My thinking was that it could come back from the graveyard if it got destroyed. Something which would be harder with an enchantment or artifact. Plus it can be cast for zero, sacced to Jarad, etc.
My thinking was that it could come back from the graveyard if it got destroyed. Something which would be harder with an enchantment or artifact. Plus it can be cast for zero, sacced to Jarad, etc.
Ah, you want to give it other uses. I thought you were literally looking for a budget Phyrexian Altar. In that case you could definitely swap it in a budget circumstance.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Played a couple of games of Commander with a different deck. Just wondering now about including things like spot removal, board wipes, artifact hate and ways to save your graveyard from being exiled. Is it worth including things like that and if so, what's best?
Some cards I'm considering at the moment are Perpetual Timepiece to protect the GY and can also help fill it a bit, Thrilling Encore or Golgari Charm to protect against boardwipes, and maybe Reclamation Sage needs to be in there? Or am I being too cautios? Maybe Bojuka Bog to shoot down other people's graveyards?
Some cards I'm considering at the moment are Perpetual Timepiece to protect the GY and can also help fill it a bit, Thrilling Encore or Golgari Charm to protect against boardwipes, and maybe Reclamation Sage needs to be in there? Or am I being too cautios? Maybe Bojuka Bog to shoot down other people's graveyards?
I use Nullmage Shepherd for artifact and enchantment removal. It's slower than Reclamation Sage, but it's reusable and has been useful for me in my meta.
Played a couple of games of Commander with a different deck. Just wondering now about including things like spot removal, board wipes, artifact hate and ways to save your graveyard from being exiled. Is it worth including things like that and if so, what's best?
Some cards I'm considering at the moment are Perpetual Timepiece to protect the GY and can also help fill it a bit, Thrilling Encore or Golgari Charm to protect against boardwipes, and maybe Reclamation Sage needs to be in there? Or am I being too cautios? Maybe Bojuka Bog to shoot down other people's graveyards?
Some of the creatures I run are to protect against those very things. Glen Elendra Archmage counters almost all things that could bother us. Nullmage Shepherd is boss against enchantments and artifacts that can be a nuisance. That said, I've made it pretty clear that this deck is weak against graveyard hate. I don't want a reactive deck; this deck is very proactive. For the most part, graveyard removal at the beginning of the game isn't such a big deal. If it were to come late game, you can always discard or gravetutor for an Eldrazi Titan in order to save your graveyard.
Some cards I'm considering at the moment are Perpetual Timepiece to protect the GY and can also help fill it a bit, Thrilling Encore or Golgari Charm to protect against boardwipes, and maybe Reclamation Sage needs to be in there? Or am I being too cautios? Maybe Bojuka Bog to shoot down other people's graveyards?
I use Nullmage Shepherd for artifact and enchantment removal. It's slower than Reclamation Sage, but it's reusable and has been useful for me in my meta.
Exactly my logic. I like to try and use recurring and/or reusable effects in multiplayer EDH because the threats can come from anywhere.
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Ooh! Seems very interesting! It's great for replacing bodies. Depending on how the triggers resolve the zombie token could enter play with +1/+1 counters!
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Whoa! If it's cheap (which I doubt since it'll definitely see modern play in dredge and if standard gets a competitive reanimator deck then it'll be a 4-of there) then it's definitely going in the Budget Build. I can see some consideration for the Zombie Build.
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It's an uncommon in a set that should be sold quite good because of Omniscience, Crucible of Worlds and Scapeshift reprints, so I doubt that it will cost too much.
Lovin this thread DementedKirby! Kudos for such a well written guide!
On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate each of your decks in comparison with each other? I am super interested in your Zombie build, but your main build is apparently "light years ahead" in efficiency. Is the zombie build that far off from being as good as your main one?
It's an uncommon in a set that should be sold quite good because of Omniscience, Crucible of Worlds and Scapeshift reprints, so I doubt that it will cost too much.
On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate each of your decks in comparison with each other? I am super interested in your Zombie build, but your main build is apparently "light years ahead" in efficiency. Is the zombie build that far off from being as good as your main one?
The Budget Build is amazing in casual pods or playing with groups who challenge each other on a budget. So it would be unfair to compare it with the other two. But between the Main Build and the Zombie Build it's hard to gauge. I use the Main Build the most (hence why it's called the "Main" Build) but I really like the Zombie Build as well. I use the Zombie Build when I'm not worried about too many threats (since the Main Build has more responses than the Zombie Build). I also haven't played with that version recently. Looking over the deck list I feel like I should go back on my suggestions from recently released sets to see how to improve on it. I've already seen some potential cuts so I'll get in on that later.
So, humility aside, I would rate my Main Build an 9/10 and my Zombie Build a 8/10, compared to each other. Only because it has taken me so long to fine tune the Main Build. It is one of the decks I have worked on the most.
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I'm improving the land base a bit. Hell's Caretaker was a great reanimator but Whisper is just that much better. Endless Ranks of the Dead always painted an immediate target on my head so I'd rather get some more mana while I'm at it, instead. So I swapped it out for Growing Rites of Itlimoc.
As of 4/28/17, the decks have more than doubled in price from ~$1,600 to $3,100. I'm hypothesizing that it's due to the recent Reserved List buyout. Because last year the 3 dual lands + Gaea's Cradle were around $933 and now they add up to $2,052.93 - which is ridiculous. Survival of the Fittest also spiked in price to almost $125.
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What's the thinking on Josu Vess, Lich Knight? Seems getting to ten mana shouldn't be too big a deal? Along with Rooftop Storm it seems like a beast as you can cast it for 0 and then just pay the 5B kicker cost for the eight Zombie Knights.
I'm waiting for the entirety of the spoilers to be revealed. But the set does look amazing for this deck (particularly my Zombie Build).
Josu Vess, Lich Knight is great at making 8 zombies for 6 mana. However, apart from that it doesn't do much else. I have to cast it in order to use the kicker, meaning I can't use that ability if I'm reanimating him.
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Isareth the Awakener - Isareth seems like a great reanimator but you have to attack with her which risks her getting killed. However, she has deathtouch so she'll kill whatever blocks her. You can also pay any mana for her ability, which is also a plus. The only downside is the reanimated creature can get exiled by so much as a bounce or tuck.
Liliana, Untouched by Death - This planeswalker will definitely find a home in the Zombie build. Every single ability is relevant.
Open the Graves - Not only is this card amazing in all builds, but in the Zombie Build it can go infinite with Gravecrawler and Phyrexian Altar without any need for other zombies on the battlefield. It'll also create infinite zombie tokens.
Stitcher's Supplier - It might be a bit underwhelming in multiplayer EDH since it's just a 1/1 for B but in the Zombie Build it will take advantage of all the tribal boons. Plus, it selfmills for 3 upon entering the battlefield and dying. Meaning that it can be sacrificed and reanimated for some epic selfmilling.
Dryad Greenseeker - Could be helpful in preventing a land from the top of the deck in getting selfmilled.
Desecrated Tomb - Whenever creatures get shuffled back into the library, reanimated, or recovered into your hand from the graveyard, you get a free 1/1 flyer. This is something that happens constantly so it's a great card to consider.
Gravewaker - In and of itself a 5/5 flyer for 6 isn't so bad. Even then, it can always just be reanimated. The activated ability is a bit expensive and there are only 4 creatures where it would be cheaper to reanimate this way than with Havengul Lich. So the cost of the ability is something that might deter its inclusion.
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I guess Graveyard Marshall is just shooting yourself in the foot (or worse). I was talking to someone about the M19 cards and they couldn't see how Open the Graves was better than Liliana's Mastery. And then they complain that I only do Zombies... They don't understand it. Like how great Stitcher's Supplier is.
I guess Graveyard Marshall is just shooting yourself in the foot (or worse). I was talking to someone about the M19 cards and they couldn't see how Open the Graves was better than Liliana's Mastery. And then they complain that I only do Zombies... They don't understand it. Like how great Stitcher's Supplier is.
Yeah, each creature in this deck is better than a 2/2 zombie token. So Graveyard Marshal is a card I didn't even consider for discussion.
Open the Graves is better than Liliana's Mastery for the simple fact that it can facilitate an infinite combo with just two more cards.
Stitcher's Supplier is great. I just have to see if it's worth considering or testing in the Zombie Build. Every time a new set comes out it's so hard to make cuts and swaps with the deck.
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I'm definitely excited to try out the new Liliana and Open the Graves.
I'm gonna have to take the time and go through the list again. I think it's almost a complete copy of yours, but I'd like to personalize it a little bit and see where it takes me.
BTW, I'm a HUGE fan of Embalmer's Tools. It's such a fun card to play with in the deck.
I'm definitely excited to try out the new Liliana and Open the Graves.
I'm gonna have to take the time and go through the list again. I think it's almost a complete copy of yours, but I'd like to personalize it a little bit and see where it takes me.
BTW, I'm a HUGE fan of Embalmer's Tools. It's such a fun card to play with in the deck.
Embalmer's Tools is ridiculous. I remember having a conversation about it when it came out. But to me no discussion was necessary; it's a no-brainer. Being able to tap out all zombies at the end of the turn before yours and keep doing it until you get no more zombies is insane. Plus, when combined with Seedborn Muse it's even more broken because you can do it at the end of each turn. Combining it with Mesmeric Orb means that having all those zombies tapped before your untap step triggers all those instances for Mesmeric Orb. It's just an amazing card to have in the deck. And it's super cheap to cast, too.
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I'm definitely excited to try out the new Liliana and Open the Graves.
I'm gonna have to take the time and go through the list again. I think it's almost a complete copy of yours, but I'd like to personalize it a little bit and see where it takes me.
BTW, I'm a HUGE fan of Embalmer's Tools. It's such a fun card to play with in the deck.
Embalmer's Tools is ridiculous. I remember having a conversation about it when it came out. But to me no discussion was necessary; it's a no-brainer. Being able to tap out all zombies at the end of the turn before yours and keep doing it until you get no more zombies is insane. Plus, when combined with Seedborn Muse it's even more broken because you can do it at the end of each turn. Combining it with Mesmeric Orb means that having all those zombies tapped before your untap step triggers all those instances for Mesmeric Orb. It's just an amazing card to have in the deck. And it's super cheap to cast, too.
I actually had it out with Seedborn Muse. By the time my turn came around, I had at least 30 zombies out. And the player before me thought it would be a good idea to play Coat of Arms.
Right, I'm getting close... This is where I'm at, it's been quite restricted by budget by managed to trade for a lot of it. Just need some help doing the final cuts and if there are any other cards I should definitely get:
So I'm at 103 at the moment... I know it doesn't follow the usual path but as I said it's been about budget, hence why there's no Doubling Season, Parallel Lives, or the expensive lands. I know you're not big on Josu but he's sort of my Grave Titan. Perpetual Timepiece is one of my graveyard protection things instead of the Eldrazi, and it sort of does a mini Embalmer's Tools effect. Risen Executioner seems weak I think.
Ah, you want to give it other uses. I thought you were literally looking for a budget Phyrexian Altar. In that case you could definitely swap it in a budget circumstance.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Some cards I'm considering at the moment are Perpetual Timepiece to protect the GY and can also help fill it a bit, Thrilling Encore or Golgari Charm to protect against boardwipes, and maybe Reclamation Sage needs to be in there? Or am I being too cautios? Maybe Bojuka Bog to shoot down other people's graveyards?
I use Nullmage Shepherd for artifact and enchantment removal. It's slower than Reclamation Sage, but it's reusable and has been useful for me in my meta.
Some of the creatures I run are to protect against those very things. Glen Elendra Archmage counters almost all things that could bother us. Nullmage Shepherd is boss against enchantments and artifacts that can be a nuisance. That said, I've made it pretty clear that this deck is weak against graveyard hate. I don't want a reactive deck; this deck is very proactive. For the most part, graveyard removal at the beginning of the game isn't such a big deal. If it were to come late game, you can always discard or gravetutor for an Eldrazi Titan in order to save your graveyard.
Exactly my logic. I like to try and use recurring and/or reusable effects in multiplayer EDH because the threats can come from anywhere.
By the way, welcome to the forums!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Thanks! I'm glad my deck list has been helpful!
Ooh! Seems very interesting! It's great for replacing bodies. Depending on how the triggers resolve the zombie token could enter play with +1/+1 counters!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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http://mythicspoiler.com/m19/cards/stitcherssupplier.html in case it won't load the card link.
Whoa! If it's cheap (which I doubt since it'll definitely see modern play in dredge and if standard gets a competitive reanimator deck then it'll be a 4-of there) then it's definitely going in the Budget Build. I can see some consideration for the Zombie Build.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate each of your decks in comparison with each other? I am super interested in your Zombie build, but your main build is apparently "light years ahead" in efficiency. Is the zombie build that far off from being as good as your main one?
(Also known as Xenphire)
Hm, that is true.
Thanks a lot!
The Budget Build is amazing in casual pods or playing with groups who challenge each other on a budget. So it would be unfair to compare it with the other two. But between the Main Build and the Zombie Build it's hard to gauge. I use the Main Build the most (hence why it's called the "Main" Build) but I really like the Zombie Build as well. I use the Zombie Build when I'm not worried about too many threats (since the Main Build has more responses than the Zombie Build). I also haven't played with that version recently. Looking over the deck list I feel like I should go back on my suggestions from recently released sets to see how to improve on it. I've already seen some potential cuts so I'll get in on that later.
So, humility aside, I would rate my Main Build an 9/10 and my Zombie Build a 8/10, compared to each other. Only because it has taken me so long to fine tune the Main Build. It is one of the decks I have worked on the most.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Whoah! That Liliana is crazy! Definitely gonna find a slot for it in the Zombie Build!
Here are the latest changes I'm considering for the Zombie Build:
Nephalia Drownyard -> Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Academy Ruins -> Morphic Pool
Hell's Caretaker -> Whisper, Blood Liturgist
Endless Ranks of the Dead -> Growing Rites of Itlimoc
Splendid Reclamation -> World Shaper
Genesis -> Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Teferi, Temporal Archmage -> Final Parting
Rogue's Passage -> Verdant Catacombs
Ancient Tomb -> Misty Rainforest
Temple of the False God -> Polluted Delta
Darksteel Citadel -> Dryad Arbor
I'm improving the land base a bit. Hell's Caretaker was a great reanimator but Whisper is just that much better. Endless Ranks of the Dead always painted an immediate target on my head so I'd rather get some more mana while I'm at it, instead. So I swapped it out for Growing Rites of Itlimoc.
As of 4/28/17, the decks have more than doubled in price from ~$1,600 to $3,100. I'm hypothesizing that it's due to the recent Reserved List buyout. Because last year the 3 dual lands + Gaea's Cradle were around $933 and now they add up to $2,052.93 - which is ridiculous. Survival of the Fittest also spiked in price to almost $125.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
What's the thinking on Josu Vess, Lich Knight? Seems getting to ten mana shouldn't be too big a deal? Along with Rooftop Storm it seems like a beast as you can cast it for 0 and then just pay the 5B kicker cost for the eight Zombie Knights.
Josu Vess, Lich Knight is great at making 8 zombies for 6 mana. However, apart from that it doesn't do much else. I have to cast it in order to use the kicker, meaning I can't use that ability if I'm reanimating him.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Yeah, each creature in this deck is better than a 2/2 zombie token. So Graveyard Marshal is a card I didn't even consider for discussion.
Open the Graves is better than Liliana's Mastery for the simple fact that it can facilitate an infinite combo with just two more cards.
Stitcher's Supplier is great. I just have to see if it's worth considering or testing in the Zombie Build. Every time a new set comes out it's so hard to make cuts and swaps with the deck.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I'm gonna have to take the time and go through the list again. I think it's almost a complete copy of yours, but I'd like to personalize it a little bit and see where it takes me.
BTW, I'm a HUGE fan of Embalmer's Tools. It's such a fun card to play with in the deck.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Embalmer's Tools is ridiculous. I remember having a conversation about it when it came out. But to me no discussion was necessary; it's a no-brainer. Being able to tap out all zombies at the end of the turn before yours and keep doing it until you get no more zombies is insane. Plus, when combined with Seedborn Muse it's even more broken because you can do it at the end of each turn. Combining it with Mesmeric Orb means that having all those zombies tapped before your untap step triggers all those instances for Mesmeric Orb. It's just an amazing card to have in the deck. And it's super cheap to cast, too.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I actually had it out with Seedborn Muse. By the time my turn came around, I had at least 30 zombies out. And the player before me thought it would be a good idea to play Coat of Arms.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
1 Stitcher's Supplier
1 Cryptbreaker
1 Gravecrawler
1 Relentless Dead
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Death Baron
1 Diregraf Captain
1 Lich Lord of Unx
1 Lord of the Accursed
1 Lord of the Undead
1 Nantuko Husk
1 Plague Belcher
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Zombie Master
1 Filth
1 Gisa and Geralf
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Josu Vess, Lich Knight
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Risen Executioner
1 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
1 Undead Alchemist
1 Undead Warchief
1 Whisper, Blood Liturgist
1 World Shaper
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Ghoulcaller Gisa
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
1 Havengul Lich
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Taigam, Sidisi's Hand
1 The Scarab God
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Gempalm Polluter
1 Gravespawn Sovereign
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Sol Ring
1 Embalmer's Tools
1 Perpetual Timepiece
1 Coat of Arms
Sorceries:11
1 Dread Summons
1 Life from the Loam
1 Buried Alive
1 Victimize
1 Dread Return
1 Jarad's Orders
1 Splendid Reclamation
1 Final Parting
1 Living Death
1 Rise from the Grave
1 Zombie Apocalypse
Instants:3
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Grisly Salvage
1 Empty the Pits
Enchantments:9
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Arcane Adaptation
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
1 Journey to Eternity
1 Open The Graves
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Path of Discovery
1 Deadbridge Chant
1 Rooftop Storm
Others:3
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Liliana, Death's Majesty
1 Liliana, Untouched By Death
Lands:34
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Command Tower
1 Dismal Backwater
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
1 Golgari Guildgate
2 Island
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Mana Confluence
1 Morphic Pool
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Opulent Palace
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Sunken Hollow
5 Swamp
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Unholy Grotto
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Yavimaya Coast
So I'm at 103 at the moment... I know it doesn't follow the usual path but as I said it's been about budget, hence why there's no Doubling Season, Parallel Lives, or the expensive lands. I know you're not big on Josu but he's sort of my Grave Titan. Perpetual Timepiece is one of my graveyard protection things instead of the Eldrazi, and it sort of does a mini Embalmer's Tools effect. Risen Executioner seems weak I think.