With Library of Leng you can just discard to the top of the deck rather than to gy (also great for setting up miracles), so you don't even have to add Ulamog (I run Kozilek myself for other mill players in my group)
I won't say any of those things are wrong, but what you're describing is a decidedly different deck than this. Temple Bell came out of this deck specifically because it went infinite with Mind Over Matter. Wild Research came out because I didn't enjoy it whether I got what I wanted or not. Hive Mind can be interesting, but does basically nothing with the cards currently in the deck. Enchanted Evening would require me to take Opalescence out since I won't be doing that sort of thing here. And Rule of Law is a jerk thing to do.
Your suggestions aren't bad, they're just not this deck.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I changed the list a tiny bit because apparently I never changed Library of Leng over to Thought Vessel until just now. The filter lands are great and I'm glad to finally have them, but the justification I used to finally get them is not: I tried Mirrorpool, I didn't like it, I never had both the need to use it and the mana to activate it at the same time, so frankly I'd rather have a basic land.
Shared Fate has been a crazy workhorse since making its way back into this deck recently. It's won 3 games already, one of which would have been inevitable death otherwise. (New Ulamog had me down to 5 cards in my library, Shared Fate + Swans + Blasphemous Act made it so there were only Swans and Ulamog left, my opponent hadn't gotten the right lands from my 5 cards to actually play them, Swans blanked the attacking Ulamog forver, and I could never die from mill because of Shared Fate.) It's also doing one of Venser's functions but way better. Before, I'd drop Venser to exile Forced Fruition before I would draw myself out. Now I can drop Shared Fate and draw everyone else's decks too! And it makes the tail end of the Mind of the Storm combo even more nonsensical. Instead of playing my deck infinitely and exiling everyone else's, I can exile everyone else's and then play their decks infinitely! I just have to remember not to use Shared Fate too agressively, since it goes with Knowledge Pool and Possibility Storm in the category of "Geez, Tstorm! Why are you making me think this much again? Can't we just play a normal game?"
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Was playing against a friend one on one a couple hours ago. We shuffle up and start drawing our opening hands while we chat about this and that. My first 7 is Plains, Land Tax, Anvil of Bogardan, Paradox Haze, Seismic Assault, Mindmoil, and Kami of the Crescent Moon. After just enough time to process what I had, he looks up at me and asks "Can I go first?" I just started cracking up... and also let him go first.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I made 4 changes to the list. 3 of them are adding in the scry temples because my friends basically handed them to me. The 4th I've actually had in for months but was not prepared to make it official, and that's Myojin of Seeing Winds. With the clone effects already in the deck, it becomes another engine to just draw the entire library.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Greatest of All Time indeed this deck keeps performing better than I expect, but my version went further down Planeswalker road.
Although the benevolent give stuff away pose has completely worn off this deck now everywhere I play it, people are wise to my ***** immediately.
As long as the deck keeps performing better than other people expect, you can still sneak games out from under people... unfortunately, my deck has passed even that point. Most places I play, I'm watched like a hawk the whole game. I'm not public enemy number 1 so far as eating removal goes, but I am the number one reason mana is left open at all times.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
As long as the deck keeps performing better than other people expect, you can still sneak games out from under people... unfortunately, my deck has passed even that point. Most places I play, I'm watched like a hawk the whole game. I'm not public enemy number 1 so far as eating removal goes, but I am the number one reason mana is left open at all times.
Then may I suggest adding in Grand Abolisher, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Cavern of Souls and Boseiju, Who Shelters All. While I don't tend to play counterspells in my decks, my local meta has a lot of people that do. So my decks have evolved along the theme of "I do what I want on my turn" and as a result all the control players have learned to fear me. I've even thought about trying Isochron Scepter with Orim's Chant, Silence and Abeyance, but decided that would be too mean (not to mention difficult to pull off and it would make me the enemy of the table).
Then may I suggest adding in Grand Abolisher, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Cavern of Souls and Boseiju, Who Shelters All. While I don't tend to play counterspells in my decks, my local meta has a lot of people that do. So my decks have evolved along the theme of "I do what I want on my turn" and as a result all the control players have learned to fear me. I've even thought about trying Isochron Scepter with Orim's Chant, Silence and Abeyance, but decided that would be too mean (not to mention difficult to pull off and it would make me the enemy of the table).
Oh, it's not a problematic situation. It's good they react that way, it just means they give appropriate respect to the deck's power and respond accordingly, so the quantity of "you tapped out, I win" games is way down. My response when people have answers is just play more things that need to be answered until they run out.
Not to mention how not totally helpful most of those things are because of the weirdness of my deck. Boseiju effects 6 cards, and the only one really worth protecting pretty much protects itself. Cavern of Souls would get one spell through a game because the most redundant creature type I have maxes out at 3. Grand Abolisher is cool and I've used it in other decks, but it's awkward alongside my love of instant speed everything. Teferi can't go in because of Eye of the Storm, Possibility Storm, and Knowledge Pool, and that's just how it has to be. The added threat of Teferi in the deck will bring more hate towards me than utility, and any game I'd win with that lock would be a game ruined for myself. Frankly, of the things listed, I'd probably play Silence (without Isochron Sceptor) since stopping all my opponents is best and I only really need 1 good turn to win, but if I'm gonna play that way, I may as well just start using my own counterspells.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Also I have played with Teferi and he always shows up when you don't want him and never actually stops what you want him too without lots of support something these decks don't really have direct versions of
The last game I played, I managed my rarest win-condition. It wasn't a great game since nobody really stopped me at all, but it was one of the most numerically beautiful things I've ever seen.
Turn 1: Draw, land, pass. Cards drawn: 7, Cards left in hand: 6. Turn 2: Draw, land, anvil, pass. Cards drawn: 8, Cards left in hand: 5. Turn 3: Draw 2, discard 1, land, walking archive, pass. Cards drawn: 10, Cards left in hand: 4. Turn 4: Draw 3, discard 1, land, font of mythos, pass. Cards drawn: 13, Cards left in hand: 4. Turn 5: Draw 5, discard 1, land, alhammarret's archive, pass. Cards drawn: 18, Cards left in hand: 6. Turn 6: Draw 9, discard 1, stop to ponder. Mystic Gate has my mana fixed that if I drop an island, I can play Mind Over Matter, but it's not great when it only untaps 1 mana. I have Izzet Boilerworks in hand, but if I play it tapped, I can't afford Mind Over Matter. I have Myojin of Seeing Winds in hand, and could play it off of Mind Over Matter by discarding everything, but that play could have me knocked out of the game by a counterspell. I decide to play the boilerworks and leave up 4 mana for Vanish Into Memory or Firestorm. Pass. Cards drawn: 27, Cards left in hand: 14. Turn 7: Draw 9, discard 1, play the Mind Over Matter, discard 5 cards for 10 mana to play the Myojin, play a land for turn just to have another permanent, then remove the counter to draw 24. Discard 2 more cards to play Clever Impersonator on the Myojin. Play Chrome Mox without imprint, discard 1 card to play Pentad Prism, and play Memnite, all just to get down a few more permanents for free. Remove the counter and draw 30 cards. Grow inspired by the Firestorm in hand, but needing an extra turn, discard 3 cards and tap the still untapped land to play Temporal Mastery. Pass to myself. Cards drawn: 90, Cards left in hand: 57. Extra Turn: Draw 9, discard 1. Play Forbidden Orchard. I have 3 opponents and 3 creatures, and my opponents have 10 creatures collectively that I can target. I have 64 cards in hand, and one of my opponents is still at 40. Tap Forbidden Orchard to make a mana and a token. Discard 23 cards to untap Forbidden Orchard and repeat the process. There are now 3 opponents and 37 creatures at the table and 41 cards in my hand. Use a floating mana to cast Firestorm, discarding 40 to deal 40 to 40 targets. Game Over. Zedruu Wins. Cards drawn: 99, Cards left in hand: 0.
And then I spent like a day recounting all the draws and discards to make sure that really worked out that way.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I'm fairly certain it does, but.. does the deck want this card? I feel like it's a good fit, but I'm not sure if there's a point where it has TOO many Howling Mine effects.
ATTACHMENTS
Fevered-Visions_EN_HRR
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STANDARD DECKS
URB Dragons BRU
EDH W Darien, King of Kjeldor W URG Maelstrom Wanderer GRU RG Wort, the Raidmother GR RWU Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
The last game I played, I managed my rarest win-condition. It wasn't a great game since nobody really stopped me at all, but it was one of the most numerically beautiful things I've ever seen.
Turns 1-6: Deployed some lands, drew some cards. Turn 7: One of my opponents said "Zedruu the Greathearted? More like 'Zedruu the Great-FARTED'!!!" and the three of them had a chuckle at it. This got me mad so I literally chucked my deck at them. Game Over. Zedruu Wins.
I'm sure it was a little more involved than that, but that's how I read it the first time through.
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
I'm fairly certain it does, but.. does the deck want this card? I feel like it's a good fit, but I'm not sure if there's a point where it has TOO many Howling Mine effects.
Pros: It's a Howling Mine, it's on an enchantment, it trigger's on end step so we get it first, and it encourages my opponents to overextend.
Cons: It hurts my opponents.
There's not a point where there are too many Howling Mines, but there is a finite amount of space in the deck. And there are already 4 Howling Mine type things I'm not playing (Temple Bell goes too infinite, Otherworldly Atlas also does that but I never liked it in the first place, Horn of Greed is better for other players than it is for me, and Well of Ideas just costs too much mana for an effect this deck wants ASAP.)
At any rate, if I'm playing against lesser players who will tap out to play cards just to avoid the two damage, this card is a masterpiece of all upside. But if it's dealing two damage to people, it's actually a bad thing. The damage will encourage people to kill it, and then I'm drawing fewer cards than I would otherwise. Also, the damage is a bigger help to my opponents than it is to me because if I have 3 opponents all taking 2 damage, each of them is 4 damage closer to winning each turn, and that doesn't really apply to me because this deck wins with like 50% infinite combos, 30% Barren Glory, 15% milling them out, and like 5% combat damage, and even the combat damage wins are usually extreme overkill.
That being said, being fetchable with Academy Rector and copyable with Copy Enchantment are big things in this deck, getting the card first is awesome, being the only person with no maximum hand size could snap the symmetry of this card in half, and the damage is both really nearly negligible and would be a pretty cool way to win. The deck is pretty tight at the moment, so my initial thought is to maybe just cut a different Howling Mine effect for it. Kami of the Crescent Moon is by far the least versatile of the bunch if I went that route. My other thought is to back out of the Tidespout Tyrant. Before I added it in, this deck was basically Bribery-proof. Nobody ever cared to steal or clone my stuff because it was all so thoroughly dependent on synergy that no one card could pose a threat on its own. Also, a lot of its use for me has been to save me from mill when Venser wasn't around, but now Shared Fate is best at that task anyway. Maybe I'll do that. Hmmmmmm.
The last game I played, I managed my rarest win-condition. It wasn't a great game since nobody really stopped me at all, but it was one of the most numerically beautiful things I've ever seen.
Turns 1-6: Deployed some lands, drew some cards. Turn 7: One of my opponents said "Zedruu the Greathearted? More like 'Zedruu the Great-FARTED'!!!" and the three of them had a chuckle at it. This got me mad so I literally chucked my deck at them. Game Over. Zedruu Wins.
I'm sure it was a little more involved than that, but that's how I read it the first time through.
Honestly, that's probably a better story than mine. Lol.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I'm working on my Zedruu deck. At first I started with a lot of pillow fort too which just felt boring but now i'm using close to your build and editing it from there, to make it something more for my own tastes.
Trying to exclusively pilot the most current list you have posted until I don't feel so lost. Played a wild game tonight. Ended up with Alhammarret's Archive and Mindmoil in play. Felt pretty smart, but then once I had a 40-card hand, I realized that I would end up decking myself the next time I played something (I had Thought Vessel in play, so discarding wasn't an option). Unfortunately Mindmoil still triggers off casting Zedruu. Something to remember for future games.
I do have a question, specifically with some of the more chaotic cards:
If I have Possibility Storm and Eye of the Storm in play, what happens when I cast an instant? Does Eye copy both it and whatever spell I hit with Possibility Storm? Does the original card remain exiled or go on the bottom of my library? Does it matter how I stack the triggers?
Will casting a spell with Possibility Storm and Mindmoil in play trigger Mindmoil twice?
Trying to exclusively pilot the most current list you have posted until I don't feel so lost. Played a wild game tonight. Ended up with Alhammarret's Archive and Mindmoil in play. Felt pretty smart, but then once I had a 40-card hand, I realized that I would end up decking myself the next time I played something (I had Thought Vessel in play, so discarding wasn't an option). Unfortunately Mindmoil still triggers off casting Zedruu. Something to remember for future games.
I do have a question, specifically with some of the more chaotic cards:
If I have Possibility Storm and Eye of the Storm in play, what happens when I cast an instant? Does Eye copy both it and whatever spell I hit with Possibility Storm? Does the original card remain exiled or go on the bottom of my library? Does it matter how I stack the triggers?
Will casting a spell with Possibility Storm and Mindmoil in play trigger Mindmoil twice?
Enjoying the deck a lot.
For the first one, it depends on how you stack the triggers, and you don't always want to stack them the same way.
Option 1: Resolve Eye of the Storm first. You cast an instant and put the Eye trigger on top, it resolves and exiles the spell, then it recasts that spell (and anything already exiled). Once that resolves, the Possibility Storm trigger resolves and finds another instant from your library to cast. This then triggers Eye of the Storm again because you're casting an instant card, which lets you once again cast everything from Eye of the Storm, including the original spell you cast from hand and the spell from the library. This is what you want to do if you want the spell from your hand, especially if its name is Turnabout or Mind's Desire.
Option 2: Resolve Possibility Storm first. You let Possibility Storm eat the spell with the Eye trigger still on the stack. Possibility Storm then casts a spell from your library which will also trigger Eye of the Storm. Eye of the Storm eats it, and you recast the spell from the Eye. Then the first Eye trigger resolves, casting everything from under it again, which results in you getting a second cast of what Possibility Storm flipped into. This is what you want to do if the spell you cast from hand is something you don't care about, like a late game Political Trickery that could possibly flip into double Temporal Mastery.
The key to all this nonsense is that neither Possibility Storm nor Eye of the Storm have an "intervening if clause." If you look at Knowledge Pool, after telling you to exile the card, it very relevantly says "if that player does does" before letting the spell be cast out. Possibility Storm and Eye of the Storm don't have this "if," so it doesn't matter if they exile the spell themselves, the triggers are going to resolve. Where the spell goes will depend on how you stack things, but no matter what, even in the spell is countered, you will get a free spell from Possibility Storm and a copy of every card exiled by Eye of the Storm when the trigger resolves. That's why one of my favorite tricks is cloning Possibility Storm, because even after the first Possibility Storm puts the card on bottom, the other triggers keep giving you free spells of the same type.
For the second question, yes. You end up Mindmoiling twice. Once for each spell cast.
And for the situation where you have too many cards in hand but you have Mindmoil and a draw-doubler in play, it's not the most likely thing, but there is a way to break out of it. Firestorm discards the cards as a cost, so it can reduce your hand size before the Mindmoil trigger resolves. The problem is the same problem Firestorm always has: you need enough targets. And unfortunatly, the only card in Zedruu colors that can do the same trick without a targeting limitation is Devastating Dreams, which would probably win the game in the end, but not necessarily in a way you'd want to.
1x Archmage Ascension ----- Seems like a good way to grab whatever I want from my library.
Seems like you've added a bit more power overall, which should work out well. Please do let me know if you have success with Archmage Ascension. I've tried to play the card in multiple decks, including this one, and I've just never been satisfied. In this deck, I triggered it consistently, but that just made it magnet out people's removal, and if I was drawing at least 8 cards straight without anyone firing off enchantment removal, I didn't really feel like I needed the tutoring to win.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Anything to share about the interaction between Shared Fate and Possibility Storm? Possibility Storm only triggers when you cast something from your hand, but Shared Fate says cast it as if it were in your hand. I assume that casting something exiled with Shared Fate would not trigger Possibility Storm, but I just wanted to be sure.
Anything to share about the interaction between Shared Fate and Possibility Storm? Possibility Storm only triggers when you cast something from your hand, but Shared Fate says cast it as if it were in your hand. I assume that casting something exiled with Shared Fate would not trigger Possibility Storm, but I just wanted to be sure.
Seems like you've added a bit more power overall, which should work out well. Please do let me know if you have success with Archmage Ascension. I've tried to play the card in multiple decks, including this one, and I've just never been satisfied. In this deck, I triggered it consistently, but that just made it magnet out people's removal, and if I was drawing at least 8 cards straight without anyone firing off enchantment removal, I didn't really feel like I needed the tutoring to win.
I actually ended up switching to Kami instead since I was at like 90 percent blue and going for the whole card draw thing.
I only play multiplayer and the few matches i've gotten to play so far have been ended pretty quickly by someone else and I haven't even drawn into Archmage Ascension yet.
and if I was drawing at least 8 cards straight without anyone firing off enchantment removal, I didn't really feel like I needed the tutoring to win.
That seems like a pretty good point. I guess tutoring doesn't seem necessary when you have a lot of card draw so i'll likely look to replace it and the other one or two tutors I had added.
First off, cool deck! I have a friend who play Zedruu, but he hasn't got the time or money to invest in it, so sometimes I do it or him instead, and I've been looking at your list a lot. His decks isn't anything like yours though and never will be, but your list have given me some great input. The land-swappers have been an espacially welcomed addition to his deck. Last time I played with him, he Rite of Replicate 'ed a Vedalken Plotter denying almost all of my forests. I can't remember if it was the same game, but we also stumbled upon a pretty nasty interaction. Rainbow Vale have been in his deck ever since I found it in my binder a long time ago, but it never shone, and would only swap around if Zedruu were on the field. But this time it did, when he exchanged my land with Rainbow Vale. It's pretty janky, but never the less a nice interaction that feels like stealing a land. Also, not sure if you are able to tap Rainbow Vale for mana and still donate it.
...Also, not sure if you are able to tap Rainbow Vale for mana and still donate it.
You certainly can tap Rainbow Vale for the mana you need to donate it. It only "passes" to an opponent at the end of the turn during which you activate it, so unless you plan to float the mana through phases or turns with something like Upwelling, you're good to go.
Edit: Based on a discussion from another thread, I'm gonna go ahead and recommend Nahiri, the Harbinger for this deck. With so many (awesome) expensive spells looting is great at fixing up your hand. Also, the deck is a little light on answers and having one that exiles stapled to your hand-fixer is like putting sprinkles on your ice cream. In that light, the ultimate becomes the cherry on top. Given the density of four card combos in this deck and how interchangeable the parts are, you should usually be able to tutor up the last piece of the puzzle and end the game. Tidespout Tyrant? Game. Alhammarret's Archive? Game. Memnite? Um, game?
So Fevered Visions was released and it's another card that I just don't quite want. I just really don't like the 2 damage part nagging at people, so I'm not going to play it in this deck.
The only problem is when thinking of space to clear, I settled a bit on Tidespout Tyrant, and a few recent play experiences cemented that decision. 1) It got milled and reanimated and the only thing that stopped it from taking me out of the game was play error. 2) I got the game locked into place where I wanted it with Shared Fate and Tidespout Tyrant was the single card that retained enough power with Shared Fate down to either turn the game or remove Shared Fate, and then 3) a friend Bribery'd me in a 1-on-1 with an izzet deck that can storm to double digits and declined Tidespout Tyrant because he'd feel bad doing it. I'd rather go back to being a basically steal/clone/reanimate-proof deck, so out goes the tyrant.
The problem is what to replace it with. For right now, I'm giving Word of Seizing a try because I love the card and love split second and got one recently from a bulk rare box, but I'm very open to suggestions. I feel like there's a win condition out there that's even goofier than Barren Glory or harder to accomplish than Firestorm for 40, but the only thing I see that might satiate my lust for the absurd is Now I Know My ABC's
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
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Temple Bell and Otherworld Atlas- Goes infinite with MoM, Add in an Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre so you dont deck yourself.
Wild Research is always fun to play when trying to assemble win-cons.
Opalescence Combo - Parallax Wave, Enchanted Evening, Vicious Shadows, Purphoros, God of the Forge
Enduring Ideal with Hive Mind
Lastly, Since you already play Possibility Storm - This is a bit of a jerk thing and the table will most likely scoop, but its still awesome: Rule of Law or Arcane Laboratory + Venser, the Sojourner + Enduring Ideal
Your suggestions aren't bad, they're just not this deck.
Shared Fate has been a crazy workhorse since making its way back into this deck recently. It's won 3 games already, one of which would have been inevitable death otherwise. (New Ulamog had me down to 5 cards in my library, Shared Fate + Swans + Blasphemous Act made it so there were only Swans and Ulamog left, my opponent hadn't gotten the right lands from my 5 cards to actually play them, Swans blanked the attacking Ulamog forver, and I could never die from mill because of Shared Fate.) It's also doing one of Venser's functions but way better. Before, I'd drop Venser to exile Forced Fruition before I would draw myself out. Now I can drop Shared Fate and draw everyone else's decks too! And it makes the tail end of the Mind of the Storm combo even more nonsensical. Instead of playing my deck infinitely and exiling everyone else's, I can exile everyone else's and then play their decks infinitely! I just have to remember not to use Shared Fate too agressively, since it goes with Knowledge Pool and Possibility Storm in the category of "Geez, Tstorm! Why are you making me think this much again? Can't we just play a normal game?"
1x Zedruu the Greathearted
Land (36)
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Buried Ruin
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
8x Island
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4x Mountain
1x Mystic Gate
6x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Skycloud Expanse
1x Steam Vents
1x Strip Mine
1x Temple of the False God
1x Tolaria West
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
Planeswalker (9)
1x Ajani Steadfast
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Copy Enchantment
1x Dictate of Kruphix
1x Eye of the Storm
1x Forced Fruition
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Land Tax
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Mind Over Matter
1x Mindmoil
1x Oath of Lieges
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Paradox Haze
1x Propaganda
1x Rhystic Study
1x Treachery
Artifact (10)
1x Alhammarret's Archive
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Teferi's Puzzle Box
1x The Chain Veil
Sorcery (8)
1x All Is Dust
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Mind's Desire
1x Recurring Insight
1x Replenish
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Walk the Aeons
1x Academy Rector
1x Archaeomancer
1x Clever Impersonator
1x Dualcaster Mage
1x Humble Defector
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sun Titan
1x Vedalken Plotter
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
Instant (8)
1x Brainstorm
1x Cryptic Command
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Ghostly Flicker
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Reiterate
1x Turnabout
Delicate balance seems to be how much chaos vs. other stuff is included.
Although the benevolent give stuff away pose has completely worn off this deck now everywhere I play it, people are wise to my ***** immediately.
As long as the deck keeps performing better than other people expect, you can still sneak games out from under people... unfortunately, my deck has passed even that point. Most places I play, I'm watched like a hawk the whole game. I'm not public enemy number 1 so far as eating removal goes, but I am the number one reason mana is left open at all times.
Then may I suggest adding in Grand Abolisher, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Cavern of Souls and Boseiju, Who Shelters All. While I don't tend to play counterspells in my decks, my local meta has a lot of people that do. So my decks have evolved along the theme of "I do what I want on my turn" and as a result all the control players have learned to fear me. I've even thought about trying Isochron Scepter with Orim's Chant, Silence and Abeyance, but decided that would be too mean (not to mention difficult to pull off and it would make me the enemy of the table).
Oh, it's not a problematic situation. It's good they react that way, it just means they give appropriate respect to the deck's power and respond accordingly, so the quantity of "you tapped out, I win" games is way down. My response when people have answers is just play more things that need to be answered until they run out.
Not to mention how not totally helpful most of those things are because of the weirdness of my deck. Boseiju effects 6 cards, and the only one really worth protecting pretty much protects itself. Cavern of Souls would get one spell through a game because the most redundant creature type I have maxes out at 3. Grand Abolisher is cool and I've used it in other decks, but it's awkward alongside my love of instant speed everything. Teferi can't go in because of Eye of the Storm, Possibility Storm, and Knowledge Pool, and that's just how it has to be. The added threat of Teferi in the deck will bring more hate towards me than utility, and any game I'd win with that lock would be a game ruined for myself. Frankly, of the things listed, I'd probably play Silence (without Isochron Sceptor) since stopping all my opponents is best and I only really need 1 good turn to win, but if I'm gonna play that way, I may as well just start using my own counterspells.
Same with the other stuff really.
Draw first seven, toss them. Draw second 7, toss them. Draw 6 and get 3 lands, Anvil of Bogardan, Walking Archive, and Mind Over Matter. Keep it.
Turn 1: Draw, land, pass. Cards drawn: 7, Cards left in hand: 6.
Turn 2: Draw, land, anvil, pass. Cards drawn: 8, Cards left in hand: 5.
Turn 3: Draw 2, discard 1, land, walking archive, pass. Cards drawn: 10, Cards left in hand: 4.
Turn 4: Draw 3, discard 1, land, font of mythos, pass. Cards drawn: 13, Cards left in hand: 4.
Turn 5: Draw 5, discard 1, land, alhammarret's archive, pass. Cards drawn: 18, Cards left in hand: 6.
Turn 6: Draw 9, discard 1, stop to ponder. Mystic Gate has my mana fixed that if I drop an island, I can play Mind Over Matter, but it's not great when it only untaps 1 mana. I have Izzet Boilerworks in hand, but if I play it tapped, I can't afford Mind Over Matter. I have Myojin of Seeing Winds in hand, and could play it off of Mind Over Matter by discarding everything, but that play could have me knocked out of the game by a counterspell. I decide to play the boilerworks and leave up 4 mana for Vanish Into Memory or Firestorm. Pass. Cards drawn: 27, Cards left in hand: 14.
Turn 7: Draw 9, discard 1, play the Mind Over Matter, discard 5 cards for 10 mana to play the Myojin, play a land for turn just to have another permanent, then remove the counter to draw 24. Discard 2 more cards to play Clever Impersonator on the Myojin. Play Chrome Mox without imprint, discard 1 card to play Pentad Prism, and play Memnite, all just to get down a few more permanents for free. Remove the counter and draw 30 cards. Grow inspired by the Firestorm in hand, but needing an extra turn, discard 3 cards and tap the still untapped land to play Temporal Mastery. Pass to myself. Cards drawn: 90, Cards left in hand: 57.
Extra Turn: Draw 9, discard 1. Play Forbidden Orchard. I have 3 opponents and 3 creatures, and my opponents have 10 creatures collectively that I can target. I have 64 cards in hand, and one of my opponents is still at 40. Tap Forbidden Orchard to make a mana and a token. Discard 23 cards to untap Forbidden Orchard and repeat the process. There are now 3 opponents and 37 creatures at the table and 41 cards in my hand. Use a floating mana to cast Firestorm, discarding 40 to deal 40 to 40 targets. Game Over. Zedruu Wins. Cards drawn: 99, Cards left in hand: 0.
And then I spent like a day recounting all the draws and discards to make sure that really worked out that way.
I'm fairly certain it does, but.. does the deck want this card? I feel like it's a good fit, but I'm not sure if there's a point where it has TOO many Howling Mine effects.
URB Dragons BRU
EDH
W Darien, King of Kjeldor W
URG Maelstrom Wanderer GRU
RG Wort, the Raidmother GR
RWU Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
I'm sure it was a little more involved than that, but that's how I read it the first time through.
Pros: It's a Howling Mine, it's on an enchantment, it trigger's on end step so we get it first, and it encourages my opponents to overextend.
Cons: It hurts my opponents.
There's not a point where there are too many Howling Mines, but there is a finite amount of space in the deck. And there are already 4 Howling Mine type things I'm not playing (Temple Bell goes too infinite, Otherworldly Atlas also does that but I never liked it in the first place, Horn of Greed is better for other players than it is for me, and Well of Ideas just costs too much mana for an effect this deck wants ASAP.)
At any rate, if I'm playing against lesser players who will tap out to play cards just to avoid the two damage, this card is a masterpiece of all upside. But if it's dealing two damage to people, it's actually a bad thing. The damage will encourage people to kill it, and then I'm drawing fewer cards than I would otherwise. Also, the damage is a bigger help to my opponents than it is to me because if I have 3 opponents all taking 2 damage, each of them is 4 damage closer to winning each turn, and that doesn't really apply to me because this deck wins with like 50% infinite combos, 30% Barren Glory, 15% milling them out, and like 5% combat damage, and even the combat damage wins are usually extreme overkill.
That being said, being fetchable with Academy Rector and copyable with Copy Enchantment are big things in this deck, getting the card first is awesome, being the only person with no maximum hand size could snap the symmetry of this card in half, and the damage is both really nearly negligible and would be a pretty cool way to win. The deck is pretty tight at the moment, so my initial thought is to maybe just cut a different Howling Mine effect for it. Kami of the Crescent Moon is by far the least versatile of the bunch if I went that route. My other thought is to back out of the Tidespout Tyrant. Before I added it in, this deck was basically Bribery-proof. Nobody ever cared to steal or clone my stuff because it was all so thoroughly dependent on synergy that no one card could pose a threat on its own. Also, a lot of its use for me has been to save me from mill when Venser wasn't around, but now Shared Fate is best at that task anyway. Maybe I'll do that. Hmmmmmm.
Honestly, that's probably a better story than mine. Lol.
Here's where i'm at currently:
1x Academy Rector
1x Clever Impersonator
1x Consecrated Sphinx ----- More card draw.
1x Kami of the Crescent Moon
1x Memnite
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Psychosis Crawler ----- To add damage from my card draw.
1x Sakashima the Impostor
1x Shimmer Myr
1x Swans of Bryn Argoll
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre ----- Only for the graveyard effect.
1x Vedalken Plotter
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Political Trickery
1x Temporal Cascade
1x Time Reversal
1x Time Spiral
1x Jace Beleren
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Alhammarret's Archive
1x Anvil of Bogardan
1x Boros Signet
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Chrome Mox
1x Expedition Map
1x Font of Mythos
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Howling Mine
1x Izzet Signet
1x Knowledge Pool
1x Library of Leng
1x Sol Ring
1x Swiftfoot Boots ----- To put on Swans.
1x Temple Bell ----- To combo with Mind over matter.
1x Thought Vessel
1x Vedalken Orrery
1x Venser's Journal ----- For life gain.
1x Witchbane Orb ----- For some defense.
1x Archmage Ascension ----- Seems like a good way to grab whatever I want from my library.
1x Copy Enchantment
1x Dictate of Kruphix
1x Dissipation Field
1x Dream Halls
1x Forced Fruition
1x Jeskai Ascendancy
1x Land Tax
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Leyline of Singularity ----- In case someone wants to spawn lots of tokens.
1x Meishin, the Mind Cage ----- More Defense.
1x Mind over Matter
1x Mindmoil
1x Oath of Lieges
1x Omniscience
1x Paradox Haze
1x Pariah ----- To put on Swans.
1x Possibility Storm
1x Seismic Assault
1x Sphinx's Tutelage ----- To add mill from my card draw.
1x Statecraft ----- To gift to someone with a threatening creature heavy deck.
1x Thought Reflection
1x Warstorm Surge
1x Well of Ideas ----- More card draw.
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Command Tower
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Glacial Fortress
8x Island
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Mistveil Plains
7x Mountain
1x Mystic Monastery
7x Plains
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Serra's Sanctum
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Tolaria West
1x Tundra
1x Volcanic Island
UKami of the Crescent MoonU
RKrenko, Mob BossR
I do have a question, specifically with some of the more chaotic cards:
Enjoying the deck a lot.
For the first one, it depends on how you stack the triggers, and you don't always want to stack them the same way.
Option 1: Resolve Eye of the Storm first. You cast an instant and put the Eye trigger on top, it resolves and exiles the spell, then it recasts that spell (and anything already exiled). Once that resolves, the Possibility Storm trigger resolves and finds another instant from your library to cast. This then triggers Eye of the Storm again because you're casting an instant card, which lets you once again cast everything from Eye of the Storm, including the original spell you cast from hand and the spell from the library. This is what you want to do if you want the spell from your hand, especially if its name is Turnabout or Mind's Desire.
Option 2: Resolve Possibility Storm first. You let Possibility Storm eat the spell with the Eye trigger still on the stack. Possibility Storm then casts a spell from your library which will also trigger Eye of the Storm. Eye of the Storm eats it, and you recast the spell from the Eye. Then the first Eye trigger resolves, casting everything from under it again, which results in you getting a second cast of what Possibility Storm flipped into. This is what you want to do if the spell you cast from hand is something you don't care about, like a late game Political Trickery that could possibly flip into double Temporal Mastery.
The key to all this nonsense is that neither Possibility Storm nor Eye of the Storm have an "intervening if clause." If you look at Knowledge Pool, after telling you to exile the card, it very relevantly says "if that player does does" before letting the spell be cast out. Possibility Storm and Eye of the Storm don't have this "if," so it doesn't matter if they exile the spell themselves, the triggers are going to resolve. Where the spell goes will depend on how you stack things, but no matter what, even in the spell is countered, you will get a free spell from Possibility Storm and a copy of every card exiled by Eye of the Storm when the trigger resolves. That's why one of my favorite tricks is cloning Possibility Storm, because even after the first Possibility Storm puts the card on bottom, the other triggers keep giving you free spells of the same type.
For the second question, yes. You end up Mindmoiling twice. Once for each spell cast.
And for the situation where you have too many cards in hand but you have Mindmoil and a draw-doubler in play, it's not the most likely thing, but there is a way to break out of it. Firestorm discards the cards as a cost, so it can reduce your hand size before the Mindmoil trigger resolves. The problem is the same problem Firestorm always has: you need enough targets. And unfortunatly, the only card in Zedruu colors that can do the same trick without a targeting limitation is Devastating Dreams, which would probably win the game in the end, but not necessarily in a way you'd want to.
Seems like you've added a bit more power overall, which should work out well. Please do let me know if you have success with Archmage Ascension. I've tried to play the card in multiple decks, including this one, and I've just never been satisfied. In this deck, I triggered it consistently, but that just made it magnet out people's removal, and if I was drawing at least 8 cards straight without anyone firing off enchantment removal, I didn't really feel like I needed the tutoring to win.
Correct. Cards cast with Shared Fate don't trigger Possibility Storm or Knowledge Pool. It's a bit of a nonbo, but that happens with so many intersecting pieces. Rest In Peace and Academy Rector is a far worse interaction.
I actually ended up switching to Kami instead since I was at like 90 percent blue and going for the whole card draw thing.
I only play multiplayer and the few matches i've gotten to play so far have been ended pretty quickly by someone else and I haven't even drawn into Archmage Ascension yet.
That seems like a pretty good point. I guess tutoring doesn't seem necessary when you have a lot of card draw so i'll likely look to replace it and the other one or two tutors I had added.
UKami of the Crescent MoonU
RKrenko, Mob BossR
You certainly can tap Rainbow Vale for the mana you need to donate it. It only "passes" to an opponent at the end of the turn during which you activate it, so unless you plan to float the mana through phases or turns with something like Upwelling, you're good to go.
Edit: Based on a discussion from another thread, I'm gonna go ahead and recommend Nahiri, the Harbinger for this deck. With so many (awesome) expensive spells looting is great at fixing up your hand. Also, the deck is a little light on answers and having one that exiles stapled to your hand-fixer is like putting sprinkles on your ice cream. In that light, the ultimate becomes the cherry on top. Given the density of four card combos in this deck and how interchangeable the parts are, you should usually be able to tutor up the last piece of the puzzle and end the game. Tidespout Tyrant? Game. Alhammarret's Archive? Game. Memnite? Um, game?
The only problem is when thinking of space to clear, I settled a bit on Tidespout Tyrant, and a few recent play experiences cemented that decision. 1) It got milled and reanimated and the only thing that stopped it from taking me out of the game was play error. 2) I got the game locked into place where I wanted it with Shared Fate and Tidespout Tyrant was the single card that retained enough power with Shared Fate down to either turn the game or remove Shared Fate, and then 3) a friend Bribery'd me in a 1-on-1 with an izzet deck that can storm to double digits and declined Tidespout Tyrant because he'd feel bad doing it. I'd rather go back to being a basically steal/clone/reanimate-proof deck, so out goes the tyrant.
The problem is what to replace it with. For right now, I'm giving Word of Seizing a try because I love the card and love split second and got one recently from a bulk rare box, but I'm very open to suggestions. I feel like there's a win condition out there that's even goofier than Barren Glory or harder to accomplish than Firestorm for 40, but the only thing I see that might satiate my lust for the absurd is Now I Know My ABC's
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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