into them at the end of each turn. I feel that what you're basically doing for the first 6 turns of a game dropping lands for a long time unless you draw something cheap early game. That's a bit frightening. I suggest adding more cheaper things to protect you early on like Guard Gomazoa, Fog Bank, and Void Stalker. You can also make your spirit spells (and arcane spells) cheaper with Long-Forgotten Gohei.
You may think the casualness of your commander will have people gun for the bigger threat at the table, but most people don't have the common sense to follow commander politics. So just be aware of that. I've literally been in games running a Baron Sengir EDH against Brago, King Eternal and Thraximundar; in turn 1 - before I even dropped a land, Thraximunder casts Thoughtseize - and no, not at the WU player, whose hand was probably chocked full of choice cards (playing Brago after all), no, not at that guy, but at me, playing with Baron Sengir. So yeah, don't be so quick to assume that the unassuming isn't indiscriminately targeted.
All in all I think the deck would run more smoothly if you get some sweet, sweet rocks in there to help with acceleration. My choice picks to recommend for you would be:
3 Extraplanar Lens
4 Thran Dynamo
3 Long-Forgotten Gohei
0 Thawing Glaciers
2 Fog Bank
2 Void Stalker
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I just realized I don’t have Sapphire Medallion in the list so I’ll definitely need to find a spot for it in there. Thran dynamo seems like another good one. With those two cards that would put me at 10 cards that accelerate my mana. I think that will be sufficient enough for what I’m trying to accomplish. I like Extraplanar Lens but it’s such a risk in the early game and I don’t want too much of my mana ramp to be late game (like Patron of the Moon).
As for the early game I do have a few cards to help protect me. Shapestealer and Drift of Phantasms work as walls. Solemn Simulacrum is a great chump blocker. Propaganda and Web of Inertia to deter/stop attacks. And some bounce if I need to buy some time. A few more early game cards would be nice so maybe I’ll consider throwing in another wall or two. I'd like to try and keep the deck as tribal as possible however (I should have mentioned it's tribal themed, sorry)
Really not sure what to take out here. I’m leaning towards the cards that just mill (Memory Erosion maybe?), but they seem very strong for what little mana I have to invest in them. Any suggestions?
As for what to remove, I suggest removing the following:
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
hmm, I'll consider the tutelage. At the moment I dont' have too many slots open and I don't want to commit too many slots to just mill. Maybe might consider replacing the Memory Erosion with it? Tutelage seems like it could be better once the game gets going but I don't think i could abuse it as well as some other blue decks could.
Perilous Vault is too good to pass up. I like having a couple of wrath effects in each deck just in case. Keiga is just good, even if we don't have a way to really abuse him, so I'll keep him for now. Patron is probably a win more card; I could see myself removing it from the deck at one point. Meishin the Mind cage seems really good protection for the deck since my hand is going to be pretty full most of the time (hopefully). Although it's only good for late game and I imagine it puts a big target on my head since it slows the game down for everyone, so that's another one I may consider removing.
I went through my deck and removed some of the more underwhelming cards to make room for a few more mana rocks. Came across Equilibrium which seems perfect for the deck so I'm throwing it in as well. Updated the deck in my original post with a change log as well as some cards I'm possibly thinking of taking out for future suggestions/changes. Curve seems to be a bit smoother now with 27 spells costing CMC 4 or greater. I'll try and test it out soon and see how it plays against some actual decks and post some updates
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
That's a good point. I never considered Metamorph though I don't know if I have enough ETB effects to warrant running him. I'll put him in the maybe list for now. Palinchron also seems good, but I don't think I can abuse him just yet to generate infinite mana (unless I have Caged Sun out. Also on the maybe list. DeadEye Navigator I'm currently running. I feel he has the same problem as the other two suggestions in that there is not enough in the deck to currently abuse him with, but he still provides protection in the form of blink and he is a spirit. If he wasn't a spirit I wouldn't be running him. It's too bad palinchron isn't a spirit because I would be running him for sure otherwise.
I also just realized that Kira has anti-synergy with the deck. It protects my creatures, but I can't target my own creatures for bouncing shenanigans, so out it goes. Replacing it with Temple Bell since the deck likes card draw.
I'm not sure how I was so quick to gloss over this. Tutelage is absolutely bonkers in the deck. It goes much further than Memory Erosion ever could. Definitely swapping this in
So I misread your suggestion initially. Phyrexian Metamoprh won't work as well as I would like to in this deck because it's not a spirit when you cast it. I came across Shapesharer however, which seems to fill a similar roll as metamorph, but also counts as a spirit, so I'm trying it out.[/Quote]
I did a lot of fine tuning to the deck. Got rid of a lot of the more underwhelming spirit/arcane cards and focused more on a creature base that cares about cards being recast or entering the battlefield. I also added a few more low drop creatures to help with the early game. The deck plays a lot smoother now and is pretty fun to pilot! I've updated the deck and description in my original post. I've playtested against a few decks and feel pretty happy with some of the bounce engines in the deck, though I have not had an opportunity to test every card in the deck. I'll continue to update and refine the deck for anyone that's interested.
Tower Geist
Stormbound Geist
Dungeon Geists
Tower Geist I initially dismissed when originally building the deck, but now that I have Mull drifter in the deck I notice that it looks and plays somewhat similarly with added tribal bonus. The only thing I don't like is that you have to put one of the cards in your graveyard, but maybe I can play around it with Psychic Spiral and Academy Ruins. I'll consider putting it back in, maybe replacing mulldrifter with it. Thanks for bringing the card to my attention again!
I would very heavily suggest you add Denying Wind to this deck. Especially with your spell recursion. Its expensive, but being able to cast half of a kicked Sadistic Sacrament in mono-U is very, very useful.
Since you're monocolor and your commander has flying, Stormtide Leviathan and/or Strata Scythe can also serve for a commander-damage backup wincon and extra protection for you.
Nicol Bolas Dragon Dick
Hanna, Ship's Navigator Heart-attack Stax
Oona, Queen of the Fae Fairy Dance
Vhati Il-Dal Tree of Woe
Scion of the Ur-Dragon Durgensturm
Jolrael, Empress of Beasts Jamuraa's Army
Liliana, Heretical Healer Rise from your Graves and Proliferate
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Angelic Judgment
A valid concern. The Eldrazi were definitely one of the first things I thought about when I drafted an original list and I actually had a lot more exile effects in my deck to combat this. I found in goldfishing though that my hand was too cluttered with exile spells and that I didn’t have enough to combat what was already on the battlefield, so I cut some out.
Currently I’m running several cards that can exile the Eldrazi (and other threats) from different zones. Tormod’s Crypt and Relic of Progenitus cover the graveyard, Dissipate is an excellent counter, and should any Eldrazi or other creatures with graveyard shenanigans manage to hit the board, Perilous Vault and Curse of the Swine will make sure they are gone for good.
Perhaps now that my list is more refined though I can look to squeeze Denying Winds back in. It’s unfortunate that it’s very expensive to cast though.What would you recommend taking out for it?
Strata Scythe seems good for getting in there with commander damage. I just don’t like how it doesn’t really have any other synergy with the deck and is more or less a dead draw if I don’t have access to my general for some reason. I’ll consider it. I much more prefer having Crumbling Sanctuary in though as it gives me a reason to attack with all of my creatures while simultaneously giving me a boost in life (essentially).
Since I have a few 1 drop artifacts in the deck already, I decide to throw in a Trinket Mage. He has the added bonus of being a nice target to bounce and re-cast. I also threw in a Darksteel Citadel to give us a searchable land if needed. I slotted these in place of Sky Diamond and Tormod's Crypt. Sad to see the crypt go, but we only have so many slots in the deck. With Denying Wind and Trinket Mage though, I think it should be ok.
At the moment I'm pretty content with the deck and the way it plays out. It's a bit of a stretch to make it work sometimes, but not so much that the deck is unplayable. As long as you have some combination of defenders, protection, card draw, and/or removal/bounce in your opening hand you’re solid. The deck is pretty fun to pilot and I imagine that these recent tweaks will help make the deck a bit stronger and a bit more consistent. I’ll be continuing to tweak and playtest the deck (because I’m a perfectionist) but I would love to hear any feedback, comments, suggestions, or questions.
Here’s hoping we get some better spirit cards in the coming future. Until then
Perhaps Forced Fruition for some truly accelerated draw-mill? Dangerous, but exciting.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Jester's Cap is amazing. I don't know why I haven't considered it before. I'll definitely be swapping this in place of Denying Wind. I used to have Forced Fruition in the deck, but I found that, like most mill cards, it doesn't do anything else to interact with the game, so I cut it out. Plus I found it was more beneficial for opponents then hurtful.
It's too bad this guy isn't a spirit or else he'd be perfect. I've been thinking of adding one clone effect to the deck though since it can have nice utility with bounce, so maybe I'll give this guy a shot. Definitely didn't consider the legendary cloning utility which seems very powerful for the deck and just in general. Now I just have to find a slot to fit him in somewhere.
On a related note, I've been thinking of removing some of the more underwhelming spirits in place of card draw/deck utility. I'm trying to avoid making the deck a combo deck where I need to search for specific cards to interact with, but given the limited availability of good spirits I fear I will have to take the deck in that direction a bit if I wish to make it more powerful. I'm thinking of empowering the trinket mage synergies more by throwing in some other 1 drop artifacts such as Sensei's Divining Top, Codex Shredder and Expedition Map, but I'm not sure. I guess some more playtesting is needed first.