After playing several times over the holiday i have the following findings from my latest tweaks:
Beast Within is epic. Very useful removal and easily fetched using blue instant tutor spells as well as competitively costed; and targets anything i like. 10/10 would recommend to all other green edh decks
Chord of Calling - much better than anticipated. Enabled comboing off more consistently and gave me a 'second out' when i had my infinite combo set up. I have permanently dropped Villainous Wealth for this card. Wealth is good for a game, Chord is winning a game.
Sounds like some good results. As a side note on Chord, you can sometimes really throw people off by overpaying for the x assuming you just have surplus mana. If what you are getting costs 5 mana for instance but you pay 6 or 7 as the x it makes it a lot harder to guess what you are up to. Keeping counter mana and or bluffing a counter is still good and worth doing but I have screwed people up in the past by overpaying and making them assume they knew what I was tutoring.
Its not always worth doing by any means but its another fun trick to the spell that you can catch people up on sometimes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
@Cranial Extraction
I like your decklist. It's a pretty strong control deck from what I see, but it seems slowed up by your lack of mana accelerants. I would definitely suggest Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Oracle of Mul Daya so that you can get those lands out of your hand faster and make Damia's ability more useful to you. Damia can be a consistent source of card advantage, but she requires you to play cards from your hand every turn cycle to really get mileage out of her.
@ LordRewind
Yup. Beast Within is freaking awesome. All-purpose utility removal in green at instant speed is like the perfect cheesecake: smooth, delicious, and eminently satisfying. Or at least for me it would be, if I played green again, haha.
I really like you list man. How has time twister been for you? That is a card ive long desired; but havent had the spare $$ laying around to pick it up. Have you considered picking up wasteland / strip mine? i am a huge fan of targeted land removal - combined with ben's recommendations of azusa / oracle and adding a crucible of worlds you can really be nasty.
thanks for following the thread btw! please keep posting and telling everyone what works for you and what youve dropped because it didnt work well.
YES. Havengul Lich + Prophet of Kruphix is the best tech out there! I'm so glad someone else runs it. I was running it in my Grixis Reanimator deck, but I've decided that Green offers better Reanimtor stuff than Red. So, I'm coming back to my roots. Oh BUG, how long I've been away from you. Maybe I'll finally be reconverted back to the best tri-color combo (yeah, that's right, haha).
@Cranial
I don't see Cabal Coffers. Why not? I'm assuming that you've at least considered it, and with the high amount of lands that you're running, Cabal Coffers becomes easier to manage. I would agree with your thing about Land-D. You should only have one deck that's renowned for doing that. Otherwise, people tend to just hate you out simply because they associate you with an uncool and unfun strategy for them. I still think you should add Oracle and Azusas nonetheless so you can still dump ots of land into play when you draw it.
Too bad. Cabal Coffers would do some really great things with Oona, helps you exile more creatures with Silence the Believers, helps you cast Decree of Pain faster, makes for a big, fat Blue Sun's Zenith as well as Villainous Wealth, helps you get to that kicked Rite of Replication kicked faster, and the Praetor's Counsel faster. But, if you've tested it and it doesn't perform for you, testing is testing for you. Keep BUG-ing on!
I dig it. I think with the amount of spells you have going on there that can use Coffers, I don't think you'll be disappointed. And if Coffers is as common as it is with my group, someone else will most likely have an Urborg to turn on your Coffers in the case that you don't get Urborg yourself.
What is the consensus on Taisigur, the new BUG khan? I think it's the control lover's dream because you're going to get cards back that will stop stupid broken plays. I've said this over and over, but Taisigur is so political it makes me sick to think about it.
I find Tasigur very interseting - i like delve on him, and i like that you can use that to force your opponents choices...BUT i dont think he brings anything to the table that i'd rather have than damia. 3+ cards per turn trump the hell outta 1 card from grave to hand of my opponents choice. so far i find the khans generals meh for BUG. I will add my thoughts to the OP
Hey comrade, how's it going here with Damia? Any reports of games or are you just super streamlined now?
Hey Man!
Damia has a ridiculous win rate in my group; shes pretty dominant and feeling super streamlined. I didnt much care for anything in the latest release, so shes sitting pretty atm. I normally break her out 1x per gaming session: shes my, i havent won all night, time to put the hurt down on some *****es. I will say, i lost a game the other night due to a wave of vitriol resolving taking out not only my precious dual lands but picking up both my exploration and my crucible of worlds. Still almost won the game, but that card and I do not see eye to eye. I have a heavy green meta in my group so its popping up a lot... Otherwise, i would say i win about 8/10 games i play with her, which is more than dominant enough for my meta currently.
I have been putting a lot of my effort into my mishra deck lately, which was recently awarded primer status here. just one more reason to see effing wave of vitriol though...
Wow. Wave of Vitriol is a brutal card. I've never even seen that card before, but wow that is so damn brutal. I thought Bane of Progress was bad...
What do you normally play against? I feel like smart opponents will be able to save removal or counterspells for your main draw engine (Damia). And once you've dumped your hand it becomes really easy to control you. Or at least that's been my experience when I play against my best friend, who has almost an identical list as you. It seems like all Damia lists have become really homogenous as of late, and it's kinda why I lost my love for BUG in the first place. And Damia's win percentage against me is less than 50%. Granted, I was the one who introduced him to BUG, with Damia, so I feel like I know the ins and outs just as well as him. With this being said, I feel like I can match him card for card in control to his ramp and watch him flounder for a while while I more consistently build my board. Do you find that's the case for people you play against as well?
Wow. Wave of Vitriol is a brutal card. I've never even seen that card before, but wow that is so damn brutal. I thought Bane of Progress was bad...
What do you normally play against? I feel like smart opponents will be able to save removal or counterspells for your main draw engine (Damia). And once you've dumped your hand it becomes really easy to control you. Or at least that's been my experience when I play against my best friend, who has almost an identical list as you. It seems like all Damia lists have become really homogenous as of late, and it's kinda why I lost my love for BUG in the first place. And Damia's win percentage against me is less than 50%. Granted, I was the one who introduced him to BUG, with Damia, so I feel like I know the ins and outs just as well as him. With this being said, I feel like I can match him card for card in control to his ramp and watch him flounder for a while while I more consistently build my board. Do you find that's the case for people you play against as well?
Just based on your descriptor, it sounds like your friend playing Damia is playing vastly too aggressively against your lists if you are easily dispatching of his main draw engines with little effort, and winning over half your games. I would recommend to him that he focuses on ramping into the engine cleanly without overextending his position, which is what it sounds like he is doing. Are you playing 1v1 matches or multiplayer? my list is not optimized for playing 1v1 games; and as such, i wouldnt expect it to do well against lists that are more tuned to have cost effective spot removal.
Any deck that relies heavily on its commander to be in play to advance its position will be weak to counterspells and removal that can keep the general out of play, or worse, tucked; and to play around that, i would advise your friend to amend their deck to be less reliant on damia if he is struggling with that problem.
I've won over half our games, both 1v1 and multiplayer. He gets bad draws and also has a very interesting mindset. I moved to California for two years to do missionary work for my church and he began playing against players that aren't as good as I am, no arrogance intended. So he got used to being able to aggressively combo out every game because these other players' decks weren't tuned to handle a super fast Damia (he average Damia on T3 consistently, T4 at the latest if he isn't hindered), and so he's solidified this mindset of super fast combo. I come back from Cali and recognize his weakness, and bury him under it. He's beginning to change how he plays Damia now, but it's taken almost 15 games spread out over months to cause him to change his mind. He won his first game with Damia in months last night as I was trying out a new Tasigur list and was completely f-ed to a T0 Leyline of the Void. If you want a brief summary, check out Avvina's Tasigur thread.
And I am also really familiar with his deck. That helps a lot, because I KNOW what he tutors for, almost every single game. It's kinda ridiculous how well I know his playstyle and his Damia deck, haha.
sorry - programmer by trade. layer 8 means user error; often used as a slang term, sorta like PEBCAK (problem exists betweek chair and keyboard). Was making a joke at your friends expense saying that you were having such success because he isn't making the correct changes in his own play / deck to beat you sometimes.
Ah. I understand with a greater understanding. I suppose I would agree with you there, but thankfully he's changed his playstyle. He's winning the games that he should now, so I think it's cleared up again. Damia will never be the monster it used to be, since I'm back, but it's now a respected deck instead of something that loses a lot.
Is there anything from the new sets that seems to intrigue you as possible additions to Damia? I really like Dragonlord Silumgar because he's cool looking, but perhaps not especially competitive. Maybe he is, but I can't say as of yet.
Overall nothing that i will be opening a deck slot for. Currently Damia is my big hitter deck (i play multiplayer, so my lack of early game defenses are mitigated by not being the primary opponent of my group). I am primarily focused on my Mishra deck / primer. I am also tinkering with a mono red budget build to accomodate a challenge issued to my by a friend.
cards worth noting from dragons of tarkir:
Anticipate - bad brainstorm is bad Blessed Reincarnation - Subpar removal in my opinion for our colors Clone Legion - unless i am playing in a combo heavy meta, i dont see why i want my opponents creatures with this deck. i'd rather spend 9 mana winning than copying Damnable Pact - has potential. With infinite mana its a kill card (damage or card draw); with high quantities of mana, lets us dig deep. I'd rather run stroke/exsanguinate before this though. Dragonlord's Prerogative - 4 cards is nice. Recurring Insight is simply better Encase in Ice - Decent spot removal for a creature without a useful ability. Song of the Dryads is better Hedonist's Trove - ruined by the fact that it hits 1 player instead of all opponents Icefall Regent - Potentially useful. Body that is useable with the power to shutdown frustrating opponents like ruric thar. Might have some value. Mirror Mockery - bad clone imo. if i cant attack with a clone i dont want it Mystic Meditation - i know its a cold day in hell when my blue deck would rather run harmonize as card draw Necromaster Dragon - if you are a mill reanimator build you should be playing Mimeo Profaner of the Dead - i'd probably prefer wash out, or any other board wipe really. not a fan Shaman of Forgotten Ways - this guy is one that has potential. definitely abuseable and considerable if your build is setting up for the wipe into biorhythm win - but will require set up. Sidisi, Undead Vizier - ETB Tutor. Not as good as RS Demon in my opinion, but a solid card to consider at a 5 drop, may lead to comboing off sooner, and givse another option for tutoring, as long as you have chumps to feed her Silumgar's Command - i read this as 3 options + bounce for 5 mana. i dont like how its abilities arent more useful when used as a pair. Cryptic Command 4lyfe.
Feel free to ask me about any cards from the set, these are just a few that i saw as a highlight reel to cover
Lookng at your list of useful add ins, i think they are all solid cards - but i have a few questions:
Why a reanimation package with Damia? doesnt seem to fit her strengths compared to other bug generals. Also, i do not think that survival of the fittest really fits this deck at all, considering how light the creature suite is, regardless of how amazing it can be in other builds.
i am sure youve noticed that my list overlaps significantly with your recommendations, and that i agree with the bulk of them.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Thanks - Wanted to keep my counter spell count up, since first goal is protect my combo, but song of the dryads is a great way to turn off any commander, especially with all the gods floating around lately.
As for the tuck rule, it is what it is. I dont believe in complaining about changes, but instead learning how to abuse them. Derevi can really break the new tuck rules with cards like proteus staff...as if she needed help being good.
I've briefly read over the entirety of this thread. Simply my opinion on this "Primer" deck list is, "Why don't you just win the game already?" (Labeled as a "Primer" by other members of the community)
I after reading your deck list, change log and briefly over the (what I believe to be) sub-par card choice ideas brought up in this thread, my conclusion is that the thread going about this deck almost entirely wrong. Remember, Damia is the 3 best colors in EDH (Green then Blue then Black) and you can do A LOT with those colors, but you're a combo deck, so just combo already.
The thing I didn't like most about your deck list was your "The 3 Stage Strategy of this Deck". I was thrown into a mix of emotions after reading that text and then reading the deck list.
Issues with your Phases: There should only be 2 Phases, Ramp then Win.
General: The deck is insanely slow and should focus on winning the game instead of pissing people off with Crucible and Strip Mine.
Phase One: You have essentially 0 "ramp" (I'm assuming you don't own a Mana Crypt like I do and that's fine) but instead of proactively progressing your advantage you sit there and draw cards slowly and "wait" until you hit your next phase.
Phase Two: This phase is literally pointless and makes you a huge target at a multiplayer table. (You only specify this deck as a "Competitive Deck" not a dueling deck in which case attrition wars are necessary)
Phase Three: This is what Phase 2 should be and this is what I mean when I say "Just win the game already"
Major things to consider: Completely removing your "Phase 2" because you could just win the game instead.
You do this by actually ramping during "Phase 1" using the best color in the format (Green if you were wondering) and here is why you should do this.
Removing your attrition war cards you get to put in real cards that actually provide an advantage, instead of being on par with the curve and everyone is "behind" you can just be ahead of everyone and ahead of the curve. It's the same thing but instead you become less of a target because you aren't pissing people off and you make every draw better the more you use green mana ramp. (The more you filter your deck of basic lands and thus fixing every mana issue ever, the better your card draws are for the duration of the game) Imagine playing a game with all your lands already in play, every draw would be a relevant card correct? (correct) Instead of possibly drawing 3 lands and 4 relevant cards with Damia, you are now drawing 7 relevant cards (assuming your hand is empty). This puts you ahead of everyone while not being a target because you look like you're just playing a game by yourself cause all you have is mana why would anyone attack you? (unless they know better)
Putting in a combo that kills an entire table at the same time.
I would recommend my combo: Temple Bell, Mind Over Matter and Blightsteel Colossus. Obviously you don't ever play Mind Over Matter until you have both cards. (Everyone draws their decks you pass the turn and one by one they die during their draw step with an empty deck) This also grants you access to Beacon of Tomorrows and thus infinite turns.
(You can also choose one of the two Legendary Eldrazi instead of Blightsteel but Blightsteel is better) Why is Blightsteel better? Because Blightsteel is your alternate win condition if say someone Krosan Grip your combo. You can kill players with Rite of Replication Blightsteel very obviously.
Additionally, I believe your infinite mana combo is incredibly slow and paints a huge target on your back whenever you play one of the pieces.
It seems like everyone wants to play (Not necessarily this threads main deck list but Damia players in general) Omniscience but don't know that Null Profusion or Recycle exist. (Along with actual mana ramp you play your entire deck and you should win at that point instead of just having an infinite mana combo in hand and not being able to use it) You don't need infinite mana when you can play everything for free.
Finally I believe you have a whole bunch of redundant or dead cards in your deck.
These cards would be by card type:
Creatures: Birds, Arbor Elf, Deathrite, Prophet, Phantasmal Image, Snapcaster, Dead Eye Nav (Because you aren't utilizing his ability and he's not an actual combo card just lots of cheese tutoring)
Artifacts: Monolith, Orrery, Darksteel Plate
Sorceries: GSZ (You don't play the correct creatures to warrant playing this card), Yawg Will (Praetor's Counsel is better), Tooth and Nail (If you're not going to play some sort of big creature combo)
Enchantments: Necro, Leyline, Asceticism
Instants: Counterspells that aren't Pact, FoW, Cryptic Command and Voidslime, Mystical Teachings, (Insidious Dreams is cheese but OK I see where it's going)
Planeswalkers: Everyone plays Jace for no reason than just because, (he is a HUGE target that gains no real value on the turn you play him) Liliana of the Veil does the same thing but she gets you card value on the turn she is played (I think she is an unnecessary card and doesn't fit the combo deck role)
Basic Lands: You need more of them because you should run more ramp.
Nonbasic Lands: I would remove all of the ones that don't fix mana and aren't the Towers, Riptide, Volrath's and Urborg.
Clarification on removal of counterspells: Beyond the ones I named you don't need any unless you are building the deck for dueling, in which case you need a lot of counter spells to protect yourself and prevent the enemy from advancing.
At this point you're probably like "OK guy, what does the 'proper' deck list look like?"
Additionally:
This isn't even the most aggressive combo decklist.
I don't have extra Dual Lands so I don't put them into the deck, but obviously they would fit over the Guildgates.
I don't even play this deck list because I personally find it more fun to be a "Less Aggressive" combo deck, so I play cards like:
3 Praetors
Bribery
Trygon Predator
Tooth and Nail
Progenitor Mimic
Chord of Calling
Decree of Pain
Sorin Markov
That being said I believe as this thread is looked at as a Standard Competitive Deck List it should be judged as such and the list could come with more variant cards, alternate builds or styles. If anyone has any questions on the deck list or card choices I'd be glad to answer them.
Well, that's quite a bit of text with some reasonable card explanations. Perhaps I can shed a little light on why LordRewind has his decklist the way it is, which I believe to be the optimized list.
And it all really comes down to one thing: CMC. The ramp spells that you suggest cutting are creatures but cost very little. Which means that he can dump his hand faster to abuse Damia's aggressive ability. That's ultimately what his deck is designed to do: dump as many low CMC ramp spells so that he can power out a faster Damia and accrue more card advantage earlier in the game when everyone is still sitting behind. I personally disagree with the addition of cards like Kodama's Reach and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss. They are certainly ramp pieces but they're too slow for how this deck is designed. But this is an important point: Lord Rewind and players who play Damia lists similar to his are looking to maximize mana to card output. How much mana can I get for the lowest CMC so that I can play more spells per turn. It is a totally different mindset in comparison to more casual games of EDH, I admit, and it might not be everyone's preferred play-style.
High CMC planeswalkers that don't win the game? Less effective in this list, although Karn, Liberated is a reasonable inclusion because of his spot removal ability. I don't think Jace, the Mind Sculptor belongs in competitive multi-player EDH, but that's player preference I believe.
Necropotence is straight awesome. Have you played it before? Many consider it to be one of the best cards in the entire EDH format, and I would tend to agree. Maybe Force of Will is better? I'm not sure.
I used to play Damia back before Lord Rewind's list became the optimized and efficient way to play her, but I didn't like her because she is not a control card nor does she encourage or support a control shell as well as other generals. She functions more like a combo piece, refilling your hand so that you can burn through your deck faster to find the combo piece you need so you can just win on the resolution of Tooth and Nail.
With all this being said, I think it's fair that there should be other lists posted and perhaps a card explanation section so that other Damia players can have a hub from which to generate ideas and generate decklists.
I would also suggest more mana ramp such as Mana Reflection and Boundless Realms as it will allow you to better utilize Damia's abilities by being able to cast all the cards you've drawn with Damia and thus being able to draw more![/quote]
Did this guys seriously say boundless realms?????? lmao
Sounds like some good results. As a side note on Chord, you can sometimes really throw people off by overpaying for the x assuming you just have surplus mana. If what you are getting costs 5 mana for instance but you pay 6 or 7 as the x it makes it a lot harder to guess what you are up to. Keeping counter mana and or bluffing a counter is still good and worth doing but I have screwed people up in the past by overpaying and making them assume they knew what I was tutoring.
Its not always worth doing by any means but its another fun trick to the spell that you can catch people up on sometimes.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I like your decklist. It's a pretty strong control deck from what I see, but it seems slowed up by your lack of mana accelerants. I would definitely suggest Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Oracle of Mul Daya so that you can get those lands out of your hand faster and make Damia's ability more useful to you. Damia can be a consistent source of card advantage, but she requires you to play cards from your hand every turn cycle to really get mileage out of her.
@ LordRewind
Yup. Beast Within is freaking awesome. All-purpose utility removal in green at instant speed is like the perfect cheesecake: smooth, delicious, and eminently satisfying. Or at least for me it would be, if I played green again, haha.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I really like you list man. How has time twister been for you? That is a card ive long desired; but havent had the spare $$ laying around to pick it up. Have you considered picking up wasteland / strip mine? i am a huge fan of targeted land removal - combined with ben's recommendations of azusa / oracle and adding a crucible of worlds you can really be nasty.
thanks for following the thread btw! please keep posting and telling everyone what works for you and what youve dropped because it didnt work well.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
@Cranial
I don't see Cabal Coffers. Why not? I'm assuming that you've at least considered it, and with the high amount of lands that you're running, Cabal Coffers becomes easier to manage. I would agree with your thing about Land-D. You should only have one deck that's renowned for doing that. Otherwise, people tend to just hate you out simply because they associate you with an uncool and unfun strategy for them. I still think you should add Oracle and Azusas nonetheless so you can still dump ots of land into play when you draw it.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
What is the consensus on Taisigur, the new BUG khan? I think it's the control lover's dream because you're going to get cards back that will stop stupid broken plays. I've said this over and over, but Taisigur is so political it makes me sick to think about it.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Damia has a ridiculous win rate in my group; shes pretty dominant and feeling super streamlined. I didnt much care for anything in the latest release, so shes sitting pretty atm. I normally break her out 1x per gaming session: shes my, i havent won all night, time to put the hurt down on some *****es. I will say, i lost a game the other night due to a wave of vitriol resolving taking out not only my precious dual lands but picking up both my exploration and my crucible of worlds. Still almost won the game, but that card and I do not see eye to eye. I have a heavy green meta in my group so its popping up a lot... Otherwise, i would say i win about 8/10 games i play with her, which is more than dominant enough for my meta currently.
I have been putting a lot of my effort into my mishra deck lately, which was recently awarded primer status here. just one more reason to see effing wave of vitriol though...
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
What do you normally play against? I feel like smart opponents will be able to save removal or counterspells for your main draw engine (Damia). And once you've dumped your hand it becomes really easy to control you. Or at least that's been my experience when I play against my best friend, who has almost an identical list as you. It seems like all Damia lists have become really homogenous as of late, and it's kinda why I lost my love for BUG in the first place. And Damia's win percentage against me is less than 50%. Granted, I was the one who introduced him to BUG, with Damia, so I feel like I know the ins and outs just as well as him. With this being said, I feel like I can match him card for card in control to his ramp and watch him flounder for a while while I more consistently build my board. Do you find that's the case for people you play against as well?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Just based on your descriptor, it sounds like your friend playing Damia is playing vastly too aggressively against your lists if you are easily dispatching of his main draw engines with little effort, and winning over half your games. I would recommend to him that he focuses on ramping into the engine cleanly without overextending his position, which is what it sounds like he is doing. Are you playing 1v1 matches or multiplayer? my list is not optimized for playing 1v1 games; and as such, i wouldnt expect it to do well against lists that are more tuned to have cost effective spot removal.
Any deck that relies heavily on its commander to be in play to advance its position will be weak to counterspells and removal that can keep the general out of play, or worse, tucked; and to play around that, i would advise your friend to amend their deck to be less reliant on damia if he is struggling with that problem.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
And I am also really familiar with his deck. That helps a lot, because I KNOW what he tutors for, almost every single game. It's kinda ridiculous how well I know his playstyle and his Damia deck, haha.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
sorry - programmer by trade. layer 8 means user error; often used as a slang term, sorta like PEBCAK (problem exists betweek chair and keyboard). Was making a joke at your friends expense saying that you were having such success because he isn't making the correct changes in his own play / deck to beat you sometimes.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Is there anything from the new sets that seems to intrigue you as possible additions to Damia? I really like Dragonlord Silumgar because he's cool looking, but perhaps not especially competitive. Maybe he is, but I can't say as of yet.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
cards worth noting from dragons of tarkir:
Anticipate - bad brainstorm is bad
Blessed Reincarnation - Subpar removal in my opinion for our colors
Clone Legion - unless i am playing in a combo heavy meta, i dont see why i want my opponents creatures with this deck. i'd rather spend 9 mana winning than copying
Damnable Pact - has potential. With infinite mana its a kill card (damage or card draw); with high quantities of mana, lets us dig deep. I'd rather run stroke/exsanguinate before this though.
Dragonlord's Prerogative - 4 cards is nice. Recurring Insight is simply better
Encase in Ice - Decent spot removal for a creature without a useful ability. Song of the Dryads is better
Hedonist's Trove - ruined by the fact that it hits 1 player instead of all opponents
Icefall Regent - Potentially useful. Body that is useable with the power to shutdown frustrating opponents like ruric thar. Might have some value.
Mirror Mockery - bad clone imo. if i cant attack with a clone i dont want it
Mystic Meditation - i know its a cold day in hell when my blue deck would rather run harmonize as card draw
Necromaster Dragon - if you are a mill reanimator build you should be playing Mimeo
Profaner of the Dead - i'd probably prefer wash out, or any other board wipe really. not a fan
Shaman of Forgotten Ways - this guy is one that has potential. definitely abuseable and considerable if your build is setting up for the wipe into biorhythm win - but will require set up.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - ETB Tutor. Not as good as RS Demon in my opinion, but a solid card to consider at a 5 drop, may lead to comboing off sooner, and givse another option for tutoring, as long as you have chumps to feed her
Silumgar's Command - i read this as 3 options + bounce for 5 mana. i dont like how its abilities arent more useful when used as a pair. Cryptic Command 4lyfe.
Feel free to ask me about any cards from the set, these are just a few that i saw as a highlight reel to cover
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Lookng at your list of useful add ins, i think they are all solid cards - but i have a few questions:
Why a reanimation package with Damia? doesnt seem to fit her strengths compared to other bug generals. Also, i do not think that survival of the fittest really fits this deck at all, considering how light the creature suite is, regardless of how amazing it can be in other builds.
i am sure youve noticed that my list overlaps significantly with your recommendations, and that i agree with the bulk of them.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
As for the tuck rule, it is what it is. I dont believe in complaining about changes, but instead learning how to abuse them. Derevi can really break the new tuck rules with cards like proteus staff...as if she needed help being good.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
I after reading your deck list, change log and briefly over the (what I believe to be) sub-par card choice ideas brought up in this thread, my conclusion is that the thread going about this deck almost entirely wrong. Remember, Damia is the 3 best colors in EDH (Green then Blue then Black) and you can do A LOT with those colors, but you're a combo deck, so just combo already.
The thing I didn't like most about your deck list was your "The 3 Stage Strategy of this Deck". I was thrown into a mix of emotions after reading that text and then reading the deck list.
Issues with your Phases: There should only be 2 Phases, Ramp then Win.
General: The deck is insanely slow and should focus on winning the game instead of pissing people off with Crucible and Strip Mine.
Phase One: You have essentially 0 "ramp" (I'm assuming you don't own a Mana Crypt like I do and that's fine) but instead of proactively progressing your advantage you sit there and draw cards slowly and "wait" until you hit your next phase.
Phase Two: This phase is literally pointless and makes you a huge target at a multiplayer table. (You only specify this deck as a "Competitive Deck" not a dueling deck in which case attrition wars are necessary)
Phase Three: This is what Phase 2 should be and this is what I mean when I say "Just win the game already"
Major things to consider:
Completely removing your "Phase 2" because you could just win the game instead.
You do this by actually ramping during "Phase 1" using the best color in the format (Green if you were wondering) and here is why you should do this.
Removing your attrition war cards you get to put in real cards that actually provide an advantage, instead of being on par with the curve and everyone is "behind" you can just be ahead of everyone and ahead of the curve. It's the same thing but instead you become less of a target because you aren't pissing people off and you make every draw better the more you use green mana ramp. (The more you filter your deck of basic lands and thus fixing every mana issue ever, the better your card draws are for the duration of the game) Imagine playing a game with all your lands already in play, every draw would be a relevant card correct? (correct) Instead of possibly drawing 3 lands and 4 relevant cards with Damia, you are now drawing 7 relevant cards (assuming your hand is empty). This puts you ahead of everyone while not being a target because you look like you're just playing a game by yourself cause all you have is mana why would anyone attack you? (unless they know better)
Putting in a combo that kills an entire table at the same time.
I would recommend my combo: Temple Bell, Mind Over Matter and Blightsteel Colossus. Obviously you don't ever play Mind Over Matter until you have both cards. (Everyone draws their decks you pass the turn and one by one they die during their draw step with an empty deck) This also grants you access to Beacon of Tomorrows and thus infinite turns.
(You can also choose one of the two Legendary Eldrazi instead of Blightsteel but Blightsteel is better) Why is Blightsteel better? Because Blightsteel is your alternate win condition if say someone Krosan Grip your combo. You can kill players with Rite of Replication Blightsteel very obviously.
Additionally, I believe your infinite mana combo is incredibly slow and paints a huge target on your back whenever you play one of the pieces.
It seems like everyone wants to play (Not necessarily this threads main deck list but Damia players in general) Omniscience but don't know that Null Profusion or Recycle exist. (Along with actual mana ramp you play your entire deck and you should win at that point instead of just having an infinite mana combo in hand and not being able to use it) You don't need infinite mana when you can play everything for free.
Finally I believe you have a whole bunch of redundant or dead cards in your deck.
These cards would be by card type:
Creatures: Birds, Arbor Elf, Deathrite, Prophet, Phantasmal Image, Snapcaster, Dead Eye Nav (Because you aren't utilizing his ability and he's not an actual combo card just lots of cheese tutoring)
Artifacts: Monolith, Orrery, Darksteel Plate
Sorceries: GSZ (You don't play the correct creatures to warrant playing this card), Yawg Will (Praetor's Counsel is better), Tooth and Nail (If you're not going to play some sort of big creature combo)
Enchantments: Necro, Leyline, Asceticism
Instants: Counterspells that aren't Pact, FoW, Cryptic Command and Voidslime, Mystical Teachings, (Insidious Dreams is cheese but OK I see where it's going)
Planeswalkers: Everyone plays Jace for no reason than just because, (he is a HUGE target that gains no real value on the turn you play him) Liliana of the Veil does the same thing but she gets you card value on the turn she is played (I think she is an unnecessary card and doesn't fit the combo deck role)
Basic Lands: You need more of them because you should run more ramp.
Nonbasic Lands: I would remove all of the ones that don't fix mana and aren't the Towers, Riptide, Volrath's and Urborg.
Clarification on removal of counterspells: Beyond the ones I named you don't need any unless you are building the deck for dueling, in which case you need a lot of counter spells to protect yourself and prevent the enemy from advancing.
At this point you're probably like "OK guy, what does the 'proper' deck list look like?"
1 Damia, Sage of Stone
Artifacts:
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Temple Bell
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Gilded Lotus
Creatures:
1 Trinket Mage
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Eternal Witness
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sakashima the Imposter
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Mulldrifter
1 Acidic Slime
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Blightsteel Colossus
Enchantments:
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Rhystic Study
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Treachery
1 Null Profusion
1 Recycle
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Omniscience
Instants:
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Impulse
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Sultai Charm
1 Voidslime
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Harrow
1 Krosan Grip
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Cryptic Command
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Force of Will
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Liliana Vess
1 Karn Liberated
Sorcery:
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Rampant Growth
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Compulsive Research
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Recross the Paths
1 Cultivate
1 Harmonize
1 Damnation
1 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Rite of Replication
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Acquire
1 Time Warp
1 Recurring Insight
1 Beacon of Tomorrows
1 Praetor's Counsel
Lands:
4 Forest
4 Island
4 Swamp
1 Opulent Palace
1 Command Tower
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Urbog, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tree of Tales
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Golgari Guild Gate
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Woodland Cemetary
1 Twilight Mire
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Simic Guildgate
1 Flooded Grove
1 Breeding Pool
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Watery Grave
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Downed Catacomb
Additionally:
This isn't even the most aggressive combo decklist.
I don't have extra Dual Lands so I don't put them into the deck, but obviously they would fit over the Guildgates.
I don't even play this deck list because I personally find it more fun to be a "Less Aggressive" combo deck, so I play cards like:
3 Praetors
Bribery
Trygon Predator
Tooth and Nail
Progenitor Mimic
Chord of Calling
Decree of Pain
Sorin Markov
That being said I believe as this thread is looked at as a Standard Competitive Deck List it should be judged as such and the list could come with more variant cards, alternate builds or styles. If anyone has any questions on the deck list or card choices I'd be glad to answer them.
And it all really comes down to one thing: CMC. The ramp spells that you suggest cutting are creatures but cost very little. Which means that he can dump his hand faster to abuse Damia's aggressive ability. That's ultimately what his deck is designed to do: dump as many low CMC ramp spells so that he can power out a faster Damia and accrue more card advantage earlier in the game when everyone is still sitting behind. I personally disagree with the addition of cards like Kodama's Reach and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss. They are certainly ramp pieces but they're too slow for how this deck is designed. But this is an important point: Lord Rewind and players who play Damia lists similar to his are looking to maximize mana to card output. How much mana can I get for the lowest CMC so that I can play more spells per turn. It is a totally different mindset in comparison to more casual games of EDH, I admit, and it might not be everyone's preferred play-style.
High CMC planeswalkers that don't win the game? Less effective in this list, although Karn, Liberated is a reasonable inclusion because of his spot removal ability. I don't think Jace, the Mind Sculptor belongs in competitive multi-player EDH, but that's player preference I believe.
Necropotence is straight awesome. Have you played it before? Many consider it to be one of the best cards in the entire EDH format, and I would tend to agree. Maybe Force of Will is better? I'm not sure.
I used to play Damia back before Lord Rewind's list became the optimized and efficient way to play her, but I didn't like her because she is not a control card nor does she encourage or support a control shell as well as other generals. She functions more like a combo piece, refilling your hand so that you can burn through your deck faster to find the combo piece you need so you can just win on the resolution of Tooth and Nail.
With all this being said, I think it's fair that there should be other lists posted and perhaps a card explanation section so that other Damia players can have a hub from which to generate ideas and generate decklists.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Did this guys seriously say boundless realms?????? lmao
Godo, Bandit Warlord EDH
Angus Mackenzie Control/Beat
Reanimator Legacy
Burn Legacy
Abzan aggro Standard