It probably also wins via concession fairly frequently, that's something I've been thinking about though since I have people I play with who almost never concede so I need real win conditions for my list.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
This deck has yet to actually have to beat someone to death, it always goes to concession. Sometimes with a strip lock. But yeah no other wincons. Where's the fun in killing someone quickly?
@crazy monkey
Well if you've got all your library in your grave/hand it shouldn't be that hard to get back removal every turn. If you have seenborn/prophet then you have a million activations, and if it's dead then you just use VS to get it back and not deck yourself. I'm still considering high market or phyrexian tower as a sac outlet to protect Tasigur, although ideally it shouldn't be necessary if you're playing correctly politically.
Well I managed to get in a few games with my new deck list over the weekend and here are some thoughts I've had.
1) Mana - The activation cost on Tasigur can be tough at 4 mana if you don't have either Seedborn or Prophet in play. I think I might add Burgeoning and a larger land base (maybe 45ish) as a way to hit my lands more often. Plus that should help with my win con using Strata Scythe + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
2) Inkmoth Nexus needs more support. Not being able to run Kessig Wolf Run makes it quite a bit more difficult to make Inkmoth the beast I want it to be. Adding more lands should help, but I need to think of some other ways to pump it up. Right now Hatred is seeming better and better.
3) Polymorphist's Jest was too situational. It was great at stopping a huge alpha strike, but otherwise lackluster. It will get cut for lands.
4) Bow of Nylea is gonna get cut for some lands as well. It was great before I switched to this land win condition but now I cant see myself decking out before either killing the board or being killed myself.
5) When I bump my lands up to 45-50 I feel its safe to run Ad Nauseam and Dark Confidant(if i can afford one). These should get me the cards i need to just have an explosive turn.
6) Mind Twist has a hilarious interaction, if you twist one persons hand you can ask them for it back since you will not be hitting them with it a second time. Of course this depends on how mad they are at you for twisting their had away in the first place.
I'm also considering getting my hands on a Dark Depths as an additional land to win with
I find them useful in my meta of different playgroups. I'll address a couple of them.
Ravenous Trap: It's easy to meet the condition for making it free. It will be a useful tool that you can have returned via Tas for repeated use.
Gaze of Granite: It gets rid of 'walkers. Not many people in my usual meta run walkers but when someone shows up with a superfriends list I like to have more than one answer. It's comparable to Deed in cost but it's all up-front instead of set it and forget it like deed.
Harmonic Convergence: This one is a meta slot against enchantress decks that are popping up. I like the idea of board-wiping them and V-Wealthing it all away from them. It also deals with Gods, Enchanted Evening Combos (Aura Thief or Opalescence) and Karmic Justice blowouts.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
So I played a game with a very similar list to yours Dirk.
It felt very controlling,and very stong.
First thing I tutored for was prophet of kruphix and that was all it took to take complete control of the table.
Granted I purposely held my removal until someone attacked me pretty much every time. It didn't take too long for them to figure out that other people were easier prey. I was activating Tasigur so many times that it was only a matter of time before my opponents missed an interaction and gave my cards I wanted.
My favorite part was killing my own prophet in response to a swords to plowshares, terminus, and path to exile all in one game! Vorath's stronghold made my engine nearly impossible to deal with.
Kakusho has worked out pretty well as a backup wincon that also helps keep me alive throughout the game. Definitely a big player in my strategy. It didn't win me the game, but it gained around 40 health to keep me in it.
Well I managed to get in a few games with my new deck list over the weekend and here are some thoughts I've had.
1) Mana - The activation cost on Tasigur can be tough at 4 mana if you don't have either Seedborn or Prophet in play. I think I might add Burgeoning and a larger land base (maybe 45ish) as a way to hit my lands more often. Plus that should help with my win con using Strata Scythe + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Totally doesn't work - Urborg changes types, not names.
Fellow Tasigur players, there is a menace among us that has benefited immensely from the rules change, one that laughs at normal removal, and even wants to be targeted by it in order to gain even more advantage.
In order to counter the new meta of untuckable generals, I propose one card to defeat the RUG threat, and another for any other major opponent that appears in your meta:
They can both easily be transmuted for with cmc 2/3 cards, one prevents Wanderer from reaching the command zone, and the other shuts down any number of annoyances which dare plague the glorious Sultai Empire. Now, Declaration of Naught might cause a lot of anger and bring aggression to you, but, it easily halts repeated castings of generals which need to stay off the board where otherwise they would dominate the table.
I hope you all think hard about these cards during these dark times and whether or not they will strengthen your arcane defenses against the building forces against us.
Fellow Tasigur players, there is a menace among us that has benefited immensely from the rules change, one that laughs at normal removal, and even wants to be targeted by it in order to gain even more advantage.
In order to counter the new meta of untuckable generals, I propose one card to defeat the RUG threat, and another for any other major opponent that appears in your meta:
They can both easily be transmuted for with cmc 2/3 cards, one prevents Wanderer from reaching the command zone, and the other shuts down any number of annoyances which dare plague the glorious Sultai Empire. Now, Declaration of Naught might cause a lot of anger and bring aggression to you, but, it easily halts repeated castings of generals which need to stay off the board where otherwise they would dominate the table.
I hope you all think hard about these cards during these dark times and whether or not they will strengthen your arcane defenses against the building forces against us.
Yeah, there's definitely a few changes I'd make to this decklist now that tuck is no longer a thing. Song of the Dryads will probably make the cut, I'm not as sold on declaration of naught, though. I'd probably rather run lignify, if anything.
Yeah, ugh, I hate maelstrom wanderer. Him and Prossh. If I counter your commander, you shouldn't still get ridiculous value out of it.
I haven't played this deck for a few months, though, I went from tasigur to nahiri, DL ojutai, aurelia, and now nin, and I'm thinking of brewing varolz. The deckbuilding never stops, although I may rebuild tasigur again some day, he's definitely pretty cool.
You are far more active in deckbuilding and taking them apart than I; fun ones like this I tend to keep together for months on end, and the previous incarnation of it, Wydwen, the Biting Gale, used to be my oldest deck at at least 3 years. I'm not sure about Lignify, as it leaves it a creature that is able to die to a random wrath, but it looks worth trying. As for DoN, I'd like to have a tool that keeps something like Sigarda, Rafiq, Uril, etc... off the board with minimal effort and card loss, so I'm going to give it a shot.
As for other decks, put together Dragonlord Silumgar and I am thinking about a Nicol Bolas Coinflip deck. Soon, all shall fear the might of Chance Encounter, Game of Chaos, and Krark's Thumb copies with a Mirror Gallery on the board. BWAHAHAHA!
I like how this thread is holistic in its ideas, while also discussing the specifics of certain card choices. I recently obtained a copy of Tasigur from a friend of mine, and I'm probably going to use the idea of your deck as a skeleton. I will most likely reduce the curve a little, since my friends typically like fast-paced strategies. Maybe during my long (dark) teatime, I will try to throw something together.
(I do quite like the idea of dig through time, but I am a bit worried about running treasure cruise, due to it being a big sorcery that doesn't have immediate impact.)
Last night I played my first game with this list, and the experience provoked some questions that I can't answer. If anyone who has played this deck can weigh in, I'd appreciate it.
1. Has anyone ever suspected or outright seen through your motives in the "everyone's ally" tactic? More importantly, what do you do when someone does figure you out? In the game I played, one person definitely realized I was trying to manipulate the table, whereas a second player definitely did not understand, so I ended up handing my graveyard to the oblivious player every time. I guess what I'm really asking for is more detail on how to play this deck politically, because I don't think I did a very good job last night. Also, how would you approach games against opponents who have already played against this deck?
2. This question might eclipse the scope of this thread and border on the philosophy of EDH as a whole, but what sort of reception has this deck had by your opponents? I thought the people in my game were salty by the amount of counterspells I recurred...until I started on the land destruction. I thought that any ending to a two-hour game would be welcome, but two out of three people were upset by the outcome (the oblivious player remained oblivious). I don't know, am I splitting hairs, here? Or is the social problem not this deck, but the people I played against? Maybe it's just my personality.
Personally, I found that the best way to play the deck was this:
Do not make yourself out to be their friend. Make it obvious that you are not one to be provoked.
This can be accomplished by doing things like using instant removal only when attacked, or not countering things that don't effect you.
Your opponents will see what you get with your general, you can use that to your advantage as a rattlesnake.
Sleeved up and played a similar list to this yesterday after I found this. So much fun. I'm definitely known in my group to be the one who plays politics all the time to compensate for the lack of so many good (expensive) cards. After building several political decks lead by Seizan, Perverter of Truth, Nin the pain artist, ashling, the pilgrim, and even nekusar, this by far seems like the most resilient and consistent one I've played.
Its great to have 2 different modes of play:
1)'just don't f*ck with me and everything will be cool!' rattlesnaking / answers where you just watch the rest of the table battle amongst themselves or
2)'Im in charge here just accept it!' proactive game management, with favor for a favor plays + "Im doing this because its best for all of us'.
At one point I was basically handing my graveyard to the one player with the weakest deck whenever he was in trouble and said "whatever you give me I will play right now.' keeping him alive against the other two players who were playing aggressive dropping dudes and equipment on the battlefield, leaving those 2 basically resigned to taking each others life down. Then when everyone had or were close to single digit life totals, the favors stopped. Soon there was just one other player left. 2 swings with tasigur and a dimir keyrune and I walked away with the victory. kudos on this deck. Will be playing this one for a long time!!!!
I'm extremely fond of my Tasigur deck, having been playing a build of it since this thread was made, and I feel like it is just about done (lacking Underground Sea and UG Battle for Zendikar-style dual when one eventually comes out).
Temple of Mystery and Yavimaya Coast are next on the chopping block for the aforementioned lands, and a Mana Drain whenever I can pick one up. I run 43 lands that can tap for mana (without Urborg), 46 total. Realms Uncharted gives this deck a lot of power, being almost a Gifts Ungiven since it can fetch up wincons (Dark Depths), protection (Glacial Chasm and Maze of Ith), or just fix my colors. The heavier amount of fetchable lands than some lists in here (14, eventually 16) makes those fetches work a lot harder with Crucible of Worlds. There's less Delve in here since Tasigur Delves quite a lot on his own and thins out a graveyard hard.
All the wincons are recurrable/reusable without needing Tasigur, with the only limit being they can only affect one person at a time (a conscious decision).
One card that work wonders in this deck I don't see in other lists are Reins of Power which not only acts like a pseudo-Fog but can also blow out other players by making them block for me, or a hasted alpha strike with another person's army.
It definitely doesn't have the draw power of Domantas' deck, going for a longer, grindier game (and also why it doesn't run Forbid, which I replaced with Mystic Confluence). However, Dark Depths and Mindslaver gives it a heavy punch, and the larger amount of basics than other lists here gives a bit more resistance to Blood Moon and Ruination if they manage to get through.
The differences are small between each player in this thread, but that's good too, showing evolutions away from the first build that inspired us to something that fits each player.
There's a lot of budget options available in removal/counterspells a dollar or less, so don't worry about having the most expensive ones, just what you can find on Gatherer that fits your needs, like Negate or Dismiss. I love the Vow cycle in other decks so go nuts with them. I suggest not using Awakening since it enables your opponents as well, and just take the loss of not having Seedborn Muse.
The only couple of cards I'd suggest should be in a deck is Life from the Loam, a huge engine for this deck, and if you don't have many tutors for it (Muddle the Mixture is a good one), other cards with dredge like Stinkweed Imp.
I know the idea is to not have wincons, but considering the use of Reins of Power (by some) and Tasigur himself perhaps this might be more broadly defined as "not having obvious wincons" or having one that is so low to the ground that it doesn't look like one. Crypt Ghast, for example, I would not see as a wincon when it came on the field at first unless I'd seen the deck win with it before. In searching for other things I could sacrifice lands to that might be usable in this deck, I came across Squirrel Wrangler. Seems funny to me.
So I may eventually experiment with having a slot in the deck dedicated to rotating a single wincon card like Ghast or Wrangler or Reins.
Edit: Another budget possibility is Voidmage Husher, though it only stops activated abilities. For possible color fixing, there's Realmwright, though it's a creature.
This card is just so beautiful. 5 mana and sorcery speed makes this card look really bad when you realize that it is a card that tutors all the answers you could ever want.
There was this one game where I filled a player's hand with lots removal and counters and one combo piece. This lead other players being really scared and started relentlessly attacking the head games target. Head games could defend himself because of all the answers. End result was that other players completely forgot me and beat each other up.
You can just make anybody a target. The fact you are tapped out just makes you look less of a target.
Having played it tonight 1-on-1 vs a Kemba deck and getting Constant Mists and Life from the Loam early to save my butt over and over, this deck does indeed not seem to need any wincons. The repeatable removal and ridiculous mana is the wincon. I had so much mana (untapped every turn by Prophet of Kruphix) that once I overloaded Cyclonic Rift on his massive army of creatures with +1/+1 counters on them, I could just keep casting Capsize with buyback 2-3 times each turn. Then just swing with Tasigur or make him unblockable. It took a long time because this guy never concedes, but it worked well.
Not the best card but Eye of Doom has been a fun political play. Letting your opponents pick the threats that need to go keeps some heat off of you even though you are essentially controlling the game. Very rarely will Tasigur or any of your permanents be chosen with the exception of Prophet of Kruphix. Thats usually the only permanent I play that ever draws any hate tbh.
I'm honestly glad Prophet is banned. The combination of untapped mana and flash was way too powerful. Not sure what I'll put in its place, but there's plenty of good cards out there.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
@crazy monkey
Well if you've got all your library in your grave/hand it shouldn't be that hard to get back removal every turn. If you have seenborn/prophet then you have a million activations, and if it's dead then you just use VS to get it back and not deck yourself. I'm still considering high market or phyrexian tower as a sac outlet to protect Tasigur, although ideally it shouldn't be necessary if you're playing correctly politically.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
1) Mana - The activation cost on Tasigur can be tough at 4 mana if you don't have either Seedborn or Prophet in play. I think I might add Burgeoning and a larger land base (maybe 45ish) as a way to hit my lands more often. Plus that should help with my win con using Strata Scythe + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
2) Inkmoth Nexus needs more support. Not being able to run Kessig Wolf Run makes it quite a bit more difficult to make Inkmoth the beast I want it to be. Adding more lands should help, but I need to think of some other ways to pump it up. Right now Hatred is seeming better and better.
3) Polymorphist's Jest was too situational. It was great at stopping a huge alpha strike, but otherwise lackluster. It will get cut for lands.
4) Bow of Nylea is gonna get cut for some lands as well. It was great before I switched to this land win condition but now I cant see myself decking out before either killing the board or being killed myself.
5) When I bump my lands up to 45-50 I feel its safe to run Ad Nauseam and Dark Confidant(if i can afford one). These should get me the cards i need to just have an explosive turn.
6) Mind Twist has a hilarious interaction, if you twist one persons hand you can ask them for it back since you will not be hitting them with it a second time. Of course this depends on how mad they are at you for twisting their had away in the first place.
I'm also considering getting my hands on a Dark Depths as an additional land to win with
I find them useful in my meta of different playgroups. I'll address a couple of them.
Ravenous Trap: It's easy to meet the condition for making it free. It will be a useful tool that you can have returned via Tas for repeated use.
Gaze of Granite: It gets rid of 'walkers. Not many people in my usual meta run walkers but when someone shows up with a superfriends list I like to have more than one answer. It's comparable to Deed in cost but it's all up-front instead of set it and forget it like deed.
Harmonic Convergence: This one is a meta slot against enchantress decks that are popping up. I like the idea of board-wiping them and V-Wealthing it all away from them. It also deals with Gods, Enchanted Evening Combos (Aura Thief or Opalescence) and Karmic Justice blowouts.
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
It felt very controlling,and very stong.
First thing I tutored for was prophet of kruphix and that was all it took to take complete control of the table.
Granted I purposely held my removal until someone attacked me pretty much every time. It didn't take too long for them to figure out that other people were easier prey. I was activating Tasigur so many times that it was only a matter of time before my opponents missed an interaction and gave my cards I wanted.
My favorite part was killing my own prophet in response to a swords to plowshares, terminus, and path to exile all in one game! Vorath's stronghold made my engine nearly impossible to deal with.
Kakusho has worked out pretty well as a backup wincon that also helps keep me alive throughout the game. Definitely a big player in my strategy. It didn't win me the game, but it gained around 40 health to keep me in it.
Totally doesn't work - Urborg changes types, not names.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
I speak of Maelstrom Wanderer.
In order to counter the new meta of untuckable generals, I propose one card to defeat the RUG threat, and another for any other major opponent that appears in your meta:
They can both easily be transmuted for with cmc 2/3 cards, one prevents Wanderer from reaching the command zone, and the other shuts down any number of annoyances which dare plague the glorious Sultai Empire. Now, Declaration of Naught might cause a lot of anger and bring aggression to you, but, it easily halts repeated castings of generals which need to stay off the board where otherwise they would dominate the table.
I hope you all think hard about these cards during these dark times and whether or not they will strengthen your arcane defenses against the building forces against us.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Yeah, ugh, I hate maelstrom wanderer. Him and Prossh. If I counter your commander, you shouldn't still get ridiculous value out of it.
I haven't played this deck for a few months, though, I went from tasigur to nahiri, DL ojutai, aurelia, and now nin, and I'm thinking of brewing varolz. The deckbuilding never stops, although I may rebuild tasigur again some day, he's definitely pretty cool.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
As for other decks, put together Dragonlord Silumgar and I am thinking about a Nicol Bolas Coinflip deck. Soon, all shall fear the might of Chance Encounter, Game of Chaos, and Krark's Thumb copies with a Mirror Gallery on the board. BWAHAHAHA!
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
I like how this thread is holistic in its ideas, while also discussing the specifics of certain card choices. I recently obtained a copy of Tasigur from a friend of mine, and I'm probably going to use the idea of your deck as a skeleton. I will most likely reduce the curve a little, since my friends typically like fast-paced strategies. Maybe during my long (dark) teatime, I will try to throw something together.
(I do quite like the idea of dig through time, but I am a bit worried about running treasure cruise, due to it being a big sorcery that doesn't have immediate impact.)
1. Has anyone ever suspected or outright seen through your motives in the "everyone's ally" tactic? More importantly, what do you do when someone does figure you out? In the game I played, one person definitely realized I was trying to manipulate the table, whereas a second player definitely did not understand, so I ended up handing my graveyard to the oblivious player every time. I guess what I'm really asking for is more detail on how to play this deck politically, because I don't think I did a very good job last night. Also, how would you approach games against opponents who have already played against this deck?
2. This question might eclipse the scope of this thread and border on the philosophy of EDH as a whole, but what sort of reception has this deck had by your opponents? I thought the people in my game were salty by the amount of counterspells I recurred...until I started on the land destruction. I thought that any ending to a two-hour game would be welcome, but two out of three people were upset by the outcome (the oblivious player remained oblivious). I don't know, am I splitting hairs, here? Or is the social problem not this deck, but the people I played against? Maybe it's just my personality.
Do not make yourself out to be their friend. Make it obvious that you are not one to be provoked.
This can be accomplished by doing things like using instant removal only when attacked, or not countering things that don't effect you.
Your opponents will see what you get with your general, you can use that to your advantage as a rattlesnake.
Its great to have 2 different modes of play:
1)'just don't f*ck with me and everything will be cool!' rattlesnaking / answers where you just watch the rest of the table battle amongst themselves or
2)'Im in charge here just accept it!' proactive game management, with favor for a favor plays + "Im doing this because its best for all of us'.
At one point I was basically handing my graveyard to the one player with the weakest deck whenever he was in trouble and said "whatever you give me I will play right now.' keeping him alive against the other two players who were playing aggressive dropping dudes and equipment on the battlefield, leaving those 2 basically resigned to taking each others life down. Then when everyone had or were close to single digit life totals, the favors stopped. Soon there was just one other player left. 2 swings with tasigur and a dimir keyrune and I walked away with the victory. kudos on this deck. Will be playing this one for a long time!!!!
For example, Awakening instead of Seedborn Muse?
Or the Vows of Malice, Wildness, Flight?
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
This is my version of it:
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Other Wincon Cards:
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian Stage
1x Mindslaver
1x Academy Ruins
Non Counterspell Single Target Answers:
1x Pongify
1x Rapid Hybridization
1x Tragic Slip
1x Reality Shift
1x Go for the Throat
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Victim of the Night
1x Putrefy
1x Malestrom Pulse
1x Wipe Away
1x Dismember
1x Beast Within
1x Krosan Grip
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Silence the Believers
Counterspells:
1x Pact of Negation
1x Counterspell
1x Dissipate
1x Hinder
1x Spell Crumple
1x Voidslime
1x Rewind
1x Cryptic Command
1x Plasm Capture
1x Force of Will
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Pernicious Deed
Other Answers:
1x Torpor Orb
Self-Protection:
1x Maze of Ith
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Constant Mists
Card Draw:
1x Fact or Fiction
Mana Recursion/Fixing/Acceleration:
1x Sol Ring
1x Training Grounds
1x Burgeoning
1x Exploration
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Life from the Loam
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Prophet of Kruphix
Tutors:
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Intuition
1x Realms Uncharted
1x Mystical Teachings
Multiuse cards:
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Sultai Charm
1x Memory Plunder
1x Reins of Power
1x Mystic Confluence
Fetches and Fetchable Lands:
1x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Sunken Hollow
4x Island
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Barren Moor
Utility Lands:
1x Tolaria West
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Arcane Lighthouse
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Strip Mine
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Reliquary Tower
Other Lands:
1x Command Tower
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Opulent Palace
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Woodland Cemetary
1x Flooded Grove
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Yavimaya Coast
Temple of Mystery and Yavimaya Coast are next on the chopping block for the aforementioned lands, and a Mana Drain whenever I can pick one up. I run 43 lands that can tap for mana (without Urborg), 46 total. Realms Uncharted gives this deck a lot of power, being almost a Gifts Ungiven since it can fetch up wincons (Dark Depths), protection (Glacial Chasm and Maze of Ith), or just fix my colors. The heavier amount of fetchable lands than some lists in here (14, eventually 16) makes those fetches work a lot harder with Crucible of Worlds. There's less Delve in here since Tasigur Delves quite a lot on his own and thins out a graveyard hard.
All the wincons are recurrable/reusable without needing Tasigur, with the only limit being they can only affect one person at a time (a conscious decision).
One card that work wonders in this deck I don't see in other lists are Reins of Power which not only acts like a pseudo-Fog but can also blow out other players by making them block for me, or a hasted alpha strike with another person's army.
It definitely doesn't have the draw power of Domantas' deck, going for a longer, grindier game (and also why it doesn't run Forbid, which I replaced with Mystic Confluence). However, Dark Depths and Mindslaver gives it a heavy punch, and the larger amount of basics than other lists here gives a bit more resistance to Blood Moon and Ruination if they manage to get through.
The differences are small between each player in this thread, but that's good too, showing evolutions away from the first build that inspired us to something that fits each player.
There's a lot of budget options available in removal/counterspells a dollar or less, so don't worry about having the most expensive ones, just what you can find on Gatherer that fits your needs, like Negate or Dismiss. I love the Vow cycle in other decks so go nuts with them. I suggest not using Awakening since it enables your opponents as well, and just take the loss of not having Seedborn Muse.
The only couple of cards I'd suggest should be in a deck is Life from the Loam, a huge engine for this deck, and if you don't have many tutors for it (Muddle the Mixture is a good one), other cards with dredge like Stinkweed Imp.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
So I may eventually experiment with having a slot in the deck dedicated to rotating a single wincon card like Ghast or Wrangler or Reins.
I also came across Chain of Vapor.
Edit: Another budget possibility is Voidmage Husher, though it only stops activated abilities. For possible color fixing, there's Realmwright, though it's a creature.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
This card is just so beautiful. 5 mana and sorcery speed makes this card look really bad when you realize that it is a card that tutors all the answers you could ever want.
There was this one game where I filled a player's hand with lots removal and counters and one combo piece. This lead other players being really scared and started relentlessly attacking the head games target. Head games could defend himself because of all the answers. End result was that other players completely forgot me and beat each other up.
You can just make anybody a target. The fact you are tapped out just makes you look less of a target.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch