The problem with playing cards like Terrarion is that they don't really do a lot other then replace themselves. They don't advance the board state in a meaningful way, and while it's nice that they replace themselves, we should have the goal of playing cards that do better then that. While it's true that we can use Daretti's second ability to sac into a beat stick, I prefer to use mana rocks as the sac folder, rather then cards that are meant to be sacked.
I think I like Unstable Obelisk better then Spine of Ish Sah. Given they both hold very stable spots in my deck, but I always feel somewhat sad when Spine gets sent into my hand from the graveyard, plus the Obelisk in not a dead draw early game like Spine is. Maybe I'm undervaluing Spine cause you can discard it for use later, but it's nice to know you always have a way to remove a card when Unstable Obelisk is on the board.
my personal taste for the card is that it plays out as a rattlesnake more than just a removal source. When I play EDH, I hate playing with rattlesnake cards because they can be game slowing and also draw a lot of aggro in my direction, which I never like to do preemptively.
What do you mean when you say "it plays out like a rattlesnake"? I have never heard the phrase before.
The problem with playing cards like Terrarion is that they don't really do a lot other then replace themselves. They don't advance the board state in a meaningful way, and while it's nice that they replace themselves, we should have the goal of playing cards that do better then that. While it's true that we can use Daretti's second ability to sac into a beat stick, I prefer to use mana rocks as the sac folder, rather then cards that are meant to be sacked.
I think I like Unstable Obelisk better then Spine of Ish Sah. Given they both hold very stable spots in my deck, but I always feel somewhat sad when Spine gets sent into my hand from the graveyard, plus the Obelisk in not a dead draw early game like Spine is. Maybe I'm undervaluing Spine cause you can discard it for use later, but it's nice to know you always have a way to remove a card when Unstable Obelisk is on the board.
my personal taste for the card is that it plays out as a rattlesnake more than just a removal source. When I play EDH, I hate playing with rattlesnake cards because they can be game slowing and also draw a lot of aggro in my direction, which I never like to do preemptively.
What do you mean when you say "it plays out like a rattlesnake"? I have never heard the phrase before.
A "Rattlesnake card" is a card that comes into play and most likely can't be used right away, good example is Nevinyrral's Disk . In the case of Unstable Obelisk, you have a permanent removal spell that everyone knows about. Generally this makes people hold back their bombs, and start trying to kill/mess with you in order to waste that removal on something else that they don't care about.
I generally don't like to be in situations where I get attacked for "Rattlesnake" reasons, thus I don't play with those cards often. In this deck, I have 3 ways to untap artifacts, so that is why I play with the Disk, because I usually play it when I can untap it and use it right away.
I am just short on spots in my deck. My deck is more combo focused. I thought that the card draw that those type of cards provided was good enough to include because they drew out my combos after I sacrificed them. I don't really know what else to put in. I have all of the mana rocks you have except for mox opal it just doesn't seem like a large enough effect for a card slot.
How many sack-able artifacts are you running? It may be that you just have cut to many artifacts that you want to sac, or you are over using the -2 early in the game, which leaves you with very little to sac late game. Another thing that may be happening is that you went too far into the combo route, which can leave you more vulnerable to artifact hate and counter spells then the standard Daretti deck. If you want to, you can post your own decklist and link it here so we can make more specialized recommendations, it's just hard to say what's right for your deck with so limited information.
After evaluating my deck again I think your right. I was trying to oversell on the combos. I am reducing the number to just three or four. I haven't posted my deck yet because I want to finalize it a bit more before I do. Currently the deck has all of the infinite artifact mana combos that are two or three cards. Then I have beatstick reanimation as a backup plan.
The trick with infinite mana artifact stuff is doing something with it. I will look over your list when you get a chance to post it, but for now like Doingthebest I can't really suggest much without seeing what you're trying to do =/
This is my take on Daretti. It has a few more dragons then usual, but thats ok, they are thematic. Dragons, a couple goblins and the hoard (artifacts).
In don't want any infinite combos/mana or super competitive stuff. Just a fun deck to throw around a kitchen table.
My question is I guess, is there any glaring mistakes or something I'm missing or haven't thought of.
A couple replacements that were talked about earlier in the thread is Hammer of Purphoros in for Anger, and perhaps Crawlspace might not be the best for protecting Daretti, especially with the amount of creatures you are running, it may hurt you more then help you.
A couple replacements that were talked about earlier in the thread is Hammer of Purphoros in for Anger, and perhaps Crawlspace might not be the best for protecting Daretti, especially with the amount of creatures you are running, it may hurt you more then help you.
I'd definitely cut Crawlspace since you run Silent Arbiter. I am also skeptical of how Dualcaster Mage works for you, since you don't seem to have many spells worth copying. I also personally dislike Magmaquake with Daretti as your commander.
Ruby Medallion also doesn't provide much benefit, I'd rather sub it out for another mana rock personally. I am also not a big fan of Bosh, Iron Golem and with your low count of artifacts I feel the same for your deck.
Have you guys seen the new ugin. He is soo good! Defiantly runing him in my build.
I could see myself running him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is ran primarily as a budget option to Karn Liberated in most Daretti decks. I think most Daretti decks don't need a second huge costed planeswalker, but maybe in a meta with a lot of hard to kill enchantments I could be proven wrong. I do think he's going to be a mainstay in Karn, Silver Golem and Bosh decks because his -X ability would be a one sided board wipe when you don't have any colored permanents.
Ugin will for SURE go in my deck, he is an awesome source of removal with his -X ability. The # of colored permanents is kinda low in the deck, so I don't find that too bad for the deck and if I ever could get his ultimate off, it would be for some AWESOME times
Ugin will for SURE go in my deck, he is an awesome source of removal with his -X ability. The # of colored permanents is kinda low in the deck, so I don't find that too bad for the deck and if I ever could get his ultimate off, it would be for some AWESOME times
Are you planning on running him as an replacement to Karn Liberated, or run two high mana priced planeswalkers?
I'd definitely cut Crawlspace since you run Silent Arbiter. I am also skeptical of how Dualcaster Mage works for you, since you don't seem to have many spells worth copying. I also personally dislike Magmaquake with Daretti as your commander.
Ruby Medallion also doesn't provide much benefit, I'd rather sub it out for another mana rock personally. I am also not a big fan of Bosh, Iron Golemand with your low count of artifacts I feel the same for your deck.
Wow man, kinda harsh don't ya think?
Bosh is just a "placeholder" until Karn arrives, but what do you suggest as replacements for the others and for more artifacts?
I want it to still be casual/fun and not extremely competitive... But I still want it to hold true to the Daretti reputation and strength.
Are you planning on running him as an replacement to Karn Liberated, or run two high mana priced planeswalkers?
I'd run the two high mana planeswalkers - they both would provide huge benefits to the deck. Ugin is just an impressive permanent wipe that could really help this deck out a lot.
I'd definitely cut Crawlspace since you run Silent Arbiter. I am also skeptical of how Dualcaster Mage works for you, since you don't seem to have many spells worth copying. I also personally dislike Magmaquake with Daretti as your commander.
Ruby Medallion also doesn't provide much benefit, I'd rather sub it out for another mana rock personally. I am also not a big fan of Bosh, Iron Golemand with your low count of artifacts I feel the same for your deck.
That wasn't intended to be harsh, so I am sorry if you felt it was too harsh it was an observation. It was simply me saying I feel Bosh decks need to be "all-in" on artifacts and that I just don't like the card as one of the 99 because he takes a lot of mana to cast and even do his sacrifice. I had a limited amount of time so I made a fast post originally, but my suggestions would be to cut and include the following:
I'd also try to make room for Clock of Omens because it enables other broken things. Darksteel Forge is also pro in this deck, I'd make room for it somewhere as well.
Mirrorworks: In a lot of artifact decks, this card can be considered difficult to abuse because it takes that extra 2 when you are casting artifacts. However with this deck, considering that it cheats most of the artifacts into play, Mirrorworks just becomes godlike. Want to know a ridiculous play to do with it? Copy a Ugin's Nexus with it, when the state-based Legend Rule kicks in, use the displacement effect of the Token to take an extra turn and still have the original Nexus in play to use whenever you want. Enjoy the shenanigans!
Sorry this quote is from the original poster. My phone doesn't handle copying all the text from the full post very well.
How does the extra turn work?
Wouldn't either the original or copy stop the extra turn?
I could see Legend Rule one of them and sacrifice the other to get two extra turns...
Man, I had some great games yesterday. Lattice is such a beast in this deck. Vandalblast to clear everyone's board, then Karn, Silvet Golem to keep them off lands.
Second game I played I locked everyone out with Blood Moon
This deck is such a beast; more so than I ever imagined.
Mirrorworks: In a lot of artifact decks, this card can be considered difficult to abuse because it takes that extra 2 when you are casting artifacts. However with this deck, considering that it cheats most of the artifacts into play, Mirrorworks just becomes godlike. Want to know a ridiculous play to do with it? Copy a Ugin's Nexus with it, when the state-based Legend Rule kicks in, use the displacement effect of the Token to take an extra turn and still have the original Nexus in play to use whenever you want. Enjoy the shenanigans!
Sorry this quote is from the original poster. My phone doesn't handle copying all the text from the full post very well.
How does the extra turn work?
Wouldn't either the original or copy stop the extra turn?
I could see Legend Rule one of them and sacrifice the other to get two extra turns...
Wow, totally been mis-playing that card for a bit then LOL! I need to read cards closer.... Thanks for the point out, I'll edit accordingly!
Man, I had some great games yesterday. Lattice is such a beast in this deck. Vandalblast to clear everyone's board, then Karn, Silvet Golem to keep them off lands.
Second game I played I locked everyone out with Blood Moon
This deck is such a beast; more so than I ever imagined.
Honestly, Daretti has made mono-R into a competitive color now because of how much Daretti deals with red's weaknesses. I have loved this deck and will continue to improve it as nut artifacts come out
Regarding Ugin's Nexus, why not put it on a Prototype Portal with a sac engine in tow? That's something I like to do, even if its not as competitive as it should be lol
Daretti has basically pushed Kaalia aside for me. Haven't had this many nut games until I picked him up.
As far as Mirrorworks/Ugin's Nexus goes, when SBEs get checked, one nexus goes away, giving you the extra turn. You need to sac the other one before you end your turn, then you get two extra turns. Otherwise, you get none.
Regarding Ugin's Nexus, why not put it on a Prototype Portal with a sac engine in tow? That's something I like to do, even if its not as competitive as it should be lol
~Lil Kalki
Primarily because that can lead to an infinite combo, which is against my league's rules. Also we have a max # of extra turns rule, so that also makes it less ideal. Prototype Portal is an amazing card, I just don't know what I would cut to make it work in my deck.
Daretti has basically pushed Kaalia aside for me. Haven't had this many nut games until I picked him up.
As far as Mirrorworks/Ugin's Nexus goes, when SBEs get checked, one nexus goes away, giving you the extra turn. You need to sac the other one before you end your turn, then you get two extra turns. Otherwise, you get none.
Yeah, I looked that up and edited the content of the post to reflect that. I honestly thought (without obviously reading) that the card prevented opponents like Stranglehold does.
Interesting Daretti cards no one has mentioned
- Mirror Universe I like as a backdoor out to pretty much everything - Infinite life? Don't mind if I do.
- Grimoire of the Dead My deck has a gaggle of board wipes so the graveyards are always full of stuff, it's "downside" is a internal discard outlet that helps the welding plan & if you're playing black you need to pay like 8 mana for the same effect, seems like a good deal.
- Monkey Cage I'm playing the rattlesnake/"don't attack me or look over here while I build up to Daretti ult" version of this deck (briefly discussed earlier in the thread) and this card often helps stall out long enough to get the Daretti emblem online. With the emblem it's more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
- More artifact based removal/disruption - Meekstone, Pit Trap, Ensnaring Bridge, Oblivion Stone, Coercive Portal, Disk, Brittle Effigy (which was already mentioned & I'm not 100% I like better than Duplicant but the instant speed/low casting cost is nice plus ol' dupey is already in my other deck) Perilous Vault & Eye of Doom are all things that do a good job of holding down the fort. Note that these all get a zillion times better (other than the vault which exiles) with an indestructible enabler like Darksteel Forge or Soul of New Phyrexia or even Welding Jar which I also run.
Interesting Daretti cards no one has mentioned
- Mirror Universe I like as a backdoor out to pretty much everything - Infinite life? Don't mind if I do.
- Grimoire of the Dead My deck has a gaggle of board wipes so the graveyards are always full of stuff, it's "downside" is a internal discard outlet that helps the welding plan & if you're playing black you need to pay like 8 mana for the same effect, seems like a good deal.
- Monkey Cage I'm playing the rattlesnake/"don't attack me or look over here while I build up to Daretti ult" version of this deck (briefly discussed earlier in the thread) and this card often helps stall out long enough to get the Daretti emblem online. With the emblem it's more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
- More artifact based removal/disruption - Meekstone, Pit Trap, Ensnaring Bridge, Oblivion Stone, Coercive Portal, Disk, Brittle Effigy (which was already mentioned & I'm not 100% I like better than Duplicant but the instant speed/low casting cost is nice plus ol' dupey is already in my other deck) Perilous Vault & Eye of Doom are all things that do a good job of holding down the fort. Note that these all get a zillion times better (other than the vault which exiles) with an indestructible enabler like Darksteel Forge or Soul of New Phyrexia or even Welding Jar which I also run.
Hmmm... interesting cards! My first thoughts are:
Mirror Universe wouldn't really work with my deck/meta because no one goes insane life. The only value it would have is to just act as lifegain, but Wurmcoil Engine already fills that role. However I would definitely utilize the card if life gain becomes more common.
Grimoire of the Dead takes a little too long to setup without the proliferate mechanic supporting it. If I had a proliferate theme, I would definitely go with it.
Monkey Cage is a funny card right there, can't say anything bad about it lol. I'll just add that to my funny card list hahaha
In regards to your list of cards, these all fall into the Stax/"Slow Game" plan that I just didn't go down with my deck, I am all about trying to aggro out good artifacts in a speedy manner. Of the cards you mentioned, Eye of Doom could see a spot in my deck, but it could screw me more than my opponents if they choose something I control...
What do you mean when you say "it plays out like a rattlesnake"? I have never heard the phrase before.
A "Rattlesnake card" is a card that comes into play and most likely can't be used right away, good example is Nevinyrral's Disk . In the case of Unstable Obelisk, you have a permanent removal spell that everyone knows about. Generally this makes people hold back their bombs, and start trying to kill/mess with you in order to waste that removal on something else that they don't care about.
I generally don't like to be in situations where I get attacked for "Rattlesnake" reasons, thus I don't play with those cards often. In this deck, I have 3 ways to untap artifacts, so that is why I play with the Disk, because I usually play it when I can untap it and use it right away.
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How many sack-able artifacts are you running? It may be that you just have cut to many artifacts that you want to sac, or you are over using the -2 early in the game, which leaves you with very little to sac late game. Another thing that may be happening is that you went too far into the combo route, which can leave you more vulnerable to artifact hate and counter spells then the standard Daretti deck. If you want to, you can post your own decklist and link it here so we can make more specialized recommendations, it's just hard to say what's right for your deck with so limited information.
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In don't want any infinite combos/mana or super competitive stuff. Just a fun deck to throw around a kitchen table.
My question is I guess, is there any glaring mistakes or something I'm missing or haven't thought of.
What's your guys take on my build?
1x Daretti, Scrap Savant
Creatures: 28
1x Anger
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Bosh, Iron Golem
1x Burnished Hart
1x Dualcaster Mage
1x Feldon of the Third Path
1x Goblin Welder
1x Hellkite Igniter
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1x Junk Diver
1x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Myr Retriever
1x Myr Sire
1x Palladium Myr
1x Pentavus
1x Pilgrim's Eye
1x Scuttling Doom Engine
1x Shimmer Myr
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Soul of New Phyrexia
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Tyrant's Familiar
1x Urabrask the Hidden
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Caged Sun
1x Crawlspace
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Fire Diamond
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Mind Stone
1x Mindslaver
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Mycosynth Wellspring
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Ruby Medallion
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Trading Post
1x Unstable Obelisk
1x Unwinding Clock
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
Instants: 4
1x Chaos Warp
1x Magmaquake
1x Starstorm
1x Wild Ricochet
1x All Is Dust
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Faithless Looting
1x Gamble
1x Molten Disaster
1x Scrap Mastery
1x Tormenting Voice
1x Trash for Treasure
1x Vandalblast
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Wild Guess
Lands: 35
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Arcane Lighthouse
1x Buried Ruin
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Forgotten Cave
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Great Furnace
25x Mountain
1x Phyrexia's Core
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Temple of the False God
return to Dominaria!![/URL]
Ruby Medallion also doesn't provide much benefit, I'd rather sub it out for another mana rock personally. I am also not a big fan of Bosh, Iron Golem and with your low count of artifacts I feel the same for your deck.
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I could see myself running him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is ran primarily as a budget option to Karn Liberated in most Daretti decks. I think most Daretti decks don't need a second huge costed planeswalker, but maybe in a meta with a lot of hard to kill enchantments I could be proven wrong. I do think he's going to be a mainstay in Karn, Silver Golem and Bosh decks because his -X ability would be a one sided board wipe when you don't have any colored permanents.
That's the wrong card, this is the right one.
http://media.wizards.com/2014/ujehvsbfrf153/en_w54r4t295i.png
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Are you planning on running him as an replacement to Karn Liberated, or run two high mana priced planeswalkers?
Wow man, kinda harsh don't ya think?
Bosh is just a "placeholder" until Karn arrives, but what do you suggest as replacements for the others and for more artifacts?
I want it to still be casual/fun and not extremely competitive... But I still want it to hold true to the Daretti reputation and strength.
return to Dominaria!![/URL]
That wasn't intended to be harsh, so I am sorry if you felt it was too harsh it was an observation. It was simply me saying I feel Bosh decks need to be "all-in" on artifacts and that I just don't like the card as one of the 99 because he takes a lot of mana to cast and even do his sacrifice. I had a limited amount of time so I made a fast post originally, but my suggestions would be to cut and include the following:
Dualcaster Mage out for Goblin Matron (To get Welder and Slobad easier)
Magmaquake out for Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer (Really good, you should include)
Ruby Medallion out for Fellwar Stone (or any other 2 CMC mana rock)
Bosh, Iron Golem out for Voltaic Key (Super great for mana rocks and activated artifacts)
I'd also try to make room for Clock of Omens because it enables other broken things. Darksteel Forge is also pro in this deck, I'd make room for it somewhere as well.
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1x Daretti, Scrap Savant
Creatures: (7)
1x Anger
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Goblin Matron
1x Goblin Welder
1x Hellkite Igniter
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Artifact Creatures: (19)
1x Burnished Hart
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Duplicant
1x Junk Diver
1x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Metalworker
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Myr Retriever
1x Myr Sire
1x Palladium Myr
1x Pentavus
1x Pilgrim's Eye
1x Scuttling Doom Engine
1x Shimmer Myr
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Soul of New Phyrexia
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Caged Sun
1x Crawlspace
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Grafted Exoskeleton
1x Grim Monolith
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Memory Jar
1x Mind Stone
1x Mindslaver
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Mycosynth Wellspring
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Ruby Medallion
1x Sculpting Steel
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Trading Post
1x Unwinding Clock
1x Voltaic Key
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Chaos Warp
1x Starstorm
Sorceries: (10)
1x All Is Dust
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Faithless Looting
1x Gamble
1x Scrap Mastery
1x Tormenting Voice
1x Trash for Treasure
1x Vandalblast
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Wild Guess
Lands: (35)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Arcane Lighthouse
1x Buried Ruin
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Forgotten Cave
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Great Furnace
25x Mountain
1x Phyrexia's Core
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Temple of the False God
return to Dominaria!![/URL]
Sorry this quote is from the original poster. My phone doesn't handle copying all the text from the full post very well.
How does the extra turn work?
Wouldn't either the original or copy stop the extra turn?
I could see Legend Rule one of them and sacrifice the other to get two extra turns...
Second game I played I locked everyone out with Blood Moon
This deck is such a beast; more so than I ever imagined.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Honestly, Daretti has made mono-R into a competitive color now because of how much Daretti deals with red's weaknesses. I have loved this deck and will continue to improve it as nut artifacts come out
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~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
As far as Mirrorworks/Ugin's Nexus goes, when SBEs get checked, one nexus goes away, giving you the extra turn. You need to sac the other one before you end your turn, then you get two extra turns. Otherwise, you get none.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Yeah, I looked that up and edited the content of the post to reflect that. I honestly thought (without obviously reading) that the card prevented opponents like Stranglehold does.
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Besides, I think my list is right where I want it to be, with one flex spot left for Ugin.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
- Mirror Universe I like as a backdoor out to pretty much everything - Infinite life? Don't mind if I do.
- Grimoire of the Dead My deck has a gaggle of board wipes so the graveyards are always full of stuff, it's "downside" is a internal discard outlet that helps the welding plan & if you're playing black you need to pay like 8 mana for the same effect, seems like a good deal.
- Monkey Cage I'm playing the rattlesnake/"don't attack me or look over here while I build up to Daretti ult" version of this deck (briefly discussed earlier in the thread) and this card often helps stall out long enough to get the Daretti emblem online. With the emblem it's more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
- More artifact based removal/disruption - Meekstone, Pit Trap, Ensnaring Bridge, Oblivion Stone, Coercive Portal, Disk, Brittle Effigy (which was already mentioned & I'm not 100% I like better than Duplicant but the instant speed/low casting cost is nice plus ol' dupey is already in my other deck) Perilous Vault & Eye of Doom are all things that do a good job of holding down the fort. Note that these all get a zillion times better (other than the vault which exiles) with an indestructible enabler like Darksteel Forge or Soul of New Phyrexia or even Welding Jar which I also run.
Mirror Universe wouldn't really work with my deck/meta because no one goes insane life. The only value it would have is to just act as lifegain, but Wurmcoil Engine already fills that role. However I would definitely utilize the card if life gain becomes more common.
Grimoire of the Dead takes a little too long to setup without the proliferate mechanic supporting it. If I had a proliferate theme, I would definitely go with it.
Monkey Cage is a funny card right there, can't say anything bad about it lol. I'll just add that to my funny card list hahaha
In regards to your list of cards, these all fall into the Stax/"Slow Game" plan that I just didn't go down with my deck, I am all about trying to aggro out good artifacts in a speedy manner. Of the cards you mentioned, Eye of Doom could see a spot in my deck, but it could screw me more than my opponents if they choose something I control...
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[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya