Recurring Insight and a handful of the lands you're currently running seem rather underwhelming...
Agreed. I am currently working on getting 1 of each of the grixis shock lands to replace my vivids. I just freed up a copy of ancient tomb which will replace temple of the false god, and i am trying to find good replacements for panorama and lonely sandbar. I run recurring insight because it draws as many cards as C.Sphinx and it doesnt generate nearly as much hate in my local groups (also, prevents reanimation wars where my opponents can benefit from sphinx).
The artifact lands nombo with another card in the deck (Possibility Storm).
You have mentioned this before, and frankly, i disagree. The loss of 1 possibility storm trigger is nothing compared to all the benefits they bring us. They combo strongly with other effects in the deck, and for the time being will remain. I wrote a big wall of text somewhere earlier in the thread on this, i wanna say page 2 or 3.
In addition to Ice Cave, you could consider In the Eye of Chaos, though it would contrast with Nether Void (thankfully, you generally don't need both of them out at the same time, anyways). A cheaper suggestion that could also be good is Cephalid Shrine, given the uniformity of a lot of EDH metas. You could also try Counterbalance and/or Invoke Prejudice.
whoooo boy do i like In the Eye of Chaos..that thing is sweet! I currently do not own a copy, but I will pick that up in the future. Counterbalance is always fun in a deck that includes divining top, i will have to experiment with it; i have a few from playing countertop in legacy laying around.Invoke Prejudice is a beautiful card, but i cannot justify THAT much money on an enchant that requires 4 colored mana of 1 color that i will likely cut due to having a hard time playing it.
The artifact lands nombo with another card in the deck (Possibility Storm).
You have mentioned this before, and frankly, i disagree. The loss of 1 possibility storm trigger is nothing compared to all the benefits they bring us. They combo strongly with other effects in the deck, and for the time being will remain. I wrote a big wall of text somewhere earlier in the thread on this, i wanna say page 2 or 3.
In fact I have... Imagine that... The issue being that it will end up being more than 1 trigger; it's at least 1 trigger per land, assuming that you literally never shuffle your deck.
In fact I have... Imagine that... The issue being that it will end up being more than 1 trigger; it's at least 1 trigger per land, assuming that you literally never shuffle your deck.
It is not at least one trigger per land! What if you draw one in your oppener? What did you just never hit one?
There is less than a 10% chance off blanking on Possibility Storm with Lord Rewind's list. To lose more than one trigger, you'd need to cast (on average) more than 10 artifact spells with Possibility Storm and Mishra in play! I hope we'd win by then, or at least have a very favourable board state.
Also, losing a trigger is not the end of the world! You still get the artifact you cast via Mishra, so its not like you're being totally screwed or even have it as bad a your opponents (who have lost all control off their spells).
Every card choice has pros and cons. IMO, artifact lands have a lot of pros and minimal cons. If you don't want to run them because of the cons, that's reasonable. But it doesn't make them a bad choice or not viable.
Hey y'all. I'm in the process of making a Mishra deck to put together as soon as I have a little cash, and I'd appreciate some pointers. This is what I have so far:
My main concerns with what I have are that it might be too reliant on easily disrupted combos, so I'd like to fit in a few more counters/boardwipes. I'd also like to find room for Mycosynth Lattice/Darksteel Forge, but I'm not sure what to replace with them or if they're even worth it (I don't have a ton of ways to cheat the Forge out, and without the Forge the Lattice is only really good for the Vandalblast MLD combo). Ignore the color-fixing portion of my land base for now, as I didn't feel like looking through what I already have for duals. I'll probably update it over time once the rest of the deck is complete, as I haven't yet invested in a full landbase since the only deck I have that would really need is it a cheap Marchesa deck that's probably getting taken apart to build Mishra anyway.
Hello everyone! This decklist is supposed to be a budget build: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-06-15-mishra-edh/
Right now it clocks in at ~$340 and I'd like to get it under $200. I would also appreciate any gameplay comments but I'm prioritizing budget. Thanks!
There is less than a 10% chance off blanking on Possibility Storm with Lord Rewind's list. To lose more than one trigger, you'd need to cast (on average) more than 10 artifact spells with Possibility Storm and Mishra in play! I hope we'd win by then, or at least have a very favourable board state.
Also, losing a trigger is not the end of the world! You still get the artifact you cast via Mishra, so its not like you're being totally screwed or even have it as bad a your opponents (who have lost all control off their spells).
Every card choice has pros and cons. IMO, artifact lands have a lot of pros and minimal cons. If you don't want to run them because of the cons, that's reasonable. But it doesn't make them a bad choice or not viable.
More than 10 artifact spells... It's not unreasonable at all for a well-built artifact deck to be casting three artifacts a turn in mid-game, several turns before winning.
"You still get the artifact you cast via Mishra" implies that Mishra is always out while Possibility Storm is out.
At a quick glance, the artifact lands interact positively with about 15 cards. This is mostly minorly so, such as helping counts, or in an iffy manner, such as with Hurkyl's Recall. The cards of particular note include Mirrorworks, Tezzeret the Seeker, and Trading Post. They interact very negatively with one pivotal card. They also lose out to a ton of opponents' effects. With that sort of selection of pros and cons...
Hello everyone! This decklist is supposed to be a budget build: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-06-15-mishra-edh/
Right now it clocks in at ~$340 and I'd like to get it under $200. I would also appreciate any gameplay comments but I'm prioritizing budget. Thanks!
The thing with a budget build is that you end up having to get rid of some of the more expensive staples. I think for budget, though, you might want to go with more of the thievery build, ala Silenciaco's list. Which albeit has a lot more money cards, but you can gain something from the cheap, thievery-based cards. Not to direct people away from LordRewind's list, which also has plenty of good budget ideas, but a thievery build may be a slightly better option for budget.
I haven't built this deck yet, so I'm speaking form theory. I do have a lot of MTG experience, and think my contributions are of value. Take them as you will.
More than 10 artifact spells... It's not unreasonable at all for a well-built artifact deck to be casting three artifacts a turn in mid-game, several turns before winning.
Of course (provided you have that kind of card advantage online). But Possibility Storm won't always be out through that entire phase. If I have a P.Storm in play and such an engine to cast three artifacts a turn, I'm doing pretty well I think.
"You still get the artifact you cast via Mishra" implies that Mishra is always out while Possibility Storm is out.
P. Storm is not very good without Mishra. I wouldn't cast the Storm with getting Mishra out first, and by then he should be hard to remove (especially if I can shroud him).
At a quick glance, the artifact lands interact positively with about 15 cards. This is mostly minorly so, such as helping counts, or in an iffy manner, such as with Hurkyl's Recall. The cards of particular note include Mirrorworks, Tezzeret the Seeker, and Trading Post. They interact very negatively with one pivotal card. They also lose out to a ton of opponents' effects. With that sort of selection of pros and cons...
I would say the nonbo with P.Storm is minor. Card disadvantage one time in ten, or more likely (with Mishra) a lack of card advantage one time in ten. To me this is just a hiccup for the deck, not a disaster. The cards I think that interact nicley (besides the cards you mentioned) with artifact lands are:
But even the minor "counts" are of value. Cranial plating, Broodstar, Mox Opal, Tezzeret, Agent Of Bolas, etc all all improved by running four artifact lands. I realise Lordrewind's list doesn't run all these cards, but I think the discussion is relevant in a wider context to anybody's build or build in progress.
It's good that you've pointed but the drawback - people need to make an informed decision. But I just don't see that you've made a good case that that one little drawback outweighs all the benefits, big and small. Also, this is EDH, and a stated 75% build. Even if it were clear that these lands are a small net disadvantage (which it isn't at all clear), These are fun lands in a fun format.
Question - have you tested these lands? Do you find you're getting screwed by them more severely than they are benefiting you? Is your list posted in this thread, that we might examine it and discuss what different inclusions might make these lands better than they are for you? Otherwise, I think we've said all we need to on artifact lands, and can leave it to individual judgement and play style.
Otherwise, I think we've said all we need to on artifact lands, and can leave it to individual judgement and play style.
This is where i am at with it. I find these lands beneficial, and have yet to blank on them in a clutch situation. Really, if my board state has both possibility storm and mishra out, ive practically won already.
So looking at your list, here are my thoughts on how to trim down the cost a bit:
Blightsteel Colossus - frankly, ive won 1x with with card to my memory. Otherwise, its normally just a huge hate target for my opponents. I think this deck needs win conditions, but if you can win without it, thats 20 bucks down. I would focus on non creature methods of closing the game, such as forge + disk (both of which are fairly cheap) - Really, any big artifact beater can take this role, i think there was a new collosus printed that should be on the cheap (-20) Consecrated Sphinx - a flying blocker with a great ability who is a 10 turn clock. slow to win with, but my oh my dat card advantage. a budget alternative, that i actually prefer (i hate the sphinx wars that go on when its in play of theft and reanimation) is recurring insight. Insight tends to draw as many cards, and doesnt draw as much attention to what you are up to, where as sphinx is a huge bullseye. (-14) Dubplicant - awesome removal in artifact, but not 100% necessary. at 20 bucks, there are tons of removal / versatile cards that you can make use of instead. (-20) Hellkite Tyrant - Personally, i dont trust this card. Clone effects cause us to auto lose the game, not worth the risk imo, but if you cut him, thats (-4) Karn, Silver golem - amazingly brutal combo with lattice. can enable alpha strikes to boot. that said, not critical to the deck, and if you are cutting for cheaper cards,march of the machines is under a buck (-5) Memnarch - awesome, but hate generating. never went well for me during games, tends to scare players, even if you dont have the mana or lattice out to go off to the races. (-8) Wurmcoil engine - i love this card in my build...but if you are trying to save $, its a high dollar card that you could replace with something else like pentavus or myr battlesphere for generating tokens. (-15) Sensei's Divining Top - i think top is superior, but Crystal Ball is a great budget alternative (-31)
cards i think are worth the 5 or more all is dust - a great get outta jail free card that hits so many card types that grixis struggles with master transmuter - game ender, simply put arcum dagsson - there is a reason many consider him an S tier general chromatic lantern - we run lots of artifacts, but not worrying about color is so nice darksteel forge - bomb mycosynth lattice - super versatile with so many of our cards, just amazing. Nevinyrral's disk - game ender in so many ways
I haven't built this deck yet, so I'm speaking form theory. I do have a lot of MTG experience, and think my contributions are of value. Take them as you will.
I built a different version of Mishra and then disassembled it, never putting it online. I've also been playing for a while... (not that that is particularly relevant). But I've also theory-crafted a variety of versions of this deck quite a few times.
P. Storm is not very good without Mishra. I wouldn't cast the Storm with getting Mishra out first, and by then he should be hard to remove (especially if I can shroud him).
I respectfully disagree. While Possibility Storm can feel like a chaos card, it's quite powerful as an anti-control/anti-combo card, and a set-up engine in its own right. Keep in mind that it also doesn't effect commanders, so casting it before Mishra makes Mishra more likely to resolve.
I would say the nonbo with P.Storm is minor. Card disadvantage one time in ten, or more likely (with Mishra) a lack of card advantage one time in ten. To me this is just a hiccup for the deck, not a disaster.
And for the most part I agree. I feel that artifact hate is a more significant concern. And in that vein I do like Darksteel Citadel more than the colored artifact lands in many artifact decks. In Mishra specifically, in my experience, getting Possibility Storm out is pivotal to the game plan a significant percentage of the time, and the risk is kinda painful, especially with efficient shuffling going on at the same time, which often happens, especially in more tuned EDH decks (even tuned 75% decks). I definitely don't think that the P-Storm should be a precluding reason for cutting the lands, but I would extend your other point in that looking at one's meta is useful before running them, for hate and efficiency analysis. For the list I was running, the metas I was in at the time fed off the removal downside of the lands quite a bit and the P-Storm stifling was kinda the cyanide icing on the proverbial arsenic cake.
But even the minor "counts" are of value. Cranial plating, Broodstar, Mox Opal, Tezzeret, Agent Of Bolas, etc all all improved by running four artifact lands. I realise Lordrewind's list doesn't run all these cards, but I think the discussion is relevant in a wider context to anybody's build or build in progress.
Master Transmuter is a little awkward some of the time. Voltaic Key is pretty meh. I do feel that LordRewind probably should be running Trinket Mage, especially if (s)he's going to run the artifact lands. I agree that having incidental artifacts is always nice, and that is the main selling point of the lands.
Game 1 went rough. Held a 2 land hand because if i hit 4 i was off to the races. Omnath got out of control and being one of the big fish at the table that evening, gent playing Alesha came at me hard, despite omnath dropping boundless realms on turn 4. A doubling cube and a whispersilk cloak later and thats all she wrote.
Game 2 went a little better. Ended up securing a turn 3 Thada adel, and promptly took a gander at Omnath's deck, who wasnt willing to trade his freshly played general for protecting his cards. I took away whispersilk cloak, since he had no sol ring or useful artifacts really...
Holy god, a spoiler of a card worthy of going into mishra? Synergizes well with any sacrifice / bounce / remove artifact ability, curiousity across the board (pity its one or more, but still, whatever gets through nets a card), and generates chump blockers with flying?
Be still my beating heart.
(not a huge fan that its an enchantment and that its cost is UU, but hey, its definitely getting tested)
I'd personally prefer a card which does something Turn 4.
Sure, once the engine is going, this will be value. But it'll be dead otherwise - And I don't like that.
That was my initial response, but why are you looking at this with only turn 4 in mind. In a highly competitive meta, yes, this is a much too slow ability - considering most combos go off around 5 to 7. But in multiplayer at a 75% / casual table? This effect works well. Late game it provides us fuel for many abilities without forfeiting quality creatures, and gives us a lot of chump blockers for key voltrons like Prossh or Sigarda or ...well, any flying voltron that may cause problems really.
Also, as someone who sees a LOT of stax in his meta, i like the idea of getting things to start my upkeeps.
Final disclaimer - i dont think its going to be a revolutionary card that makes the deck so much stronger; but rather, it will be a fun tool to experiment with. Part of what draws me to mishra is that he ISNT the deck to beat at the table, no matter how refined he ever becomes, he will never be as strong as say an optimized derevi or 100% prossh, etc.
I decided to look at thieving thanks to osieorb18 and got a couple cards from Silenciaco's list.
Changelog:
-Blightsteel Colossus
-Desecrated Sphinx
-Duplicant
-Sensei's Diving Top
-Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-Hellkite Tyrant
-Karn
-Memnarch
+ 2 Swamp (don't really need Urborg level swamp gen but still like swamps)
+Cranial Plating (forgot to add this as a wincon first time around)
+Knowledge Pool
+Shared Fate
+Guile
+Crystal Ball
+Crosis's Charm (utility and cheap)
I love me some Wurmcoil so I gotta keep him. I found an "All is Dust" on ebay really cheap so I grabbed it. The tappedout list (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-06-15-mishra-edh/) says the total is $238.54 but I'm pretty sure if you shopped on other sites, you could get it >$200. However, I have yet to test this deck so I'm not 100% I will keep this list in its entirety.
nice to see you trimmed some fat man. Seems like a nice start to your list - just remember that one of the beauties of edh is that decks dont rotate; so you can incrementally improve a deck once youve found you enjoy it; so start with something you can afford and build towards a 'final' build.
But I gladly appreciate your testresults - and always keep your Blightsteel Experience in mind
Hahaha, right? yeh, as i said in that disclaimer, i dont think this card will stick or break the bank. I will play with it, see how it goes, and probably toss it in a binder for another day. But if there is anything i promise, its that any card that could be run in the deck, i will try it. Except the abyss...i lack the funds for that gem :(....someday....
I don't like Abyss for Mishra - we run to many nonartifact creatures to abuse they symetry IMO. I hope I'm right, because I recently sold most of my Legacy cards including The Abyss! I did keep Nethervoid.
Possibility Storm eh? Cool combo, I never would have thought this about this general. I like what your deck looks like, what would you say are harder match ups for this deck?
This Hangarback Walker though..Dunno, It's aweird card to abuse, but imho so much more powerful than Pentavus 'cause it's kinda build in Wrath Protection and a lot less mana effort to get the Tokens.
I'll need to reevalute my deck, and see if it has a lot of synergy.
Actually - This guy would be nuts in Prossh deck as well.
I dont really like Hangerback. My main dislike is reanimation effects return a 0/0; as does Feldon. I much prefer cards like Myr Battlesphere or Pentavus. I might grab a copy since i feel it will be on the cheap, and it might synergize well in a modular build; but in this deck; i dont much care for it.
Possibility Storm eh? Cool combo, I never would have thought this about this general. I like what your deck looks like, what would you say are harder match ups for this deck?
The hardest match ups are most definitely fast and aggressive decks - most notably flying voltrons like Voltron Prossh, Bruna, Sigarda, etc. I dont run many flying blockers, so normally these sorts of decks steam roll me. That said, i tend to play multiplayer, so voltron decks tend draw hate early, and since Mishra isnt a key threat to them at the time, they tend not to focus this deck down. If you wanted to take this deck 1v1, i would recommend looking in the main post at the alternative build - Mishra Storm Combo. If you want to alter this deck to be more competitive purely based on my build, i would drop a lot of weaker effects for counterspells and removal, being blue and black you have lots of those at your access. I would drop a lot of recursion for tutoring effects. I would also throw on a bit more stax to pin down the early game.
He does a better job generating fodder for Goblin Welder / Arcum though. Well, I'll look into my deck in the evening and look what shenanigans I am able to do with him.
Actually he can be used as a weak finisher as well.
True true. Really, i just hate the XX cost and the to grow him; oh how i wish it was just mana investment rather than tapping. even at 2 for a growing 1/1 (which, unless he comes as a late game top deck, is all i really see him as) he is still a bit subject in my opinion. I definitely like that he generates fodder, and that he can be different things based on the stage of the game that you play him; i just hate how slow he grows, and i really dont want to invest mana slowly over 5 turns into him to grow him.
edit - i said i dunno way too much in this post. clearly its too early to be posting.
Got completely blind sided by a gent in my play group rocking a brand new Krenko, mob boss over the holiday weekend. Going to keep an eye on my meta, but looking at going a much harsher stax variant for revenge...
its in primarily as a change up pitch and to experiment with. im still trying to avoid being a counter magic build. Last weekends games featured a new combo deck that went rampant, which has me wary though. If things tilt more to combo, i will start loading up the counter magic.
My meta is still aggro dominated. Depending on how the deck performs, i also grabbed a copy of pendrell mists
Had fantastic success last weekend (RVA Comic Con) with Mishra. Planar Chaos came out HUGE; stuck it on the table and there it remained for the entire game (sadly, only played Mishra once). Shut down my opponents answers with auto counter spells off crazy lucky coin flips and mishra did work.
I know I shouldnt give a card like that all star status due to lucky coin flips, but my god, what an oppressive showing. Not dropping that from the build...ever
Agreed. I am currently working on getting 1 of each of the grixis shock lands to replace my vivids. I just freed up a copy of ancient tomb which will replace temple of the false god, and i am trying to find good replacements for panorama and lonely sandbar. I run recurring insight because it draws as many cards as C.Sphinx and it doesnt generate nearly as much hate in my local groups (also, prevents reanimation wars where my opponents can benefit from sphinx).
You have mentioned this before, and frankly, i disagree. The loss of 1 possibility storm trigger is nothing compared to all the benefits they bring us. They combo strongly with other effects in the deck, and for the time being will remain. I wrote a big wall of text somewhere earlier in the thread on this, i wanna say page 2 or 3.
whoooo boy do i like In the Eye of Chaos..that thing is sweet! I currently do not own a copy, but I will pick that up in the future. Counterbalance is always fun in a deck that includes divining top, i will have to experiment with it; i have a few from playing countertop in legacy laying around.Invoke Prejudice is a beautiful card, but i cannot justify THAT much money on an enchant that requires 4 colored mana of 1 color that i will likely cut due to having a hard time playing it.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
In fact I have... Imagine that... The issue being that it will end up being more than 1 trigger; it's at least 1 trigger per land, assuming that you literally never shuffle your deck.
There is less than a 10% chance off blanking on Possibility Storm with Lord Rewind's list. To lose more than one trigger, you'd need to cast (on average) more than 10 artifact spells with Possibility Storm and Mishra in play! I hope we'd win by then, or at least have a very favourable board state.
Also, losing a trigger is not the end of the world! You still get the artifact you cast via Mishra, so its not like you're being totally screwed or even have it as bad a your opponents (who have lost all control off their spells).
Every card choice has pros and cons. IMO, artifact lands have a lot of pros and minimal cons. If you don't want to run them because of the cons, that's reasonable. But it doesn't make them a bad choice or not viable.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
1x Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Artifact (21)
1x Aether Spellbomb
1x Coalition Relic
1x Dimir Signet
1x Executioner's Capsule
1x Expedition Map
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Izzet Signet
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Neurok Stealthsuit
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Possessed Portal
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Salvaging Station
1x Sculpting Steel
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Smokestack
1x Sol Ring
1x Staff of Domination
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Trading Post
1x Arcane Denial
1x Chaos Warp
1x Counterflux
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Last Word
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Perplex
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Duplicant
1x Etherium Sculptor
1x Goblin Welder
1x Grand Architect
1x Lodestone Golem
1x Magus of the Future
1x Metalworker
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Nullstone Gargoyle
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Pili-Pala
1x Scarecrone
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Treasure Mage
1x Trinket Mage
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Enchantment (9)
1x Blood Funnel
1x Future Sight
1x Ice Cave
1x Mystic Remora
1x Nether Void
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Planar Chaos
1x Possibility Storm
1x Rhystic Study
1x Academy Ruins
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Command Tower
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Grixis Panorama
10x Island
1x Kher Keep
5x Mountain
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Springjack Pasture
6x Swamp
1x Temple of the False God
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Tolaria West
Sorcery (7)
1x Chandra's Ignition
1x Decree of Pain
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Fabricate
1x Gamble
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Vandalblast
My main concerns with what I have are that it might be too reliant on easily disrupted combos, so I'd like to fit in a few more counters/boardwipes. I'd also like to find room for Mycosynth Lattice/Darksteel Forge, but I'm not sure what to replace with them or if they're even worth it (I don't have a ton of ways to cheat the Forge out, and without the Forge the Lattice is only really good for the Vandalblast MLD combo). Ignore the color-fixing portion of my land base for now, as I didn't feel like looking through what I already have for duals. I'll probably update it over time once the rest of the deck is complete, as I haven't yet invested in a full landbase since the only deck I have that would really need is it a cheap Marchesa deck that's probably getting taken apart to build Mishra anyway.
Right now it clocks in at ~$340 and I'd like to get it under $200. I would also appreciate any gameplay comments but I'm prioritizing budget. Thanks!
1x Arcbound Reclaimer
1x Arcum Dagsson
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Burnished Hart
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Copper Gnomes
1x Disciple of the Vault
1x Duplicant
1x Etched Champion
1x Etherium-Horn Sorcerer
1x Etherium Sculptor
1x Feldon of the Third Path
1x Goblin Artisans
1x Goblin Welder
1x Grand Architect
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Junk Diver
1x Karn, Silver Golem
1x Master Transmuter
1x Memnarch
1x Nullstone Gargoyle
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Soul of New Phyrexia
1x Sphinx Summoner
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1x Vedalken Archmage
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Academy Ruins
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Command Tower
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Great Furnace
1x Grixis Panorama
8x Island
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Mishra's Factory
6x Mountain
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Seat of the Synod
4x Swamp
1x Temple of the False God
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Vivid Crag
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Marsh
Sorcery (5)
1x All Is Dust
1x Fabricate
1x Praetor's Grasp
1x Psychic Intrusion
1x Vandalblast
1x Blood Funnel
1x Ice Cave
1x Possibility Storm
Artifact (18)
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Dimir Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mirrorworks
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skeleton Shard
1x Sol Ring
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Staff of Nin
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Unwinding Clock
1x Voltaic Key
Instant (3)
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Thirst for Knowledge
Planeswalker (2)
1x Daretti, Scrap Savant
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
More than 10 artifact spells... It's not unreasonable at all for a well-built artifact deck to be casting three artifacts a turn in mid-game, several turns before winning.
"You still get the artifact you cast via Mishra" implies that Mishra is always out while Possibility Storm is out.
At a quick glance, the artifact lands interact positively with about 15 cards. This is mostly minorly so, such as helping counts, or in an iffy manner, such as with Hurkyl's Recall. The cards of particular note include Mirrorworks, Tezzeret the Seeker, and Trading Post. They interact very negatively with one pivotal card. They also lose out to a ton of opponents' effects. With that sort of selection of pros and cons...
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Arcum Dagsson
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Master Transmuter
1 Memnarch
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
The thing with a budget build is that you end up having to get rid of some of the more expensive staples. I think for budget, though, you might want to go with more of the thievery build, ala Silenciaco's list. Which albeit has a lot more money cards, but you can gain something from the cheap, thievery-based cards. Not to direct people away from LordRewind's list, which also has plenty of good budget ideas, but a thievery build may be a slightly better option for budget.
Of course (provided you have that kind of card advantage online). But Possibility Storm won't always be out through that entire phase. If I have a P.Storm in play and such an engine to cast three artifacts a turn, I'm doing pretty well I think.
P. Storm is not very good without Mishra. I wouldn't cast the Storm with getting Mishra out first, and by then he should be hard to remove (especially if I can shroud him).
I would say the nonbo with P.Storm is minor. Card disadvantage one time in ten, or more likely (with Mishra) a lack of card advantage one time in ten. To me this is just a hiccup for the deck, not a disaster. The cards I think that interact nicley (besides the cards you mentioned) with artifact lands are:
But even the minor "counts" are of value. Cranial plating, Broodstar, Mox Opal, Tezzeret, Agent Of Bolas, etc all all improved by running four artifact lands. I realise Lordrewind's list doesn't run all these cards, but I think the discussion is relevant in a wider context to anybody's build or build in progress.
It's good that you've pointed but the drawback - people need to make an informed decision. But I just don't see that you've made a good case that that one little drawback outweighs all the benefits, big and small. Also, this is EDH, and a stated 75% build. Even if it were clear that these lands are a small net disadvantage (which it isn't at all clear), These are fun lands in a fun format.
Question - have you tested these lands? Do you find you're getting screwed by them more severely than they are benefiting you? Is your list posted in this thread, that we might examine it and discuss what different inclusions might make these lands better than they are for you? Otherwise, I think we've said all we need to on artifact lands, and can leave it to individual judgement and play style.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
So looking at your list, here are my thoughts on how to trim down the cost a bit:
Blightsteel Colossus - frankly, ive won 1x with with card to my memory. Otherwise, its normally just a huge hate target for my opponents. I think this deck needs win conditions, but if you can win without it, thats 20 bucks down. I would focus on non creature methods of closing the game, such as forge + disk (both of which are fairly cheap) - Really, any big artifact beater can take this role, i think there was a new collosus printed that should be on the cheap (-20)
Consecrated Sphinx - a flying blocker with a great ability who is a 10 turn clock. slow to win with, but my oh my dat card advantage. a budget alternative, that i actually prefer (i hate the sphinx wars that go on when its in play of theft and reanimation) is recurring insight. Insight tends to draw as many cards, and doesnt draw as much attention to what you are up to, where as sphinx is a huge bullseye. (-14)
Dubplicant - awesome removal in artifact, but not 100% necessary. at 20 bucks, there are tons of removal / versatile cards that you can make use of instead. (-20)
Hellkite Tyrant - Personally, i dont trust this card. Clone effects cause us to auto lose the game, not worth the risk imo, but if you cut him, thats (-4)
Karn, Silver golem - amazingly brutal combo with lattice. can enable alpha strikes to boot. that said, not critical to the deck, and if you are cutting for cheaper cards,march of the machines is under a buck (-5)
Memnarch - awesome, but hate generating. never went well for me during games, tends to scare players, even if you dont have the mana or lattice out to go off to the races. (-8)
Wurmcoil engine - i love this card in my build...but if you are trying to save $, its a high dollar card that you could replace with something else like pentavus or myr battlesphere for generating tokens. (-15)
Sensei's Divining Top - i think top is superior, but Crystal Ball is a great budget alternative (-31)
cards i think are worth the 5 or more
all is dust - a great get outta jail free card that hits so many card types that grixis struggles with
master transmuter - game ender, simply put
arcum dagsson - there is a reason many consider him an S tier general
chromatic lantern - we run lots of artifacts, but not worrying about color is so nice
darksteel forge - bomb
mycosynth lattice - super versatile with so many of our cards, just amazing.
Nevinyrral's disk - game ender in so many ways
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
I built a different version of Mishra and then disassembled it, never putting it online. I've also been playing for a while... (not that that is particularly relevant). But I've also theory-crafted a variety of versions of this deck quite a few times.
I respectfully disagree. While Possibility Storm can feel like a chaos card, it's quite powerful as an anti-control/anti-combo card, and a set-up engine in its own right. Keep in mind that it also doesn't effect commanders, so casting it before Mishra makes Mishra more likely to resolve.
And for the most part I agree. I feel that artifact hate is a more significant concern. And in that vein I do like Darksteel Citadel more than the colored artifact lands in many artifact decks. In Mishra specifically, in my experience, getting Possibility Storm out is pivotal to the game plan a significant percentage of the time, and the risk is kinda painful, especially with efficient shuffling going on at the same time, which often happens, especially in more tuned EDH decks (even tuned 75% decks). I definitely don't think that the P-Storm should be a precluding reason for cutting the lands, but I would extend your other point in that looking at one's meta is useful before running them, for hate and efficiency analysis. For the list I was running, the metas I was in at the time fed off the removal downside of the lands quite a bit and the P-Storm stifling was kinda the cyanide icing on the proverbial arsenic cake.
Master Transmuter is a little awkward some of the time. Voltaic Key is pretty meh. I do feel that LordRewind probably should be running Trinket Mage, especially if (s)he's going to run the artifact lands. I agree that having incidental artifacts is always nice, and that is the main selling point of the lands.
Seems legit.
Game 1 went rough. Held a 2 land hand because if i hit 4 i was off to the races. Omnath got out of control and being one of the big fish at the table that evening, gent playing Alesha came at me hard, despite omnath dropping boundless realms on turn 4. A doubling cube and a whispersilk cloak later and thats all she wrote.
Game 2 went a little better. Ended up securing a turn 3 Thada adel, and promptly took a gander at Omnath's deck, who wasnt willing to trade his freshly played general for protecting his cards. I took away whispersilk cloak, since he had no sol ring or useful artifacts really...
ended up winning a close match with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed on the back of 2 blightsteel colossus (sculpting steel).
I found it ironic that i just said that blightsteel wasnt that frequent of a win engine, then i scored a win the next night with it.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Holy god, a spoiler of a card worthy of going into mishra? Synergizes well with any sacrifice / bounce / remove artifact ability, curiousity across the board (pity its one or more, but still, whatever gets through nets a card), and generates chump blockers with flying?
Be still my beating heart.
(not a huge fan that its an enchantment and that its cost is UU, but hey, its definitely getting tested)
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
That was my initial response, but why are you looking at this with only turn 4 in mind. In a highly competitive meta, yes, this is a much too slow ability - considering most combos go off around 5 to 7. But in multiplayer at a 75% / casual table? This effect works well. Late game it provides us fuel for many abilities without forfeiting quality creatures, and gives us a lot of chump blockers for key voltrons like Prossh or Sigarda or ...well, any flying voltron that may cause problems really.
Also, as someone who sees a LOT of stax in his meta, i like the idea of getting things to start my upkeeps.
Final disclaimer - i dont think its going to be a revolutionary card that makes the deck so much stronger; but rather, it will be a fun tool to experiment with. Part of what draws me to mishra is that he ISNT the deck to beat at the table, no matter how refined he ever becomes, he will never be as strong as say an optimized derevi or 100% prossh, etc.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Changelog:
-Blightsteel Colossus
-Desecrated Sphinx
-Duplicant
-Sensei's Diving Top
-Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-Hellkite Tyrant
-Karn
-Memnarch
+ 2 Swamp (don't really need Urborg level swamp gen but still like swamps)
+Cranial Plating (forgot to add this as a wincon first time around)
+Knowledge Pool
+Shared Fate
+Guile
+Crystal Ball
+Crosis's Charm (utility and cheap)
I love me some Wurmcoil so I gotta keep him. I found an "All is Dust" on ebay really cheap so I grabbed it. The tappedout list (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-06-15-mishra-edh/) says the total is $238.54 but I'm pretty sure if you shopped on other sites, you could get it >$200. However, I have yet to test this deck so I'm not 100% I will keep this list in its entirety.
nice to see you trimmed some fat man. Seems like a nice start to your list - just remember that one of the beauties of edh is that decks dont rotate; so you can incrementally improve a deck once youve found you enjoy it; so start with something you can afford and build towards a 'final' build.
I see what you did with sphinx's name btw.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
The hardest match ups are most definitely fast and aggressive decks - most notably flying voltrons like Voltron Prossh, Bruna, Sigarda, etc. I dont run many flying blockers, so normally these sorts of decks steam roll me. That said, i tend to play multiplayer, so voltron decks tend draw hate early, and since Mishra isnt a key threat to them at the time, they tend not to focus this deck down. If you wanted to take this deck 1v1, i would recommend looking in the main post at the alternative build - Mishra Storm Combo. If you want to alter this deck to be more competitive purely based on my build, i would drop a lot of weaker effects for counterspells and removal, being blue and black you have lots of those at your access. I would drop a lot of recursion for tutoring effects. I would also throw on a bit more stax to pin down the early game.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
edit - i said i dunno way too much in this post. clearly its too early to be posting.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Spreading Plague anyone?
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Arcane Denial - COUNTERSPELL IN THE HOUSE! Card draw for me, game threat remover for them.
Portcullis - why play creatures when i can start stacking creature hate
Spreading Plague - creature hate for all them aggro decks in my meta.
Tangle Wire - the stax grows...
3x Snow Basics - Snow-Covered Island Snow-Covered Swamp Snow-Covered Mountain
Out:
Master of Etherium - Waste of space
Etherium-Horn Sorcerer - Not as good without loads of ramp
ice cave - less ramp, less value
arcbound retriever - top of library wasnt as useful as in hand
Crumbling Necropolis - etb tapped
Lonely Sandbar - etb tapped
Grixis Panorama - slow mana is slow
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
My meta is still aggro dominated. Depending on how the deck performs, i also grabbed a copy of pendrell mists
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
I know I shouldnt give a card like that all star status due to lucky coin flips, but my god, what an oppressive showing. Not dropping that from the build...ever
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage