So I've recently been testing out Seer's Sundial over Serum Tank for the repeatable card draw spot, and I've been surprised with its performance. While it moves up to the four spot and only can be activated via landfall, it takes one less mana per activation, and turns lands into use late game, as well as gaining additional value out of the land ramp that the sad robot and others provide. I'm wondering what others think about it, mainly to make sure I'm not crazy with this.
Late reply, but personally I find Serum Tank more abusable since it applies to any artifact coming into play and if I have ways to untap this guy on other people's turns, then I can just draw ALL the cards
Also, with how I play, I am usually tossing lands away once I am above 6 lands in play to Daretti's +2, which I think is more advantageous since I net more cards and don't need to spend any of my mana to get them. The Sundial is definitely an option for others to explore and use if they like it, again playstyle dictates this more than preceived card power is, but I don't think it is better than what I already have.
I've been playing with basically the same list on here for a month or so now. I have run into a few problems in multi-player:
1.) The minute I resolve Daretti I basically have a big target painted on me.
2.) Because of this, and because it can sometimes be hard to get early game blockers out, I nearly am never able to ultimate him
3.) The later the game runs, the more issues I have fending off attacks from multiple opponents
4.) My Draws seem to be fairly inconsistent. I either have a hand that gets Daretti on the board by turn two, or I have the worst hand imaginable (1 or two lands and no rocks). Mulling down only usually seems to make this worse
Now, I by no means consider myself an expert at this format, so it is totally possible (and more than likely) that I am playing the deck wrong. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
I've been playing with basically the same list on here for a month or so now. I have run into a few problems in multi-player:
1.) The minute I resolve Daretti I basically have a big target painted on me.
2.) Because of this, and because it can sometimes be hard to get early game blockers out, I nearly am never able to ultimate him
3.) The later the game runs, the more issues I have fending off attacks from multiple opponents
4.) My Draws seem to be fairly inconsistent. I either have a hand that gets Daretti on the board by turn two, or I have the worst hand imaginable (1 or two lands and no rocks). Mulling down only usually seems to make this worse
Now, I by no means consider myself an expert at this format, so it is totally possible (and more than likely) that I am playing the deck wrong. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
1) Don't resolve daretti unless you have something to do, every time you have enough mana you should NOT cast him. Use him to make a play.
2) You aren't supposed to aim to ultimate him, thats not his purpose
3) I personally play a more creature heavy build with mutliple board wipes, most others do this as well so I have never heard this being an issue. If you don't want to add more creatures get stax elements such as Winter Orb and Propaganda type effects (obviously you cannot use this).
4) I have never had this problem, with 38 land and multiple rocks I am very consistent
Every play group is different, so OPs does not nessecarily lend itself to the playgroup you have, nor does it mean its the most optimal build (it may be, but again that depends on 100 factors).
If you are having trouble I highly recommend you look around the multiplayer EDH forum and see what kind of decks suits you the best, load it up in some kind of program like cockatrice or MWS play and see how it draws and goldfish the first couple of turns. There are many good Daretti lists here.
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Hi I'm Infecter4life and ironically I only play GBx decks.
what sort of cheap stax or prison element can I use to stem aggro deck? I have just finish forming the deck, but I find my land consistency to be a problem. how many land is optimal? I am playing around 33 land. is that enough? board wipe, I am using starstorm, obliterate, N. disk and blasphemous act. is it enough or do I need to add more? is hellkite tyrant a must for quick win? I have mycosynth lattice and darksteel forge, slobad and soul of phyrexia to preserve my board. is it enough tutor I am using planar portal, ring of three wish and forgemaster and hoarding dragon, notsure if it is good enough. anyway to kill fast without lock down?
what sort of cheap stax or prison element can I use to stem aggro deck? I have just finish forming the deck, but I find my land consistency to be a problem. how many land is optimal? I am playing around 33 land. is that enough? board wipe, I am using starstorm, obliterate, N. disk and blasphemous act. is it enough or do I need to add more? is hellkite tyrant a must for quick win? I have mycosynth lattice and darksteel forge, slobad and soul of phyrexia to preserve my board. is it enough tutor I am using planar portal, ring of three wish and forgemaster and hoarding dragon, notsure if it is good enough. anyway to kill fast without lock down?
No 33 is way way too little, 38 is the minimum you should be running.
I run 35 lands and haven't ran into TOO much trouble with land drops.
My take is that you can always use Daretti to filter off surplus lands but if you don't have enough to function it hurts. 35 isn't that big of a step down from 37/38 that most people will play for normal decks but anytime you end up with land issues out of the gate it will hurt. Like I said though, there isnt that much of a difference but I would still try to slide in a few more lands personally.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Dumb question, how do I post my deck list like everyone else does? Is there a program or something?
Here is a really good card tag into that should help you out with that. We could try repeating most of what is said there but the easier way is to direct you there.
If you have any issues with that feel free to shoot me a private message and I can help you further if needed.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
what sort of cheap stax or prison element can I use to stem aggro deck? I have just finish forming the deck, but I find my land consistency to be a problem. how many land is optimal? I am playing around 33 land. is that enough? board wipe, I am using starstorm, obliterate, N. disk and blasphemous act. is it enough or do I need to add more? is hellkite tyrant a must for quick win? I have mycosynth lattice and darksteel forge, slobad and soul of phyrexia to preserve my board. is it enough tutor I am using planar portal, ring of three wish and forgemaster and hoarding dragon, notsure if it is good enough. anyway to kill fast without lock down?
A lot of people have given good feedback about playing Daretti, and I agree with all the points Infecter4life made. Looking at your questions, I would say 33 lands is a little low for my liking - I honestly will never go below 35 in any deck I make, regardless of CMC curve.
Hellkite Tyrant is very meta dependent, since if people run a lot of Clone cards and Bribery effects, he will hose you pretty fast.
I also agree you are running to much tutor cards, I would cut it down to only 2 total, since Daretti provides so much filter for the deck. My 2 of choice is Forgemaster, since it is easily repeatable and abusable, and Gamble, since it takes little investment to use. Note: I don't count Goblin Matron as a "tutor" since she is here to grab Goblin Welder, which has a tendency to cause this deck to go nuts if he gets in play and sticks for a couple turns.
I honestly haven't seen a Daretti Aggro deck, so I don't really know how to suggest a kill fast strategy... I would honestly go with the more wipes option and do what you can to ensure you are not overran. Silent Arbiter is a very good card to help stem aggro, so look to include it if you really need it.
tyrant's familiar he is new and interesting but I dont think he is actually that good of a card. I would cut him personally
Moggcatcher - I suspect that you are still a bit light on your goblin package to run this guy. I generally speaking want 4-5 targets to justify him because of the fact that he needs to tap to activate and it still requires mana as well. Squee isn't even that good to use with this guy since it puts him into play where he becomes vulnerable to exile removal. I think that you are alright utilizing Goblin Matron still but I suspect that Moggcatcher isn't quite good enough where you are.
bottle gnomes their effect is just a bit small in my mind to justify including them.
Your land count looks a bit low and your overall curve looks a little high.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
- I don't think you need to run Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and Caged Sun, in fact I would surmise to say that you shouldn't need any of these. Daretti is the tool to cheat big cost artifacts into play, so I wouldn't focus on mana doubling cards.
- Ruby Medalion doesn't help much in your list, so I would replace it with something that taps for mana instead.
- Platinum Emperion doesn't let your life change, but you still take damage technically. As far as I am aware, it doesn't stop the 21 Commander Damage lose condition, so I have not included it in any of my decks.
- Vedalken Orrery was a card I tested and did not find useful. Again, a lot of my deck involves Daretti and I can't take advantage of him on other player's turns. Considering your mana ramp package, maybe this card works better for you but I would consider cutting it if you are noticing you tap out a lot and don't draw many things you want to cast instantly.
- I don't think you need to run Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and Caged Sun, in fact I would surmise to say that you shouldn't need any of these. Daretti is the tool to cheat big cost artifacts into play, so I wouldn't focus on mana doubling cards.
It can be argued that by having large amounts of mana avalible you can cast the big artifacts that come to hand which means you can keep using Daretti's + ability instead of trying to cycle them and rez them. I find that I generally speaking when I activate Daretti its something like 70% of the time his +2 ability. I actually value what I am drawing a lot more than returning things in part because I try to cast the cards I want to have in play rather than cycle and rez.
It also comes down as a question of how much you are having your stuff blown up though too. The more you loose things the more rezing you will need to do.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
@ISB - I usually pick either more mana rocks or mana doublers. Using both together seems like overkill to me. Either direction will give you the mana to cast the big artifacts, so it really comes down to preference and how a meta reacts to the mana doublers.
I think it's important to have both rocks and doublers, cuz if other people start seeing you as the threat, Daretti is gonna start costing a lot of mana. I know this all too well. Lol.
maybe just not too many mana doubler. I tend to ally myself with red players using the mana doubler as a bargain ground. I normally try to not make myself a threat till my board is establish and let my opponent fight between themselves while I just try to preserve myself or have a disk out and warn them not to trifle with me or I will blow.
I think it's important to have both rocks and doublers, cuz if other people start seeing you as the threat, Daretti is gonna start costing a lot of mana. I know this all too well. Lol.
Honestly, once Daretti costs over 10 mana, I kinda stop using him. By then I should have enough going for me that I can win or I am shutdown so hard that there is not a point anymore lol...
After perusing some of the lists on here I am thinking of making the following changes:
+ 5 mountains
+ Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
+ Silent Arbiter
+ Anger
+ Ring of Three Wishes
+ All Is Dust
+ Bloodstained Mire
+ Wooded Foothills
+ Maze of Ith
+ Arid Mesa
+ Scalding Tarn
+ Voltaic Construct
+ Staff of Domination
+ Basalt Monolith
+ Feldon of the Third Path
+ Hoarding Dragon
As for what to remove, I am looking at the following:
- Pentavus (just never seems to perform)
- Hellkite Tyrant (never managed to resolve him and live to next turn)
- Darksteel Colossus (can't be cheated)
- Liquid Metal Coating (again always seems to underperform)
- Blood Moon
- Ruination (bringing in all is dust)
- Stranglehold (situational and makes plenty of enemies)
- Blinkmoth Urn
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I am going for a more competitive build, as my group actually doesn't get offended at infinite combos, etc.
people hate me for the clear board that I play. cards like obliterate, n. disk and such. the best is repeatable n. disk
Running massive wipes like that, and being known to do it, has always painted a target on any deck in my Meta. Not knowing your play group, I'd imagine if you changed your wipes so that they didn't nuke lands, you'd probably get less aggro from the table right off the back.
After perusing some of the lists on here I am thinking of making the following changes:
+ 5 mountains
+ Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
+ Silent Arbiter
+ Anger
+ Ring of Three Wishes
+ All Is Dust
+ Bloodstained Mire
+ Wooded Foothills
+ Maze of Ith
+ Arid Mesa
+ Scalding Tarn
+ Voltaic Construct
+ Staff of Domination
+ Basalt Monolith
+ Feldon of the Third Path
+ Hoarding Dragon
As for what to remove, I am looking at the following:
- Pentavus (just never seems to perform)
- Hellkite Tyrant (never managed to resolve him and live to next turn)
- Darksteel Colossus (can't be cheated)
- Liquid Metal Coating (again always seems to underperform)
- Blood Moon
- Ruination (bringing in all is dust)
- Stranglehold (situational and makes plenty of enemies)
- Blinkmoth Urn
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I am going for a more competitive build, as my group actually doesn't get offended at infinite combos, etc.
Looking at what you posted, are you planning on going to 38+ lands? If so, I would say that is a little high with the # of rocks you run and the fact Daretti comes in pretty easily (at least for me) on T3 with the rocks.
I also like a lot of your adds, I would also be running the Zendikar/Khans Fetch lands in my deck if I had multiples of them (work in progress, right now I just have one copy of each and 5+ decks lol...). The only one I am skeptical on is Feldon of the Third Path and Hoarding Dragon - Feldon to me needs more creatures and they need to be in the yard, which Daretti does, but I'd rather recur those cards out indefinitely instead of making a copy for one turn. The Dragon I have never been a fan of because of the rampant amount of exile effects I deal with - a Path to Exile ruins the tutor he provided. If you had more creature sac, I would be more high on him and also run him in my list, but that strategy doesn't go well with the deck IMO.
For your cards to gut, I am sad to hear Liquimetal Coating has done nothing for you. I find it has helped me a lot in enabling Daretti's -2 via lands, as well as popping other people's special lands via Karn, Silver Golem.
@ISB - I usually pick either more mana rocks or mana doublers. Using both together seems like overkill to me. Either direction will give you the mana to cast the big artifacts, so it really comes down to preference and how a meta reacts to the mana doublers.
@charles - I look forward to seeing your edits
I have always considered mana stones vs doublers a situational thing. For instance stones like Gilded Lotus can provide a jump in mana the turn they drop but generally speaking in a mono colored deck they are inferior to a doubler because later in the game and the next turn even the mana doubler will out produce it. Doublers in a deck like this are really nice because opponents have a hard time stopping them due to all of the recursion as well so the normal pitfall of a mana doubler which is generally that they are heavily targeted is diminished. I think that fast ramp is important in a deck like this regardless of if you are running mana doublers because you still want to achieve an early Daretti regardless.
I can see your argument on mana stones but I think regardless you need the early mana stones but its more of a situation of bigger mana stones vs doublers and in this case I see sort of overwhelming circumstances to utilize mana doublers over bigger stones. I suppose it helps as well owning a Gauntlet of Might too.
I think it's important to have both rocks and doublers, cuz if other people start seeing you as the threat, Daretti is gonna start costing a lot of mana. I know this all too well. Lol.
I've had to spend 18 to cast him before as he gets hated out quite a bit after people have seen what he's done.
It is interesting to see differences in playstyles and metas. I dont think I have ever spent more than 6 mana playing Daretti out. I play my list fairly defensive for him though. The difference for me is that my meta is heavier on creature removal and tends to work on having explosive kills so we dont see as much random creature swinging tactics and we see more tactics that take people out in one turn sort of stuff.
After perusing some of the lists on here I am thinking of making the following changes:
+ 5 mountains
+ Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
+ Silent Arbiter
+ Anger
+ Ring of Three Wishes
+ All Is Dust
+ Bloodstained Mire
+ Wooded Foothills
+ Maze of Ith
+ Arid Mesa
+ Scalding Tarn
+ Voltaic Construct
+ Staff of Domination
+ Basalt Monolith
+ Feldon of the Third Path
+ Hoarding Dragon
As for what to remove, I am looking at the following:
- Pentavus (just never seems to perform)
- Hellkite Tyrant (never managed to resolve him and live to next turn)
- Darksteel Colossus (can't be cheated)
- Liquid Metal Coating (again always seems to underperform)
- Blood Moon
- Ruination (bringing in all is dust)
- Stranglehold (situational and makes plenty of enemies)
- Blinkmoth Urn
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I am going for a more competitive build, as my group actually doesn't get offended at infinite combos, etc.
Personally I would also look at cutting Arcbound Crusher and Arcbound Reclaimer. I feel like you have enough artifact recursion that the reclaimer isnt that good of an option. I don't really see much appeal to the Arcbound Crusher either so perhaps I am missing something but it seems like its not really needed. Strict beaters are most of the time not very good.
Mycosynth Lattice you arent running Vandalblast and probably Shattering Spree too. If you are going to run Lattice you really need to be running probably both of these. I see the disk in list but its a three card combo to set up the Darksteel Forge so I would suggest adding the other two enemy sweepers.
Serum Tank its still really bad draw unfortunately.
Tawnos's Coffin It unfortunately costs a lot more mana to use this thing than it should in my opinion. I like the versatility of it but it really should have cost less to use. I have always had a hard time including it due to that.
Mana Doublers + Expensive Mana stones. Personally I would consider adding Gauntlet of Power over one of the 4-5 mana mana stones. I happen to be in favor of using some doublers though. I feel like Gauntlet of Power / Caged Sun offer a lot more than Gilded Lotus does though.
Artifact untapping - I feel like you are focusing a bit hard on your artifact untappers. The mana stones can be nice to untap but I feel like you might have more of them than needed really.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Also, with how I play, I am usually tossing lands away once I am above 6 lands in play to Daretti's +2, which I think is more advantageous since I net more cards and don't need to spend any of my mana to get them. The Sundial is definitely an option for others to explore and use if they like it, again playstyle dictates this more than preceived card power is, but I don't think it is better than what I already have.
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
1.) The minute I resolve Daretti I basically have a big target painted on me.
2.) Because of this, and because it can sometimes be hard to get early game blockers out, I nearly am never able to ultimate him
3.) The later the game runs, the more issues I have fending off attacks from multiple opponents
4.) My Draws seem to be fairly inconsistent. I either have a hand that gets Daretti on the board by turn two, or I have the worst hand imaginable (1 or two lands and no rocks). Mulling down only usually seems to make this worse
Now, I by no means consider myself an expert at this format, so it is totally possible (and more than likely) that I am playing the deck wrong. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
1) Don't resolve daretti unless you have something to do, every time you have enough mana you should NOT cast him. Use him to make a play.
2) You aren't supposed to aim to ultimate him, thats not his purpose
3) I personally play a more creature heavy build with mutliple board wipes, most others do this as well so I have never heard this being an issue. If you don't want to add more creatures get stax elements such as Winter Orb and Propaganda type effects (obviously you cannot use this).
4) I have never had this problem, with 38 land and multiple rocks I am very consistent
Every play group is different, so OPs does not nessecarily lend itself to the playgroup you have, nor does it mean its the most optimal build (it may be, but again that depends on 100 factors).
If you are having trouble I highly recommend you look around the multiplayer EDH forum and see what kind of decks suits you the best, load it up in some kind of program like cockatrice or MWS play and see how it draws and goldfish the first couple of turns. There are many good Daretti lists here.
No 33 is way way too little, 38 is the minimum you should be running.
Stax elements you can include:
More board wipes:
All is Dust
Get rid of planar portal.
I recommend you post your decklist in this forum and ask for help.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
My take is that you can always use Daretti to filter off surplus lands but if you don't have enough to function it hurts. 35 isn't that big of a step down from 37/38 that most people will play for normal decks but anytime you end up with land issues out of the gate it will hurt. Like I said though, there isnt that much of a difference but I would still try to slide in a few more lands personally.
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[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Here is a really good card tag into that should help you out with that. We could try repeating most of what is said there but the easier way is to direct you there.
If you have any issues with that feel free to shoot me a private message and I can help you further if needed.
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Hellkite Tyrant is very meta dependent, since if people run a lot of Clone cards and Bribery effects, he will hose you pretty fast.
I also agree you are running to much tutor cards, I would cut it down to only 2 total, since Daretti provides so much filter for the deck. My 2 of choice is Forgemaster, since it is easily repeatable and abusable, and Gamble, since it takes little investment to use. Note: I don't count Goblin Matron as a "tutor" since she is here to grab Goblin Welder, which has a tendency to cause this deck to go nuts if he gets in play and sticks for a couple turns.
I honestly haven't seen a Daretti Aggro deck, so I don't really know how to suggest a kill fast strategy... I would honestly go with the more wipes option and do what you can to ensure you are not overran. Silent Arbiter is a very good card to help stem aggro, so look to include it if you really need it.
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
1x tyrant's familiar
1x hoard-smelter dragon
1x hoarding dragon
1x faithless looting
1x anger
1x gamble
1x chaos warp
1x obliterate
1x goblin welder
1x slobad, goblin tinkerer
1x squee, goblin nabob
1x goblin matron
1x moggcatcher
1x starstorm
1x vandalblast
1x blasphemous act
1x scrap mastery
1x liquimetal coating
1x spine of ish sah
1x ichor wellspring
1x lightning greaves
1x bottle gnomes
1x hammer of purphoros
1x helm of possession
1x mindslaver
1x vedalken orrery
1x mycosynth lattice
1x nevinyrral's disk
1x darksteel forge
1x planar portal
1x kuldotha forgemaster
1x ring of three wishes
1x staff of nin
1x mind's eye
1x memory jar
1x staff of domination
1x trading post
1x steel hellkite
1x duplicant
1x wurmcoil engine
1x bosh, iron golem
1x platinum emperion
1x karn, silver golem
1x scuttling doom engine
1x pentavus
1x myr battlesphere
1x soul of new phyrexia
1x star compass
1x wayfarer's bauble
1x unstable obelisk
1x basalt monolith
1x ruby medallion
1x fire diamond
1x mana vault
1x expedition map
1x mind stone
1x everflowing chalice
1x sol ring
1x mycosynth wellspring
1x solemn simulacrum
1x burnished hart
1x guilded lotus
1x caged sun
1x gauntlet of power
1x extraplanar lens
24x mountain
1x great furnace
1x darkstell citadel
1x buried ruin
1x reliquary tower
1x temple of the false god
1x phrexia's core
1x ghost quarter
1x strip mine
1x thespian's stage
i am not sure what to cut for more land and also is there any cards that are not so good. please advise.
tyrant's familiar he is new and interesting but I dont think he is actually that good of a card. I would cut him personally
Moggcatcher - I suspect that you are still a bit light on your goblin package to run this guy. I generally speaking want 4-5 targets to justify him because of the fact that he needs to tap to activate and it still requires mana as well. Squee isn't even that good to use with this guy since it puts him into play where he becomes vulnerable to exile removal. I think that you are alright utilizing Goblin Matron still but I suspect that Moggcatcher isn't quite good enough where you are.
bottle gnomes their effect is just a bit small in my mind to justify including them.
Your land count looks a bit low and your overall curve looks a little high.
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[Modern] Allies
- I don't think you need to run Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and Caged Sun, in fact I would surmise to say that you shouldn't need any of these. Daretti is the tool to cheat big cost artifacts into play, so I wouldn't focus on mana doubling cards.
- Ruby Medalion doesn't help much in your list, so I would replace it with something that taps for mana instead.
- Platinum Emperion doesn't let your life change, but you still take damage technically. As far as I am aware, it doesn't stop the 21 Commander Damage lose condition, so I have not included it in any of my decks.
- Vedalken Orrery was a card I tested and did not find useful. Again, a lot of my deck involves Daretti and I can't take advantage of him on other player's turns. Considering your mana ramp package, maybe this card works better for you but I would consider cutting it if you are noticing you tap out a lot and don't draw many things you want to cast instantly.
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
It can be argued that by having large amounts of mana avalible you can cast the big artifacts that come to hand which means you can keep using Daretti's + ability instead of trying to cycle them and rez them. I find that I generally speaking when I activate Daretti its something like 70% of the time his +2 ability. I actually value what I am drawing a lot more than returning things in part because I try to cast the cards I want to have in play rather than cycle and rez.
It also comes down as a question of how much you are having your stuff blown up though too. The more you loose things the more rezing you will need to do.
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[Modern] Allies
@charles - I look forward to seeing your edits
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
Creatures (21)
1 Arcbound Crusher
1 Arcbound Reclaimer
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Duplicant
1 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Welder
1 Hellkite Igniter
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Metalworker
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Pentavus
1 Scarecrone
1 Scuttling Doom Engine
1 Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Spells (12)
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Blood Moon
1 Chaos Warp
1 Faithless Looting
1 Gamble
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ruination
1 Scrap Mastery
1 Stranglehold
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Vandalblast
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Blinkmoth Urn
1 Clock of Omens
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Gauntlet of Might
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Memory Jar
1 Mindslaver
1 Mirrorworks
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Serum Tank
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Tawnos's Coffin
1 Torpor Orb
1 Trading Post
1 Ugin's Nexus
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Voltaic Key
Mana Rocks (10)
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Fire Diamond
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Mox Opal
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Worn Powerstone
17 Mountain
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Great Furnace
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Kher Keep
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Terrain Generator
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
After perusing some of the lists on here I am thinking of making the following changes:
+ 5 mountains
+ Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
+ Silent Arbiter
+ Anger
+ Ring of Three Wishes
+ All Is Dust
+ Bloodstained Mire
+ Wooded Foothills
+ Maze of Ith
+ Arid Mesa
+ Scalding Tarn
+ Voltaic Construct
+ Staff of Domination
+ Basalt Monolith
+ Feldon of the Third Path
+ Hoarding Dragon
As for what to remove, I am looking at the following:
- Pentavus (just never seems to perform)
- Hellkite Tyrant (never managed to resolve him and live to next turn)
- Darksteel Colossus (can't be cheated)
- Liquid Metal Coating (again always seems to underperform)
- Blood Moon
- Ruination (bringing in all is dust)
- Stranglehold (situational and makes plenty of enemies)
- Blinkmoth Urn
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I am going for a more competitive build, as my group actually doesn't get offended at infinite combos, etc.
Looking at what you posted, are you planning on going to 38+ lands? If so, I would say that is a little high with the # of rocks you run and the fact Daretti comes in pretty easily (at least for me) on T3 with the rocks.
I also like a lot of your adds, I would also be running the Zendikar/Khans Fetch lands in my deck if I had multiples of them (work in progress, right now I just have one copy of each and 5+ decks lol...). The only one I am skeptical on is Feldon of the Third Path and Hoarding Dragon - Feldon to me needs more creatures and they need to be in the yard, which Daretti does, but I'd rather recur those cards out indefinitely instead of making a copy for one turn. The Dragon I have never been a fan of because of the rampant amount of exile effects I deal with - a Path to Exile ruins the tutor he provided. If you had more creature sac, I would be more high on him and also run him in my list, but that strategy doesn't go well with the deck IMO.
For your cards to gut, I am sad to hear Liquimetal Coating has done nothing for you. I find it has helped me a lot in enabling Daretti's -2 via lands, as well as popping other people's special lands via Karn, Silver Golem.
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
I have always considered mana stones vs doublers a situational thing. For instance stones like Gilded Lotus can provide a jump in mana the turn they drop but generally speaking in a mono colored deck they are inferior to a doubler because later in the game and the next turn even the mana doubler will out produce it. Doublers in a deck like this are really nice because opponents have a hard time stopping them due to all of the recursion as well so the normal pitfall of a mana doubler which is generally that they are heavily targeted is diminished. I think that fast ramp is important in a deck like this regardless of if you are running mana doublers because you still want to achieve an early Daretti regardless.
I can see your argument on mana stones but I think regardless you need the early mana stones but its more of a situation of bigger mana stones vs doublers and in this case I see sort of overwhelming circumstances to utilize mana doublers over bigger stones. I suppose it helps as well owning a Gauntlet of Might too.
It is interesting to see differences in playstyles and metas. I dont think I have ever spent more than 6 mana playing Daretti out. I play my list fairly defensive for him though. The difference for me is that my meta is heavier on creature removal and tends to work on having explosive kills so we dont see as much random creature swinging tactics and we see more tactics that take people out in one turn sort of stuff.
Personally I would also look at cutting Arcbound Crusher and Arcbound Reclaimer. I feel like you have enough artifact recursion that the reclaimer isnt that good of an option. I don't really see much appeal to the Arcbound Crusher either so perhaps I am missing something but it seems like its not really needed. Strict beaters are most of the time not very good.
Tormenting Voice could probably become Reforge the Soul or Mindless Automaton if you want as well. Small hand moving cards are alright but Daretti can do that on his own
Mycosynth Lattice you arent running Vandalblast and probably Shattering Spree too. If you are going to run Lattice you really need to be running probably both of these. I see the disk in list but its a three card combo to set up the Darksteel Forge so I would suggest adding the other two enemy sweepers.
Serum Tank its still really bad draw unfortunately.
Tawnos's Coffin It unfortunately costs a lot more mana to use this thing than it should in my opinion. I like the versatility of it but it really should have cost less to use. I have always had a hard time including it due to that.
Mana Doublers + Expensive Mana stones. Personally I would consider adding Gauntlet of Power over one of the 4-5 mana mana stones. I happen to be in favor of using some doublers though. I feel like Gauntlet of Power / Caged Sun offer a lot more than Gilded Lotus does though.
Artifact untapping - I feel like you are focusing a bit hard on your artifact untappers. The mana stones can be nice to untap but I feel like you might have more of them than needed really.
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[Modern] Allies