This deck has teeth! And, uh, other bad puns! And, in my opinion, is one of the best decks in the format, despite being the new kid on the block. Like, look at how smug he is! Nobody that smug could possibly be bad at anything. And he owns a zombie with fruit on his hat. Seriously.
I just claimed that I think Tasigur is one of the best decks in Commander right now. Thats pretty hardcore. Why would I do that? Because this deck can actually play multiples of every card in it. When I draw a Pact of Negation, what I actually drew was a new pact every turn. Snuff out? I drew six copies of free removal. Sounds like cheating, right? Whats going on is that every player that isn't currently winning is honorbound to be on my time. There is never a time when giving me the force on a Tasigur flip is wrong, because it will always be in response to Buried Alive! In essence, whenever another player is making a winning play, Tasigur becomes stupendously broken. It means that no opponent can win freely, and I'll always have access to an answer.
This guy, right here.
My History
Before I go on, let me walk you through my process of finding this guy. I originally started with a Melek top control/artifact deck, but it was really bad and we don't talk about it, and it only lasted a month or so before I built a real commander deck. This was super budget Mayael, and she taught me a lot of things. I filled the deck with nothing but enablers; I had the Worldly Tutors, Birthing Pods,Lurking Predators, and Sylvan Librarys, but my creatures were like Pelakka Wurm and Rumbling Baloths. People were always afraid of the deck and it could never win... this taught me a very important lesson. Some people buy all the bombs and don't get the expensive lands and ramp needed to use them, but I bought all the lands and ramp without the bombs! My deck was just an extraordinarily consistent pile of poop. I also learned that W and R are for squares and moved on to something real.
Up to this point, I was consistently getting crushed by players around me with their Jace the Mind Sculptors and their Palinchron's. It was time for change in my eyes, and this change came with a lot of research. Somehow, I learned that Sharuum the Hegemon is a good deck, and that sold me! I'd loved sphinxes since I was very young, and the first Magic deck I ever played was a really bad Esper Steel Overseer deck. Given 2-3 years of tuning, and Sharuum turned into a monster the likes of which my playgroup had never seen. Literally up until two months ago I was rockin' this lady, but decided that I needed a short break and to explore something new. So, I built a deck more suited to my own playstyle; I built Oona, Queen of the Fae control. The idea behind the deck was free/cheap control spells (Pact of Negation, Force of Will, Murderous Cut, Pongify, etc.), a couple infinite mana combos, and Doomsday. I'd never played Doomsday combo before, but it proved to be perfect, allowing me to win the moment I finished sucking the resources out of my opponents. After getting that finished and finally starting to tune the thing, bam. Tasigur. The Golden Fang.
Seriously. He's always so smug.
So, Oona is generally considered a top-tier deck. Let's compare the two for a minute. They both cost 6 mana... but Tasigur actually costs closer to 3 most of the time, thanks to delve, and doesn’t have to concern himself with commander tax nearly as much for the same reason. He is far better as a chump blocker and can be thrown down without messing up your curve, unlike Oona. As far as bodies go, Oona has him. 5/5 flier totally beats a 4/5 non-flier. Typing also goes to Oona, who, by being a Wizard, makes Azami combo extremely good in the deck, while Tas is just a Human Shaman who doesn't really get anything special. Oona’s utility ability is quite powerful; she wins with infinite mana, busts up your opponents Vampiric Tutor effects, and makes Faeries that can be Skullclamped and sacrificed. What about Tas? Well... his ability also wins with infinite mana, though it does require mass amounts of U/G (unlike Oona, who just needs a total of 6 colored to kill a table from the command zone, or three from the field.) Tasigur’s ability puts every non-land card from your deck and graveyard into your hand if you activate it 65 times or so. So, both are infinite mana sinks, and Oona's happens to be better in my opinion. Why play Tas then? Its really simple, actually. Oona is UB. Tasigur, the Golden Fang is UBG.
Tas has green! As somebody who has played his fair share of artifacts in commander, I have tremendous respect for green. It has some of the better draw in the format, in stuff like Sylvan Library. Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix are essentially extra turn spells. Beast Within, Krosan Grip, green has removal. Add in stuff like Tooth and Nail and some of the best ramp the format has to offer, and you've got yourself a good deck. I honestly think that having access to BUG makes Tas a far better commander than Oona ever was. Also relevantly, Tasigur’s ability makes him easily the best Sultai control commander. Suck it, Damia!
That aside, below is my list, which is currently a combination of my opinions on what makes UBx good and the awesome help of a close friend, razzliox, who I believe has the best GB deck around. He definitely has major influences on whats going down in this list, so go check out his list if you feel like reanimator is more your thing. I'm still working on the deck, and I'll continue to update the thing as time goes on. I just want to get this up here to get some discussion going on how to make a truly competitive deck outta this guy, because I really do think he will quickly cement himself as one of the best decks in the format, despite competing with Damia, Sage of Stone and The Mimeoplasm in his same colors.
Realistically, there are a bunch of good reasons to throw down with this guy. Personally, I think he is one of the most interesting cards printed in a long time being a cheap efficient beater, a powerful creature with delve, an ability that isn't broken but is powerful enough to win games, and smug as all hell. And he's got those sick nipple-piercings; I can't say no to my alternative guys, especially not the skinny, cocky ones. Anyway, why would you play this guy over the many other options? Here is what I have;
Every game is a winner when you draw seven!
The Mimeoplasm - Mimeo is a very, very powerful deck that also abuses the graveyard as a resource. However, Mimeo decks tend to be very proactive; dump the Jin-Gitaxias, establish an unbeatable board, and then combo off. We'd rather let our opponents think they have a chance, and get to cast their spells, so we can use our mana efficiently and only when needed.
Damia, Sage of Stone - She can be a control deck as well, but it usually ends up better to play as a "ramp into gigantic things including Damia" deck. Plus, Tasigur is way better at control than her due to his recursive ability. Sure, his card draw isn't nearly as much, but he'll actually get online before turn 10 in this deck.
Oona, Queen of the Fae - In my short experience with Oona, I basically came to the conclusion that the best Oona deck will never be as good as the best Tasigur deck, since he has a cleaner win and gets access to green, which is stupidly powerful for the control plan.
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV - This is usually the traditional control deck people think of when they're talking about EDH. Fankly, this deck is totally different; GAAIV is a proactive resource denial deck, while ours is a tempo-oriented reactive control deck. The gameplan in GAAIV is to establish a game state where opponents cannot cast spells, and your own creatures go unanswered for the win, whereas Tasigur wants to completely stabilize and win through raw card advantage.
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Oloro is usually the prime choice for Doomsday players, since it can also play Ad Nauseum combo very well and has access to insane amounts of cheap removal. I think Tasigur is just better, because he can play the control deck with complete success, at the cost of playing a marginally less powerful Doomsday finisher. The tradeoff is hugely worth it in my opinion, but if you want strict Doomsday, Oloro may be a better choice.
Alright, you have the list, and you have some good reasons to play Tasigur. You'll notice that its about all I have right now. Currently, I'm working on getting a stable decklist (Tasigur is an odd archetype in EDH, I'm still figuring out how to play him best), and I want to get that solidified before I begin a card by card, a gameplan, and so on. Nearly any suggestion will be considered by me, since I'm a very off-the-wall braintstormer (Momentous Fall is my current favorite unexpected star, being a card that most people immediately dismiss as they start to get into more competitive levels of commander, where the few creatures big enough to get value off of it are always things you don't want to be saccing), and I love secret tech.
2/9/15 - Added Abrupt Decay, Crop Rotation, Isochron Sceptor, Life from the Loam, Lim-Dul's Vault
Momentous Fall, Rhystic Study, Seedborn Muse, Snuff Out, Sultai Charm, Summoner's Pact, Sword of Body and Mind, Tempt With Discovery, and Toxic Deluge in place of Palinchron combos and a handful of reanimates; the deck performed at its best when I played hard control, abusing Tasigur's ability as a political tool to manipulate the game. Less combo-focused now to reflect that design.
2/25/2015 - Added Palinchron Combos: They're simply a far cleaner and less intrusive way to win, and all (except Palinchron) further my control gameplan to some extent. Notable non-combo cards include Kiora's Follower and Underworld Connections, which are both great (2cmc ramp, a second Phyrexian Arena) on their own and stupendous together.
Looking forward to the growth of this deck. Interested in your old Oona list for funsies too. When you're not going infinite does the "opponent's choice" for what you get back, worry you?
Also, doomsday being as nuts as it is, do you think it's a bit risky? Maybe not? I suppose if you get stopped in sequence by a counterspell, you can use Tasigur at some point to get pieces back?
If you dropped doomsday, what would you be slotting in? I may give Tasigur a try, but leave out Doomsday, and maybe put in mike/trike as an alternate win con
Mike&Trike is bad. Deadeye/Pali is the superior creature-based wincon in this deck. Both combos have a functional half, and a moving half. M&T's functional half, Mikeaus, is worse than D/P's functional half, Deadeye Navigator. M&T's moving half, Triskelion, doesn't combo with much else (other than Ooze combo), and DP's moving half, Pali, combos with half the cards in existence.
Keep in mind infinite mana is infinite damage in Tasigur as you can use Tas to draw your deck.
Mike&Trike is bad. Deadeye/Pali is the superior creature-based wincon in this deck. Both combos have a functional half, and a moving half. M&T's functional half, Mikeaus, is worse than D/P's functional half, Deadeye Navigator. M&T's moving half, Triskelion, doesn't combo with much else (other than Ooze combo), and DP's moving half, Pali, combos with half the cards in existence.
Keep in mind infinite mana is infinite damage in Tasigur as you can use Tas to draw your deck.
Right, I understand that DEN/Pal is better. I was suggesting Mike/Triek instead of Doomsday, keeping DEN/Pal as well. Maybe it doesn't work as well.
I feel like I'd be pretty terrible at playing Doomsday is why I asked for a Doomsday sub-in.
Looking forward to the growth of this deck. Interested in your old Oona list for funsies too. When you're not going infinite does the "opponent's choice" for what you get back, worry you?
I'll scrap up my Oona if you give me a few days to finish typing this stuff up. Between work and other obligations, I don't have nearly as much time as I'd like to, and dedicating it to this thread is my current priority. However, Oona was just a worse version of this deck; it also played the Labman win (Oona can exile my deck) along with Doomsday, it just replaced really good green ramp and removal with Skullclamp, Azami, and Mind over Matter type stuff. Oona was a Blue deck splashing black for sick value, and Tasigur is a UB deck splashing green for sick value.
As far as the opponent's choice, that's honestly the best part of it. If I'm just using it for value, I often care very little what I'm getting; I probably had nothing to do with that mana anyway, and its one less target at a more crucial stage of the game. If an opponent is doing something that needs an answer, I can always talk to one of the other two guys and say "Hey, give me the Arcane Denial and I'll counter that Tooth and Nail!" which is honestly insane and absurd. For the rare situation when the spell benefits everyone at the table except for me (I've got a Prophet, Vorinclex and Tas on board, Wrath of God on the stack), then it feels pretty bad, but I still have ability to go super political and say something like "hey, if you give me back the Venser to stop this Wrath, I'll take that Tempt you're about to cast."
Basically, his ability as a non-infinite is the reason why he is a good control commander; politics the dude! Also consider the mass delve spells, which keep my yard free of trash like Farseek.
Also, doomsday being as nuts as it is, do you think it's a bit risky? Maybe not? I suppose if you get stopped in sequence by a counterspell, you can use Tasigur at some point to get pieces back?
If you dropped doomsday, what would you be slotting in? I may give Tasigur a try, but leave out Doomsday, and maybe put in mike/trike as an alternate win con
Letting the Doomsday resolve if you have a counterspell is super wrong. Its possible to set up piles that don't even cast spells to win, so anybody messing around with that is in for a world of hurt. As far as kill spells and their ilk, I'm not terribly afraid anyway. Doomsday is my late-game finisher, and neither my plan A or B. It comes down when 1) I have enough mana to build an unbeatable pile, 2) I'm almost certain somebody is going to win before I get to untap again and I don't have an answer - which is rare - or 3) I'm completely certain that my opponents are out of the resources needed to stop me. Casting Doomsday on turn 5 with two blue decks untapped is pretty dangerous, but that ain't my thing! I'm actually working on writing the gameplan now, which should help with that.
I think this deck gets fundamentally worse if you cut Doomsday. I'm not the best with it myself, but its a great card for sitting around and goldfishing different piles, because you can set rules like "They have a Voidslime and a Path to Exile, can I win through that?" Anyway. Cutting Doomsday makes this just an infinite mana deck. First of all, Doomsday is your backup Tooth and Nail (probably the best card in EDH imo), because it can set up infinite mana. Second, its your backup Demonic Consultation+Lab Man. Another dumb combo. Also its just Doomsday... its like "pay three mana, cheat." People often talk about how difficult to play the card is, but I really dislike that sentiment. If Doomsday is too difficult to play in a deck, you don't know the deck well enough yet, because all DD is accomplishing is actually letting you stack your perfect top five. Get the magical Christmas land hats! Its real! On top of all this, Tasigur is already a LabMan deck, right? Why would a black LabMan deck not have Doomsday?
The point of that rant is basically this; the best Tasigur deck will, in my opinion, play Doomsday, and that is what I'm discussing. If you want to build a real good one, I'd totally throw it in there! At worst, you get better, right? If you want to build a really similar deck without DD, its probably best to play Mimeo Druid, because it accomplishes a very similar combo in a very similar deck, but doesn't play the card. If Tas is in the mind, my cuts would be everything in the DD section minus Pali and Reanimate, add Mana Reflection and a couple tutors, some more ramp, and then kill/counter spells. Pongify, Counterspell, and so on. Basically pump it with instants to take advantage of being able to pass turn and choose between activating Tasigur or killing stuff.
I agree with everything Avvina said. Note that if you do cut Doomsday, I still wouldn't play Mike&Trike. The reason that combo is good (in certain decks) is because it's easily assembled via Tooth and Nail. Tooth and Nail already wins with Deadeye + Pali, so there's no reason to have the redundancy.
Here is the list of cards I currently intend to test out once I find some slots:
Bazaar of Baghdad
Body double
cadaverous bloom
explore
gush
insidious dreams
Lion's eye diamond
skeletal scrying
yawgmoth's will
Is there anything I should add? I own all of these cards except Bazaar. I dont expect it to be easy to acquire, but it will come up. Also possibly Nephalia Drownyard? Both fulfil the same thing in a Doomsday combo; I could go Explore, Bazaar, dump Labman and trash, reanimate, free cantrips. It seems good as a backup predict, and if I have it already on field then I dont even need the explore. Drownyard may be better because of the 3 as well, and being able to mill other people's vampiric tutors, but the not going to hand is meh. Well see.
Oh man Explore is pretty good in Tasigur. It's for the explorers
Cadaverous Bloom + Skeletal Scrying is an infinite combo. Thats a wincon which makes you a threat. i wouldnt play it
Thats not really a combo, as I empty my graveyard really quickly, but it is a way to draw an insane number of cards. However, if I cast Stroke for 5 or so, that DOES g infinite with Tas and Cadaverous Bloom (hello bad prosbloom!), which is pretty sick. One of the reasons I want to try the card, though it may just not be good.
If you're planning on casting Doomsday repeatedly (in the case of Predicting your opponents to death), how do you keep from losing all of your life. Doomsday rounds up, so when you're on 1 life, it will kill you.
Also, how is Cad Bloom infinite with Stroke/Tasigur? Cadaverous Bloom requires that you exile cards to it. You could maybe draw your deck given enough blue mana to see the Stroke and an empty graveyard - exile two cards to return stroke, one to pay for the 2, and then each card beyond that draws you two cards, at hte cost of U for each iteration.
Let's assume you start with 6 + Stroke. Spend U, draw 10 cards. Exile two to return stroke. Exile 8 cards, spend U, draw 14. Exile 2 to return stroke. Exile 12 cards, spend U, draw 22. Exile 2 to return stroke. Exile 20 cards, spend U, draw 40. So for UUUU you went from 6 cards to 40 (and probably can't go much deeper given that you've gone through some 90 cards of your deck). I guess you probably win from that point.
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If you're planning on casting Doomsday repeatedly (in the case of Predicting your opponents to death), how do you keep from losing all of your life. Doomsday rounds up, so when you're on 1 life, it will kill you.
Also, how is Cad Bloom infinite with Stroke/Tasigur? Cadaverous Bloom requires that you exile cards to it. You could maybe draw your deck given enough blue mana to see the Stroke and an empty graveyard - exile two cards to return stroke, one to pay for the 2, and then each card beyond that draws you two cards, at hte cost of U for each iteration.
Let's assume you start with 6 + Stroke. Spend U, draw 10 cards. Exile two to return stroke. Exile 8 cards, spend U, draw 14. Exile 2 to return stroke. Exile 12 cards, spend U, draw 22. Exile 2 to return stroke. Exile 20 cards, spend U, draw 40. So for UUUU you went from 6 cards to 40 (and probably can't go much deeper given that you've gone through some 90 cards of your deck). I guess you probably win from that point.
Haha. Avvina plays in our meta, and one of our inside jokes is that any mild synergy is deemed an infinite combo, and therefore either banned or it makes you too threatening and people will kill you. My comment was in jest. "That's an infinite combo" is slang for "that's a cute synergy."
If you're planning on casting Doomsday repeatedly (in the case of Predicting your opponents to death), how do you keep from losing all of your life. Doomsday rounds up, so when you're on 1 life, it will kill you.
Also, how is Cad Bloom infinite with Stroke/Tasigur? Cadaverous Bloom requires that you exile cards to it. You could maybe draw your deck given enough blue mana to see the Stroke and an empty graveyard - exile two cards to return stroke, one to pay for the 2, and then each card beyond that draws you two cards, at hte cost of U for each iteration.
Let's assume you start with 6 + Stroke. Spend U, draw 10 cards. Exile two to return stroke. Exile 8 cards, spend U, draw 14. Exile 2 to return stroke. Exile 12 cards, spend U, draw 22. Exile 2 to return stroke. Exile 20 cards, spend U, draw 40. So for UUUU you went from 6 cards to 40 (and probably can't go much deeper given that you've gone through some 90 cards of your deck). I guess you probably win from that point.
Haha. Avvina plays in our meta, and one of our inside jokes is that any mild synergy is deemed an infinite combo, and therefore either banned or it makes you too threatening and people will kill you. My comment was in jest. "That's an infinite combo" is slang for "that's a cute synergy."
More or less this. The notable feature here is that, even if I have no other cards in my graveyard, I could always flip something that ISN'T drawing me 12000 cards which is likely what I'll be getting. Tasigur's ability should be played, in my opinion, as card advantage OR an outlet for infinite mana, and not really anything else. Its just another way to mill myself.
As for Doomsday, I generally can't keep doing it forever, which I now see. I clearly haven't played with the card enough, because I never realized that it constantly is rounding up, which would in fact kill me. At best that combo can be bluffed to maybe steal a win against a bad playgroup or an SCG pod, but that's not exactly sporting. It should probably stick with just stroke-ing the table.
IDK, labmac is a pretty good pile foundation, idk if you still wanted to run Hermit Druid combo? that could give you the resilence to not neet to run stroke piles and just occasionally naturally have deadeye + pali or whatever other combos. realizing now that one janky combo is victimize + pali + kederekt leviathan + e wit, which is pretty funny.
What do you think about Psychatog? Works well with graveyard and delving.
Add a Greater good for massive draws
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
What do you think about Psychatog? Works well with graveyard and delving.
Add a Greater good for massive draws
Yeah, I knew I was missing something. I very much wanted to test Psychatog.
As far as greater good, I don't actually have all that much to do with it. Its really good with my commander (thanks to Delve, I can cast him for one less every time I sac him to GG, so it could easily become B: Draw four Discard three), and would work well with a biggish 'tog, but outside of those guys it doesn't actually do a whole lot for me. I will be testing it, but it did almost nothing in my earliest drafts of the deck.
Doomsday seems very dangerous, especially in a meta where people learn that it's your main trick. They can just hold spot removal to kill your Lab Maniac after you use your last Gitaxian Probe or whatever to win, making you lose.
Sure, you can counter their kill spell. However, eventually your meta will start to know to hold on to their removal and counters. Idk, it just seems way too all-in.
Doomsday seems very dangerous, especially in a meta where people learn that it's your main trick. They can just hold spot removal to kill your Lab Maniac after you use your last Gitaxian Probe or whatever to win, making you lose.
Sure, you can counter their kill spell. However, eventually your meta will start to know to hold on to their removal and counters. Idk, it just seems way too all-in.
It is faily all in, but this isn't a "how fast can I cast Doomsday" deck. The same argument can be used for Tooth and Nail; why don't people just hold removal for it? Its because my competitive playgroup is hilarious. We have razz's Jarad deck, which is a threat to win every turn of the game from 3 on, a really dirty Momir Vig, Nin Artifact/Control (urgh this deck is getting mean), and a rotating door for this last slot. Basically, every deck can win our stabilize before I usually want to be casting Doomsday. One card wins are not that much of a threat, comparitively.
Also worth noting that the other place I intend to use this is grinding SCG pods, where Doomsday is notoriously good.
One deck in my meta runs doomsday and it leads to some absurd wins with free counters, cycling, and frantic search
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Here is the list of cards I still really want to test; any others?
Greater Good - It gets me +1 card with my general, and makes the next time I cast him cost one colorless less (delve away the Commander's Tax +1), and eventually becomes B: Loot 3 Draw One - which is absurd - but I don't know what else it does me. My only big ways to draw off it are like Palinchron, Deadeye Navigator, and Vorinclex. I'll probably test this with Psychatog when I do, and maybe a couple other fatties (RSD? I dunno).
Gush - Its a free cantrip for Doomsday, what can I say. The double island is really hard, so I don't have too much hope, but maybe if I make my fetches tutor with it in mind it will be better. My Doomsday is a lategame combo, after all.
Insidious Dreams - Its a second way to set up the combo. I don't know if I need the redundancy, but it never hurts.
Nephalia Drownyard - Bazaar 2.0. I like redundancy. This may be better for Doomsday stuff because it gets deeper in my deck. Plus, it randomly dicks over opposing topdeck manipulation!
Psychatog - He eats stuff out of my yard, lets me fill it for big delve spells, and is a gigantic beater. Doesn't do anything special, but it may be that the weird utility + beating face is enough to get there some games.
Thought Scour - Good with Doomsday, redundant, dicks over topdecks! Just like Drownyard except not a land.
I can see myself playing Magus, but I'm not a huge fan of it. Its worse than Bazaar because it doesn't work with Pali stuff, has summoning sickness, and dies to a fierce win. I dunno if I really need the redundancy of that specific effect.
How about testing Tempt with Discovery? It finds me Bojuka Bog, and it finds me Bazaar, both of which are huge. You're the one to see stupid success out of it, so I'll defer to your opinion.
Voidslime has always felt really bad for me as long as I've played it. Maybe you could try Foil as another way to protect doomsday? I mean, I hate the card personally, but I know there are people who swear by playing any free counter. Similarly, daze is an option...? (Seems really bad I know).
Hey man, I really like your list and some of my favorite posters have chimed in here, so I'm excited for the development of this deck.
Have you considered a Crucible engine or perhaps Life from the Loam engine? It has natural synergy with the deck and you gain the capability to Strip Mine lock people. It adds another dimension to your deck that I think would be pretty good. Allowing yourself to still play lands even when activating Tasigur's ability over the course of the game would be useful in the longer games, but it sounds like your meta doesn't have long games.
This deck has teeth! And, uh, other bad puns! And, in my opinion, is one of the best decks in the format, despite being the new kid on the block. Like, look at how smug he is! Nobody that smug could possibly be bad at anything. And he owns a zombie with fruit on his hat. Seriously.
I just claimed that I think Tasigur is one of the best decks in Commander right now. Thats pretty hardcore. Why would I do that? Because this deck can actually play multiples of every card in it. When I draw a Pact of Negation, what I actually drew was a new pact every turn. Snuff out? I drew six copies of free removal. Sounds like cheating, right? Whats going on is that every player that isn't currently winning is honorbound to be on my time. There is never a time when giving me the force on a Tasigur flip is wrong, because it will always be in response to Buried Alive! In essence, whenever another player is making a winning play, Tasigur becomes stupendously broken. It means that no opponent can win freely, and I'll always have access to an answer.
Tas has green! As somebody who has played his fair share of artifacts in commander, I have tremendous respect for green. It has some of the better draw in the format, in stuff like Sylvan Library. Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix are essentially extra turn spells. Beast Within, Krosan Grip, green has removal. Add in stuff like Tooth and Nail and some of the best ramp the format has to offer, and you've got yourself a good deck. I honestly think that having access to BUG makes Tas a far better commander than Oona ever was. Also relevantly, Tasigur’s ability makes him easily the best Sultai control commander. Suck it, Damia!
That aside, below is my list, which is currently a combination of my opinions on what makes UBx good and the awesome help of a close friend, razzliox, who I believe has the best GB deck around. He definitely has major influences on whats going down in this list, so go check out his list if you feel like reanimator is more your thing. I'm still working on the deck, and I'll continue to update the thing as time goes on. I just want to get this up here to get some discussion going on how to make a truly competitive deck outta this guy, because I really do think he will quickly cement himself as one of the best decks in the format, despite competing with Damia, Sage of Stone and The Mimeoplasm in his same colors.
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Bayou
1x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Cephalid Coliseum
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Island
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunken Ruins
2x Swamp
1x Tropical Island
1x Twilight Mire
1x Underground River
1x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Arcane Denial
1x Beast Within
1x Crop Rotation
1x Death Rattle
1x Delay
1x Dig Through Time
1x Entomb
1x Force of Will
1x Intuition
1x Krosan Grip
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Momentous Fall
1x Murderous Cut
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Pact of Negation
1x Reality Shift
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Snuff Out
1x Sultai Charm
1x Summoner's Pact
1x Swan Song
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Voidslime
1x Worldly Tutor
//Artifacts 5
1x Isochron Scepter
1x Mana Crypt
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
//Enchantments 6
1x Necromancy
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Rhystic Study
1x Sylvan Library
1x Training Grounds
1x Underworld Connections
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x Kiora's Follower
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Palinchron
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Prophet of Kruphix
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
//Sorceries 10
1x Decree of Pain
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dread Return
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Reanimate
1x Temporal Trespass
1x Tempt with Discovery
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Windfall
Realistically, there are a bunch of good reasons to throw down with this guy. Personally, I think he is one of the most interesting cards printed in a long time being a cheap efficient beater, a powerful creature with delve, an ability that isn't broken but is powerful enough to win games, and smug as all hell. And he's got those sick nipple-piercings; I can't say no to my alternative guys, especially not the skinny, cocky ones. Anyway, why would you play this guy over the many other options? Here is what I have;
Damia, Sage of Stone - She can be a control deck as well, but it usually ends up better to play as a "ramp into gigantic things including Damia" deck. Plus, Tasigur is way better at control than her due to his recursive ability. Sure, his card draw isn't nearly as much, but he'll actually get online before turn 10 in this deck.
Oona, Queen of the Fae - In my short experience with Oona, I basically came to the conclusion that the best Oona deck will never be as good as the best Tasigur deck, since he has a cleaner win and gets access to green, which is stupidly powerful for the control plan.
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV - This is usually the traditional control deck people think of when they're talking about EDH. Fankly, this deck is totally different; GAAIV is a proactive resource denial deck, while ours is a tempo-oriented reactive control deck. The gameplan in GAAIV is to establish a game state where opponents cannot cast spells, and your own creatures go unanswered for the win, whereas Tasigur wants to completely stabilize and win through raw card advantage.
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Oloro is usually the prime choice for Doomsday players, since it can also play Ad Nauseum combo very well and has access to insane amounts of cheap removal. I think Tasigur is just better, because he can play the control deck with complete success, at the cost of playing a marginally less powerful Doomsday finisher. The tradeoff is hugely worth it in my opinion, but if you want strict Doomsday, Oloro may be a better choice.
Alright, you have the list, and you have some good reasons to play Tasigur. You'll notice that its about all I have right now. Currently, I'm working on getting a stable decklist (Tasigur is an odd archetype in EDH, I'm still figuring out how to play him best), and I want to get that solidified before I begin a card by card, a gameplan, and so on. Nearly any suggestion will be considered by me, since I'm a very off-the-wall braintstormer (Momentous Fall is my current favorite unexpected star, being a card that most people immediately dismiss as they start to get into more competitive levels of commander, where the few creatures big enough to get value off of it are always things you don't want to be saccing), and I love secret tech.
Momentous Fall, Rhystic Study, Seedborn Muse, Snuff Out, Sultai Charm, Summoner's Pact, Sword of Body and Mind, Tempt With Discovery, and Toxic Deluge in place of Palinchron combos and a handful of reanimates; the deck performed at its best when I played hard control, abusing Tasigur's ability as a political tool to manipulate the game. Less combo-focused now to reflect that design.
2/25/2015 - Added Palinchron Combos: They're simply a far cleaner and less intrusive way to win, and all (except Palinchron) further my control gameplan to some extent. Notable non-combo cards include Kiora's Follower and Underworld Connections, which are both great (2cmc ramp, a second Phyrexian Arena) on their own and stupendous together.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
If you dropped doomsday, what would you be slotting in? I may give Tasigur a try, but leave out Doomsday, and maybe put in mike/trike as an alternate win con
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
Keep in mind infinite mana is infinite damage in Tasigur as you can use Tas to draw your deck.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
Right, I understand that DEN/Pal is better. I was suggesting Mike/Triek instead of Doomsday, keeping DEN/Pal as well. Maybe it doesn't work as well.
I feel like I'd be pretty terrible at playing Doomsday is why I asked for a Doomsday sub-in.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
I'll scrap up my Oona if you give me a few days to finish typing this stuff up. Between work and other obligations, I don't have nearly as much time as I'd like to, and dedicating it to this thread is my current priority. However, Oona was just a worse version of this deck; it also played the Labman win (Oona can exile my deck) along with Doomsday, it just replaced really good green ramp and removal with Skullclamp, Azami, and Mind over Matter type stuff. Oona was a Blue deck splashing black for sick value, and Tasigur is a UB deck splashing green for sick value.
As far as the opponent's choice, that's honestly the best part of it. If I'm just using it for value, I often care very little what I'm getting; I probably had nothing to do with that mana anyway, and its one less target at a more crucial stage of the game. If an opponent is doing something that needs an answer, I can always talk to one of the other two guys and say "Hey, give me the Arcane Denial and I'll counter that Tooth and Nail!" which is honestly insane and absurd. For the rare situation when the spell benefits everyone at the table except for me (I've got a Prophet, Vorinclex and Tas on board, Wrath of God on the stack), then it feels pretty bad, but I still have ability to go super political and say something like "hey, if you give me back the Venser to stop this Wrath, I'll take that Tempt you're about to cast."
Basically, his ability as a non-infinite is the reason why he is a good control commander; politics the dude! Also consider the mass delve spells, which keep my yard free of trash like Farseek.
Letting the Doomsday resolve if you have a counterspell is super wrong. Its possible to set up piles that don't even cast spells to win, so anybody messing around with that is in for a world of hurt. As far as kill spells and their ilk, I'm not terribly afraid anyway. Doomsday is my late-game finisher, and neither my plan A or B. It comes down when 1) I have enough mana to build an unbeatable pile, 2) I'm almost certain somebody is going to win before I get to untap again and I don't have an answer - which is rare - or 3) I'm completely certain that my opponents are out of the resources needed to stop me. Casting Doomsday on turn 5 with two blue decks untapped is pretty dangerous, but that ain't my thing! I'm actually working on writing the gameplan now, which should help with that.
I think this deck gets fundamentally worse if you cut Doomsday. I'm not the best with it myself, but its a great card for sitting around and goldfishing different piles, because you can set rules like "They have a Voidslime and a Path to Exile, can I win through that?" Anyway. Cutting Doomsday makes this just an infinite mana deck. First of all, Doomsday is your backup Tooth and Nail (probably the best card in EDH imo), because it can set up infinite mana. Second, its your backup Demonic Consultation+Lab Man. Another dumb combo. Also its just Doomsday... its like "pay three mana, cheat." People often talk about how difficult to play the card is, but I really dislike that sentiment. If Doomsday is too difficult to play in a deck, you don't know the deck well enough yet, because all DD is accomplishing is actually letting you stack your perfect top five. Get the magical Christmas land hats! Its real! On top of all this, Tasigur is already a LabMan deck, right? Why would a black LabMan deck not have Doomsday?
The point of that rant is basically this; the best Tasigur deck will, in my opinion, play Doomsday, and that is what I'm discussing. If you want to build a real good one, I'd totally throw it in there! At worst, you get better, right? If you want to build a really similar deck without DD, its probably best to play Mimeo Druid, because it accomplishes a very similar combo in a very similar deck, but doesn't play the card. If Tas is in the mind, my cuts would be everything in the DD section minus Pali and Reanimate, add Mana Reflection and a couple tutors, some more ramp, and then kill/counter spells. Pongify, Counterspell, and so on. Basically pump it with instants to take advantage of being able to pass turn and choose between activating Tasigur or killing stuff.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
Bazaar of Baghdad
Body double
cadaverous bloom
explore
gush
insidious dreams
Lion's eye diamond
skeletal scrying
yawgmoth's will
Is there anything I should add? I own all of these cards except Bazaar. I dont expect it to be easy to acquire, but it will come up. Also possibly Nephalia Drownyard? Both fulfil the same thing in a Doomsday combo; I could go Explore, Bazaar, dump Labman and trash, reanimate, free cantrips. It seems good as a backup predict, and if I have it already on field then I dont even need the explore. Drownyard may be better because of the 3 as well, and being able to mill other people's vampiric tutors, but the not going to hand is meh. Well see.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Cadaverous Bloom + Skeletal Scrying is an infinite combo. Thats a wincon which makes you a threat. i wouldnt play it
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
Thats not really a combo, as I empty my graveyard really quickly, but it is a way to draw an insane number of cards. However, if I cast Stroke for 5 or so, that DOES g infinite with Tas and Cadaverous Bloom (hello bad prosbloom!), which is pretty sick. One of the reasons I want to try the card, though it may just not be good.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
If you're planning on casting Doomsday repeatedly (in the case of Predicting your opponents to death), how do you keep from losing all of your life. Doomsday rounds up, so when you're on 1 life, it will kill you.
Also, how is Cad Bloom infinite with Stroke/Tasigur? Cadaverous Bloom requires that you exile cards to it. You could maybe draw your deck given enough blue mana to see the Stroke and an empty graveyard - exile two cards to return stroke, one to pay for the 2, and then each card beyond that draws you two cards, at hte cost of U for each iteration.
Let's assume you start with 6 + Stroke. Spend U, draw 10 cards. Exile two to return stroke. Exile 8 cards, spend U, draw 14. Exile 2 to return stroke. Exile 12 cards, spend U, draw 22. Exile 2 to return stroke. Exile 20 cards, spend U, draw 40. So for UUUU you went from 6 cards to 40 (and probably can't go much deeper given that you've gone through some 90 cards of your deck). I guess you probably win from that point.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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Haha. Avvina plays in our meta, and one of our inside jokes is that any mild synergy is deemed an infinite combo, and therefore either banned or it makes you too threatening and people will kill you. My comment was in jest. "That's an infinite combo" is slang for "that's a cute synergy."
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
More or less this. The notable feature here is that, even if I have no other cards in my graveyard, I could always flip something that ISN'T drawing me 12000 cards which is likely what I'll be getting. Tasigur's ability should be played, in my opinion, as card advantage OR an outlet for infinite mana, and not really anything else. Its just another way to mill myself.
As for Doomsday, I generally can't keep doing it forever, which I now see. I clearly haven't played with the card enough, because I never realized that it constantly is rounding up, which would in fact kill me. At best that combo can be bluffed to maybe steal a win against a bad playgroup or an SCG pod, but that's not exactly sporting. It should probably stick with just stroke-ing the table.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
Add a Greater good for massive draws
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Yeah, I knew I was missing something. I very much wanted to test Psychatog.
As far as greater good, I don't actually have all that much to do with it. Its really good with my commander (thanks to Delve, I can cast him for one less every time I sac him to GG, so it could easily become B: Draw four Discard three), and would work well with a biggish 'tog, but outside of those guys it doesn't actually do a whole lot for me. I will be testing it, but it did almost nothing in my earliest drafts of the deck.
Who knows, it is my favorite green card!
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Sure, you can counter their kill spell. However, eventually your meta will start to know to hold on to their removal and counters. Idk, it just seems way too all-in.
It is faily all in, but this isn't a "how fast can I cast Doomsday" deck. The same argument can be used for Tooth and Nail; why don't people just hold removal for it? Its because my competitive playgroup is hilarious. We have razz's Jarad deck, which is a threat to win every turn of the game from 3 on, a really dirty Momir Vig, Nin Artifact/Control (urgh this deck is getting mean), and a rotating door for this last slot. Basically, every deck can win our stabilize before I usually want to be casting Doomsday. One card wins are not that much of a threat, comparitively.
Also worth noting that the other place I intend to use this is grinding SCG pods, where Doomsday is notoriously good.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Greater Good - It gets me +1 card with my general, and makes the next time I cast him cost one colorless less (delve away the Commander's Tax +1), and eventually becomes B: Loot 3 Draw One - which is absurd - but I don't know what else it does me. My only big ways to draw off it are like Palinchron, Deadeye Navigator, and Vorinclex. I'll probably test this with Psychatog when I do, and maybe a couple other fatties (RSD? I dunno).
Gush - Its a free cantrip for Doomsday, what can I say. The double island is really hard, so I don't have too much hope, but maybe if I make my fetches tutor with it in mind it will be better. My Doomsday is a lategame combo, after all.
Insidious Dreams - Its a second way to set up the combo. I don't know if I need the redundancy, but it never hurts.
Nephalia Drownyard - Bazaar 2.0. I like redundancy. This may be better for Doomsday stuff because it gets deeper in my deck. Plus, it randomly dicks over opposing topdeck manipulation!
Psychatog - He eats stuff out of my yard, lets me fill it for big delve spells, and is a gigantic beater. Doesn't do anything special, but it may be that the weird utility + beating face is enough to get there some games.
Thought Scour - Good with Doomsday, redundant, dicks over topdecks! Just like Drownyard except not a land.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Consider playing Magus of the Bazaar.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
I can see myself playing Magus, but I'm not a huge fan of it. Its worse than Bazaar because it doesn't work with Pali stuff, has summoning sickness, and dies to a fierce win. I dunno if I really need the redundancy of that specific effect.
How about testing Tempt with Discovery? It finds me Bojuka Bog, and it finds me Bazaar, both of which are huge. You're the one to see stupid success out of it, so I'll defer to your opinion.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
Check out my competitive Momir Vig Toolbox Combo Deck
Have you considered a Crucible engine or perhaps Life from the Loam engine? It has natural synergy with the deck and you gain the capability to Strip Mine lock people. It adds another dimension to your deck that I think would be pretty good. Allowing yourself to still play lands even when activating Tasigur's ability over the course of the game would be useful in the longer games, but it sounds like your meta doesn't have long games.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager