I looked at the actual version of this deck and i said to myself; this look nice.
At first i thought this is gonna be an ok commander deck. not too strong, not too weak.
Like its seem it has no clear win con, lack of staple, no cyclo rift, no wrath, no bribery, etc.
And then i played this deck a couple of time on MTGO and OMG.
This deck is insane. As you said, you can really do everything in this deck. You can play aggro, you can play control, you can play politics, its amazing. I will need a ton of hour of play to understand the place of every card. But men i enjoy it a lot. I know theres a lot of person who would say, you cant just take a deck from someone else and play it. You have to make it your own, you have to adjust the deck to your playstyle. I always do this, but this time theres no way I touch this build. Not until a lot of play loll. I just wanted to post my appreciation and thats why i created an acount on mtgsalvation. I mean, just to thank you.
Thank you
PS: I know, im bad in english. Sry for that
I'm glad you like the deck! It definitely takes a lot of play time to get a really solid feel for how to play it.
Definitely don't be afraid to make meta calls, though! Sometimes you need more artifact hate, or more graveyard hate, or whatever else.
I want to extend a huge thank you to both ZenN and ISBPathfinder for all their hard work and enthusiasm over the years in their respective Primers. Jenara was the first EDH deck I made after buying the original Commander Precons. I fell in love with the deck and have been playing it nearly exclusively off and on since 2012. The deck has changed a lot since then, necessitated by bannings, EDH-specific rules changes, and rules changes to all of Magic! But the deck survives and I honestly think it's one of the best and most resilient "fair" decks out there.
I'm posting this to try to spark some discussion about the commander we all love. Who else is still rallying behind this great lady? What innovations have you made? What are your pet cards? How can we continue to make Jenara a force to be reckoned with?
I usually win by combo'ing, so I'm not sure "fair" is fair. Lately, I've used the Body Double, Mirror Entity, Reveillark, value-creature combo mostly. Value creature of choice is Venser, Shaper Savant but I have resorted to Acidic Slime when there were only lands to cope with.
I still occasionally use the infinite-turn combo as well.
I usually win by combo'ing, so I'm not sure "fair" is fair. Lately, I've used the Body Double, Mirror Entity, Reveillark, value-creature combo mostly. Value creature of choice is Venser, Shaper Savant but I have resorted to Acidic Slime when there were only lands to cope with.
I still occasionally use the infinite-turn combo as well.
Good point. I don't personally run Mirror Entity, though the rest of the combo is there. I have stumbled into infinite turn loops with all the recursion present in the deck, but I don't rely too heavily on that to win. Maybe I should have said "mostly fair."
Azami, Lady of Scrolls is one of my all-time favorite cards and I've been looking for a deck to run it in. It seems pretty great in Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, but I wonder if it could have a home in some Jenara builds, too. Let me know how it pans out!
I was playing a game and I had Azami and a few of her Wizard friends in play when some knucklehead ultimated Gideon, Champion of Justice. I had seven cards in hand, everyone else was hellbent. I played a Temple Garden on my turn and waited for him to attack me. I sworded his Gideon and a few turns later assembled the infinite turn combo just because I could; I didn't need to.
My deck has a few extra Wizards than is typical and I have drawn a bunch of cards off of Azami. Her casting cost is high enough that opponents are often hellbent when she lands.
I love some of the card choices in your list, especially the wizards! I always forget Qasali Pridemage is a wizard. (Aven Mindcensor is too if you're into that ) One wizard I've been really digging lately is Spellseeker, especially if you run Cyclonic Rift.
One thing I've been concerned with more recently is feeling like I run too many tutors when what I often want is straight-up card draw. I suspect Azami, Lady of Scrolls helps with that some, but do you ever run into that problem, as well? And speaking of tutors, one that I don't run is Intuition. Out of curiosity what do you typically grab?
The only time I remember using Intuition I grabbed the creatures to set up the combo. I think it was Mirror Entity, Body Double, and Venser, Shaper Savant. My opponent gave me Venser, which was probably a mistake as that gave me the opportunity to get him into the yard by flashing him under a bus. All I had to do then was tutor up Reveillark and go off.
I'm not at all sure this is the deck for Intuition, but I'm still giving it a try.
Spellseeker is one I haven't seen. I've abandoned Standard completely and I don't really keep up. I'd have to have more than one spell that was really worth the effect even if Cyclonic Rift is the best thing since sliced bread.
My sub-themes are Wizards and Flickering, as you can probably see, so I gravitate towards EtB effects. Azami is just so crazy good that I make an exception for her.
Add Pact of Negation to that list. Very strong arguments. I don't know that I am going to swap Voidslime or Disallow but Dissipate can go. I'm not likely springing for Mana Drain anyway even at the Iconic Master's price. That may sound silly looking at my deck list but my financial situation has changed drastically since I built this deck. Pull from Tomorrow isn't unreasonable as much as I like the life-gain from Sphinx's Revelation - mainly because I have so little. I've got nine targets for Spellseeker now, eleven is do-able. That's probably enough.
Card draw is super important. Magus of the Future helps with this as does Oracle of Mul Daya - together they're absurd - but certainly Azami is a house in a deck with nearly a dozen wizards.
Is there an update I'm not aware of? Intuition is certainly legal in multi-player Commander.
I too will confirm that Spellseeker is legit. Even if you run only 10 targets for her, I bet that you'll want those cards available at any point of a game.
Yes, Intuition is certainly still legal. It seems it's not even banned in Duel Commander. However it might be banned in MTGO 1v1 Commander as it uses its own unique banlist. Perhaps you are thinking of Gifts Ungiven?
Has anyone tried Bramble Sovereign? It's really impressed me in my Yeva, Nature's Herald deck but, then again, mono G is much more limited than the card selection Bant offers. Thoughts?
I too will confirm that Spellseeker is legit. Even if you run only 10 targets for her, I bet that you'll want those cards available at any point of a game.
I'm convinced. I run Trinket Mage with only four targets, but then, one must have one's Top.
Bramble Sovereign is a fine card. It acts, in function, similarly to Deadeye Navigator. They both have the same relative weaknesses in that they depend on other creatures in order to be effective. The pros of the Sovereign is its CMC, the fact that you can trigger it for opponents (in order to generate political goodwill), and it actually creates a body that sticks around on the battlefield. However, it's weak to instant speed removal and requires that all of your relevant creatures come with an additional 1G cost. For Deadeye, the advantage is that once it's Bonded to a creature you can spam that ETB ability at instant speed for as much mana as you want. It's cons are its CMC and the fact that it hits only your creatures.
So, in short, the Sovereign depends on VOLUME of creatures and mana advantage. Deadeye depends on QUALITY of creatures and mana advantage. I hope this makes sense.
Great evaluation! As it stands, I don't run Deadeye Navigator; I prefer Eldrazi Displacer for my flickering needs. Comparing Bramble Sovereign to those two definitely reveals some of the weaknesses of the card. It also reminds me a bit of Faerie Artisans, another card I don't run (IT'S A TRAP!). It would seem Bant just offers too many better options for Bramble Sovereign to warrant inclusion.
Which utility lands do people play and how many? Lately I've been finding less opportunity to take advantage of Alchemist's Refuge, especially without the ramp and tutoring Primeval Titan provided. Although I tend to avoid tapped lands like the plague, I have been considering Tolaria West for the ability to tutor lands (and a few other cards). Some others I've been considering after initially dismissing them are Ancient Tomb, Cavern of Souls, and Yavimaya Hollow.
Which utility lands do people play and how many? Lately I've been finding less opportunity to take advantage of Alchemist's Refuge, especially without the ramp and tutoring Primeval Titan provided. Although I tend to avoid tapped lands like the plague, I have been considering Tolaria West for the ability to tutor lands (and a few other cards). Some others I've been considering after initially dismissing them are Ancient Tomb, Cavern of Souls, and Yavimaya Hollow.
Anyone have experience with any of these?
I have Alchemist's Refuge but I do not remember ever using it. My deck also includes Academy Ruins and Kor Haven but that's about it for utility lands. I have Cavern of Souls if you want to call that a utility land. The list is not far above.
Wargate has to be one of the best tutors ever printed in Bant colors. It's just so good. It hardly matters if it costs more mana, because it puts an permanent into play, and they have to counter the tutor, not the target. You could tutor your Survival of the Fittest into play, or a Gaea's Cradle. It ramps by hitting Mana Crypt too.
I run Refuge and Gavony Township and have to admit I don’t think I’ve activated either more than twice over the extensive period I’ve played my list.
Refuge seems like the only one worth keeping, but because it requires three lands just to activate I’d say the spells you’d use it with likely top out at 4cmc which isn’t that amazing. Maybe some clever Phantasmal Image shenanigans are possible but I’m not even sure about that.
Good point about Phantasmal Image. If we are typically only able to cast something with cmc=4/5 after activating Alchemist's Refuge, sneaky clones are probably as good as it gets, barring a few other shenanigans. Maybe that's good enough to continue to warrant its inclusion? I used to get so much mileage out of the Refuge before Primeval Titan was banned; it was usually one of the first two lands I'd grab with Prime Time, but I'm not so sure about it anymore. What other utility land(s) might be better? High Market, Yavimaya Hollow, and Ancient Tomb are some I'm considering.
One land that has actually been great for me is Minamo, School at Water's Edge. Admittedly there are only a few truly useful targets in my list, but sometimes untapping Jenara, Asura of War or Kor Haven can be the difference-maker. Despite the low number of targets, since it taps for U, it's pretty easy to slot in over an Island if you can afford the lower basic count.
It's nice to finally see the list! Wow, it's much more similar to your Jenara list than I was imagining, which is kind of nice actually. Just skimming over it, a couple cards that intrigue me are Shalai, Voice of Plenty and Archon of Valor's Reach. Have you had good results with them? Are they cards you'd consider adding to Jenara if you still played her?
The list looks solid, ZenN. How has Shalai, Voice of Plenty been for you? I like the board-wide Hexproof she grants a lot and she incidentally becomes an infinite mana outlet as well. Combined with her CMC and her stats, and I think she's a solid card.
On the topic of utility lands:
Since Tri-Color decks are VERY color-hungry by nature, it's absolutely essential that if you ARE running nonbasics that don't add colors to your mana pool they need to be seriously amazing. Like, Volrath's Stronghold kind of amazing. And, unfortunately, I don't see many options in Bant colors that are stunning to me. Maaaaybe Ancient Tomb, but even that's a stretch. Kor Haven is probably the only one I might consider for the deck. My problem with Alchemist's Refuge is that it requires a signficant amount of mana to take advantage of, which often leaves you unable to protect your spell from a Counterspell effect. This can be a pro, since you might be able to force the Blue player to tap out during their turn and cast your REAL spell uncontested. Or it can be a con, since it does require that you commit a significant amount of mana to casting the spell.
I'm glad you like the deck! It definitely takes a lot of play time to get a really solid feel for how to play it.
Definitely don't be afraid to make meta calls, though! Sometimes you need more artifact hate, or more graveyard hate, or whatever else.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
I want to extend a huge thank you to both ZenN and ISBPathfinder for all their hard work and enthusiasm over the years in their respective Primers. Jenara was the first EDH deck I made after buying the original Commander Precons. I fell in love with the deck and have been playing it nearly exclusively off and on since 2012. The deck has changed a lot since then, necessitated by bannings, EDH-specific rules changes, and rules changes to all of Magic! But the deck survives and I honestly think it's one of the best and most resilient "fair" decks out there.
I'm posting this to try to spark some discussion about the commander we all love. Who else is still rallying behind this great lady? What innovations have you made? What are your pet cards? How can we continue to make Jenara a force to be reckoned with?
Alright, rant's over. Here's my list as reference for those interested! http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jenara-asura-of-war-creature-control/?cb=1544577686
I still occasionally use the infinite-turn combo as well.
I like to change the wincon every so often, but I just don't get to play much lately. I really want to give Laboratory Maniac, Azami, Lady of Scrolls and Mind Over Matter a try.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Good point. I don't personally run Mirror Entity, though the rest of the combo is there. I have stumbled into infinite turn loops with all the recursion present in the deck, but I don't rely too heavily on that to win. Maybe I should have said "mostly fair."
Azami, Lady of Scrolls is one of my all-time favorite cards and I've been looking for a deck to run it in. It seems pretty great in Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, but I wonder if it could have a home in some Jenara builds, too. Let me know how it pans out!
My deck has a few extra Wizards than is typical and I have drawn a bunch of cards off of Azami. Her casting cost is high enough that opponents are often hellbent when she lands.
1 Jenara, Asura of War
Wizards
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Archaeomancer
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Magus of the Future
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
Other Creatures
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Gilded Drake
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Wood Elves
1 Mystic Snake
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Acidic Slime
1 Body Double
1 Ixidron
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Sun Titan
Artifacts
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Birthing Pod
1 Conjurer's Closet
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
Instants
1 Pact of Negation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Unexpectedly Absent
1 Bant Charm
1 Beast Within
1 Chord of Calling
1 Disallow
1 Dissipate
1 Intuition
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Voidslime
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fact or Fiction
Planeswalkers
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Sorceries
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Wargate
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Austere Command
1 Terminus
1 Academy Ruins
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Arid Mesa
1 Breeding Pool
1 Brushland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Grove
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Island
1 Kor Haven
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Yavimaya Coast
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
One thing I've been concerned with more recently is feeling like I run too many tutors when what I often want is straight-up card draw. I suspect Azami, Lady of Scrolls helps with that some, but do you ever run into that problem, as well? And speaking of tutors, one that I don't run is Intuition. Out of curiosity what do you typically grab?
I'm not at all sure this is the deck for Intuition, but I'm still giving it a try.
Spellseeker is one I haven't seen. I've abandoned Standard completely and I don't really keep up. I'd have to have more than one spell that was really worth the effect even if Cyclonic Rift is the best thing since sliced bread.
My sub-themes are Wizards and Flickering, as you can probably see, so I gravitate towards EtB effects. Azami is just so crazy good that I make an exception for her.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Add Pact of Negation to that list. Very strong arguments. I don't know that I am going to swap Voidslime or Disallow but Dissipate can go. I'm not likely springing for Mana Drain anyway even at the Iconic Master's price. That may sound silly looking at my deck list but my financial situation has changed drastically since I built this deck. Pull from Tomorrow isn't unreasonable as much as I like the life-gain from Sphinx's Revelation - mainly because I have so little. I've got nine targets for Spellseeker now, eleven is do-able. That's probably enough.
Card draw is super important. Magus of the Future helps with this as does Oracle of Mul Daya - together they're absurd - but certainly Azami is a house in a deck with nearly a dozen wizards.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
I too will confirm that Spellseeker is legit. Even if you run only 10 targets for her, I bet that you'll want those cards available at any point of a game.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
I'm convinced. I run Trinket Mage with only four targets, but then, one must have one's Top.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
So, in short, the Sovereign depends on VOLUME of creatures and mana advantage. Deadeye depends on QUALITY of creatures and mana advantage. I hope this makes sense.
@ZeNn
Yo, when's the Derevi Primer coming?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Anyone have experience with any of these?
I have Alchemist's Refuge but I do not remember ever using it. My deck also includes Academy Ruins and Kor Haven but that's about it for utility lands. I have Cavern of Souls if you want to call that a utility land. The list is not far above.
Wargate can tutor lands in a pinch.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Refuge seems like the only one worth keeping, but because it requires three lands just to activate I’d say the spells you’d use it with likely top out at 4cmc which isn’t that amazing. Maybe some clever Phantasmal Image shenanigans are possible but I’m not even sure about that.
One land that has actually been great for me is Minamo, School at Water's Edge. Admittedly there are only a few truly useful targets in my list, but sometimes untapping Jenara, Asura of War or Kor Haven can be the difference-maker. Despite the low number of targets, since it taps for U, it's pretty easy to slot in over an Island if you can afford the lower basic count.
Buuuuuut I suppose you can have a peek at the list I've been running.
It's nice to see renewed discussion on here.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
On the topic of utility lands:
Since Tri-Color decks are VERY color-hungry by nature, it's absolutely essential that if you ARE running nonbasics that don't add colors to your mana pool they need to be seriously amazing. Like, Volrath's Stronghold kind of amazing. And, unfortunately, I don't see many options in Bant colors that are stunning to me. Maaaaybe Ancient Tomb, but even that's a stretch. Kor Haven is probably the only one I might consider for the deck. My problem with Alchemist's Refuge is that it requires a signficant amount of mana to take advantage of, which often leaves you unable to protect your spell from a Counterspell effect. This can be a pro, since you might be able to force the Blue player to tap out during their turn and cast your REAL spell uncontested. Or it can be a con, since it does require that you commit a significant amount of mana to casting the spell.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager