Quote from Ulka »Okay So its been a bit since I've commented here so I figure I should mention that cause I'm going to be reaching deep into pages for comments:
Hellkite Charger: Unless you are playing Sword of feast and famine (which I have at multiple points) It is weak and just too mana intensive to be any use for us as it invloves a nonartifact creature which means it vulnerable to possibility storm.
Hellkite Igniter I want this card to work so much. I have tried it over 3 times over a period of 4 years now and it just is too slow. Sure its GG if it lands a hit but if you're dead at that point its not like that dragon can fix that. Its just too slow even in my deck where I think I ramp even more that your guys' lists.
Hellkite tyrant: too risk. I tried it and got a win out of it at one point but with multiple decks that use blue it turns to I lose all my artifacts to clones. However it was fun to steal a Phyrexian metamorph version from someone and all my artifacts back.
Steel Hellkite: The only Dragon I love anymore. Steel acts as my main form of enchantment/PW removal. I find he is easy to tutor up when needed and still hits like a truck.
Quote from Ulka »Otherstuff:
Null Profusion: this card is a lot of fun if you can get an infinite mana combo set up but I prefer Sensei's divining top + rings of brighthearth to draw cards because at that point I win.
Metalworker: I actually dislike mr. Roboto in here. In my version atleadt I am colored mana starved and almost always have colorless around to use and abuse. Your list has more colorless to use which makes more sense to why it is in your list.
blood funnel: i personally hate this card. I loath it actually. I have a foil copy and tried it multiple times but It just always doesn't seem to work for me. I often need to cast something that isn't an artifact or creature and it often ruins my game plan instead of advancing them but then again I play a drop my deck on the field version of Mishra.
Quote from Ulka »FETCHS
Okay enter my very weird viewpoints here. So with mishra each time we cast an artifact we get a shuffle trigger which is the main point of Fetches in my mind. Sure deck thinning can be useful but when we establish a P-storm synergy out deck thinning doesn't matter. I have found that when I replaced my fetches with basics, the deck ran better. Back to basics and ruination didn't hit as hard, My deck seemed to run a bit smoother in general. I personally find that the life loss is actually quite detrimental as I am normally a huge target when I play mishra but Then again my list and group vs others. Thus why I think Fetches aren't needed.
I apologize for any bad grammar in there as I am typing quickly while I wait to pick up my Father and brother from the airport.
Quote from Ulka »Okay fair enough Point with blood funnel and metalworker.
Now I have a few questions about your list:
how has Crosis's Charm been working for you?
and No Cranial Plating?
Im curious why no cranial plating as it allows us to use commander damage as an alternative wincon.
Quote from kealsera »I'd personally wouldn't run those, since they need a lot of effort put into it to work. You'll want to have atleast 6 Artifacts for the first one two work AND a card to avoid chumpblock.
Cards like Hatred would be my first choice, since you won't remove multiple opponents with this strategy and it'S much more explosive.
Quote from kealsera »I do see your point, and I truly forgot the possibility to instantly change the equipment target.
But if this Artifact is a threat to anyone, it is just a miserable play to not block all of your creatures - espescially Mishra. This seems kinda...very bad play in your meta. In other words - Equipment - even at instantspeed - is not a surprise for me.
Furthermore this artifact is dead in the first 6 turns, a kinda miserable topdeck since you need a boardstate and extremly bad after a boardwipe which hits our artifacts as well.
Hatred would eliminate those negative impacts with the loss of repitive damage. But it is truely a surprise for your opponents cause they don't see this comming.
Btw: I had a quick look at your deck.
You'd need 46 Artifacts to have 6 of them at turn 6 in your hand without carddraw (6 of 13)
You do play a total of 38 Artifacts. I actually can't imagine that there is a "often" chance to have more than around 8 Artifacts on board at turn 6, even with a lot of carddraw. And I am not yet counting in their manacurve since a lot of your artifacts are T3 or higher.Or even your opponents, since once you drop your first two ramps or goblin welder they should hit you with a wrath or spotremoval.
My thought was to use a kind of underwhelming tutor (as Long-Term is) which doesn't necessarily contradicts to your no tutor rules but still give you the "Counter" you want.
In Response to Bane of Progress:
Long-Term Plans for Darksteel Forge, Thirst of Knowledge to discard the Forge, Weld Sol ring into Forge.
I know, that's 3 1/2 Cards total - but atleast it's not a counterspell and a lightweight tutor.
Or as I already stated when I posted my list: Use Knowledge Pool. I had a game where I was able to put a copy into play of it, so I was able to choose from both pools and my opponents had to use the cards from the Pool I choosed for them (mine having Pos. Storm and Blightsteel in it as well as Mirrorworks with a metamorph on hand. Yeah that game was a win :D)
That's some sort of a soft counter as well - if someone plays the hate against you, you just choose a pool without hate. Only works once per copied pool though
Go with Entomb
If you run Cunning Wish you can choose a counterspell in response to an artifact massremoval with the words: "Guys, I do not want to tune this deck even further with controlmagic and tutors..."
Quote from kealsera »As a side note, I switched Rhystic Study to Mystic Remora. If this hits the table on the early turns it is just nuts.
Quote from TheOnlyOne652089 »Quote from kealsera »As a side note, I switched Rhystic Study to Mystic Remora. If this hits the table on the early turns it is just nuts.
Just play both, these cards are super strong in multiplayer matches.
Quote from LordRewind »Looking for a card to cut to re-incorporate ice cave. Open to suggestions assuming someone provides reasoning why a card doesnt forward my goals
Quote from crimhead »Etched Championn (without Cranial Plating) is ...a chump blocker for non-trampling non-flyers? Beyond that, it looks like you devote a lot of slots mostly to generate card advantage - I think you could spare a little. Consider that Ice Cave also generates card advantage by countering more of your opponents' spells than your own - at the same time straining your opponents' available mana as they use it against each other!
Quote from LordRewind »If my meta keeps up with the global artifact wipes, i might have to start loading up on counter magic / reintroduce ice caves. Either that or i may have to play some other decks for a short period to dissuade them from loading up on mishra hate.
Quote from LordRewind »Good point on the card draw. I am still tinkering; but i appreciate the suggestions all!!
Quote from kealsera »In my experience Mirrworks breaks this deck. If its not immediatly answered you will normally win.
Horn Sorcerer didn't worked for me that great (though I have alot more Top Manipulation than Lord). I might cut him.
Quote from Aggrovation »I have been looking for an unusual type of deck and this seems like one that I could have fun with. I've been trying to put together a list and I think I'm getting close.
I do have a question about how something like Nullstone Gargoyle works when Possibility Storm is on the table. I can see the value of the card, but I do want to make sure I understand it properly. It looks to me like it has essentially no effect when p-storm is active. A player plays any noncreature spell, e.g. Plague Wind (from their hand). That player can stack the triggers so that the trigger from Nullstone Gargoyle goes on the stack first, then the trigger from Possibility Storm goes on the stack. Possibility Storm resolves, finding another sorcery (in this case), which is then cast as the second spell of the turn, so it is not countered (at least not by Nullstone Gargoyle's effect). That second sorcery spell resolves and finally the Nullstone Gargoyle trigger is allowed to resolve and it fizzles.
Is this correct? Obviously Nullstone Gargoyle is a great card for making your artifacts uncounterable when you are trying to play an artifact with Mishra on the table, but am I correct that it has no practical effect when P Storm is also active?
Quote from MTG Comprehensive Rules »603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
Quote from Gatherer Rules Notes »4/15/2013 If Possibility Storm's ability doesn't exile the original spell (perhaps because another Possibility Storm already exiled it), you'll still exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a card that shares a card type with it and have the opportunity to cast that spell.
Quote from Aggrovation »Thanks, LordRewind!
Quote from kealsera »The important thing is, which just doesn't get mentioned enough:
In either way - your first noncreature spell will be put in GY or Lib, Storm will put another card in play and Mishra's ability will get you the Card in GY or Lib, cause you played an Artifact, right?
That nets you 2 cards, whereas your opponent will have only 1. (Or zero, if he played a creature in Storm and resolves a noncreature Spell out of it - Rarething though, tribal stuff.)
Quote from crimhead »Any reason not to mention Muzzio, Visionary Architect? I think it's playable in this sort of deck.