Yes and no. It's low enough CMC that the synergy is reasonable beyond winning. If you don't have combos in mind with it, okay it's pretty much just win-more. Though it does work with a 3-mana producer, Gobln Bombardment, and Nim Deathmantle.
Final round of changes before I test the deck again tomorrow. Made room for Crystal Ball and Crucible of Worlds, as well as two more fetchlands and another wheel.
Yes and no. It's low enough CMC that the synergy is reasonable beyond winning. If you don't have combos in mind with it, okay it's pretty much just win-more. Though it does work with a 3-mana producer, Gobln Bombardment, and Nim Deathmantle.
Or even just Genesis Chamber. I'm going to leave Gary in for the time being.
Nice list Cryogen, I just decided to build Grenzo myself. Have you had a chance to start playing with the Doomsday combo yet? Just wondering how much luck you're having with it. Seems like if you're interrupted, it's pretty much game over, but I could be wrong.
Not yet. Last Tuesday was the first time I played it. I'll try it again with the Doomsday combo and see what happens. It is absolutely an all-in combo but that is what I want to try out. Another set of cards I want to find room for is Crystal Ball and Darksteel Pendant. I may remove Gary for Ball, since I don't anticipate getting a high devotion.
I really like both ball and pendant here. Ball is probably superior, but I have an attachment to Darksteel Pendant that would probably nudge me in that direction.
I'm very interested to see how Doomsday works for you, I'm also testing it just to see how often it might backfire and if the positives outweigh the negatives.
I prefer Crystal Ball to Darksteel Pendant because it digs deeper and scrys 2. I have a feeling that Doomsday will be cut eventually, especially if it is successful. I don't really have an interest in boring infinite combos like that which tutor up an instawin. The first time and with a card like that will be fine, but it's nothing I think I'll continue to do.
I prefer Crystal Ball to Darksteel Pendant because it digs deeper and scrys 2. I have a feeling that Doomsday will be cut eventually, especially if it is successful. I don't really have an interest in boring infinite combos like that which tutor up an instawin. The first time and with a card like that will be fine, but it's nothing I think I'll continue to do.
Glad to hear that, one card insta-win combos don't much entertain me either.
Yeah it was pretty fun. I am still looking at Grey Merchant and Nykthos as potential cuts, but no changes I absolutely want just yet. Doomsday possibly.
Beetleback was in but I cut him when I was adding the Priests. I think the double red and fact that he only makes to tokens was the problem. I want to try and make the creatures work with either Altar and Deathmantle whenever possible. I also have to worry about fear and intimidate, so that's why the other two token producers are still in.
Yeah it was pretty fun. I am still looking at Grey Merchant and Nykthos as potential cuts, but no changes I absolutely want just yet. Doomsday possibly.
Beetleback was in but I cut him when I was adding the Priests. I think the double red and fact that he only makes to tokens was the problem. I want to try and make the creatures work with either Altar and Deathmantle whenever possible. I also have to worry about fear and intimidate, so that's why the other two token producers are still in.
Those two cuts make sense, as well as Doomsday if you're not interested in that combo. As for Beetleback Chief, you're right in that all he does is put the tokens into play, where all our other token generators have some other ability we can use (i.e. Marsh Flitter, Siege-Gang Commander, etc.) or, like Krenko, make so many tokens that they can win games on their own.
Beetleback will probably be one of the first creatures to come back in, because with Ashnod/Nim it can create infinite dudes, which makes Chieftain an enabler as well.
The two-cmc mana rocks (Fire Diamond, etc.) look a little out of place here since you haven't quite exhausted the two-cmc mana dorks in these colors; there's still Plague Myr, Manakin, and Millikin. Speaking of which, with only 14 basic lands do you ever have trouble getting Star Compass to make mana at all? Similar to Heartstone, Carnival of Souls can help you double up on Grenzo activations. It is waaaaay jankier, but I've always wanted that card to be good...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
Well the rocks tap for colored so I think they're better than the two scarecrows. About the only time the creatures are better is if I hit them off Grenzo. I saw Carnival and don't really know how I could abuse it. Blood Artist + Seer + Digger + any ETB dude which makes three creatures would work. I'd have to find a way to work around the life loss.
Well the rocks tap for colored so I think they're better than the two scarecrows. About the only time the creatures are better is if I hit them off Grenzo. I saw Carnival and don't really know how I could abuse it. Blood Artist + Seer + Digger + any ETB dude which makes three creatures would work. I'd have to find a way to work around the life loss.
The life loss is a major problem, especially with how many creatures we can get into play at once... I'd worry that while Carnival of Souls might help us "get there" it would prevent us from finishing the game.
The life loss is a major problem, especially with how many creatures we can get into play at once... I'd worry that while Carnival of Souls might help us "get there" it would prevent us from finishing the game.
Yeah, it's like Doomsday in the sense that if all the pieces are in place you're going to win with it, but there is a high risk attached.
The life loss is a major problem, especially with how many creatures we can get into play at once... I'd worry that while Carnival of Souls might help us "get there" it would prevent us from finishing the game.
Yeah, it's like Doomsday in the sense that if all the pieces are in place you're going to win with it, but there is a high risk attached.
With all the artifacts we run, and I assume some builds are higher, while some are lower, is it worth testing Metalworker?
Love the doomsday idea. It's something I've been playing around with in Legacy and looks like I can get a t3 kill off it. Interesting idea in EDH, lots of options for the different stacks. If you're going to do Doomsday you can do some fun other wincon ideas like Hexmage + Dark Depths, stuff that's got some flair if you don't wanna kiki combo out.
Also you should think about running Mana Echoes for free Grenzo activations
With all the artifacts we run, and I assume some builds are higher, while some are lower, is it worth testing Metalworker?
It could be. I didn't really think about it but there are benefits. I like my mana myr because they are turn two rocks and being artifact creatures there's a lot of synergy with the rest of the deck. Metalworker falls into that category as well, and I'm running 21 rocks in the deck. Even holding back just one of them is a Grenzo activation. Definitely food for thought.
Love the doomsday idea. It's something I've been playing around with in Legacy and looks like I can get a t3 kill off it. Interesting idea in EDH, lots of options for the different stacks. If you're going to do Doomsday you can do some fun other wincon ideas like Hexmage + Dark Depths, stuff that's got some flair if you don't wanna kiki combo out.
Also you should think about running Mana Echoes for free Grenzo activations
Well I don't actually own Dark Depths, but ideally the only thing that will make me want to leave Doomsday in the deck is having multiple different wincons. I don't want to turn it into a KikiScript tutor, even if it does it with style.
Yeah I don't know how I overlooked Mana Echoes. I don't have one but I need an excuse to order a Street Wraith (gonna do a U/B Doomsday combo with Lab Maniac), so I'll nab an Echoes as well. It will certainly be a good Altar backup for the infinite combos.
Oh yeah, Autocrat will be a must include once I find a copy. I like Grim Haruspex better than Harvester due to the lower casting cost and being easier to cheat with Grenzo. Mindslicer I don't care for simply because I had problems if I was topdecking and didn't have Skullclamp out. The others are decent cards but nothing spectacular. I do like Disciple of Bolas though, even if it will only draw a couple of cards most times.
So far in testing have you had any issues with drawing cards like Krenko or Goblin Chieftain and not hitting our token makers? I have some reservations on a partially tribal deck like this that without the right draws doesn't function as well. Thoughts?
So far in testing have you had any issues with drawing cards like Krenko or Goblin Chieftain and not hitting our token makers? I have some reservations on a partially tribal deck like this that without the right draws doesn't function as well. Thoughts?
I haven't gotten either of those cards yet. I think I've played a total of 8 games so far. The farther away I go from goblin tokens the less I think Chieftain is a good card. He is essentially only in there to grant haste to Krenko and potentially a large swing late game. I think Krenko will still be worth keeping because I can still produce a decent number of tokens off him, and as long as I have Lightning Greaves in play he can combo as well.
That's not a bad idea. I saw that card but didn't immediately see a way to abuse the crafter. Prospector will get added as soon as I find one since it can be a worse phyrexian altar.
That's not a bad idea. I saw that card but didn't immediately see a way to abuse the crafter. Prospector will get added as soon as I find one since it can be a worse phyrexian altar.
I like those suggestions as well, and with those additions, Goblin Chieftain becomes a better include. If you do make it more Goblin-centric (instead of less), Wort, Boggart Auntie may be worth considering.
EDIT
This may be a silly question, but does Scrap Mastery have any place here?
Or even just Genesis Chamber. I'm going to leave Gary in for the time being.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I really like both ball and pendant here. Ball is probably superior, but I have an attachment to Darksteel Pendant that would probably nudge me in that direction.
I'm very interested to see how Doomsday works for you, I'm also testing it just to see how often it might backfire and if the positives outweigh the negatives.
Keep up the good work!
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Glad to hear that, one card insta-win combos don't much entertain me either.
And yes, Crystal Ball is the superior choice.
Turn 1: land
Turn 2: land, myr
Turn 3: nim deathmantle, goblin bombardment
Turn 4: ashnods altar
Turn 5: goblin flitter, win.
Second game was longer and I had to play through numerous counterspells and prophet, but nim, ashnod, and redcap won it.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Hmm, seems like good results. Did you enjoying piloting the deck? Were there any changes you would make after these two games?
Also, any love for Beetleback Chief here?
Yeah it was pretty fun. I am still looking at Grey Merchant and Nykthos as potential cuts, but no changes I absolutely want just yet. Doomsday possibly.
Beetleback was in but I cut him when I was adding the Priests. I think the double red and fact that he only makes to tokens was the problem. I want to try and make the creatures work with either Altar and Deathmantle whenever possible. I also have to worry about fear and intimidate, so that's why the other two token producers are still in.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Those two cuts make sense, as well as Doomsday if you're not interested in that combo. As for Beetleback Chief, you're right in that all he does is put the tokens into play, where all our other token generators have some other ability we can use (i.e. Marsh Flitter, Siege-Gang Commander, etc.) or, like Krenko, make so many tokens that they can win games on their own.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
The life loss is a major problem, especially with how many creatures we can get into play at once... I'd worry that while Carnival of Souls might help us "get there" it would prevent us from finishing the game.
Yeah, it's like Doomsday in the sense that if all the pieces are in place you're going to win with it, but there is a high risk attached.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
With all the artifacts we run, and I assume some builds are higher, while some are lower, is it worth testing Metalworker?
Also you should think about running Mana Echoes for free Grenzo activations
Well I don't actually own Dark Depths, but ideally the only thing that will make me want to leave Doomsday in the deck is having multiple different wincons. I don't want to turn it into a KikiScript tutor, even if it does it with style.
Yeah I don't know how I overlooked Mana Echoes. I don't have one but I need an excuse to order a Street Wraith (gonna do a U/B Doomsday combo with Lab Maniac), so I'll nab an Echoes as well. It will certainly be a good Altar backup for the infinite combos.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Deck looks totally fun btw!
Oh yeah, Autocrat will be a must include once I find a copy. I like Grim Haruspex better than Harvester due to the lower casting cost and being easier to cheat with Grenzo. Mindslicer I don't care for simply because I had problems if I was topdecking and didn't have Skullclamp out. The others are decent cards but nothing spectacular. I do like Disciple of Bolas though, even if it will only draw a couple of cards most times.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I haven't gotten either of those cards yet. I think I've played a total of 8 games so far. The farther away I go from goblin tokens the less I think Chieftain is a good card. He is essentially only in there to grant haste to Krenko and potentially a large swing late game. I think Krenko will still be worth keeping because I can still produce a decent number of tokens off him, and as long as I have Lightning Greaves in play he can combo as well.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
In search of a foil french Dromar, the Banisher, pm me if you have one you want to part with, also foil Stratadon's.
That's not a bad idea. I saw that card but didn't immediately see a way to abuse the crafter. Prospector will get added as soon as I find one since it can be a worse phyrexian altar.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I like those suggestions as well, and with those additions, Goblin Chieftain becomes a better include. If you do make it more Goblin-centric (instead of less), Wort, Boggart Auntie may be worth considering.
EDIT
This may be a silly question, but does Scrap Mastery have any place here?