I love this deck. I recently built my own version of it (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/master-pai-meis-one-inch-punch/?cb=1543334443) if you're interested in peeping my list. I'm so excited to start taking it out for a spin. There was an old Extended list by LSV that won with Brain Freeze / Mind's Desire and I've always wanted to port it over to EDH, and your deck was the perfect shell.
I like your Arcbond combo, and I have a Boros deck that also wins with Arcbond. I thought I'd share my tech. There are two unique cards with a Pariah effect: Palisade Giant and Saving Grace. Both of these cards are different from Pariah, since they also absorb damage to permanents along with your life total. If you make a Palisade Giant or Saving Grace'd creature indestructible, you can cast Arcbond on it and then the next point of damage you take will be reflected out to all creatures. Pariah effect absorbs it back, then reflects it again, and again, and again. It forms a recursive loop that would draw the game, except your opponents take infinite damage so the loop ends when they die.
Since Saving Grace has flash, it's very easy/possible to flash this combo in response to damage to win on the spot. Thought you'd like the idea to see if it fits in your setup. Cheers.
Hey man, first i gotta gratz you for the awesome deck, i got excited just by reading the idea. Now, i gotta make a sad question (for me): Do you think the overall theme of the deck could be achieved by cuting the most expensive cards? In other words, do you think a budget version of this deck would work? Im seriously thinking on buying it, mainly bc i love Zedruu, but unfortunately it is out of my price range. I was thinking on cuting some of the duo lands and most of the cards that cost more than $40 dollars (i live in brazil, mtg is really expensive here). Anyways, thanks for reading and cheers for the cool deck!
Hey man, first i gotta gratz you for the awesome deck, i got excited just by reading the idea. Now, i gotta make a sad question (for me): Do you think the overall theme of the deck could be achieved by cuting the most expensive cards? In other words, do you think a budget version of this deck would work? Im seriously thinking on buying it, mainly bc i love Zedruu, but unfortunately it is out of my price range. I was thinking on cuting some of the duo lands and most of the cards that cost more than $40 dollars (i live in brazil, mtg is really expensive here). Anyways, thanks for reading and cheers for the cool deck!
Definitely possible to lower it. For example Game Plan and Time Reversal are good budget substitutes for Time Spiral (the difference being that you don't get to untap lands). Other ones are nice-to-have for certain shenanigans due to their unique effects (Sakashima for example) but not really required. And some of the expensive lands (e.g. Celestial Colonnade) are for shenanigans, too.
I love this deck. I recently built my own version of it (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/master-pai-meis-one-inch-punch/?cb=1543334443) if you're interested in peeping my list. I'm so excited to start taking it out for a spin. There was an old Extended list by LSV that won with Brain Freeze / Mind's Desire and I've always wanted to port it over to EDH, and your deck was the perfect shell.
I like your Arcbond combo, and I have a Boros deck that also wins with Arcbond. I thought I'd share my tech. There are two unique cards with a Pariah effect: Palisade Giant and Saving Grace. Both of these cards are different from Pariah, since they also absorb damage to permanents along with your life total. If you make a Palisade Giant or Saving Grace'd creature indestructible, you can cast Arcbond on it and then the next point of damage you take will be reflected out to all creatures. Pariah effect absorbs it back, then reflects it again, and again, and again. It forms a recursive loop that would draw the game, except your opponents take infinite damage so the loop ends when they die.
Since Saving Grace has flash, it's very easy/possible to flash this combo in response to damage to win on the spot. Thought you'd like the idea to see if it fits in your setup. Cheers.
Thanks for the inspiration!
I'm sorry I missed this for like 2 months somehow.
I like the Saving Grace tech, but I might have to technically classify it as too efficient. 3 cards and the condition that one of my creatures gets damaged is probably restrictive enough, but all 3 of those cards being instant speed combat tricks might be a little much. Going from Zedruu and 6 untapped lands to "gg, next game" off of someone attacking me feels pretty aggressive for my tastes.
I see Thousand-Year Storm and Experimental Frenzy in your list. Those izzet cards have certainly caught my eye, storm and "you may look at the top card of your library" being some of my favorite text to see in magic.
Hey man, first i gotta gratz you for the awesome deck, i got excited just by reading the idea. Now, i gotta make a sad question (for me): Do you think the overall theme of the deck could be achieved by cuting the most expensive cards? In other words, do you think a budget version of this deck would work? Im seriously thinking on buying it, mainly bc i love Zedruu, but unfortunately it is out of my price range. I was thinking on cuting some of the duo lands and most of the cards that cost more than $40 dollars (i live in brazil, mtg is really expensive here). Anyways, thanks for reading and cheers for the cool deck!
Absolutely. And if you're playing with a bunch of basics and don't mind shuffling, Oath of Lieges is a sweet card here. I took a quick look at what's been in this deck since I made the thread here, and while some things like Vedalken Orrery or Rest in Peace are cards I think of as expensive, the only really big price tag that's been in the whole time is Time Spiral, and wouldn't you know it, they're about to print Emergency Powers which will almost certainly be a relatively attainable card shortly after set release. Almost no single card here is critically important, as long as you draw everyone into interesting things with Howling Mines, ramp to your interesting stuff with some mana rocks, and then play stupid permanents that throw off everyone else's plans, you should have a fun time. If you need inspiration for things to replace the cards you don't want to pay for, check the change log. There's a bunch of bulk cardboard in there that I've enjoyed profusely.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Given this list, my first question would be: Is there any of these cards that you would consider crucial for the deck? If not, is there any of these cards that you would highly recommend me to invest a few more bucks in?
Now the second part of the post i'll throw some stuff that i was thinking on replacing these mentioned cards with:
Now i ask: Is there any important card i am missing to replace the ones from your original deck? Any other recommendations? Should i invest some in lands perhaps?
I appreciate your time for reading this, hope the formatting isnt't to wonky. Cheers!
As far as things from that list that are worth the investment, I'd say Firestorm. Firestorm, Time Spiral, and Opalescence are the reserve list cards mentioned above, the latter two are relatively expensive at the moment, but Firestorm is pretty close to the roughly $10 price tag its had for years. It's safe money that way, and it's a very unique effect. Outside of really specific interactions, everything listed has reasonable budget alternatives except that one. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of mine.
About your replacements, if you've never played with Timesifter, you're obligated to try it. I realize this somewhat contradicts mentioning the option to cut Mirror of Fate, but not all decisions need to be made at once. Timesifter is a lot like Shared Fate. You just have to throw your expectations out the window and enjoy the ride. And then after playing it a couple times, you'll probably cut it cause it's hot nonsense, but it's really worth getting to see once or twice.
Nezahal, Primal Tide is actually kind of awesome, thinking about it. Just thinking about that and Possibility Storm in play at the same time is kind of excellent. I certainly never considered a big stupid dinosaur for Zedruu, but in case you can't tell, I'm not exactly a big stupid dinosaur kind of player. It can even enable Barren Glory if you can Leave all your other permanents and have a multiple of 3 cards in hand on the previous end step. That's kind of awesome. I wanna flicker it every turn with Warstorm Surge and Swans of Bryn Argoll in play. Lol.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Is there any other card that gives an extra turn and could replace Temporal Mastery? If there is an alternative, i might get Rest in Peace to keep the possibility of a combo.
I think i ill get Firestorm anyways, was just trying to see if Nahiri's Wrath could do the trick.
If I were you, I'd decide based on what the closest replacements are. Temporal Mastery has cards like the one's above, Sakashima is just a very niche Clone, Archive is Thought Reflection, Orerry is Leyline of Anticipation, Rest in Peace is Tormod's Crypt. The least replaceable is probably Opalescence, Starfield of Nyx is the only real alternative for that effect, and that's been sneaking up in price as well. But then you don't really need an Opalescence effect, it's just a card that makes interesting things happen. I don't know, you do you.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
After building a very powerful and competitive Brago deck, and purposefully tuned down Gitrog monster deck, i decided to put together a deck that is not as powerful as those. This is the deck I chose. I've yet to play with it, but I am planning on taking it to my EDH group on saturday.
This is the single greatest deck I have ever played! So happy I bought it, I haven't picked up any deck since, so thank you!
Anyway, quick question have you seen the new rules about token generation, It now seems the person who creates the token is the owner, not who puts it into the battlefield. Makes forbidden orchard even better but also adds another value to other cards that puts tokens in under opponents control. I.e hunted cards.
Sorry another question, what happens when you un-exile something under eye of the storm or knowledge pool.
Using mirror of fate for example.
I assume it's not there anymore and therefore cannot be used.
This is the single greatest deck I have ever played! So happy I bought it, I haven't picked up any deck since, so thank you!
Anyway, quick question have you seen the new rules about token generation, It now seems the person who creates the token is the owner, not who puts it into the battlefield. Makes forbidden orchard even better but also adds another value to other cards that puts tokens in under opponents control. I.e hunted cards.
What are your thoughts?
Prepare to be disappointed! They changed the rules so that the person who creates it owns it... AND they errata'd the text of these cards to say "target opponent creates tokens". The only thing that rules change actually effected are the very few cards that make creatures enter the battlefield under someone else's control as a replacement effect (like Crafty Cutpurse), as those replacement effects are the only way you can currently have one player create creatures that enter under someone else's control.
Sorry another question, what happens when you un-exile something under eye of the storm or knowledge pool.
Using mirror of fate for example.
I assume it's not there anymore and therefore cannot be used.
Correct. Which for an easy example of this, Knowledge Pool has its cards un-exiled constantly. Once someone casts them out of the pool, they aren't there for the ability to see anymore. Which is also the only way to sneak an option away from someone. When either an Eye or Pool trigger resolves, the cards it sees are all and only the cards currently in exile from the abilities written on the permanent that generated the trigger. In doesn't matter if Knowledge Pool or Eye of the Storm are even still in play, all that matters is the trigger is resolving, the cards were exiled by the same permanent's normal abilities, and the cards have not left exile.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Smothering Tithe is clearly too good not to run in this deck. The number of cards it has synergy with is kind of nuts. Unfortunately March of the Machines is some real anti-synergy. The obvious thing to sub in is Mechanized Production, but the synergy there is TOO strong. I'm trying to think of a package I can add that doesn't shut off Tithe, but doesn't kill everyone the turn after I drop Tithe. Any thoughts?
You are right I am disapointed! Ah well. Thank you for clearing up the exile rulings, I am having to quickly learn alot of the rulings in mtg that I would never normally need. This deck is even making me a better magic player.
Smothering Tithe is clearly too good not to run in this deck. The number of cards it has synergy with is kind of nuts. Unfortunately March of the Machines is some real anti-synergy. The obvious thing to sub in is Mechanized Production, but the synergy there is TOO strong. I'm trying to think of a package I can add that doesn't shut off Tithe, but doesn't kill everyone the turn after I drop Tithe. Any thoughts?
Today, I managed a very early knoweldge pool, followed up by an opalessence and a warstorm surge. I enchanted the surge with infinite reflections, began just knowledge pooling out my opponents relentless rats which now were my warstorm surges.
Had an interesting game last night. That happens a lot with this deck and I really like how it encourages me to go, "I don't know how this will go, let's find out".
Pitted against The Ur-Dragon and Inalla mill, there were some wacky interactions and some very sub-optimal plays on my part (I'll blame that on not playing in 3 months). Poor start with no early draw acceleration, I didn't get any extra draw until I had Zedruu out and donated a land, but that got things going. Inalla had a turn 1 Altar of the Brood and their turn 2 milled my Time Spiral. At some point I Detained Ur-Dragon's Balefire, but before I could donate control Inalla wiped the board due to a couple other dragons. Still no card draw outside of Zedruu and very low on cards, the turn I felt casting her again was the best play saw me losing 5 life and milled 7 cards to Inalla's Memory Erosion, Painful Quandary, and Mindcrank as I needed to keep Leave. With my March of the Machines already in play, I use Leave to give Balefire back which cost me another 5 life and milled 7. Ur-Dragon used that to attack Inalla and take out the artifacts like Mindcrank. Next turn I drew Opalescence and gave a reason to do that again. After that Balefire went into Detention again.
After more swings in advantage between us while controlling each other - in which Ur-Dragon by sheer dumb luck kept getting dragons milled and mainly drawing lands - I managed to squeak out a win off of Ur-Dragon's Warstorm Surge. I still had Opalescence in play and then Mirrorweaved a mix of 7 of my creatures and enchantments (stuff like Leyline, Plotter, Nin, and Kami played the turn before) into Warstorms. Immediately followed that with Dissipation Field and Dack's Duplicate copying Warstorm with one damage trigger hitting myself to bounce that and do that again with my last 4 mana. I had exactly 4 cards left in my library, though I had Temporal Cascade in hand.
That is awesome. I'm going to take it for a spin sometime soon too - it's been a while since I used Zedruu.
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A hobby is by defenition something you're not any good at - otherwise it'd have been your work. Magic is my biggest hobby so I mustn't be very good at it.
I had another cool win. My opponent was playing Gishath and he ramped very quickly into his commander and had a very large board state. I did a pretty good job ramping as well with signets, Gilded Lotus, and crystaline walker. On my turn, i had enough mana to play Eye of the storm, and on his begging combat step, i played turn about, tapping his team and putting it under eye. He then played a few more dinos, then, rampant growth, and a few more dinos.
Next opponent played Mystical tutor, Kindred Dominance, and a bunch of pirates. Next opponent tapped out for a Consecrated sphinx. Somehow, I survived, so I cast Firestorm on opponent's end step, mystical tutored for mind's Desire. Destroyed all the creatures, and went to my turn. Cast the mind's desire, (Storm Count 1) exiled it, cast the rampant growth, mystical tutor, wrath and turnabout, firestorm, and Mind's Desire (Storm 7.) 8 copies of mind's desire later, i cast ephermeral Shields, and cast growth, tutor,wrath,firestorm,turnabout, shields, mind's desire ( Storm 16) March of the machines, Jeskai Ascendancy, jeskai charm, (then all the spells netting an absurd mana with 2 signets and walker) (storm 27) Then, Zedruu, Barren Glory, and temporal mastery. Casting all my spells again, netting enough mana to donate all my permanents to my opponents, discarding my hand with firestorm (killing zedruu) and passing the turn to myself, winning on my upkeep.
My favorite part about that is that you had basically every win condition in the deck available to you by the 50th copy of Mind's Desire, and you picked Barren Glory. I warms my barren, barren heart.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Played a long long long grindy game against zombie tribal, wall tribal, Angel tribal, and soldier tribal.
Game became stalled when the Wall Player played Meishin, the Mind Cage, and the zombie player played call to the grave. This led to 10 or 15 turns of no one doing anything, that is, until I cast Venser planeswalker, and ultimated him and someone cast a wrath... I then cast eye of the storm, cast a few spells exiled the Mind Cage, but stalled out.
Thats when the zombie player played throne of the god pharaoh, then cast Army of the damned, damnation (didn't cast) and decree of pain(didn't cast), and dark ritual, and tried to pass to his end step...
I then cast Fire Storm as my last card and stacked the cards to draw 52 cards with decree of pain then cast my own army. Then, i cast ephimeral shields, making another 13 zombies, then i cast mirrorweave, making another 13 zombies, and then i cast jeskai charm making another 13. for 52 zombies of my own, and then, arcbond to cast firestorm from my hand to kill the table.
Ok, that was a different game. Finally found a magic player at work and we did 1v1 this evening. He forgot his deck so ended up playing my SidisiSpiders deck, and I chose Zedruu. Not every card played is mentioned; mainly the highlights.
He was developing board pretty well with Somberwald Sage, Oracle of Mul Daya, and extra draw off the Howling Mine I gave him. He ended up heading for a line of play of Progenitor Mimic copying Deranged Hermit with a Doubling Season in play and Muldrotha and Sidisi backing things up, but Razia was able to take the Mimic out the first time he set that up (that is a pretty flexible ability). I wasn't doing too bad with two permanents swapped (Howling Mine and a land) and Alhammarret's Archive backing up Zedruu.
After I took out the Mimic he held back the remaining squirrels (14) and I was trying to figure out whether I could pare down his board with anything I had in hand, initially looking to Mirrorweave and Infinite Reflection. Instead I decided to take insanity's hand and go for a walk: Bonus Round into a hardcast Temporal Mastery for two extra turns. First of them I got Dissipation Field down and then Knowledge Pool. Second one, an Echo Storm got me another Pool and another swap, Memnite got me Echo Storm again (and two more Pools), and I think I held back mana for some of the instants in my hand after that. Yep, four Knowledge Pools.
He definitely could have been more aggressive in attacks over these turns, but decided to go after the DerangedMimic line again for the +1/+1s, first with the Hermit off of Muldrotha to bypass the Pools. I cast Arcbond to get Teferi and set up for what was coming. Probably should have set up further, but I did something else that turn that I can't remember - ended up not mattering, but I had 6 mana left untapped.
He paid the Hermit's echo cost and cast the Mimic from the graveyard. His squirrels were 3/3 and he had 22 of them without summoning sickness with 8 new ones. He decided to attack with just those 22 squirrels for lethal:
I cast Mirrorweave, getting Arcbond which targeted one of his attacking squirrels.
I cast Leave with my last 2 mana, getting Memnite.
Blocked the Arcbonded squirrel with the Memnite, wiping the board.
I ended up winning soon after with March of the Machines to make 3 of my artifacts creatures, Inferno Titan, and Infinite Reflection on the Titan (the first being under a Pool and the other two having to come from my hand, through a Pool). I should've chosen a creature other than Memnite in the sequence above, such as the Solemn Simulacrum — then I could have used it to chain zero-cost Titans with the Dissipation Field, even without donating it (2 damage to him, 1 to me).
One regret is that I forgot to attack with Razia on my series of three turns in a row. I'd already hit him a couple times with her because he didn't want to chump-block with his Trygon Predator, and I should've kept pushing that.
To be fair, I'm averaging like 1 game of magic a week and keep making/changing other decks, so my Zedruu reps are lacking, but there's some immensely unlikely probability working against me. I just can't manage to draw and cast Knowledge Pool and Echo Storm together like that. Two cards together that in theory give me 4 Knowledge Pools is like my perfect dream, but reality's got some kind of shuffle bug that won't let me do it (without drawing my whole library first).
Unrelated note, I'm considering finally giving Dakra Mystic a shot. I found myself in the interesting position of copying an opponent's Prime Speaker Vannifar (with haste), but I couldn't pod my Memnite into anything. I've already got a couple 7s I'm debating between if I want to fill out the whole pod chain for just that occasion (I expect to play against Vannifar in the future), so that would just leave the 1 slot empty.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Yeah, but there could also be other 1 CMC stuff to copy (or animate and copy). Unfortunately means a lot more than one card to buy-in to hijacking their mechanic somewhat.
I do sometimes feel a little creature-light since I took Metamorph out for Echo Storm. But I also still feel like I'm only scratching the surface of what the deck can do.
So, I'm testing a few of the newer released cards in here, as I like to do. Smothering Tithe on a normal time around the table feels fine, it's only really felt good with the wheeleffects, but I'm not taking it out until at least I get to donate Mindmoil with it in play.
Thousand-Year Storm is definitely something I underestimated at first glance. I recognized the power, but was afraid the requirement of doing it all in one turn and only counting instants and sorceries would hold it back, but it turns out I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 instants or sorceries that can generate mana or free additional spells even before these A, B, C, D (maybe E) get involved. Honestly, it's basically just like Eye of the Storm: you go off the turn you go for it or you sputter out and probably die horribly. It's gonna be swapping back and forth with Bonus Round for a bit while I decide which stays. I like that this upgrades Venser, Shaper Savant from the 5 card infinite solidly into the 4 card infinite club, as with enough mana or enough "TYStorm" count and Cowardice, you can cast Catch target Venser, bounce Venser, recast Venser bouncing Catch, and then use all the Catch copies to generate mana. (For anyone trying to count, if all you have are lands that produce one mana, it takes 35 mana to go infinte this way, but it goes way way down if you have things tapping for more than 1 mana or have already cast spells that turn.)
Speaking of 35 mana, the card I've been having a blast with: Azor's Gateway. Did you know I have 3 ways to untap this as an artifact? Unbender Tine, Turnabout, Catch // Release (edit: really 4, Temporal Mastery). Two of those multiply with Thousand-Year Storm/Bonus Round and Eye of the Storm. Unbender Tine multiplies with Echo Storm, PW-Venser, or Leave/creature-Venser with enough mana to work with. And also March of the Machines/Jeskai Ascendancy. Story time: first time I drew this card, I played a signet turn 2, Unbender Tine turn 3, the Gateway turn 4, activated, unbended, activated again. Then turn 5 with 6 mana I activated, unbended, activated again, used Catch, activated a 5th time, flipped, tapped for 38 white mana, cast Leave bringing back the signet and Unbender Tine, cast the signet to get a blue mana, recast unbender tine to make 38 blue mana to go with my remaining 31 white mana, and cast Time Spiral to untap all 6 of my lands and draw a fresh 7, played Warstorm Surge and Cathar's Crusade, and then looped Venser, Shaper Savant bouncing himself and bolting my opponent (there were just 2 of us thankfully) 15 times for completely noninfinite lethal. Turn 5. The floor on Azor's Gateway is mildly inefficient looting, the ceiling is hilarious.
To temper any expectations, the only other time I've flipped it in game, I was already at 15, I gained the 5, tapped for 20 red, played Inferno Titan, pumped to 15 power, cast Vanish Into Memory to draw 15 leaving 6 mana available in case I hit an untap effect, Time Spiral costs 6, abut I whiffed big time and died before I got another turn. In retrospect, I should have probably left 7 mana available in case of Temporal Mastery, but I didn't draw that either anyway. And any other time it's been exceptional has been entirely in goldfished games.
I love this deck. I recently built my own version of it (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/master-pai-meis-one-inch-punch/?cb=1543334443) if you're interested in peeping my list. I'm so excited to start taking it out for a spin. There was an old Extended list by LSV that won with Brain Freeze / Mind's Desire and I've always wanted to port it over to EDH, and your deck was the perfect shell.
I like your Arcbond combo, and I have a Boros deck that also wins with Arcbond. I thought I'd share my tech. There are two unique cards with a Pariah effect: Palisade Giant and Saving Grace. Both of these cards are different from Pariah, since they also absorb damage to permanents along with your life total. If you make a Palisade Giant or Saving Grace'd creature indestructible, you can cast Arcbond on it and then the next point of damage you take will be reflected out to all creatures. Pariah effect absorbs it back, then reflects it again, and again, and again. It forms a recursive loop that would draw the game, except your opponents take infinite damage so the loop ends when they die.
Since Saving Grace has flash, it's very easy/possible to flash this combo in response to damage to win on the spot. Thought you'd like the idea to see if it fits in your setup. Cheers.
Thanks for the inspiration!
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I'm sorry I missed this for like 2 months somehow.
I like the Saving Grace tech, but I might have to technically classify it as too efficient. 3 cards and the condition that one of my creatures gets damaged is probably restrictive enough, but all 3 of those cards being instant speed combat tricks might be a little much. Going from Zedruu and 6 untapped lands to "gg, next game" off of someone attacking me feels pretty aggressive for my tastes.
I see Thousand-Year Storm and Experimental Frenzy in your list. Those izzet cards have certainly caught my eye, storm and "you may look at the top card of your library" being some of my favorite text to see in magic.
Absolutely. And if you're playing with a bunch of basics and don't mind shuffling, Oath of Lieges is a sweet card here. I took a quick look at what's been in this deck since I made the thread here, and while some things like Vedalken Orrery or Rest in Peace are cards I think of as expensive, the only really big price tag that's been in the whole time is Time Spiral, and wouldn't you know it, they're about to print Emergency Powers which will almost certainly be a relatively attainable card shortly after set release. Almost no single card here is critically important, as long as you draw everyone into interesting things with Howling Mines, ramp to your interesting stuff with some mana rocks, and then play stupid permanents that throw off everyone else's plans, you should have a fun time. If you need inspiration for things to replace the cards you don't want to pay for, check the change log. There's a bunch of bulk cardboard in there that I've enjoyed profusely.
Artifacts: Chrome Mox, Vedalken Orerry and Alhammaret's Archive
Creatures: Sakashima the Impostor
Enchantments: Rest in Peace and Opalescence
Instant: Firestorm
Sorcery: Time Spiral and Temporal Mastery
Planeswalker: Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands: Mystic Gate, Rugged Prairie, Celestial Colonnade, Clifftop Retreat, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Sulfur Falls, Gemstone Caverns, Cascade Bluffs
Given this list, my first question would be: Is there any of these cards that you would consider crucial for the deck? If not, is there any of these cards that you would highly recommend me to invest a few more bucks in?
Now the second part of the post i'll throw some stuff that i was thinking on replacing these mentioned cards with:
Nahiri, the Harbinger to replace Teferi
Timereversal to replace Time spiral
Nahiri's Wrath to replace Firestorm
Copy Enchantment (already own)
Braids, Conjurer Adept(already own)
Timesifter (already own) - not even sure if good and might make some people unhappy
Gate to the Æther (already own)
Teferi's Puzzle Box (already own)
Blasphemous Act
Swans of Bryn Argoll
Oblivion Ring
Ghostly Prison
Sphere of Safety
Agressive Mining
Stolen Identity
Nezahal, Primal Tide
Now i ask: Is there any important card i am missing to replace the ones from your original deck? Any other recommendations? Should i invest some in lands perhaps?
I appreciate your time for reading this, hope the formatting isnt't to wonky. Cheers!
If you cut Rest In Peace, you're cutting yourself off of combos with Mirror of Fate. Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, and Crook of Condemnation are all things that can substitute for that role, though with a few extra steps. Alternatively, if you don't have the Rest in Peace or the Temporal Mastery, that's like half the reasons to worry about Mirror of Fate in the first place, so you could cut that as well and have an extra card slot.
As far as things from that list that are worth the investment, I'd say Firestorm. Firestorm, Time Spiral, and Opalescence are the reserve list cards mentioned above, the latter two are relatively expensive at the moment, but Firestorm is pretty close to the roughly $10 price tag its had for years. It's safe money that way, and it's a very unique effect. Outside of really specific interactions, everything listed has reasonable budget alternatives except that one. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of mine.
About your replacements, if you've never played with Timesifter, you're obligated to try it. I realize this somewhat contradicts mentioning the option to cut Mirror of Fate, but not all decisions need to be made at once. Timesifter is a lot like Shared Fate. You just have to throw your expectations out the window and enjoy the ride. And then after playing it a couple times, you'll probably cut it cause it's hot nonsense, but it's really worth getting to see once or twice.
Nezahal, Primal Tide is actually kind of awesome, thinking about it. Just thinking about that and Possibility Storm in play at the same time is kind of excellent. I certainly never considered a big stupid dinosaur for Zedruu, but in case you can't tell, I'm not exactly a big stupid dinosaur kind of player. It can even enable Barren Glory if you can Leave all your other permanents and have a multiple of 3 cards in hand on the previous end step. That's kind of awesome. I wanna flicker it every turn with Warstorm Surge and Swans of Bryn Argoll in play. Lol.
I think i ill get Firestorm anyways, was just trying to see if Nahiri's Wrath could do the trick.
So lets say im up to spending a bit more and i have to chose ONE card between the following: Rest in Peace, Vedalken Orerry, Alhammaret's Archive, Sakashima the Impostor, Opalescence and Temporal Mastery. Which one of these would you keep? Teferi and Time Spiral are a bit too much for me. Thanks a lot for the help man!
If I were you, I'd decide based on what the closest replacements are. Temporal Mastery has cards like the one's above, Sakashima is just a very niche Clone, Archive is Thought Reflection, Orerry is Leyline of Anticipation, Rest in Peace is Tormod's Crypt. The least replaceable is probably Opalescence, Starfield of Nyx is the only real alternative for that effect, and that's been sneaking up in price as well. But then you don't really need an Opalescence effect, it's just a card that makes interesting things happen. I don't know, you do you.
Anyway, quick question have you seen the new rules about token generation, It now seems the person who creates the token is the owner, not who puts it into the battlefield. Makes forbidden orchard even better but also adds another value to other cards that puts tokens in under opponents control. I.e hunted cards.
What are your thoughts?
Using mirror of fate for example.
I assume it's not there anymore and therefore cannot be used.
Prepare to be disappointed! They changed the rules so that the person who creates it owns it... AND they errata'd the text of these cards to say "target opponent creates tokens". The only thing that rules change actually effected are the very few cards that make creatures enter the battlefield under someone else's control as a replacement effect (like Crafty Cutpurse), as those replacement effects are the only way you can currently have one player create creatures that enter under someone else's control.
Correct. Which for an easy example of this, Knowledge Pool has its cards un-exiled constantly. Once someone casts them out of the pool, they aren't there for the ability to see anymore. Which is also the only way to sneak an option away from someone. When either an Eye or Pool trigger resolves, the cards it sees are all and only the cards currently in exile from the abilities written on the permanent that generated the trigger. In doesn't matter if Knowledge Pool or Eye of the Storm are even still in play, all that matters is the trigger is resolving, the cards were exiled by the same permanent's normal abilities, and the cards have not left exile.
Master of Etherium? Something something Scrap Trawler? The Antiquities War?
Grinding Station, Storm the Vault. I mean, it makes a ton of mana, doesn't that just synergize with everything?
This deck is fun
Pitted against The Ur-Dragon and Inalla mill, there were some wacky interactions and some very sub-optimal plays on my part (I'll blame that on not playing in 3 months). Poor start with no early draw acceleration, I didn't get any extra draw until I had Zedruu out and donated a land, but that got things going. Inalla had a turn 1 Altar of the Brood and their turn 2 milled my Time Spiral. At some point I Detained Ur-Dragon's Balefire, but before I could donate control Inalla wiped the board due to a couple other dragons. Still no card draw outside of Zedruu and very low on cards, the turn I felt casting her again was the best play saw me losing 5 life and milled 7 cards to Inalla's Memory Erosion, Painful Quandary, and Mindcrank as I needed to keep Leave. With my March of the Machines already in play, I use Leave to give Balefire back which cost me another 5 life and milled 7. Ur-Dragon used that to attack Inalla and take out the artifacts like Mindcrank. Next turn I drew Opalescence and gave a reason to do that again. After that Balefire went into Detention again.
After more swings in advantage between us while controlling each other - in which Ur-Dragon by sheer dumb luck kept getting dragons milled and mainly drawing lands - I managed to squeak out a win off of Ur-Dragon's Warstorm Surge. I still had Opalescence in play and then Mirrorweaved a mix of 7 of my creatures and enchantments (stuff like Leyline, Plotter, Nin, and Kami played the turn before) into Warstorms. Immediately followed that with Dissipation Field and Dack's Duplicate copying Warstorm with one damage trigger hitting myself to bounce that and do that again with my last 4 mana. I had exactly 4 cards left in my library, though I had Temporal Cascade in hand.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Next opponent played Mystical tutor, Kindred Dominance, and a bunch of pirates. Next opponent tapped out for a Consecrated sphinx. Somehow, I survived, so I cast Firestorm on opponent's end step, mystical tutored for mind's Desire. Destroyed all the creatures, and went to my turn. Cast the mind's desire, (Storm Count 1) exiled it, cast the rampant growth, mystical tutor, wrath and turnabout, firestorm, and Mind's Desire (Storm 7.) 8 copies of mind's desire later, i cast ephermeral Shields, and cast growth, tutor,wrath,firestorm,turnabout, shields, mind's desire ( Storm 16) March of the machines, Jeskai Ascendancy, jeskai charm, (then all the spells netting an absurd mana with 2 signets and walker) (storm 27) Then, Zedruu, Barren Glory, and temporal mastery. Casting all my spells again, netting enough mana to donate all my permanents to my opponents, discarding my hand with firestorm (killing zedruu) and passing the turn to myself, winning on my upkeep.
Game became stalled when the Wall Player played Meishin, the Mind Cage, and the zombie player played call to the grave. This led to 10 or 15 turns of no one doing anything, that is, until I cast Venser planeswalker, and ultimated him and someone cast a wrath... I then cast eye of the storm, cast a few spells exiled the Mind Cage, but stalled out.
Thats when the zombie player played throne of the god pharaoh, then cast Army of the damned, damnation (didn't cast) and decree of pain(didn't cast), and dark ritual, and tried to pass to his end step...
I then cast Fire Storm as my last card and stacked the cards to draw 52 cards with decree of pain then cast my own army. Then, i cast ephimeral shields, making another 13 zombies, then i cast mirrorweave, making another 13 zombies, and then i cast jeskai charm making another 13. for 52 zombies of my own, and then, arcbond to cast firestorm from my hand to kill the table.
He was developing board pretty well with Somberwald Sage, Oracle of Mul Daya, and extra draw off the Howling Mine I gave him. He ended up heading for a line of play of Progenitor Mimic copying Deranged Hermit with a Doubling Season in play and Muldrotha and Sidisi backing things up, but Razia was able to take the Mimic out the first time he set that up (that is a pretty flexible ability). I wasn't doing too bad with two permanents swapped (Howling Mine and a land) and Alhammarret's Archive backing up Zedruu.
After I took out the Mimic he held back the remaining squirrels (14) and I was trying to figure out whether I could pare down his board with anything I had in hand, initially looking to Mirrorweave and Infinite Reflection. Instead I decided to take insanity's hand and go for a walk: Bonus Round into a hardcast Temporal Mastery for two extra turns. First of them I got Dissipation Field down and then Knowledge Pool. Second one, an Echo Storm got me another Pool and another swap, Memnite got me Echo Storm again (and two more Pools), and I think I held back mana for some of the instants in my hand after that. Yep, four Knowledge Pools.
He definitely could have been more aggressive in attacks over these turns, but decided to go after the Deranged Mimic line again for the +1/+1s, first with the Hermit off of Muldrotha to bypass the Pools. I cast Arcbond to get Teferi and set up for what was coming. Probably should have set up further, but I did something else that turn that I can't remember - ended up not mattering, but I had 6 mana left untapped.
He paid the Hermit's echo cost and cast the Mimic from the graveyard. His squirrels were 3/3 and he had 22 of them without summoning sickness with 8 new ones. He decided to attack with just those 22 squirrels for lethal:
One regret is that I forgot to attack with Razia on my series of three turns in a row. I'd already hit him a couple times with her because he didn't want to chump-block with his Trygon Predator, and I should've kept pushing that.
I also feel like I've leaned on Inferno Titan + Infinite Reflection in many of my Zedruu games, though I still look forward to the Barren Glory win some day.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
To be fair, I'm averaging like 1 game of magic a week and keep making/changing other decks, so my Zedruu reps are lacking, but there's some immensely unlikely probability working against me. I just can't manage to draw and cast Knowledge Pool and Echo Storm together like that. Two cards together that in theory give me 4 Knowledge Pools is like my perfect dream, but reality's got some kind of shuffle bug that won't let me do it (without drawing my whole library first).
Unrelated note, I'm considering finally giving Dakra Mystic a shot. I found myself in the interesting position of copying an opponent's Prime Speaker Vannifar (with haste), but I couldn't pod my Memnite into anything. I've already got a couple 7s I'm debating between if I want to fill out the whole pod chain for just that occasion (I expect to play against Vannifar in the future), so that would just leave the 1 slot empty.
I do sometimes feel a little creature-light since I took Metamorph out for Echo Storm. But I also still feel like I'm only scratching the surface of what the deck can do.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Thousand-Year Storm is definitely something I underestimated at first glance. I recognized the power, but was afraid the requirement of doing it all in one turn and only counting instants and sorceries would hold it back, but it turns out I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 instants or sorceries that can generate mana or free additional spells even before these A, B, C, D (maybe E) get involved. Honestly, it's basically just like Eye of the Storm: you go off the turn you go for it or you sputter out and probably die horribly. It's gonna be swapping back and forth with Bonus Round for a bit while I decide which stays. I like that this upgrades Venser, Shaper Savant from the 5 card infinite solidly into the 4 card infinite club, as with enough mana or enough "TYStorm" count and Cowardice, you can cast Catch target Venser, bounce Venser, recast Venser bouncing Catch, and then use all the Catch copies to generate mana. (For anyone trying to count, if all you have are lands that produce one mana, it takes 35 mana to go infinte this way, but it goes way way down if you have things tapping for more than 1 mana or have already cast spells that turn.)
Speaking of 35 mana, the card I've been having a blast with: Azor's Gateway. Did you know I have 3 ways to untap this as an artifact? Unbender Tine, Turnabout, Catch // Release (edit: really 4, Temporal Mastery). Two of those multiply with Thousand-Year Storm/Bonus Round and Eye of the Storm. Unbender Tine multiplies with Echo Storm, PW-Venser, or Leave/creature-Venser with enough mana to work with. And also March of the Machines/Jeskai Ascendancy. Story time: first time I drew this card, I played a signet turn 2, Unbender Tine turn 3, the Gateway turn 4, activated, unbended, activated again. Then turn 5 with 6 mana I activated, unbended, activated again, used Catch, activated a 5th time, flipped, tapped for 38 white mana, cast Leave bringing back the signet and Unbender Tine, cast the signet to get a blue mana, recast unbender tine to make 38 blue mana to go with my remaining 31 white mana, and cast Time Spiral to untap all 6 of my lands and draw a fresh 7, played Warstorm Surge and Cathar's Crusade, and then looped Venser, Shaper Savant bouncing himself and bolting my opponent (there were just 2 of us thankfully) 15 times for completely noninfinite lethal. Turn 5. The floor on Azor's Gateway is mildly inefficient looting, the ceiling is hilarious.
To temper any expectations, the only other time I've flipped it in game, I was already at 15, I gained the 5, tapped for 20 red, played Inferno Titan, pumped to 15 power, cast Vanish Into Memory to draw 15 leaving 6 mana available in case I hit an untap effect, Time Spiral costs 6, abut I whiffed big time and died before I got another turn. In retrospect, I should have probably left 7 mana available in case of Temporal Mastery, but I didn't draw that either anyway. And any other time it's been exceptional has been entirely in goldfished games.