This deck has no removal, how do you deal with turn 2 Jin or Grave Titan backed up with Force of Will?
One option is play Misdirection, Pact of Negation, Flusterstorm.
Any thought of adding Surgical Extraction to deal with these things?
It's storm when you need it, an answer for these things when you need it.
I like this thread though, haven't seen storm get as much attention as it is getting now. I personally run a mono-blue storm list but the lack of tutors is killing me.
Hmm, could be good. It's perfect for storm and you can pay life for it which is good to me. Haha
I played a lot of storm in legacy and casual. Your worst match up is U/x control, Reanimator, Sneak and Show, and "fish" decks with lando and counter spells.
Grixis is easy mode, just don't make the deck too complicated. Storm is so easy, ramp, draw, tutors, 2-4 win conditions and some removal.
I play aggressively, so I don't slow roll anything. If you can go off on turn 4 with Ritual, mana rocks, rebuild, And Ad Naus with force back up. Go for it.
Oh, did I imply somewhere I was going to change to grixis?
I'm staying monoU, I'm just really jelly of those tutors, Will and Wheel of Fortune/PIF
Eye of the storm, you cannot have edh storm without it. Following it up with a time spiral seals the deal
If you do use eye, look for knowledge exploitation. It lets you cast every instant or sorcery in all of your opponents decks. I use it to great affect in my tibor and lumia storm.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
This deck has no removal, how do you deal with turn 2 Jin or Grave Titan backed up with Force of Will?
One option is play Misdirection, Pact of Negation, Flusterstorm.
If you are going to run very little removal - at least run Snuff Out/Contagion/Pyrokinesis, Slaughter Pact, Dismember, Diabolic Edict, and Toxic Deluge.
You need more free spells like Snap, Frantic Search, and potential as a meta call, Mogg Salvage.
Mogg Salvage should never miss, how many blue decks are in EDH?
\ Rebuild is a staple in Vintage Storm - it's good against mono-colour decks, and it beats U/x, it beats Stax. Great card to play in response to attempting to Storm, and it returns your Mana Crypt and Mana Vault to your hand so you don't take 4 damage on your next turn for a bigger Ad Naus.
Remember, if you study developed Vintage decks; your EDH storm deck will work. Storm is pretty darn hard in a meta filled with decks with 8-12 counters game two, so imagine all your games as if they've sideboard'd against Storm.
Pact and Frantic Search are already in there. But you are right, it is relatively light on removal. Snap is a solid suggestion. I think Into the Roil might be a good choice as well. Bounce is much better for storm then kill spells especially the lists that run 0 CMC creatures. If you end up not needing the spells for opponents you can use them on yourself to recycle and add to storm.
I think I'm going "sideboard" (basically keep them available if I see a need for them) Snap, Into the Roil and Boomerang.
If I start see a massive need for removal I can slot those in for various stuff. Snap and Roil seem good enough to be permanent additions but I want to test other things first.
I like Snap because it gives me mana back, what do you guys think of Drain Power?
..
Drain Power seems like a meta game choice. I play in groups were people tend to leave mana open so it could be good. At the same time that mana is usually open for counters or removal. So I'm going to force them into tapping it during the storm turn. In that case it might be nice to open with Drain.
Seems worth testing but I don't think it will be good except very early during the storm attempt.
I just played three 1v1 tests against my brothers Izzet control deck. Game one I stormed off turn 5. Game two I lost after being forced to Ad Nauseam (and whiffing) at an inopportune time so I could dodge Glen Elendra (cast in response to persist trigger after hitting her with grapeshot). Third game I stormed off around turn 8 or so.
I'm going to be getting 3 player tests in tonight.
Edit: got about 6 games in with a 3 player pod. Stormed off on turn 4 once against Krenko and an Izzet deck (can't remember if he was playing creature less Melek or Niv, Firemind that game).
Had two other games where I should have stormed off but made mistakes in tapping and card sequence.
A couple other games I started to storm to early and stalled out.
I think I was playing 32 lands and never had an issue with lands (except getting flooded once on an Ad Naus). So I think I might even be able to drop to 30 but 32 is almost certainly fine. Even taking two land hands I was okay. The two red decks I played had a fair amount of artifact removal (but no LD). And even getting hit by a fair amount of it I never felt mana screwed.
After my games Friday night I've made some significant changes and I've played out a bunch of goldfish test games and I feel like I'm stalling out a lot less now. I'm also figuring out what to tutor for in various situations.
I'll post an updated list soon, I'm on my iPad now and it can be a hassle to post deck lists on this device.
Snap is fine since it's a ritual with hightide. the 0 mana creatures are horrible they do nothing we don't care about free storm maybe I'm just forgetting it's easier to wiff without candelabra and imperial seal etc but I play the deck all the time I almost never wiff maybe 1 in 20 times I can't find a line after something like as Nausuam I can't remember the last time I wiffed once you play the deck a few times you will see. I had a game yesterday I thought I might wiff fur the first time in awhile I'll do a quick recap of that and post it and you can see where I'm currently at on mtgo and I'll explain better why I dislike some things and why I prefer jevala etc I think I have a game where I get a very bad hand and you can see how she's far better the first game watch as I grapeshot nekusar off the board post AN while taking swings seemingly wiff on the AN bhut then kill them all effortlessly you just need more practice
Snap is fine since it's a ritual with hightide. the 0 mana creatures are horrible they do nothing we don't care about free storm maybe I'm just forgetting it's easier to wiff without candelabra and imperial seal etc but I play the deck all the time I almost never wiff maybe 1 in 20 times I can't find a line after something like as Nausuam I can't remember the last time I wiffed once you play the deck a few times you will see. I had a game yesterday I thought I might wiff fur the first time in awhile I'll do a quick recap of that and post it and you can see where I'm currently at on mtgo and I'll explain better why I dislike some things and why I prefer jevala etc I think I have a game where I get a very bad hand and you can see how she's far better the first game watch as I grapeshot nekusar off the board post AN while taking swings seemingly wiff on the AN bhut then kill them all effortlessly you just need more practice
I agree, the 0 creatures are crap. They are part of the reason I was whiffing. The tests I've run since cutting them have gone very well. Adding things like Past in Flames and Reiterate make a huge difference. I really wish I had Candelabra and Seal.
Snap is fine since it's a ritual with hightide. the 0 mana creatures are horrible they do nothing we don't care about free storm maybe I'm just forgetting it's easier to wiff without candelabra and imperial seal etc but I play the deck all the time I almost never wiff maybe 1 in 20 times I can't find a line after something like as Nausuam I can't remember the last time I wiffed once you play the deck a few times you will see. I had a game yesterday I thought I might wiff fur the first time in awhile I'll do a quick recap of that and post it and you can see where I'm currently at on mtgo and I'll explain better why I dislike some things and why I prefer jevala etc I think I have a game where I get a very bad hand and you can see how she's far better the first game watch as I grapeshot nekusar off the board post AN while taking swings seemingly wiff on the AN bhut then kill them all effortlessly you just need more practice
I agree, the 0 creatures are crap. They are part of the reason I was whiffing. The tests I've run since cutting them have gone very well. Adding things like Past in Flames and Reiterate make a huge difference. I really wish I had Candelabra and Seal.
I just shot and started uploading 3 part over hour long deck tech with my current not from
Memory list and explain EVERY card choice but YouTube says like 600 minutes so maybe check it out Tommorrow I address and comment on everything you have said in this post and it's all highly accurate.
long and i would guess fairley boring but explains all current decklist choices the last video thats uploading has a sample game in it will post updates if i shoot some more live games happy hunting storm troopers
long and i would guess fairley boring but explains all current decklist choices the last video thats uploading has a sample game in it will post updates if i shoot some more live games happy hunting storm troopers
I'll definitely check this out later.
My current changes have made my version much more powerful and consistent but I'm a little worried that it's become a race to "infinitely" Reiterate my Turnabout. I purposely was trying to avoid stuff like this because I want to cast tons of different spells and I kind of enjoy the feeling of being out on a ledge as I start to try to storm off. I guess I'll just adjust how I pilot to avoid that combo except in super cutthroat games.
long and i would guess fairley boring but explains all current decklist choices the last video thats uploading has a sample game in it will post updates if i shoot some more live games happy hunting storm troopers
I watched #2, and I noticed you called me out on not knowing the top/key/future sight combo (seriously never seen it before) I like the add of REB, gives me a reason to track down a beta one, I have a beta BEB, but no reason to ever use it.
I didn't include the land base because it's pretty much identical to Mox's. Other then Urborg, I'm starting to think I'm not going to run any lands without a subtype. I'm running 32 total lands and in around 8 real games and 20+ gold fishing games I've never had a land issue. I think I might try going down to 30.
Didn't list a commander either because I plan for a little bit of a rotation there since I do play with weekly groups and I don't want to much meta gaming against me.
Love Bubbling Muck. I think you guys should give it more of a chance. Especially if you have the Rakdos duals and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in your mana base.
I also love Helm of Awakening. It has the chance to help opponents but it almost always benefits me more. However, I would replace it with Candelabra if I could.
No your list is good it's close to identical to mine I even tested thief and it's good option for instant win combo at mana barrier 4 it's faster line than ad Nausuam with a wheel I don't use it online until I get twister for higher odds of hit. Helm I have tested it amazing but I'm not the only storm player in my meta so it's fairly bad phase 1 for me but your list looks very good.
If you have Hurkyl's Recall to return all your artifacts to your own hand, might as well go with retract.
When I played my Oloro Storm deck, I found that by the time my stormturn began I only needed to return my own artifacts. This was typically turn 4/5.
On other terms it might be Hurkyl's Recall #2 to get even a higher stormcount.
Retract looks like a nice option. Maybe better for me then Chain of Vapor, which I tend to only use on my own 0-1 cost permanents.
No your list is good it's close to identical to mine I even tested thief and it's good option for instant win combo at mana barrier 4 it's faster line than ad Nausuam with a wheel I don't use it online until I get twister for higher odds of hit. Helm I have tested it amazing but I'm not the only storm player in my meta so it's fairly bad phase 1 for me but your list looks very good.
Thank you. I gutted much of my Oloro Ad Naus deck to build this. I've moved that deck back towards the slow control it used to be.
Changing my list little by little, got rid of the 0 drop creatures, will probably add another rock or two. Since power 9 is specifically banned in my tournament, I will not be adding Timetwister, but still working on the few cards I have not picked up yet due to budget.
In my 2 games last night, I scooped game 1 to a misplay on my end, I did not notice a Muddle the Mixture in my Mind's Desire rack, and scooped after I got countered on my kill card. Still learning how to play the deck though, this was vs 3 other blue decks, I thought I didn't have a chance in this match-up, but this deck plays draw-go really well with all the counter back up. I would have won this had I not misplayed, but I got so confused on this game my playing was horrible.
Game 2, only one blue player, started out with a 14 storm Mind's Desire, everyone elected to not respond to see how the deck worked, so win by demonstration?
Even without some of the big money cards you guys are running, I am still doing fine, just need to get better at it.
Meh it's ok I guess I wouldn't run it way to many other things I don't run that I would run first. Before I left fur vacation I was grinding this deck but I couldn't find anyone good online so they were all blowouts I got bored of gold fishing fairly fast the decks too good against random noobs.
Oh, did I imply somewhere I was going to change to grixis?
I'm staying monoU, I'm just really jelly of those tutors, Will and Wheel of Fortune/PIF
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
If you do use eye, look for knowledge exploitation. It lets you cast every instant or sorcery in all of your opponents decks. I use it to great affect in my tibor and lumia storm.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Pact and Frantic Search are already in there. But you are right, it is relatively light on removal. Snap is a solid suggestion. I think Into the Roil might be a good choice as well. Bounce is much better for storm then kill spells especially the lists that run 0 CMC creatures. If you end up not needing the spells for opponents you can use them on yourself to recycle and add to storm.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I think I'm going "sideboard" (basically keep them available if I see a need for them) Snap, Into the Roil and Boomerang.
If I start see a massive need for removal I can slot those in for various stuff. Snap and Roil seem good enough to be permanent additions but I want to test other things first.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Drain Power seems like a meta game choice. I play in groups were people tend to leave mana open so it could be good. At the same time that mana is usually open for counters or removal. So I'm going to force them into tapping it during the storm turn. In that case it might be nice to open with Drain.
Seems worth testing but I don't think it will be good except very early during the storm attempt.
I just played three 1v1 tests against my brothers Izzet control deck. Game one I stormed off turn 5. Game two I lost after being forced to Ad Nauseam (and whiffing) at an inopportune time so I could dodge Glen Elendra (cast in response to persist trigger after hitting her with grapeshot). Third game I stormed off around turn 8 or so.
I'm going to be getting 3 player tests in tonight.
Edit: got about 6 games in with a 3 player pod. Stormed off on turn 4 once against Krenko and an Izzet deck (can't remember if he was playing creature less Melek or Niv, Firemind that game).
Had two other games where I should have stormed off but made mistakes in tapping and card sequence.
A couple other games I started to storm to early and stalled out.
Notion Thief is must run.
I wasn't particularly happy with Brain Freeze, Culling the Weak, Rain of Filth, Blood Pet, or any of the 0 CMC creatures (though I may keep Shield Sphere). I was still missing Future Sight and Snapcaster Mage so those will slot in for some of the disappointing cards. Past in Flames, Intuition, Gamble, Shred Memory and Helm of Awakening will probably be going in as well.
I think I was playing 32 lands and never had an issue with lands (except getting flooded once on an Ad Naus). So I think I might even be able to drop to 30 but 32 is almost certainly fine. Even taking two land hands I was okay. The two red decks I played had a fair amount of artifact removal (but no LD). And even getting hit by a fair amount of it I never felt mana screwed.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I'll post an updated list soon, I'm on my iPad now and it can be a hassle to post deck lists on this device.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I agree, the 0 creatures are crap. They are part of the reason I was whiffing. The tests I've run since cutting them have gone very well. Adding things like Past in Flames and Reiterate make a huge difference. I really wish I had Candelabra and Seal.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I just shot and started uploading 3 part over hour long deck tech with my current not from
Memory list and explain EVERY card choice but YouTube says like 600 minutes so maybe check it out Tommorrow I address and comment on everything you have said in this post and it's all highly accurate.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Deck tech video part 2 35 minutes http://youtu.be/xNuJnwIJV08
Deck tech video part 3 17 minutes still uploading for next 3-4 hours http://youtu.be/-WzrXFlaE-0
long and i would guess fairley boring but explains all current decklist choices the last video thats uploading has a sample game in it will post updates if i shoot some more live games happy hunting storm troopers
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I'll definitely check this out later.
My current changes have made my version much more powerful and consistent but I'm a little worried that it's become a race to "infinitely" Reiterate my Turnabout. I purposely was trying to avoid stuff like this because I want to cast tons of different spells and I kind of enjoy the feeling of being out on a ledge as I start to try to storm off. I guess I'll just adjust how I pilot to avoid that combo except in super cutthroat games.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I watched #2, and I noticed you called me out on not knowing the top/key/future sight combo (seriously never seen it before) I like the add of REB, gives me a reason to track down a beta one, I have a beta BEB, but no reason to ever use it.
Will you get a chance to play some games with it?
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Opal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Pact of Negation
CMC 1 (20):
1 Bubbling Muck
1 High Tide
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Voltaic Key
1 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Peek
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Preordain
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
1 Winds of Change
1 Impulse
1 Dark Confidant
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Izzet Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Snap
1 Into the Roil
1 Mana Drain
1 Counterspell
1 Remand
1 Grapeshot
CMC 3 (9):
1 Reiterate
1 Windfall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Grim Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Frantic Search
1 Seething Song
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Notion Thief
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Turnabout
1 Fact or Fiction
CMC 5 (4):
1 Force of Will
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Future Sight
1 Ad Nauseam
CMC 6 (3):
1 Time Spiral
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Mind's Desire
I didn't include the land base because it's pretty much identical to Mox's. Other then Urborg, I'm starting to think I'm not going to run any lands without a subtype. I'm running 32 total lands and in around 8 real games and 20+ gold fishing games I've never had a land issue. I think I might try going down to 30.
Didn't list a commander either because I plan for a little bit of a rotation there since I do play with weekly groups and I don't want to much meta gaming against me.
Rakdos Signet will probably become a Goblin Electromancer.
Love Bubbling Muck. I think you guys should give it more of a chance. Especially if you have the Rakdos duals and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in your mana base.
I also love Helm of Awakening. It has the chance to help opponents but it almost always benefits me more. However, I would replace it with Candelabra if I could.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Retract looks like a nice option. Maybe better for me then Chain of Vapor, which I tend to only use on my own 0-1 cost permanents.
Thank you. I gutted much of my Oloro Ad Naus deck to build this. I've moved that deck back towards the slow control it used to be.
Do you think I could get away with 30 lands?
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
In my 2 games last night, I scooped game 1 to a misplay on my end, I did not notice a Muddle the Mixture in my Mind's Desire rack, and scooped after I got countered on my kill card. Still learning how to play the deck though, this was vs 3 other blue decks, I thought I didn't have a chance in this match-up, but this deck plays draw-go really well with all the counter back up. I would have won this had I not misplayed, but I got so confused on this game my playing was horrible.
Game 2, only one blue player, started out with a 14 storm Mind's Desire, everyone elected to not respond to see how the deck worked, so win by demonstration?
Even without some of the big money cards you guys are running, I am still doing fine, just need to get better at it.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
3 CMC isn't bad. And the +1 and -2 can both be relevant during a storm attempt.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort