Quote from HP_CR »Hall of Gemstone is a really killer in mono-G. I use Glacial Chasm to great effect in my Seton. Looks like a solid list. Maybe Stunted Growth?
Quote from balangaz »Reap and Sow is also a good card as it can fetch anything you may need, it's sorta like another Primal Command.
Quote from bunbunfriedrice »I think 40 is a lot of land, if you play with partial Paris rules at least. I run 32 in Omnath, and mulligan pretty aggresively.
Depending on your meta, you might also want some more "fast start" cards: Exploration, Burgeoning, Mana Crypt. Also Nature's Lore and Three Visits. I aim for T4-5 win, and I've found fast starts to be necessary. But you might need more card advantage for that to work.
I run Also Llanowar Elves and friends, but that's largely for a T2 Omnath.
I love tutors, and Natural Order is one of the strongest.
I think Solemn Simulacrum is actually too slow in mono-G, but that's just me. You might want High Market as a sacrifice outlet, especially if you run Simulacrum.
What's the Lonely Island (no pun intended) doing there?
I'm curious to hear how Earthcraft performs, as I don't run it in mono-G.
Also Search for Tomorrow is good ramp, especially since you don't really have many 1 drops.
Terastodon is great removal, especially if you run Kozilek over Ulamog. Woodfall Primus is good removal too, especially with sac outlets like High Market or Greater Good.
Quote from Frostdragon4 »Rings of Brightearth
That will allow you to have:
1. Infinite combo with your lands
2. Get more gas out of lady luck
I like Earthcraft generally with token decks and mana ramp, I've had good times with it in Marath.
Quote from bunbunfriedrice »Excellent responses!
A word about Hall of Gemstone. It obviously can be quite strong, and even shuts down some decks. But honestly, it's kind of a lame move, it's useless against mono-colored decks, has no synergy with, etc. It's like an Iona that you don't have to work for. Anyway, people might not want to play you. Multicolor decks usually have ways around it through artifacts/creatures. I just think there are classier ways to win. And my meta is cutthroat.
I see why you may not want Llanowar Elves and friends. Again, they're mostly for my T2 Omnath. (I'm starting to notice my replies are all biased since I just play Omnath!) I'm also jealous that you get 5 additional card slots for not running them
I still like 2 CMC ramp. Well, just the good ones: Nature's Lore and Three Visits. I'm usually happier to see those than the 4 CMC ones (except Skyshroud Claim of course!)
Yes, 39 lands is good for regular Paris. I run 32, and it's risky, but it does make big draw spells (Garruk, Greater Good, etc.) really potent. And it weakens Exploration and friends, but again I mostly have those for quick ramp. Basically, I try to ramp hard enough to get a big card refill spell. Then I go for the win. Exploration et al are actually not bad top-decks when you draw 5+ cards at a time.
Earthcraft is an interesting choice--thanks for the analysis. I never liked Ant Queen, but I've always liked Earthcraft as a card. Is it effective without mana doublers? In Freyalise, it gives Elves haste, but otherwise? With Zendikar it's also potent. I just don't like relying on effects like, "it's great if you have a mana doubler." But again perhaps that's because I play Omnath. You don't need another piece with a mana doubler. A fresh turn with a mana doubler alone will probably win you the game.
On that note, Doubling Cube is an interesting "mana doubler." It's much more potent in Omnath.
I've found Soul of New Phyrexia to be an interesting trick. It's my favorite card to hideaway with Mosswort Bridge
Unless I'm missing something, Rampaging Baloths seems bad. How many cards do you expect to draw with it?
I'd say no on Regrowth. If anything, go big with Praetor's Counsel
I think Stunted Growth seems like a 1v1 card. If you don't like Terastodon, this card is way dirtier. And kind of a mean card like Gemonstone.
Summoner's Pact is also really good. Play it the turn you win for whatever you need (i.e. Craterhoof :P)
I'd cut Spike Weaver. If you can't win in combat, you're doing it wrong. (Clearly an overgeneralization, but also maybe somewhat true??)
I agree with your listed cuts. I'd make the following replacements:
Solemn Simulacrum --> Hunting Wilds
Bane of Progress --> Wave of Virtriol (New cards--it's insane. Not tutorable but... man it's powerful.)
Wickerbough Elder --> Exploration (or Burgeoning)
Reclamation Sage --> Lotus Cobra (Trust me!! haha)
Farhaven Elf --> Natural Order (I think the elf is too slow, and you should not be short on tutors.)
Forest --> Mana Crypt (Even if it's just for an "ideal" decklist.)
These are more personal choices; I wouldn't necessarily argue they're "just better", but I just prefer these swaps:
Acidic Slime --> Ulamog (go big! Do what green can't do! (sshhhh Desert Twister, shhh...)
Beast Within --> Terastodon (BW is not tutorable so I don't like it.)
Birthing Pod --> Summoner's Pact (Do you have a set Birthing Pod chain? If not I would ditch it. Avenger --> Craterhoof is good, but Tooth and Nail does that trick ;))
Spike Weaver --> Soul of New Phyrexia
Might also want to try Sylvan Offering (new card). It's a free spell with an untapped Gaea's Cradle. It's also free with Earthcraft!
Also, Titania is really strong in general. Entices against Armageddons, differently than Kamahl. Kamahl + 'geddon = bad for opponent. Titania + 'geddon = good for you.
Keep the discussion going! I'm making considerations for Omnath here too They're quite similar. Here's a Google Doc of my decklist: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u8YTpMHjOmT5P3m4Iq9xI6-D54Id5Vt2tn8XGxuUoUo/edit#gid=2008752590
Quote from bunbunfriedrice »Ah sorry about that, it was a different mono-G thread I was having to convince someone of Lotus Cobra!
Good point about Farhaven and T4. Again, I'm used to early ramp so, T4 Freyalise should be almost worst-case scenario. I'd go for T3
Makes sense about Beast Within--it's definitely a great card. Since I go for as fast as possible, I don't run it or even All Is Dust or Oblivion Stone. My removal suite is Terastodon, Woodfall Primus (great in Omnath, since I have lots of sac outlets, like Life's Legacy, Momentous Fall), Duplicant, Ulamog, Krosan Grip (important in my meta to stop infinite combos).
Yea makes sense about mana doubler being effective same-turn. That's a huge downside I've noticed with Omnath. I'm always preoccupied thinking, "Don't blow up my Mana Reflection, don't blow up my Mana Reflection..." I'm a big fan of keeping things going same-turn in EDH. Earthcraft is DEFINITELY an enabler of that. Man, Hermit Druid is good with Earthcraft too. I'll have to test it. Again, thanks!
Quote from blueblazesnova »The list looks solid, but what are your win cons of the deck? Might I suggest Triumph of the Hordes?
Quote from BlackVise »Quote from Slivortal »The deck contains a single infinite combo in the following: Ant Queen + Earthcraft + mana doubler/Doubling Season + mana doubler/Doubling Season/Gaea's Cradle for infinite mana and tokens.
If you're not against using infinite combos, have you considered Squirrel Nest to make that combo a little easier?
Also, Altar of Dementia has been a pretty hilarious win condition in my own Freyalise deck, provided your meta isn't packed full of Eldrazi.
Quote from Slivortal »The deck contains a single infinite combo in the following: Ant Queen + Earthcraft + mana doubler/Doubling Season + mana doubler/Doubling Season/Gaea's Cradle for infinite mana and tokens.
Quote from BlackVise »Squirrel Nest can be pretty bad at times, but I've always enjoyed using it just to make some Skullclamp fodder or chump blockers.
Altar of Dementia I'll agree is a pretty bad card, but when throwing down an army of tokens I try to win instantly rather than leaving myself open to sorcery speed removal until my next turn. I know I could run Concordant Crossroads to get around that but in all honesty I see that as just as bad most of the time, and even worse it can actually help opponents.
I'm not at a computer at the moment so I've not got my entire Freyalise list to hand, but the idea of the deck is to get Freyalise out early with ramp and mana dorks (turn 3 is ideal), then drop some Stax cards, and then ramp and draw into a way to create a ton of tokens. It's quite different to my Hua Tuo list, but the main similarity is the attempt to avoid the combat phase.
Quote from BlackVise »Quote from Slivortal »Any chance I could see your list?
Here you go! There's still a lot of room for improvement, and the more I play it the more I'm considering removing some of the Stax pieces (Smokestack, Imi Statue), one or two of the untappers, and Altar of Dementia, which would then leave me with a few slots to play with. Considerations for the slots currently are Staff of Domination, Blasting Station and Thousand-Year Elixir.
Anyway, here's the current list:
Slivortal's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Commander:1 Freyalise, Llanowar's FuryCreatures:1 Arbor Elf1 Boreal Druid1 Courser of Kruphix1 Devoted Druid1 Elvish Archdruid1 Elvish Mystic1 Farhaven Elf1 Gilt-Leaf Archdruid1 Heart Warden1 Joraga Treespeaker1 Juniper Order Druid1 Karametra's Acolyte1 Krosan Restorer1 Llanowar Elves1 Magus of the Library1 Oracle of Mul Daya1 Priest of Titania1 Primordial Sage1 Sakura-Tribe Elder1 Soul of the Harvest1 Voyaging Satyr1 Wirewood Channeler1 Wolfbriar Elemental1 Wood Elves1 Yavimaya ElderArtifacts:1 Altar of Dementia1 Crucible of Worlds1 Imi Statue1 Meekstone1 Skullclamp1 Smokestack1 Tangle Wire1 The Chain Veil1 Torpor Orb1 Winter OrbEnchantments:1 Doubling Season1 Elephant Grass1 Epic Struggle1 Hall of Gemstone1 Mana Reflection1 Parallel Lives1 Primal Vigor1 Root Maze1 Sylvan LibraryInstants:1 Beast Within1 Chord of Calling1 Krosan Grip1 Nature's ClaimSorceries:1 Genesis Wave1 Green Sun's Zenith1 Harmonize1 Natural Order1 Nature's Lore1 Regrowth1 Search for Tomorrow1 Skyshroud Claim1 Sylvan Scrying1 Three VisitsPlaneswalkers:1 Garruk Wildspeaker1 Nissa, WorldwakerLands:1 Deserted Temple29 Forest1 Gaea's Cradle1 Maze of Ith1 Misty Rainforest1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx1 Verdant Catacombs1 Windswept Heath1 Wooded Foothills1 Yavimaya Hollow
Quote from Slivortal »Any chance I could see your list?
Quote from blueblazesnova »What about Glaring Spotlight to make all those tokens unblockable?
Quote from bwv1056 »Is there any particular reason you are only running 2 fetches, or are they they only green fetches that you own? If its the latter, more fetches could really help consistency. They are great landfall triggers for cobra and baloths, and their shuffle can be game changing with oracle or top in play. You could also consider Titania, protector of argoth if you ran more fetches, though I don't know how powerful she would be in your particular deck. Seems potentially powerful with doubling season, earthcraft, and greater good, but she would obviously be best with crucible + azusa shenanigans. For these reasons I might also consider crucible of worlds. At the very least it serves as backup for your cradle, which probably doesn't last more than one rotation in a developed meta.
I think a hate package could be powerful, but it really depends on your meta. So I would consider including both hall of gemstone and null rod if you want to pursue this route. Certain decks simply lose to either of these spells being resolved, and with Freyalise as your general you can naturalize your own rod if you feel that you can go off with clamp or if you need to emergency O-stone.
Sylvan scrying is strong if you are trying to become more comboey but it otherwise seems pretty weak. If you already have cradle its mostly dead, but I suppose you cant really complain if you already have cradle in play, and it can always still be dumped to greater good.
Also, have you tested Genesis Hydra? I like it in some decks because, even without dumping all of you mana into him, you always have hosers or combo pieces to look for. Digging into any variety of greater good, earthcraft, skullclamp, etc. can be very powerful. You do have a high concentration of non-permanent ramp spells, so there is a possibility that he could whiff, and he can really screw you over if you spend your whole turn casting him just to get garbage/nothing.
I have never had any personal success with Genesis. He is expensive and dead if you can't dump him early. And even then, I usually find myself more interested in casting actual spells than getting moderate advantage off recurring wood elves or something. Would not include.
Mana crypt if not for the obvious monetary restrictions