Vorosh is the worst of the 5 in my opinion. He can ramp into himself and then voltron effectively in a 1v1 match, using counter magic to support himself; however, in a multiplayer game you simply eliminate one opponent at best before the table as a whole deals with you. At his best, he can ramp up and win duels with brutal efficiency. At his worst, he stalls out vs multiple opponents and suffers greatly from tucks.
Sidisi I find lack luster. I don't like self mill strategies as a whole, and I find her token generation fairly useless. I have not played her nor played against her yet, and I suspect that is because while there arent many BUG commanders available, there are simply more fun options than Sidisi.
Tasigur I find interesting. I like that he has delve, which can help a ton in throwing him out early and fighting commander tax. I like that he recurs cards from your grave to your hand. What i DO NOT like is that he gives your opponent choice over what you get back from your grave. I think if I wanted to make a BUG deck, I wouldnt use him. That said, he has the surprising flexibility that he can be used in a BU or BG deck and doesnt require a third color to get full functionality. Because of that, i find him very flexible as a commander, with a potentially amazing ability. Overall, i'd say he's got great casual political value, but from a competitive stand point, giving your opponent control over what card goes into your hand is rarely going to be worth it.
Mimeoplasm is fantastic, however, I am not playing a deck with valuable creatures in their own regard. Mimeoplasm wants to reanimate strong creatures combined with valuable abilities; preferably in such a way that he can go voltron for the win or hold off a board. He also serves as a way to recur combo pieces that enable you to win, or target your opponents combo pieces in the grave as spot removal. The problem is that he isnt a combo engine in himself; since he only gets the abilities of 1 of the creatures he reanimates, and he is heavily reliant on the grave being valuable. At his best, he can become a powerful evasive voltron who can also reanimate scary abilities from the grave or serve as spot grave removal. At his worst, he cannot be played due to Rest in Peace effects.
Damia is expensive, and takes away your ability to naturally draw on your turn. However, she unlocks your ability to throw away your hand and then start your next turn with a full 7, generating consecrated sphinx levels of card draw without all the noticable advantage. Having a 4/4 body makes her slightly difficult to remove, and having death touch is a surprisingly efficient way to stave off large threats. She is dependent on ramp, and requires protection once in play. She cannot voltron well, unless the board state is completely controlled, at which point her beating someone to death is moot. At her best, shes a card advantage monster with a decent sized body and death touch. At her worst, she gets removed after you dump your hand, and is back in the command zone, more costly than before; however your ability to draw cards is restored. In my opinion, she is the best BUG commander for my play style - i love to draw cards and play counter spells.
Why play this Damia deck?
You will enjoy my Damia build if:
You like drawing cards
You don't mind infinite loops
You arent afraid to become the archenemy
You like countermagic and control
You don't mind attacking lands or hands
You want to win.
You will NOT enjoy my Damia build if:
You want to play voltron
You enjoy big creatures
You enjoy turning creatures sideways into the redzone
Phase 1: Ramp
Focus on early game explosion of ramp. Dont keep a hand with less than 3 lands, 4 is ideal. The objective of this stage of the game is to stick a card advantage engine on the board. Necropotence, Consecrated Sphinx, and of course Damia, Sage of Stone are the most ideal. If you are in this phase of the game strategy, try not to attack or draw hate. This is our political time. Only time you should attack is in 1v1 and the board is open for some poke damage. Once you have a card advantage engine on the board and mana built up, transition into phase 2.
Phase 2: Attrition Control
You now are generating card advantage, start leveraging it. Begin playing spot land removal on key lands such as Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle. Begin playing cards like Liliana of the Veil for symetrical discard (which doesnt hurt us thanks to our card advantage engine). The objective of this phase is to start wearing down opponents. We want to end the game with a combo bang, but until we get there, we want to start taking away their ability to stop us. Ideally you will stay in this phase until we have an infinite combo and a way to get Blue Sun's Zenith. If you lose your card advantage engine, stop this phase, and go back to ramping. You NEED to keep generating cards to be able to keep the pressure up and be able to hold off the table.
Phase 3: Killing Blow
Ideally, your opponent has a wounded hand size compared to our max hand, and their land base has been weakened; especially if we were able to get a Crucible of Worlds with a Strip Mine or Wasteland down. At this point, we generate infinite mana, preferably with blue at our access, and we make them draw out, with counter spells in hand to back it up. If you're in a multiplayer game, how well you executed your phase 2 will determine how well your opponents are able to rally against you as an archenemy to stop you.
As you are running a ton of cards that allow you to play extra lands, I would suggest increasing your land count. This ensures that you will have less chance of missing land drops and thus being able to consistently cast Damia early on. Sunder works well with these cards as you will recover faster than your opponents and using it after a overloaded Cyclonic Rift is just brutal.
Terastodon and Woodfall Primus are great cards in general for any green deck but they also supplement that minor land destruction theme you have going on. If you want to expand on that theme I would also suggest Frost Titan and Beast Within as they can lockdown or destroy any pesky permanents bothering you. Rite of Replication and Progenitor Mimic work well with these cards but are also fantastic cards in their own right.
I would also suggest more mana ramp such as Mana Reflection and Boundless Realms as it will allow you to better utilize Damia's abilities by being able to cast all the cards you've drawn with Damia and thus being able to draw more!
Mindslicer is in the deck purely as a 'dont kick the bees nest' sort of card. A deterrent.
As for other discard effects, I want to leverage slower effects that recur rather than big bursty ones. Playing myojin of night's reach is a huge bomb of a play, but playing unnerve just paints a target on me for pissing off everyone at once. Might consider throwing in myojin as an indestructible critter with a great effect. Only hesitation comes from his mana cost.
The discard in this deck is designed to wear down opponents, not attack them. I want my opponents to suffer through it, thinking its not a big deal, but by the time the 2rd person discards, its already to my advantage. Once damia is on the board, i get to leave my upkeep with 7 cards in hand, if they have to discard 1 or 2 during upkeep, then they leave with 5 at most.
The countermagic however, isnt going anywhere. First and foremost, this is not a discard deck, its a combo deck. These counters are in place to confirm that the combo goes off and sticks. I do not want to play my game winning move and lose it all. I dont want my opponents to tutor for a wipe, and then ruin my board. Counter magic is non negotiable.
As you are running a ton of cards that allow you to play extra lands, I would suggest increasing your land count. This ensures that you will have less chance of missing land drops and thus being able to consistently cast Damia early on. Sunder works well with these cards as you will recover faster than your opponents and using it after a overloaded Cyclonic Rift is just brutal.
those effects arent for ramp, they are for abusing sac land effects with crucible. The fact they enable ramp is merely a bonus.
Terastodon and Woodfall Primus are great cards in general for any green deck but they also supplement that minor land destruction theme you have going on. If you want to expand on that theme I would also suggest Frost Titan and Beast Within as they can lockdown or destroy any pesky permanents bothering you. Rite of Replication and Progenitor Mimic work well with these cards but are also fantastic cards in their own right.
Overly expensive cards that dont forward my goal of winning the game. They are great targets for deadeye navigator, so i will test them; but i dont want to spend 8 mana for a creature plus a little destruction. All that said, i like progenitor mimic a lot. That one will go onto my playtest list. Thanks for taht suggestion.
I would also suggest more mana ramp such as Mana Reflection and Boundless Realms as it will allow you to better utilize Damia's abilities by being able to cast all the cards you've drawn with Damia and thus being able to draw more!
I dont have any desire for basic land searching; i prefer to search for 'forest' cards, etc. Mana reflection would be useful in the event that i needed spare mana, but kruphix and his prophet do a great job at that. I dont know what i'd replace with reflection.
Sorry I haven't got around to checking out your EDH list, Rewind. As the one poster said, you need mana reflection. On top of just being good, it's another infinite mana enabler with either grim monolith or Palinchron.
Memory Lapse or Arcane Denial should likely be Mindbreak Trap. Only having Venser as an answer to Boseiju and other similar effects is problematic, and a free counterspell for the end of counterspell wars is always nice. Time Stop might also be considered, though it's on the expensive side so perhaps not for your list.
Demonic Collusion is an expensive tutor, but it's repeatable, dumps unnecessary cards in the grave to be replaced by Damia, and is ultimately not a horrible idea. 5 mana is a lot though so I can understand if you'd rather not.
I hadn't realized mana reflection was any permanent or really stopped to think about the infinite combo boosting that it gives; definitely a useful card for this deck. I also like the idea of throwing in mindbreak trap; especially since a friend in my edh circles runs prossh with bitter ordeal. I will be looking to add those.
I would probably sooner run time stretch as another win condition than time stop, but it is a card worth considering if i face more decks with 'cannot be countered' effects.
None beyond its easier to play than leyline if for some crazy reason im 4 turns in and dont have 2 blue mana sources. I think having both would be ideal, though I am not sure what to cut for it.
oh absolutely, but i'd be replacing it with mana reflection - which makes it go infinite with palinchron AND grim monolith and also gives me ramp when my combo isnt on the board. I havent picked up a copy, but thats what i am looking at. the problem with power artifact is that it ONLY pairs with monolith, and is otherwise a dead draw if i dont have a tutor for monolith.
probably wont throw in basalt monolith since its doesnt give me positive gain on dropping it turn 3, since its 3 for 3. Grim gives me a 1 turn ramp. That said, i imagine if i was going for ideal combo deck, i'd focus more on ways to abuse palinchron and less on monoliths in general, since they can be removed easier than palinchron can be.
After viewing this thread, I am considering running crucible of worlds and strip mine. I don't think I will be able to get my hands on a wasteland any time soon however xo
Palinchron can be removed quite easily and the monoliths are faster but to each their own
I disagree. If i have mana at my access, i can always bounce palinchron should i lack a counterspell or anything else to prevent him from being targetted. the problem with the monoliths is that once they are on the board, a krosan grip eliminates them hard. It is probably the most played split second spell in my circles. Even if they use a 'slower' instant to remove them, unless i have a counter, they are gone. that said, they ARE much faster to combo, which is why i run grim monolith currently. too powerful not to include in this list.
@Anointed1
I like your deck list. How does it do in multiplayer? in my experience, more counter spell oriented builds tend to be lack luster in multiplayer, considering the lack of overall impact vs how much you piss off everyone. i prefer to use counter magic to protect my investments, not control my opponents. (granted, the objective of my build WILL piss them off, hopefully after its too late to stop me.
I highly recommend crucible + strip mine. ive only pulled it once so far, but it was a back breaker combined with several land boost effects
My list is decent. I lose normally due to becoming the archenemy, but losing that way is almost flattering. I have found Kruphix, god of horizons and time stop to be a tad underwhelming, so they may be cut soon. The god encourages me to wait to make moves by saving mana and timestop is just a really cool counterspell that costs 6. I'm sure there are more effective spells out there
i agree with Kruphix being lack luster; his max hand size ability has yet to come into play for me, and time stop would only be useful in a meta where storm spells are prevalent, because time stretch is a superior way to go off infinite turns. i do enjoy being the arch enemy at the table, as it makes me feel like ive succeeded in getting the other players to deal with me or lose.
i think long term i will cut Kruphix for Time Stretch to give another infinite engine
Your deck-list seems very similar to mine, save for the fact that you have a lot more money in yours than I do. I didn't realize that Jace, the mind sculptor wasn't banned anymore, also i guess sylvan Primordial is banned now. I decided against Oracle of Mul daya for the shear reason that based on the nature of this deck to attract hate already, I really don't want people to know whats coming. Kruphix, god of horizons, I feel like wouldn't fit to well, Utopia Sprawl, is just card disadvantage with land removal, but maybe the quickness makes up for it. Mindbreak trap seems to over-costed/conditional. I'd say your probably more experienced than I am but i'd like to hear how those cards are working for you, but more importantly check out my deck and let me know what you think i could do better with out adding a ***** ton of money, because i am definitely not about to get perfect duals and cracks or a jace.
first and foremost, i didnt buy the big money cards for this deck; i normally keep my edh decks budget, but i raelly wanted to cut loose with this one and took 6 or so cards outta my legacy BUG deck to amp this one up.
Jace is pretty solid in the deck, though normally doesnt last a turn rotation, he tends to get ganged up on.
Oracle of Mul daya has yet to earn me much hate.
Kruphix feels really dead in my hand. hes on the top of my chopping block. i dont get fat hands with this deck, normally around 7 cards.
Utopia sprawl im torn on - its a nice turn 1 ramp, but overall i could take it or leave it, looking for a good alternative.
Mindbreak trap is in the deck purely for dealing with storm combo decks (a friend plays prossh with Bitter Ordeal) and un-counterable spells.
bottomless pit and necrogen mists, while good at wearing opponents down, failed to seal the deal well enough, and if played early just draw hate. they dont promote winning, so i removed them.
Honestly it's incredible to me that you play Blue Sun's Zenith, the card seems really weak. There are any number of ways to win with infinite mana - setting yourself up to play infinite turns is a good one - and in a Damia deck the card draw is largely irrelevant.
Lion's Eye Diamond is insane in Damia. With one other CMC one or two ramp spell, you can easily t3 damia and draw seven cards in your next upkeep.
Chord of calling is fire. It's really feel-good to end of turn Chord for E Wit, get back chord, on your turn chord for deadeye, flicker e wit, chord for palinchron or some other variation of this line.
Why play this Damia deck?
How Damia Wins
The 3 stage strategy of this deck
The Deck:
1 Damia, Sage of Stone
-=Creatures=-
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Arbor Elf
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Palinchron
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Kruphix, God of Horizons
-=Artifacts=-
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Lightning Greaves
-=Sorceries=-
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Nature's Lore
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Warp
1 Burgeoning
1 Exploration
1 Necropotence
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Asceticism
1 Rhystic Study
1 Mana Reflection
1 Song of the Dryads
-=Instants=-
1 Arcane Denial
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Beast Within
1 Chord of Calling
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Delay
1 Force of Will
1 Krosan Grip
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Pact of Negation
1 Remand
1 Voidslime
1 Insidious Dreams
1 Forbid
1 Vampiric Tutor
-=Planeswalkers=-
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
-=Basic Lands=-
3 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Snow-Covered Island
3 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Homeward Path
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolaria West
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Breeding Pool
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
1 Bayou
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Added:
Song of the Dryads
Force of Will
Dropped:
Hinder
Spell Crumple
Have no room for variants of Faerie Trickery or Dissipate
Added:
Chord of Calling
Dropped:
Villainous Wealth
Added:
Beast Within
Dropped:
Kodama's Reach
Added:
Arcane Denial
Kodama's Reach
Krosan Grip
Time Warp
Dropped
Life from the Loam
Memory Lapse
Utopia Sprawl
Time Stretch
Added
Time Stretch
Villainous Wealth
Dropped
Bottomless Pit
Necrogen Mists
Added
Mana Reflection
Dropped
Power Artifact
Added
Leyline of Anticipation
Dropped
Oppression
Added
Dropped
Kodama's Reach -> Beast Within or song of the dryads
drop Liliana of the Veil for better permanent removal
Experiment with Chord of Calling (chord into eternal witness into deadeye into infinite fetch, with infinite mana of course).
invest in lion's eye diamond
As you are running a ton of cards that allow you to play extra lands, I would suggest increasing your land count. This ensures that you will have less chance of missing land drops and thus being able to consistently cast Damia early on. Sunder works well with these cards as you will recover faster than your opponents and using it after a overloaded Cyclonic Rift is just brutal.
Terastodon and Woodfall Primus are great cards in general for any green deck but they also supplement that minor land destruction theme you have going on. If you want to expand on that theme I would also suggest Frost Titan and Beast Within as they can lockdown or destroy any pesky permanents bothering you. Rite of Replication and Progenitor Mimic work well with these cards but are also fantastic cards in their own right.
I would also suggest more mana ramp such as Mana Reflection and Boundless Realms as it will allow you to better utilize Damia's abilities by being able to cast all the cards you've drawn with Damia and thus being able to draw more!
As for other discard effects, I want to leverage slower effects that recur rather than big bursty ones. Playing myojin of night's reach is a huge bomb of a play, but playing unnerve just paints a target on me for pissing off everyone at once. Might consider throwing in myojin as an indestructible critter with a great effect. Only hesitation comes from his mana cost.
The discard in this deck is designed to wear down opponents, not attack them. I want my opponents to suffer through it, thinking its not a big deal, but by the time the 2rd person discards, its already to my advantage. Once damia is on the board, i get to leave my upkeep with 7 cards in hand, if they have to discard 1 or 2 during upkeep, then they leave with 5 at most.
The countermagic however, isnt going anywhere. First and foremost, this is not a discard deck, its a combo deck. These counters are in place to confirm that the combo goes off and sticks. I do not want to play my game winning move and lose it all. I dont want my opponents to tutor for a wipe, and then ruin my board. Counter magic is non negotiable.
those effects arent for ramp, they are for abusing sac land effects with crucible. The fact they enable ramp is merely a bonus.
Overly expensive cards that dont forward my goal of winning the game. They are great targets for deadeye navigator, so i will test them; but i dont want to spend 8 mana for a creature plus a little destruction. All that said, i like progenitor mimic a lot. That one will go onto my playtest list. Thanks for taht suggestion.
I dont have any desire for basic land searching; i prefer to search for 'forest' cards, etc. Mana reflection would be useful in the event that i needed spare mana, but kruphix and his prophet do a great job at that. I dont know what i'd replace with reflection.
I hadn't realized mana reflection was any permanent or really stopped to think about the infinite combo boosting that it gives; definitely a useful card for this deck. I also like the idea of throwing in mindbreak trap; especially since a friend in my edh circles runs prossh with bitter ordeal. I will be looking to add those.
I would probably sooner run time stretch as another win condition than time stop, but it is a card worth considering if i face more decks with 'cannot be countered' effects.
Talk about good weekend.
Also added burgeoning and mindbreak trap to the deck.
Cut mindslicer as per recommendation
i am currently looking at cutting power artifact and oppression for mana reflection and leyline of anticipation
39 LANDS
7 forest
4 island
2 swamp
1 bayou
1 underground sea
1 tropical island
1 overgrown tomb
1 watery grave
1 breeding pool
1 twilight mire
1 sunken ruins
1 flooded grove
1 woodland cemetery
1 drowned catacomb
1 hinterland harbor
1 verdant catacombs
1 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
1 wooded foothills
1 marsh flats
1 windswept heath
1 scalding tarn
1 bloodstained mire
1 flooded strand
1 command tower
1 temple of the false god
1 mystifying maze
1 grim backwoods
1 alchemist's refuge
12 CREATURES
1 deathrite shaman
2 sakura-tribe elder
2 lotus cobra
3 eternal witness
3 yavimaya elder
4 mystic snake
5 kruphix, god or horizons
5 prophet of kruphix
5 genesis
6 consecrated sphinx
7 sheoldred, whispering one
7 ENCHANTMENTS
2 sylvan library
3 phyrexian arena
3 pernicious deed
3 rhystic study
4 leyline of anticipation
4 lethal vapors
4 tainted aether
3 ARTIFACTS
1 sol ring
1 sensei's divining top
3 oblivion stone
5 PLANESWALKERS
3 liliana of the veil
4 jace, the mind sculptor
4 kiora, the crashing wave
5 liliana vess
5 vraska the unseen
13 SORCERIES
2 nature's lore
2 three visits
2 farseek
2 explore
2 demonic tutor
3 cultivate
3 kodama's reach
3 maelstrom pulse
3 praetor's grasp
4 damnation
5 bribery
5 time warp
8 praetor's counsel
0 pact of negation
1 reclaim
1 brainstorm
1 vampiric tutor
1 wordly tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 stifle
2 abrupt decay
2 counterspell
2 trickbind
2 cyclonic rift
3 hero's downfall
3 putrefy
3 hinder
3 beast within
3 forbid
3 voidslime
4 cryptic command
4 fact or fiction
6 time stop
After viewing this thread, I am considering running crucible of worlds and strip mine. I don't think I will be able to get my hands on a wasteland any time soon however xo
@Anointed1
I like your deck list. How does it do in multiplayer? in my experience, more counter spell oriented builds tend to be lack luster in multiplayer, considering the lack of overall impact vs how much you piss off everyone. i prefer to use counter magic to protect my investments, not control my opponents. (granted, the objective of my build WILL piss them off, hopefully after its too late to stop me.
I highly recommend crucible + strip mine. ive only pulled it once so far, but it was a back breaker combined with several land boost effects
i think long term i will cut Kruphix for Time Stretch to give another infinite engine
picked up Leyline of Anticipation
self bump - looking for any and all advice from more experienced damia players
Damia ETB Recursion
first and foremost, i didnt buy the big money cards for this deck; i normally keep my edh decks budget, but i raelly wanted to cut loose with this one and took 6 or so cards outta my legacy BUG deck to amp this one up.
Jace is pretty solid in the deck, though normally doesnt last a turn rotation, he tends to get ganged up on.
Oracle of Mul daya has yet to earn me much hate.
Kruphix feels really dead in my hand. hes on the top of my chopping block. i dont get fat hands with this deck, normally around 7 cards.
Utopia sprawl im torn on - its a nice turn 1 ramp, but overall i could take it or leave it, looking for a good alternative.
Mindbreak trap is in the deck purely for dealing with storm combo decks (a friend plays prossh with Bitter Ordeal) and un-counterable spells.
bottomless pit and necrogen mists, while good at wearing opponents down, failed to seal the deal well enough, and if played early just draw hate. they dont promote winning, so i removed them.
Lion's Eye Diamond is insane in Damia. With one other CMC one or two ramp spell, you can easily t3 damia and draw seven cards in your next upkeep.
Chord of calling is fire. It's really feel-good to end of turn Chord for E Wit, get back chord, on your turn chord for deadeye, flicker e wit, chord for palinchron or some other variation of this line.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
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