I'll be putting Judith, the Scourge Diva in my Marchesa, I will be cutting Olivia, Mobilized for War from mine for her as Olivia feels like the weakest three drop in my list. I've found some gems for the pure aggro plan but I'm also testing other stuff too. I haven't yet drawn Dawn of the Dead but I think it might be worth.
I had the same thoughts on Judith, though I'm not sure what I'll cut for her. I wasn't playing Olivia. I feel like I might need to move away from being so 4CMC heavy.
I'll be putting Judith, the Scourge Diva in my Marchesa, I will be cutting Olivia, Mobilized for War from mine for her as Olivia feels like the weakest three drop in my list. I've found some gems for the pure aggro plan but I'm also testing other stuff too. I haven't yet drawn Dawn of the Dead but I think it might be worth.
I never thought about Dawn of the Dead before but that's pretty neat. Pretty sure I have one sitting in a box somewhere, might try it out.
Judith is fantastic, I agree with central in cutting Inalla, she just doesn't do enough most times. Judith can punish life and adjust life totals including our own. Not to mention the occasional removal of a dude or keeping a walker in check.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I would try it. I think it would replace Smuggler's Copter which seems to me to be a bad trade. Copter does a lot for the deck in that it dodges Wraths, Loots, is sizable especially after a Dethrone or two and is evasive. Benthic Biomancer just lowers the curve and has a less reliable draw engine.
Perhaps instead I would cut Imperial Recruiter but that seems to be a mistake. I don't actively use its Tutor though I could setup an infinite with Sage of Fables/Metallic Mimic and Glen Elendra Archmage with Goblin Bombardment/Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat/Hissing Iguanar. There's lots of interchangeable parts, so I can easily set that up with Recruiter but I feel like my aggro plan suffers if I use the Recruiter to loop up a combo win. It's quite the pickle. The Recruiter fetches me one exact card per loop, while all my other three drop draw engines don't tutor but draw a lot more per loop than the Recruiter.
Plus I do want to use Judith, the Scourge Diva. I'm not sure if I would want to cut any of my pingers for her.
Liking Priest of Forgotten Gods. Yes it's a bummer that it's a tap ability and two other creatures to activate that ability. But on the plus side it's a cheap creature, there's no mana cost to the ability and that's a lot of value generated from that ability.
Im liking it too, but still think its a tad slow in this type of deck. Aristocrats for sure, the wait: tap is killer in an aggro shell of this deck. Also good for Combo/value for sure.
I would try it. I think it would replace Smuggler's Copter which seems to me to be a bad trade. Copter does a lot for the deck in that it dodges Wraths, Loots, is sizable especially after a Dethrone or two and is evasive. Benthic Biomancer just lowers the curve and has a less reliable draw engine.
Perhaps instead I would cut Imperial Recruiter but that seems to be a mistake. I don't actively use its Tutor though I could setup an infinite with Sage of Fables/Metallic Mimic and Glen Elendra Archmage with Goblin Bombardment/Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat/Hissing Iguanar. There's lots of interchangeable parts, so I can easily set that up with Recruiter but I feel like my aggro plan suffers if I use the Recruiter to loop up a combo win. It's quite the pickle. The Recruiter fetches me one exact card per loop, while all my other three drop draw engines don't tutor but draw a lot more per loop than the Recruiter.
Plus I do want to use Judith, the Scourge Diva. I'm not sure if I would want to cut any of my pingers for her.
Reading stuff like this always makes my day. You wanna cut the best creature tutor in the deck for a 3 drop that maybe does something only if it attacks. You wanna also cut the best creature haste enabler in the grixis colors (Olivia) for benthic.
Biomancer is a very good card and has to be in the deck but for other reasons.
I’ve read that there are 2 ways Marchesa can be played: Tev’s and Rune’s. Rune’s way of playing marchesa is dead because of the mulligan: you can no longer play edh you used to with high curve on 4 because you mull for lands keeping few starters and rocks. That way of playing is gone for good.
Now about Tev’s idea... 80% of the cards he’s been testing have no sense in the deck BUT the general idea works: loads of drawing on cc2-3, lower curve shaving cc6+ and don’t go all in while stabilized.
I would try it. I think it would replace Smuggler's Copter which seems to me to be a bad trade. Copter does a lot for the deck in that it dodges Wraths, Loots, is sizable especially after a Dethrone or two and is evasive. Benthic Biomancer just lowers the curve and has a less reliable draw engine.
Perhaps instead I would cut Imperial Recruiter but that seems to be a mistake. I don't actively use its Tutor though I could setup an infinite with Sage of Fables/Metallic Mimic and Glen Elendra Archmage with Goblin Bombardment/Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat/Hissing Iguanar. There's lots of interchangeable parts, so I can easily set that up with Recruiter but I feel like my aggro plan suffers if I use the Recruiter to loop up a combo win. It's quite the pickle. The Recruiter fetches me one exact card per loop, while all my other three drop draw engines don't tutor but draw a lot more per loop than the Recruiter.
Plus I do want to use Judith, the Scourge Diva. I'm not sure if I would want to cut any of my pingers for her.
Reading stuff like this always makes my day. You wanna cut the best creature tutor in the deck for a 3 drop that maybe does something only if it attacks. You wanna also cut the best creature haste enabler in the grixis colors (Olivia) for benthic.
Biomancer is a very good card and has to be in the deck but for other reasons.
I’ve read that there are 2 ways Marchesa can be played: Tev’s and Rune’s. Rune’s way of playing marchesa is dead because of the mulligan: you can no longer play edh you used to with high curve on 4 because you mull for lands keeping few starters and rocks. That way of playing is gone for good.
Now about Tev’s idea... 80% of the cards he’s been testing have no sense in the deck BUT the general idea works: loads of drawing on cc2-3, lower curve shaving cc6+ and don’t go all in while stabilized.
I agree on Imperial Recruiter. That's always been one of the absolute best cards in the deck to me, I can't imagine ever cutting him for anything. Although I do get that a 3 mana 1/1 is really counter to Tev's traditional aggro strategy. His deck is definitely different from my own.
I don't like Olivia. I tried her and cut her a while ago. I rarely wanted to throw out a card for that effect. I play expecting my creatures to die repeatedly. If I manage to actually lose one then I just play another. None are really all that important by themselves, it's the card advantage over time that wins me the game. And I run real tight on land so I rarely have those to pitch. The idea of pitching a playable to temporarily protect one creature with a counter doesn't sit well with me at all.
As for the rest, I started with Rune's build and tweaked it over time to my liking. I ended up with something a bit less aggro and more controlling, its very much midrange. The change in the mulligan rule made very little difference to my ability to play the deck personally. Of course my group is strong but definitely not competitive level. Then again if you're trying to play competitive level EDH I have no idea why you'd pick marchesa. A creature based strategy centered around your commander is an inherently flawed strategy in a competitive legacy environment.
I will say that the influx of strong GY hate has made an impact on my ability to play midrange marchesa, much more so then the mulligan change. That's probably the strongest argument I personally have for switching to Tev's way of playing. Although personally I just made other decks and used marchesa less. You don't want to use the same deck too much within your playgroup anyway.
My way of playing is nowhere near dead, this deck still wrecks tables
Also no one should even be thinking about cutting recruiter, I'd cut just about anything else, recruiter hits most of your deck and is repeatable.
All the graveyard hate running around you can get around by switching to toolbox/midrange or combo over trying to aggro folks out. There have been times where ive had to kiki jiki value and had to grind out a player with a rest in peace out
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I honestly don’t care much about classification... I just wanna play the best possible version of the deck and if that means playing hostage taker, well, it’s not a “stealy card” but just a VERY good card for the deck.
Marchesa was the first card that pushed me to build an edh deck and I’ve had very good results to the point that I think it’s among the top decks in the format that is not cEDH.
My way of playing is nowhere near dead, this deck still wrecks tables
Also no one should even be thinking about cutting recruiter, I'd cut just about anything else, recruiter hits most of your deck and is repeatable.
All the graveyard hate running around you can get around by switching to toolbox/midrange or combo over trying to aggro folks out. There have been times where ive had to kiki jiki value and had to grind out a player with a rest in peace out
Do you have an up-to-date list (or is the one on the primer accurate)?
For me, I feel like straight aggro is not a good strategy at an EDH table, so I like that your build is 4cmc heavy and toolbox-y.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Trying to make some changes from recent cards and noticing theres two cards I like that it seems like we never discussed.
Midnight Reaper - Its another Grim Haruspex. This one hurts us for the cards and isnt a wizard unfortunately but on the other hand its still an incredible effect for us and this one triggers on its own death which is big.
Etali, Primal Storm - I know, its a 6-drop. But it seems like it meets our criteria of "it better win the game if its gonna cost 6". A 6/6 that gives us the top card of every library for free on attack seems insanely strong in a deck full of haste effects. It is definitely unfortunate it has no evasion but still, pretty potent.
Trying to make some changes from recent cards and noticing theres two cards I like that it seems like we never discussed.
Midnight Reaper - Its another Grim Haruspex. This one hurts us for the cards and isnt a wizard unfortunately but on the other hand its still an incredible effect for us and this one triggers on its own death which is big.
Etali, Primal Storm - I know, its a 6-drop. But it seems like it meets our criteria of "it better win the game if its gonna cost 6". A 6/6 that gives us the top card of every library for free on attack seems insanely strong in a deck full of haste effects. It is definitely unfortunate it has no evasion but still, pretty potent.
Thoughts?
Etali doesn't need evasion since the trigger is on attacking instead of dealing combat damage.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Trying to make some changes from recent cards and noticing theres two cards I like that it seems like we never discussed.
Midnight Reaper - Its another Grim Haruspex. This one hurts us for the cards and isnt a wizard unfortunately but on the other hand its still an incredible effect for us and this one triggers on its own death which is big.
Etali, Primal Storm - I know, its a 6-drop. But it seems like it meets our criteria of "it better win the game if its gonna cost 6". A 6/6 that gives us the top card of every library for free on attack seems insanely strong in a deck full of haste effects. It is definitely unfortunate it has no evasion but still, pretty potent.
Thoughts?
Etali doesn't need evasion since the trigger is on attacking instead of dealing combat damage.
Yes I'm aware his trigger is on attack, he would be completely unplayable otherwise. Im lamenting lack of evasion because this deck wins by combat damage so i need my guys to hit my opponents, not get chump blocked.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I'm also hopeful that there might be a good red creature with Mentor to generate more counters.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
I never thought about Dawn of the Dead before but that's pretty neat. Pretty sure I have one sitting in a box somewhere, might try it out.
And I really like Judith, the Scourge Diva. I'll probably just cut Inalla, Archmage Ritualist. I gave her a shot, she's neat. It was cool copying a Dualcaster Mage. But I don't think she has enough of an immediate impact to warrant that mana cost.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
It’s a solid 1 drop, can generate its own protection, is a Wizard so it synergizes with Sage/Mimic, and most importantly is a solid card draw engine.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Perhaps instead I would cut Imperial Recruiter but that seems to be a mistake. I don't actively use its Tutor though I could setup an infinite with Sage of Fables/Metallic Mimic and Glen Elendra Archmage with Goblin Bombardment/Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat/Hissing Iguanar. There's lots of interchangeable parts, so I can easily set that up with Recruiter but I feel like my aggro plan suffers if I use the Recruiter to loop up a combo win. It's quite the pickle. The Recruiter fetches me one exact card per loop, while all my other three drop draw engines don't tutor but draw a lot more per loop than the Recruiter.
Plus I do want to use Judith, the Scourge Diva. I'm not sure if I would want to cut any of my pingers for her.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Reading stuff like this always makes my day. You wanna cut the best creature tutor in the deck for a 3 drop that maybe does something only if it attacks. You wanna also cut the best creature haste enabler in the grixis colors (Olivia) for benthic.
Biomancer is a very good card and has to be in the deck but for other reasons.
I’ve read that there are 2 ways Marchesa can be played: Tev’s and Rune’s. Rune’s way of playing marchesa is dead because of the mulligan: you can no longer play edh you used to with high curve on 4 because you mull for lands keeping few starters and rocks. That way of playing is gone for good.
Now about Tev’s idea... 80% of the cards he’s been testing have no sense in the deck BUT the general idea works: loads of drawing on cc2-3, lower curve shaving cc6+ and don’t go all in while stabilized.
I agree on Imperial Recruiter. That's always been one of the absolute best cards in the deck to me, I can't imagine ever cutting him for anything. Although I do get that a 3 mana 1/1 is really counter to Tev's traditional aggro strategy. His deck is definitely different from my own.
I don't like Olivia. I tried her and cut her a while ago. I rarely wanted to throw out a card for that effect. I play expecting my creatures to die repeatedly. If I manage to actually lose one then I just play another. None are really all that important by themselves, it's the card advantage over time that wins me the game. And I run real tight on land so I rarely have those to pitch. The idea of pitching a playable to temporarily protect one creature with a counter doesn't sit well with me at all.
As for the rest, I started with Rune's build and tweaked it over time to my liking. I ended up with something a bit less aggro and more controlling, its very much midrange. The change in the mulligan rule made very little difference to my ability to play the deck personally. Of course my group is strong but definitely not competitive level. Then again if you're trying to play competitive level EDH I have no idea why you'd pick marchesa. A creature based strategy centered around your commander is an inherently flawed strategy in a competitive legacy environment.
I will say that the influx of strong GY hate has made an impact on my ability to play midrange marchesa, much more so then the mulligan change. That's probably the strongest argument I personally have for switching to Tev's way of playing. Although personally I just made other decks and used marchesa less. You don't want to use the same deck too much within your playgroup anyway.
It's decently strong but I don't have that many insanely good win conditions and more hate cards affect you.
I think the card advantage choices getting better means that looting feels like less of a priority for all strategies.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Also no one should even be thinking about cutting recruiter, I'd cut just about anything else, recruiter hits most of your deck and is repeatable.
All the graveyard hate running around you can get around by switching to toolbox/midrange or combo over trying to aggro folks out. There have been times where ive had to kiki jiki value and had to grind out a player with a rest in peace out
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Marchesa was the first card that pushed me to build an edh deck and I’ve had very good results to the point that I think it’s among the top decks in the format that is not cEDH.
Do you have an up-to-date list (or is the one on the primer accurate)?
For me, I feel like straight aggro is not a good strategy at an EDH table, so I like that your build is 4cmc heavy and toolbox-y.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Midnight Reaper - Its another Grim Haruspex. This one hurts us for the cards and isnt a wizard unfortunately but on the other hand its still an incredible effect for us and this one triggers on its own death which is big.
Etali, Primal Storm - I know, its a 6-drop. But it seems like it meets our criteria of "it better win the game if its gonna cost 6". A 6/6 that gives us the top card of every library for free on attack seems insanely strong in a deck full of haste effects. It is definitely unfortunate it has no evasion but still, pretty potent.
Thoughts?
Etali doesn't need evasion since the trigger is on attacking instead of dealing combat damage.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Yes I'm aware his trigger is on attack, he would be completely unplayable otherwise. Im lamenting lack of evasion because this deck wins by combat damage so i need my guys to hit my opponents, not get chump blocked.