If you're running Blasting Station and you already have Karmevillark AND Sun Titan, you should definitely slot in Fiend Hunter. Might not be fetchable with Recruiter, but it still combos with all of them, as well as does work on his own.
It's also possible to find another sac outlet, like Martyr's Cause, and add Altar of the Brood as another wincon. You might want a Trinket Mage to fetch it as well.
However, after thinking it though I agree on your thoughts that we should have a kill switch to end the game, but I think it should just be there in case the game becomes dull and boring. I still run plenty of small creatures that like to play with Curio, so I will definitely not be cutting it for now, although I will be putting an eye on it to see how it performs.
If you will go that direction regardless, I predict that you will eventually cut Sacred Mesa as well as some of the remaining hatebears like Linvala. At that point it will be a pretty typical combo-control list with some Ephara synergy. That's fine, but I think you would need to update your primer. What's so fun to me about Ephara is the unique gameplay style of slowing down the game in a way that very few EDH decks can (except Derevi Stasis), while still being very interactive.
I do have another suggestion for you: Boreas Charger. He's tutorable with Recruiter, holds swords, spammable with Displacer, and really helps activating Emeria. Also fetches Mistveil. Speaking of Displacer, I've acquired a Victory Chimes and am committed to seeing just how much shenanigans the both of them can cause.
Obviously these don't fit all the strictest definition of hatebears (2/2 for 2 with a static effect) but I think they get the message across. Some of them are good enough to be played as goodstuff (venser, gilded drake, glen elendra) but most are not.
I don't really want to have more than one combo outlet, as like you say this is not a combo-control UW goodstuff deck; Fiend Hunter is just so bad on his own and can't be fetched.
I don't think anything I do will further reduce the hatebear/creature disruption count; if anything I'll be touching the existing card advantage packages (stoneforge in particular).
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A small story about Sacred Mesa as to why I don't think I will likely cut it - even after considering this a lot. I drew probably 15 cards off it in a game the other day, and put a fate counter on it with OStone before popping Ostone. I'd forgotten how good it can be when people aren't constantly ench/art sweepering
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Maybe I could rename the primer to Flash and Taxes (a la legacy D&T with which the deck shares a lot of concepts--though obviously not a mana denial strategy).
(If you'll recall, D&T is not named after actual taxes but after the ubiquity of white weenie decks)
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Another edit: I forgot to address Boreas Charger -- I am pretty positive I want to add this. I am disappointed it's not available in foil, but neither was Tithe I guess. I'll probably slot it in for As Foretold which serves a similar purpose but is not a creature.
I can definitely see charger getting out of hand really fast if not stopped, and being another flying body is helpful.
Edit: I decided to go ahead and make this change and merged it with the last change update, since I haven't played any games. I am pretty confident Charger will be good in that spot.
I'll mention a game I recently had with a friend playing my Ephara deck, and me playing my Karador deck, as well as two others playing The Ur-Dragon and Maelstrom Wanderer.
Ephara entered turn 3 and curved right into Faerie Artisans. Ur-Dragon plays a fattie which the Artisans copies, as well as triggers card draw. Wanderer ramps and plays Devastation Tide. Karador isn't important at this stage. Ephara player replays the Artisans and copies it with Phantasmal Image, and ends up discarding Ephara to go down to 7 (a misplay in my opinion). Ur-Dragon replays fatties, ordered so that the last one is legendary so Ephara player only gets one copy. Wanderer plays his commander into Tezzeret into more artifact mana into even more artifact mana into Kozilek, which the Artisans give a copy of to Ephara player. Karador Shriekmaws original Kozilek.
Now Ephara player gets to swing Kozilek and both Artisans, so both attacked players are actually at very low life totals. Ur-Dragon plays another fattie, in response Ephara player gets rid of the Artisan that made Kozilek so it stays, and gets a token copy. At this point Ephara player is looking very threatening.
Wanderer plays Oblivion Stone and passes, Karador tries a cute play but gets targeted by Ephara player's Remorseful Cleric. In response Wanderer blows up the Stone - but Karador has Selfless Spirit. He then plays Sheoldred, and that's when the guys decide they've had enough.
Notes:
- Faerie Artisans, as you can see, was pretty menacing. The opponents gave it plenty of stuff to copy and our deck can do a bunch of shenanigans with it. Eventually it can result in free creatures for us and massive punishment for our opponents. If the pilot of the deck had replayed Ephara they would have drawn a disgusting amount of cards for free. We'd also forgotten a bunch of triggers for it, like the ones for Shriekmaw, but that would actually have been even better for them if we remembered that.
- Honestly, the threat of Remorseful Cleric's ability for even a single card in a graveyard can be well worth it, which goes to show the power of the card. Great add.
- Boreas Charger was played, and honestly it was pretty underwhelming. Because of all the card draw the Ephara player was hitting their land drops seamlessly, and the Charger would probably only have fetched one land - two at most. And that's with a Maelstrom Wanderer deck out! I'm getting unsure about this card but will test it more, since flickering it seems fun. See more on my thoughts of it below.
- Tithe, however, is much more solid. Consistently fetching two plains whenever you want for W is just great, and not relying on LTB shenanigans can actually be more accessible and more important.
- Aven Mindcensor as an honorable mention, wielding SOFAF, shutting down Wanderer's Tezz tutor ability and some ramp, as well as annoying me as Karador when I had Krosan Verge on the field and Razaketh, the Foulblooded in hand.
- The guy who piloted Ephara really complained when he saw I have Expedition Map and Tolaria West in the deck. Even when I showed him the ~10 great targets for these tutors he still said that in his opinion they weren't worth a card slot to fetch. What's your opinion? If it's relevant I don't have Academy Ruins but have several more targets like Winding Canyons, Kjeldoran Outpost, Moorland Haunt.
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Several more things that still have yet to be tested:
- Victory Chimes: potential mana monster and political tool fetchable with Trophy Mage. Opponents have complained that Ephara can be very boring to interact with, so this might make things more interesting.
- Mastery of the Unseen and Primordial Mist package: I'm very iffy on these but the synergy just screams out to me to be abused. We may not be Brago who can flicker them to his heart's content, but we have great ways to gain access to these cards just as well. I also think the lifegain can be relevant since my meta loves combat damage (and Peacekeeper is a card that they complained about a bunch, strangely even more so than Solitary Confinement).
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I'll expand on the Boreas Charger debate here:
Slotting it in for As Foretold is a bad call in my opinion, especially since you're considering slotting out the Stoneforge Mystic package. The best reason for us to have small flying bodies was so that we could stick equipment onto them and smash them into things, without the swords they will have next to no effect on the game. However the main point is that the amount of mana and combos that AF allows is just absurd. It's one of the enablers for Whitemane Lion and Stonecloaker monster draws, Forbid and Capsize become super scary with it, and it's one of the most effective tools to help us recast our commander should things go sour.
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Another point:
You're saying that Fiend Hunter isn't good enough for the deck, but you're running Leonin Relic-Warder. They are almost the exact same in what they do except FH usually targets higher priority stuff and has a better body (though it does cost 1 more - meh). However Fiend Hunter helps you win the game along with multiple other cards - each of Karmic Guide, Reveillark, and Sun Titan. I think at the very least it's more viable than one of your many clones, including Body Double which you are considering.
Few things:
* Really appreciate the writeup and notes! I really wanted to like Faerie Artisans and it might be that my impression of it was incorrect. Just every single time I had it in hand I didn't want to run it. It is undeniably superbly powerful though.
* I am not surprised at all about Remorseful Cleric being a house. Graveyard shenanigans are core to a huge number of EDH decks.
* I think you might be right about Boreas Charger vs. As Foretold. However my experience with As Foretold was mostly that it was a horrrrible topdeck late in the game, whereas Charger is at least a creature. My thinking is both comparing ceilings and floors I think Charger is a bit better - lower ceiling but much higher floor. The ceiling of as foretold is really high though you're right.
* You're right about potentially cuttin the equipment changing some of the perspective on fliers in the deck; I think if I cut equipment it will only be if I add an anthem effect like Archangel of thune or similar.
* Leonin Relic-Warder deals with a class of permanents that are much more of a problem than creatures in general. In my experience anyway creatures are far less of a priority than artifacts/enchantments for removal. I wouldn't go without the creature method of removing Darksteel Forge or opposing Gods.
* Re: Expedition Map + Tolaria West - I believe West is defensible but I don't like things that ETB tapped too much (emeria is bad enough). I would play neither until you have Weathered Wayfarer for sure, as they are both worse than him. I don't think I would play Map ever though. Just not what we're after.
* re: bird w/swords - yeah I am always amazed when I run away with a game with a flier with equipment. It can really just dominate a game sometimes. Jitte especially can really run away with it. I might keep Jitte just because it's tutorable by a bunch of other things and is a strong source of lifegain.
* Remember Body Double enables so much nonsense but particularly it enables an intuition package of Guide/Double/Reveillark to set up a combo. I will give some thought to Fiend Hunter for sure as it's been in the deck before, but not being tutorable is a big problem for me.
Of course I run wayfarer. That is a no brainer.
If you're looking for artifact and enchantment removal you could try Devout Witness, or Devout Chaplain. Chaplain is essentially enabled by Recruiter, and Witness is more solid than it looks. Both are tutorable.
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Several cards that I feel like I'm going to miss which I swapped out:
Angel of Jubilation - has been awesome with tokens and shutting down creature decks. If that card resolves vs Karador half their deck is shut down.
Walking Atlas - I think exploration on a creature is nuts for our deck. I will probably slot it back in if Courser underperforms.
Linvala and Thalia - were cut because I'm trying to build a Raff Capashen deck, but both are stupid good. If I take it apart they will be running back in.
Mizzium Meddler - normally it's pretty bad, but it's a flash creature which is always good. One time it stole a Uril's Bear Umbra, which is all I ever wanted in life. It's always on my mind, mostly because I can't afford snappy mage.
Mobilization - I had half a mind to combo it with Knight-Captain of Eos for fogging and drawing cards. Even without it it's been solid.
Dowsing Dagger, Sword of the Animist - I'm debating whether to slot these in for the mana myrs. I probably won't since the myrs allow for turn 3 Ephara, but the swords just scale so so well. With correct play they can let us stay up to par with the most absurd ramp decks.
Teshar, Lancers - I'm positive Teshar can be abused by this deck for ridiculous value. It's just hard to know for sure, and has a risk of doing nothing. Will probably try him if I take Raff apart. Lancers doesn't have enough targets just yet. How is the Lancers body performing in your games?
Re: Wayfarer - yeah! People sleep on that card but it's amazing. I don't think I would run map but I could see running Tolaria.
The issue with those is needing to tap and costing 3.
I'd slot in Return to Dust again if Relic Warder wasn't an option. My hope is eventually they'll print a reclamation sage in our colors but even then I am not sure I'd want to pass on the exile.
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Generally on board with all of your cuts, those are all mostly middling cards (except Thalia, Lancers and Linvala).
Re: Lancers
Lancers has been generally very good for me, though the mana cost is intensive. If I didn't have Jitte I'm not sure I'd run it, but getting Academy Ruins and Nykthos is what it does most. It also gets Elspeth or Elesh Norn to help close games which is useful, but again very mana intensive.
I could definitely see swapping it for something higher powered without Jitte in the deck. The card is absurd with Jitte, being a big body with first strike - It can basically attack through almost anything relying on being 8/8 at least after first strike damage.
There was only one game I can recall where I was sad to see Lancers and it was a game that was just blistering fast, and I topdecked it when I needed a cheap creature and it sat clogged in my hand all game because I couldn't take a turn off.
So in short I can see cutting it so don't blame you. It's really a matter of taste and having all the stuff line up in your deck at different points on the curve.
I would definitely save some lancers though - I have about 20 copies, 8 foil - because sooner or later they are going to print some more busted PWs or legendary creatures we want to play
Another point I'd like to discuss. I've removed both Sun Titan and AEtherling from my deck, and I have doubts about them both. All I expect to get from Titan is one trigger, and at such a high cost it's not worth it for me. AEtherling was more useful as a draw outlet with Ephara than a wincon, and I have plenty of those that aren't as expensive.
However I have my doubts, especially about Titan. I run a lot of 3CMC noncreature permanents that he could recur, but otherwise he would be pretty underwhelming like I said.
I just really like having a creature I can potentially oppressively recur (esp. with Helm of Possession or Blasting station it can get pretty foul. Same with Displacer. Relic Warder can also protect your own stuff in a pinch.
Aetherling usually proved too slow for me; I think if we're trying to be competitive we either play Deadeye in that slot or nothing.
end step Activate O Stone, untap
Cast Sun Titan, trigger get Phantasmal Image
Image copy titan, trigger get lightning greaves
Eequip greaves on image to kill it
Equip greaves on Titan
bash, get image
Image copy titan trigger getting Sacred Mesa
With Intuition, titan gives you more ways to force the results you want - adds more packages that win (e.g. Titan+Recruiter+reveillark of body double is dead does the same thing but slower).
You need to be running Phantasmal Image with Titan in my opinion, and I would strongly consider cutting it if not playin Intuition.
Note: If you're wanting to be a Rest in Peace deck, I could see that as a reasonable time to shave Titan also. I find the graveyard shenanigans to be too good and with Remorseful Cleric I don't see a reason to run RIP.
partial list of good intuition packages:
titan recruiter whitemane lion (forces whitemane lion)
titan reveillark recruiter (forces recruiter)
reveillark body double karmic guide (forces body double or guide)
reveillark guide XXcreatureXX forces them to give you whatever XX is (or you evoke reveillark and get it, or guide and get it)
snapcaster archaeomancer XXSpellXX (forces them to give you archaeomancer generally)
spellseeker titan guide (forces them to give you spellseeker mostly)
There's a list a mile long of "2x recursion + tutor or other shenanigan" if you have all the right stuff int he deck.
and this concludes our infomercial on intuition being good in this deck
Deputy of Detention might be a strong option. Detention Sphere was a solid card and only saddened me because it wasn't a creature, so abusing it was more difficult. This does much of the same but is more easily blinkable for value.
However, there are two downsides: The phrasing on the rules text means that we can't abuse it to exile stuff forever, and it's restricted to exiling opponents' stuff so our Reveillark doesn't combo with it.
I still think the general O-ring effect is strong enough to warrant inclusion, but this card had the potential to be an all-star were it phrased difficulty.
Hmmm, clearing the board of tokens and clones is fairly powerful but being 1/3 and therefore not recruiterable or reveillarkable makes it somewhat questionable. Also the restriction of opponents' control is iffy.
I don't think I will try it, would try it in place of relic warder if it was a 2/2, but the inability to exile problem stuff forever is an issue.
It's nice to see that kinda stuff printed though for sure.
Weirdly I am a bit more excited about Dovin, Grand Arbiter. A 3 mana walker that makes tokens and has a pretty easy ultimate (that is fairly powerful) might be better than investing all your mana in Sacred mesa in some circumstances (and warrant being tutored for by Thalia's Lancers).
It's always been weird to me that the only cheap walker that makes tokens in our colors is the somewhat underwhelming Elspeth. Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants is somewhat dependent on board/gy state but can do some of the same.
Not sure I'll play this but I like it. A token every turn is very strong in Ephara, esp. when it can pump a ton of loyalty. The issue is mainly with the loyalty being contingent on your dudes not hanging back to block which is kinda questionable.
I have a new idea for a combo. This one is with Laboratory Maniac.
If you clone Mirror-Mad Phantasm then use the clone's activated ability you'll empty your library since the Phantasm isn't in your deck. The best part is that both are fetchable by Recruiter!
So, Smothering Tithe looks like an auto-include to me. Comes too late to help casting ephara, but oh boy this could provide a LOT of additional mana.
Surely a strong card and ripe for consideration, but I would still hesitate to slot it in:
It's not a creature. If the choice would be between this and ManaMyrs or Stormscape Familiar, it wouldn't stand much of a chance. Our stuff that comes in at sorcery speed needs to have value.
It's costly. Like you said, it's important for mana production to be able to ramp out Ephara.
It's difficult to tutor. It's not a creature nor an artifact at 3, so it's difficult to look for if you want more mana.
However, there is a card that was run here until recently that also matches these criteria: As Foretold. Let's compare them.
AF comes down earlier, but takes much more time to pay for itself. However, when you wait about 2 turns for it, the game gets crazy. Best used when you want to cast something during each player's turn consistently. Vulnerable to spot removal.
ST comes down later but can almost pay for itself if it survives the round, even without any extra draw from your opponents. Unlike AF, the mana survives after this card is shot down by spot removal. The mana can be hoarded and used all at once in a single explosive turn, but it takes a while to do so - and during that while AF could have been doing ridiculous things during each turn that goes by - unless you are in a meta with tons of card draw.
It's difficult to say which is better for sure, as it seems like a meta call to me. If your meta has Nekusar, Kami of the Crescent Moon, or other grouphug decks, this card is a must include. Otherwise, proceed with caution.
EDIT: I'm running Victory Chimes, and for what it's worth I think the Chimes are more consistent. They are tutorable with Trophy Mage and can pay for themselves the round they come into play without fail. I might be wrong, though.
As Foretold is definitely better than this new card in my opinion. I could potentially see Smothering Tithe in a token build that runs anointed procession, or maybe with an artifact deck, I dunno.
If I wanted a 4 mana ramp spell I'd play thran dynamo. Far more consistent. Probably stronger than Victory Chimes too when it comes down to it.
re: combo
re: mirror mad phantasm - I can't think of any way to make that win the game without a third piece on the board. Also, the issue with it is that it's a very bad card on its own, as is lab maniac.
When looking at combos for this deck I mostly look for stuff that doesn't require bad cards or requires the fewest -- the blasting station combo has only one bad card (though a sac outlet is pretty nice in the deck), and has two cards I definitely want in the deck. Phantasm/Maniac combo requires two bad cards one of them being 5 mana which is a really greedy spot.
If you were running a stronger reanimator subtheme with stuff like Emeria Shepherd it might make sense, but not being able to play Dread Return or Unburial Rites is kinda killer there.
Victory Chimes generates CCCC which is split for each turn, while Dynamo generates CCC on only one turn. I think our deck definitely wants mana on more turns rather than one big turn.
I agree with As Foretold being better, but Smothering Tithe seems more flexible than Chimes or Dynamo since you can save the treasures. Might turn out less usefull than I think, but should at least be worth testing.
Victory Chimes generates CCCC which is split for each turn, while Dynamo generates CCC on only one turn. I think our deck definitely wants mana on more turns rather than one big turn.
Something to remember is that we have to have other colored s5ources anyway for the mana to be useful most of the time. So if you drop chimes on curve it's unlikely you're doing anything with the mana.
So in the scenario where you cast them mid game with mana up they will generally be equivalent (though obviously dynamo is more expensive).
I don't think either is worth playing. Oketra's monument and as foretold are both preferable to me. At its ceiling victory chimes is slightly better than monument's floor by reducing blue spells too but the ceiling of monument is going ham with whitemane.
I agree with As Foretold being better, but Smothering Tithe seems more flexible than Chimes or Dynamo since you can save the treasures. Might turn out less usefull than I think, but should at least be worth testing.
I'm possibly being too pessimistic but I only run like one sorcery speed card at 4 mana that doesn't draw a card off ephara the turn it comes down and that card is my anticommander card (helm) that is really a 6 drop.
This card is just very slow and awkward at 4. Dynamo can enable explosive turns by generating 3 mana the turn it hits so example on 5 mana you cast dynamo and then cast a 4 mana creature then untap with Elesh norn mana.
This card you drop and then do nothing. That's what i dislike about it, it never will explode the turn you cast it so its basically dead if you have nothing and if you have something you have to take a turn off. I can see the possibility that you have flash cards, but then you're dependent on someone casting enough spells to enable them - slow turn and it's going to be iffy.
This is one of the reasons I play so little non creature ramp. Obviously dynamo suffers from half of this issue like most ramp.
I wouldn't run either before chimes and wouldn't run chimes before oketras monument or as foretold. Tho chimes is tempting because its floor is much higher than as foretold.
All in all I'm not sure ramping more is what we want to do. Again we have some pretty crazy artifact ramp options we've eschewed for a reason.
The card also has to be compared to strong engines we're not running like walkers or thopter spy network or oketra or heliod or even stuff like clever impersonator. Oh, Faerie Artisans too.
A good exercise might be to look at the 6 or so 4 mana cards in my deck and see what you'd remove to test it. I can't really think of anything.
(Linvala,metamorph, student, glen elendra, venser and helm).
Anywho I do really like the card. I think I'd almost surely try it in an artifact shell with thopters. That deck is way more mana hungry. But I can't see where it fits for me.
It's also insanely good with Clock of Omens. Combined with unwinding clock and shimmer myr type stuff and you could have a whole lot of crazy nonsense going on. The modules from kaladesh, the retrofitter foundry from c18, etc.
Victory Chimes generates CCCC which is split for each turn, while Dynamo generates CCC on only one turn. I think our deck definitely wants mana on more turns rather than one big turn.
Something to remember is that we have to have other colored s5ources anyway for the mana to be useful most of the time. So if you drop chimes on curve it's unlikely you're doing anything with the mana.
So in the scenario where you cast them mid game with mana up they will generally be equivalent (though obviously dynamo is more expensive).
I don't think either is worth playing. Oketra's monument and as foretold are both preferable to me. At its ceiling victory chimes is slightly better than monument's floor by reducing blue spells too but the ceiling of monument is going ham with whitemane.
I disagree about Monument. It punishes us for running things that aren't creatures (specifically white), and doesn't work with Forbid and Capsize the way Chimes does. Also, we don't really have anthem effects so they are unlikely to swing for damage, and they don't have evasion so we can't really stick equipment onto them (excluding Jitte). If the tokens were fliers this card would be hard to put aside, but as it is I don't think it's likely to find a spot here.
What's also important to me is that we can cast Ephara turn 4 having played Chimes turn 3 even if we don't find a 4th land. Dynamo doesn't help cast Ephara, and there aren't a lot of things that we can cast with CCC. I'm still a strong advocate for Chimes.
I disagree about Monument. It punishes us for running things that aren't creatures (specifically white), and doesn't work with Forbid and Capsize the way Chimes does. Also, we don't really have anthem effects so they are unlikely to swing for damage, and they don't have evasion so we can't really stick equipment onto them (excluding Jitte). If the tokens were fliers this card would be hard to put aside, but as it is I don't think it's likely to find a spot here.
What's also important to me is that we can cast Ephara turn 4 having played Chimes turn 3 even if we don't find a 4th land. Dynamo doesn't help cast Ephara, and there aren't a lot of things that we can cast with CCC. I'm still a strong advocate for Chimes.
So I've got 23 cards (including Ephara) that monument helps cast, some of them being repeatable. You might be right there, but I think lion and stonecloaker kinda exaggerate how strong the effect is a lot.
Gonna ruminate on that, really I guess for me comes down to whether I start feeling mana constrained and how good Boreas Charger is. Lately I've felt pretty good about my odds of getting Ephara turn 2-3 (almost every game).
I don't think thran dynamo belongs in the conversation obviously but it's more of a thing to compare to Smothering Tithe I think. Still not really 100% sure my evaluation of that card is right, but time will tell - hopefully we'll get some reports back of how people like it as I've got a lot of stuff to work on first.
I run As Foretold, Charger, and Chimes. I'll report on how the latter two perform. I also don't think we have only one spot for these: we REALLY need mana lategame. But that's up to the pilot I guess.
I like Knight much better than Heart, but Knight has the issue of not really helping churn out T3 Ephara. I currently have 7 cards that help bring her out T3, and only Sol Ring to help bring her out T2. I'm not sure if I need more than that, but if I were to slot more 2CMC mana card it would probably be Walking Atlas and only then Knight.
I run As Foretold, Charger, and Chimes. I'll report on how the latter two perform. I also don't think we have only one spot for these: we REALLY need mana lategame. But that's up to the pilot I guess.
I like Knight much better than Heart, but Knight has the issue of not really helping churn out T3 Ephara. I currently have 7 cards that help bring her out T3, and only Sol Ring to help bring her out T2. I'm not sure if I need more than that, but if I were to slot more 2CMC mana card it would probably be Walking Atlas and only then Knight.
Looking forward to hearing how that goes!
So I run Mana Crypt and Ancient Tomb as some bigger mana generation, so I think maybe I want it less. I'd really have to think about whether Mana Vault is better than any of those cards too, despite its shortcomings it enables a turn 2 ephara.
The ramp package is one of the hardest things to get right in this deck because if you overdo it especially with non-creatures you can stall out quite easily.
White Angel of Grace is pretty interesting. If it had the full text of Angel's Grace I would probably give it a try. As is it's not good enough. The flash body is pretty relevant though. If the from GY ability said "becomes half your starting life total" I'd also give it a thought as part of intuition packages. But falls short in too many spots. Lumbering Battlement is definitely a strong card, but suffers from too expensive and not having flash. I could see a more ETB focused build going deep on this card with cards like Archaeomancer - blinking this card with Displacer could be a way to set up a number of lockdown scenarios (e.g. stonehorn dignitary+some other value card under the battlement). Hero of Precinct One is a powerful effect that just doesn't quite line up with our deck. In a controlly shell with lots of multicolored instants and sorceries I could see this being an engine -- kind of a Monastery Mentor + Ojutai Exemplars type of build. I don't know if it's good but I could envision it. Ministrant of Obligation seems to go infinite with Nim Deathmantle and Ashnod's Altar which is a powerful scenario. I could see that type of combo package being worth considering (since deathmantle and Altar are both pretty strong cards). Making infinite colorless and infinite tokens is pretty good in a 3 card combo. Resolute Watchdog is a pretty powerful ranger of Eos card--much more flexible than Dauntless bodyguard. Smothering Tithe we have discussed but I Think it is a clutch card in an artifact build. Tithe Taker is quite powerful for 2 mana, worth considering. Probably not on my shortlist though due to the narrowness.
Blue
Sadly nothin really interesting to me.
Azorius Lavinia, Azorius Renegade - this is probably the only shoe in for my deck in the set. I really like her ability. Deputy of Detention is a reasonable consideration. I don't love it because of not being reveillarkable or recruiterable and having a targeting restriction. Dovin, Grand Arbiter - A pretty powerful effect, able to be brought back with Sun Titan. Antyhing that makes tokens every turn with no mana investment is worth thinking about. The ultimate is not amazing but it is pretty easy to achieve with all our evasive critters. I probably will try him at some point just for the efficiency. Not sure what the cut would be, but it could be any 3 mana creature.
Summary
I was at first super excited but the set turned out to be kind of a bust. Lavinia is the only card I am particularly interested in, though the more I think about it trying to police people on her effect sounds kinda unfun.
I guess a bust is a harsh way to say it, but the first two hatebears (tithe taker and lavinia) gave me some hope we'd have an autoinclude at least can't have a spell seeker or remorseful cleric in every set I guess.
There's a lot of neat tech for EDH but most of it isn't in our colors. I wish they would start printing hatebears a little more aggressively. We could use a one sided torpor orb bear for sure (even if it cost 4), or a "cast trigger" bear that shuts off everything triggering on casts would be pretty fun.
The most exciting thing about this set for me is probably dropping Linvala on all the people running Prime Speaker Vannifar
I am definitely going to slot in Deputy of Detention, the shenanigans on this card just call out to me.
On his own he's great at getting rid of enemy commanders and token swarms, as well as whatever most troubles us at the moment. Also synergizes well with the Riptide Laboratory I just slotted in.
What I'm really looking forward to, though, is flashing in Containment Priest and bouncing this guy with the Cloudstone Curio trigger. It might only work against creatures, but man is that great. Not to mention replaying DoD will bounce the Priest back and protect it, so the combo can start all over again.
Dovin, Grand Arbiter works stupidly well in a token shell. Thopter Spy Network, Sharding Sphinx, stuff like that. He might be somewhat abusable for Ephara, but definitely not better than something like Sacred Mesa. If you're running a thopter shell this guy is great though.
I'd like your opinion on something, though. Inventors' Fair is raising doubts in my mind. The reason we include it is because of the artifact tutor ability, but it needs metalcraft. My deck runs around 15ish of those, which feels like it might not be enough. The ability robbing us of 5 lands is another drawback, as well as the land not producing any colored mana. How does it perform for you? How troublesome is the requirement? What do you usually fetch with it?
Yeah, there is definitely something to be said for machine gunning creatures with containment priest as a strategy. The ability to hide priest under it is pretty good too. I have found priest+displacer is mostly good enough there though.
Look forward to hearing how Deputy is. It definitely has some uses.
I think there is almost surely a thopter+artifacts deck out there for ephara man. Dovin is very good in it too.
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So far, Inventor's Fair has only won me one game. Most of the time it sits around not wanting to spend 5 mana on it (or not having metalcraft).
One game I tutored up a curio I needed to get the lockdown going (after wayfaring for it). Being able to Wayfarer for an artifact is a powerful endgame tool.
In another game I got an ostone with it and it kept me in the game but did not win it.
I am really hit or miss on it, but I need colorless sources to support displacer. I am not sure what I would swap it out for. Maybe High Market to help do more damage with theft effects, I dunno.
It's also possible to find another sac outlet, like Martyr's Cause, and add Altar of the Brood as another wincon. You might want a Trinket Mage to fetch it as well.
The thing is, though, that the more cards like this that you slot in, the less this deck becomes about hatebears like it had been originally. In fact the only hate creatures I still see in your deck are Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and they are definitely not bears. Well, maybe Hushwing Gryff is.
However, after thinking it though I agree on your thoughts that we should have a kill switch to end the game, but I think it should just be there in case the game becomes dull and boring. I still run plenty of small creatures that like to play with Curio, so I will definitely not be cutting it for now, although I will be putting an eye on it to see how it performs.
If you will go that direction regardless, I predict that you will eventually cut Sacred Mesa as well as some of the remaining hatebears like Linvala. At that point it will be a pretty typical combo-control list with some Ephara synergy. That's fine, but I think you would need to update your primer. What's so fun to me about Ephara is the unique gameplay style of slowing down the game in a way that very few EDH decks can (except Derevi Stasis), while still being very interactive.
I do have another suggestion for you: Boreas Charger. He's tutorable with Recruiter, holds swords, spammable with Displacer, and really helps activating Emeria. Also fetches Mistveil. Speaking of Displacer, I've acquired a Victory Chimes and am committed to seeing just how much shenanigans the both of them can cause.
Obviously these don't fit all the strictest definition of hatebears (2/2 for 2 with a static effect) but I think they get the message across. Some of them are good enough to be played as goodstuff (venser, gilded drake, glen elendra) but most are not.
I don't really want to have more than one combo outlet, as like you say this is not a combo-control UW goodstuff deck; Fiend Hunter is just so bad on his own and can't be fetched.
I will likely replace Archaeomancer with Body Double as I just remembered that.
I don't think anything I do will further reduce the hatebear/creature disruption count; if anything I'll be touching the existing card advantage packages (stoneforge in particular).
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A small story about Sacred Mesa as to why I don't think I will likely cut it - even after considering this a lot. I drew probably 15 cards off it in a game the other day, and put a fate counter on it with OStone before popping Ostone. I'd forgotten how good it can be when people aren't constantly ench/art sweepering
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Maybe I could rename the primer to Flash and Taxes (a la legacy D&T with which the deck shares a lot of concepts--though obviously not a mana denial strategy).
(If you'll recall, D&T is not named after actual taxes but after the ubiquity of white weenie decks)
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Another edit: I forgot to address Boreas Charger -- I am pretty positive I want to add this. I am disappointed it's not available in foil, but neither was Tithe I guess. I'll probably slot it in for As Foretold which serves a similar purpose but is not a creature.
I can definitely see charger getting out of hand really fast if not stopped, and being another flying body is helpful.
Edit: I decided to go ahead and make this change and merged it with the last change update, since I haven't played any games. I am pretty confident Charger will be good in that spot.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Ephara entered turn 3 and curved right into Faerie Artisans. Ur-Dragon plays a fattie which the Artisans copies, as well as triggers card draw. Wanderer ramps and plays Devastation Tide. Karador isn't important at this stage. Ephara player replays the Artisans and copies it with Phantasmal Image, and ends up discarding Ephara to go down to 7 (a misplay in my opinion). Ur-Dragon replays fatties, ordered so that the last one is legendary so Ephara player only gets one copy. Wanderer plays his commander into Tezzeret into more artifact mana into even more artifact mana into Kozilek, which the Artisans give a copy of to Ephara player. Karador Shriekmaws original Kozilek.
Now Ephara player gets to swing Kozilek and both Artisans, so both attacked players are actually at very low life totals. Ur-Dragon plays another fattie, in response Ephara player gets rid of the Artisan that made Kozilek so it stays, and gets a token copy. At this point Ephara player is looking very threatening.
Wanderer plays Oblivion Stone and passes, Karador tries a cute play but gets targeted by Ephara player's Remorseful Cleric. In response Wanderer blows up the Stone - but Karador has Selfless Spirit. He then plays Sheoldred, and that's when the guys decide they've had enough.
Notes:
- Faerie Artisans, as you can see, was pretty menacing. The opponents gave it plenty of stuff to copy and our deck can do a bunch of shenanigans with it. Eventually it can result in free creatures for us and massive punishment for our opponents. If the pilot of the deck had replayed Ephara they would have drawn a disgusting amount of cards for free. We'd also forgotten a bunch of triggers for it, like the ones for Shriekmaw, but that would actually have been even better for them if we remembered that.
- Honestly, the threat of Remorseful Cleric's ability for even a single card in a graveyard can be well worth it, which goes to show the power of the card. Great add.
- Boreas Charger was played, and honestly it was pretty underwhelming. Because of all the card draw the Ephara player was hitting their land drops seamlessly, and the Charger would probably only have fetched one land - two at most. And that's with a Maelstrom Wanderer deck out! I'm getting unsure about this card but will test it more, since flickering it seems fun. See more on my thoughts of it below.
- Tithe, however, is much more solid. Consistently fetching two plains whenever you want for W is just great, and not relying on LTB shenanigans can actually be more accessible and more important.
- Aven Mindcensor as an honorable mention, wielding SOFAF, shutting down Wanderer's Tezz tutor ability and some ramp, as well as annoying me as Karador when I had Krosan Verge on the field and Razaketh, the Foulblooded in hand.
- The guy who piloted Ephara really complained when he saw I have Expedition Map and Tolaria West in the deck. Even when I showed him the ~10 great targets for these tutors he still said that in his opinion they weren't worth a card slot to fetch. What's your opinion? If it's relevant I don't have Academy Ruins but have several more targets like Winding Canyons, Kjeldoran Outpost, Moorland Haunt.
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Several more things that still have yet to be tested:
- Victory Chimes: potential mana monster and political tool fetchable with Trophy Mage. Opponents have complained that Ephara can be very boring to interact with, so this might make things more interesting.
- Mastery of the Unseen and Primordial Mist package: I'm very iffy on these but the synergy just screams out to me to be abused. We may not be Brago who can flicker them to his heart's content, but we have great ways to gain access to these cards just as well. I also think the lifegain can be relevant since my meta loves combat damage (and Peacekeeper is a card that they complained about a bunch, strangely even more so than Solitary Confinement).
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I'll expand on the Boreas Charger debate here:
Slotting it in for As Foretold is a bad call in my opinion, especially since you're considering slotting out the Stoneforge Mystic package. The best reason for us to have small flying bodies was so that we could stick equipment onto them and smash them into things, without the swords they will have next to no effect on the game. However the main point is that the amount of mana and combos that AF allows is just absurd. It's one of the enablers for Whitemane Lion and Stonecloaker monster draws, Forbid and Capsize become super scary with it, and it's one of the most effective tools to help us recast our commander should things go sour.
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Another point:
You're saying that Fiend Hunter isn't good enough for the deck, but you're running Leonin Relic-Warder. They are almost the exact same in what they do except FH usually targets higher priority stuff and has a better body (though it does cost 1 more - meh). However Fiend Hunter helps you win the game along with multiple other cards - each of Karmic Guide, Reveillark, and Sun Titan. I think at the very least it's more viable than one of your many clones, including Body Double which you are considering.
* Really appreciate the writeup and notes! I really wanted to like Faerie Artisans and it might be that my impression of it was incorrect. Just every single time I had it in hand I didn't want to run it. It is undeniably superbly powerful though.
* I am not surprised at all about Remorseful Cleric being a house. Graveyard shenanigans are core to a huge number of EDH decks.
* I think you might be right about Boreas Charger vs. As Foretold. However my experience with As Foretold was mostly that it was a horrrrible topdeck late in the game, whereas Charger is at least a creature. My thinking is both comparing ceilings and floors I think Charger is a bit better - lower ceiling but much higher floor. The ceiling of as foretold is really high though you're right.
* You're right about potentially cuttin the equipment changing some of the perspective on fliers in the deck; I think if I cut equipment it will only be if I add an anthem effect like Archangel of thune or similar.
* Leonin Relic-Warder deals with a class of permanents that are much more of a problem than creatures in general. In my experience anyway creatures are far less of a priority than artifacts/enchantments for removal. I wouldn't go without the creature method of removing Darksteel Forge or opposing Gods.
* Re: Expedition Map + Tolaria West - I believe West is defensible but I don't like things that ETB tapped too much (emeria is bad enough). I would play neither until you have Weathered Wayfarer for sure, as they are both worse than him. I don't think I would play Map ever though. Just not what we're after.
* re: bird w/swords - yeah I am always amazed when I run away with a game with a flier with equipment. It can really just dominate a game sometimes. Jitte especially can really run away with it. I might keep Jitte just because it's tutorable by a bunch of other things and is a strong source of lifegain.
* Remember Body Double enables so much nonsense but particularly it enables an intuition package of Guide/Double/Reveillark to set up a combo. I will give some thought to Fiend Hunter for sure as it's been in the deck before, but not being tutorable is a big problem for me.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
If you're looking for artifact and enchantment removal you could try Devout Witness, or Devout Chaplain. Chaplain is essentially enabled by Recruiter, and Witness is more solid than it looks. Both are tutorable.
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Several cards that I feel like I'm going to miss which I swapped out:
Angel of Jubilation - has been awesome with tokens and shutting down creature decks. If that card resolves vs Karador half their deck is shut down.
Walking Atlas - I think exploration on a creature is nuts for our deck. I will probably slot it back in if Courser underperforms.
Linvala and Thalia - were cut because I'm trying to build a Raff Capashen deck, but both are stupid good. If I take it apart they will be running back in.
Mizzium Meddler - normally it's pretty bad, but it's a flash creature which is always good. One time it stole a Uril's Bear Umbra, which is all I ever wanted in life. It's always on my mind, mostly because I can't afford snappy mage.
Mobilization - I had half a mind to combo it with Knight-Captain of Eos for fogging and drawing cards. Even without it it's been solid.
Dowsing Dagger, Sword of the Animist - I'm debating whether to slot these in for the mana myrs. I probably won't since the myrs allow for turn 3 Ephara, but the swords just scale so so well. With correct play they can let us stay up to par with the most absurd ramp decks.
Teshar, Lancers - I'm positive Teshar can be abused by this deck for ridiculous value. It's just hard to know for sure, and has a risk of doing nothing. Will probably try him if I take Raff apart. Lancers doesn't have enough targets just yet. How is the Lancers body performing in your games?
The issue with those is needing to tap and costing 3.
I'd slot in Return to Dust again if Relic Warder wasn't an option. My hope is eventually they'll print a reclamation sage in our colors but even then I am not sure I'd want to pass on the exile.
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Generally on board with all of your cuts, those are all mostly middling cards (except Thalia, Lancers and Linvala).
Re: Lancers
Lancers has been generally very good for me, though the mana cost is intensive. If I didn't have Jitte I'm not sure I'd run it, but getting Academy Ruins and Nykthos is what it does most. It also gets Elspeth or Elesh Norn to help close games which is useful, but again very mana intensive.
I could definitely see swapping it for something higher powered without Jitte in the deck. The card is absurd with Jitte, being a big body with first strike - It can basically attack through almost anything relying on being 8/8 at least after first strike damage.
There was only one game I can recall where I was sad to see Lancers and it was a game that was just blistering fast, and I topdecked it when I needed a cheap creature and it sat clogged in my hand all game because I couldn't take a turn off.
So in short I can see cutting it so don't blame you. It's really a matter of taste and having all the stuff line up in your deck at different points on the curve.
I would definitely save some lancers though - I have about 20 copies, 8 foil - because sooner or later they are going to print some more busted PWs or legendary creatures we want to play
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Another point I'd like to discuss. I've removed both Sun Titan and AEtherling from my deck, and I have doubts about them both. All I expect to get from Titan is one trigger, and at such a high cost it's not worth it for me. AEtherling was more useful as a draw outlet with Ephara than a wincon, and I have plenty of those that aren't as expensive.
However I have my doubts, especially about Titan. I run a lot of 3CMC noncreature permanents that he could recur, but otherwise he would be pretty underwhelming like I said.
Aetherling usually proved too slow for me; I think if we're trying to be competitive we either play Deadeye in that slot or nothing.
Because I play Intuition and Phantasmal Image I would never cut Sun Titan.
Here's an actual sequence from a game:
end step Activate O Stone, untap
Cast Sun Titan, trigger get Phantasmal Image
Image copy titan, trigger get lightning greaves
Eequip greaves on image to kill it
Equip greaves on Titan
bash, get image
Image copy titan trigger getting Sacred Mesa
With Intuition, titan gives you more ways to force the results you want - adds more packages that win (e.g. Titan+Recruiter+reveillark of body double is dead does the same thing but slower).
You need to be running Phantasmal Image with Titan in my opinion, and I would strongly consider cutting it if not playin Intuition.
Note: If you're wanting to be a Rest in Peace deck, I could see that as a reasonable time to shave Titan also. I find the graveyard shenanigans to be too good and with Remorseful Cleric I don't see a reason to run RIP.
partial list of good intuition packages:
titan recruiter whitemane lion (forces whitemane lion)
titan reveillark recruiter (forces recruiter)
reveillark body double karmic guide (forces body double or guide)
reveillark guide XXcreatureXX forces them to give you whatever XX is (or you evoke reveillark and get it, or guide and get it)
snapcaster archaeomancer XXSpellXX (forces them to give you archaeomancer generally)
spellseeker titan guide (forces them to give you spellseeker mostly)
There's a list a mile long of "2x recursion + tutor or other shenanigan" if you have all the right stuff int he deck.
and this concludes our infomercial on intuition being good in this deck
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
However, there are two downsides: The phrasing on the rules text means that we can't abuse it to exile stuff forever, and it's restricted to exiling opponents' stuff so our Reveillark doesn't combo with it.
I still think the general O-ring effect is strong enough to warrant inclusion, but this card had the potential to be an all-star were it phrased difficulty.
I don't think I will try it, would try it in place of relic warder if it was a 2/2, but the inability to exile problem stuff forever is an issue.
It's nice to see that kinda stuff printed though for sure.
Weirdly I am a bit more excited about Dovin, Grand Arbiter. A 3 mana walker that makes tokens and has a pretty easy ultimate (that is fairly powerful) might be better than investing all your mana in Sacred mesa in some circumstances (and warrant being tutored for by Thalia's Lancers).
It's always been weird to me that the only cheap walker that makes tokens in our colors is the somewhat underwhelming Elspeth. Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants is somewhat dependent on board/gy state but can do some of the same.
Not sure I'll play this but I like it. A token every turn is very strong in Ephara, esp. when it can pump a ton of loyalty. The issue is mainly with the loyalty being contingent on your dudes not hanging back to block which is kinda questionable.
Anyway another one I like the design for.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
If you clone Mirror-Mad Phantasm then use the clone's activated ability you'll empty your library since the Phantasm isn't in your deck. The best part is that both are fetchable by Recruiter!
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
Surely a strong card and ripe for consideration, but I would still hesitate to slot it in:
However, there is a card that was run here until recently that also matches these criteria: As Foretold. Let's compare them.
AF comes down earlier, but takes much more time to pay for itself. However, when you wait about 2 turns for it, the game gets crazy. Best used when you want to cast something during each player's turn consistently. Vulnerable to spot removal.
ST comes down later but can almost pay for itself if it survives the round, even without any extra draw from your opponents. Unlike AF, the mana survives after this card is shot down by spot removal. The mana can be hoarded and used all at once in a single explosive turn, but it takes a while to do so - and during that while AF could have been doing ridiculous things during each turn that goes by - unless you are in a meta with tons of card draw.
It's difficult to say which is better for sure, as it seems like a meta call to me. If your meta has Nekusar, Kami of the Crescent Moon, or other group hug decks, this card is a must include. Otherwise, proceed with caution.
EDIT: I'm running Victory Chimes, and for what it's worth I think the Chimes are more consistent. They are tutorable with Trophy Mage and can pay for themselves the round they come into play without fail. I might be wrong, though.
If I wanted a 4 mana ramp spell I'd play thran dynamo. Far more consistent. Probably stronger than Victory Chimes too when it comes down to it.
re: combo
re: mirror mad phantasm - I can't think of any way to make that win the game without a third piece on the board. Also, the issue with it is that it's a very bad card on its own, as is lab maniac.
When looking at combos for this deck I mostly look for stuff that doesn't require bad cards or requires the fewest -- the blasting station combo has only one bad card (though a sac outlet is pretty nice in the deck), and has two cards I definitely want in the deck. Phantasm/Maniac combo requires two bad cards one of them being 5 mana which is a really greedy spot.
If you were running a stronger reanimator subtheme with stuff like Emeria Shepherd it might make sense, but not being able to play Dread Return or Unburial Rites is kinda killer there.
Good thinking though
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
Something to remember is that we have to have other colored s5ources anyway for the mana to be useful most of the time. So if you drop chimes on curve it's unlikely you're doing anything with the mana.
So in the scenario where you cast them mid game with mana up they will generally be equivalent (though obviously dynamo is more expensive).
I don't think either is worth playing. Oketra's monument and as foretold are both preferable to me. At its ceiling victory chimes is slightly better than monument's floor by reducing blue spells too but the ceiling of monument is going ham with whitemane.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I'm possibly being too pessimistic but I only run like one sorcery speed card at 4 mana that doesn't draw a card off ephara the turn it comes down and that card is my anticommander card (helm) that is really a 6 drop.
This card is just very slow and awkward at 4. Dynamo can enable explosive turns by generating 3 mana the turn it hits so example on 5 mana you cast dynamo and then cast a 4 mana creature then untap with Elesh norn mana.
This card you drop and then do nothing. That's what i dislike about it, it never will explode the turn you cast it so its basically dead if you have nothing and if you have something you have to take a turn off. I can see the possibility that you have flash cards, but then you're dependent on someone casting enough spells to enable them - slow turn and it's going to be iffy.
This is one of the reasons I play so little non creature ramp. Obviously dynamo suffers from half of this issue like most ramp.
I wouldn't run either before chimes and wouldn't run chimes before oketras monument or as foretold. Tho chimes is tempting because its floor is much higher than as foretold.
All in all I'm not sure ramping more is what we want to do. Again we have some pretty crazy artifact ramp options we've eschewed for a reason.
The card also has to be compared to strong engines we're not running like walkers or thopter spy network or oketra or heliod or even stuff like clever impersonator. Oh, Faerie Artisans too.
A good exercise might be to look at the 6 or so 4 mana cards in my deck and see what you'd remove to test it. I can't really think of anything.
(Linvala,metamorph, student, glen elendra, venser and helm).
Anywho I do really like the card. I think I'd almost surely try it in an artifact shell with thopters. That deck is way more mana hungry. But I can't see where it fits for me.
It's also insanely good with Clock of Omens. Combined with unwinding clock and shimmer myr type stuff and you could have a whole lot of crazy nonsense going on. The modules from kaladesh, the retrofitter foundry from c18, etc.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I disagree about Monument. It punishes us for running things that aren't creatures (specifically white), and doesn't work with Forbid and Capsize the way Chimes does. Also, we don't really have anthem effects so they are unlikely to swing for damage, and they don't have evasion so we can't really stick equipment onto them (excluding Jitte). If the tokens were fliers this card would be hard to put aside, but as it is I don't think it's likely to find a spot here.
What's also important to me is that we can cast Ephara turn 4 having played Chimes turn 3 even if we don't find a 4th land. Dynamo doesn't help cast Ephara, and there aren't a lot of things that we can cast with CCC. I'm still a strong advocate for Chimes.
So I've got 23 cards (including Ephara) that monument helps cast, some of them being repeatable. You might be right there, but I think lion and stonecloaker kinda exaggerate how strong the effect is a lot.
Chimes does work superbly well with sacred mesa and Eldrazi displacer so that's something to think about.
Seems like we probably have room for one of those cards in the 3 mana slot:
A couple other cards that probably need to be in the conversation there as far as mana goes are additional 2 mana rocks or Knight.
Gonna ruminate on that, really I guess for me comes down to whether I start feeling mana constrained and how good Boreas Charger is. Lately I've felt pretty good about my odds of getting Ephara turn 2-3 (almost every game).
I don't think thran dynamo belongs in the conversation obviously but it's more of a thing to compare to Smothering Tithe I think. Still not really 100% sure my evaluation of that card is right, but time will tell - hopefully we'll get some reports back of how people like it as I've got a lot of stuff to work on first.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I like Knight much better than Heart, but Knight has the issue of not really helping churn out T3 Ephara. I currently have 7 cards that help bring her out T3, and only Sol Ring to help bring her out T2. I'm not sure if I need more than that, but if I were to slot more 2CMC mana card it would probably be Walking Atlas and only then Knight.
Looking forward to hearing how that goes!
So I run Mana Crypt and Ancient Tomb as some bigger mana generation, so I think maybe I want it less. I'd really have to think about whether Mana Vault is better than any of those cards too, despite its shortcomings it enables a turn 2 ephara.
The ramp package is one of the hardest things to get right in this deck because if you overdo it especially with non-creatures you can stall out quite easily.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Lands
-nothing new here
artifacts
Nothing new
White
Angel of Grace is pretty interesting. If it had the full text of Angel's Grace I would probably give it a try. As is it's not good enough. The flash body is pretty relevant though. If the from GY ability said "becomes half your starting life total" I'd also give it a thought as part of intuition packages. But falls short in too many spots.
Lumbering Battlement is definitely a strong card, but suffers from too expensive and not having flash. I could see a more ETB focused build going deep on this card with cards like Archaeomancer - blinking this card with Displacer could be a way to set up a number of lockdown scenarios (e.g. stonehorn dignitary+some other value card under the battlement).
Hero of Precinct One is a powerful effect that just doesn't quite line up with our deck. In a controlly shell with lots of multicolored instants and sorceries I could see this being an engine -- kind of a Monastery Mentor + Ojutai Exemplars type of build. I don't know if it's good but I could envision it.
Ministrant of Obligation seems to go infinite with Nim Deathmantle and Ashnod's Altar which is a powerful scenario. I could see that type of combo package being worth considering (since deathmantle and Altar are both pretty strong cards). Making infinite colorless and infinite tokens is pretty good in a 3 card combo.
Resolute Watchdog is a pretty powerful ranger of Eos card--much more flexible than Dauntless bodyguard.
Smothering Tithe we have discussed but I Think it is a clutch card in an artifact build.
Tithe Taker is quite powerful for 2 mana, worth considering. Probably not on my shortlist though due to the narrowness.
Blue
Sadly nothin really interesting to me.
Azorius
Lavinia, Azorius Renegade - this is probably the only shoe in for my deck in the set. I really like her ability.
Deputy of Detention is a reasonable consideration. I don't love it because of not being reveillarkable or recruiterable and having a targeting restriction.
Dovin, Grand Arbiter - A pretty powerful effect, able to be brought back with Sun Titan. Antyhing that makes tokens every turn with no mana investment is worth thinking about. The ultimate is not amazing but it is pretty easy to achieve with all our evasive critters. I probably will try him at some point just for the efficiency. Not sure what the cut would be, but it could be any 3 mana creature.
Summary
I was at first super excited but the set turned out to be kind of a bust. Lavinia is the only card I am particularly interested in, though the more I think about it trying to police people on her effect sounds kinda unfun.
I guess a bust is a harsh way to say it, but the first two hatebears (tithe taker and lavinia) gave me some hope we'd have an autoinclude at least
There's a lot of neat tech for EDH but most of it isn't in our colors. I wish they would start printing hatebears a little more aggressively. We could use a one sided torpor orb bear for sure (even if it cost 4), or a "cast trigger" bear that shuts off everything triggering on casts would be pretty fun.
The most exciting thing about this set for me is probably dropping Linvala on all the people running Prime Speaker Vannifar
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
On his own he's great at getting rid of enemy commanders and token swarms, as well as whatever most troubles us at the moment. Also synergizes well with the Riptide Laboratory I just slotted in.
What I'm really looking forward to, though, is flashing in Containment Priest and bouncing this guy with the Cloudstone Curio trigger. It might only work against creatures, but man is that great. Not to mention replaying DoD will bounce the Priest back and protect it, so the combo can start all over again.
Dovin, Grand Arbiter works stupidly well in a token shell. Thopter Spy Network, Sharding Sphinx, stuff like that. He might be somewhat abusable for Ephara, but definitely not better than something like Sacred Mesa. If you're running a thopter shell this guy is great though.
I'd like your opinion on something, though. Inventors' Fair is raising doubts in my mind. The reason we include it is because of the artifact tutor ability, but it needs metalcraft. My deck runs around 15ish of those, which feels like it might not be enough. The ability robbing us of 5 lands is another drawback, as well as the land not producing any colored mana. How does it perform for you? How troublesome is the requirement? What do you usually fetch with it?
Look forward to hearing how Deputy is. It definitely has some uses.
I think there is almost surely a thopter+artifacts deck out there for ephara man. Dovin is very good in it too.
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So far, Inventor's Fair has only won me one game. Most of the time it sits around not wanting to spend 5 mana on it (or not having metalcraft).
One game I tutored up a curio I needed to get the lockdown going (after wayfaring for it). Being able to Wayfarer for an artifact is a powerful endgame tool.
In another game I got an ostone with it and it kept me in the game but did not win it.
I am really hit or miss on it, but I need colorless sources to support displacer. I am not sure what I would swap it out for. Maybe High Market to help do more damage with theft effects, I dunno.
The mana cost is really high for sure.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall