It's time for my 3rd mono-colored decklist, and this time it's black turn. I decided on Horobi because I thought he is a pretty awesome general to build around. Not too expansive, good beater, and completely change your opponents' game plans. Also, although the deck is built with really strong synergies around him, I can win without him.
Since I pretty much failed to find any list that I'm happy with, I built one nearly from scratch to fit my own playstyle.
All my decklist are usually comboless (no infinite combo) but based on strong synergies, so this is how I came up with this decklist.
Already considered cards: a lot of them actually... all the other recurrable creatures (like Nether Shadow), other targetting effects (more like Baton of Morale or Nefashu, or even Kuro, Pitlord), all the legal lands that can be played in the deck, other reanimation spells (Chainer, Dementia Master) and many more, but I'm sure you guys can come up with other cards or actual good reasons why I should play these.
Horobi is good at killing creatures, all I need is something that can target. With the lands being uncounterable and colorless, all you need is really a tutor (this deck packs plenty) to start the killing engine. Your opponents will have to adapt to their creatures dying most of the time. Lots of reanimation, since our creatures die too, but we should usually always have more repeatable targetting effects than the opponents (although Staff of Nin and Tower of the Magistrate are cards you will see in other decks). Indestructible will help for sure: Soul of the New Phyrexia (that feels specially printed for this deck, thanks WotC!) and Eldrazi Monument.
Gate to Phyrexia is really underestimated. With more than 10 tutors, it's pretty easy to find something recurrable (Reassembling Skeleton is a real pain to deal with since you reanimate it in response to graveyard removal or destroy it in response to Path to Exile).
I play 39 lands but Cabal Coffers doesn't produce mana early game (so I don't count it just to be sure). Deserted Temple is just really good, it untaps Urborg and other utility lands, with Thawing Glaciers it just ramps, and this deck wants to get access to 10 mana eventually. Horobi is usually enough to stop any agro deck, since all you need is 5 mana to play Horobi and have Touch of Darkness to one-sided-instant-wrath the whole battlefield in response to Horobi being killed (watch how many spells your opponents can waste killing your creatures). Also, Horobi only costs 4 and can be reanimated too!
Also, before playing this deck, some basic ruling knowledge could be needed. If a spell or an ability has a target, that target must still be legal upon resolution. If a spell or an ability with no legal target anymore would resolve, it "fizzles": it is countered.
608.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s moved out of the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process to determine its characteristics. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is illegal, the spell or ability can’t perform any actions on it or make the target perform any actions.
With that said, it means that killing your opponent's creatures with Acorn Catapult doesn't give them a token; otherwise, it's (just!) a second Bitterblossom for 1 mana per turn.
Cauldron of Souls is an amazing card, it's just good by itself and awesome with Horobi. Also, with Mikaeus... well, it's even better than with Horobi. This is a reason why I'm not playing any infinite sac fodder (Ashnod's Altar for example) since I don't want infinite combos in the deck (without any sac engine, Mikaeus and Cauldron don't go infinite, and even then, Cauldron needs to tap for its activation). Contamination would definitely be really strong in this deck, but I don't want to be "that guy", this is the kind of card that completely kills the purpose of EDH I think. This deck is casual. Strong synergies but still casual. Kormus Bell is another completely stupid card with Horobi, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Touch of Darkness (or Cauldron). There are definitely enough tutors in this deck to make all these lockdown/combo a really viable strategy to win, and if your meta is fine with these, I would encourage you to play them.
How does this deeck win? Mostly by turning creatures sideway. And not always our own creatures. With Mindslicer being a 4/3 and the amount of reanimation spells I play, be prepared to see your opponents worry a lot when they see that Mindslicer is a 10-turn clock by itself! Just kill it with Horobi if needed; no need for sac outlets in this deck, with all the targetting and Horobi, we got our own new sac mechanic. Exsanguinate is a strong win card too, with Liliana's emblem or Coffers it usually gets there. Karn+Liquimetal can shoot down a land every turn, and Karn with Horobi can shoot down any artifact every turn if you can target multiple creatures. Also, attacking with your own artifact is sometimes the right play too! Stealing creatures is also a win thanks to all the graveyard reanimation package.
I would be happy to see if anyone is interested in playing this general but I think it's one of the most weird mono-black generals. I like weird decks, I play Norin and Ixidor (see my sig), I like when I can screw up with my opponents' decks and change how they play the game. Just get them out of their comfort zone, that's what it is! And most EDH decks play a many creatures. EDH is so creature-based that you actually have a general always available in your command zone.
I'm waiting for your suggestions and I hope you will enjoy this deck as much as I do!
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Great build dnLL! If you build this deck recently then I was probably building mine at exactly the same time. I made many of the same choices that you did, especially the Horobi targetting spells.
I think the approach you took is extremely strong and will probably win you a lot of games as is. I think the creature based decks that are going to give Horobi even the slightest problem would be indestructible or Hexproof type decks like Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Uril, the Miststalker, Thrun, the Last Troll, etc. Heavy artifact decks might be a problem too. For this reason I found a slot for Grave Pact. To help with the artifact decks, I have both Kill Switch and Karn, Silver Golem to animate their artifacts and kill them with Horobi. I also think Unspeakable Symbol is a powerhouse and I would replace Oasis with it.
How do you see this deck playing out against control type decks? That's my only concern for my Horobi. I have the same four little reanimators (BS Champion, Bloodghast, NetherTraitor, reass Skeleton). It's kind of a crime to not see skullclamp in there with them. I know you can't equip them with Horobi on the field but just equip them before he comes out...
The only problem with Grave Pact is that it's mostly a dead draw against other decks. I play Arcane Lighthouse, Toxic Deluge and Mutilate. With roughly 10 tutors in the deck, that should be enough to kill Avacyn and Thrun. If those cards are played as a general, that's a different story and then yes, I would probably pack more hate against those, but they're not played as Commanders in my meta.
Uril... well, Horobi usually comes the same turn, and they pretty much need to deal with it, or all those beautiful enchantments are pretty useless if you can't target your own Uril.
Unspeakable Symbol has been considered but for multiplayer, the effect is just too expansive. 3 life point is huge. Kokusho can help but with Erebos and Reanimate, life can go down pretty quickly already. I didn't include Chainer for the same reasons. Against some specific deck, Horobi will always be a target. Altough we can defend ourselves fine most of the time, I tend to avoid losing too much life. I agree that a permanent that can target multiple times per turn would be better than Oasis though.
Skullclamp should probably be included despite Horobi. And with Bitterblossom and Eldrazi Monument, this card is just too powerful. I will try to find place for it.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Ya, I hear you on how Unspeakable Symbol can be painful. I'm running a Pestilence package (both Pestilence and Withering Wisps) as an alternate win-con against Pillow-Fort decks. This means I need a lot more life gain so I'm runningCrypt Ghast, Thrull Parasite (synergy w/ horobi too), Sangromancer (feed off Horobi's kills), Whip of Erebos (double duty with reanimate), Gray Merchant of Asphodel, [Exquisite Blood] (breaks symmetry with Pestilence), and Venser's Journal (don't really like this one but thought I'd give it a try) along with Koko and Exsanguinate. With all that life gain I don't mind drawing Symbol and having it as instant speed removal or pump on my own creatures.
A couple last thoughts: I like Mimic Vat over something like Coffin Queen; you can catch Horobi in the Vat and use him only when you need him on your turn once you have your target lands active. Also, Endless Whispers is total fun in my build - Horobi always stays in play so you can just clear the field with your lands or cauldron and swing with your beaters. It's redundant for you because you have all that reanimation but I love playing it.
I tried building around Endless Whispers, playing cards like Phage too. I really tried. But I wasn't able to finish the decklist. Because I didn't want my opponents to get Kokusho, Sheoldred, Mikaeus, Clique or even just Hex Parasite. The day I decided to not play Endless Whispers, I was able to finish this decklist. It's really a double-edged sword. I love the idea, and I really tried. That was my main starting idea. But I had to go back to the drawing board because it's really hard to play around it.
Mimic Vat is one of the best token generator in the deck. Coffin Queen could probably still go out since it has summoning sickness and it's easy to target. Sheoldred is probably better overall when I want to get more value from my Reanimate. Or maybe Chainer if I don't care about life loss.
I really need to find room for Skullclamp, but that's about it right now. I have some problems with my mana curve, it goes like that right now:
1-cmc: 8
2-cmc: 14
3-cmc: 11
4-cmc: 8
5-cmc: 7
6-cmc: 9 (including Beseech the Queen)
7-cmc: 2
8-cmc: 1
Even if I'm not counting Beseech as a 6-drop (because it's definitely more a 3 or 4-drop), my 6-cmc spells are still way too heavy. Skullclamp has a similar role to Harvester of Souls. I don't really see myself removing Geth, Ink-Eyes, Kokusho, Mikaeus, Nirkana, Soul of New Phyrexia or Staff of Nin. Actually, since I would still have too many 6-drops, I could remove Nirkana Revenant, since Crypt Ghast is better. But Nirkana as a double-purpose as a beater/mana-sink. I probably don't need both though.
I would like to play more self-reanimating creatures too, but Nether Shadow, Ichorid, Nim Devourer and all the others have pretty big drawbacks compared to the landfall of Bloodghast or raid on Bloodsoaked Champion. Still, that's 9 cards that are a recurrable source of creatures (if you look at my decklist by function). Should be enough to justify Eldrazi Monument, Gate to Phyrexia and Skullclamp. I'm probably just greedy.
I personally don't think that Pestilence effects (or Crypt Rats, since you can reanimate that one) are that much needed. I think that Horobi, paired with Arcane Lighthouse and a few really good boardwipes like Toxic Deluge and Mutilate, should definitely be enough with 10 tutors.
Maybe I need Elixir of Immortality or Yawgmoth's Will to get a second use of some sorceries/instants. Or Xiao-Dun (or whatever the expansive black legend P3K is called).
If you have time, post your list, I might have a better idea of what you are doing exactly with the deck. So far, it looks like you are playing a few more removal spells that I didn't find necessary in my playtesting, but I will have more time to play some more games during my Christmas vacations to really figure this out.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
So right now I'm thinking about removing Nirkana, Harvester and Coffin Queen.
Skull clamp takes a spot but there are 2 spots left. I would like to add a card that can target multiple times per turn but could be useful without Horobi. Not sure about the last spot but I don't think Nirkana or Harvester are really needed.
Right now the best repeatable effect I found is Baton of Morale, which is... awkward. Banding isn't bad with tokens but 2 mana for banding is bad. Also, what about Carrionette? Really weird card and awkwardly written too, but the way it works with Horobi makes it destroying multiple creatures for 4 mana every time. Since the exile clause is on resolution and not as a cost, it gets countered if the creature is destroyed by its own trigger added with Horobi. And if Horobi isn't here... well, it still exiles a creature if my opponent tapped out. If he has 2 mana available, I can pay 8 (yes, it's mana-intensive).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
+ Staff of Domination (3 mana to kill a creature with Horobi + 4 for each other iteration, it's never a bad topdeck since it gives you 1 life for each 2+3 mana you pay and 1 card for each 5+6 mana you pay)
+ Skullclamp (just so good)
+ Scuttlemutt (better utility than Commander's Sphere)
+ Staff of Nin (does it need an explanation?)
So still 2 spots left. I consider the Staff has an upgrade to Oasis for now. Since I removed a mana-producing land, I think Nykthos could take that spot just fine, it's really easy to get value out of it and it's one more target for Deserted Temple.
The only thing I'm missing is recursion for non-creature and non-artifact (Geth) spells. I don't think there is any real alternative to Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and at $100, I think it's well worth it.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I totally LOVE the deck so far, I played like ~ 12 hours in the last few days with it and it's been so fun. Of all my commander decks, it's one of the most funny one I played.
My opponents just don't really know what to do, when they waste their spells on Horobi, I just cast it again and the fun starts over. Eldrazi Monument is really good, also with Cauldron of Souls on the battlefield at the same time, you can use the Cauldron to give persist to one of your indestructible creature (I'm assuming Horobi is here, so that could be Horobi) and then sac that creature to the Monument just to get it back because it did gain persist (it's good with Rune-Scarred Demon and Kokusho).
One another cool interaction was Mindslicer. Let's assume a turn 1 Skullclamp, turn 2 Coldsteel Heart and turn 3 Mindslicer. What's the best you could ever play on turn 4? Couple of possibilities... equip Clamp to Mindslicer, play Horobi, try to equip the already equipped Mindslicer to kill it. Every player discard and you draw 2. But even better? Diabolic Intent. Your opponents? 0 card. You? 2 unknown card and 1 card of your choice. Who ever said that black couldn't have card advantage? Certainly not me!
I only played multiplayer so far, so I can't really talk about 1v1 and the real win conditions since I won a lot with Exsanguinate and just attacking with my flyers against my opponents that did some part of the job too.
Horobi looks easy to kill, but at 4 mana, he's cheap to cast again, and I can reanimate it. Also, he's actually harder to deal with than it looks. He plays really good politics, your opponents know that there is usually a really big price to kill him.
Now, I would like to add a sac outlet because Swords to Plowshares does hurt the deck (Reassembling Skeleton) and with Eldrazi Monument, I'm limited to Phyrexian Tower as far as instant sac outlets go. Yes, Horobi is kind of a sac outlet sometimes but there are situations (like with the Monument) where traditional sac outlets would be even better. High Market should probably be in. I'm not sure what to remove though, I like having 24 Swamps for now, colorless mana and tapped lands can hurt. It's probably either Thawing Glaciers and Myriad Landscape. Both enter the battlefield tapped. They each have their own advantage, but I really like Thawing Glaciers in this deck. It gives a long term card advantage although it only ramps with Deserted Temple. But this deck likes having land drops, whether it's for Bloodghast or just for a long-term plan with multiple spells played the same turn. Also, I'm already playing Myriad in my blue deck, where I feel I need it more.
Carrionette is still a really strong consideration for now. It looks to me like a good way to abuse even more Horobi, but it's also so good by itself with Buried Alive or Entomb. Instant speed incounterable ability to exile a creature is pretty solid in this format. Well, not exactly uncounterable if your opponent has 2 mana left for each 4 you can tap, but in multiplayer I'm sure to still have good targets, and for 1v1 if my opponent plays around it, that's good for me too (tempo). Good chump blocker, good with Skullclamp. Filth is probably going out, he's not useful enough. My creatures mostly have built-in evasion with flying or intimidate anyway, I just don't feel it needs a card slot at this point. Nezumi Graverobber is another consideration (it's easier to recur than Bojuka Bog if I have some huge problem with my opponents' graveyards). I could probably remove Darkblast, the dredge isn't really needed and yeah, it's sometime better to be able to get back a card that does target but honestly, have you ever seen Darkblast in EDH? It just looks so bad. And finally, I really need at least one card to deal with enchantments - with all the tutors I have, I can live with having only Gate to Phyrexia and another card to deal with that kind of permanents. Xiahou Dun can recur the Gate. There are no (and please tell me if I'm wrong) black card that can deal with enchantments, so that would be a one-shot only colorless artifact. Humility hurts the deck pretty bad. I really need to deal with it. Spine of Ish Sah is interesting compared to the other solutions (Eye of Doom, Oblivion Stone, Perilous Vault and Unstable Obelisk) because of the self recursion (which can then be enabled with Gate to Phyrexia, I know it could almost be called a corner case at this point, but it's still an interesting interaction). If there is any better solution, I would like to hear about it (I have at least one way to deal against any permanent in all my other decks and it does include lands and enchantments).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Liquimetal Coating with Karn, Silver Golem are really good. Karn by himself can kill artifact lands and transform any artifact into creatures that I can kill if Horobi is here (or just with Gate to Phyrexia, that works too). Liquimetal Coating is a targetting effect (any permanent) and with Karn, it can kill any permanent (including lands for 1 mana). Carrionette and High Market are also in.
I'm not sure about the Staff, it could get back in. I'm now considering on removing Charcoal Diamond, Coldsteel Heart and Coalition Relic because I just realized that I always end up tutoring Urborg+Coffers anyway. Doubling Cube and Jet Medallion would probably be better overall. Nim Deathmantle is also an interesting one. Increasing Ambition is another card I don't like right now. I'll see what I could get to make the deck better since it's about 4 spots for either better ramping, tutoring or just synergy with Horobi.
I played a couple of 1v1 games today against Lazav, which is honestly a bad matchup overall because of hexproof (I have Arcane Lighthouse but I have to tutor it, have a targetting effect, play Horobi and still have everything up the same turn). We did 2-2 out of 4 games, he got me one with the big Jace and a Sword on Lazav (milling 20 cards per turn + Mesmeric Orb), I also lose one game being mana screwed. I won one game thanks to a turn 1 Phyrexian Reclamation and I won the other game with Horobi, Karn, Mikaeus and Cauldron against Clever Impersonator copying my Cauldron (that one was pretty tricky, but undying and killing Cauldron with Karn + my own Cauldron did it). I then attacked for lethal (Army of the Damned IS a really quick clock in 1v1).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Necrotic Ooze and Fleshwrither are the new considerations. Ooze is good, with Buried Alive and any kind of reanimation it's just... Karn, Hex Parasite, Ink-Eyes, Geth, Xiahou Dun, Erebos, Scuttlemutt... and the creatures in your opponents' graveyards has a bonus. Fleshwrither... well, it's a really weird card honestly, but it can be reanimated and has multiple awesome targets in the deck (currently (not counting Ooze) Xiahou Dun, Crypt Ghast, Erebos (lol), Mindslicer and Horobi if he ever gets shuffled). That could replace Increasing Ambitions if I also add the Ooze instead of the 3 mana rocks.
Victimize could be considered but I don't particularly like it. I never used Soul of New Phyrexia yet; I'm just not keeping 5 mana and if I am, it's probably a win more since I need Horobi and targetting effect to really abuse the ability. Not sure it's going to stay in (as crazy as it may sound, yeah, it might not be a card designed for this deck, I'll see).
Grim Tutor is too expansive for my needs. Infernal Tutor can pick up a Swamp or just be a second Demonic Tutor sometimes (not adding it right now, but considering it too). Might as well add a useful transmute tutor (that can get an absolute tutor if really needed).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Wow, not sure why I never thought about using this on Horobi. I mean, I saw that card and thought 7 mana was a lot to reanimate any creature at instant speed was a lot (Necromancy is 3!) but if used on Horobi... well, it's really good.
Thank you, I feel stupid now ;p. I'm definitely trying this card.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
That was a coin toss between Increasing Ambition and I feel that the latter is way better overall. I rarely use Lili's +1 since I'm mostly playing multiplayer games and it's just not really effective. Mindslicer is much much better. Her -2 usually gets her killed and doesn't give me any card advantage. Increasing Ambition does. I've been considering Diabolic Revelation too but the problem with this card is when you hit it for x>2, you end up taking 10 minutes thinking about what to get and I just don't like it overall. It's really great, but I don't like it.
To make up for that, I'm adding these:
- Necrotic Ooze : Ink-Eye gives him regenerate, Karn and Geth are also really good, Soul of New Phyrexia, Fleshwrither (see below), Burnished Hart and finally Hex Parasite. And let's not forget your opponents' creatures too...
- Fleshwrither : this is a really interesting tutor with a 3/3 body that can be clamped before activating his ability. I compare it to Birthing Pod, but in mono-black and one-time use only (the way Pod usually work in EDH anyway). 4-CMC creatures are amongst the most interesting in the deck: Mindslicer, Xiahou Dun, Necrotic Ooze, Erebos, Crypt Ghast and Horobi if it gets shuffled somehow (Warp World?). Sorcery-speed but directly into play. It's really good, you can get Xiahou Dun, sac it to get back Fleshwrither, play it again, sac it to get Necrotic Ooze and that Ooze has the Transfigure ability and the sac ability of Xiahou Dun too. It's just a fun card to play with and never a bad topdeck I think with Erebos drawing cards anyway.
- Fated Return : as suggested above, indestructible instant-speed Horobi is good.
- Sepulchral Primordial : not sure why it wasn't included before, but it's really good even for 1v1.
- Yawgmoth's Will : I didn't want to play that card at first but I must say that recursion is really good, especially for that Arcane Lighthouse against my friend playing Lazav. Petrified Field and Xiahou Dun can get nearly every cards in the deck (besides artifact, and artifact creatures can be reanimated) but I feel like I need even more, and at 3 mana it's just too good to not include it.
I'm updating the decklist in my original post right now with these 5 changes and the other changes I made before.
Karn is AWESOME, it's really EASY to destroy any non-creature artifact with him and Horobi and that's something usually hard to do with mono-black. I still feel like Gate to Phyrexia has its place though. In addition to that, Liquimetal Coating is another all-star in the deck, it can kill creatures with Horobi but can make any permanent an artifact and then a creature with Karn. I feel like we can deal with any permanents now. Also, Karn can make Eldrazi Monument a creature... and if you think about it... it's pretty awesome too.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Yeah, I found Fleshwrithers randomly why looking at the tutor primer and thought it was a really good card when you have other key 4-cmc creatures. The fact that it goes in the GY and can be reanimated is just awesome. Xiahou Dun is really good.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I read a little bit more about Liliana and people on other threads seem to agree that it's the worst black tutor available. Increasing Ambition puts a card in your hand right away, so if you have only one turn to do something late game with plenty of mana, it's obviously better than Liliana. In multiplayer, her +1 is bad and her ultimate just never happens. Double Imperial Seal for 5 mana isn't really good either. What are your thoughts on Liliana? Is that okay for you to play Increasing Ambition over her?
Staff of Domination: obviously good with 20 mana. But Erebos is better, isn't he? And Cauldron of Souls. What's the price of the added versatility on Staff? Too much I think, it's 4X-1 to kill creatures (3 mana for 1, 7 mana for 2, ...), 6X-1 to draw cards and the other abilities by themselves don't do much (tapping creatures for 5X-1 and gaining life for 3X-1). I have plenty of better ways to do every of these abilities. Versatility is too expansive.
Sudden Spoiling... that's a different case. Hexproof is everywhere in my meta and Arcane Lighthouse is definitely great but this is just another response (with Toxic Deluge and Mutilate). I feel good about this card because Split Second is incredible. It can also be used to remove indestructible from my creatures if Eldrazi Monument is on the battlefield (it's sometimes useful to actually kill Horobi lol). I would like to find a spot to test this card. I will see how it goes with Fated Return and the Primordial.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Sudden Spoiling in. Withered Wretch in. The first one deals with really problematic creatures and only affect a player (not me). It removes abilities granted by equipments (the equipment needs to be re-equip) and hexproof/shroud is always a problem so that's one more solution. The little zombie is just one more way to deal with graveyards, because I realized I'm not the only one abusing graveyards and Bojuka Bog is definitely not enough. So now I have to remove 2 cards.
Fated Return out. Couple of reasons for that, the most important one being Corpse Dance. This card is just too good, it doesn't target and can play around graveyard removal like crazy. It's just so much better for even less mana that Fated Return looks really bad. More over, indestructibility as a one-shot effect isn't that good. Eldrazi Monument is good because it stays here and it can be indestructible itself with Karn in play. That's good synergy here. However, Fated Return only works once, for 7 mana, and the format (most specifically my meta) is packed with exile effects and Toxic Deluges. The good thing about Horobi is that I'm not losing my creatures to Path to Exile. Yes, it will happen when Eldrazi Monument is here but it's significantly better and good enough to be worth including, just to play against the occasional Maze of Ith, Tower of the Magistrate or the more played Yavimaya Hollow.
With that said, I still have to remove one card and that's really hard.
I don't think I will remove Carrionette, just because this card is so flavorful and fun, and it's pretty good with or without Horobi. It's also a number 1 target with Buried Alive and Entomb when needed. Endless Cockroaches is a different case. He's definitely worse than Reassembling Skeleton (because everything is worse than the little skeleton anyway). Bloodghast, Nether Traitor and Bloodsoaked Champion aren't stricly better, but they all cost less mana and can be reused if discarded/countered where Endless Cockroaches has to be reanimated by some other ways. For that reason, it's not what I'm getting with Buried Alive. That's 4 mana for 2 cards with Skullclamp as many times as I want, which is still worse than the 3 mana needed to do this with the skeleton. Out of the 5 self-reanimating creatures, I feel it is the worst. That's the card I'm removing from my list for now.
I still want to discuss the case of the other card I considered removing: Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni is a particular case. I never tutor for him, but that might be because I'm not (yet) an experienced pilot of this deck. More than half the creatures I play have built-in evasion (flying, shadow, intimidate, fear, swampwalk of even trample). It's not really hard to use the nunjitsu ability. The regenerate ability hasn't been relevant yet. My meta is now packed of Homeward Path (that I somehow don't play in any of my decks). And this land really hurts a couple of creatures in the deck. Overall, I feel like Ink-Eyes has troubles finding a real house in the deck. Also, his triggered ability lets me choose only from one specific graveyard. He's still good, but he doesn't do much when I reanimate him. Sepulchral Primordial and Puppeteer Clique are doing a difference immediately wheareas Ink-Eyes can blank my Corpse Dance. I leave it in the list for now, but it could get cut the day I find something better.
Finally, I want to say that Perilous Vault is this deck's ennemy #1. If you know that your opponent plays it, never overextend too much.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I'd recommend ditching the roaches for the reasons you stated. Even if you replaced them with a draw spell you'd be better off - you can then draw into one of your other small creatures or creature generators. You could also replace Ink-Eyes and Withered wretch with Nezumi Graverobber that does both. I did end up taking out Nykthos from my version - it was ok but I've found that when I get enough swamps, I usually win. I think the benefit of Nykthos doesn't outweigh the risk of getting no swamps in my opening hand which can occasionally happen. I'm still running a Grave Pact to deal with hexproof/indestructible and have also been playing around with Death Cloud. I like to get Liliana of the Dark Realms out then Death Cloud for everything - opponents are crushed and you will hit your land drops and then go ultimate with her. One other thought is that is you are using sudden Spoiling you might consider Massacre Wurm. It is pretty good on its own and with Horobi blowing up creatures it can end a game quickly. I'm also in love with Aphotic Wisps is good early as a cycler, good late with Horobi or to push an attacker through, and can be easily recurred with Yawgmoth's Will for card advantage.
I'd recommend ditching the roaches for the reasons you stated. Even if you replaced them with a draw spell you'd be better off - you can then draw into one of your other small creatures or creature generators. You could also replace Ink-Eyes and Withered wretch with Nezumi Graverobber that does both. I did end up taking out Nykthos from my version - it was ok but I've found that when I get enough swamps, I usually win. I think the benefit of Nykthos doesn't outweigh the risk of getting no swamps in my opening hand which can occasionally happen. I'm still running a Grave Pact to deal with hexproof/indestructible and have also been playing around with Death Cloud. I like to get Liliana of the Dark Realms out then Death Cloud for everything - opponents are crushed and you will hit your land drops and then go ultimate with her. One other thought is that is you are using sudden Spoiling you might consider Massacre Wurm. It is pretty good on its own and with Horobi blowing up creatures it can end a game quickly. I'm also in love with Aphotic Wisps is good early as a cycler, good late with Horobi or to push an attacker through, and can be easily recurred with Yawgmoth's Will for card advantage.
The reason why I'm not playing Grave Pact is just because I never felt the need for it. I can't recall any game where I really had problems with creatures. And the hexproof general I'm regularly facing is Sigarda, which Grave Pact doesn't affect at all. I'm just tutoring Arcane Lighthouse and that's usually enough to win the game (with Petrified Field and Yawgmoth's Will as recursion, and there are always the traditional Toxic Deluge and Mutilate). For the same reasons, I don't feel that Massacre Wurm is needed, it's 6 mana for a 6/5 with no evasion and we have to keep in mind that creatures are easy to kill with Horobi, so the ETB must be a really good value if I want the creature to be worth including.
Death Cloud is definitely good but I would put it in a more competitive package because it's kind of an unfun card for my casual meta.
The problem with Aphotic Wisps is that you don't draw a card if Horobi in on the battlefield, since the spell never resolve. At that point, I prefer Darkblast, but I also removed that card. The only targetting instant I'm using right now is Touch of Darkness, and I don't think you can beat that. I prefer playing permanents that will target every turn like Liquimetal Coating than a one-shot effect only. Yawgmoth's Will is just an insurance policy to get back destroyed lands or some artifact that I couldn't get with Xiahou Dun (yes there is Beacon of Unrest for that too). It's never really dead and it's sometimes better than Xiahou Dun if I want multiple cards at once.
Nezumi Graverobber: not sure why I'm not adding this instead of Withered Wretch. Same CMC and same purpose with some extra. The only difference is the cost of the activated ability, but at 2 mana, I rarely need to exile more than 2 or 3 cards per turn, so that it shouldn't matter that much. I'm replacing Withered Wretch with Nezumi Graverobber right now, good find. Thank you!
I still have a spot left after I remove Ink-Eyes but I don't feel I need Grave Pact, Massacre Wurm or Aphotic Wisps. I will have to look at all the cards one by one again to find something else.
EDIT: totally forgot writting about Nykthos; I have 24 Swamps right now with 6 non-basic lands also producing black. That's 30 lands producing black (not counting Nykthos). I never had any problem with my colored mana yet, but I've only been playing this deck for a couple of weeks. I'll see if it ever happens. Nykthos did manage to win me a game yesterday where the couple of extra mana it provided made the difference to Exsanguinate for the win. There are a lot of BB stuff in the deck, most notably Bloodghast and Nether Traitor. With Horobi, that's 6 mana. I don't think I get a lot of extra with it, but I never had any problem with it either, so it's just extra mana anyway or it's colorless. I don't feel really good about playing it in my 3 Commander decks at the moment, but I have to say that it's rarely bad in mono-colored decks anyway. The only case where I would rather prefer a swamp is with Crypt Ghast, but I can live with that.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I have played a duel version of horobi and they are some cards that you could fit in your list : Darksteel garrison protect your utility land and use as a removal Staff of NiN always did a great job for me Scale of chiss-goria and Tooth of chiss-goria might be too cute for multiplayer, but you can caught people by suprise with these.
I have played a duel version of horobi and they are some cards that you could fit in your list : Darksteel garrison protect your utility land and use as a removal Staff of NiN always did a great job for me Scale of chiss-goria and Tooth of chiss-goria might be too cute for multiplayer, but you can caught people by suprise with these.
Staff of Nin is already in my list, and it's good! The Chiss-Goria are, as you said, a little bit too cute: they don't do enough by themselves overall.
Darksteel Garrison is an interesting one. I saw that card a couple of times already when browsing the Gatherer for cards for Horobi and never tried it because I thought it was expansive to use (2+3) and not really versatile (I still have to pick a target if I'm the only one to control a creature, and that sucks). Now that I played more games with the deck, I noticed that some lands are highly targetted by Beast Within and other versatile removal. Whether it's Cabal Coffers, Arcane Lighthouse or just Urborg, it usually sets me back a little bit. With that said, what do you do when you equipped Cabal Coffers and the only creature on the battlefield is Horobi? You kill it because you need the mana? That's the kind of thing that I don't want to do. I really could get over the mana cost, but it would need to be a free activated ability instead of a triggered ability (something like Tap ~: Target creatures gets +1/+1. Activate this ability only if ~ is attached to a tapped land.) Written that way, I would definitely use it.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Since I'm playing Petrified Field and Yawgmoth's Will, I feel like it's easy enough to recur a land. As easy as it was for my opponent to Regrowth his Wasteland 3 times in the same game. That was definitely a problem but he did so much effort to keep me off Coffers (and a big Exsanguinate) that I just won that game with Kokusho.
Something to make lands indestructible is still an interesting idea. I thought about Eldrazi Monument combined with Liquimetal Coating and Karn but the land is 0/0 and just dies... pretty sad ;p. Giving hexproof/indestructible to a land repeatedly would be a nice touch.
I can live with the occasional hate on my mana base, with Coffers I usually get at least one use out of it for some card advantage (Erebos, Increasing Ambition or any other expansive shenanigan) and then, when I'm ready to win, I can just reanimate it if it didn't get exiled. I have multiple targetting lands in the deck and usually people don't waste too much effort on Thawing Glaciers, High Market or Deserted Temple. The real targets are always Coffers, Arcane Lighthouse and sometimes Volrath's Stronghold and I normally get one use of all of these since they come into play untapped.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Cards considered since I removed Ink-Eyes and I'm now playing with 99 cards:
Solemn Simulacrum: I don't play it but it's good. It's card advantage at its best. I ended up Reanimate-ing my opponent's Solemn 3 times on turns 4-5-6 during a game and I won that game, because you know, mana helps and that's 6 cards not in your deck anymore (3 lands and 3 unknown card).
Moonlight Bargain: this card is really powerful. For 5 mana, you can draw 5 cards (and lose 2 life) at instant speed, but if you want to reanimate something, that's perfect too; it's Buried Alive on your top 5 cards of your library and Erebos for whatever you want in your hand (2 life per card). Did anyone ever played this card? How did it feel?
Shrouded Lore: I see this card in every other Horobi list but never played it. It gets back any card, including lands. I still prefer Yawgmoth's Will over it, it's probably better in 1v1 (less chances of getting your graveyard exiled) but it can also play politics in multiplayer (if you need something to deal with a specific threat on the battlefield); finally, it doesn't target any card in your graveyard.
Glaring Spotlight: yes, I'm looking at you Sigarda, Lazav and Uril. I would play this card IF it was working against Lightning Greaves too (it doesn't) and if it gave Indestructible instead of Unblockable (keep dreaming!).
Promise of Power: Another draw 5 for 5, sorcery speed this time but 5 life instead of 10. I prefer the versatility of Bargain, especially because it's instant speed. The Demon token here doesn't matter that much, especially at sorcery speed.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
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Since I pretty much failed to find any list that I'm happy with, I built one nearly from scratch to fit my own playstyle.
Here's the decklist:
1 Horobi, Death's Wail
Creatures: 23
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Hex Parasite
1 Bloodghast
1 Carrionette
1 Nether Traitor
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Withered Wretch
1 Burnished Hart
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Mindslicer
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
Artifacts: 10
1 Expedition Map
1 Skullclamp
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mimic Vat
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Acorn Catapult
1 Jade Monolith
1 Cauldron of Souls
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Staff of Nin
1 Reanimate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Exsanguinate
1 Profane Command
1 Buried Alive
1 Grim Tutor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mutilate
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Army of the Damned
Instants: 5
1 Touch of Darkness
1 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Corpse Dance
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Moonlight Bargain
Enchantments: 9
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Gate to Phyrexia
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Grave Pact
1 Black Market
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
Lands: 38
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Deserted Temple
1 Dust Bowl
1 High Market
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
24 Swamp
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Urborg
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
All my decklist are usually comboless (no infinite combo) but based on strong synergies, so this is how I came up with this decklist.
Already considered cards: a lot of them actually... all the other recurrable creatures (like Nether Shadow), other targetting effects (more like Baton of Morale or Nefashu, or even Kuro, Pitlord), all the legal lands that can be played in the deck, other reanimation spells (Chainer, Dementia Master) and many more, but I'm sure you guys can come up with other cards or actual good reasons why I should play these.
Horobi is good at killing creatures, all I need is something that can target. With the lands being uncounterable and colorless, all you need is really a tutor (this deck packs plenty) to start the killing engine. Your opponents will have to adapt to their creatures dying most of the time. Lots of reanimation, since our creatures die too, but we should usually always have more repeatable targetting effects than the opponents (although Staff of Nin and Tower of the Magistrate are cards you will see in other decks). Indestructible will help for sure: Soul of the New Phyrexia (that feels specially printed for this deck, thanks WotC!) and Eldrazi Monument.
Gate to Phyrexia is really underestimated. With more than 10 tutors, it's pretty easy to find something recurrable (Reassembling Skeleton is a real pain to deal with since you reanimate it in response to graveyard removal or destroy it in response to Path to Exile).
I play 39 lands but Cabal Coffers doesn't produce mana early game (so I don't count it just to be sure). Deserted Temple is just really good, it untaps Urborg and other utility lands, with Thawing Glaciers it just ramps, and this deck wants to get access to 10 mana eventually. Horobi is usually enough to stop any agro deck, since all you need is 5 mana to play Horobi and have Touch of Darkness to one-sided-instant-wrath the whole battlefield in response to Horobi being killed (watch how many spells your opponents can waste killing your creatures). Also, Horobi only costs 4 and can be reanimated too!
Also, before playing this deck, some basic ruling knowledge could be needed. If a spell or an ability has a target, that target must still be legal upon resolution. If a spell or an ability with no legal target anymore would resolve, it "fizzles": it is countered.
With that said, it means that killing your opponent's creatures with Acorn Catapult doesn't give them a token; otherwise, it's (just!) a second Bitterblossom for 1 mana per turn.
Cauldron of Souls is an amazing card, it's just good by itself and awesome with Horobi. Also, with Mikaeus... well, it's even better than with Horobi. This is a reason why I'm not playing any infinite sac fodder (Ashnod's Altar for example) since I don't want infinite combos in the deck (without any sac engine, Mikaeus and Cauldron don't go infinite, and even then, Cauldron needs to tap for its activation). Contamination would definitely be really strong in this deck, but I don't want to be "that guy", this is the kind of card that completely kills the purpose of EDH I think. This deck is casual. Strong synergies but still casual. Kormus Bell is another completely stupid card with Horobi, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Touch of Darkness (or Cauldron). There are definitely enough tutors in this deck to make all these lockdown/combo a really viable strategy to win, and if your meta is fine with these, I would encourage you to play them.
Competitive package: Contamination, Kormus Bell, Ashnod's Altar and Triskelion.
How does this deeck win? Mostly by turning creatures sideway. And not always our own creatures. With Mindslicer being a 4/3 and the amount of reanimation spells I play, be prepared to see your opponents worry a lot when they see that Mindslicer is a 10-turn clock by itself! Just kill it with Horobi if needed; no need for sac outlets in this deck, with all the targetting and Horobi, we got our own new sac mechanic. Exsanguinate is a strong win card too, with Liliana's emblem or Coffers it usually gets there. Karn+Liquimetal can shoot down a land every turn, and Karn with Horobi can shoot down any artifact every turn if you can target multiple creatures. Also, attacking with your own artifact is sometimes the right play too! Stealing creatures is also a win thanks to all the graveyard reanimation package.
I would be happy to see if anyone is interested in playing this general but I think it's one of the most weird mono-black generals. I like weird decks, I play Norin and Ixidor (see my sig), I like when I can screw up with my opponents' decks and change how they play the game. Just get them out of their comfort zone, that's what it is! And most EDH decks play a many creatures. EDH is so creature-based that you actually have a general always available in your command zone.
I'm waiting for your suggestions and I hope you will enjoy this deck as much as I do!
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I think the approach you took is extremely strong and will probably win you a lot of games as is. I think the creature based decks that are going to give Horobi even the slightest problem would be indestructible or Hexproof type decks like Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Uril, the Miststalker, Thrun, the Last Troll, etc. Heavy artifact decks might be a problem too. For this reason I found a slot for Grave Pact. To help with the artifact decks, I have both Kill Switch and Karn, Silver Golem to animate their artifacts and kill them with Horobi. I also think Unspeakable Symbol is a powerhouse and I would replace Oasis with it.
How do you see this deck playing out against control type decks? That's my only concern for my Horobi. I have the same four little reanimators (BS Champion, Bloodghast, NetherTraitor, reass Skeleton). It's kind of a crime to not see skullclamp in there with them. I know you can't equip them with Horobi on the field but just equip them before he comes out...
Anyways, great build!
The only problem with Grave Pact is that it's mostly a dead draw against other decks. I play Arcane Lighthouse, Toxic Deluge and Mutilate. With roughly 10 tutors in the deck, that should be enough to kill Avacyn and Thrun. If those cards are played as a general, that's a different story and then yes, I would probably pack more hate against those, but they're not played as Commanders in my meta.
Uril... well, Horobi usually comes the same turn, and they pretty much need to deal with it, or all those beautiful enchantments are pretty useless if you can't target your own Uril.
Unspeakable Symbol has been considered but for multiplayer, the effect is just too expansive. 3 life point is huge. Kokusho can help but with Erebos and Reanimate, life can go down pretty quickly already. I didn't include Chainer for the same reasons. Against some specific deck, Horobi will always be a target. Altough we can defend ourselves fine most of the time, I tend to avoid losing too much life. I agree that a permanent that can target multiple times per turn would be better than Oasis though.
Karn, Silver Golem is really interesting though. I prefer Gate to Phyrexia over Kill Switch though, because I do play a couple of artifacts too. Cheap artifact ramp spells and Cauldron of Souls.
Skullclamp should probably be included despite Horobi. And with Bitterblossom and Eldrazi Monument, this card is just too powerful. I will try to find place for it.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
A couple last thoughts: I like Mimic Vat over something like Coffin Queen; you can catch Horobi in the Vat and use him only when you need him on your turn once you have your target lands active. Also, Endless Whispers is total fun in my build - Horobi always stays in play so you can just clear the field with your lands or cauldron and swing with your beaters. It's redundant for you because you have all that reanimation but I love playing it.
EDIT - You do have mimic vat, I missed that
Mimic Vat is one of the best token generator in the deck. Coffin Queen could probably still go out since it has summoning sickness and it's easy to target. Sheoldred is probably better overall when I want to get more value from my Reanimate. Or maybe Chainer if I don't care about life loss.
I really need to find room for Skullclamp, but that's about it right now. I have some problems with my mana curve, it goes like that right now:
1-cmc: 8
2-cmc: 14
3-cmc: 11
4-cmc: 8
5-cmc: 7
6-cmc: 9 (including Beseech the Queen)
7-cmc: 2
8-cmc: 1
Even if I'm not counting Beseech as a 6-drop (because it's definitely more a 3 or 4-drop), my 6-cmc spells are still way too heavy. Skullclamp has a similar role to Harvester of Souls. I don't really see myself removing Geth, Ink-Eyes, Kokusho, Mikaeus, Nirkana, Soul of New Phyrexia or Staff of Nin. Actually, since I would still have too many 6-drops, I could remove Nirkana Revenant, since Crypt Ghast is better. But Nirkana as a double-purpose as a beater/mana-sink. I probably don't need both though.
I would like to play more self-reanimating creatures too, but Nether Shadow, Ichorid, Nim Devourer and all the others have pretty big drawbacks compared to the landfall of Bloodghast or raid on Bloodsoaked Champion. Still, that's 9 cards that are a recurrable source of creatures (if you look at my decklist by function). Should be enough to justify Eldrazi Monument, Gate to Phyrexia and Skullclamp. I'm probably just greedy.
I personally don't think that Pestilence effects (or Crypt Rats, since you can reanimate that one) are that much needed. I think that Horobi, paired with Arcane Lighthouse and a few really good boardwipes like Toxic Deluge and Mutilate, should definitely be enough with 10 tutors.
Maybe I need Elixir of Immortality or Yawgmoth's Will to get a second use of some sorceries/instants. Or Xiao-Dun (or whatever the expansive black legend P3K is called).
If you have time, post your list, I might have a better idea of what you are doing exactly with the deck. So far, it looks like you are playing a few more removal spells that I didn't find necessary in my playtesting, but I will have more time to play some more games during my Christmas vacations to really figure this out.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Skull clamp takes a spot but there are 2 spots left. I would like to add a card that can target multiple times per turn but could be useful without Horobi. Not sure about the last spot but I don't think Nirkana or Harvester are really needed.
Right now the best repeatable effect I found is Baton of Morale, which is... awkward. Banding isn't bad with tokens but 2 mana for banding is bad. Also, what about Carrionette? Really weird card and awkwardly written too, but the way it works with Horobi makes it destroying multiple creatures for 4 mana every time. Since the exile clause is on resolution and not as a cost, it gets countered if the creature is destroyed by its own trigger added with Horobi. And if Horobi isn't here... well, it still exiles a creature if my opponent tapped out. If he has 2 mana available, I can pay 8 (yes, it's mana-intensive).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
- Spawning Pool
- Skeletal Scrying
- Coffin Queen
- Nirkana Revenant
- Commander's Sphere
- Oasis
+ Staff of Domination (3 mana to kill a creature with Horobi + 4 for each other iteration, it's never a bad topdeck since it gives you 1 life for each 2+3 mana you pay and 1 card for each 5+6 mana you pay)
+ Skullclamp (just so good)
+ Scuttlemutt (better utility than Commander's Sphere)
+ Staff of Nin (does it need an explanation?)
So still 2 spots left. I consider the Staff has an upgrade to Oasis for now. Since I removed a mana-producing land, I think Nykthos could take that spot just fine, it's really easy to get value out of it and it's one more target for Deserted Temple.
The only thing I'm missing is recursion for non-creature and non-artifact (Geth) spells. I don't think there is any real alternative to Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and at $100, I think it's well worth it.
+ Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
+ Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
I will update the original post with theses changes later.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My opponents just don't really know what to do, when they waste their spells on Horobi, I just cast it again and the fun starts over. Eldrazi Monument is really good, also with Cauldron of Souls on the battlefield at the same time, you can use the Cauldron to give persist to one of your indestructible creature (I'm assuming Horobi is here, so that could be Horobi) and then sac that creature to the Monument just to get it back because it did gain persist (it's good with Rune-Scarred Demon and Kokusho).
One another cool interaction was Mindslicer. Let's assume a turn 1 Skullclamp, turn 2 Coldsteel Heart and turn 3 Mindslicer. What's the best you could ever play on turn 4? Couple of possibilities... equip Clamp to Mindslicer, play Horobi, try to equip the already equipped Mindslicer to kill it. Every player discard and you draw 2. But even better? Diabolic Intent. Your opponents? 0 card. You? 2 unknown card and 1 card of your choice. Who ever said that black couldn't have card advantage? Certainly not me!
I only played multiplayer so far, so I can't really talk about 1v1 and the real win conditions since I won a lot with Exsanguinate and just attacking with my flyers against my opponents that did some part of the job too.
Horobi looks easy to kill, but at 4 mana, he's cheap to cast again, and I can reanimate it. Also, he's actually harder to deal with than it looks. He plays really good politics, your opponents know that there is usually a really big price to kill him.
Now, I would like to add a sac outlet because Swords to Plowshares does hurt the deck (Reassembling Skeleton) and with Eldrazi Monument, I'm limited to Phyrexian Tower as far as instant sac outlets go. Yes, Horobi is kind of a sac outlet sometimes but there are situations (like with the Monument) where traditional sac outlets would be even better. High Market should probably be in. I'm not sure what to remove though, I like having 24 Swamps for now, colorless mana and tapped lands can hurt. It's probably either Thawing Glaciers and Myriad Landscape. Both enter the battlefield tapped. They each have their own advantage, but I really like Thawing Glaciers in this deck. It gives a long term card advantage although it only ramps with Deserted Temple. But this deck likes having land drops, whether it's for Bloodghast or just for a long-term plan with multiple spells played the same turn. Also, I'm already playing Myriad in my blue deck, where I feel I need it more.
Carrionette is still a really strong consideration for now. It looks to me like a good way to abuse even more Horobi, but it's also so good by itself with Buried Alive or Entomb. Instant speed incounterable ability to exile a creature is pretty solid in this format. Well, not exactly uncounterable if your opponent has 2 mana left for each 4 you can tap, but in multiplayer I'm sure to still have good targets, and for 1v1 if my opponent plays around it, that's good for me too (tempo). Good chump blocker, good with Skullclamp. Filth is probably going out, he's not useful enough. My creatures mostly have built-in evasion with flying or intimidate anyway, I just don't feel it needs a card slot at this point. Nezumi Graverobber is another consideration (it's easier to recur than Bojuka Bog if I have some huge problem with my opponents' graveyards). I could probably remove Darkblast, the dredge isn't really needed and yeah, it's sometime better to be able to get back a card that does target but honestly, have you ever seen Darkblast in EDH? It just looks so bad. And finally, I really need at least one card to deal with enchantments - with all the tutors I have, I can live with having only Gate to Phyrexia and another card to deal with that kind of permanents. Xiahou Dun can recur the Gate. There are no (and please tell me if I'm wrong) black card that can deal with enchantments, so that would be a one-shot only colorless artifact. Humility hurts the deck pretty bad. I really need to deal with it. Spine of Ish Sah is interesting compared to the other solutions (Eye of Doom, Oblivion Stone, Perilous Vault and Unstable Obelisk) because of the self recursion (which can then be enabled with Gate to Phyrexia, I know it could almost be called a corner case at this point, but it's still an interesting interaction). If there is any better solution, I would like to hear about it (I have at least one way to deal against any permanent in all my other decks and it does include lands and enchantments).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Out: Filth, Darkblast, Staff of Domination and Myriad Landscape.
I'm not sure about the Staff, it could get back in. I'm now considering on removing Charcoal Diamond, Coldsteel Heart and Coalition Relic because I just realized that I always end up tutoring Urborg+Coffers anyway. Doubling Cube and Jet Medallion would probably be better overall. Nim Deathmantle is also an interesting one. Increasing Ambition is another card I don't like right now. I'll see what I could get to make the deck better since it's about 4 spots for either better ramping, tutoring or just synergy with Horobi.
I played a couple of 1v1 games today against Lazav, which is honestly a bad matchup overall because of hexproof (I have Arcane Lighthouse but I have to tutor it, have a targetting effect, play Horobi and still have everything up the same turn). We did 2-2 out of 4 games, he got me one with the big Jace and a Sword on Lazav (milling 20 cards per turn + Mesmeric Orb), I also lose one game being mana screwed. I won one game thanks to a turn 1 Phyrexian Reclamation and I won the other game with Horobi, Karn, Mikaeus and Cauldron against Clever Impersonator copying my Cauldron (that one was pretty tricky, but undying and killing Cauldron with Karn + my own Cauldron did it). I then attacked for lethal (Army of the Damned IS a really quick clock in 1v1).
(I haven't edited the OP yet with the new list)
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Victimize could be considered but I don't particularly like it. I never used Soul of New Phyrexia yet; I'm just not keeping 5 mana and if I am, it's probably a win more since I need Horobi and targetting effect to really abuse the ability. Not sure it's going to stay in (as crazy as it may sound, yeah, it might not be a card designed for this deck, I'll see).
Grim Tutor is too expansive for my needs. Infernal Tutor can pick up a Swamp or just be a second Demonic Tutor sometimes (not adding it right now, but considering it too). Might as well add a useful transmute tutor (that can get an absolute tutor if really needed).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It has an expensive cmc, but worth it in my budget build.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Thank you, I feel stupid now ;p. I'm definitely trying this card.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
- Charcoal Diamond
- Mind Stone
- Coalition Relic
- Coldsteel Heart
With the number of tutors this deck have, it's really easy to get Urborg+Coffers on.
Also:
- Liliana Vess
That was a coin toss between Increasing Ambition and I feel that the latter is way better overall. I rarely use Lili's +1 since I'm mostly playing multiplayer games and it's just not really effective. Mindslicer is much much better. Her -2 usually gets her killed and doesn't give me any card advantage. Increasing Ambition does. I've been considering Diabolic Revelation too but the problem with this card is when you hit it for x>2, you end up taking 10 minutes thinking about what to get and I just don't like it overall. It's really great, but I don't like it.
To make up for that, I'm adding these:
- Necrotic Ooze : Ink-Eye gives him regenerate, Karn and Geth are also really good, Soul of New Phyrexia, Fleshwrither (see below), Burnished Hart and finally Hex Parasite. And let's not forget your opponents' creatures too...
- Fleshwrither : this is a really interesting tutor with a 3/3 body that can be clamped before activating his ability. I compare it to Birthing Pod, but in mono-black and one-time use only (the way Pod usually work in EDH anyway). 4-CMC creatures are amongst the most interesting in the deck: Mindslicer, Xiahou Dun, Necrotic Ooze, Erebos, Crypt Ghast and Horobi if it gets shuffled somehow (Warp World?). Sorcery-speed but directly into play. It's really good, you can get Xiahou Dun, sac it to get back Fleshwrither, play it again, sac it to get Necrotic Ooze and that Ooze has the Transfigure ability and the sac ability of Xiahou Dun too. It's just a fun card to play with and never a bad topdeck I think with Erebos drawing cards anyway.
- Fated Return : as suggested above, indestructible instant-speed Horobi is good.
- Sepulchral Primordial : not sure why it wasn't included before, but it's really good even for 1v1.
- Yawgmoth's Will : I didn't want to play that card at first but I must say that recursion is really good, especially for that Arcane Lighthouse against my friend playing Lazav. Petrified Field and Xiahou Dun can get nearly every cards in the deck (besides artifact, and artifact creatures can be reanimated) but I feel like I need even more, and at 3 mana it's just too good to not include it.
I'm updating the decklist in my original post right now with these 5 changes and the other changes I made before.
Karn is AWESOME, it's really EASY to destroy any non-creature artifact with him and Horobi and that's something usually hard to do with mono-black. I still feel like Gate to Phyrexia has its place though. In addition to that, Liquimetal Coating is another all-star in the deck, it can kill creatures with Horobi but can make any permanent an artifact and then a creature with Karn. I feel like we can deal with any permanents now. Also, Karn can make Eldrazi Monument a creature... and if you think about it... it's pretty awesome too.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I just ordered some Fleshwrithers for this and other decks. Fun card.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I read a little bit more about Liliana and people on other threads seem to agree that it's the worst black tutor available. Increasing Ambition puts a card in your hand right away, so if you have only one turn to do something late game with plenty of mana, it's obviously better than Liliana. In multiplayer, her +1 is bad and her ultimate just never happens. Double Imperial Seal for 5 mana isn't really good either. What are your thoughts on Liliana? Is that okay for you to play Increasing Ambition over her?
Staff of Domination: obviously good with 20 mana. But Erebos is better, isn't he? And Cauldron of Souls. What's the price of the added versatility on Staff? Too much I think, it's 4X-1 to kill creatures (3 mana for 1, 7 mana for 2, ...), 6X-1 to draw cards and the other abilities by themselves don't do much (tapping creatures for 5X-1 and gaining life for 3X-1). I have plenty of better ways to do every of these abilities. Versatility is too expansive.
Sudden Spoiling... that's a different case. Hexproof is everywhere in my meta and Arcane Lighthouse is definitely great but this is just another response (with Toxic Deluge and Mutilate). I feel good about this card because Split Second is incredible. It can also be used to remove indestructible from my creatures if Eldrazi Monument is on the battlefield (it's sometimes useful to actually kill Horobi lol). I would like to find a spot to test this card. I will see how it goes with Fated Return and the Primordial.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Fated Return out. Couple of reasons for that, the most important one being Corpse Dance. This card is just too good, it doesn't target and can play around graveyard removal like crazy. It's just so much better for even less mana that Fated Return looks really bad. More over, indestructibility as a one-shot effect isn't that good. Eldrazi Monument is good because it stays here and it can be indestructible itself with Karn in play. That's good synergy here. However, Fated Return only works once, for 7 mana, and the format (most specifically my meta) is packed with exile effects and Toxic Deluges. The good thing about Horobi is that I'm not losing my creatures to Path to Exile. Yes, it will happen when Eldrazi Monument is here but it's significantly better and good enough to be worth including, just to play against the occasional Maze of Ith, Tower of the Magistrate or the more played Yavimaya Hollow.
With that said, I still have to remove one card and that's really hard.
Carrionette, Endless Cockroaches and Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni are the cards I'm looking at right now.
I don't think I will remove Carrionette, just because this card is so flavorful and fun, and it's pretty good with or without Horobi. It's also a number 1 target with Buried Alive and Entomb when needed. Endless Cockroaches is a different case. He's definitely worse than Reassembling Skeleton (because everything is worse than the little skeleton anyway). Bloodghast, Nether Traitor and Bloodsoaked Champion aren't stricly better, but they all cost less mana and can be reused if discarded/countered where Endless Cockroaches has to be reanimated by some other ways. For that reason, it's not what I'm getting with Buried Alive. That's 4 mana for 2 cards with Skullclamp as many times as I want, which is still worse than the 3 mana needed to do this with the skeleton. Out of the 5 self-reanimating creatures, I feel it is the worst. That's the card I'm removing from my list for now.
I still want to discuss the case of the other card I considered removing: Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni is a particular case. I never tutor for him, but that might be because I'm not (yet) an experienced pilot of this deck. More than half the creatures I play have built-in evasion (flying, shadow, intimidate, fear, swampwalk of even trample). It's not really hard to use the nunjitsu ability. The regenerate ability hasn't been relevant yet. My meta is now packed of Homeward Path (that I somehow don't play in any of my decks). And this land really hurts a couple of creatures in the deck. Overall, I feel like Ink-Eyes has troubles finding a real house in the deck. Also, his triggered ability lets me choose only from one specific graveyard. He's still good, but he doesn't do much when I reanimate him. Sepulchral Primordial and Puppeteer Clique are doing a difference immediately wheareas Ink-Eyes can blank my Corpse Dance. I leave it in the list for now, but it could get cut the day I find something better.
Finally, I want to say that Perilous Vault is this deck's ennemy #1. If you know that your opponent plays it, never overextend too much.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
The reason why I'm not playing Grave Pact is just because I never felt the need for it. I can't recall any game where I really had problems with creatures. And the hexproof general I'm regularly facing is Sigarda, which Grave Pact doesn't affect at all. I'm just tutoring Arcane Lighthouse and that's usually enough to win the game (with Petrified Field and Yawgmoth's Will as recursion, and there are always the traditional Toxic Deluge and Mutilate). For the same reasons, I don't feel that Massacre Wurm is needed, it's 6 mana for a 6/5 with no evasion and we have to keep in mind that creatures are easy to kill with Horobi, so the ETB must be a really good value if I want the creature to be worth including.
Death Cloud is definitely good but I would put it in a more competitive package because it's kind of an unfun card for my casual meta.
The problem with Aphotic Wisps is that you don't draw a card if Horobi in on the battlefield, since the spell never resolve. At that point, I prefer Darkblast, but I also removed that card. The only targetting instant I'm using right now is Touch of Darkness, and I don't think you can beat that. I prefer playing permanents that will target every turn like Liquimetal Coating than a one-shot effect only. Yawgmoth's Will is just an insurance policy to get back destroyed lands or some artifact that I couldn't get with Xiahou Dun (yes there is Beacon of Unrest for that too). It's never really dead and it's sometimes better than Xiahou Dun if I want multiple cards at once.
Nezumi Graverobber: not sure why I'm not adding this instead of Withered Wretch. Same CMC and same purpose with some extra. The only difference is the cost of the activated ability, but at 2 mana, I rarely need to exile more than 2 or 3 cards per turn, so that it shouldn't matter that much. I'm replacing Withered Wretch with Nezumi Graverobber right now, good find. Thank you!
I still have a spot left after I remove Ink-Eyes but I don't feel I need Grave Pact, Massacre Wurm or Aphotic Wisps. I will have to look at all the cards one by one again to find something else.
EDIT: totally forgot writting about Nykthos; I have 24 Swamps right now with 6 non-basic lands also producing black. That's 30 lands producing black (not counting Nykthos). I never had any problem with my colored mana yet, but I've only been playing this deck for a couple of weeks. I'll see if it ever happens. Nykthos did manage to win me a game yesterday where the couple of extra mana it provided made the difference to Exsanguinate for the win. There are a lot of BB stuff in the deck, most notably Bloodghast and Nether Traitor. With Horobi, that's 6 mana. I don't think I get a lot of extra with it, but I never had any problem with it either, so it's just extra mana anyway or it's colorless. I don't feel really good about playing it in my 3 Commander decks at the moment, but I have to say that it's rarely bad in mono-colored decks anyway. The only case where I would rather prefer a swamp is with Crypt Ghast, but I can live with that.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Darksteel garrison protect your utility land and use as a removal
Staff of NiN always did a great job for me
Scale of chiss-goria and Tooth of chiss-goria might be too cute for multiplayer, but you can caught people by suprise with these.
Staff of Nin is already in my list, and it's good! The Chiss-Goria are, as you said, a little bit too cute: they don't do enough by themselves overall.
Darksteel Garrison is an interesting one. I saw that card a couple of times already when browsing the Gatherer for cards for Horobi and never tried it because I thought it was expansive to use (2+3) and not really versatile (I still have to pick a target if I'm the only one to control a creature, and that sucks). Now that I played more games with the deck, I noticed that some lands are highly targetted by Beast Within and other versatile removal. Whether it's Cabal Coffers, Arcane Lighthouse or just Urborg, it usually sets me back a little bit. With that said, what do you do when you equipped Cabal Coffers and the only creature on the battlefield is Horobi? You kill it because you need the mana? That's the kind of thing that I don't want to do. I really could get over the mana cost, but it would need to be a free activated ability instead of a triggered ability (something like Tap ~: Target creatures gets +1/+1. Activate this ability only if ~ is attached to a tapped land.) Written that way, I would definitely use it.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Something to make lands indestructible is still an interesting idea. I thought about Eldrazi Monument combined with Liquimetal Coating and Karn but the land is 0/0 and just dies... pretty sad ;p. Giving hexproof/indestructible to a land repeatedly would be a nice touch.
Kormus Bell with Eldrazi Monument and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth would work but that's a comboish version that kill all lands my opponents control with a single Touch of Darkness.
I can live with the occasional hate on my mana base, with Coffers I usually get at least one use out of it for some card advantage (Erebos, Increasing Ambition or any other expansive shenanigan) and then, when I'm ready to win, I can just reanimate it if it didn't get exiled. I have multiple targetting lands in the deck and usually people don't waste too much effort on Thawing Glaciers, High Market or Deserted Temple. The real targets are always Coffers, Arcane Lighthouse and sometimes Volrath's Stronghold and I normally get one use of all of these since they come into play untapped.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Solemn Simulacrum: I don't play it but it's good. It's card advantage at its best. I ended up Reanimate-ing my opponent's Solemn 3 times on turns 4-5-6 during a game and I won that game, because you know, mana helps and that's 6 cards not in your deck anymore (3 lands and 3 unknown card).
Moonlight Bargain: this card is really powerful. For 5 mana, you can draw 5 cards (and lose 2 life) at instant speed, but if you want to reanimate something, that's perfect too; it's Buried Alive on your top 5 cards of your library and Erebos for whatever you want in your hand (2 life per card). Did anyone ever played this card? How did it feel?
Shrouded Lore: I see this card in every other Horobi list but never played it. It gets back any card, including lands. I still prefer Yawgmoth's Will over it, it's probably better in 1v1 (less chances of getting your graveyard exiled) but it can also play politics in multiplayer (if you need something to deal with a specific threat on the battlefield); finally, it doesn't target any card in your graveyard.
Glaring Spotlight: yes, I'm looking at you Sigarda, Lazav and Uril. I would play this card IF it was working against Lightning Greaves too (it doesn't) and if it gave Indestructible instead of Unblockable (keep dreaming!).
Promise of Power: Another draw 5 for 5, sorcery speed this time but 5 life instead of 10. I prefer the versatility of Bargain, especially because it's instant speed. The Demon token here doesn't matter that much, especially at sorcery speed.
What are your thoughts?
I'm mostly considering Solemn and the Bargain.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.