Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed is the quintessential mono-black general. He can be used for nearly anything, from an aggressive deck via Horsemanship, to a solid mono-black control deck, to dedicated synergies/combos. My build fits more into the latter two categories.
Looking at Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed as a card, what does he do? Well, he's 2BB for a 3/2 Horsemanship. What is Horsemanship, you might ask? Well, imagine if Wizards made an ability that was exactly the same as flying, except it was only printed on a handful of cards in one very obscure old set. Horsemanship is exactly that. "This creature can't be blocked except by creatures with horsemanship." However, because of the limited printing of Horsemanship cards, Horsemanship effectively functions as "This creature can't be blocked." So we have 2BB for a 3/2 unblockable. Sounds... Okay. Where's the combo?
Xiahou Dun as a character is also fantastic. After all, he takes an arrow to the eye, and when asked how he feels, he responds "Hungry." He then proceeds to eat his own eye. And his final comment there: "I feel that half of my enemies are gone." Priceless. Xiahou Dun is off-the-wall crazy.
*Note: I actually did use to play a mono-white Hokori, Dust Drinker list with Rest in Peace. So you're not alone. But when playing Xiahou Dun, there are certain measures that have to be taken against that card and its ilk, which I will discuss more later.
Chainer, Dementia Master: Chainer's ability is quite solid, though I don't like the sheer resource requirements. Chainer is one of the better mono-black generals after Xiahou Dun. If only the deck didn’t require SO MUCH MANA. Oh, and I love the Oblivion Ring trick that you can do with Chainer.
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief: Drana is scary at the head of a more aggressive build. While, like Chainer, she requires a ton of mana, she jumps more head on into the aggro-control line of play, which makes her particularly of note when veering away from a graveyard-based deck.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder: Endrek Sahr allows for shenanigans, but ends up feeling much better in the main deck than as the general, in my experience. I’ve heard that there’s a scary deck with him floating out there somewhere, but I have yet to see it. Maybe one day…
Erebos, God of the Dead: I've never been particularly impressed by Erebos, but I can imagine he might be solid at the head of a control build. Like Chainer and Drana, he requires a lot of mana to use efficiently, but I feel that he gives you less bang for your buck. Maybe in a life-gain-heavy meta?
Geth, Lord of the Vault: I love this guy. Mono-black control with Geth as a general is one of the few big-mana versions of mono-black control that I truly appreciate. Geth is very fun both maindeck and as a general.
Grandmother Sengir: The only mono-black general on par with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. If you’re playing mono-black, you should check this fantastic card out. I mean, she’s Ravi freaking Sengir! Probably the most powerful solely black-aligned planeswalker still theoretically living! How much more awesome can you get?
Kokusho, the Evening Star: Sigh. Well, I have yet to see this guy heading a deck since he became unbanned. But I'm expecting that he would be solid for most mono-black combo or control decks. Honestly, it feels corny. I feel the common response to this guy is going to be “Who’s your general? Kokusho? Okay then.”
Maralen of the Mornsong: I very rarely have seen unique decks with this card that didn't immediately get hated out due to its notoriety as a combo deck. If you can make it work, all power to you. But I would probably suggest making sure that everyone knows that you are running a control deck instead of one of the oh-so-common Maralen combo builds. Even then, Maralen feels inefficient, as one of your opponent(s) is still likely to tutor up removal for Maralen very quickly.
Mikeaus, the Unhallowed: He has his combo deck, but I find it rather inefficient unless it's pretty optimized. Honestly, even then, he just doesn’t feel good enough to me. I know that Mike-n-Trike was the new big thing in mono-black control for a while, but guys? You’re paying 6 mana for this guy. Not to mention the reasonably high-cost other cards…
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled: While lots of people leaped on this guy when he came out, I'm still feeling underwhelmed. I suppose he could be an okay control general, what with his pumping ability.
Phage the Untouchable: Besides gimping about 5-10 slots in your deck, this card is fine at the head of mono-black control. Kinda feels like a mono-black goodstuff deck, but that’s okay. The general is cool.
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker: Shirei has his own combo-control build reminiscent of Cheerios/Eggs. I've always thought it looked kinda cool. It is very unique, and allows for some really cool shenanigans.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier: She's so useful! I like her better main-deck, but having a tutor as your general (and better than Maralen in several respects, too) could be really crazy. Her ability to sacrifice herself and still tutor is nice.
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon: He has his deck(s). They are a bit different from some other mono-black decks. Voltron/Aggro/Control. I have heard hundreds of complaints about this guy but I have only seen a few people running him.
Toshiro Umezawa: ISBPathfinder's deck is pretty solid. I might be running this guy if I wasn't running Xiahou Dun. Toshiro is really cool, as one of the selection of mono-black generals with a particularly unique and interesting ability.
Volrath the Fallen: Solid Voltron Control deck with lots of big things, but less requirement for big-mana than one might expect. Quite unique, and interesting.
The history of this deck begins with a bit of a sad story. Back in summer of 2011, I played against a guy at a group near home who piloted a cool Nath of the Gilt-Leaf discard deck. I considered building my own version of the deck for a while, then later that year, I did so. However, I came home to find out that the guy had committed suicide.
From about a year before I made the original deck, to three years after making it, I was at the magic club at my university. I grew a lot as a player during that time, going from mostly casual 60 card player with moderate amounts of competitive experience to a mostly serious eternal player with some decent competitive play under my belt, average to very good for upperclassmen throughout the time I was there. I also grew to really love EDH, and this deck (and mono-black in general) was one of the four cornerstones of my love for the format.
While still at college, I continued piloting my version of Nath for a little while, then happened upon a copy of Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, and my Melvin-Johnny senses said "I need this card in my life." So I ported Nath to mono-black Xiahou Dun, with some slight twinges of guilt. I ran Xiahou Dun as mono-black discard control for a little while, but my heart wasn't in it. Eventually I started pushing it more and more towards combo-control and removing discard elements piece-by-piece.
As a combo deck, the deck started with just the janky combo of Xiahou Dun plus Rings of Brighthearth, Jet Medallion, and Cabal Ritual, along with some two-mana reanimation spell. Once I discovered Corpse Dance and put some more thought into the various ways to infinitely recur Xiahou Dun and other creatures, it began to evolve towards where it is today.
After my shift to combo-control, I started to really gain a lot of love for Xiahou Dun as a card and as a deck. Over the years, the deck has shifted back and forth in focus towards combo versus control, mostly leaning in the direction of the former.
Since graduating, I haven't had much of a solid playgroup, mostly just showing up every once in a while to miscellaneous get-togethers. I have also gotten some play in over Skype. The deck has been kept up during this time, though, with updates from new sets, plenty of discussion with other serious players, and playing whenever possible.
In deckbuilding for Xiahou Dun, I've added some amount of static control to the deck, as I tend to do. I've also done what I can to lower the curve as much as possible. Woe is me, being able to cast more spells and do more things.
Hi, my name is Nicholas. I'm a Melvin player (primarily a Melvin-Johnny, but I have known to play more like a Timmy or Spike from time to time) yielding from central California, currently living somewhere colder. Among other interests, I enjoy mathematics, cooking, and table-top games and their design. You may know me from my work in the EDH primer committee, my comments around the EDH and other subforums (I might have suggested Rings of Brighthearth), or from my presence on other parts of the internet such as /r/EDH and the MTGCommander forums.
I've been building Magic decks since Time Spiral block (middle school), with a brief month of extremely casual play before that around Urza's Destiny. I played 60-card casual for a while, and got into EDH just before the release of Zendikar. I've jumped quite a bit in and out of Legacy and Vintage (primarily as a MUD player) and dabbled a little in Standard and Modern (though I don't care much for the latter), and love testing out other variant formats, especially in conjunction with EDH. On and off since 2011, I have also worked on a custom card cube with some friends from college and other acquaintances. Throughout my EDH tenure, I have built and/or played EDH decks in all color selections and a large selection of different playstyles and degrees of competitive. I generally prefer playing mono-colored and two-colored generals, such as Geist of Saint Traft, Hokori, Dust Drinker, Sygg, River Cutthroat, Norin the Wary, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, and, well, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. Anyways, enough about myself. Back to Xiahou Dun.
How do I make myself happier with my opening hand?
I want the requisite lands/manafacts (Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Jet Medallion) to cast the spells in hand. You almost always should only consider mulliganing away lands/manafacts if you have more than three. In that vein, if I have three lands that can be used to cast all four other cards in my starting 7 card hand, I often can keep that hand.
I also probably want at least one tutor or draw spell.
Non-Clashing combo pieces are nice.
I can keep 2 solid cards that I can’t cast without drawing more resources if my hand is 6 or 7 cards. I can only keep 1 if my hand is 5 cards.
Spells that cost 2 mana or less are almost always keepable.
Spells that cost 3 mana can often decide what sort of game this is going to be.
Spells that cost 4 mana or more may be dead cards.
Cheap spot removal is fantastic.
Any card that you’ve heard in the past is crazy good probably is, in fact, crazy good. Oh, and add Corpse Dance and Rings of Brighthearth to that list.
Basically, think about if you were playing the hand against an opponent running 99 Swamps and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. If you wouldn't be able to play all but one card in your hand comfortably by turn 5 or so, you probably want to mulligan. That said, you generally never want to mulligan to less than five cards in hand, unless your five card hand is completely unplayable.
In the early game, I'm looking to start setting up combos and decide on my plan to win. I want to have at least two plans to the finish or engines/gas to keep myself going, and have at least one of them set-up within the first two or three turns. Xiahou Dun isn’t super likely to come down at this point unless I get an explosive start. Trying to set up an engine is the most important path right now, but if not possible, I need to enforce at least a little bit of control on the board, or start gathering resources for a medium or long game. There are plenty of cheap options to play here, and while mana accel is nice, don’t rely on it. It often won’t show up unless you force it to do so. Tutors and draw spells are godly at this stage of the game.
I’m continuing to gather resources into a win, or control the board until I can drop a win, if I’m not winning already. In addition to my early game tutors and draw spells, which can now start to be recurred, I am utilizing the mid-cost engines and resources; Rings of Brighthearth, Corpse Dance, Grim Haruspex, Necropotence, Nim Deathmantle, Crypt Ghast, etc. If I can get into the late-game bombs and mostly or completely set up combos, I am golden. I’m careful not to over-extend against the more threatening match-ups, here, though. But if all is going well, I should be casting Xiahou Dun by now and doing several things each turn.
Either I’m swinging in or comboing off very soon into the late-game, or I’m still stalling to set-up a win. In the former case, all is well. The high-drop creatures are my friends. In the latter, I have to pay close attention to my life total. While the life total is an extremely useful resource, I can be easily mole-whacked out of the game or otherwise die (say, to Phyrexian Arena) if I let it get too low. Blood Artist, Crypt Ghast, Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Kokusho, the Evening Star, and Tendrils of Agony can all help me out at this point. High Market will sometimes shine, especially with Gray Merchant of Asphodel or Kokusho, the Evening Star. If I absolutely cannot combo off at this point, then it is sometimes still reasonable (or necessary) to switch to an aggro-control strategy.
This deck is very good at winning out of nowhere and assembling new synergies around any particular card. With the ability to kill a player turn 1 in mono-black (Leyline of the Void + Mana Crypt + Swamp + Dark Ritual + Helm of Obedience) or have all three or more components of a combo in hand by turn 2 or 3 via the tutors and draw effects, the deck plays quite quickly. I have also done quite a bit of work to streamline the curve. The two pseudo-exception categories in regards to the curve are the small static control package, which provides backup to the combos and is very solid on a card-by-card basis (landing any one piece of the static control can be devastating), and the 5-6 CMC creatures other than Grave Titan. A low curve also means I can run fewer lands, which allows for more value.
1. Graveyard Hate. Again, I mostly rely on Sadistic Sacrament and its ilk here. That said, every once in a while, someone sticks that Rest in Peace. If it's solidly there and likely to stay out, the deck immediately switches to an aggro-control focus. There are a handful of dead cards in that case (about 10), but that number rarely goes up in testing.
2. Faster Combo Decks or decks that benefit from some of my control: Not much can be done here. I try to play carefully if I believe this is going to happen, and often will change a couple slots as meta-specific choices if I see this come up. That said, Xiahou Dun can put most of the latter decks under control long enough to assemble a combo, and the former decks don’t show up too often (and sometimes can still be dealt with).
3. Artifact Hate. I've attempted to branch out from earlier versions, which relied on having out at least three artifacts to construct a combo. If the artifacts are in graveyard, there are also Buried Ruin and Shrouded Lore. Yawgmoth's Will often gets used solely as artifact recursion as well.
4. In that vein, that Xiahou Dun's ability is so limited in scope... Nope, I can't say that with a straight face. But I do have a limit on the number of colorless cards I should be running (besides lands), which could be considered a weakness of the deck. Painter's Servant helps a lot, though.
Combos:
If I'm winning, I'm probably winning with a combo. Here's some selection of the combos in the deck:
Bojuka Bog: Having at least one way to deal with other people's graveyards is quite important for multiplayer EDH. Bojuka Bog works wonders in this respect.
Buried Ruin: This deck is very heavily reliant on its artifacts to accel the game or to win with. Getting back a Crucible of Worlds is also particularly fun.
Command Beacon: Cheating the Commander tax can become essential for XHD. Cheating the commander cost makes this even more amazing.
Geier Reach Sanitarium: Testing out this draw engine. It seems solid enough, putting cards in hand and graveyard as desired.
High Market, Phyrexian Tower: High Market and Phyrexian Tower are fantastic for a myriad of purposes. Having a free sac outlet on a land is just so useful, be it for saving creatures, or for kickstarting synergies and combos.
Maze of Ith: While it doesn't tap for mana, having this free blocker on a land is useful.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth: The major mention of Urborg is with Cabal Coffers. But given the number of colorless lands in the deck, it can be quite relevant in other respects. It can also create wonky politics situations against certain players that care about land types.
Lake of the Dead: I have mixed feelings about this card. It's amazing, don't get me wrong, but it's very easy to kill oneself with it. One should be careful not to underestimate Lake of the Dead as either its controller, or their opponent.
Swamps: I always want to have more of these than I do. Unfortunately, there are so many good non-basic lands out there for this deck...
Blood Artist: Blood Artist can be used as a win condition with any of the infinite graveyard recursion combos, or just as a steady drain over the course of the game. The latter is quite relevant if I have out Necropotence or hit enough spells that cost myself some life (Bitterblossom, Snuff Out, draw spells.)
Grave Titan: The titan provides a pretty sizeable advantage due to extra sacrifice fodder. It also can serve as a beatstick if someone does manage to land a card like Rest in Peace. It combos well with Corpse Dance and can rightfully claim a spot as one of the select amazing 6-mana cards in mono-black.
Grim Haruspex: A cheap dude that gives seriously useful triggers whenever a nontoken creature dies... I'm waiting for the catch. Oh wait, it's even better. It has morph, if that ends up being relevant, say via Iona.
Painter's Servant: Enables Xiahou Dun, enables combos, enables so much! I love this card.
Priest of Gix: Priest is amazing. Priest plus Corpse Dance goes infinite so easily, just for starters. Priest is one of the best fuel pieces for combos in the entire deck. This card is lovely.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed: Xiahou Dun himself contributes to a significant number of the combos in the deck. He's a solid aggressive creature as well, and rarely does not come out onto the field at least a couple times over the course of a game, if not an immeasurable number of times.
Crypt Ghast: Given the deck's low curve, I absolutely need extra mana to function. This guy can easily provide enough mana for me to win the game the next turn, or just enough mana to keep me alive with the extort.
Dark Confidant: This guy ends up being a slightly worse Phyrexian Arena (avg just under 2 life), but on a creature, so that it can also be sacrificed for advantage, and for one less mana, so that it can be played earlier in the game. All around a solid card.
Geth, Lord of the Vault: A nice beatstick that can also easily get out of hand, or even become a win condition, with large amounts of mana. Though I like reanimating people's mana artifacts with this the most.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel: The life swings that the Gray Merchant can provide can easily be pivotal; this deck pays a lot of life to its own cards, and if it gets into late game, Gray Merchant wins games despite a reasonably light board presence pretty well.
Ashnod's Altar: It's hard to do graveyard recursion without sacrificing creatures, and the altars do their job very well in that respect. Many of the combos in the deck revolve around the altars, especially those with Priest of Gix or Pawn of Ulamog.
Helm of Obedience: "Oh, you're playing Helm of Obedience? I guess you're just relying on Helm + Leyline of the Void to win most games." Well, no. That is a reason for running Helm. But it's also a decently solid effect on its own. Telemin Performance is a pretty solid effect, and having it on an artifact, even with the X limitation, is quite significant. Even light mill can also mess up a lot of game plans for people.
Jet Medallion: In addition to serving as a ramp spell, the medallion lowers the cost of Cabal Ritual, Xiahou Dun, and others, allowing for smoother play and some combos. This card has served me quite well.
Nim Deathmantle: Nim Deathmantle is a solid recursion engine that I can drop in the early game and push myself into the mid or late game. It interacts quite well with any of the sacrifice outlets. Also, if worst comes to worst, I can use it to suit up Xiahou Dun for a beat-down plan.
Rings of Brighthearth: I always feel dirty when I crack a fetch, then copy the ability with Rings. Rings can be used with Xiahou Dun to great avail, in that he can either get back himself (with the copy) or get back two cards (relevant in several combos). Rings plus Deserted Temple provides infinite mana with Cabal Coffers or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Rings plus Helm of Obedience can kill two players. Rings plus Phyrexian Reclamation or Volrath's Stronghold brings back two creatures for a lower price. Finally, Buried Ruin and the Strip Mine variants can also combine with Rings for sweeping advantages or recoveries.
Skullclamp: Sacrificing creatures? Might as well draw cards on the side. Skullclamp is obscenely good with many of the strategies in the deck, be it to draw into more synergy, more utility, or a win condition.
Mana Crypt: I had one. I included it. It's busted. The life loss is relevant though, despite the inherent bustedness of the card.
Sol Ring: I would be happy to say I wasn't running Sol Ring. And honestly, there have been a lot of times where the first turn Sol Ring play was so awkward that I have forsaken it for something else (e.g. Dark Ritual into Necropotence). That said, the card is stupidly good in the format, and the Time Stretch-level accelerance on the first turn from Sol Ring and Mana Crypt is hard to pass up.
Animate Dead: One of the better reanimation spells out there, Animate Dead also has its place in several of the synergies in the deck. Especially useful with a lowered mana cost via Jet Medallion or Blood Funnel.
Bitterblossom: While the incremental life loss can easily become painful, the token production is amazing with sac outlets and to play around The Abyss or Blood Funnel.
Phyrexian Reclamation: As far as one-mana enchantments go, this card is amazing. In combos, this isn't extremely relevant, but it is solid for the generally few uses needed to keep the deck going.
Leyline of the Void: I don't really need this as an answer to opposing graveyard decks, but it's not unreasonable, and the combo with Helm of Obedience can very easily come out of nowhere on the first few turns.
Phyrexian Arena: Serious incremental advantage, with slight incremental life loss. At three mana. No arguments from me as to the use of this card to dig the deck further in the game.
The Abyss: This deck doesn't need to have many creatures on the board, so The Abyss is a great card to keep other players under control.
Liliana of the Veil: Mostly relevant for her second ability, which deals with decks like Geist of Saint Traft quite well. That said, her first ability can provide for wonderful reanimation targets, and her ultimate crushes opponents.
Cabal Ritual: Cabal Ritual has been a notable card in the deck since it started running combos. Getting back the Ritual with Xiahou Dun provides for very strong mana production, especially with Jet Medallion out.
Corpse Dance: Beyond its huge combo potential with sac outlets plus Priest of Gix, Grave Titan, and others, this card is obscene with Xiahou Dun. With cost-reducers, this card screams even more value.
Dark Ritual: Great for kickstarting at many points throughout the game, even if it's not super relevant in most combos themselves.
Dismember: Nearly free creature removal is nothing to scoff at. Especially power-and-toughness-reducing removal.
Entomb: With Xiahou Dun, this card is often enough of a solid tutor to start the ball rolling. Having the option of hitting a reanimation target is the icing on the cake.
Force of Despair: Any free removal spells are usually pretty good. This one is no exception, ranging from a removal spell to a wrath.
Slaughter Pact: Who doesn't like casting spells for free? Arguably the best of the Pacts, this card is a serious free creature removal spell.
Snuff Out: Given that I almost always control a Swamp, Snuff Out is another great free creature removal spell. Especially welcome in opening hands.
Vampiric Tutor: While not as practical as its brother Demonic Tutor, its early game potential is quite relevant.
Word of Command: Word of Command has a lot of potential to mess with the game state and potentially use up your opponents' responses. It's a nice card to bait countermagic with, as well.
Bitter Ordeal: Almost all of the combos in the deck use infinite graveyard recursion, with or without without casting infinite spells. Bitter Ordeal is a particularly convenient win condition when I don't have infinite mana or I don't have infinite storm, as infinite gravestorm is the easiest to achieve.
Praetor's Grasp: Either for getting rid of problems, grabbing accelerants and combo pieces from other players, or for winning the game in and of itself through infinite recursion, Praetor's Grasp can easily be one of the best sorceries a deck running black can play.
Sadistic Sacrament: This card solves so many of this deck's problems. It can remove annoyances like Rest in Peace and Iona, Shield of Emeria. It can cripple opponents whether or not it is kicked. And it can be recurred to win the game.
Tendrils of Agony: Lots of the combos cast infinite spells or provide infinite mana. Even without that, it's relatively easy to storm off, especially in the late game. Or I can just get a decent life bonus off of a solid spell.
Beseech the Queen: Given that most of my deck is CMC 3 or less, this card can often serve as another Demonic Tutor. Or it can just tutor for it. A great option as far as tutors go.
Buried Alive: A very versatile tutor that has started to seem potentially more useful with the increase in creatures in this deck.
Damnation: Kev Walker's art on this card is fantastic. One of the more straight-forward mass creature removal options.
Demonic Tutor: This card is almost always guaranteed to put an evil grin on my face when I draw it. Demonic Tutor is arguably comparable to the Power Nine in most formats that it is legal. So much advantage is gained in this deck from recurring Demonic Tutor.
Grim Tutor: A back-up Demonic Tutor. I was able to pick one up for relatively cheap, given the card, and it's proved itself quite well.
Innocent Blood: A wonderful cheap removal spell that deals with many of the more protected targets in the game.
Mutilate: As a back-up wrath, Mutilate can be a good choice in the right deck. Its presence in this deck has fluctuated over time, but I do like its ability to deal with nearly any selection of creatures, especially in the mid-to-late game.
Read the Bones: The scry can make this card absolutely nuts. A wonderful draw spell, especially with cards like Sensei's Divining Top and fetches, giving it some serious recursive potential.
Reanimate: While the life loss is very significant, as a kickstart to more serious recursion, this card is quite solid. It's quite amusing to use as a Dark Ritual with Priest of Gix.
The Elderspell: A meta-choice to answer planeswalker decks. Would probably switch back to Hero's Downfall in another meta unless I found some planeswalkers I particularly wanted to run.
Toxic Deluge: As far as mass creature removal effects go, few compare to Toxic Deluge. It deals with nearly everything and costs very little mana. Keep in mind, however, that the life loss accrued by this card can easily be gigantic.
Yawgmoth's Will: Another one of those cards that is basically power, though this one has a more secondary role: Artifact recursion. Given that I can't use any of my graveyard combos after I play this card, I use it sparingly.
Erebos, God of the Dead: He's just not Necropotence, as much as people want him to be. He's a solid consideration anyways, but for now will remain out of the deck.
Fleshbag Marauder: I don't need the body often enough to make this card comparable to Innocent Blood. If you are looking for more creature removal, though, this card is reasonable.
Guardian Beast: Solid artifact protection in black is hard to come by, and this guy does a pretty good job of it. It can also be sacrificed for mana at convenient times.
Hex Parasite: It is easily possible to run too many artifacts in a Xiahou Dun deck. This was one of them for me. It's fine as planeswalker removal, but not useful enough for my deck.
Liliana, Heretical Healer: Given the utility that she provides, and how easy it is for this deck to flip her, she was an okay card. But she was never a GOOD card.
Magus of the Coffers: 5 mana is high-cost for the deck. If this guy was a 3 mana artifact or, even better, enchantment, I might consider it...
Maralen of the Mornsong: Eats removal like there's no tomorrow. The life loss is also significant, and the anti-draw effect is bad with cards like Sign in Blood.
Myojin of Night's Reach: So many people telling me how amazing this card is. It still costs a royal butt-ton of mana for an effect that I could basically get on a 4-drop if I really needed it.
Necrotic Ooze: Some nifty combos here, but not impressive enough for a mid-to-high-cost creature.
Nezumi Graverobber: This is a really awkward card. The amount of resources it requires is generally huge, and it is incredibly vulnerable to removal. It just doesn't feel worth it.
Nirkana Revenant: Crypt Ghast is almost always enough. Not to mention that 6 mana is a lot for a generally worse card.
Phyrexian Obliterator: An okay beat-stick and huge boon to devotion, this card is reasonable for a more creature-based build.
Puppeteer Clique: Okay reanimation, but 5 mana is quite a bit. Used to fit in with a thievery subtheme.
Sheoldred, Whispering One: Fitting in with the general theme of high mana-cost cards that don't do enough when they come in, Sheoldred would eat removal more often than doing anything else.
Shriekmaw: If you're really low on creature removal, this guy is okay.
Solemn Simulacrum: Got cut for similar reasons to Hex Parasite. Also, not actually a cost-efficient card for most well-constructed decks.
Withered Wretch: Too much mana investment for an effect that I don't need super often; it's generally too slow for the few graveyard decks that I actually have to worry about.
Xathrid Necromancer: A solid combo card that I may revisit in the future. At the time it was cut, it wasn't fitting in with the deck, though. Can serve as a second Pawn of Ulamog in the current build.
Charcoal Diamond: You can certainly do worse as far as mana ramp is concerned. But you can also certainly do better.
Executioner's Capsule: It's neat that it can be recurred with Xiahou Dun, despite being an artifact, but not neat enough to make it good enough as a removal spell.
Gilded Lotus: Between being 5 mana and being difficult to recur, Gilded Lotus doesn't fit in this build of Xiahou Dun.
Helm of Awakening: A nice second copy of Jet Medallion, I cut the Helm mostly because of its ability to be used by opponents, but also because it was becoming less and less necessary to have said second copy.
Oblivion Stone: As an anti-Iona or anti-Rest in Peace card, this is fine, but I really don't like it hitting my own artifacts and enchantments.
Sculpting Steel: Wasn't proving useful enough in a more artifact-heavy build, and I only have 7 artifacts I would consider cloning in the current build.
Tawnos's Coffin: A solid card while Iona was legal. With her gone, this card is not good enough.
Thornbite Staff: Was only in the deck for one mediocre combo. Might have potential, but is too resource intensive for the current build.
Black Market: While it can technically provide more mana, this card is almost always worse than Gilded Lotus.
Bloodchief Ascension: Great potential, lost by the difficulty in set-up and the likelihood it will be blown up before it is active.
Blood Funnel: What's that you say? A sac outlet and a cost lowerer? A bit of a weird card, but Blood Funnel enables some nifty shenanigans with Corpse Dance. Casting some of the utility cards for two less mana is an added bonus. That said, it doesn't really interact as well with the deck as one might expect.
Carnival of Souls: This was present for the sake of certain combos, but it ended up killing me more often than winning me games.
Contamination: Not enough creatures in the current build to really use this card effectively, but it is decent for mono-black control decks.
Gate to Phyrexia: Not enough creatures to make this card worth it for me, but nice if someone really needs artifact removal.
Grave Pact: A bit of the "High-mana-cost cards with low immediate impact" effect, but also I was just unenthused with it given the number of creatures in the current build.
Infernal Darkness: Just too high mana-cost for its effect. Otherwise, decent for mono-black control.
Nether Void: I wasn't getting enough advantage out of it for its disadvantage, as powerful as it can be. Belongs in a Mishra deck.
Night of Soul's Betrayal: Great against tokens and weenie strategies. When my meta changed, I eventually cut this card.
Oubliette: This black Journey to Nowhere is a solid removal spell for mono-black control. And, while we're at it, we have some more awesome Oracle text. I needed a little more utility.
Painful Quandary: "High-mana-cost card with low immediate impact." Okay in some mono-black control builds.
Strands of Night: Too much resource investment for the current build, but a decent recursion card for other mono-black control builds.
Subversion: This fits under "High-mana-cost cards with low immediate impact." Was in for a short while in the extort build, but it's pretty underwhelming.
Karn Liberated: A solid removal spell for more difficult permanents. Slightly too high mana cost for this build, though.
Liliana of the Dark Realms: This is much better in big-mana builds, but as a mono-black control card it's alright. Not anything amazing.
Liliana Vess: If only her first ability was better... 5 mana is too much for rarely more than two Vampiric Tutors.
Sorin Markov: While the second ability can kill a player, and the ultimate is also amazing, the first ability is a bit underwhelming and the card as a whole is rather high in mana cost for this build.
Ancient Craving: A fine draw spell, but underwhelming in the grand scheme of things for this deck.
Barter in Blood: This wasn't useful enough in the deck for its cost.
Beacon of Unrest: One of the few ways available in black to protect artifacts. While this is quite decent, its cost is quite high.
Black Sun's Zenith: The amount of mana mono-black can produce is quite a bit. Black Sun's Zenith is a good wrath effect, though not my top choice as far as mass creature removal goes.
Bubbling Muck: As a one-time effect, this is a bit underwhelming for the current build.
Choice of Damnations: A potentially very swingy effect, but never quite useful enough. (Hint: The magic number is generally the number of permanents you care about.)
Curse of the Cabal: Never to be hard-cast, this spell sat in the exile zone doing next-to-nothing for most of the games I played with it.
Death Cloud: This card needs to be built around... sadly. It's also a large mana investment.
Decree of Pain: Too high mana cost, even just for the cycling. Wasn't using it enough, so it got cut.
Diabolic Revelation: Way too high mana cost. If I want a high-cost tutor, there are much better choices out there.
Enter the Dungeon: If your playgroup will let you play it, cool. It's a fun card. But it was also too easy to lose the subgame.
Exsanguinate: I'd rather be able to win with combos that don't produce infinite mana. People also see this coming a mile away. Good for some decks, didn't fit in this build.
Gruesome Encore: Went in with the thievery subtheme. An okay reanimation card. But there's definitely better out there.
Head Games: Surprisingly useful, and yet, surprisingly useless. This card was mostly underwhelming for its cost.
Hymn to Tourach: A left-over from the more discard-heavy build, it could be nasty to players, but wasn't doing enough work, so it got cut.
Increasing Ambition: 5 mana is too much for a tutor in a low-curve deck. End of story. Moving on.
Infest: Decent wrath effect. Wasn't doing enough in the deck, though.
Killing Wave: This card is a lot worse than it seems at first glance. It's a reasonable card for some MBC builds, but not exactly amazing even when it does fit a deck.
Life's Finale: The extra effect is not worth it to make this a 6-mana wrath.
Pox: Like Death Cloud, very much a build-around card. While it's fun to watch the expressions on people's faces when this is recurred, it's not so fun to have to invest so many resources yourself.
Profane Command: Rarely was this used for anything other than the draining mode, and that was worse than Exsanguinate. Not worth it in this deck.
Shrouded Lore: This card was in testing as artifact recursion. Wasn't worth it.
Sinkhole: Land-based land destruction proved to be enough for me. Though the thought of turn 1 Dark Ritual into Sinkhole still makes me chuckle.
Smallpox: Just not useful enough in the deck. Again, fine for some builds though.
Syphon Mind: If this was functionally reprinted, but at 1 less mana, I'd be all over it. As is, not so much.
Temporal Extortion: You never get what you want out of this card. At 4 mana, that specifically has to be colored, that's rather underwhelming.
Unnerve: Another remnant from the discard build. It's okay, but generally either only puts pressure on one person, hits a counterspell, or does nothing. Not worth it in this build.
Victimize: I might include Victimize again at some point. It just requires enough of a creature base to really make it worth it. And that is not actually that hard for mono-black control.
More Swamps: Keep in mind, that while non-basics can be quite nice, you can rarely go wrong with more basic lands. Snow-Covered Swamps are also an option, but I don't really feel like dedicating the deck slots to messing with them.
Arcane Lighthouse: Meta-dependent. If you are having an issue with hexproof/shroud decks in your meta, go ahead.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All: I don't have room for this, because I need the Swamps and minimal lands that enter the battlefield tapped. But it's certainly a possibility for some builds, and great against countermagic-heavy metas.
Cabal Pit: It's okay removal, on a land. That's nothing to scoff at. I'd rather have a Swamp in my build, though.
Cavern of Souls: Since I don't really have a tribal subtheme and I don't have quite enough issues with countermagic-heavy decks in regards to my creatures, I'm not including the Cavern in the current build. But it is a good choice, especially in creature-heavy builds.
Crystal Vein/Ebon Stronghold/Peat Bog: These are okay, especially for trying to go fast. They are a bit more solid in 1v1, and I don't feel the need for them in this build.
Diamond Valley: An monetarily expensive sacrifice land, that doesn't tap for mana. It's okay.
Glacial Chasm: If you're having this much trouble with taking damage, you probably should change around your deck first, but Glacial Chasm is not an unreasonable choice.
Hall of the Bandit Lord: Entering the battlefield tapped and the large life loss make this all-in-all not worth it unless you really need that haste (Read: Certain tap abilities like Coffin Queen)
Haunted Fengraf: Mediocre creature recursion is mediocre. Fine on a budget, though.
Mishra's Workshop: If you are running a much more artifact-heavy build, this might be a consideration. Even despite owning a couple, I'm not really considering it.
Opal Palace: This is pretty worthless, unless you really plan to be hyper-aggresive with that Horsemanship.
Petrified Field: If you are running into difficulty with particularly useful lands being destroyed, this can be a decent back-up choice to Crucible of Worlds.
Phyrexia's Core: I haven't ever been close to including this, but it's an okay choice for artifact-heavy builds.
Scrying Sheets: If you are running Snow-Covered Swamps, this fits in well. That said, it can easily be underwhelming either way.
Thawing Glaciers: I don't think this is going to be worth it in a lot of builds, but if you really don't want to do the fetches, it can be an okay engine on its own.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale: I have yet to find a meta that is creature-heavy enough to include my copy in my deck. But I expect that they do exist.
Tower of the Magistrate: Good against equipments and certain removal pieces, for the most part. I prefer not replacing a Swamp in my build.
Artisan of Kozilek: Too much mana for my build, but okay for some people.
Burnished Hart: Again, too much mana for its effect for this deck.
Butcher of Malakir: High mana cost, but nice, if you can make it work as a beat-stick and control card.
Cathodion: Harder-to-recur version of Priest of Gix, with less usefulness due to its colorless nature.
Dark Impostor: If you're really desperate for creature removal...
Dimir House Guard: I'm not feeling it, but especially if enough tuck effects are run in your meta that can actually hit Xiahou Dun, I suppose you might as well run it.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder: At some point, I may test this out. It has some decent combo potential. Though the mana cost is pretty high.
Soldevi Adnate: Another card with combo potential, but given that it's harder to combo with than Apprentice Necromancer, I don't think that I'm going to include it.
Altar of Dementia: The unimpressive altar... If you're desperate for sacrifice outlets, or could really use that self-mill, though, I guess this is reasonable...
Blasting Station: I prefer the altars as far as sacrifice outlets go. But if you're starved for sac outlets or don't want to shell out for Phyrexian Altar, this might not be a bad choice.
Brittle Effigy: An okay one-time creature exile. Good for dealing with certain problem creatures.
Claws of Gix: See comments on Blasting Station. That said, being able to sac non-creature permanents does have some interesting implications, along with a life-gain oriented altar.
Cloud Key: At two mana, this sort of effect is fine. At three mana, it's a little awkward.
Expedition Map: A useful card. I just don't feel like it in my build; I have better things to do than fetching up Cabal Coffers or Volrath's Stronghold every single game. It's also not as recurrable.
Eye of Doom: One of the better permanent removal spells out there. You can certainly do worse.
Attrition: As far as repeatable removal goes, Attrition is not so bad. With a higher creature base, I might consider it.
Bad Moon: Sometimes that one power makes all the difference.
Blanket of Night: If you get too bogged down with non-basics, you should probably cut some non-basics. If you really don't want to do so, I suppose you do have the option of this card.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon: If only his second ability didn't hit the controller's creatures and enchantments, and he didn't cost way too much mana, I might consider it.
Hatred: Kills one player. But it can also easily kill you. If it were one less mana, I would be more likely to run it. But it is good for some Xiahou Dun decks.
Imp's Mischief: Mono-black goes out of its way to get all of the wonky effects, just with some gross extra cost. This card could be cool in the right deck. I'm not wowed enough by it yet.
Moonlight Bargain: Solid draw card, just a bit high in resource investment for me.
Shred Memory: If the base effect were a bit more useful, then the Transmute would make this worth it for me. Other decks would be more likely to run it, though.
Sudden Spoiling: It's a cool enough effect, but I don't want to have to spend a card and the mana on this first, and then also have to have the removal present in hand. Other decks might be more willing to do that, though.
Blood Tribute: Personally, I hold an irrational hatred for this card. It's not that great; it has a stupidly high mana cost. Though it can put you close to killing a player. I just have horrible memories of this card in casual 60-card magic.
Cabal Therapy: It's an okay discard spell for more creature-heavy builds.
Doomsday: A build-around card, but it can be quite good in the right build.
Dread Return: Hard-cast, this card is not very good. Flashed back, in a creature-heavy deck, it can be fantastic.
Exhume: For now, I'd rather just run the enchantments and Reanimate. This might be useful in certain metas and builds, but I'm not feeling it.
Gild: Solid removal, if you're up for 4-mana removal.
Grim Discovery: Good recursion under the right circumstances. I'm not that interested in more graveyard-to-hand recursion right now, though, given Xiahou Dun himself and Phyrexian Reclamation.
Thoughtseize: This can be a very solid inclusion. I'm not currently focusing in on targeted discard, but I have considered it, and it is a reasonable choice.
2/3/15: -Black Sun's Zenith +Word of Command. Black Sun's Zenith has been underwhelming cost-wise and is not as able to be recurred as I'd like. I'm interested in testing out Word of Command as an anti-control card, whether it be to bait countermagic, or to direct other resources where I would like them to go.
2/5/15: -Beacon of Unrest +Guardian Beast. After having the Beacon sit in hand again and again without being cast, and considering that it suffers from the same recursion problems, it seemed like a reasonable choice to cut. Guardian Beast is a solid artifact protector that can also be sacrificed for mana if I need it for a kickstart of a combo (or to cast a win condition).
3/29/15: - Archfiend of Depravity - Archfiend has been even more underwhelming than Bloodgift Demon ever was. The effect is just a little too mild.
+ Sidisi, Undead Vizier - Sidisi is my next card to check out in the 5 mana beater slot. She also has an awesome tutor ability, especially with Corpse Dance.
- Oubliette - When it comes down to it, it is just an overcosted Journey to Nowhere. While that's actually quite reasonable as far as black removal choices go, I want to test some replacement options.
+ Silence the Believers - While this is quite mana-intensive, it seems like it might just be worth it. We'll see.
- Dance of the Dead, Night's Whisper - Needed slots for testing. These cards are still cool, but I figured they are reasonable choices to sub out, especially as duplicates.
+ Shrouded Lore - Artifact recursion is nice. Testing to see if this'll cost too much mana or generally be viable.
+ Imp's Mischief - Should provide for some interesting moments, at least. I'm hoping that this will prove as useful as it potentially suggests.
7/26/15: - Guardian Beast - I was not the most impressed by this card. It was useful, but only in specific circumstances. Generally it was just a creature I could sacrifice.
+ Liliana, Heretical Healer - While her abilities don't quite lend themselves perfectly to this deck, they do some work, and she is flipped quite easily as well. Currently testing her out.
Also testing Dark Petition.
I'd like to give mention and thanks to XeroxedFool (Xiahou Dun list here) for his list and ideas within and ISBPathfinder (Toshiro list here) for some percentage of my motivation to post this list.
01/23/15: Fate Reforged is released.
01/27/15: Original Posting. Started Changelog.
01/28/15: Started Bookkeeping Section.
02/07/15: Fate Reforged Review Posted.
02/13/15: Some formatting updates. More to follow.
5/5/15: Updated several sections, in part with changes from late March.
What would you replace bob and chains with? I own the almost all the other cards except those. I like the effort you put into this post by the way, there is a lot of info in there. I'm still in the deckbuilding phase so it is hard for me to evaluate the cards without playtesting them.
Nice deck! Quite a bit more combo than mine, but I have been having a bit of trouble closing out games lately so I will take a close look at your combos for possible includes, playing a lot of the pieces already.
How has Tawnos's Coffin played for you? Not something I ever considered before. Repeatable removal for generals is pretty nice, too bad it is not recurrable with XDOE.
What about Black Sun's Zenith? I have always found it very underwhelming and often expensive. Also I feel like the shuffle into library is also a liability in XDOE. I like playing my wraths early knowing I can probably recover them with my general if needed as the game goes on. I think you should consider living death in that slot. Even if you are creature light, with your general and either grave titan or Pawn of Ulamog, all you need is one more creature on the board or in the yard to go infinite with phyrexian altar. Think of it more as a combo piece that can double as a sweeper and you will not be disappointed. Edit: also you are already running entomb, which is a slick way of setting up a living death loop.
What would you replace bob and chains with? I own the almost all the other cards except those. I like the effort you put into this post by the way, there is a lot of info in there. I'm still in the deckbuilding phase so it is hard for me to evaluate the cards without playtesting them.
Chains of Mephistopheles serves a relatively unique role as a wonky card and a friend against control decks. That said, for similar function replacements I'd probably go with either Word of Command or targeted discard. You could always replace it with another combo or removal piece, though.
Nice deck! Quite a bit more combo than mine, but I have been having a bit of trouble closing out games lately so I will take a close look at your combos for possible includes, playing a lot of the pieces already.
Thanks! I looked over at your list and I'll make some comments over there shortly.
How has Tawnos's Coffin played for you? Not something I ever considered before. Repeatable removal for generals is pretty nice, too bad it is not recurrable with XDOE.
It's a little high in mana requirements, but I much prefer it to having Karn Liberated or Spine of Ish Sah. It's mostly in as a backup plan if I don't hit Sadistic Sacrament in the early game, but it has served me well a lot of the time. I do wish I could keep it in my opening hands more often, though.
What about Black Sun's Zenith? I have always found it very underwhelming and often expensive. Also I feel like the shuffle into library is also a liability in XDOE. I like playing my wraths early knowing I can probably recover them with my general if needed as the game goes on. I think you should consider living death in that slot. Even if you are creature light, with your general and either grave titan or Pawn of Ulamog, all you need is one more creature on the board or in the yard to go infinite with phyrexian altar. Think of it more as a combo piece that can double as a sweeper and you will not be disappointed. Edit: also you are already running entomb, which is a slick way of setting up a living death loop.
Yeah, I've been a little underwhelmed by it as well, though it is not a completely unreasonable choice. I don't think it's closest to the chopping block, but it's around there. I am getting Guardian Beast and Word of Command some time soon, so it might be one of the cards that I cut in the process of adding those two. I also don't like Living Death's CMC; note that my deck maxes out at 6 at the moment. That said, I'll consider it. If I feel like I'm having enough creatures (three, maybe?) in the yard over the course of the game... Though Victimize would be a little more likely.
Nice deck! Quite a bit more combo than mine, but I have been having a bit of trouble closing out games lately so I will take a close look at your combos for possible includes, playing a lot of the pieces already.
Thanks! I looked over at your list and I'll make some comments over there shortly.
How has Tawnos's Coffin played for you? Not something I ever considered before. Repeatable removal for generals is pretty nice, too bad it is not recurrable with XDOE.
It's a little high in mana requirements, but I much prefer it to having Karn Liberated or Spine of Ish Sah. It's mostly in as a backup plan if I don't hit Sadistic Sacrament in the early game, but it has served me well a lot of the time. I do wish I could keep it in my opening hands more often, though.
What about Black Sun's Zenith? I have always found it very underwhelming and often expensive. Also I feel like the shuffle into library is also a liability in XDOE. I like playing my wraths early knowing I can probably recover them with my general if needed as the game goes on. I think you should consider living death in that slot. Even if you are creature light, with your general and either grave titan or Pawn of Ulamog, all you need is one more creature on the board or in the yard to go infinite with phyrexian altar. Think of it more as a combo piece that can double as a sweeper and you will not be disappointed. Edit: also you are already running entomb, which is a slick way of setting up a living death loop.
Yeah, I've been a little underwhelmed by it as well, though it is not a completely unreasonable choice. I don't think it's closest to the chopping block, but it's around there. I am getting Guardian Beast and Word of Command some time soon, so it might be one of the cards that I cut in the process of adding those two. I also don't like Living Death's CMC; note that my deck maxes out at 6 at the moment. That said, I'll consider it. If I feel like I'm having enough creatures (three, maybe?) in the yard over the course of the game... Though Victimize would be a little more likely.
Not sure I see the parallels between coffin and karn, spine or sacrament. Isn't coffin just over-costed creature exile, or am I missing some interaction? Exiling Bruna's auras would be nice I guess. I am running silence the believers in my over-costed creature exile slot to great effect. It scales like a boss and is recurrable with XD.
Definitely stick Guardian Beast in there. I run it in my other mono-black list, a casual Commander Greven il-vec voltron list that focuses heavily on artifacts and it has been great.
Not sure I see the parallels between coffin and karn, spine or sacrament. Isn't coffin just over-costed creature exile, or am I missing some interaction? Exiling Bruna's auras would be nice I guess. I am running silence the believers in my over-costed creature exile slot to great effect. It scales like a boss and is recurrable with XD.
Definitely stick Guardian Beast in there. I run it in my other mono-black list, a casual Commander Greven il-vec voltron list that focuses heavily on artifacts and it has been great.
The uses I would have for Karn/Spine or Sacrament: Removal of Iona, Graveyard Hate permanents, and other threats.
The uses I would have for Coffin: Iona, other threats, generals.
In terms of those uses, Coffin has effectively a lower cost than Karn/Spine.
Silence the Believers might be worth it... I'm unsure still. I guess I might test it at some point, though high-costed removal has never been high on my priority list.
Is there a particular reason why Yawgmoth's Will is excluded from your list? Seems like it would be very synergistic with the commander, allowing you to pay 3 and cast whatever you want from your GY each turn, including your commander.
Is there a particular reason why Yawgmoth's Will is excluded from your list? Seems like it would be very synergistic with the commander, allowing you to pay 3 and cast whatever you want from your GY each turn, including your commander.
I'm running Yawgmoth's Will... It's relatively necessary as part of the artifact recursion, actually.
I'll second deegeebee and say Silence the Believers is worth a slot. Indestructible creatures are a big problem in my meta, and silence does a great job of letting me remove a few key creatures from the battlefield.
I'll second deegeebee and say Silence the Believers is worth a slot. Indestructible creatures are a big problem in my meta, and silence does a great job of letting me remove a few key creatures from the battlefield.
It is only a 50 cent card. I'll try to pick one up some time soon and test it some in place of Coffin.
Black Sun's Zenith has been underwhelming cost-wise and is not as able to be recurred as I'd like. I'm interested in testing out Word of Command as an anti-control card, whether it be to bait countermagic, or to direct other resources where I would like them to go.
Essentially, any of the combos says: Have a mana source, have a recursion source, have a sacrifice outlet. Sometimes two of those are the same, at least to some degree. Blood Funnel acts as both a mana source and a sacrifice outlet, to some degree. Xiahou Dun himself sacrifices and recurs.
If you're wondering about a specific combo, I can also explain that. I may try to put explanations on each of the ones I listed some time soon.
Black Sun's Zenith has been underwhelming cost-wise and is not as able to be recurred as I'd like. I'm interested in testing out Word of Command as an anti-control card, whether it be to bait countermagic, or to direct other resources where I would like them to go.
Any word ( ) on the results of this yet?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Black Sun's Zenith has been underwhelming cost-wise and is not as able to be recurred as I'd like. I'm interested in testing out Word of Command as an anti-control card, whether it be to bait countermagic, or to direct other resources where I would like them to go.
Any word ( ) on the results of this yet?
Sadly, no opportunity to test in person yet. Solitaire it ate a counterspell though.
I have no camera set up and telling you what I am doing sounds painful.
Ah. Yeah, for a while (when I was between groups) I played primarily with college friends over Skype. Not having a camera makes things difficult, though. I think our general solution for that was Cockatrice until someone who wanted to join brought a camera, though that has its own inherent issues. A decent USB webcam can be acquired for about $30-$50, if you find yourself in a similar situation of knowing people to play against but having difficulty reaching a local playgroup.
If Word of Command plays out ideally, I'll be able to use it to redirect artifact/enchantment removal. Though most of that is instant speed, so it might be a little questionable in that respect. I like how the mana restriction prevents shenanigans with crushing one's own board, though. I'd also probably enjoy using it to cast other players' wrath effects. I may ask what they want me to cast (in non-obvious cases) first, though, to see if I support that plan over messing things up for them or someone else. Oh, and failing to find on tutors could also be amusing. I'm very much looking forward to when I am playing against someone and get to cast this. *Evil laughter ensues*
Ah. Yeah, for a while (when I was between groups) I played primarily with college friends over Skype. Not having a camera makes things difficult, though. I think our general solution for that was Cockatrice until someone who wanted to join brought a camera, though that has its own inherent issues. A decent USB webcam can be acquired for about $30-$50, if you find yourself in a similar situation of knowing people to play against but having difficulty reaching a local playgroup.
If Word of Command plays out ideally, I'll be able to use it to redirect artifact/enchantment removal. Though most of that is instant speed, so it might be a little questionable in that respect. I like how the mana restriction prevents shenanigans with crushing one's own board, though. I'd also probably enjoy using it to cast other players' wrath effects. I may ask what they want me to cast (in non-obvious cases) first, though, to see if I support that plan over messing things up for them or someone else. Oh, and failing to find on tutors could also be amusing. I'm very much looking forward to when I am playing against someone and get to cast this. *Evil laughter ensues*
My best one to date was in a 6 player game I got the UW player at the end of his draw step and cast a Curse of the Swine for essentially everything that wasn't mine. I have also had a few times where I have had people panic cast all of their spells and just drop an enlightened tutor, swords to plowshares, and some other spell all in one go in response to make me miss lol.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Ah. Yeah, for a while (when I was between groups) I played primarily with college friends over Skype. Not having a camera makes things difficult, though. I think our general solution for that was Cockatrice until someone who wanted to join brought a camera, though that has its own inherent issues. A decent USB webcam can be acquired for about $30-$50, if you find yourself in a similar situation of knowing people to play against but having difficulty reaching a local playgroup.
If Word of Command plays out ideally, I'll be able to use it to redirect artifact/enchantment removal. Though most of that is instant speed, so it might be a little questionable in that respect. I like how the mana restriction prevents shenanigans with crushing one's own board, though. I'd also probably enjoy using it to cast other players' wrath effects. I may ask what they want me to cast (in non-obvious cases) first, though, to see if I support that plan over messing things up for them or someone else. Oh, and failing to find on tutors could also be amusing. I'm very much looking forward to when I am playing against someone and get to cast this. *Evil laughter ensues*
My best one to date was in a 6 player game I got the UW player at the end of his draw step and cast a Curse of the Swine for essentially everything that wasn't mine. I have also had a few times where I have had people panic cast all of their spells and just drop an enlightened tutor, swords to plowshares, and some other spell all in one go in response to make me miss lol.
Yeah, the one thing I'm worried about is if someone decides that all of that instant speed removal should be targeted at me for making them cast it, though for the most part I should be able to play around it.
Yeah, the one thing I'm worried about is if someone decides that all of that instant speed removal should be targeted at me for making them cast it, though for the most part I should be able to play around it.
It depends on what you have in play and what is going on as well as how they generally speaking play their deck. The correct move if you are hitting someone after their draw step as a player being targeted generally speaking is not to cast all of your instants because your are just wasting them at that point assuming you aren't super in the lead already.
Different situations call for different responses to the spell to be honest.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Why Xiahou Dun?
But really, why Xiahou Dun?
Deck History:
Who are you to snark at us?
Average CMC: 2.77.
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Lands (35):
Utility Lands (19):
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Command Beacon
1 Deserted Temple
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 High Market
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Petrified Field
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Prismatic Vista
1 Strip Mine
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
Other Lands (16):
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
12 Swamp
Creatures (12):
Synergy Creatures (7):
1 Blood Artist
1 Grave Titan
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Painter's Servant
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Priest of Gix
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Dark Confidant
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
Artifacts (12):
Synergy Artifacts (10):
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Grindstone
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Jet Medallion
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
Utility/Mana Artifacts (2):
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
Enchantments (9):
Synergy Enchantments (4):
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
Utility/Static Control Enchantments (5):
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 The Abyss
Planeswalkers (1):
1 Liliana of the Veil
Instants (11):
Synergy Instants (3):
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Corpse Dance
1 Dark Ritual
1 Dismember
1 Entomb
1 Force of Despair
1 Mausoleum Secrets
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Snuff Out
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Word of Command
Sorceries (19):
Silver Bullet Sorceries (5):
1 Bitter Ordeal
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Sign in Blood
1 Tendrils of Agony
Utility Sorceries (14):
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Buried Alive
1 Damnation
1 Dark Petition
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Innocent Blood
1 Mutilate
1 Read the Bones
1 Reanimate
1 The Elderspell
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Deck Strategy:
Card Choices:
Changelog (started in late January, 2015):
2/5/15: -Beacon of Unrest +Guardian Beast. After having the Beacon sit in hand again and again without being cast, and considering that it suffers from the same recursion problems, it seemed like a reasonable choice to cut. Guardian Beast is a solid artifact protector that can also be sacrificed for mana if I need it for a kickstart of a combo (or to cast a win condition).
3/29/15: - Archfiend of Depravity - Archfiend has been even more underwhelming than Bloodgift Demon ever was. The effect is just a little too mild.
+ Sidisi, Undead Vizier - Sidisi is my next card to check out in the 5 mana beater slot. She also has an awesome tutor ability, especially with Corpse Dance.
- Oubliette - When it comes down to it, it is just an overcosted Journey to Nowhere. While that's actually quite reasonable as far as black removal choices go, I want to test some replacement options.
+ Silence the Believers - While this is quite mana-intensive, it seems like it might just be worth it. We'll see.
- Dance of the Dead, Night's Whisper - Needed slots for testing. These cards are still cool, but I figured they are reasonable choices to sub out, especially as duplicates.
+ Shrouded Lore - Artifact recursion is nice. Testing to see if this'll cost too much mana or generally be viable.
+ Imp's Mischief - Should provide for some interesting moments, at least. I'm hoping that this will prove as useful as it potentially suggests.
7/26/15: - Guardian Beast - I was not the most impressed by this card. It was useful, but only in specific circumstances. Generally it was just a creature I could sacrifice.
+ Liliana, Heretical Healer - While her abilities don't quite lend themselves perfectly to this deck, they do some work, and she is flipped quite easily as well. Currently testing her out.
Also testing Dark Petition.
2/21/16 and 6/1/16: See here. And here.
8/1/17: See here.
Bookkeeping/Acknowledgements:
How has Tawnos's Coffin played for you? Not something I ever considered before. Repeatable removal for generals is pretty nice, too bad it is not recurrable with XDOE.
What about Black Sun's Zenith? I have always found it very underwhelming and often expensive. Also I feel like the shuffle into library is also a liability in XDOE. I like playing my wraths early knowing I can probably recover them with my general if needed as the game goes on. I think you should consider living death in that slot. Even if you are creature light, with your general and either grave titan or Pawn of Ulamog, all you need is one more creature on the board or in the yard to go infinite with phyrexian altar. Think of it more as a combo piece that can double as a sweeper and you will not be disappointed. Edit: also you are already running entomb, which is a slick way of setting up a living death loop.
UGUPrime Speaker Seamonster RampUGU
WUGDerevi Does NothingWUG
RRRFeldon's Lovely LadiesRRR
Bob could probably be replaced with Dark Tutelage or Underworld Connections if you are looking for a card with similar function. That said, you could also put a little more combo in with Apprentice Necromancer (Necromancer + Priest of Gix + Sac outlet + Rings of Brighthearth) or Shallow Grave (Xiahou Dun + Shallow Grave + Jet Medallion + Cabal Ritual + Rings of Brighthearth) or another removal piece. There's a lot more options when replacing the control cards, and the build can certainly fluctuate between control and combo by a couple slots without suffering too much.
Chains of Mephistopheles serves a relatively unique role as a wonky card and a friend against control decks. That said, for similar function replacements I'd probably go with either Word of Command or targeted discard. You could always replace it with another combo or removal piece, though.
Thanks! I looked over at your list and I'll make some comments over there shortly.
It's a little high in mana requirements, but I much prefer it to having Karn Liberated or Spine of Ish Sah. It's mostly in as a backup plan if I don't hit Sadistic Sacrament in the early game, but it has served me well a lot of the time. I do wish I could keep it in my opening hands more often, though.
Yeah, I've been a little underwhelmed by it as well, though it is not a completely unreasonable choice. I don't think it's closest to the chopping block, but it's around there. I am getting Guardian Beast and Word of Command some time soon, so it might be one of the cards that I cut in the process of adding those two. I also don't like Living Death's CMC; note that my deck maxes out at 6 at the moment. That said, I'll consider it. If I feel like I'm having enough creatures (three, maybe?) in the yard over the course of the game... Though Victimize would be a little more likely.
Not sure I see the parallels between coffin and karn, spine or sacrament. Isn't coffin just over-costed creature exile, or am I missing some interaction? Exiling Bruna's auras would be nice I guess. I am running silence the believers in my over-costed creature exile slot to great effect. It scales like a boss and is recurrable with XD.
Definitely stick Guardian Beast in there. I run it in my other mono-black list, a casual Commander Greven il-vec voltron list that focuses heavily on artifacts and it has been great.
UGUPrime Speaker Seamonster RampUGU
WUGDerevi Does NothingWUG
RRRFeldon's Lovely LadiesRRR
The uses I would have for Karn/Spine or Sacrament: Removal of Iona, Graveyard Hate permanents, and other threats.
The uses I would have for Coffin: Iona, other threats, generals.
In terms of those uses, Coffin has effectively a lower cost than Karn/Spine.
Silence the Believers might be worth it... I'm unsure still. I guess I might test it at some point, though high-costed removal has never been high on my priority list.
Norin the Wary (BRB) R
Blind Seer (Hose Everything) U
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy (Double Dipping) UBR
Borborygmos Enraged (Crush Mountains, Eat Forests) GR
Kresh the Bloodbraided (Get Wild) GRB
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (Test Your Math) WUR
Toshiro Umezawa (Instant Reanimation) B
Dralnu, Lich Lord (Mill then Will) UB
Rakdos the Defiler (Death at any Cost) BR
Iwamori of the Open Fist (Wheel and Deal) G
Crovax, Ascendant Hero (Balancing Eggs) W
I'm running Yawgmoth's Will... It's relatively necessary as part of the artifact recursion, actually.
Norin the Wary (BRB) R
Blind Seer (Hose Everything) U
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy (Double Dipping) UBR
Borborygmos Enraged (Crush Mountains, Eat Forests) GR
Kresh the Bloodbraided (Get Wild) GRB
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (Test Your Math) WUR
Toshiro Umezawa (Instant Reanimation) B
Dralnu, Lich Lord (Mill then Will) UB
Rakdos the Defiler (Death at any Cost) BR
Iwamori of the Open Fist (Wheel and Deal) G
Crovax, Ascendant Hero (Balancing Eggs) W
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GUB The Mimeoplasm
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
It is only a 50 cent card. I'll try to pick one up some time soon and test it some in place of Coffin.
-Black Sun's Zenith
+Word of Command
Black Sun's Zenith has been underwhelming cost-wise and is not as able to be recurred as I'd like. I'm interested in testing out Word of Command as an anti-control card, whether it be to bait countermagic, or to direct other resources where I would like them to go.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
When I add in cost lowering, it goes infinite.
Essentially, any of the combos says: Have a mana source, have a recursion source, have a sacrifice outlet. Sometimes two of those are the same, at least to some degree. Blood Funnel acts as both a mana source and a sacrifice outlet, to some degree. Xiahou Dun himself sacrifices and recurs.
If you're wondering about a specific combo, I can also explain that. I may try to put explanations on each of the ones I listed some time soon.
Any word ( ) on the results of this yet?
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Sadly, no opportunity to test in person yet. Solitaire it ate a counterspell though.
That can still be productive if timed correctly.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
True. Clearly I need to find people to play against over Skype so I don't have to go through as much trouble to play against people here.
I have no camera set up and telling you what I am doing sounds painful.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Ah. Yeah, for a while (when I was between groups) I played primarily with college friends over Skype. Not having a camera makes things difficult, though. I think our general solution for that was Cockatrice until someone who wanted to join brought a camera, though that has its own inherent issues. A decent USB webcam can be acquired for about $30-$50, if you find yourself in a similar situation of knowing people to play against but having difficulty reaching a local playgroup.
If Word of Command plays out ideally, I'll be able to use it to redirect artifact/enchantment removal. Though most of that is instant speed, so it might be a little questionable in that respect. I like how the mana restriction prevents shenanigans with crushing one's own board, though. I'd also probably enjoy using it to cast other players' wrath effects. I may ask what they want me to cast (in non-obvious cases) first, though, to see if I support that plan over messing things up for them or someone else. Oh, and failing to find on tutors could also be amusing. I'm very much looking forward to when I am playing against someone and get to cast this. *Evil laughter ensues*
My best one to date was in a 6 player game I got the UW player at the end of his draw step and cast a Curse of the Swine for essentially everything that wasn't mine. I have also had a few times where I have had people panic cast all of their spells and just drop an enlightened tutor, swords to plowshares, and some other spell all in one go in response to make me miss lol.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Yeah, the one thing I'm worried about is if someone decides that all of that instant speed removal should be targeted at me for making them cast it, though for the most part I should be able to play around it.
It depends on what you have in play and what is going on as well as how they generally speaking play their deck. The correct move if you are hitting someone after their draw step as a player being targeted generally speaking is not to cast all of your instants because your are just wasting them at that point assuming you aren't super in the lead already.
Different situations call for different responses to the spell to be honest.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies