DO you have an issue with people trying to clear out your enchantments? If possibility storm is ever removed how do you go about getting it back from the graveyard?
Also how do you not lose Mishra to spreading plague if another player plays a creature with one of the colors from mishra?
DO you have an issue with people trying to clear out your enchantments? If possibility storm is ever removed how do you go about getting it back from the graveyard?
I dont play all the enchants at once. Normally i play with 1 in play at a time. If i have 2 in hand, say possibility storm AND nether void, i simply hold one until someone deals with the first one. Once they are in the grave, its very hard to retrieve them with grixis short of effects like elixir of immortality + tutors, which i dont like to run in this deck.
Also how do you not lose Mishra to spreading plague if another player plays a creature with one of the colors from mishra?
So i am still experimenting with spreading plague, its a recent addition to the deck. Simply put, if i have Spreading plague out, i let it do its work. I dont play into it with mishra, and if i have him out first, i weigh that threat. If i dont have a synergy with mishra out, i play plague and let others kill off all the creatures over and over, and part with mishrafor the time being. If i have a synergy with mishra out (such as possibility storm or planar chaos, i hold onto it until i need it. Its a case by case card really, i treat it like a board wipe when i play it.
Hey I've been following this off and on for a few months. Didn't have much to add personally, But I really like the archetype. Now I've started the process of building the deck and learning the mechanics (this one seems a bit more complex then general aggro lol) and I've run into a question of curiosity. If say Possibility Storm. gets sent to the graveyard, how do we get it back? I'm probably missing something and I know it's not a game breaker but it does seem to be a pretty heavy component of the generalized strategy.
Pretty sure the only solid way to get enchantments from the graveyard is via Crystal Chimes, codex shredder, and skull of orm. Since we do not run white we are super limited in what we can do...outside of crystal chimes cards like elixir of immortality, feldon's cane, and thran foundry will work but you'll need tutors to get back your enchantments from your library. Honestly the best cards I think that we can use are codex shredder or skull of orm. I prefer codex since my play group has a few players who like to use top deck cards to draw cards that they need. Codex helps cramp their plays and I can use the second ability to pretty much get anything from my graveyard if needed; including enchantments. If your play group is locking your enchantments down then I would maybe suggest skull of orm.
Honestly, I've just have a easy time using goblin welder, artifact land, crucible of worlds, and codex shredder. I use shredder to get what I need from the graveyard, goblin welder my artifact land to get my shredder back and use crucible of worlds to get my saced land back.
As ceiith has covered, there simply arent a lot of ways to retrieve enchants from the grave in Mishra. I have covered Crystal Chimes in the cards to consider section; though codex shredder may be worth playing. I have no experience running it. It is pretty pricey for its effect, but at least its something. I cannot get behind skull of orm - 8 mana to retrieve a card is just too much, especially a not game ending card.
Something to remember is that our asymmetrical chaos effects are to set us up for the win, they arent critical to the win. Also, its VERY hard to remove a card like possibility storm, since your opponents no longer get to use the spell of their choice, and are stuck with whatever is ontop of their deck; and chaos warp has a chance of protecting itself. Really, these cards are lightning rods that synergize with our general that enable us to frustrate our opponents while we forward our own goals.
Honestly, I've just have a easy time using goblin welder, artifact land, crucible of worlds, and codex shredder. I use shredder to get what I need from the graveyard, goblin welder my artifact land to get my shredder back and use crucible of worlds to get my saced land back.
that'd definitely work, and the deck is completely capable of doing that, but thats 4 cards and 5 mana to bring back an enchant to hand. a TON of effort for a card that is meant to buy us time to establish our win condition.
since this question has come up a few times, I am going to add it to the FAQs
-=EDIT=-
also, how silly of me to forget; but Welcome to fold Ceiith and Phoenix_Wombat! there arent a lot of us mishra players around, but there are some good philosophical debates in this chat, so stay a while and enjoy the most fun commander in the format!
As ceiith has covered, there simply arent a lot of ways to retrieve enchants from the grave in Mishra. I have covered Crystal Chimes in the cards to consider section; though codex shredder may be worth playing. I have no experience running it. It is pretty pricey for its effect, but at least its something. I cannot get behind skull of orm - 8 mana to retrieve a card is just too much, especially a not game ending card.
Something to remember is that our asymmetrical chaos effects are to set us up for the win, they arent critical to the win. Also, its VERY hard to remove a card like possibility storm, since your opponents no longer get to use the spell of their choice, and are stuck with whatever is ontop of their deck; and chaos warp has a chance of protecting itself. Really, these cards are lightning rods that synergize with our general that enable us to frustrate our opponents while we forward our own goals.
Honestly, I've just have a easy time using goblin welder, artifact land, crucible of worlds, and codex shredder. I use shredder to get what I need from the graveyard, goblin welder my artifact land to get my shredder back and use crucible of worlds to get my saced land back.
that'd definitely work, and the deck is completely capable of doing that, but thats 4 cards and 5 mana to bring back an enchant to hand. a TON of effort for a card that is meant to buy us time to establish our win condition.
since this question has come up a few times, I am going to add it to the FAQs
-=EDIT=-
also, how silly of me to forget; but Welcome to fold Ceiith and Phoenix_Wombat! there arent a lot of us mishra players around, but there are some good philosophical debates in this chat, so stay a while and enjoy the most fun commander in the format!
Thanks for having me. I'll take B/U/R Commanders for $400 Alex.
I was just wondering in case it gets countered when I Initially try to get it on the field.
I will be honest. I'm technically "new" to EDH. I built one deck before with Rhys the Redeemed as my commander. Ended up playing like 3 games and absolutely hated the turn 3 strategies that all the local EDH players seemed to be running. So I decided this isn't worth my time and then put it down for about the last 2 years. Then I was searching through my cards and saw Mishra and thought to myself "This card would be an awful EDH commander" then it dawned on me that if I think its bad, then someone has likely figured out how to break it. So I typed in Mishra EDH and this was the top search. And I really really like the overall strategy. Hell even if I even if I don't end up winning this still seems like it would be fun to play.
As ceiith has covered, there simply arent a lot of ways to retrieve enchants from the grave in Mishra. I have covered Crystal Chimes in the cards to consider section; though codex shredder may be worth playing. I have no experience running it. It is pretty pricey for its effect, but at least its something. I cannot get behind skull of orm - 8 mana to retrieve a card is just too much, especially a not game ending card.
Yeah I agree. 8 mana is a lot to recover a card that is not game ending. I was just showing an option that not many people seem to know that card is around. That's another reason why I like codex so much. Yeah it is 1 mana to drop it, but it has an effect that you can use right away to mess with top decks; heck you can even use it on your own deck if you use future sight and the top card isn't something you need/want at the time. The best thing about codex is that I don't seem to have many people in my play group wanting to "waste" a removal spell to get rid of it unless I am annoying a player by constantly removing their top card or something drops in my graveyard that someone doesn't want me to get back. However; another thing that I like codex over chimes and orm... is codex can get any card from your graveyard. Hurkyl's recall or Cyclonic rift in your graveyard and you have Mycosynth lattice in play? Sac codex to get recall or rift into your hand and wipe your opponent's board. Someone destroyed your academy ruins? Sac codex to get the ruins back so you can start recovering your artifacts from your graveyard.
[quote]Something to remember is that our asymmetrical chaos effects are to set us up for the win, they arent critical to the win. Also, its VERY hard to remove a card like possibility storm, since your opponents no longer get to use the spell of their choice, and are stuck with whatever is ontop of their deck; and chaos warp has a chance of protecting itself. Really, these cards are lightning rods that synergize with our general that enable us to frustrate our opponents while we forward our own goals.
Yeah you nailed it. Chaos effects are not going to win the game. They are to slow down our opponents and allow us to play our artifacts that will win the game. Blightsteel colossus and wurmcoil engine can get our of control especially if you have mirrorworks in play. To be honest with my deck my main win conditions are: blightsteel, wurmcoil, Tezzeret the seeker's -5 with lattice or a ton of artifacts in play, bludgeon brawl, and Jace, the mind sculptor's -12. Planeswalkers are actually super easy to ult if you have your chaos effects on board. There has been a few games where planar chaos was on the board for 4+ turns and it allowed me to use Jace a ton of times.
that'd definitely work, and the deck is completely capable of doing that, but thats 4 cards and 5 mana to bring back an enchant to hand. a TON of effort for a card that is meant to buy us time to establish our win condition.
Yeah but you don't HAVE to have all those cards. if you draw codex you can use it right away to get something out of your graveyard. The other pieces of the combo can come later if needed but they are not required. If someone is going to use codex to get something from the graveyard you SHOULD get a card that either wins the game right away or gives you some type of advantage over your opponents. My top cards to recover are: blightsteel if it somehow got in your graveyard, Tezzeret if my board state can protect him long enough to -5 all my artifacts, and of course cyclonic rift. If I had to get back an enchantment it would probably be rhystic study since the card advantage you get from that card is insane since no one wants to pay the tax lol.
One question for you LordRewind, what has helped your deck more. Nether void or Mishra's workshop? Reason why I am asking is because I am attempting to save up for those cards and want to pick up the one that effects the deck more. Kind of leaning toward Nether void but I wanted to ask what has helped you more.
As ceiith has covered, there simply arent a lot of ways to retrieve enchants from the grave in Mishra. I have covered Crystal Chimes in the cards to consider section; though codex shredder may be worth playing. I have no experience running it. It is pretty pricey for its effect, but at least its something. I cannot get behind skull of orm - 8 mana to retrieve a card is just too much, especially a not game ending card.
Yeah I agree. 8 mana is a lot to recover a card that is not game ending. I was just showing an option that not many people seem to know that card is around. That's another reason why I like codex so much. Yeah it is 1 mana to drop it, but it has an effect that you can use right away to mess with top decks; heck you can even use it on your own deck if you use future sight and the top card isn't something you need/want at the time. The best thing about codex is that I don't seem to have many people in my play group wanting to "waste" a removal spell to get rid of it unless I am annoying a player by constantly removing their top card or something drops in my graveyard that someone doesn't want me to get back. However; another thing that I like codex over chimes and orm... is codex can get any card from your graveyard. Hurkyl's recall or Cyclonic rift in your graveyard and you have Mycosynth lattice in play? Sac codex to get recall or rift into your hand and wipe your opponent's board. Someone destroyed your academy ruins? Sac codex to get the ruins back so you can start recovering your artifacts from your graveyard.
[quote]Something to remember is that our asymmetrical chaos effects are to set us up for the win, they arent critical to the win. Also, its VERY hard to remove a card like possibility storm, since your opponents no longer get to use the spell of their choice, and are stuck with whatever is ontop of their deck; and chaos warp has a chance of protecting itself. Really, these cards are lightning rods that synergize with our general that enable us to frustrate our opponents while we forward our own goals.
Yeah you nailed it. Chaos effects are not going to win the game. They are to slow down our opponents and allow us to play our artifacts that will win the game. Blightsteel colossus and wurmcoil engine can get our of control especially if you have mirrorworks in play. To be honest with my deck my main win conditions are: blightsteel, wurmcoil, Tezzeret the seeker's -5 with lattice or a ton of artifacts in play, bludgeon brawl, and Jace, the mind sculptor's -12. Planeswalkers are actually super easy to ult if you have your chaos effects on board. There has been a few games where planar chaos was on the board for 4+ turns and it allowed me to use Jace a ton of times.
that'd definitely work, and the deck is completely capable of doing that, but thats 4 cards and 5 mana to bring back an enchant to hand. a TON of effort for a card that is meant to buy us time to establish our win condition.
Yeah but you don't HAVE to have all those cards. if you draw codex you can use it right away to get something out of your graveyard. The other pieces of the combo can come later if needed but they are not required. If someone is going to use codex to get something from the graveyard you SHOULD get a card that either wins the game right away or gives you some type of advantage over your opponents. My top cards to recover are: blightsteel if it somehow got in your graveyard, Tezzeret if my board state can protect him long enough to -5 all my artifacts, and of course cyclonic rift. If I had to get back an enchantment it would probably be rhystic study since the card advantage you get from that card is insane since no one wants to pay the tax lol.
One question for you LordRewind, what has helped your deck more. Nether void or Mishra's workshop? Reason why I am asking is because I am attempting to save up for those cards and want to pick up the one that effects the deck more. Kind of leaning toward Nether void but I wanted to ask what has helped you more.
And thank you for the welcome!
Granted I'm no expert but I would guess Nether Void as well, it directly feeds the chaos, Mishra's Workshop is just delicious icing on an already fantastic cake
Thanks for having me. I'll take B/U/R Commanders for $400 Alex.
I was just wondering in case it gets countered when I Initially try to get it on the field.
I will be honest. I'm technically "new" to EDH. I built one deck before with Rhys the Redeemed as my commander. Ended up playing like 3 games and absolutely hated the turn 3 strategies that all the local EDH players seemed to be running. So I decided this isn't worth my time and then put it down for about the last 2 years. Then I was searching through my cards and saw Mishra and thought to myself "This card would be an awful EDH commander" then it dawned on me that if I think its bad, then someone has likely figured out how to break it. So I typed in Mishra EDH and this was the top search. And I really really like the overall strategy. Hell even if I even if I don't end up winning this still seems like it would be fun to play.
So just gonna throw this out there - if you are facing decks that win on turn 3, you have a seriously steep ask ahead of you. Even a competitive storm combo Mishra build isn't going off until turn 5-7. Are you playing with a new circle? If you can stabilize with this build (turn 4 or 5), you can give them a fun game - but just be known, even a big money build like mine isn't going to match hardcore competitive opponents. I would recommend running a control variant since they sound like combo decks, focus on splashable counterspells like Delay, Arcane Denial, Remand - counters that dont require UU or 3 mana - then try to establish mana rocks and ice cave if your meta is that intense. I would turtle up behind the wall of counter magic while establishing mana rocks, slowly dropping tutors to piece together my game ending synergies. Remember, magic is kinda like rock paper scissors. Aggro beat down tends to beat out control by producing too many threats. Control tends to lock out combos by stopping lynch pins. Combo tends to blow away aggro beat down before losing all 40 life.
One question for you LordRewind, what has helped your deck more. Nether void or Mishra's workshop? Reason why I am asking is because I am attempting to save up for those cards and want to pick up the one that effects the deck more. Kind of leaning toward Nether void but I wanted to ask what has helped you more.
And thank you for the welcome!
You have made a great case for codex shredder; let me give you one more: Goblin Welder. If you have Sensei's Divining top in play, or Crystal Ball if you are in that camp, you can mill yourself and weld big power artifacts into play. Definitely an interesting card, please let me know if you experiment with it and get some good mileage out of it. I am not sold myself yet, but I can see potential value if the setup is right. Pretty sure somewhere in this thread theres a post where i describe getting milled early and welding a big old gnarly Steel Hellkite into play on turn 3 or so, which is a game ending play (who is another win condition i'd recommend for you).
As for what card was more value? Nether Void has closed games for me. I would recommend Nether Void to anyone who can afford it. Definitely the more clutch card. Sometimes I'll pop Darksteel forge and Nevinyrral's Disk into opponents with Darksteel Ingots and Darksteel Citadels - Dropping Nether Void says you are done. Also its much cheaper AND synergizes with our commander. Plus it is just a god damn beautiful card. I am a huge classic rock and love the led zeppelin vibe i get from it.
That said, I lived the dream with Mishra's Workshop last weekend against 2 friends when i was playing a three for all. I was playing with my friends, Jeff and John, and this is how my game went:
Proceed to deal 7 damage a turn ramping out of control and gaining life. it was glorious.
All in all, i would say expensive cards wise, i love them all. But the old school duals arent as important as fetch lands. Mishra's workshop is nice, but not a MUST have(i traded 4x tarmogoyfs for mine because ive given up major legacy tournaments). I got my Mishra's Workshop because I have grown known in my area for being the Mishra player, and it felt too iconic to not strive to have my own piece of Magic: The Gathering history. Also, having 2 incomes, no kids, and being a well paid computer program really enables me to throw money at cardboard. I would recommend these cards as pricier pick ups (20+ singles); in this order of value:
Metalworker
Blightsteel Colossus
Nether Void
Guardian Beast (basically lets you combo 1x without forge if you lose it)
Played Grixis in standard. Play Grixis in Modern. I needed a new, fun, and innovative deck to play when I decided to get into commander. This was definitely the guy for me. I love having to pull out combo pieces to make people understand why Mishra isn't useless in EDH. Then their faces either light up or frown depending on how they feel on dirty cards like Possibility Storm. Also have had fun shaping this build to my own taste and budgeting certain cards.
Thanks for having me. I'll take B/U/R Commanders for $400 Alex.
I was just wondering in case it gets countered when I Initially try to get it on the field.
I will be honest. I'm technically "new" to EDH. I built one deck before with Rhys the Redeemed as my commander. Ended up playing like 3 games and absolutely hated the turn 3 strategies that all the local EDH players seemed to be running. So I decided this isn't worth my time and then put it down for about the last 2 years. Then I was searching through my cards and saw Mishra and thought to myself "This card would be an awful EDH commander" then it dawned on me that if I think its bad, then someone has likely figured out how to break it. So I typed in Mishra EDH and this was the top search. And I really really like the overall strategy. Hell even if I even if I don't end up winning this still seems like it would be fun to play.
If you are having those issues with turn 3 wins I would suggest also throwing in some 2 mana counterspells for control. Might even want to try Isochron Scepter and remand or Arcane Denial to lock out combos or just use arcane to constantly counter your own artifacts and draw 3 cards the next upkeep if you want the draw engine. It really depends on how bad your group is able to pull off the turn 3 combos. The worse it is keep adding the 2 CMC counters until you find a good balance that can stop/slow the turn 3 wins. Might even want to consider force of will if you have one laying around.
Thanks for having me. I'll take B/U/R Commanders for $400 Alex.
I was just wondering in case it gets countered when I Initially try to get it on the field.
I will be honest. I'm technically "new" to EDH. I built one deck before with Rhys the Redeemed as my commander. Ended up playing like 3 games and absolutely hated the turn 3 strategies that all the local EDH players seemed to be running. So I decided this isn't worth my time and then put it down for about the last 2 years. Then I was searching through my cards and saw Mishra and thought to myself "This card would be an awful EDH commander" then it dawned on me that if I think its bad, then someone has likely figured out how to break it. So I typed in Mishra EDH and this was the top search. And I really really like the overall strategy. Hell even if I even if I don't end up winning this still seems like it would be fun to play.
If you are having those issues with turn 3 wins I would suggest also throwing in some 2 mana counterspells for control. Might even want to try Isochron Scepter and remand or Arcane Denial to lock out combos or just use arcane to constantly counter your own artifacts and draw 3 cards the next upkeep if you want the draw engine. It really depends on how bad your group is able to pull off the turn 3 combos. The worse it is keep adding the 2 CMC counters until you find a good balance that can stop/slow the turn 3 wins. Might even want to consider force of will if you have one laying around.
lol nah haven't had a force just laying around for probably 10 years. And I do already have Arcane Denial in my deck as suggested. Isochron's and/or Remand though aren't bad ideas and as an added bonus Remand is crazy cheap atm. Not sure how the local meta may have evolved, honestly haven't even really watched an EDH game as of late to know if people may have gone more lax so the games take longer. I've heard of players either having a more low powered EDH next to a competitive one or simply having a sideboard of competitive power cards that they can switch out if they are playing more casually. Here's to hoping.
Man I really need to start posting on the Mishra site more often. I got some more altars in which has been nice. Otherwise I am currently in the process of overhauling my version of the deck so I'll have more to post in the coming weeks.
Man I really need to start posting on the Mishra site more often. I got some more altars in which has been nice. Otherwise I am currently in the process of overhauling my version of the deck so I'll have more to post in the coming weeks.
That Basalt Isengard looks so clean! man, every time i look at your alters i get jealous. I am slowly trying my hand at some art myself, and am trying to alter my own mishra cards! This is my latest practice sketch.
I plan on doing a Mega Man theme, feature Doctor Wiley as Mishra and his robot masters as my cards (altering anything that is under 5 bucks NM value) Its slow goings though, apparently art is hard...and im not a great painter, so im learning techniques as i go.
Oh I like it. It really looks like it will come out nice. I'm currently getting quite a few cards done so I'm pumped for when these next ones get back.
in your experience is he fun to play with and against?
Play against? idk, I kinda am the only mishra player in my area, and at this point, it would look like a cheap imitation if someone brought one to the game. That said, he is the most fun general i have ever played. You hear lots of people talking about their "one" general, and for me, its Mishra.
Firstly, only reviewing cards that i would consider running.
Artifacts Aligned Hedron Network - Seems like a cool way to limit creature heavy builds against us, and with goblin welder, we can juggle it around to keep them locked out. Not ideal, but could work in a pinch. Hedron Archive - A midway point if Mind stone isnt enough and Dreamstone Hedron is too much. Between Commander's Sphere and Mind stone, i dont have much room for this ever...
All the eldrazi - Honestly, i dont like any of the new eldrazi better than Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. An eldrazi for this deck should be a fall back wincon, which i dont like these for. Void Winnower is cool, but not for this deck in my opinion.
Lands
Lag lands - Dual typing is cool, but i dont like them; I am shifting towards lands that are always untapped. Simply dont run enough basics that these are safe to play. Blighted Cataract - Enters play untapped, can turn into cards in the late game. This land i like and plan to playtest. Blighted Fen - potential. probably not good against aggro, but against voltron could be very powerful. Mortuary Mire - This very may well be a new black staple. Seems insanely good. That said, ETB tapped is a turn off. Sanctum of Ugin - Could be good in a battle cruiser artifact version of mishra, but i dont think it works ideally for us. Does combo nicely with Possibility storm, so it has a lot of potential. Shrine of the Forsaken Gods - No. A worse temple of the false god imo.
Colored Stuff: Ruination Guide - Potential for an aggro build; combined with other artifact lord-like effects could be useful. Tide Drifter - Not as good as Ruination guide, but could fit in an artifact army deck. Brutal Expulsion - nice tech against uncounterable effects; but probably wont stop many infinite combo decks from dropping the same bomb twice. Sire of Stagnation - Poor mans consecrated sphinx. if you've got room, he seems like a solid fit.
Hi LordRewind, I am in the process of building and tuninng my own Mishra deck thanks to your thread, this primer almost singlehandedly made me get into edh, because of dumb crazy stuff like this. I would like an opinion on my planes walker package I have. In my list I currently have daretti and rtr jace. Recently, I pulled a jace, vryns prodigy and I was thinking of putting it in my deck in place of the other jace, but the thought came to me of trading it for a Karn or using it to help me get a mind sculptor. So what walkers should I use, the 3 Jaces or Karn? Thanks.
Hi LordRewind, I am in the process of building and tuninng my own Mishra deck thanks to your thread, this primer almost singlehandedly made me get into edh, because of dumb crazy stuff like this.
I would like an opinion on my planes walker package I have. In my list I currently have daretti and rtr jace. Recently, I pulled a jace, vryns prodigy and I was thinking of putting it in my deck in place of the other jace, but the thought came to me of trading it for a Karn or using it to help me get a mind sculptor. So what walkers should I use, the 3 Jaces or Karn? Thanks.
Daretti, Scrap Savant and Mariachi Jace are both pretty solid cards for this deck. Currently, I lack my own copy of Karn Liberated, but i would very much like to have one. I am going to explain my thinking real quick, and hopefully that guides your decision.
Daretti, Scrap Savant - shouldnt even be in contention here. hes super awesome for this deck, and should be automatically included from this list of planeswalker options. He filters, letting us dig quickly for combo pieces if we need to. He can goblin welder for us, which is one of the strongest cards in the entire deck, and if he somehow makes it to his ultimate, he can make it so our artifacts are almost impossible to remove.
Jace, Architect of Thought - decent + against aggro, -2 isn't my favorite, -8 is great for mishra synergy fun. Not an ideal PW imo, since you'll rarely get his ultimate ability, and his others arent game changers. If you can protect him to drop his ultimate, hes worth it. If you cant, hes going to be underwhelming and eat up a turns worth of mana to play.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy//Jace, Telepath Unbound - Love card filters, but doesnt do us much beyond letting us dig for cards we need and pitch those we dont. His planeswalker mode isnt ideal: less defense on his +, and we dont run many instants and sorceries. His ultimate ability really isnt useful since we arent a mill strategy. Honestly, hes a merfolk looter to me. I'd trade him.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Amazing card. I run him in several edh decks. His + is a great control effect in a 1v1 situation. his 0 is the best spell in legacy. His -1 protects himself. His -12 wins games. That said, he wont live. If you drop him, expect to get one of the following, a 4 mana brainstorm, boomerang, or scry your opponent. Honestly, hes a big money card that can excel, but we simply dont have the dudes on the board to protect him from 3 opponents AND get mileage out of him.
Karn Liberated - honestly, the only strike against this guy is his mana cost. 6 loyalty is strong enough we can protect him. a +4 puts him at 10, making him very hard to kill, though its not super useful beyond slowing our opponents. -3 is where Karn shines. Grixis is not good at dealing with indestructible and enchantments. Sure, we have some outs like Spine of Ish Sah and tuck effects, but Karn is a huge help, especially since he exiles and isn't limited by any type, so he can help us with any problem. Finally, his ultimate (which again, you should never get to) can REALLY give you an edge in a game, if you feel like playing for 4 hours.
My opinion: Daretti + Karn. Save up and get a Tezzeret (both are good, i prefer seeker)
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Fixed it
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
In:
Badlands
Underground Sea - Moving some legacy lands from decks that are shelved into a deck i play every chance i get
Out:
Snow-Covered Mountain
Snow-Covered Island
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Also how do you not lose Mishra to spreading plague if another player plays a creature with one of the colors from mishra?
I dont play all the enchants at once. Normally i play with 1 in play at a time. If i have 2 in hand, say possibility storm AND nether void, i simply hold one until someone deals with the first one. Once they are in the grave, its very hard to retrieve them with grixis short of effects like elixir of immortality + tutors, which i dont like to run in this deck.
So i am still experimenting with spreading plague, its a recent addition to the deck. Simply put, if i have Spreading plague out, i let it do its work. I dont play into it with mishra, and if i have him out first, i weigh that threat. If i dont have a synergy with mishra out, i play plague and let others kill off all the creatures over and over, and part with mishrafor the time being. If i have a synergy with mishra out (such as possibility storm or planar chaos, i hold onto it until i need it. Its a case by case card really, i treat it like a board wipe when i play it.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Modern: B 8RACK B
EDH: BRU Mishra, Artificer Prodigy BRU, W Kemba, Kha Regent W, B Ghoulcaller Gisa B, BU Oona, Queen of the Fae BU, G Seton, Krosan Protector G, BW Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim BW, R Purphoros, God of the Forge R, UGW Arcades, the Strategist UGW, GW Karametra, God of Harvests GW, GU Edric, Spymaster of Trest GU, UW Grand Arbiter Augustin IV UW, BRW Kaalia of the Vast BRW, BRU Nekusar, the Mindrazer BRU, BGWU Thrasios, Triton Hero/Tymna the Weaver BGWU
Honestly, I've just have a easy time using goblin welder, artifact land, crucible of worlds, and codex shredder. I use shredder to get what I need from the graveyard, goblin welder my artifact land to get my shredder back and use crucible of worlds to get my saced land back.
Something to remember is that our asymmetrical chaos effects are to set us up for the win, they arent critical to the win. Also, its VERY hard to remove a card like possibility storm, since your opponents no longer get to use the spell of their choice, and are stuck with whatever is ontop of their deck; and chaos warp has a chance of protecting itself. Really, these cards are lightning rods that synergize with our general that enable us to frustrate our opponents while we forward our own goals.
that'd definitely work, and the deck is completely capable of doing that, but thats 4 cards and 5 mana to bring back an enchant to hand. a TON of effort for a card that is meant to buy us time to establish our win condition.
since this question has come up a few times, I am going to add it to the FAQs
-=EDIT=-
also, how silly of me to forget; but Welcome to fold Ceiith and Phoenix_Wombat! there arent a lot of us mishra players around, but there are some good philosophical debates in this chat, so stay a while and enjoy the most fun commander in the format!
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Thanks for having me. I'll take B/U/R Commanders for $400 Alex.
I was just wondering in case it gets countered when I Initially try to get it on the field.
I will be honest. I'm technically "new" to EDH. I built one deck before with Rhys the Redeemed as my commander. Ended up playing like 3 games and absolutely hated the turn 3 strategies that all the local EDH players seemed to be running. So I decided this isn't worth my time and then put it down for about the last 2 years. Then I was searching through my cards and saw Mishra and thought to myself "This card would be an awful EDH commander" then it dawned on me that if I think its bad, then someone has likely figured out how to break it. So I typed in Mishra EDH and this was the top search. And I really really like the overall strategy. Hell even if I even if I don't end up winning this still seems like it would be fun to play.
Modern: B 8RACK B
EDH: BRU Mishra, Artificer Prodigy BRU, W Kemba, Kha Regent W, B Ghoulcaller Gisa B, BU Oona, Queen of the Fae BU, G Seton, Krosan Protector G, BW Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim BW, R Purphoros, God of the Forge R, UGW Arcades, the Strategist UGW, GW Karametra, God of Harvests GW, GU Edric, Spymaster of Trest GU, UW Grand Arbiter Augustin IV UW, BRW Kaalia of the Vast BRW, BRU Nekusar, the Mindrazer BRU, BGWU Thrasios, Triton Hero/Tymna the Weaver BGWU
Yeah you nailed it. Chaos effects are not going to win the game. They are to slow down our opponents and allow us to play our artifacts that will win the game. Blightsteel colossus and wurmcoil engine can get our of control especially if you have mirrorworks in play. To be honest with my deck my main win conditions are: blightsteel, wurmcoil, Tezzeret the seeker's -5 with lattice or a ton of artifacts in play, bludgeon brawl, and Jace, the mind sculptor's -12. Planeswalkers are actually super easy to ult if you have your chaos effects on board. There has been a few games where planar chaos was on the board for 4+ turns and it allowed me to use Jace a ton of times.
Yeah but you don't HAVE to have all those cards. if you draw codex you can use it right away to get something out of your graveyard. The other pieces of the combo can come later if needed but they are not required. If someone is going to use codex to get something from the graveyard you SHOULD get a card that either wins the game right away or gives you some type of advantage over your opponents. My top cards to recover are: blightsteel if it somehow got in your graveyard, Tezzeret if my board state can protect him long enough to -5 all my artifacts, and of course cyclonic rift. If I had to get back an enchantment it would probably be rhystic study since the card advantage you get from that card is insane since no one wants to pay the tax lol.
One question for you LordRewind, what has helped your deck more. Nether void or Mishra's workshop? Reason why I am asking is because I am attempting to save up for those cards and want to pick up the one that effects the deck more. Kind of leaning toward Nether void but I wanted to ask what has helped you more.
And thank you for the welcome!
Granted I'm no expert but I would guess Nether Void as well, it directly feeds the chaos, Mishra's Workshop is just delicious icing on an already fantastic cake
Modern: B 8RACK B
EDH: BRU Mishra, Artificer Prodigy BRU, W Kemba, Kha Regent W, B Ghoulcaller Gisa B, BU Oona, Queen of the Fae BU, G Seton, Krosan Protector G, BW Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim BW, R Purphoros, God of the Forge R, UGW Arcades, the Strategist UGW, GW Karametra, God of Harvests GW, GU Edric, Spymaster of Trest GU, UW Grand Arbiter Augustin IV UW, BRW Kaalia of the Vast BRW, BRU Nekusar, the Mindrazer BRU, BGWU Thrasios, Triton Hero/Tymna the Weaver BGWU
You have made a great case for codex shredder; let me give you one more: Goblin Welder. If you have Sensei's Divining top in play, or Crystal Ball if you are in that camp, you can mill yourself and weld big power artifacts into play. Definitely an interesting card, please let me know if you experiment with it and get some good mileage out of it. I am not sold myself yet, but I can see potential value if the setup is right. Pretty sure somewhere in this thread theres a post where i describe getting milled early and welding a big old gnarly Steel Hellkite into play on turn 3 or so, which is a game ending play (who is another win condition i'd recommend for you).
As for what card was more value? Nether Void has closed games for me. I would recommend Nether Void to anyone who can afford it. Definitely the more clutch card. Sometimes I'll pop Darksteel forge and Nevinyrral's Disk into opponents with Darksteel Ingots and Darksteel Citadels - Dropping Nether Void says you are done. Also its much cheaper AND synergizes with our commander. Plus it is just a god damn beautiful card. I am a huge classic rock and love the led zeppelin vibe i get from it.
That said, I lived the dream with Mishra's Workshop last weekend against 2 friends when i was playing a three for all. I was playing with my friends, Jeff and John, and this is how my game went:
Win dice roll, going first.
Turn 1: Mishra's workshop into metalworker, pass.
John plays land, passes.
Jeff land passes.
Turn 2: island, tap metalworker revealing 3 artifacts, playing 2 if them: wurmcoil engine and portcullis. Third was darksteel forge, played a few turns later.
Proceed to deal 7 damage a turn ramping out of control and gaining life. it was glorious.
All in all, i would say expensive cards wise, i love them all. But the old school duals arent as important as fetch lands. Mishra's workshop is nice, but not a MUST have(i traded 4x tarmogoyfs for mine because ive given up major legacy tournaments). I got my Mishra's Workshop because I have grown known in my area for being the Mishra player, and it felt too iconic to not strive to have my own piece of Magic: The Gathering history. Also, having 2 incomes, no kids, and being a well paid computer program really enables me to throw money at cardboard. I would recommend these cards as pricier pick ups (20+ singles); in this order of value:
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Appreciate the work, man.
If you are having those issues with turn 3 wins I would suggest also throwing in some 2 mana counterspells for control. Might even want to try Isochron Scepter and remand or Arcane Denial to lock out combos or just use arcane to constantly counter your own artifacts and draw 3 cards the next upkeep if you want the draw engine. It really depends on how bad your group is able to pull off the turn 3 combos. The worse it is keep adding the 2 CMC counters until you find a good balance that can stop/slow the turn 3 wins. Might even want to consider force of will if you have one laying around.
lol nah haven't had a force just laying around for probably 10 years. And I do already have Arcane Denial in my deck as suggested. Isochron's and/or Remand though aren't bad ideas and as an added bonus Remand is crazy cheap atm. Not sure how the local meta may have evolved, honestly haven't even really watched an EDH game as of late to know if people may have gone more lax so the games take longer. I've heard of players either having a more low powered EDH next to a competitive one or simply having a sideboard of competitive power cards that they can switch out if they are playing more casually. Here's to hoping.
Modern: B 8RACK B
EDH: BRU Mishra, Artificer Prodigy BRU, W Kemba, Kha Regent W, B Ghoulcaller Gisa B, BU Oona, Queen of the Fae BU, G Seton, Krosan Protector G, BW Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim BW, R Purphoros, God of the Forge R, UGW Arcades, the Strategist UGW, GW Karametra, God of Harvests GW, GU Edric, Spymaster of Trest GU, UW Grand Arbiter Augustin IV UW, BRW Kaalia of the Vast BRW, BRU Nekusar, the Mindrazer BRU, BGWU Thrasios, Triton Hero/Tymna the Weaver BGWU
That Basalt Isengard looks so clean! man, every time i look at your alters i get jealous. I am slowly trying my hand at some art myself, and am trying to alter my own mishra cards! This is my latest practice sketch.
I plan on doing a Mega Man theme, feature Doctor Wiley as Mishra and his robot masters as my cards (altering anything that is under 5 bucks NM value) Its slow goings though, apparently art is hard...and im not a great painter, so im learning techniques as i go.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
in your experience is he fun to play with and against?
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Firstly, only reviewing cards that i would consider running.
Artifacts
Aligned Hedron Network - Seems like a cool way to limit creature heavy builds against us, and with goblin welder, we can juggle it around to keep them locked out. Not ideal, but could work in a pinch.
Hedron Archive - A midway point if Mind stone isnt enough and Dreamstone Hedron is too much. Between Commander's Sphere and Mind stone, i dont have much room for this ever...
All the eldrazi - Honestly, i dont like any of the new eldrazi better than Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. An eldrazi for this deck should be a fall back wincon, which i dont like these for. Void Winnower is cool, but not for this deck in my opinion.
Lands
Lag lands - Dual typing is cool, but i dont like them; I am shifting towards lands that are always untapped. Simply dont run enough basics that these are safe to play.
Blighted Cataract - Enters play untapped, can turn into cards in the late game. This land i like and plan to playtest.
Blighted Fen - potential. probably not good against aggro, but against voltron could be very powerful.
Mortuary Mire - This very may well be a new black staple. Seems insanely good. That said, ETB tapped is a turn off.
Sanctum of Ugin - Could be good in a battle cruiser artifact version of mishra, but i dont think it works ideally for us. Does combo nicely with Possibility storm, so it has a lot of potential.
Shrine of the Forsaken Gods - No. A worse temple of the false god imo.
Colored Stuff:
Ruination Guide - Potential for an aggro build; combined with other artifact lord-like effects could be useful.
Tide Drifter - Not as good as Ruination guide, but could fit in an artifact army deck.
Brutal Expulsion - nice tech against uncounterable effects; but probably wont stop many infinite combo decks from dropping the same bomb twice.
Sire of Stagnation - Poor mans consecrated sphinx. if you've got room, he seems like a solid fit.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Daretti, Scrap Savant and Mariachi Jace are both pretty solid cards for this deck. Currently, I lack my own copy of Karn Liberated, but i would very much like to have one. I am going to explain my thinking real quick, and hopefully that guides your decision.
Daretti, Scrap Savant - shouldnt even be in contention here. hes super awesome for this deck, and should be automatically included from this list of planeswalker options. He filters, letting us dig quickly for combo pieces if we need to. He can goblin welder for us, which is one of the strongest cards in the entire deck, and if he somehow makes it to his ultimate, he can make it so our artifacts are almost impossible to remove.
Jace, Architect of Thought - decent + against aggro, -2 isn't my favorite, -8 is great for mishra synergy fun. Not an ideal PW imo, since you'll rarely get his ultimate ability, and his others arent game changers. If you can protect him to drop his ultimate, hes worth it. If you cant, hes going to be underwhelming and eat up a turns worth of mana to play.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy//Jace, Telepath Unbound - Love card filters, but doesnt do us much beyond letting us dig for cards we need and pitch those we dont. His planeswalker mode isnt ideal: less defense on his +, and we dont run many instants and sorceries. His ultimate ability really isnt useful since we arent a mill strategy. Honestly, hes a merfolk looter to me. I'd trade him.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Amazing card. I run him in several edh decks. His + is a great control effect in a 1v1 situation. his 0 is the best spell in legacy. His -1 protects himself. His -12 wins games. That said, he wont live. If you drop him, expect to get one of the following, a 4 mana brainstorm, boomerang, or scry your opponent. Honestly, hes a big money card that can excel, but we simply dont have the dudes on the board to protect him from 3 opponents AND get mileage out of him.
Karn Liberated - honestly, the only strike against this guy is his mana cost. 6 loyalty is strong enough we can protect him. a +4 puts him at 10, making him very hard to kill, though its not super useful beyond slowing our opponents. -3 is where Karn shines. Grixis is not good at dealing with indestructible and enchantments. Sure, we have some outs like Spine of Ish Sah and tuck effects, but Karn is a huge help, especially since he exiles and isn't limited by any type, so he can help us with any problem. Finally, his ultimate (which again, you should never get to) can REALLY give you an edge in a game, if you feel like playing for 4 hours.
My opinion: Daretti + Karn. Save up and get a Tezzeret (both are good, i prefer seeker)
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage