Excellent list, MuzzleMuffin. I think we take different approaches and I'm curious to know how this list fares for you. I have a few specific questions regarding card choices that you run in your list that I no longer do:
Power Artifact - with Prophet being banned, Bribery gets a lot worse in my opinion. I've often toyed with the idea of adding Power Artifact to the deck since it has natural synergy with Memnarch in addition to creating infinite colorless mana with Basalt Monolith and Grim Monolith. But I don't play Mycosynth Lattice like you do. How frequently do you find yourself going for the infinite colorless?
Sunder - I am extremely interested in this inclusion. I personally think this card is a little untenable for a control-combo deck, but it seems that you focus more on the combos that Memnarch can run whereas my list is definitely more on the control elements. Why Sunder?
Mindslaver - this piece seems redundant to me with the number of infinite mana combos that you're running. Although flavorful! I had a foily one once upon a time but now my brother runs it in his Daretti artifact deck.
Blightsteel Colossus - swinging with this dude kills players dead. How are you getting this bad boy into play? Infinite mana has better uses than this guy, I argue.
I feel like you're weak in the card draw area, however. I think I count 7 total pieces of draw and/or card manipulation. Do you find yourself running out of gas too soon? I think I'm playing a total of 10-11 ways to get card advantage and I think that this allows for a better mid and late game. It seems a well-timed counterspell or removal spell would derail your game plan pretty severely.
All in all, I think this is a great combo list. I think, with your permission, I would like to include it in the OP to supplement my once-upon-a-time combo list that I was playing. Your list is definitely a close approximation to what I was playing and it might give readers better insight into how to build the combo focused list that Memnarch is usually known for, since I don't remember all the cards that I was playing in that list from 6 years ago.
Has anyone else played with Invoke Prejudice? It seems to be a powerful inclusion but, ironically, seems to be too slow for a good group. It would also require a change in the my creature base as most of my opponents' creatures are blue and Prejudice would do absolutely nothing if I have a Snapcaster Mage or Patron Wizard down. On the other side though, if you don't have any creatures in play, there will be NO creatures in play for as long as the enchantment is in play. I think if I were playing a less dense creature build that it would find a spot but I don't see one.
Also, Overwhelming Denial seems really good. It wins counter wars and is generally an uncounterable counterspell when your on your opponent's turn, which isn't bad. The only prohibition is the CMC without the Surge cost. Does it find an inclusion in the deck? The other card that is worth noting, Sphinx of the Final Word, is trying to find a spot in my list as well. I have a lot of cards that are vying for Bribery's slot and I want to gather opinions on which might be the best inclusion.
I did a lot of work to the OP Primer post, expanding greatly on the Philosophy section, adding more cool pictures to make the Primer more visually appealing, and adding the following cards to the Cards Considered section:
Power Artifact
Pili-Pala
Muddle the Mixture
Basalt Monolith
Invoke Prejudice
Darksteel Forge
Mycosynth Lattice
Overwhelming Denial
EDIT: I also added links for several alternate mono-Blue EDH generals that I think are super strong, notably Venser, Azami, and Teferi.
Yeah sure, bear. Do what you please with my list it would be sweet to see it in the primer.
I find myself going for infinite colorless quite a bit. The two best things to have while having infinite colorless is the Lattice or Staff of Domination
For Sunder, I use it mainly as a card that ensures me to combo. If this resolves at one of my opponents end steps, I am normally ahead on mana with the mana rocks at this point in time. I am also usually in a place where memnarch is on the table and I start picking off lands 1 at a time as they enter the battlefield. If I have the mana available from my mana rocks, maybe go for an infinite combo or 2. I was mainly inspired by my friends Armageddon. I could also completely screw over 1 opponent and almost take them out of the game. For a combo list, I like it, but I could see it being cut.
My list is a complete combo fest, Power Artifact has been sweet. Rarely do I ever play it on Memnarch, but I guess it could be nifty if I were in a bind. Its always used for the infinite mana combos with the Monoliths.
I am lacking in card draw, if I were to focus on the compeitive route I would throw things like Impulse, Brainstorm, etc. I feel like this lists mainly runs out of gas when I cant mana ramp with the rocks. Just having Memnarch as himself is a great resource. Although I should include some more card draw being able to cast the Memdaddy feels like a wacky sort of card advantage. I tend to target other people rocks and their lands. I used to run a Mystic Remora, I actually got the idea from you in this primer. I am looking to throw it back in. Remora put in so much work.
I have some unorthodox inclusions and mainly because of sentimental reasons. Mindslaver is such a fun card, I would never include it in a competitive list, but mindslavering my friends is just too hard to resist. Also able to indefinitely control one person when at 13 mana is fun...albeit not totally necessary (depending on the board i will be locked out too....kinda). I also used to play Mono U Tron in modern...its more of a nod to that list than anything.
I wanted at least 1 extremely huge threat. Blightsteel draws attention and forces my opponents to answer him. With infinite mana its a great feeling casting him. This deck tries to go for infinite mana as soon as possible. But I also naturally get to 12+ mana with rocks alone. He was great with the partial mulligan rule, I always mulled him back to the deck. He gets a little worse now with that rule I feel. Any other normal Blue deck I feel like would not want to run him. Most times I have cast him its been on the back of the mana rocks.
I really want to play with Invoke Prejudice. I like playing less creatures and I feel like this would be extremely strong in the early game. Alas, I am not sure how competitive it would be since eventually people will pay for their creatures. But you could argue this enables us to go for some combos etc. I think its worth testing. I also agree with you on Bribery. I tend to search up other peoples Eldrazi/Blightsteel if they didnt have a Prophet. I could see this being cut.
My group is a combination between spikey and big fun time. But yeah, I plan on checking into this primer a lot. Keep up the great work. I like seeing your competitive tournament reports.
*****EDITED*****: Left part of my list out on accident.
Yeah sure, bear. Do what you please with my list it would be sweet to see it in the primer.
I find myself going for infinite colorless quite a bit. The two best things to have while having infinite colorless is the Lattice or Staff of Domination
For Sunder, I use it mainly as a card that ensures me to combo. If this resolves at one of my opponents end steps, I am normally ahead on mana with the mana rocks at this point in time. I am also usually in a place where memnarch is on the table and I start picking off lands 1 at a time as they enter the battlefield. If I have the mana available from my mana rocks, maybe go for an infinite combo or 2. I was mainly inspired by my friends Armageddon. I could also completely screw over 1 opponent and almost take them out of the game. For a combo list, I like it, but I could see it being cut.
My list is a complete combo fest, Power Artifact has been sweet. Rarely do I ever play it on Memnarch, but I guess it could be nifty if I were in a bind. Its always used for the infinite mana combos with the Monoliths.
I am lacking in card draw, if I were to focus on the compeitive route I would throw things like Impulse, Brainstorm, etc. I feel like this lists mainly runs out of gas when I cant mana ramp with the rocks. Just having Memnarch as himself is a great resource. Although I should include some more card draw being able to cast the Memdaddy feels like a wacky sort of card advantage. I tend to target other people rocks and their lands. I used to run a Mystic Remora, I actually got the idea from you in this primer. I am looking to throw it back in. Remora put in so much work.
I have some unorthodox inclusions and mainly because of sentimental reasons. Mindslaver is such a fun card, I would never include it in a competitive list, but mindslavering my friends is just too hard to resist. Also able to indefinitely control one person when at 13 mana is fun...albeit not totally necessary (depending on the board i will be locked out too....kinda). I also used to play Mono U Tron in modern...its more of a nod to that list than anything.
I wanted at least 1 extremely huge threat. Blightsteel draws attention and forces my opponents to answer him. With infinite mana its a great feeling casting him. This deck tries to go for infinite mana as soon as possible. But I also naturally get to 12+ mana with rocks alone. He was great with the partial mulligan rule, I always mulled him back to the deck. He gets a little worse now with that rule I feel. Any other normal Blue deck I feel like would not want to run him. Most times I have cast him its been on the back of the mana rocks.
I really want to play with Invoke Prejudice. I like playing less creatures and I feel like this would be extremely strong in the early game. Alas, I am not sure how competitive it would be since eventually people will pay for their creatures. But you could argue this enables us to go for some combos etc. I think its worth testing. I also agree with you on Bribery. I tend to search up other peoples Eldrazi/Blightsteel if they didnt have a Prophet. I could see this being cut.
My group is a combination between spikey and big fun time. But yeah, I plan on checking into this primer a lot. Keep up the great work. I like seeing your competitive tournament reports.
*****EDITED*****: Left part of my list out on accident.
Alright, consider your list as the feature combo list for this Primer. I'll set it aside in its own combo section along with a brief explanation of the deck's workings. Thanks for posting it!
Staff of Domination is an interesting artifact that, outside of a super combo-centric build, draws a lot of attention and is expensive to use. The most important part, to me, is the card draw option of the Staff and it takes quite a bit of mana to do that. I don't think that I would use it, finding the Lattice to be more effective in converting infinite colorless mana into a win. But, I am skewed towards long game control.
Sunder's logic reminds me a lot of Kaalia. Your rationale is good, and I think I will be considering this inclusion. My list would almost feel like a mono-Blue Kaalia list with Sunder.
I think your other card choices are a reflection of your meta, so if they work with your group go for it. It would be pretty sweet to kill someone with a mutated Darksteel Colossus. That's some good flavor, methinks.
How has Time Warp been for you? I used to run it myself but I think I cut it for Bribery because I liked stealing Prophet of Kruphix so much more. Prophet was basically the best kind of Time Warp and part of me is glad that it's banned. It definitely deserved it. Although my group has decided not to adopt that ban, in addition to their decisions to unban Primeval Titan and Recurring Nightmare while I was getting married. So Bribery is still really good in my group...
EDIT: Added MuzzleMuffin's combo list to the OP and gave credit to him/her there.
In all honesty, all of my games with my group Time Warp has been meh. Occasionally its allowed me to ramp by one land and cast something relevant. The times where it has been good is when it infinite turns combo with Archaeomancer + Deadeye/Riptide Laboratory. I think its a strong effect for 5 mana.
Well, MuzzleMuffin, it's good to know that you're a dude. I would feel badly if I addressed a girl posting here as a dude and it's better to be safe, methinks.
Well, your curve just went down a ton by making the Blightsteel switch. I have personally very much enjoyed Mystic Remora and it's drawn me a ton of cards in games that I've played with it. Unless I'm playing against Animar. Then I don't draw any cards off that cursed deck. But in a more traditional game, it's been a great card for me. Are there any other cards that you've come across to be good in your specific list?
Time Warp is a card I've definitely gone back and forth about. Sliding it in creates another infinite combo of infinite turns with Archaeomancer + Deadeye Navigator/Riptide Laboratory but I've drawn it sometimes and just have it be an explore, which isn't something I prefer to do with my mana. It would seem like a very expensive ramp spell. But, then again, I haven't played it in a very long time it feels like.
I'll be playing a few more games this Friday with our mechanical Madman, so I'll be happy to report what I find. The decks I'm concerned about are my brother's Freyalise Elfball deck, my friend's Azami deck (which thread I'm hosting in my signature), and his other Animar deck. All other decks I usually handle pretty well, I think.
I added more images to the Primer so that it's more visually engaging.
This is really beginning to look like a work of art to me. Sometimes, I'll just go to the OP to look at it. But, I am definitely slanted toward my Primer since, well, I made it, haha.
Nice work bear. I like knowing Memnarch has a pretty sweet primer.
I have a question concerning Counterbalance. How effective has it been? Is it hard to provide a lock with Top in the EDH format? It looks awesome but i'm worried that with all the varying mana costs edh has it might not be so great. Have any thoughts or insights you could share? I am looking into one for my list.
Thanks, MuzzleMuffin. It's really come together and has been a fun experience in creating something that will ideally last for a long while. Your list is up on the OP comrade, so thank you for your contribution!
Counterbalance has been great. The idea of Counterbalance is not to create a hard lock like Legacy does. Its purpose is to counter spells in the ideal CMC range (2 CMC - 4 CMC) for free. If you look at most curves of competetive decks and casual decks, their curves are heavily situated around the 2, 3, and 4 CMC. As is ours. This means that I can play a card on T2 that more likely than not will be able to counter 2-3 spells throughout the course of a game off of a blind flip, the most common occurrence. And, very interestingly enough, if you flip over a 2CMC or 3CMC card once you will even prohibit players from playing certain spells in their hands because they know they'll be countered even if those spells aren't radically game changing. So, while I am not able to control the trigger as easily in EDH than in Legacy, the card has easily pulled its weight. In my most recent game where I drew it, I was able to counter 4 spells with it, all off of blind flips. Once I Tezzereted Top onto the field I was able to threaten more proactively my opponents from playing spells.
I guess the way I look at it is that it is a counterspell that can gain cumulative card advantage over the course of a game simply by how I build my deck. It rewards good deck building and a knowledge of your opponents' decks. I personally think that Counterbalance becomes a legitimate threat in a UBX shell, where top of deck tutors are more abundant. I have proxied up a Scroll Rack to complement Top and the fetch land package I'm trying out to maximize the usefulness of Counterbalance and the overall consistency of my deck.
Any good games to share? That's always my favorite part about these threads.
I have some game reports to share. I won one and I lost the other, and the game that I won I ground it out with Memnarch's ability and not going infinite as card advantage wasn't flowing for me.
4 man with UG Ezuri, Memnarch, Toshiro Umezawa, Rakdos Lord of Riots
Well, this game was kind of bad for me because I missed land drops for 3 turns when I absolutely couldn't afford to do so. That was rough but it happens sometimes. Ezuri goes first and plays land go. I do the same thing and the table kind of goes around. Another important note is that there was collusion between the Toshiro and Rakdos player that Ezuri and I were able to determine about halfway through the game. In an effort to be civil and because the Rakdos player was new to our playgroup, we let it slide for the night as it also happened the second game where the Toshiro player would basically tell the Rakdos player what to do. Frustrating. Ezuri was burning through his life due to Sylvan Library and I played Island go. I draw into Sol Ring on my T3 after Ezuri played a Survival of the Fittest on his T3 and cast Trinket Mage to go and find Sensei's Divining Top. Toshiro played Phyrexian Arena and Rakdos played a Mistvein Borderpost and suspends a Roling Horror. Ezuri taps out to cast Ezuri, Claw of Progress and on my turn I Treachery it and hold mana up for Mana Drai on the suspended Roiling Horror since I read the card wrong and thought it would be an 18/18 due to the greatest difference in life totals between Roiling Horror and Ezuri, who is at 22 because of the Library. I Mana Drain the horror and because of the Suspend trigger on the Horror Rakdos, Lord of Riots comes out. Ezuri plays an Exploration and then Chord of Callings the new 3 drop Elf that disenchants, whose name escapes me. He targets my Treachery and I'm sad. On my turn, I draw into Bribery and with my 5 mana floating decide to go and find Sword of Feast and Famine with Fabricate. I find it, cast it, and suit up my Trinket Mage with it to swing at the Rakdos player. Toshiro attempts to kill it and I counter his kill spell with Counterspell untap my lands and hold up mana for some countermagic with Remand for the other players' turns. Ezuri starts to build some interesting board presence with Master Biomancer and some other weird creatures and there are some neat interactions going on. Rakdos had swung and tutored for a big thing but didn't cast it, instead killing my Sworded up Trinket Mage with Mizzium Mortars (as per the Toshiro player's direction when it should have probably been directed to Ezuri, Claw of Progress). Anyways, on my turn I decide to Bribery the Rakdos player to hopefully find some sweet targets since I have missed land drops for 3 turns now. Molten Primordial looks pretty good and I so I take it, taking Toshiro's Basilica Screecher, Rakdos' Rakdos, and Ezuri's Master Biomancer. I suit up the Primordial and declare attackers. Toshiro kills my Rakdos, because he doesn't want me to cast Memnarch for free and Ezuri Cyclonic Rifts my Sworded up Primordial. I would have killed Ezuri, but Toshiro killed my stolen Rakdos to stop me. Toshiro does nothing on his turn as does Rakdos and then Ezuri Survivals for Sage of Hours. With Master Biomancer and Ezuri, he has enough +1/+1 counters to take infinite turns and he proceeds to do so. I was tapped out and had no responses in hand, so we get smashed by Ezuri's board.
4 Man with Niv-Mizzet, Rakdos, Oloro, Memnarch
This game was very grindy with lots of people getting color screwed or land screwed, me not being one of them. Oloro missed land drops and was color screwed for 4 turns and Niv-Mizzet was color screwed as well. There really wasn't much to say about this game, as I built a board presence and decided to cast Memnarch when the opportunity presented itself and no one had massive card advantage. Oloro, seeing that he was going to lose pretty terribly decided to counter all of Niv-Mizzet's spells because of the collusion in this game and the previous, neither of which helped either player to play well or learn about EDH for the inexperienced Rakdos player. So, with Oloro countering the main collusive player, I stole his mana base out from underneath him followed by Rakdos' and then killed the table with combat damage from Memnarch and a Solemn Simulacrum over the course of lots of turns. Memnarch very much wins in a vaccuum, that's for sure.
EDIT: I added an entry for Karn Liberated and added a picture or two in addition to cleaning up some minor grammar, spelling, and coding issues. I've also been considering changing the focus for the deck and making it more artifact-centric again. I'm weighing the options, as I would almost certainly cut the Azami package to make room for an expanded Artifact package.
EDIT 2: Here's the decklist that I'm very seriously thinking about trying out for an extended period of time. It seems a little more flavorful, has more synergistic combos, while still maintaining good card advantage and counterspell count.
My group is apart (due to schooling, careers, etc.) at the moment. So as soon as I get a game in i'll give a quick update.
If you do go to a more artifact based version I 100% endorse Metalworker. If my memnarch list ran more artifacts it would be an auto slam. Would you want a Vedalken Orrery? Or is the Shimmer Myr more of what you want? I feel like you already operate quite well at instant speed so perhaps the Myr is good enough. And since you have some infinite mana combos. I feel like you have to include Staff of Domination. Going infinite with Metalworker and 3+ artifacts in hand seems so tasty.
I look forward to it. Us Memnarch players got to stick together and see what works. I also think with the addition of the many artifact creatures and the removal of the blue based creature package in my theoretical list (I plan to proxy it up before acquiring the new cards), Invoke Prejudice becomes a little stronger. Barely. Its color requirements are still super stringent, but it might make the list. I think I prefer Shimmer Myr because it itself has Flash, which I really quite prefer. Then, as you mention, I'm already playing a list that has a lot of instant speed power as it stands. Artifacts will comprise 26 cards out of my 99, and I want to be able to get them into play at instant speed more. Between my decklist, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, and Shimmer Myr I will be able to maintain the control aspects of my deck and increase the amount of cards that let me play at instant speed. So, to answer your question simply, yes I prefer Shimmer Myr more.
I've been reflecting on the new Memnarch list and I have a few thoughts. First, This list feels better in my head. I can't say why, but I think it just comes from a slight dissatisfaction with stagnation on my list and a need for something new. And also, this new/revisited artifact-centric combo list has a ridiculous amount of synergy and an absurd number of combos. I really kinda like that. It seems that my meta has become slightly faster in the sporadic games that I've played and there's been a few times where i just felt behind. I want to try and change that and moving into the more artifact based lists addresses that too. But the main thing I've been thinking about is: Why don't I just play Arcum Dagsson?
Well, to answer my own question and to hearken back to the OP, I just prefer to have a control card as my General. Tasigur, Dralnu, Oona, Memnarch have all been the generals that I most enjoy because their play-styles and deck construction reward control builds. Arcum is simply a tutor that demands attention immediately and isn't very good in a vaccuum. So, if you're wondering why I'm not just playing Arcum Dagsson, please remember that this choice is based on play style and how I enjoy MTG. And besides, I can run more infinite mana combos than Arcum and have it not be as bad since I have an outlet for infinite mana in Memnarch.
I 100% agree about the commander. I have had the same question pointed at me before. I have always had an affinity for taking control of people's stuff in card games. Memnarch lets me continue to do this; even act as a win con in some of the infinite combos.
I am currently in the market for a Mana Crypt. I know its busted, but how has it been for you? I feel like the 3 damage doesn't matter too much. So the next card I plan on squeezing in is this one...or would you recommend I pull the trigger on Mana Drain? Which of these has had a larger impact on your games?
Keep on Mem-daddying. As of now my two generals are Memnarch and Diaochan, Artful Beauty. With Memnarch being priority numero uno.
I 100% agree about the commander. I have had the same question pointed at me before. I have always had an affinity for taking control of people's stuff in card games. Memnarch lets me continue to do this; even act as a win con in some of the infinite combos.
I am currently in the market for a Mana Crypt. I know its busted, but how has it been for you? I feel like the 3 damage doesn't matter too much. So the next card I plan on squeezing in is this one...or would you recommend I pull the trigger on Mana Drain? Which of these has had a larger impact on your games?
Keep on Mem-daddying. As of now my two generals are Memnarch and Diaochan, Artful Beauty. With Memnarch being priority numero uno.
Regarding Mana Crypt, the occasional Lightning Bolt to the face is totally worth the free, repeatable 2 that it yields. It gets me off the ground quickly and isn't a bad card to draw in the late game since Memnarch capitalizes on mana. Sidenote, that's another reason why I like Memnarch more than other commanders. Late-game draws where you draw mana sources are not actually bad since Memnarch converts mana into cards. Opponents' cards, of course, but cards nonetheless.
As for Mana Crypt vs. Mana Drain... Oh. That's a TOUGH decision. Ultimately, I think getting the Crypt might be more feasible, cheaper, and more widely applicable across your two decks. But I've had enough games where accelerating into an early Memnarch put me so far ahead, from Mana Drain, that I would almost say the Drain might be better. My recommendation, which I think I will be following myself, is to acquire the Crypt first. It's a little more easily tutored for and accelerates our game plan much more quickly and consistently than Mana Drain does. I am taking the cards that I'm not currently using and trading them in to get some of the high dollar items for Memnarch, notably Mana Crypt and a foil Memnarch, if I can find one. I really only play Tasigur or Memnarch anymore, so having pieces for Grixis, mono-Black, and a whole host of other EDH decks is just taking up space and can be converted into cards that I will actually use on a consistent basis.
Cool. Crypt it is. I also want to know how your testing of Invoke Prejudice goes.
As for foil Memnarch...totally worth it. I think mine was 11+ dollars? Its been awhile since I got it. Right now they are sitting at $18.00 (US) for TCG low.
I think I'll be testing the new artifact-centric list tomorrow night with my brother and comrades before I try for Invoke Prejudice. Death Diamond, whose EDH lists I host in my sig, will be playing so I will look forward to some competitive games. I expect to see his Azami, the Oona list I mention in my Primer, and my brother's Freyalise deck, so it will be a good time to evaluate the artifact-centric list.
Some game reports! I was able to play two games with the newly updated mechanic madman, and I must say... Woah. The changes were excellent. There are at least a few cards that were all-stars during my games and I think I might make this artifact centric list the main list, pending a few more games of testing. It was a brutal series of games where the whole table tried to stop me, but couldn't. Oh, and I won WITHOUT going infinite, ironically enough. Anyways. On to the game reports!
4 Man Game with Kemba, Azami, Animar, Memnarch
Yeah, I was last in the turn cycle but that ultimately didn't matter with the mana production I was able to accumulate in the early stages of the game. So Kemba goes first, plays a Plains and a 1 drop Equipment, Azami plays an Island into a Cursecatcher, and Animar is setting up with a ETB tapped dual. I play an Island and say go. Kemba plays another Plains and a weird equipment dork that I don't remember, and Azami plays a Martyr of Frost. Animar does nothing again on my turn I play Silver Myr. Kemba attacks with the equipment dork that has renowned and finds an equipment. Azami plays a Augur of Bolas and Animar finally plays Animar. Seeing that Azami is tapped out, basically, I cast Thran Dynamo into Phyrexian Metamorph as a copy of Thran Dynamo and after playing another land. The table looks afraid. Azami takes a risk, I think, and casts Trinket Mage to find Mana Crypt cause he missed a land drop. I chuckle to myself and toss Memnarch out with enough mana to steal an artifact. And it all goes downhill from there. On my next turn I draw into Unwinding Clock and turn steal another land. Kemba was getting pretty big and had attacked me with 5 equipment equipped Kemba. With a Seedborn Muse effect untapping my artifacts and newly acquired artifact lands, I was able to snowball and theft the table's mana base. I of course started with Azami so that my mono-Blue rival wasn't a worry for me and stole Animar's Animar. From there, I quickly wrapped up the game with the table scooping to my ability to steal their mana base. I theoretically kill everyone with a stolen Kemba that was generating a cat army for me and Animar. Memnarch disdains actually killing people himself... Fast mana got me into a quick Memnarch and I won the game pretty overwhelmingly.
4 Man with Krenko, Azami, Animar, Memnarch
Holy hell this game was long and very convoluted, with several cards proving their worth. Again I won through massive mana advantage an didn't go infinite. I don't remember all the plays that lead up to it, but suffice to say that Metalworker was doing some WORK for me. Combined with Unwinding Clock and Shimmer Myr, I was able to play at instant speed for the majority of the game and accrue massive card advantage and board presence. The key plays that I remember were a Cyclonic Rift on T4 to stop Krenko from killing the table with Shared Animosity and 8 goblin tokens. From there I was able to build my board presence and mana presence, all while keeping mana open with an eye on Azami. Azami wasn't able to keep up with my mana advantage and wasn't able to build his board presence very significantly as he wanted to control me, being the only other blue based control deck at the table. The whole table was gunning for me. After a certain number of turns, Krenko tries to kill me by casting Purphoros, God of the Forge and then tap Krenko to generate 6 goblins when I'm at 10 life. I Mana Drain it, Azami Pact of Negations my Drain, and I cast Phyrexian Metamorph as a Venser, Shaper Savant I had cast earlier in the game. Returned Krenko to his hand so he couldn't activate it again, but he played it with the remaining mana he had. Azami technically loses to his Pact (for the 10th game, haha), and passes the turn. Now Animar is trying to kill me. I had expended a lot of answers and I didn't have any countermagic, since Future Sight was revealing all of my draws. I had Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study drawing me cards throughout the course of the game and I was probably really annoying with my Rhystic Study questions. Anyways, he turns Animar and a double-striking Wurm at me. I attempt to flash in a Duplicant to kill Animar and block the wurm, but Animar had a Voidslime. I threw my Shimmer Myr underneath Animar and Memnarch traded with the wurm. On my turn, I tapped Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx for 15 blue mana from all the permanents and cast Phantasmal Image as a copy of my Archaeomancer to return Cyclonic Rift to my hand and wipe the board since Purphoros had resolved earlier. With the remaining mana, I cast Memnarch for 13 mana and was set up to continue stealing the rest of the relevant cards that would be cast. Azami, in a last ditch effort to try and do something, starts chaining spells to cast Mind's Desire. In the chaining of his spells, Mystic Remora drew me into a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and the table scooped up their cards. I was able to steal 3 permanents a turn cycle, thanks to Unwinding Clock, so there really wasn't any point for them to keep playing. Metalworker was consistently adding me 4 at every activation and Unwinding Clock was an MVP, allowing me to play a ridiculous control game. Memnarch mechanizes all the opponents and kills them by sending his minions to kill them.
So, the artifact based list was extremely powerful, but there were a few cards that I wasn't happy to see, actually. Scroll Rack and Jester's Cap weren't particularly relevant during the game and I wish they had been other things. I think Staff of Domination will slide in and another artifact based draw spell, if I can find one. I want to try to keep the card advantage numbers where they are, as 11 cards, I think, are devoted to card advantage which is great. Any suggestions on a replacement? I don't consider Staff of Domination card draw because it costs a ridiculous amount of mana to be able to draw a card with it.
EDIT: I was able to talk with the mods of the multi-player forums and have the second post deleted so that I could have all my game reports be their own collective section. If you would like to read my past game reports, go to the post following the OP! I will continue to update it as I play new games as well as include those new games in the body of this thread.
When I think of artifact based draw spell I guess you could consider Temple Bell. I dont like any of the artifacts that give your opponents cards but I think this is the best one of those. At least you can do it at your last opponents end step so you have access to the card with full mana? I'm still not a fan of it really.
Good update. I will try to brainstorm for some more card ideas.
When I think of artifact based draw spell I guess you could consider Temple Bell. I dont like any of the artifacts that give your opponents cards but I think this is the best one of those. At least you can do it at your last opponents end step so you have access to the card with full mana? I'm still not a fan of it really.
Good update. I will try to brainstorm for some more card ideas.
Temple Bell... Meh. Giving my opponents cards isn't ideal. The two cards that I'm thinking of are Courier's Capsule and Mind's Eye. The Eye is a little expensive for what I want to do, since it requires mana to be available each turn. The Capsule is cheap in CMC, slightly reusable, and is easy to acquire. And those are basically the best options I've got so far, unless there's a secret one I haven't considered. Memory Jar comes to mind, but I don't know. I have one that isn't being used currently, so I'll try it out on Friday and see if I draw it and how it plays out.
The challenge, ultimately, is that I want to keep my artifact count at 26, possibly a little higher. This number seems to work for Metalworker and Shimmer Myr, but if I can replace certain cards with functional, artifact replacements that would be great. Some brainstormed ideas:
Of this list, I like most of them. I just want to have something that will continue to yield card advantage if I can. Otherwise, a hate card or control card would be ideal. I look forward to the opinions of others here!
Ha HAH! I found a foil Memnarch and a Mana Crypt at good prices! Boom. They are acquired. The only card I don't actually own in real life is the Mana Drain, but that can be a Stoic Rebuttal or Negate pretty easily. I like the Rebuttal, for flavor reasons.
Also, I decided to try out Mind's Eye in the slot of Scroll Rack. It also turns out I was playing 100 cards + Memnarch so I cut Jester's Cap entirely to bring me down to the legal 99 + Memnarch. I also switched Jin-Gitaxias for Staff of Domination to open up another combo and mana outlet for infinite colorless. I've goldfished the deck a few times now, and it appears that the most common routes to victory are a Monolith combo or Arcum Dagsson finding Disk/Lattice/Forge. I'm hoping to get a few actual games in, as I started one last Friday but couldn't finish due to time constraints.
EDIT: Primer is due for a massive overhaul in terms of the current decklist and the card choices. I will hopefully attend to that next week.
I played a couple of games on Friday and I must say this: being the Archenemy is both satisfying and frustrating at the same time. I lost both the games but that's because I was doing some pretty crazy stuff that shows the power of the new list.
4 Man Memnarch, Krenko, Damia, Oona
So this was a pretty decent game that I would have handily won, if not for a massive misplay on my part due to a miscommunication. Anyways. Things progress along, I'm playing some mana rocks and countering and bouncing Damia's T3 Damia in order to keep him off the Damia trigger (as he has only a single card in hand post-ramp) and Oona is just spidering along. Krenko builds up a token army as per usual. Eventually, Damia is able to stick a Damia on T7 or so (I had Cyclonic Rifted Damia and Evacuated the board leading up to this) and I had Phantasmal Imaged one myself on his previous turn, befor eI bounced Damia. Oona had countered a T5 Memnarch I had tried to play and blown up an artifact. I guess he was taking it upon himself to control me, haha. Anyways, Krenko builds up a board state again and then casts Descent of the Dragons. He targets my Damia, the other Damia, and Oona's Phantasmal Imaged Krenko. What he neglected to tell anyone is that he was also targeting his 6 goblin tokens. I had Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top in play and a Consecrated Sphinx in my top 3. I decided to let it resolve, since it was killing Damia and the other Krenko and only after the fact did Krenko tell us that he had suddenly spawned a massive flying army that would kill me on my next turn (I was at 23 life). Bad move, me. Bad move. Well, Damia plays Damia, Oona does nothing, and so I Top to put my Sphinx next in line to draw and proceed to cast it. Oona Go for the Throats it, I try to see if I can Counterbalance it with Top, I don't have it. Krenko proceeds to kill me with his flying Dragon army. Damia gets to untap with Damia, draws a full grip with the control elements to bounce the board and eventually Tooth and Nails for the win after Oona tapped out. Note to self: always be aware of the targets that should be announced upon casting a spell...
5 Man Memnarch, Xiahou Dun, Freyalise, Azami, Animar
I opened with Sol Ring, Mana Vault and a couple of Islands and a Phyrexian Metamorph. I decide that a T2 Memnarch would totally get me the game if unanswered and so I go all in. T2 Memnarch with the ability to slowly steal a land per turn over the course of a couple of turns of build up, starting with Animar or Azami since they had Islands. Freyalise plays a dork, Xiahou Dun Thoughtseizes me to strip me of the Metamorph, Azami sighs, and Animar Nature's Claims Memnarch. Well, I'm out of the game for QUITE some time as the Mana Vault is expensive to untap. Thankfully, Freyalise was building up a massive Elf army with a ridiculous mana base with Zendikar Resurgent AND Mana Reflection. Gross mana advantage. Azami has Patron Wizard and Voidmage Prodigy but isn't drawing mana. Xiahou Dun casts Decree of Pain and kills the board, drawing a total of 21 cards off of it. I still am not drawing anything but lands, and Freyalise rebuilds with a massive token vomit with Deranged Hermit and Avenger of Zendikar and then...Nullmage Shepherd. SO much lameness this game! After Freyalise rebuilds the his board again, Xiahou Dun casts All is Dust. I'm totally down with that and Freyalise uses Nullmage Shepherds my Gilded Lotus and Mana Vault and Xiahou's Bitterblossom. Freyalise didn't kill my Rhystic Study and that card got me back into the game again. After the All is Dust, people suddenly couldn't afford my Rhystic Study triggers and I drew into Caged Sun and Deadeye Navigator + Venser, Shaper Savant. I decided to aggressively go for the lockdown and the table banded together to prevent that from happening. And on the turn that I was tapped out, but with the lock on the board, Freyalise drew into a card draw piece and then into infinite mana with Gaea's Cradle + Deserted Temple + Argothian Elder + Rings of Brighthearth. Yes, he could have done it without the Elder, but he wanted to include the Elder. He makes infinite mana and infinite goats with Springjack Pasture and then plays Craterhoof Behemoth and sends a couple of dudes that weren't summoning sick at each of us. We get smashed by 'roided up Elves.
EDIT: Seeing how out of hand Freyalise, Animar, and Damia can get with colored permanents, I am reconsidering All is Dust. With the fast mana base that this deck sports now, it could easily make its way back in. I'll have to determine a cut if I can...
All is Dust has been great for me. Yes we lose a few colored things but the wording of "sacrifice" makes it one of the best sweepers for an artifact deck in my opinion.
I have been looking into Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I have one that has gone unused for quite awhile and seeing him with 4 relevant repeatable abilities looks great. What is your opinion on him? He looks like an All-Star. i will find room to test him out.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor carries its price tag for a reason. It's a great card as it provides card advantage, some board control, deck manipulation, and a legitimate win condition. It's probably because of these things that he never seems to last more than a turn in my meta. My friend Death Diamond plays Jace in his Damia and Azami decks and I've never seen Jace live more than a turn. Ever. He attracts dorks and other random 1/1's that normally wouldn't do anything and changes them into attackers. Is he an All-Star? For sure. In my meta? He's a 2UU Brainstorm or Unsummon. If you think that he'll work for your group, go for it. The ability to use his recurring abilities is very powerful and can swing the game in your favor for sure. I've just never had any success back in the day nor have I seen my opponents use him to success.But if you play a significant amount of 1v1 games, he's amazing and will probably win you the game by himself. Although a T2 Jace would be pretty attractive...
One of the reasons I didn't like him was the lightning rod like effect he has on the board state. I played a few 1 on 1 games against a friends Marchesa, the Black Rose combo (definitely janky) deck. We played the best of 3 games. I was able to ramp fast, cast a Memdaddy and start stealing lands. He couldn't really recover from that. Game 2 and 3 I was able to Fabricate, Muddle the Mixture, and Mystical Tutor for combo pieces and win. He dropped a lot of mass draw artifact cards that also benefited me in the early turns. In his defense he was playing a group hugish combo deck that is mostly tuned for multiplayer. He really had no chance from the beginning.
With some more testing I have found that I have decided to cut the Sunder for a Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Sunder wasn't performing like it has in the past and I think it was time to part ways. As of lately its just been sitting in my hand. WIth Jace, I understand as soon as I play him he may die in the next few turns. But if he is able to stick around and at least give me 2 activations it will be great. Repeatable brainstorm is something I could get behind. Will continue my testing with him.
One of the reasons I didn't like him was the lightning rod like effect he has on the board state. I played a few 1 on 1 games against a friends Marchesa, the Black Rose combo (definitely janky) deck. We played the best of 3 games. I was able to ramp fast, cast a Memdaddy and start stealing lands. He couldn't really recover from that. Game 2 and 3 I was able to Fabricate, Muddle the Mixture, and Mystical Tutor for combo pieces and win. He dropped a lot of mass draw artifact cards that also benefited me in the early turns. In his defense he was playing a group hugish combo deck that is mostly tuned for multiplayer. He really had no chance from the beginning.
With some more testing I have found that I have decided to cut the Sunder for a Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Sunder wasn't performing like it has in the past and I think it was time to part ways. As of lately its just been sitting in my hand. WIth Jace, I understand as soon as I play him he may die in the next few turns. But if he is able to stick around and at least give me 2 activations it will be great. Repeatable brainstorm is something I could get behind. Will continue my testing with him.
Memnarch has little regard for foes that aren't properly prepared for an epic battle. Going against a mono-Blue deck and enabling them to draw cards with Howling Mine effects just seems really bad. The multi-player version is pretty good and could easily compete in a 1v1 setting. I'd change out a few cards and I think Jace would be an easy shoe-in.
I'm interested to see how your Jace testing goes. As I've evaluated my list again as I made the MASSIVE overhaul of the Primer (with the change to the artifact-centric list), I realized that I'm down to about 10 sources of card draw. This makes me uncomfortable, personally, and I've noticed in my goldfishes that I can run out of gas pretty quickly if I don't draw well. I'm considering retooling the deck to incorporate more card-advantage permanents and Jace might get back in to the deck. The ones I want are Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Recurring Insight, and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. If I could somehow squeeze enough wizards into the deck while still maintaining a high artifact count I would definitely add the Azami package back in, but I don't think it's feasible. I think you either go Arcum or Azami package in Memnarch, since he strengthens either game plan and Arcum has a little better synergy.
I also DRAMATICALLY changed the OP. I changed the Deck List, the Card Selection, a few more grammar errors, and noted the Change in the second post where the Change Log is. My new goal is to see if I can somehow add a few select wizards to re-incorporate the Azami package that I so very much enjoyed. I'll be looking hard at my list and critically evaluating the pieces to see if there are combos that perform well and others that don't. To be clear, the Azami Package that I have REALLY enjoyed that was very strong by itself included the following cards:
I feel like you're weak in the card draw area, however. I think I count 7 total pieces of draw and/or card manipulation. Do you find yourself running out of gas too soon? I think I'm playing a total of 10-11 ways to get card advantage and I think that this allows for a better mid and late game. It seems a well-timed counterspell or removal spell would derail your game plan pretty severely.
All in all, I think this is a great combo list. I think, with your permission, I would like to include it in the OP to supplement my once-upon-a-time combo list that I was playing. Your list is definitely a close approximation to what I was playing and it might give readers better insight into how to build the combo focused list that Memnarch is usually known for, since I don't remember all the cards that I was playing in that list from 6 years ago.
Has anyone else played with Invoke Prejudice? It seems to be a powerful inclusion but, ironically, seems to be too slow for a good group. It would also require a change in the my creature base as most of my opponents' creatures are blue and Prejudice would do absolutely nothing if I have a Snapcaster Mage or Patron Wizard down. On the other side though, if you don't have any creatures in play, there will be NO creatures in play for as long as the enchantment is in play. I think if I were playing a less dense creature build that it would find a spot but I don't see one.
Also, Overwhelming Denial seems really good. It wins counter wars and is generally an uncounterable counterspell when your on your opponent's turn, which isn't bad. The only prohibition is the CMC without the Surge cost. Does it find an inclusion in the deck? The other card that is worth noting, Sphinx of the Final Word, is trying to find a spot in my list as well. I have a lot of cards that are vying for Bribery's slot and I want to gather opinions on which might be the best inclusion.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
EDIT: I also added links for several alternate mono-Blue EDH generals that I think are super strong, notably Venser, Azami, and Teferi.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I find myself going for infinite colorless quite a bit. The two best things to have while having infinite colorless is the Lattice or Staff of Domination
I really want to play with Invoke Prejudice. I like playing less creatures and I feel like this would be extremely strong in the early game. Alas, I am not sure how competitive it would be since eventually people will pay for their creatures. But you could argue this enables us to go for some combos etc. I think its worth testing. I also agree with you on Bribery. I tend to search up other peoples Eldrazi/Blightsteel if they didnt have a Prophet. I could see this being cut.
My group is a combination between spikey and big fun time. But yeah, I plan on checking into this primer a lot. Keep up the great work. I like seeing your competitive tournament reports.
*****EDITED*****: Left part of my list out on accident.
Alright, consider your list as the feature combo list for this Primer. I'll set it aside in its own combo section along with a brief explanation of the deck's workings. Thanks for posting it!
Staff of Domination is an interesting artifact that, outside of a super combo-centric build, draws a lot of attention and is expensive to use. The most important part, to me, is the card draw option of the Staff and it takes quite a bit of mana to do that. I don't think that I would use it, finding the Lattice to be more effective in converting infinite colorless mana into a win. But, I am skewed towards long game control.
Sunder's logic reminds me a lot of Kaalia. Your rationale is good, and I think I will be considering this inclusion. My list would almost feel like a mono-Blue Kaalia list with Sunder.
I think your other card choices are a reflection of your meta, so if they work with your group go for it. It would be pretty sweet to kill someone with a mutated Darksteel Colossus. That's some good flavor, methinks.
How has Time Warp been for you? I used to run it myself but I think I cut it for Bribery because I liked stealing Prophet of Kruphix so much more. Prophet was basically the best kind of Time Warp and part of me is glad that it's banned. It definitely deserved it. Although my group has decided not to adopt that ban, in addition to their decisions to unban Primeval Titan and Recurring Nightmare while I was getting married. So Bribery is still really good in my group...
EDIT: Added MuzzleMuffin's combo list to the OP and gave credit to him/her there.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
After some consideration I am considering cutting Blightsteel Colossus for the one Mystic Remora.
Also, I am a him...but I do not think that matters. The list looks good in the primer. Thanks for the consideration.
Well, your curve just went down a ton by making the Blightsteel switch. I have personally very much enjoyed Mystic Remora and it's drawn me a ton of cards in games that I've played with it. Unless I'm playing against Animar. Then I don't draw any cards off that cursed deck. But in a more traditional game, it's been a great card for me. Are there any other cards that you've come across to be good in your specific list?
Time Warp is a card I've definitely gone back and forth about. Sliding it in creates another infinite combo of infinite turns with Archaeomancer + Deadeye Navigator/Riptide Laboratory but I've drawn it sometimes and just have it be an explore, which isn't something I prefer to do with my mana. It would seem like a very expensive ramp spell. But, then again, I haven't played it in a very long time it feels like.
I'll be playing a few more games this Friday with our mechanical Madman, so I'll be happy to report what I find. The decks I'm concerned about are my brother's Freyalise Elfball deck, my friend's Azami deck (which thread I'm hosting in my signature), and his other Animar deck. All other decks I usually handle pretty well, I think.
EDIT: Added card entries for Tamiyo, the Moon Sage, Sapphire Medallion, and Sphinx of the Final Word in addition to some spelling and grammar checks.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
This is really beginning to look like a work of art to me. Sometimes, I'll just go to the OP to look at it. But, I am definitely slanted toward my Primer since, well, I made it, haha.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I have a question concerning Counterbalance. How effective has it been? Is it hard to provide a lock with Top in the EDH format? It looks awesome but i'm worried that with all the varying mana costs edh has it might not be so great. Have any thoughts or insights you could share? I am looking into one for my list.
Counterbalance has been great. The idea of Counterbalance is not to create a hard lock like Legacy does. Its purpose is to counter spells in the ideal CMC range (2 CMC - 4 CMC) for free. If you look at most curves of competetive decks and casual decks, their curves are heavily situated around the 2, 3, and 4 CMC. As is ours. This means that I can play a card on T2 that more likely than not will be able to counter 2-3 spells throughout the course of a game off of a blind flip, the most common occurrence. And, very interestingly enough, if you flip over a 2CMC or 3CMC card once you will even prohibit players from playing certain spells in their hands because they know they'll be countered even if those spells aren't radically game changing. So, while I am not able to control the trigger as easily in EDH than in Legacy, the card has easily pulled its weight. In my most recent game where I drew it, I was able to counter 4 spells with it, all off of blind flips. Once I Tezzereted Top onto the field I was able to threaten more proactively my opponents from playing spells.
I guess the way I look at it is that it is a counterspell that can gain cumulative card advantage over the course of a game simply by how I build my deck. It rewards good deck building and a knowledge of your opponents' decks. I personally think that Counterbalance becomes a legitimate threat in a UBX shell, where top of deck tutors are more abundant. I have proxied up a Scroll Rack to complement Top and the fetch land package I'm trying out to maximize the usefulness of Counterbalance and the overall consistency of my deck.
Any good games to share? That's always my favorite part about these threads.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 man with UG Ezuri, Memnarch, Toshiro Umezawa, Rakdos Lord of Riots
Well, this game was kind of bad for me because I missed land drops for 3 turns when I absolutely couldn't afford to do so. That was rough but it happens sometimes. Ezuri goes first and plays land go. I do the same thing and the table kind of goes around. Another important note is that there was collusion between the Toshiro and Rakdos player that Ezuri and I were able to determine about halfway through the game. In an effort to be civil and because the Rakdos player was new to our playgroup, we let it slide for the night as it also happened the second game where the Toshiro player would basically tell the Rakdos player what to do. Frustrating. Ezuri was burning through his life due to Sylvan Library and I played Island go. I draw into Sol Ring on my T3 after Ezuri played a Survival of the Fittest on his T3 and cast Trinket Mage to go and find Sensei's Divining Top. Toshiro played Phyrexian Arena and Rakdos played a Mistvein Borderpost and suspends a Roling Horror. Ezuri taps out to cast Ezuri, Claw of Progress and on my turn I Treachery it and hold mana up for Mana Drai on the suspended Roiling Horror since I read the card wrong and thought it would be an 18/18 due to the greatest difference in life totals between Roiling Horror and Ezuri, who is at 22 because of the Library. I Mana Drain the horror and because of the Suspend trigger on the Horror Rakdos, Lord of Riots comes out. Ezuri plays an Exploration and then Chord of Callings the new 3 drop Elf that disenchants, whose name escapes me. He targets my Treachery and I'm sad. On my turn, I draw into Bribery and with my 5 mana floating decide to go and find Sword of Feast and Famine with Fabricate. I find it, cast it, and suit up my Trinket Mage with it to swing at the Rakdos player. Toshiro attempts to kill it and I counter his kill spell with Counterspell untap my lands and hold up mana for some countermagic with Remand for the other players' turns. Ezuri starts to build some interesting board presence with Master Biomancer and some other weird creatures and there are some neat interactions going on. Rakdos had swung and tutored for a big thing but didn't cast it, instead killing my Sworded up Trinket Mage with Mizzium Mortars (as per the Toshiro player's direction when it should have probably been directed to Ezuri, Claw of Progress). Anyways, on my turn I decide to Bribery the Rakdos player to hopefully find some sweet targets since I have missed land drops for 3 turns now. Molten Primordial looks pretty good and I so I take it, taking Toshiro's Basilica Screecher, Rakdos' Rakdos, and Ezuri's Master Biomancer. I suit up the Primordial and declare attackers. Toshiro kills my Rakdos, because he doesn't want me to cast Memnarch for free and Ezuri Cyclonic Rifts my Sworded up Primordial. I would have killed Ezuri, but Toshiro killed my stolen Rakdos to stop me. Toshiro does nothing on his turn as does Rakdos and then Ezuri Survivals for Sage of Hours. With Master Biomancer and Ezuri, he has enough +1/+1 counters to take infinite turns and he proceeds to do so. I was tapped out and had no responses in hand, so we get smashed by Ezuri's board.
4 Man with Niv-Mizzet, Rakdos, Oloro, Memnarch
This game was very grindy with lots of people getting color screwed or land screwed, me not being one of them. Oloro missed land drops and was color screwed for 4 turns and Niv-Mizzet was color screwed as well. There really wasn't much to say about this game, as I built a board presence and decided to cast Memnarch when the opportunity presented itself and no one had massive card advantage. Oloro, seeing that he was going to lose pretty terribly decided to counter all of Niv-Mizzet's spells because of the collusion in this game and the previous, neither of which helped either player to play well or learn about EDH for the inexperienced Rakdos player. So, with Oloro countering the main collusive player, I stole his mana base out from underneath him followed by Rakdos' and then killed the table with combat damage from Memnarch and a Solemn Simulacrum over the course of lots of turns. Memnarch very much wins in a vaccuum, that's for sure.
EDIT: I added an entry for Karn Liberated and added a picture or two in addition to cleaning up some minor grammar, spelling, and coding issues. I've also been considering changing the focus for the deck and making it more artifact-centric again. I'm weighing the options, as I would almost certainly cut the Azami package to make room for an expanded Artifact package.
EDIT 2: Here's the decklist that I'm very seriously thinking about trying out for an extended period of time. It seems a little more flavorful, has more synergistic combos, while still maintaining good card advantage and counterspell count.
1 Memnarch
Mana Sources
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Silver Myr
1 Metalworker
1 Grand Architect
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Caged Sun
Card Advantage
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystic Remora
1 Scroll Rack
1 Rhystic Study
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Future Sight
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Tutors
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Fabricate
1 Trinket Mage
1 Arcum Dagsson
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Reality Shift
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Capsize
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Evacuation
1 Duplicant
Counterspells
1 Pact of Negation
1 Swan Song
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
1 Arcane Denial
1 Trickbind
1 Counterbalance
1 Cryptic Command
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Force of Will
Combo Pieces
1 Pili-Pala
1 Power Artifact
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Palinchron
1 Darksteel Forge
Utility
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Myr Retriever
1 Shimmer Myr
1 Jester's Cap
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Archaeomancer
1 Myr Turbine
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Buried Ruin
1 Academy Ruins
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
23 Islands
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
If you do go to a more artifact based version I 100% endorse Metalworker. If my memnarch list ran more artifacts it would be an auto slam. Would you want a Vedalken Orrery? Or is the Shimmer Myr more of what you want? I feel like you already operate quite well at instant speed so perhaps the Myr is good enough. And since you have some infinite mana combos. I feel like you have to include Staff of Domination. Going infinite with Metalworker and 3+ artifacts in hand seems so tasty.
I've been reflecting on the new Memnarch list and I have a few thoughts. First, This list feels better in my head. I can't say why, but I think it just comes from a slight dissatisfaction with stagnation on my list and a need for something new. And also, this new/revisited artifact-centric combo list has a ridiculous amount of synergy and an absurd number of combos. I really kinda like that. It seems that my meta has become slightly faster in the sporadic games that I've played and there's been a few times where i just felt behind. I want to try and change that and moving into the more artifact based lists addresses that too. But the main thing I've been thinking about is: Why don't I just play Arcum Dagsson?
Well, to answer my own question and to hearken back to the OP, I just prefer to have a control card as my General. Tasigur, Dralnu, Oona, Memnarch have all been the generals that I most enjoy because their play-styles and deck construction reward control builds. Arcum is simply a tutor that demands attention immediately and isn't very good in a vaccuum. So, if you're wondering why I'm not just playing Arcum Dagsson, please remember that this choice is based on play style and how I enjoy MTG. And besides, I can run more infinite mana combos than Arcum and have it not be as bad since I have an outlet for infinite mana in Memnarch.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I am currently in the market for a Mana Crypt. I know its busted, but how has it been for you? I feel like the 3 damage doesn't matter too much. So the next card I plan on squeezing in is this one...or would you recommend I pull the trigger on Mana Drain? Which of these has had a larger impact on your games?
Keep on Mem-daddying. As of now my two generals are Memnarch and Diaochan, Artful Beauty. With Memnarch being priority numero uno.
Regarding Mana Crypt, the occasional Lightning Bolt to the face is totally worth the free, repeatable 2 that it yields. It gets me off the ground quickly and isn't a bad card to draw in the late game since Memnarch capitalizes on mana. Sidenote, that's another reason why I like Memnarch more than other commanders. Late-game draws where you draw mana sources are not actually bad since Memnarch converts mana into cards. Opponents' cards, of course, but cards nonetheless.
As for Mana Crypt vs. Mana Drain... Oh. That's a TOUGH decision. Ultimately, I think getting the Crypt might be more feasible, cheaper, and more widely applicable across your two decks. But I've had enough games where accelerating into an early Memnarch put me so far ahead, from Mana Drain, that I would almost say the Drain might be better. My recommendation, which I think I will be following myself, is to acquire the Crypt first. It's a little more easily tutored for and accelerates our game plan much more quickly and consistently than Mana Drain does. I am taking the cards that I'm not currently using and trading them in to get some of the high dollar items for Memnarch, notably Mana Crypt and a foil Memnarch, if I can find one. I really only play Tasigur or Memnarch anymore, so having pieces for Grixis, mono-Black, and a whole host of other EDH decks is just taking up space and can be converted into cards that I will actually use on a consistent basis.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
As for foil Memnarch...totally worth it. I think mine was 11+ dollars? Its been awhile since I got it. Right now they are sitting at $18.00 (US) for TCG low.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 Man Game with Kemba, Azami, Animar, Memnarch
Yeah, I was last in the turn cycle but that ultimately didn't matter with the mana production I was able to accumulate in the early stages of the game. So Kemba goes first, plays a Plains and a 1 drop Equipment, Azami plays an Island into a Cursecatcher, and Animar is setting up with a ETB tapped dual. I play an Island and say go. Kemba plays another Plains and a weird equipment dork that I don't remember, and Azami plays a Martyr of Frost. Animar does nothing again on my turn I play Silver Myr. Kemba attacks with the equipment dork that has renowned and finds an equipment. Azami plays a Augur of Bolas and Animar finally plays Animar. Seeing that Azami is tapped out, basically, I cast Thran Dynamo into Phyrexian Metamorph as a copy of Thran Dynamo and after playing another land. The table looks afraid. Azami takes a risk, I think, and casts Trinket Mage to find Mana Crypt cause he missed a land drop. I chuckle to myself and toss Memnarch out with enough mana to steal an artifact. And it all goes downhill from there. On my next turn I draw into Unwinding Clock and turn steal another land. Kemba was getting pretty big and had attacked me with 5 equipment equipped Kemba. With a Seedborn Muse effect untapping my artifacts and newly acquired artifact lands, I was able to snowball and theft the table's mana base. I of course started with Azami so that my mono-Blue rival wasn't a worry for me and stole Animar's Animar. From there, I quickly wrapped up the game with the table scooping to my ability to steal their mana base. I theoretically kill everyone with a stolen Kemba that was generating a cat army for me and Animar. Memnarch disdains actually killing people himself... Fast mana got me into a quick Memnarch and I won the game pretty overwhelmingly.
4 Man with Krenko, Azami, Animar, Memnarch
Holy hell this game was long and very convoluted, with several cards proving their worth. Again I won through massive mana advantage an didn't go infinite. I don't remember all the plays that lead up to it, but suffice to say that Metalworker was doing some WORK for me. Combined with Unwinding Clock and Shimmer Myr, I was able to play at instant speed for the majority of the game and accrue massive card advantage and board presence. The key plays that I remember were a Cyclonic Rift on T4 to stop Krenko from killing the table with Shared Animosity and 8 goblin tokens. From there I was able to build my board presence and mana presence, all while keeping mana open with an eye on Azami. Azami wasn't able to keep up with my mana advantage and wasn't able to build his board presence very significantly as he wanted to control me, being the only other blue based control deck at the table. The whole table was gunning for me. After a certain number of turns, Krenko tries to kill me by casting Purphoros, God of the Forge and then tap Krenko to generate 6 goblins when I'm at 10 life. I Mana Drain it, Azami Pact of Negations my Drain, and I cast Phyrexian Metamorph as a Venser, Shaper Savant I had cast earlier in the game. Returned Krenko to his hand so he couldn't activate it again, but he played it with the remaining mana he had. Azami technically loses to his Pact (for the 10th game, haha), and passes the turn. Now Animar is trying to kill me. I had expended a lot of answers and I didn't have any countermagic, since Future Sight was revealing all of my draws. I had Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study drawing me cards throughout the course of the game and I was probably really annoying with my Rhystic Study questions. Anyways, he turns Animar and a double-striking Wurm at me. I attempt to flash in a Duplicant to kill Animar and block the wurm, but Animar had a Voidslime. I threw my Shimmer Myr underneath Animar and Memnarch traded with the wurm. On my turn, I tapped Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx for 15 blue mana from all the permanents and cast Phantasmal Image as a copy of my Archaeomancer to return Cyclonic Rift to my hand and wipe the board since Purphoros had resolved earlier. With the remaining mana, I cast Memnarch for 13 mana and was set up to continue stealing the rest of the relevant cards that would be cast. Azami, in a last ditch effort to try and do something, starts chaining spells to cast Mind's Desire. In the chaining of his spells, Mystic Remora drew me into a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and the table scooped up their cards. I was able to steal 3 permanents a turn cycle, thanks to Unwinding Clock, so there really wasn't any point for them to keep playing. Metalworker was consistently adding me 4 at every activation and Unwinding Clock was an MVP, allowing me to play a ridiculous control game. Memnarch mechanizes all the opponents and kills them by sending his minions to kill them.
So, the artifact based list was extremely powerful, but there were a few cards that I wasn't happy to see, actually. Scroll Rack and Jester's Cap weren't particularly relevant during the game and I wish they had been other things. I think Staff of Domination will slide in and another artifact based draw spell, if I can find one. I want to try to keep the card advantage numbers where they are, as 11 cards, I think, are devoted to card advantage which is great. Any suggestions on a replacement? I don't consider Staff of Domination card draw because it costs a ridiculous amount of mana to be able to draw a card with it.
EDIT: I was able to talk with the mods of the multi-player forums and have the second post deleted so that I could have all my game reports be their own collective section. If you would like to read my past game reports, go to the post following the OP! I will continue to update it as I play new games as well as include those new games in the body of this thread.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Good update. I will try to brainstorm for some more card ideas.
Temple Bell... Meh. Giving my opponents cards isn't ideal. The two cards that I'm thinking of are Courier's Capsule and Mind's Eye. The Eye is a little expensive for what I want to do, since it requires mana to be available each turn. The Capsule is cheap in CMC, slightly reusable, and is easy to acquire. And those are basically the best options I've got so far, unless there's a secret one I haven't considered. Memory Jar comes to mind, but I don't know. I have one that isn't being used currently, so I'll try it out on Friday and see if I draw it and how it plays out.
The challenge, ultimately, is that I want to keep my artifact count at 26, possibly a little higher. This number seems to work for Metalworker and Shimmer Myr, but if I can replace certain cards with functional, artifact replacements that would be great. Some brainstormed ideas:
Of this list, I like most of them. I just want to have something that will continue to yield card advantage if I can. Otherwise, a hate card or control card would be ideal. I look forward to the opinions of others here!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Also, I decided to try out Mind's Eye in the slot of Scroll Rack. It also turns out I was playing 100 cards + Memnarch so I cut Jester's Cap entirely to bring me down to the legal 99 + Memnarch. I also switched Jin-Gitaxias for Staff of Domination to open up another combo and mana outlet for infinite colorless. I've goldfished the deck a few times now, and it appears that the most common routes to victory are a Monolith combo or Arcum Dagsson finding Disk/Lattice/Forge. I'm hoping to get a few actual games in, as I started one last Friday but couldn't finish due to time constraints.
EDIT: Primer is due for a massive overhaul in terms of the current decklist and the card choices. I will hopefully attend to that next week.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 Man Memnarch, Krenko, Damia, Oona
So this was a pretty decent game that I would have handily won, if not for a massive misplay on my part due to a miscommunication. Anyways. Things progress along, I'm playing some mana rocks and countering and bouncing Damia's T3 Damia in order to keep him off the Damia trigger (as he has only a single card in hand post-ramp) and Oona is just spidering along. Krenko builds up a token army as per usual. Eventually, Damia is able to stick a Damia on T7 or so (I had Cyclonic Rifted Damia and Evacuated the board leading up to this) and I had Phantasmal Imaged one myself on his previous turn, befor eI bounced Damia. Oona had countered a T5 Memnarch I had tried to play and blown up an artifact. I guess he was taking it upon himself to control me, haha. Anyways, Krenko builds up a board state again and then casts Descent of the Dragons. He targets my Damia, the other Damia, and Oona's Phantasmal Imaged Krenko. What he neglected to tell anyone is that he was also targeting his 6 goblin tokens. I had Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top in play and a Consecrated Sphinx in my top 3. I decided to let it resolve, since it was killing Damia and the other Krenko and only after the fact did Krenko tell us that he had suddenly spawned a massive flying army that would kill me on my next turn (I was at 23 life). Bad move, me. Bad move. Well, Damia plays Damia, Oona does nothing, and so I Top to put my Sphinx next in line to draw and proceed to cast it. Oona Go for the Throats it, I try to see if I can Counterbalance it with Top, I don't have it. Krenko proceeds to kill me with his flying Dragon army. Damia gets to untap with Damia, draws a full grip with the control elements to bounce the board and eventually Tooth and Nails for the win after Oona tapped out. Note to self: always be aware of the targets that should be announced upon casting a spell...
5 Man Memnarch, Xiahou Dun, Freyalise, Azami, Animar
EDIT: Seeing how out of hand Freyalise, Animar, and Damia can get with colored permanents, I am reconsidering All is Dust. With the fast mana base that this deck sports now, it could easily make its way back in. I'll have to determine a cut if I can...
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I have been looking into Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I have one that has gone unused for quite awhile and seeing him with 4 relevant repeatable abilities looks great. What is your opinion on him? He looks like an All-Star. i will find room to test him out.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
With some more testing I have found that I have decided to cut the Sunder for a Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Sunder wasn't performing like it has in the past and I think it was time to part ways. As of lately its just been sitting in my hand. WIth Jace, I understand as soon as I play him he may die in the next few turns. But if he is able to stick around and at least give me 2 activations it will be great. Repeatable brainstorm is something I could get behind. Will continue my testing with him.
Memnarch has little regard for foes that aren't properly prepared for an epic battle. Going against a mono-Blue deck and enabling them to draw cards with Howling Mine effects just seems really bad. The multi-player version is pretty good and could easily compete in a 1v1 setting. I'd change out a few cards and I think Jace would be an easy shoe-in.
I'm interested to see how your Jace testing goes. As I've evaluated my list again as I made the MASSIVE overhaul of the Primer (with the change to the artifact-centric list), I realized that I'm down to about 10 sources of card draw. This makes me uncomfortable, personally, and I've noticed in my goldfishes that I can run out of gas pretty quickly if I don't draw well. I'm considering retooling the deck to incorporate more card-advantage permanents and Jace might get back in to the deck. The ones I want are Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Recurring Insight, and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. If I could somehow squeeze enough wizards into the deck while still maintaining a high artifact count I would definitely add the Azami package back in, but I don't think it's feasible. I think you either go Arcum or Azami package in Memnarch, since he strengthens either game plan and Arcum has a little better synergy.
I also DRAMATICALLY changed the OP. I changed the Deck List, the Card Selection, a few more grammar errors, and noted the Change in the second post where the Change Log is. My new goal is to see if I can somehow add a few select wizards to re-incorporate the Azami package that I so very much enjoyed. I'll be looking hard at my list and critically evaluating the pieces to see if there are combos that perform well and others that don't. To be clear, the Azami Package that I have REALLY enjoyed that was very strong by itself included the following cards:
1 Sigil Tracer
1 Patron Wizard
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
1 Illusionist's Bracers
EDIT: Also put up a link for TheTrueNub's Arcum Primer since reading his Primer helped to inspire the recent shift in deck composition.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager