I think gifts at its best is used as a combo enabler rather than just a random tutor.
Protean Hulk is likely not going to be as effective when you dont have access to white for lark combos.
Overall, the list looks ok but the cards that are banned in my mind are banned because of their potential when a deck is built directly for them rather than trying to combine all of them at the same time. My suggestion would be that rather than trying to try them all at the same time, perhaps try a deck for each one specifically. Its obviously more time consuming but I think there is a lot of arguments to be made for banlist cards when they aren't being abused to their fullest.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Only played two games last night. First game I got Recurring Nightmare out but an opposing Stonecloaker sucked, and game two I didn't see any banned cards (although I took three Time Warps in a row with Regrowth and E-Wit).
I think gifts at its best is used as a combo enabler rather than just a random tutor.
Protean Hulk is likely not going to be as effective when you dont have access to white for lark combos.
Overall, the list looks ok but the cards that are banned in my mind are banned because of their potential when a deck is built directly for them rather than trying to combine all of them at the same time. My suggestion would be that rather than trying to try them all at the same time, perhaps try a deck for each one specifically. Its obviously more time consuming but I think there is a lot of arguments to be made for banlist cards when they aren't being abused to their fullest.
Well yeah, when I'm trying to use a card to its potential of course I will be able to easily see how bad it is. The point of this experiment is to validate what I believe to be NWO philosophy from the Rules Committee, namely that a combo card has to be powerful in its own regard as well. (Note that I am making my own progression of reason, not going off of anything they said). Look at Lion's Eye Diamond, Worldgorger Dragon, Hermit Druid, or Ad Nauseam. These cards rarely see play when not being used solely to win off of them, with the minor exception of Hermit Druid.
The cards I'm running are all cards that frequently come up in the BL thread, and the usual counter-argument for why they remain banned is that even when you are using them fairly, they are still powerful. Since I'm one of the ones that say that, I think it's about time I put my money where my mouth is - literally. I actually didn't own any of these cards, so I bought them all in the off-chance they are one day unbanned, and to try this deck.
This seems interesting. Comments on specific banned cards:
Griselbrand - This guy is really and truly busted, no matter what. I had a deck that had a 50% turn 3 reanimation rate on him, and it won every single game where I could get him to make an appearance. Protean Hulk - No hulk-abusers like Body Double, Phyrexian Delver, or Volrath's Shapeshifter mean that this guy is probably fine. I'm not even sure he's good enough here. Recurring Nightmare - Against good players, this card is only okay. Graveyard hate, spot removal, mass removal, hand disruption, and similar make it not as huge threat even without countermagic. Library of Alexandria - I still have never seen this activate in my Cube. Gifts Ungiven - seems dangerous here because you can use it as an EOT Buried Alive to set up a Mimeo combo, but you're missing a lot of the good combo pieces like Triskelion so I think it's probably fine. I mean, except for the fact that you can always grab Griselbrand and 3 reanimation spells to guarantee a Grisel.
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This seems interesting. Comments on specific banned cards:
Griselbrand - This guy is really and truly busted, no matter what. I had a deck that had a 50% turn 3 reanimation rate on him, and it won every single game where I could get him to make an appearance. Protean Hulk - No hulk-abusers like Body Double, Phyrexian Delver, or Volrath's Shapeshifter mean that this guy is probably fine. I'm not even sure he's good enough here. Recurring Nightmare - Against good players, this card is only okay. Graveyard hate, spot removal, mass removal, hand disruption, and similar make it not as huge threat even without countermagic. Library of Alexandria - I still have never seen this activate in my Cube. Gifts Ungiven - seems dangerous here because you can use it as an EOT Buried Alive to set up a Mimeo combo, but you're missing a lot of the good combo pieces like Triskelion so I think it's probably fine. I mean, except for the fact that you can always grab Griselbrand and 3 reanimation spells to guarantee a Grisel.
Well I am running Body Double, but Delver would be a good add. What should I cut for it?
How do the purely mimeo targets work for you? (Stalker, agent) Do you ever find them to be dead cards? Also how has nightmare been for ya I'd love to run it.
Well I've only played two games so far. Nightmare was a good card but not impactful, and I just added the other two today, so I haven't tested them yet. One reason I made the sideboard was so I could play the deck in my league, so I'll get more time with it Tuesday.
Alright, and two tutors that don't get enough attention are insedious dreams and demonic collusion. They may be a little bit slower but the discard comes in handy.
Alright, and two tutors that don't get enough attention are insedious dreams and demonic collusion. They may be a little bit slower but the discard comes in handy.
I'd love to play Grislebrand, Recurring Nightmare, and Gifts in my Mimeoplasm deck. They would be abused since it moonlights as a LabMan/Hermit Druid combo deck.
Well I goldfished the deck a little more. What I'm finding is that even though the point of this experiment is to NOT go out of my way to abuse cards, Protean Hulk is very meh because I don't have much of a creature curve. Pretty much the first time I use him it's decent, but if I reanimate him for a second use, I'm not getting full value. What are some good 1-drops that would be solid in the deck even without Hulk?
I'm still puzzled why you don't run any sac outlets in this deck. Sure, you have Nightmare and Pod, but both are sorcery-speed only. Viscera Seer, Diamond Valley/Miren, the Moaning Well are all worth considering...
PS. I assume this was the deck you wanted comments on?
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Well I goldfished the deck a little more. What I'm finding is that even though the point of this experiment is to NOT go out of my way to abuse cards, Protean Hulk is very meh because I don't have much of a creature curve. Pretty much the first time I use him it's decent, but if I reanimate him for a second use, I'm not getting full value. What are some good 1-drops that would be solid in the deck even without Hulk?
I'm still puzzled why you don't run any sac outlets in this deck. Sure, you have Nightmare and Pod, but both are sorcery-speed only. Viscera Seer, Diamond Valley/Miren, the Moaning Well are all worth considering...
PS. I assume this was the deck you wanted comments on?
Yet another update to the deck list. Added Viscera Seer and a few other minor changes. Probably going to stick with this build until I have a chance to actually play it Tuesday. Keep the thoughts coming though, they're really helpful.
What no Fastbond I mean I don't know that you can ever call Fastbond fair but it's not like your decks jammed with tutors and draw 7s use dat ***** it's silly and not expensive.
1 The Mimeoplasm
Lands
1 Command Tower
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Simic Growth Chamber
8 Forest
6 Island
5 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Halimar Depths
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Verdant Catacombs
Artifacts
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
2 Dimir Signet
2 Golgari Signet
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Simic Signet
3 Mimic Vat
3 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Birthing Pod
2 Hermit Druid
2 Invisible Stalker
2 Nether Traitor
2 Riftsweeper
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Burnished Hart
3 Eternal Witness
3 Farhaven Elf
3 Yavimaya Elder
3 Wood Elves
4 Mystic Snake
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Acidic Slime
5 Body Double
5 Consuming Aberration
5 Lord of Extinction
5 Mulldrifter
5 Phyrexian Delver
5 Prophet of Kruphix
5 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
6 Deadeye Navigator
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
6 Prime Speaker Zegana
7 Chancellor of the Spires
7 Pelakka Wurm
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
8 Kederekt Leviathan
8 Woodfall Primus
2 Animate Dead
2 Compulsion
3 Necromancy
3 Phyrexian Arena
Instants
1 Brainstorm
1 Entomb
2 Deglamer
2 Flash
3 Forbid
3 Frantic Search
3 Intuition
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Foil
Sorceries
1 Reanimate
2 Explore
2 Nature's Lore
2 Regrowth
3 Buried Alive
3 Kodama's Reach
5 Time Warp
7 Boundless Realms
7 Tooth and Nail
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I've already had plenty of interaction with them. I want to test cards that I haven't used. Besides, at $20, I sold all my Prime Times.
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Protean Hulk is likely not going to be as effective when you dont have access to white for lark combos.
Overall, the list looks ok but the cards that are banned in my mind are banned because of their potential when a deck is built directly for them rather than trying to combine all of them at the same time. My suggestion would be that rather than trying to try them all at the same time, perhaps try a deck for each one specifically. Its obviously more time consuming but I think there is a lot of arguments to be made for banlist cards when they aren't being abused to their fullest.
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Only played two games last night. First game I got Recurring Nightmare out but an opposing Stonecloaker sucked, and game two I didn't see any banned cards (although I took three Time Warps in a row with Regrowth and E-Wit).
Well yeah, when I'm trying to use a card to its potential of course I will be able to easily see how bad it is. The point of this experiment is to validate what I believe to be NWO philosophy from the Rules Committee, namely that a combo card has to be powerful in its own regard as well. (Note that I am making my own progression of reason, not going off of anything they said). Look at Lion's Eye Diamond, Worldgorger Dragon, Hermit Druid, or Ad Nauseam. These cards rarely see play when not being used solely to win off of them, with the minor exception of Hermit Druid.
The cards I'm running are all cards that frequently come up in the BL thread, and the usual counter-argument for why they remain banned is that even when you are using them fairly, they are still powerful. Since I'm one of the ones that say that, I think it's about time I put my money where my mouth is - literally. I actually didn't own any of these cards, so I bought them all in the off-chance they are one day unbanned, and to try this deck.
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Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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Griselbrand - This guy is really and truly busted, no matter what. I had a deck that had a 50% turn 3 reanimation rate on him, and it won every single game where I could get him to make an appearance.
Protean Hulk - No hulk-abusers like Body Double, Phyrexian Delver, or Volrath's Shapeshifter mean that this guy is probably fine. I'm not even sure he's good enough here.
Recurring Nightmare - Against good players, this card is only okay. Graveyard hate, spot removal, mass removal, hand disruption, and similar make it not as huge threat even without countermagic.
Library of Alexandria - I still have never seen this activate in my Cube.
Gifts Ungiven - seems dangerous here because you can use it as an EOT Buried Alive to set up a Mimeo combo, but you're missing a lot of the good combo pieces like Triskelion so I think it's probably fine. I mean, except for the fact that you can always grab Griselbrand and 3 reanimation spells to guarantee a Grisel.
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Well I am running Body Double, but Delver would be a good add. What should I cut for it?
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Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
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Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
I'm also trying for a Necrotic Ooze package.
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PS. I assume this was the deck you wanted comments on?
Deathrite drains, ramps the life gain may help.
Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
Yes. What sac outlets would you suggest?
Don't own
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Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
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BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
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Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429