Leonin Sun Standard could be interesting too, although I don't like the fact that it's not an enchantment and I'm probably better spending my mana every turn to generate more tokens.
you also have the option of using gerrard's battle cry it is an enchantment with a similar though overall weaker effect but if you want to multiply the effectiveness of your tokens for an alpha strike with an enchantment this is one way to do it
Yeah, I saw both of these cards and had the same conclusion about Leonin Sun Standard: not an enchantment and better using this mana to produce tokens anyway. Same with Gerrard's Battle Cry. I feel like Cathars' Crusade and Crescendo of War are A LOT more powerful overall. It doesn't need further mana investment (less complicated maths, although I don't care about that), and Crescendo of War with something like Island Sanctuary, Martyr's Cause, Sphere of Safety, Ghostly Prison, Mystic Barrier, Righteous Aura or simply mana open for Heliod tokens can make my opponents kill each others. That thing ticks every upkeep, so after 4 turns it's +16/0 to each attacking creatures and my own blocking creatures. Imagine with 5 or 6 tokens into play what it represents, or if I play Starfield of Nyx (or Opalescence if I decide to play both).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It's almost like if WotC was reading this thread. Helm of the Gods
Definitely seems playable. With Skullclamp, I'll need to start thinking about Steelshaper's Gift. I do value Crescendo of War as better than this though, so it's definitely not an auto-include of any sort. Being able to add enchantments at instant speed is great and Heliod could easily kill in 2 swings with that piece of equipment though, so yeah, it probably needs some playtest. If any EDH deck wants this, it's probably this one.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
So I was thinking, what about the new card plus Ethereal Armor? It could usually be a cheap +16+16 first strike on an indestructible creature!
What I don't like about auras is how you can get 2-for-1'ed and how it fall off Heliod if he's not a creature anymore. So I don't really plan on playing that. As an equipment however it's different, I can equip a token and then equip the other post-combat as a blocker. If the creatures dies, the equipment stays. I like that more.
I have no idea what to cut though. I think I will wait to have fully test the deck, I'll have a better idea of how good Crescendo of War is at that point. Right now, I feel like this equipment is a little lackluster, it really missed some relevant ability like lifelink, trample or instant speed equip (remember Cranial Plating). It's just a buff, a conditional buff.
Only 32 paper cards missing before playtesting. I'm ordering a couple of other cheap cards this weekend and will try to trade for the rest. Will be ready before they release Starfield of Nyx in 3 weeks.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Got my hands on 90 cards for the deck, only 10 missing. I'll be ready to start playing the deck as soon as I get my hands on Starfield of Nyx, which should be July 17th (except if someone gets 1 on prerelease and wants to trade it).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I got myself 80+ cards right now and playtested with some proxy.
I am considering removing Sigil of the Empty Throne... Heliod's token do not trigger it, which means that it gives me at most 1 token every turn... It is not very performing at 5cmc in my opinion...
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I got myself 80+ cards right now and playtested with some proxy.
I am considering removing Sigil of the Empty Throne... Heliod's token do not trigger it, which means that it gives me at most 1 token every turn... It is not very performing at 5cmc in my opinion...
Yeah, I look forward to test it. With 35 enchantments, if it's not good enough, I can't imagine another deck playing it. 4/4s are good but it would be better if it triggered for itself (for enchantments ETB instead of being casted, now that would be great).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
How do you feel about the amount of card draw you have? It looks quite light to me.
Crescendo of War is a two-edged sword. I'm not too sure how many tokens the deck manages to produce in a given game. Keep in mind that token decks typically generate between 10-30 tokens each game, so you'll want similar numbers if you plan to use Crescendo.
If you are planning to use Delaying Shield, you could also consider Phyrexian Unlife.
Parallax Wave is an insanely strong card. Moreso with the new Opalescence. You'll love it. You should also give more weight to Dictate of Heliod, considering it'll keep your Heliod tokens alive through Starfield of Nyx, and can also be used as a neat combat trick.
How do you feel about the amount of card draw you have? It looks quite light to me.
Crescendo of War is a two-edged sword. I'm not too sure how many tokens the deck manages to produce in a given game. Keep in mind that token decks typically generate between 10-30 tokens each game, so you'll want similar numbers if you plan to use Crescendo.
If you are planning to use Delaying Shield, you could also consider Phyrexian Unlife.
Parallax Wave is an insanely strong card. Moreso with the new Opalescence. You'll love it. You should also give more weight to Dictate of Heliod, considering it'll keep your Heliod tokens alive through Starfield of Nyx, and can also be used as a neat combat trick.
Needless to say, mono-white has a hard time to draw cards. But with Heliod, we always have something to do and we get card advantage, with isn't card draw but still.
We've got Enlightened Tutor to find any of these. I know it's still pretty narrow. If you have suggestions, I wouldn't hate having one or two more cards, that's for sure. I know about Staff of Nin, but it's 6 mana, doesn't draw immediatly. I think we have to consider all the card advantage this deck has, still. Heliod produces enchantment creatures. Crucible + fetch is awesome, really. Scroll Rack does a lot to get any form of card advantage card. Also, boardwipes are sometimes card advantage.
On Crescendo of War, I realize that. I don't want to play it before having 8 mana per turn (2 Heliod per turns). But when I have enough mana to produce multiple tokens, I think it's just a really powerful effect and can win the game on its own. I have to watch for Avenger of Zendikar, that's for sure. It's not a turn-4 play. But played carefully, I'm pretty sure it's one of the most powerful card of the deck.
Phyrexian Unlife works great with Delaying Shield. I totally forgot that one. Still, I'm not it's worth it, because by itself, all Phyrexian Unlife does is adding 10 extra life after you hit 0, and that's if nobody holds Krosan Grip in case you do something crazy. I'm not sure I want to depend on that too much.
Parallax Wave is insane, yeah. Dictate of Heliod has always been a consideration. I will need to start playing the deck first, but it's my sideboard right now, and really near making the cut. I will see what enchantments are underpar and probably try it. It's 5 mana though, would have been awesome at 4 mana (same as Heliod tokens), but we can't have everything I guess.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It was one of the major obstacles I had with my mono w deck. Since I was already intending to use Faith's Reward effects, I decided to double down by using eggs to get around the card draw issue.
I was curious to how other mono w decks were solving the problem.
You could probably look into coercive portal for potentially one card a turn.
Pursuit of Knowledge is a card that I run. It's an enchantment, but I'm not sure if there is a way to abuse it in your deck.
Memory Jar is something I end up shoving into most of my decks.
I see that you are using Crucible. Cycle lands could be a decent addition as well. When I redo my mana base I intend to put cycle lands into my deck as well.
It was one of the major obstacles I had with my mono w deck. Since I was already intending to use Faith's Reward effects, I decided to double down by using eggs to get around the card draw issue.
I was curious to how other mono w decks were solving the problem.
You could probably look into coercive portal for potentially one card a turn.
Pursuit of Knowledge is a card that I run. It's an enchantment, but I'm not sure if there is a way to abuse it in your deck.
Memory Jar is something I end up shoving into most of my decks.
I see that you are using Crucible. Cycle lands could be a decent addition as well. When I redo my mana base I intend to put cycle lands into my deck as well.
Portal only works for 1v1, in any other scenario, my opponents will be happy to Planar Cleansing all my enchantments and will vote carnage. In 1v1, I can just vote homage and it works since the vote is tied.
Memory Jar can be interesting. Pursuit of Knowledge is only good with any of the 3 other cards drawing me cards (Mind's Eye, Clamp and Sundial). I don't imagine myself skipping 3 draw steps for it. It's really good with Jar though. I will need to start thinking about Memory Jar, although I don't want to end up playing this card in all my 5 mono-colored decks lol.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I was considering to add Slate of Ancestry to the deck. I usually have at least Heliod and 3-4 tokens on the filed, and not many cards in my hand (usually lands)...
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Have you considered Orim's Praayer. Seems like a good discourager/minimizer. Works interestingly with Delaying Shield. And in multiplayer, if a player sends a single creature at you and 20 at someone else... Well I can't think of anyone who would make such a mistake but the point remains.
Yeah, I saw both of these cards and had the same conclusion about Leonin Sun Standard: not an enchantment and better using this mana to produce tokens anyway. Same with Gerrard's Battle Cry. I feel like Cathars' Crusade and Crescendo of War are A LOT more powerful overall. It doesn't need further mana investment (less complicated maths, although I don't care about that), and Crescendo of War with something like Island Sanctuary, Martyr's Cause, Sphere of Safety, Ghostly Prison, Mystic Barrier, Righteous Aura or simply mana open for Heliod tokens can make my opponents kill each others. That thing ticks every upkeep, so after 4 turns it's +16/0 to each attacking creatures and my own blocking creatures. Imagine with 5 or 6 tokens into play what it represents, or if I play Starfield of Nyx (or Opalescence if I decide to play both).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Helm of the Gods
Definitely seems playable. With Skullclamp, I'll need to start thinking about Steelshaper's Gift. I do value Crescendo of War as better than this though, so it's definitely not an auto-include of any sort. Being able to add enchantments at instant speed is great and Heliod could easily kill in 2 swings with that piece of equipment though, so yeah, it probably needs some playtest. If any EDH deck wants this, it's probably this one.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
So I was thinking, what about the new card plus Ethereal Armor? It could usually be a cheap +16+16 first strike on an indestructible creature!
What I don't like about auras is how you can get 2-for-1'ed and how it fall off Heliod if he's not a creature anymore. So I don't really plan on playing that. As an equipment however it's different, I can equip a token and then equip the other post-combat as a blocker. If the creatures dies, the equipment stays. I like that more.
I have no idea what to cut though. I think I will wait to have fully test the deck, I'll have a better idea of how good Crescendo of War is at that point. Right now, I feel like this equipment is a little lackluster, it really missed some relevant ability like lifelink, trample or instant speed equip (remember Cranial Plating). It's just a buff, a conditional buff.
Only 32 paper cards missing before playtesting. I'm ordering a couple of other cheap cards this weekend and will try to trade for the rest. Will be ready before they release Starfield of Nyx in 3 weeks.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Heliod is coming right from space to Earth for the battle!
He should not go unnoticed lol
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Love the Heliod art!
I got myself 80+ cards right now and playtested with some proxy.
I am considering removing Sigil of the Empty Throne... Heliod's token do not trigger it, which means that it gives me at most 1 token every turn... It is not very performing at 5cmc in my opinion...
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Yeah, I look forward to test it. With 35 enchantments, if it's not good enough, I can't imagine another deck playing it. 4/4s are good but it would be better if it triggered for itself (for enchantments ETB instead of being casted, now that would be great).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Crescendo of War is a two-edged sword. I'm not too sure how many tokens the deck manages to produce in a given game. Keep in mind that token decks typically generate between 10-30 tokens each game, so you'll want similar numbers if you plan to use Crescendo.
If you are planning to use Delaying Shield, you could also consider Phyrexian Unlife.
Parallax Wave is an insanely strong card. Moreso with the new Opalescence. You'll love it. You should also give more weight to Dictate of Heliod, considering it'll keep your Heliod tokens alive through Starfield of Nyx, and can also be used as a neat combat trick.
Norin the Wary (BRB) R
Blind Seer (Hose Everything) U
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy (Double Dipping) UBR
Borborygmos Enraged (Crush Mountains, Eat Forests) GR
Kresh the Bloodbraided (Get Wild) GRB
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (Test Your Math) WUR
Toshiro Umezawa (Instant Reanimation) B
Dralnu, Lich Lord (Mill then Will) UB
Rakdos the Defiler (Death at any Cost) BR
Iwamori of the Open Fist (Wheel and Deal) G
Crovax, Ascendant Hero (Balancing Eggs) W
Currently: Skullclamp and Seer's Sundial, Mind's Eye
Card advantage: Tithe, Gift of Estates, Land Tax, Replenish, Open the Vaults, Plea for Guidance, Mobilization, Heliod, Sacred Mesa, both Elspeths, Crucible of Worlds, Endless Horizons
We've got Enlightened Tutor to find any of these. I know it's still pretty narrow. If you have suggestions, I wouldn't hate having one or two more cards, that's for sure. I know about Staff of Nin, but it's 6 mana, doesn't draw immediatly. I think we have to consider all the card advantage this deck has, still. Heliod produces enchantment creatures. Crucible + fetch is awesome, really. Scroll Rack does a lot to get any form of card advantage card. Also, boardwipes are sometimes card advantage.
On Crescendo of War, I realize that. I don't want to play it before having 8 mana per turn (2 Heliod per turns). But when I have enough mana to produce multiple tokens, I think it's just a really powerful effect and can win the game on its own. I have to watch for Avenger of Zendikar, that's for sure. It's not a turn-4 play. But played carefully, I'm pretty sure it's one of the most powerful card of the deck.
Phyrexian Unlife works great with Delaying Shield. I totally forgot that one. Still, I'm not it's worth it, because by itself, all Phyrexian Unlife does is adding 10 extra life after you hit 0, and that's if nobody holds Krosan Grip in case you do something crazy. I'm not sure I want to depend on that too much.
Parallax Wave is insane, yeah. Dictate of Heliod has always been a consideration. I will need to start playing the deck first, but it's my sideboard right now, and really near making the cut. I will see what enchantments are underpar and probably try it. It's 5 mana though, would have been awesome at 4 mana (same as Heliod tokens), but we can't have everything I guess.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I was curious to how other mono w decks were solving the problem.
You could probably look into coercive portal for potentially one card a turn.
Pursuit of Knowledge is a card that I run. It's an enchantment, but I'm not sure if there is a way to abuse it in your deck.
Memory Jar is something I end up shoving into most of my decks.
I see that you are using Crucible. Cycle lands could be a decent addition as well. When I redo my mana base I intend to put cycle lands into my deck as well.
Norin the Wary (BRB) R
Blind Seer (Hose Everything) U
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy (Double Dipping) UBR
Borborygmos Enraged (Crush Mountains, Eat Forests) GR
Kresh the Bloodbraided (Get Wild) GRB
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (Test Your Math) WUR
Toshiro Umezawa (Instant Reanimation) B
Dralnu, Lich Lord (Mill then Will) UB
Rakdos the Defiler (Death at any Cost) BR
Iwamori of the Open Fist (Wheel and Deal) G
Crovax, Ascendant Hero (Balancing Eggs) W
Memory Jar can be interesting. Pursuit of Knowledge is only good with any of the 3 other cards drawing me cards (Mind's Eye, Clamp and Sundial). I don't imagine myself skipping 3 draw steps for it. It's really good with Jar though. I will need to start thinking about Memory Jar, although I don't want to end up playing this card in all my 5 mono-colored decks lol.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I was considering to add Slate of Ancestry to the deck. I usually have at least Heliod and 3-4 tokens on the filed, and not many cards in my hand (usually lands)...
What do you think about that?
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.