Wouldn't including Bruna just allow your opponents to blow you out completely? I mean, stealing it or cloning it and just making their own Voltron creature compliments of you. They'd actually kill your copy because the original would trigger for attacking, and the clone would trigger for blocking if I'm not mistaken.
I think that Bruna is the most powerful version of that effect, but it could hugely swing in your opponents favor, but it gets around Fracturing Gust, so really which would be worse for the deck? I don't know how much I want to give my opponents the tools in which to beat me - whenever possible
I guess Bruna is slightly more susceptible to blow-outs, but "what happens if they steal my Commander?" is a major concern of any Voltron deck. I get what you're saying, that just copying her is sufficient because of her triggered ability, but I don't think it's enough of a reason to not run her. Bruna does what I've always wanted Retether to do: be one card that can immediately get me back in a game that's not going to plan. You're not mistaken about it being a total disaster if someone flashes in a clone before blockers are declared, and while people play a lot of clones and cards that grant flash in EDH it still seems like a corner case to be worrying about. I also think it's worth having some insurance against Purify effects because otherwise only countermagic answers them.
All that said Bruna in this deck is still untested, at least by me, so who knows.
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
Retether isn't good because among other things, it requires you resurrect harmful enchantments. You could theoretically order them on the stack after one that gives her shroud, but I digress. If Bruna does not have haste then she has to survive the table without being clones or stolen. I agree, it is the most valuable version of that effect, and if you're in a position where you need it - well you're either favored to lose anyway and better off betting on the long shot of being blown out. I will dust off my copy and give it a chance asap. Most likely next weekend though.
Action_Mane I'm starting to think you may be right about Bruna. She's really only any good when you're behind in a big way or battling another Aura-based Voltron deck. Still, I want to test her out as an insurance policy. (I don't get to play nearly as much Magic as I'd like to, anymore. Never grow up, kids...)
My Magic Origins set review is now up at the bottom of the original post. Dig it!
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
I didn't get a chance to use Bruna. Never needed it, I played suboptimally and lost a very long game. But I am kinda interested her as an alternative wincon. She gets big quickly. The blowout thing is still a concern, and so is theft. Pemmin's Aura should help. Since clones don't target it becomes more of a problem, but they can just stare one another down in some kind of mutually assured destruction type of deal.
Haven't seen anything in Origins that's all that interesting. Although I've been toying with Monastery Mentor now that I've got a spare. (Recently cut from another deck). I'm a huge fan of Tithe also. I think that it's one of the better land tutors. Instant speed, can find both W/x Shocklands.
I like the mentor as it gives any voltron deck the option to go wide, however only in a low CMC deck. Your build does seem like a really great fit.
I do think Sword of the Animist is worth consideration. You can't donate it, but it really seems like it has the potential to be another Land Tax for white and should be very useful for any deck not running a green ramp package. The biggest downside is that you have to attack to get it to do its thing.
Monastery Mentor might be another way to go if Bruna, Light of Alabaster isn't effective as a backup win condition. It's quite a different card than Bruna, but what they have in common in this deck is that they let me attack from another angle. Mentor sure does play better with Jeskai Ascendancy, though.
Sword of the Animist is right up this deck's alley, but the issue is that it's very unlikely to help ramp me into Zedruu the Greathearted. Still, the deck wants to keep hitting land drops and such once Zedruu's in play. There's the other issue of needing enough basic lands in the deck to make sure it's more than a Legendary Leonin Scimitar
One piece of ramp I've been thinking more about lately is Chrome Mox. It's obviously a good rock, but what sets it apart from, say Mox Diamond, is that I can play it as a blank card for donation. It's not as synergistic with the deck as Sphere of the Suns is because it's a rock or a gift, not a rock then a gift. Still, it's pretty awesome to play a mox on turn 1.
I believe Sword of the Animist is a worse card than Tithe. You're running 9 total basics, and it's only +1/+1. Also, Chrome Mox is IMO trying to be too "cute". It generates card disadvantage, gives you 1 type of Mana most ofgen and not all of the permanents have to be donated at all times. I think Mox Diamond is good.
I hadn't thought to compare Sword to Tithe, but your hierarchy may be right. Tithe helps get the ball rolling and makes more opening hands keepable whereas Sword only speeds up the transition from "cast Zedruu with protection up" to "draw all the cards; cast all the spells." In that way it's almost a win-more card.
...not all of the permanents have to be donated at all times...
Aw, but sharing is caring! Chrome Mox perhaps is too cute if viewed as primarily a gift, but I think it's more reasonable to look at it as a solid piece of ramp that has an alternate donation mode. Making only one color most of the time is somewhat mitigated by getting to have some control over what that color is. Pitching a card to it is certainly a drawback, and one that's exacerbated by the deck's sensitivity to drawing a mix of cards in the right categories. I think Chrome Mox has a slight edge over Mox Diamond in this deck because of the relatively low land count. Two-land opening hands are quite playable with the help of a Signet or a Cantrip, but Mox Diamond is super awkward in those situations. The Moxen are something to think about, though.
Let's take a closer look at Tragic Arrogance. Because of donations, in this deck it would play a role analogous to Calming Verse stapled to Vandalblast in a normal deck (one that tries to keep control of its permanents). To get the most mileage out of it, though, this deck needs to run some creatures to donate (donating planeswalkers seems like an awful idea). Good ones include
but playing creatures to donate has the ripple effect of needing more ways to make Zedruu evasive, as getting chump blocked by my own creature is not where I want to be. Still, the creatures listed above, and probably others, are fine to run on their own and really supercharge Tragic Arrogance. More Zedruu-safe sweepers are always welcome.
Edit: The opening post has been updated with comparisons of Zedruu to most of the other Jeskai Legends, and with a Strengths and Weaknesses summary section.
I really don't like Mass Calcify as it risks whiffing on something I need gone. Have you maybe thought about Divine Reckoning?
The deck seems very colour-hungry, for example her donate cost... how has Grim Monolith been working for you? In colour- and mana-hungry decks I quite like Coalition Relic for the little storage feature.
I don't mind the idea of Bruna so long as you have a counterspell ready for that Bribery.
Creatures are especially awful to donate as Opponent #1 can just be like "hey Opponent #2, wanna attack into this thing drawing Hunding cards?" My personal favourites have always been land trade effects like Political Trickery, which have the added benefit of denying opponents powerful nonbasics.
I just don't like Ring of Evos Isle. Doesn't add that much beatdown, isn't safely donatable, requires mana open to protect. Bleh.
What are your thoughts on the Vows? Sure, 3CC, but sooooo versatile. Can be lockdown or offense, whatever you need. On second thought, these have a bit of a wacky interaction with donation, as "you" changes.
...I really don't like Mass Calcify as it risks whiffing on something I need gone. Have you maybe thought about Divine Reckoning?
The same is true of Inundate and, to a much lesser extent, Winds of Rath. Having my sweepers miss some things is an unfortunate side effect of them being Zedruu-safe. It's why more hits-most-things sweepers like Wave of Reckoning and, more recently, Chandra's Ignition have become cards to consider. I really like having sweepers that don't hit my general, but maybe it's worth having Terminus or Final Judgment around just to be safe. I have played Divine Reckoning and it just does not work. Whereas Mass Calcify and Inundatemay miss the dude you need killed, Divine Reckoningnecessarily misses that guy.
The deck seems very colour-hungry, for example her donate cost... how has Grim Monolith been working for you? In colour- and mana-hungry decks I quite like Coalition Relic for the little storage feature.
Grim Monolith is really good at setting up a turn of playing Zedruu and equipping or enchanting her with protection. It can also let me jump the curve and play a sweeper way ahead of schedule, if need be. You're dead on about this deck being color-hungry. Coalition Relic is definitely something to consider because it's basically a colored mana producing Worn Powerstone. Also jumping from 3 to 6 mana is just right for jamming the goat and leaving up Arcane Denial.
Creatures are especially awful to donate as Opponent #1 can just be like "hey Opponent #2, wanna attack into this thing drawing Hunding cards?" My personal favourites have always been land trade effects like Political Trickery, which have the added benefit of denying opponents powerful nonbasics.
Yeah, creatures that aren't named Magus of the Moat make pretty bad gifts. There's an awful lot of peer-pressure to run Political Trickery and it seems pretty well justified. Something I hadn't considered before is that Myriad Landscape is widely played, is susceptible to being stolen because it comes into play tapped, and is great to steal on turn 3.
I just don't like Ring of Evos Isle. Doesn't add that much beatdown, isn't safely donatable, requires mana open to protect. Bleh.
It's definitely the worst protection spell that I run. Is there anything better out there that I don't already run?
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
I actually should have phrased better. You've got stuff like Faith's Fetters for individual, problem cards. What I worry about with stuff like Mass Calcify is leaving the white player (or in the case of Inundate, the blue player) with a possibly better board position than me. Reckoning may always leave one dude, but unless that player's also playing voltron, that often won't be as much of a problem as risking leaving their whole board, or even a bunch of it. I also feel people underestimate Reckoning's ability to come in for another go. Important card advantage on a wrath. But if it hasn't worked for you, fair enough.
It's definitely the worst protection spell that I run. Is there anything better out there that I don't already run?
Hmm, off the top of my head, I think the two best protection spells you're not running right now are Swan Song and Muddle the Mixture if we're not talking specifically about auras/equipment. If my experience running Narset aura voltron is any indication, your worst enemies aren't really creatures; they're wraths, counterspells and spot removal. Song and Muddle counter the main problems. Song is awesome 'cause you can drop Zedruu with only one extra mana out; Muddle is obviously a very nice toolbox if you don't need the counter.
In terms of auras: if I were you, I would start being more concerned with finishing power. When I originally built Zedruu, it occurred to me there's a bit of a bell curve when it comes to donated permanents. Drawing three or four cards on your upkeep (and gaining a bit of life) is super duper. But past a certain point, you'll be drawing cards that just draw you more cards, rather than ones that won't allow you to pull the trigger when the opportunity arises. You've already got a healthy supply of cheap, lower-impact donate targets; I don't think you should have any trouble drawing a couple extra cards. I'd start looking at more powerful auras higher on the curve. Drake Umbra and Mammoth Umbra protect her from wraths and Terrors, while adding some much-needed pressure.
Also, I'm assuming Three Dreams occurred to you? Too expensive for your taste?
I actually should have phrased better. You've got stuff like Faith's Fetters for individual, problem cards. What I worry about with stuff like Mass Calcify is leaving the white player (or in the case of Inundate, the blue player) with a possibly better board position than me. Reckoning may always leave one dude, but unless that player's also playing voltron, that often won't be as much of a problem as risking leaving their whole board, or even a bunch of it. I also feel people underestimate Reckoning's ability to come in for another go. Important card advantage on a wrath. But if it hasn't worked for you, fair enough.
I think I get what you're saying: this deck is already set up to defeat a single threat, so leaving one thing behind is OK. Thing is that opposing Voltrons are not the only common threat to evade Divine Reckoning. When I cast it, too often it left behind a Goblin Welder or Sheoldred, Whispering One or something which let their controllers benefit more from Divine Reckoning than I was.
Anyway, determining whether or not Divine Reckoning's good enough is less important now that Tragic Arrogance exists. I'm much more open to the idea of leaving my opponents with one creature each if I get to choose which creature they keep... and also kill all their artifacts and enchantments... and maybe tag a random planeswalker. Even though it has the lower CMC of the two I'm going to try swapping out Inundate, rather than Mass Calcify for Tragic Arrogance. Costing UUU makes it really tough to leave up mana for countermagic and there are just so many "when ~this~ enters the battlefield, do something awesome" creatures in EDH that bouncing the board is a big liability (except when you happen to have Torpor Orb out).
Hmm, off the top of my head, I think the two best protection spells you're not running right now are Swan Song and Muddle the Mixture if we're not talking specifically about auras/equipment. If my experience running Narset aura voltron is any indication, your worst enemies aren't really creatures; they're wraths, counterspells and spot removal. Song and Muddle counter the main problems. Song is awesome 'cause you can drop Zedruu with only one extra mana out; Muddle is obviously a very nice toolbox if you don't need the counter.
Now it's my turn to clarify. When I think of protection spells in this deck, I think of things that continually protect Zedruu rather than one-shot effects. If we're talking one-time saves then it's hard to do much better than Reality Ripple. That card saves Zedruu from everything without split-second; even Final Judgment cast off a Boseiju, Who Shelters All. It lets her keep all her auras and doesn't undo previous donations. You could even potentially phase out a blocker if the situation calls for it. Swan Song is probably the third best (after Mana Drain and Force of Will, which each have their own issues) counterspell that I'm not running. I feel it necessary to partition cards that can save Zedruu into Protection (cards that can only protect the goat) and Countermagic (cards which protect the queen as one of several modes) because of how fragile Zedruu really is. One of the key differences between Zedruu and Narset is that Narset has hexproof built in. This makes her far more difficult to kill so fewer cards a threat to her. Therefore you don't need to protect her as often which makes one-time saves much more appealing. Conversely, Zedruu is liable to randomly go farming so continuous protection effects are better than one-shots. (Boros Charm has been good in my limited testing with it and gets a pass because it's potentially repeatable with Sunforger and Mistveil Plains. I've got my eye on it.) Muddle the Mixture is something to think about because my two strongest hosers, Rest in Peace and Torpor Orb, both have CMC 2.
In terms of auras: if I were you, I would start being more concerned with finishing power. When I originally built Zedruu, it occurred to me there's a bit of a bell curve when it comes to donated permanents. Drawing three or four cards on your upkeep (and gaining a bit of life) is super duper. But past a certain point, you'll be drawing cards that just draw you more cards, rather than ones that won't allow you to pull the trigger when the opportunity arises. You've already got a healthy supply of cheap, lower-impact donate targets; I don't think you should have any trouble drawing a couple extra cards. I'd start looking at more powerful auras higher on the curve. Drake Umbra and Mammoth Umbra protect her from wraths and Terrors, while adding some much-needed pressure.
Going bigger with the auras is one direction to take the deck, but I don't think it's the best way. A big part of the reason is tempo. To play a big aura and keep Zedruu safe requires a whole lot more mana than playing a Scarab and leaving up mana does. Cards like Drake and Mammoth Umbra and Spectra Ward pump and protect from some things, but not from a lot of things. It's just plain risky to tap out for something like that. To your point about the cheap low-impact donations making the deck into a machine whose only function is to grease its self, low-impact is not no-impact. Even with just Tahngarth's Rage and Spectral Flight Zedruu flies in for 7 Commander damage which is nothing to scoff at.
Also, I'm assuming Three Dreams occurred to you? Too expensive for your taste?
Edit: Got to play a few games this weekend. Tragic Arrogance was spectacular both times I cast it while Bruna just rotted away in my hand. I imagine that she can be pretty good if you're trying to recover from a catastrophic Zedruu death, but in every other situation she's just Archangel. Tragic Arrogance is so good that I'm considering Equipoise and even Ward of Bones for more of that sort of effect.
Helm of the Gods is a more awkward version of Ethereal Armor since a major goal of this deck is to control as few enchantments as possible. Ethereal Armor gets around this by migrating with the rest of the flock, but that's not really an option for equipment.
I have been unhappy with Dust Corona lately. Even in tandem with Spectral Flight it just doesn't do enough. What to replace it with, though, has really vexed me. Not sure I even need it to become another pump aura since Coalition Relic and Chrome Mox each have some appeal as well.
Lastly, Tragic Arrogance has been so good and Bruna, Light of Alabaster so situational that I'm going to swap the latter for the former. It may be wrong to go without a backup plan, but hey, no guts no glory. Sadly Equipoise hasn't done what I'd hoped it would because it lets my opponents use their things on their own turns, but I'll give it a few more games to prove its self.
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
It's been awhile since I've seen you post any findings! How has the latest testing been? Have you found the hypotheses from your last post to be supported?
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I've haven't really gotten to do any major testing in a while, just a few pick-up games at a party last weekend. Based on those games, though, I was right about Dust Corona, Bruna, Light of Alabaster, Tragic Arrogance, and Equipoise: bad, bad, good, bad. The corona just doesn't do enough and it seems that its destined to join Taste for Mayhem and Furor of the Bitten on the sidelines. Even with people gunning for Zedruu, Bruna isn't what I need. If Zedruu gets killed before I get to suit her up with auras, then I don't lose very much by her dying. On the other hand, if I get several turns of upkeep triggers then the card advantage from that will usually make up for Zedruu getting blown away. Tragic Arrogance is insane, and it only gets crazier when you get to force an opponent to sacrifice Debtors' Knell but keep the Blue Scarab attached to your general. Poor old Equipoise... There maaaaay be some metagames where it's good, but the fact that it doesn't do anything to stop people from doing stuff on their own turns is too much for me.
I'm going to give the mana rocks (Chrome Mox and Coalition Relic) a try because sometimes this deck could use some more curve-jumping power. I'm less hopeful for the Mox than for the Relic for reasons enumerated by others above, but I still want to give it a try cause I love me some modality. Relic may end up replacing Grim Monolith in the long run because they ramp in a similar way and the deck is so color-hungry, but I'm going to keep the Monolith a while longer because it's pretty good more often than not. Sunforger has been a slight underperformer so far because of its cost and clunkiness. Eight mana to grab the first instant is a pretty enormous investment, but the power level of the card is through the roof so I'm very hesitant to cut it. Here are the changes I'll test out next:
One other thing is that both Compulsive Research and Thirst for Knowledge have been consistently fantastic. So much so that I kind of want a third 3 CMC card-advantage-generating card drawer. I don't think this deck wants wheel effects but I'm ready to hear arguments to the contrary. Artificer's Epiphany isn't good enough to run, is it?
Edit: It just occurred to me that Everflowing Chalice is another multi-mode card in that I can play it as a mana rock early or as a blank donation target when I don't need more rocks, making it comparable to Chrome Mox. Unlike the Mox, however, the Chalice will never tap for colored mana. On the other hand, it will also never cost another card to cast. Thoughts?
I can see how you'd want the rocks to accelerate. As to using Everflowing Chalice as a blank donation why not just run Darksteel Relic then? I think you have better options to donate than that.
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As I've been play testing the deck also, a near mirror image (I have on color fetches), I've found that anything that does not generate colored mana to be sub-optimal. The deck is built around converting all cheap colored Auras and Artifacts to donation targets, which net more cards and life (to a lesser degree). Coalition Relic is long overdue, as it creates colored mana. Anything that does not do that is wasted space. Drawing more cards and playing more cards is the pinnicle of playing this deck effectively, and without proper mana fixing it is impossible to stand up to the rigid colored mana requirements to do so.
I agree with the soul of the deck, not to play gimmicky hard locks and unfun cards to win. The voltron aspect of the deck appeals to me.
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Because Darksteel Relic can't tap for mana. To me the appeal of Chrome Mox and Everflowing Chalice is that they function as mana rocks when you draw them early but still do something useful when you draw them late and don't need any more rocks. Setting either up to tap for mana and then donating them away later is not a play I endorse. Nor is holding them in hand until you need another blank to gift. As I mentioned in the OP, and as you argue below, colorless mana isn't that great in this deck so Everflowing Chalice is probably not worth it.
I run enough artifacts that it should almost always be an instant speed Divination. It will cost three and net +1 card advantage, but it only ever looks at 2 cards (as opposed to the three each that Compulsive Research and Thirst for Knowledge see) so that's why I'm not sure about it. I'd rather just run Night's Whisper... Think anyone would notice?
Coalition Relic is long overdue, as it creates colored mana.
Agreed. It sat on the sidelines for so long because I was working under the (false) assumption that the deck wants to skip 3 and go straight to 4 mana to drop Zedruu.
Anything that [taps for mana but not colored mana] is wasted space.
I wouldn't go that far. While it may seem strange for me to question this statement when I've said myself that the deck doesn't want Sol Ring, there are enough situations where having a colorless Dark Ritual is highly desirable that I still think Mana Vault is worth it. It enables things like an early sweeper, should you need one, that these colors don't really have other ways to do. It's also very strong when you're trying to set up Zedruu and an equipment or Indestructibility in one turn. Grim Monolith, on the other hand, probably has to go.
I agree with the soul of the deck, not to play gimmicky hard locks and unfun cards to win. The voltron aspect of the deck appeals to me.
It's been very useful getting feedback from someone else who plays the deck. Thank you.
With Battle for Zendikar now fully spoiled I've put up a set review in the opening post. BFZ is going to change things in a big way.
Quarantine Field and Aligned Hedron Network look like they were custom-made for Zedruu. I'm super excited for both and will be testing them as soon as possible. Honestly, it's hard for me to imagine a world where either of those cards don't make the cut in this deck.
Changes to the decklist are coming soon...
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
When I first started playing this deck Zedruu got killed a lot more because I used to just jam her on turn 3 whenever possible. Over time I've come to realize that turn 3-4 isn't early enough to have a good chance of avoiding removal, so now I wait til I can protect her in some way. This new paradigm has been really effective and takes a lot of pressure off my protection spells since each one is more likely to actually block some offensive magic. One drawback to this slower strategy is that, by the time Zedruu lands, the board can already be full of big nasties from my opponents. This matters because blocking and killing Zedruu, even modestly suited up, then becomes a real line of play. Alternatively, those fatties from across the table may switch into retaliate-mode if their controller isn't picking up what I'm putting down. The point is that the situation where Zedruu is the smallest creature on the board comes up more often then you might think and that's one of the places where I see Aligned Hedron Network doing good work. For sure, sometimes the Network will be a liability because it stands to disarm and detain Zedruu. But the card is so powerful and so donate-able that I feel it deserves a shot. It's also a sick combo with Tahngarth's Rage or Pemmin's Aura.
Edit: On a related note, my first instinct was to cut Mass Calcify for Quarantine Field because they're both curve-topping white removal spells. Now I'm starting to have second thoughts. For 5WWMass Calcify kills all the non-white creatures but for 4WWQuarantine Field takes out any two things on the board. There's a pretty big difference between sweepers and spot removal but I've found, in other decks, that for example Violent Ultimatum can play the role of Day of Judgment in a lot of cases because often it's two or three threats that induce a sweeper in the first place.
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I think that Bruna is the most powerful version of that effect, but it could hugely swing in your opponents favor, but it gets around Fracturing Gust, so really which would be worse for the deck? I don't know how much I want to give my opponents the tools in which to beat me - whenever possible
All that said Bruna in this deck is still untested, at least by me, so who knows.
My Magic Origins set review is now up at the bottom of the original post. Dig it!
Haven't seen anything in Origins that's all that interesting. Although I've been toying with Monastery Mentor now that I've got a spare. (Recently cut from another deck). I'm a huge fan of Tithe also. I think that it's one of the better land tutors. Instant speed, can find both W/x Shocklands.
I do think Sword of the Animist is worth consideration. You can't donate it, but it really seems like it has the potential to be another Land Tax for white and should be very useful for any deck not running a green ramp package. The biggest downside is that you have to attack to get it to do its thing.
Monastery Mentor might be another way to go if Bruna, Light of Alabaster isn't effective as a backup win condition. It's quite a different card than Bruna, but what they have in common in this deck is that they let me attack from another angle. Mentor sure does play better with Jeskai Ascendancy, though.
Sword of the Animist is right up this deck's alley, but the issue is that it's very unlikely to help ramp me into Zedruu the Greathearted. Still, the deck wants to keep hitting land drops and such once Zedruu's in play. There's the other issue of needing enough basic lands in the deck to make sure it's more than a Legendary Leonin Scimitar
One piece of ramp I've been thinking more about lately is Chrome Mox. It's obviously a good rock, but what sets it apart from, say Mox Diamond, is that I can play it as a blank card for donation. It's not as synergistic with the deck as Sphere of the Suns is because it's a rock or a gift, not a rock then a gift. Still, it's pretty awesome to play a mox on turn 1.
I hadn't thought to compare Sword to Tithe, but your hierarchy may be right. Tithe helps get the ball rolling and makes more opening hands keepable whereas Sword only speeds up the transition from "cast Zedruu with protection up" to "draw all the cards; cast all the spells." In that way it's almost a win-more card.
Aw, but sharing is caring! Chrome Mox perhaps is too cute if viewed as primarily a gift, but I think it's more reasonable to look at it as a solid piece of ramp that has an alternate donation mode. Making only one color most of the time is somewhat mitigated by getting to have some control over what that color is. Pitching a card to it is certainly a drawback, and one that's exacerbated by the deck's sensitivity to drawing a mix of cards in the right categories. I think Chrome Mox has a slight edge over Mox Diamond in this deck because of the relatively low land count. Two-land opening hands are quite playable with the help of a Signet or a Cantrip, but Mox Diamond is super awkward in those situations. The Moxen are something to think about, though.
Let's take a closer look at Tragic Arrogance. Because of donations, in this deck it would play a role analogous to Calming Verse stapled to Vandalblast in a normal deck (one that tries to keep control of its permanents). To get the most mileage out of it, though, this deck needs to run some creatures to donate (donating planeswalkers seems like an awful idea). Good ones include
Wall of Omens
Steel Golem
Magus of the Moat
Grid Monitor
but playing creatures to donate has the ripple effect of needing more ways to make Zedruu evasive, as getting chump blocked by my own creature is not where I want to be. Still, the creatures listed above, and probably others, are fine to run on their own and really supercharge Tragic Arrogance. More Zedruu-safe sweepers are always welcome.
Edit: The opening post has been updated with comparisons of Zedruu to most of the other Jeskai Legends, and with a Strengths and Weaknesses summary section.
I really don't like Mass Calcify as it risks whiffing on something I need gone. Have you maybe thought about Divine Reckoning?
The deck seems very colour-hungry, for example her donate cost... how has Grim Monolith been working for you? In colour- and mana-hungry decks I quite like Coalition Relic for the little storage feature.
I don't mind the idea of Bruna so long as you have a counterspell ready for that Bribery.
Creatures are especially awful to donate as Opponent #1 can just be like "hey Opponent #2, wanna attack into this thing drawing Hunding cards?" My personal favourites have always been land trade effects like Political Trickery, which have the added benefit of denying opponents powerful nonbasics.
I just don't like Ring of Evos Isle. Doesn't add that much beatdown, isn't safely donatable, requires mana open to protect. Bleh.
What are your thoughts on the Vows? Sure, 3CC, but sooooo versatile. Can be lockdown or offense, whatever you need.On second thought, these have a bit of a wacky interaction with donation, as "you" changes.Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
The same is true of Inundate and, to a much lesser extent, Winds of Rath. Having my sweepers miss some things is an unfortunate side effect of them being Zedruu-safe. It's why more hits-most-things sweepers like Wave of Reckoning and, more recently, Chandra's Ignition have become cards to consider. I really like having sweepers that don't hit my general, but maybe it's worth having Terminus or Final Judgment around just to be safe. I have played Divine Reckoning and it just does not work. Whereas Mass Calcify and Inundate may miss the dude you need killed, Divine Reckoning necessarily misses that guy.
Grim Monolith is really good at setting up a turn of playing Zedruu and equipping or enchanting her with protection. It can also let me jump the curve and play a sweeper way ahead of schedule, if need be. You're dead on about this deck being color-hungry. Coalition Relic is definitely something to consider because it's basically a colored mana producing Worn Powerstone. Also jumping from 3 to 6 mana is just right for jamming the goat and leaving up Arcane Denial.
Yeah, creatures that aren't named Magus of the Moat make pretty bad gifts. There's an awful lot of peer-pressure to run Political Trickery and it seems pretty well justified. Something I hadn't considered before is that Myriad Landscape is widely played, is susceptible to being stolen because it comes into play tapped, and is great to steal on turn 3.
It's definitely the worst protection spell that I run. Is there anything better out there that I don't already run?
Hmm, off the top of my head, I think the two best protection spells you're not running right now are Swan Song and Muddle the Mixture if we're not talking specifically about auras/equipment. If my experience running Narset aura voltron is any indication, your worst enemies aren't really creatures; they're wraths, counterspells and spot removal. Song and Muddle counter the main problems. Song is awesome 'cause you can drop Zedruu with only one extra mana out; Muddle is obviously a very nice toolbox if you don't need the counter.
In terms of auras: if I were you, I would start being more concerned with finishing power. When I originally built Zedruu, it occurred to me there's a bit of a bell curve when it comes to donated permanents. Drawing three or four cards on your upkeep (and gaining a bit of life) is super duper. But past a certain point, you'll be drawing cards that just draw you more cards, rather than ones that won't allow you to pull the trigger when the opportunity arises. You've already got a healthy supply of cheap, lower-impact donate targets; I don't think you should have any trouble drawing a couple extra cards. I'd start looking at more powerful auras higher on the curve. Drake Umbra and Mammoth Umbra protect her from wraths and Terrors, while adding some much-needed pressure.
Also, I'm assuming Three Dreams occurred to you? Too expensive for your taste?
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
I think I get what you're saying: this deck is already set up to defeat a single threat, so leaving one thing behind is OK. Thing is that opposing Voltrons are not the only common threat to evade Divine Reckoning. When I cast it, too often it left behind a Goblin Welder or Sheoldred, Whispering One or something which let their controllers benefit more from Divine Reckoning than I was.
Anyway, determining whether or not Divine Reckoning's good enough is less important now that Tragic Arrogance exists. I'm much more open to the idea of leaving my opponents with one creature each if I get to choose which creature they keep... and also kill all their artifacts and enchantments... and maybe tag a random planeswalker. Even though it has the lower CMC of the two I'm going to try swapping out Inundate, rather than Mass Calcify for Tragic Arrogance. Costing UUU makes it really tough to leave up mana for countermagic and there are just so many "when ~this~ enters the battlefield, do something awesome" creatures in EDH that bouncing the board is a big liability (except when you happen to have Torpor Orb out).
Now it's my turn to clarify. When I think of protection spells in this deck, I think of things that continually protect Zedruu rather than one-shot effects. If we're talking one-time saves then it's hard to do much better than Reality Ripple. That card saves Zedruu from everything without split-second; even Final Judgment cast off a Boseiju, Who Shelters All. It lets her keep all her auras and doesn't undo previous donations. You could even potentially phase out a blocker if the situation calls for it. Swan Song is probably the third best (after Mana Drain and Force of Will, which each have their own issues) counterspell that I'm not running. I feel it necessary to partition cards that can save Zedruu into Protection (cards that can only protect the goat) and Countermagic (cards which protect the queen as one of several modes) because of how fragile Zedruu really is. One of the key differences between Zedruu and Narset is that Narset has hexproof built in. This makes her far more difficult to kill so fewer cards a threat to her. Therefore you don't need to protect her as often which makes one-time saves much more appealing. Conversely, Zedruu is liable to randomly go farming so continuous protection effects are better than one-shots. (Boros Charm has been good in my limited testing with it and gets a pass because it's potentially repeatable with Sunforger and Mistveil Plains. I've got my eye on it.) Muddle the Mixture is something to think about because my two strongest hosers, Rest in Peace and Torpor Orb, both have CMC 2.
Going bigger with the auras is one direction to take the deck, but I don't think it's the best way. A big part of the reason is tempo. To play a big aura and keep Zedruu safe requires a whole lot more mana than playing a Scarab and leaving up mana does. Cards like Drake and Mammoth Umbra and Spectra Ward pump and protect from some things, but not from a lot of things. It's just plain risky to tap out for something like that. To your point about the cheap low-impact donations making the deck into a machine whose only function is to grease its self, low-impact is not no-impact. Even with just Tahngarth's Rage and Spectral Flight Zedruu flies in for 7 Commander damage which is nothing to scoff at.
Yes and yes. Three Dreams becomes much better if you decide to go the big aura route and/or throw a Control Magic or two in the mix, but if the best it can do is fetch Indestructibility, Faith's Fetters, and Blessing of the Nephilim (which is really not a terrible pile of cards) then you're usually better off casting Fact or Fiction in most spots.
Edit: Got to play a few games this weekend. Tragic Arrogance was spectacular both times I cast it while Bruna just rotted away in my hand. I imagine that she can be pretty good if you're trying to recover from a catastrophic Zedruu death, but in every other situation she's just Archangel. Tragic Arrogance is so good that I'm considering Equipoise and even Ward of Bones for more of that sort of effect.
I have been unhappy with Dust Corona lately. Even in tandem with Spectral Flight it just doesn't do enough. What to replace it with, though, has really vexed me. Not sure I even need it to become another pump aura since Coalition Relic and Chrome Mox each have some appeal as well.
Lastly, Tragic Arrogance has been so good and Bruna, Light of Alabaster so situational that I'm going to swap the latter for the former. It may be wrong to go without a backup plan, but hey, no guts no glory. Sadly Equipoise hasn't done what I'd hoped it would because it lets my opponents use their things on their own turns, but I'll give it a few more games to prove its self.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I'm going to give the mana rocks (Chrome Mox and Coalition Relic) a try because sometimes this deck could use some more curve-jumping power. I'm less hopeful for the Mox than for the Relic for reasons enumerated by others above, but I still want to give it a try cause I love me some modality. Relic may end up replacing Grim Monolith in the long run because they ramp in a similar way and the deck is so color-hungry, but I'm going to keep the Monolith a while longer because it's pretty good more often than not. Sunforger has been a slight underperformer so far because of its cost and clunkiness. Eight mana to grab the first instant is a pretty enormous investment, but the power level of the card is through the roof so I'm very hesitant to cut it. Here are the changes I'll test out next:
Out
In
One other thing is that both Compulsive Research and Thirst for Knowledge have been consistently fantastic. So much so that I kind of want a third 3 CMC card-advantage-generating card drawer. I don't think this deck wants wheel effects but I'm ready to hear arguments to the contrary. Artificer's Epiphany isn't good enough to run, is it?
Edit: It just occurred to me that Everflowing Chalice is another multi-mode card in that I can play it as a mana rock early or as a blank donation target when I don't need more rocks, making it comparable to Chrome Mox. Unlike the Mox, however, the Chalice will never tap for colored mana. On the other hand, it will also never cost another card to cast. Thoughts?
As for Artificer's Epiphany, do you feel you run enough artifacts to make it feel like a Compulsive Research or Thirst for Knowledge? If so, do it. If not, don't.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I agree with the soul of the deck, not to play gimmicky hard locks and unfun cards to win. The voltron aspect of the deck appeals to me.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Because Darksteel Relic can't tap for mana. To me the appeal of Chrome Mox and Everflowing Chalice is that they function as mana rocks when you draw them early but still do something useful when you draw them late and don't need any more rocks. Setting either up to tap for mana and then donating them away later is not a play I endorse. Nor is holding them in hand until you need another blank to gift. As I mentioned in the OP, and as you argue below, colorless mana isn't that great in this deck so Everflowing Chalice is probably not worth it.
I run enough artifacts that it should almost always be an instant speed Divination. It will cost three and net +1 card advantage, but it only ever looks at 2 cards (as opposed to the three each that Compulsive Research and Thirst for Knowledge see) so that's why I'm not sure about it. I'd rather just run Night's Whisper... Think anyone would notice?
Agreed. It sat on the sidelines for so long because I was working under the (false) assumption that the deck wants to skip 3 and go straight to 4 mana to drop Zedruu.
I wouldn't go that far. While it may seem strange for me to question this statement when I've said myself that the deck doesn't want Sol Ring, there are enough situations where having a colorless Dark Ritual is highly desirable that I still think Mana Vault is worth it. It enables things like an early sweeper, should you need one, that these colors don't really have other ways to do. It's also very strong when you're trying to set up Zedruu and an equipment or Indestructibility in one turn. Grim Monolith, on the other hand, probably has to go.
It's been very useful getting feedback from someone else who plays the deck. Thank you.
Thanks! Ain't it pretty?
I may be getting a chance to play a bunch of Commander soon so I'll test out some of the changes we've been talking about then.
Quarantine Field and Aligned Hedron Network look like they were custom-made for Zedruu. I'm super excited for both and will be testing them as soon as possible. Honestly, it's hard for me to imagine a world where either of those cards don't make the cut in this deck.
Edit: On a related note, my first instinct was to cut Mass Calcify for Quarantine Field because they're both curve-topping white removal spells. Now I'm starting to have second thoughts. For 5WW Mass Calcify kills all the non-white creatures but for 4WW Quarantine Field takes out any two things on the board. There's a pretty big difference between sweepers and spot removal but I've found, in other decks, that for example Violent Ultimatum can play the role of Day of Judgment in a lot of cases because often it's two or three threats that induce a sweeper in the first place.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!