Change Log:
+ Living Death, -Ob Nixillis, Unshackled
Reasoning: Ob Nixillis, Unshackled just didn't perform the way I'd hoped. I picked up a FTV: Annihilation, loved the new art on Living Death, and also realized it's a great card. Did some testing with it this past weekend, it performed very well.
+Insidious Dreams, -Increasing Ambition
Reasoning: Increasing Ambition was fine as a tutor, and I occasionally flashed it back, but at sorcery speed at its high cost, I was always a target after tutoring. Insidious Dreams is instant speed, allows me to craft my yard and tutor up cards that will have good interactions with my yard. I'm very excited to see how it performs.
Considering adding another trample/evasion enabler for my commander. A second copy of Loxodon Warhammer would be ideal, but alas... I'm considering adding another sword of x and y, maybe Sword of Feast and Famine, but I'm wondering if there's another equipment that would work. Maybe Whispersilk Cloak? Although that's a bit narrow if I can't get my general online. Any thoughts?
Change Log
4/11/15
+Sidisi, Undead Vizier
-Diabolic Tutor
Why: As far as tutors go, Sidisi is only one more to cast, but can potentially leave a relevant body behind, or can be cast without the exploit if I'm in a pinch for a body on the field. I expect to enjoy the versatility of Sidisi much more than Diabolic Tutor.
Note: I'm still playing this deck a lot. It's still my favorite EDH deck to play currently. I did attend GP Cleveland the weekend of March 13, and I bought a few zombie tokens illustrated (and then signed) by Aaron Miller, who was very nice to boot. Love the new flavor!
So, I hope it's ok to post this link here: (removed until I know if it's real or fake)
2 major changes coming with the Origins set (July 2015) - the return of mana burn, and mana pools won't empty until cleanup step.
How does this affect this deck? I think this makes Black Market a liability, and I will likely replace it when this change drops. Anyone else see any changes that will need to happen as a result of these changes?
Change Log: 4/25/15
+Sword of Feast and Famine
-Liliana's Reaver
Why: My commander needs to get through more often, and swords are an easy way to accomplish that. In addition, Sword of Feast and Famine is probably the most powerful sword in commander, and the land untap will be helpful. Liliana's Reaver was a solid beater, but that's all he was - a beater.
Currently testing out Risen Executioner in place of Black Market. Black Market is good, but it's pretty slow, I'll probably keep it high on my priority list to put back in, but Risen Executioner looks pretty fun, and the ability to recur is extremely powerful (as we can see with Gravecrawler).
Well, Risen Executioner has been tested, and he's definitely keeping a permanent spot. A recurring zombie, even expensive, is invaluable.
We're knee-deep in the Origins spoilers, and I'm now considering the new Liliana creature/walker in this deck. She's low on the curve, massive upside, easily recurrable. My biggest problem, of course, is that she isn't a zombie herself; however, I believe her PW abilities might find a home in this deck regardless. Thoughts?
I skimmed through this thread because I was contemplating doing a aggro token tresserhorn route and really liked your build even though it doesn't fit my criteria as I'm looking at trying to build a semi-tiny leader deck with him and hope to keep all of the cards at a converted mana cost of 4 or under.
However I do have a few suggestions for your build; when reading this thread I didn't see Zombie Apocalypse mentioned so I thought I'd throw it out there because of its flavor and its ability to randomly hose human tribal. I know you discussed not liking cards that give you a bunch of tapped zombies, but there are a few cards you could run to prevent this, Amulet of Vigor has the benefit of also untapping your tap lands, but the one I'd really suggest you try out is Intruder Alarm because it will keep untapping all of your zombies and since you have a ton of deathtouch going on I think that it will serve you much better than the amulet.
I would also suggest you throw Zombie Master back in if you do run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. The Oracle text for Tresserhorn's creature type says he's a zombie and whenever you have even the possibility of an easy and cheap way of giving your general swampwalk and playing urborg, then I think you should definitely do it. Think about it this way Urborg + Master + Fireshrieker + Tresserhorn = 20 unblockable general damage. All you need is one more lord zombie out to pump your commander and push the damage past the 21 threshold.
I'm not a Tresserhorn player, so I can't say for certain it'll fit, but have you tried Tombstone Stairwell? It's somewhat of a pet card of mine, so I tend to recommend it to everyone, but if you've got cards to take advantage of etb/dies triggers (Purphoros, God of the Forge, Blood Artist, Black Market, Grave Pact etc.) and/or useful sacrifice effects, then even with relatively small graveyards it can really stack up. I find it's not uncommon to get 10+ Blood Artist triggers on each players' turn. Throw in your zombie lords and you can probably get use of the Tombspawn attacking on your turns as a bonus.
Last time I ran him was a grixis good stuff, but many games were won by general damage.
I would highly suggest including Cathedral of War as an enabler for a 2-hit kill with Lord. My deck didn't run many lord effects past this and Caged Sun, but the small +1 boost in power saves an entire combat step. Rogue's Passage and Cathedral of War along with a control shell makes for a very dangerous combination with a 10-power general.
Hi Macabre, thanks for your input!
I enjoy Cathedral of War in some decks, but in this deck, to be honest, Lord of Tresserhorn damage rarely wins me the game. He's usually dealt with very quickly, so I have to present multiple angles of attack. Just about all other creatures in my deck are geared towards swarming my opponent in zombies, so unfortunately the cathedral would only be good using one angle of attack (Commander damage). I'm not sure the loss of colored sources of land would justify its inclusion.
I'm not a Tresserhorn player, so I can't say for certain it'll fit, but have you tried Tombstone Stairwell? It's somewhat of a pet card of mine, so I tend to recommend it to everyone, but if you've got cards to take advantage of etb/dies triggers (Purphoros, God of the Forge, Blood Artist, Black Market, Grave Pact etc.) and/or useful sacrifice effects, then even with relatively small graveyards it can really stack up. I find it's not uncommon to get 10+ Blood Artist triggers on each players' turn. Throw in your zombie lords and you can probably get use of the Tombspawn attacking on your turns as a bonus.
They PhroX! Yes, I've definitely taken a look at Tombstone Stairwell, and although I haven't tested it, I have been in a game against it (opponent was playing Ghoulcaller Gisa) and it was sick. I keep forgetting to test it out, but I'm glad you mentioned it, as I'll be looking to test it once I obtain a copy of it.
I skimmed through this thread because I was contemplating doing a aggro token tresserhorn route and really liked your build even though it doesn't fit my criteria as I'm looking at trying to build a semi-tiny leader deck with him and hope to keep all of the cards at a converted mana cost of 4 or under.
However I do have a few suggestions for your build; when reading this thread I didn't see Zombie Apocalypse mentioned so I thought I'd throw it out there because of its flavor and its ability to randomly hose human tribal. I know you discussed not liking cards that give you a bunch of tapped zombies, but there are a few cards you could run to prevent this, Amulet of Vigor has the benefit of also untapping your tap lands, but the one I'd really suggest you try out is Intruder Alarm because it will keep untapping all of your zombies and since you have a ton of deathtouch going on I think that it will serve you much better than the amulet.
I would also suggest you throw Zombie Master back in if you do run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. The Oracle text for Tresserhorn's creature type says he's a zombie and whenever you have even the possibility of an easy and cheap way of giving your general swampwalk and playing urborg, then I think you should definitely do it. Think about it this way Urborg + Master + Fireshrieker + Tresserhorn = 20 unblockable general damage. All you need is one more lord zombie out to pump your commander and push the damage past the 21 threshold.
Hey DarklingScribe! Zombie Apocalypse is a pretty good idea, I just don't know what I would cut for it. Unfortunately it's not a boardwipe, so I don't have that going for me if I use it. The return all zombies is pretty good, but only conditionally so. My concern is that even if I successfully landed this spell, I would be wide open to the whole table before I even got to untap.
As to Zombie Master, I agree that he probably warrants a slot. He's dangerous though, as any of my zombies could be stolen and I'd be giving them free damage. I really wish he read "all zombies YOU CONTROL", but he's probably worth a spot regardless.
Creature theft can be a problem, but you have a number of sacrifice outlets in this deck as well as plenty of recurrsion so my initial response would be to just sacrifice zombie master when he starts to become a liability and maybe also add Homeward Path if theft effects are really pervasive in your meta. My meta is very blue heavy at the moment, so for me Path has been a card I automatically include in just about every deck I play.
I do wish that WOTC would print a card like Mind Bend that would make the universal buffs granted by older cards only apply to that card's owner. Something like "Change the text on target permanent by replacing all instances of 'All' with 'Target player's'."
Two more impressive spoils that might make it into the deck: Languish and Dark Petition.
You are not even playing Grim Tutor, I hardly say how Dark Petition could make the list (except if you are on a budget but I saw a [Competitive] tag along the thread title and your deck doesn't seem cheap).
Even Diabolic Tutor. The fact that you have to wait until you get to 5 lands to cast this is awful. Then, it can get countered. Increasing Ambition is probably better (while still bad). I play mono-black and I don't even go that deep into tutoring... and you have blue, I don't see Fabricate although it's an excellent card, Muddle the Mixture and Mystical Tutor both gets Demonic Tutor, and so on... Dark Petition is a good 20th tutor if you play that much.
Languish... well, you already have Toxic Deluge and Mutilate doesn't work really well in multicolored decks, so that could work if you expect a lot of creatures with low thoughness in your meta. It has its pros and cons with Damnation, but I don't really see any benefit running Languish with a 4 toughness general. Maybe a wrath that allows you to use the regenerate ability on your general would be good. Crux of Fate is one.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
The problem with most of the tutors you listed, and even some of the ones in my list, is the loss of tempo. This deck usually hits hard and fast, so the reason Dark Petition is appealing is that I could play it and not lose tempo. Petition into Torpor Orb, Loxodon Warhammer, Oblivion Stone, Phyrexian Arena, Toxic Deluge, or 3B towards Grave Pact are all incredible plays for me on turn 5, depending on the situation. I agree a 5cmc tutor at sorcery speed is bad, but you did not note the spell mastery at all, which I think makes it at least worthy of an in-depth look.
Languish would definitely be a meta call. I currently play against a lot of Nekusar, Karador, Animar, and Derevi, so this might be a decent meta call.
Well Grim Tutor hardly loses any tempo... it's just more efficient, you play it on turn 3, and turn 4 your 4-drop. Or on turn 5, this + Torpor Orb still works... it's just plain better.
I did note the spell mastery thing, which still makes it strictly worse than Demonic Tutor, 95% of the times worse than any 3-cmc tutor (Grim Tutor) and sometimes better than Diabolic Tutor (if you don't mind not tutoring early on, which I personally do, since it's really important to set you up for the mid to late game).
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I'm considering trying out Sudden Spoiling in place of another removal card, perhaps Terminate. I never really thought about the card (mostly because I thought it was TARGET creature, not all creatures a player controls...), but a user on a random thread in these forums was talking about it and it sounds useful. Anyone have any experience with the card? I feel like it will never be a dead draw.
Hi all! Been busy with standard brewing with BFZ and a side project (a pauper EDH deck, it's fun!), but this deck is still alive and well. I played in 6 prerelease events this weekend and figured it was time to brainstorm some possible changes to the deck with the inclusion of BFZ. Below are cards that I think at least warrant a look for this deck:
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: Unfortunately, Zendikar does not have zombies. They have vampires. If I were to consider diluting my zombie theme, she'd probably be my only choice. She could pump my entire zombie horde during first strike damage step, and that's cool. She also flies, which very little of my deck does. However, I still think she does not have enough synergy with my deck to make the cut. She's definitely a cool card, though.
Void Winnower: I want to use this card in an EDH deck SO BADLY. I don't think this is the deck for her, but I'm looking forward to dropping her somewhere.
Ob Nixilis Reignited: Yes. He is awesome. I will definitely be testing him out, and I already know the spot I'm going to test him in (in place of the KarnFather).
Zulaport Cutthroat: I wish he was a zombie. I already run Blood Artist, which is not on-theme for zombies, but he triggers for ALL creatures, not just ones I control. I cannot justify another spot for a bleeder effect that is weaker than one I already run and not on-theme. So close.
Vampiric Rites: The only auto-include in the set. This thing is amazing and I can't wait to try it out.
Fathom Feeder: Meh. An early threat and a late game source of card advantage. We have better stuff that is on-theme.
Sire of Stagnation: Much better than meh. He's off-theme but I might try him out anyway. I think the punisher idea behind him, and I'd love the cards he can draw.
Blighted Fen: The only blighted land worth a look. It's pretty good, but I do not think it's worth a slot since it cannot produce black mana.
Mortuary Mire: A possible include, I like that it produces black mana and we generally have a dude to recur. I might test this one.
The tangolands: I think these are worth including, especially if I up my basic land count, which I am considering.
Did I miss anything? What are your thoughts on these cards? And if I include them, what would you cut for them? I appreciate your feedback!
First, great choice on the Commander. Lord of Tresserhorn is my absolute favorite card in MtG and Commander. I have spent 6+ years on my version of Lord of Tresserhorn trying to make it as strong and thematic as possible that "feels" like a Lord of Tresserhorn deck (it can easily be turned into a Kresh deck which I want to avoid), so I have a lot of advice here. LoT is a open ended Commander that has so many different things going on with him. Most players just see his EtB trigger, and think he is trash, which is so not the case. There is so many great things you can do with LoT.
Your deck is a good version of LoT, but I would recommend having it be less random goodstuffy cards and focusing on the Commander himself. LoT has a lot going on, and breaking down every part of LoT and taking a look at every thing LoT has potential to build with can make your deck more awesome and have every card work with itself synergistically and thematically all at the same time even without using tutors. And when I mean breaking down every single aspect of the card I mean really breaking down every part of the card because LoT is very interesting.
Let's start with his name, (yes his name) Lord of Tresserhorn. For "Lord", you can put all of the Zombie lords in MtG in the deck and they would all work very well giving LoT a +1 boost to power to do a two hit swing win. After putting the Lords in, look at their abilities - Death Baron works great with Deathbringer Thoctar which in turn works great with LoT's sacrifice two creatures trigger. Not to mention Deathbringer Thoctar is a zombie, which works great with Rooftop Storm, which also works with your zombie lords and LoT himself. It is this kind of universal deck synergy that makes it effective while being thematic, and playing with not overly powerful cards but having a good chance of winning while being completely fair. All of this is just for starters, there are other zombies with the name Lord in their name that work great with LoT. Dralnu, Lich Lord and Geth, Lord of the Vault are very good with LoT, Geth can steal creatures to steal for LoT and Dralnu can flashback signature cards like Tainted Strike as well as "donating" Dralnu to your opponent with another LoT signature card, Endless Whispers. Play Blasphemous Act and watch your opponent cry after sacrificing 13 permanents.
With "Tresserhorn" you can put in Tresserhorn Sinks, which is a fairly decent dual land that counts as snow. You could also include Frost Marsh and complete the cycle. There are some good snow activation cards like Mouth of Ronom. There is also Tresserhorn Skyknight, which isn't super great but it does count as a zombie and a Knight and is so awesome to cast off of Haakon, Stromgald Scourge who is also a zombie (and Haakon is also referenced in the flavor text of Tresserhorn Skynight, extra mega bonus rad points) that can be recast for free from Rooftop Storm, and with Haakon in play you have an unkillable 5/3 flying zombie knight that references both Haakon and Lord of Tresserhorn. If you put Haakon in the deck, you could include Nameless Inversion, which would machine gun your opponent's creatures. This in turn works with Lord of the Undead to return Nameless Inversion to your hand, which comes full circle to the Lord theme. There are other "Tresserhorn" cards, but I think those two are the main ones to focus on. So many possibilities with just looking at LoT's name alone.
Next is his mana cost - he is Grixis colors, which has many great options to work with that work with a synergistic zombie subtheme. Thraximundar, Sedris, the Traitor King, and Nekusar, the Mindrazer are all synergistic with Lord of Tresserhorn. It is awesome to use all of the Grixis zombies and have them all work together as if you were playing them individually as your commander. Thrax's sacrifice counters works great with LoT's EtB trigger, Sedris works great because you should be playing another LoT signature card Sundial of the Infinite, which also can lead into a "stifle" subtheme, and Nekusar works with Lord of Tresserhorn's force a player to draw 2. There are lots of other great Grixis options to play as well, but I think those are the most thematic and work best within the zombie subtheme.
Now let's look at the expansion - he is from Alliances, which is from the Ice Age block and story. You could add a "snow" subtheme and also add basics from Coldsnap or Ice Age. There are lots of Ice Age block cards that have cumulative upkeep that go with the "stifle" subtheme. Glacial Chasm is a good one to stifle, and "stifling" the trigger from Glacial Chasm with Eon Hub while hosing upkeep triggers opponents benefit from like Phyrexian Arena and such.
Now the biggie: Lord's triggered ability - You can utilize his sac triggers to your advantage with creature's with dying or leaves play triggers like Nevermaker or use Endless Whispers to make Lord of Tresserhorn kill himself and pass himself around the table. The 2 life loss can be a minor subtheme by using cards like Ancient Tomb that say you lose 2 life, and the force draw 2 is hilarious when used with Endless Whispers. The force draw 2 can be used with Notion Thief which also plays into Nekusar, so you could include Day's Undoing to make everyone discard their hands and you draw 28 (in a 4 player game). Day's Undoing is also a stifle/time stop card that is on theme as well. The best card with his trigger however, is Torpor Orb which hates on EtB triggers (which I can not stand in EDH, too much easy mode). There are too many options to mention here with all of his triggers, but this is a start of sorts to get you thinking of the possibilities.
His regenerate works great with sweepers that are damage based like the aforementioned Blasphemous Act (which again, works great against a donated Dralnu). This can also be a anti-EtB/pro-activated ability subtheme, where all of your creatures have nothing but static abilities or activated abilities as Torpor Orb + having your own EtB creature is a nombo.
For the other part of the card, there is the artist - Anson Maddocks. There are so many awesome Anson Maddocks cards he did the art for - you can do a artist subtheme with some of his cards that work with the other themes. Icy Prison is a good one, it works great with Trickbind as it can possibly permanently exile your opponent's Commander! There is also Animate Dead which is a all around good card and goes with a zombie subtheme as well. For the art of LoT himself, he is holding an axe - you could include axe cards but I found the axe cards available are way too weak.
And lastly, there is the main draw of LoT - his power. His 10 power can do one hit kills with Tainted Strike or Hatred as well as other power increasing cards. My favorite is Fatal Frenzy as it plays into the stifle theme of the deck. It works great with Sundial of the Infinite. With his 10 power and power doublers, you can use "power matters" cards like Ghoulcaller Gisa and make a crap ton of zombies. My personal techy favorite is Twisted Justice targeting yourself for a sort of Dimir version of Momentous Fall that can also be used as an edict against your opponent's Eldrazis and such for maximum hilarity.
So there you have it, and this is really just for starters. I could talk about all the possibilities with Lord of Tresserhorn decks for hours and hours. Hope this has helped in some way.
This is a competitive deck, so although I try to stay on theme when possible, I generally will pick the strongest cards for my deck. For that reasons, I do not stick completely with thematic cards or subthemes are are not optimal. I know you said that you think my deck would benefit from taking out "random goodstuff cards", but each of the cards in my deck is not at all random - each one plays to the strengths of the rest of the deck. And although Lord of Tresserhorn is powerful in some circumstances, I do not think that a competitive multiplayer EDH deck will perform well if you ALWAYS focus on him as the commander. What card/cards would you suggest cutting from my deck, and what card/cards would you replace them with?
That being said, I know you said you've had your deck for 6 years, do you mind sharing the list?
Looking to Commander 2015, here's a list of cards I might consider testing:
Dread Summons: It serves 2 purposes: putting dudes in the yard and makes tokens. Could be worth testing.
Scourge of Nel Toth: Flying is something this deck is weak against, so a big flying zombie caught my eye immediately. The self recursion is interesting, but it's very expensive. Probably too expensive for a big dumb beater, even if it has flying, but it's at least worthy of discussing.
Magus of the Wheel: The one card I'm definitely testing. Wheel of Fortune is one of the most powerful cards in the deck, and this gives me a slightly worse 2nd copy of it. Absolutely going in. Just wish it were a zombie.
Blade of Selves: This card is very powerful, and is probably worth discussing in most decks. It's not at its best in this deck, but still worthy of consideration.
Command Beacon: Probably not worth it in this deck, as Lord of Tresserhorn does not typically get so expensive that I can't afford to cast him.
+ Living Death, -Ob Nixillis, Unshackled
Reasoning: Ob Nixillis, Unshackled just didn't perform the way I'd hoped. I picked up a FTV: Annihilation, loved the new art on Living Death, and also realized it's a great card. Did some testing with it this past weekend, it performed very well.
+Insidious Dreams, -Increasing Ambition
Reasoning: Increasing Ambition was fine as a tutor, and I occasionally flashed it back, but at sorcery speed at its high cost, I was always a target after tutoring. Insidious Dreams is instant speed, allows me to craft my yard and tutor up cards that will have good interactions with my yard. I'm very excited to see how it performs.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCurrently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsBRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears4/11/15
+Sidisi, Undead Vizier
-Diabolic Tutor
Why: As far as tutors go, Sidisi is only one more to cast, but can potentially leave a relevant body behind, or can be cast without the exploit if I'm in a pinch for a body on the field. I expect to enjoy the versatility of Sidisi much more than Diabolic Tutor.
Note: I'm still playing this deck a lot. It's still my favorite EDH deck to play currently. I did attend GP Cleveland the weekend of March 13, and I bought a few zombie tokens illustrated (and then signed) by Aaron Miller, who was very nice to boot. Love the new flavor!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears2 major changes coming with the Origins set (July 2015) - the return of mana burn, and mana pools won't empty until cleanup step.
How does this affect this deck? I think this makes Black Market a liability, and I will likely replace it when this change drops. Anyone else see any changes that will need to happen as a result of these changes?
It was fake
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears+Sword of Feast and Famine
-Liliana's Reaver
Why: My commander needs to get through more often, and swords are an easy way to accomplish that. In addition, Sword of Feast and Famine is probably the most powerful sword in commander, and the land untap will be helpful. Liliana's Reaver was a solid beater, but that's all he was - a beater.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsA few people in my area have started playing Karador, Ghost Chieftain decks, I'm considering trying to find a spot for Nihil Spellbomb.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsWe're knee-deep in the Origins spoilers, and I'm now considering the new Liliana creature/walker in this deck. She's low on the curve, massive upside, easily recurrable. My biggest problem, of course, is that she isn't a zombie herself; however, I believe her PW abilities might find a home in this deck regardless. Thoughts?
Edit: Syntax
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsHowever I do have a few suggestions for your build; when reading this thread I didn't see Zombie Apocalypse mentioned so I thought I'd throw it out there because of its flavor and its ability to randomly hose human tribal. I know you discussed not liking cards that give you a bunch of tapped zombies, but there are a few cards you could run to prevent this, Amulet of Vigor has the benefit of also untapping your tap lands, but the one I'd really suggest you try out is Intruder Alarm because it will keep untapping all of your zombies and since you have a ton of deathtouch going on I think that it will serve you much better than the amulet.
I would also suggest you throw Zombie Master back in if you do run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. The Oracle text for Tresserhorn's creature type says he's a zombie and whenever you have even the possibility of an easy and cheap way of giving your general swampwalk and playing urborg, then I think you should definitely do it. Think about it this way Urborg + Master + Fireshrieker + Tresserhorn = 20 unblockable general damage. All you need is one more lord zombie out to pump your commander and push the damage past the 21 threshold.
Hi Macabre, thanks for your input!
I enjoy Cathedral of War in some decks, but in this deck, to be honest, Lord of Tresserhorn damage rarely wins me the game. He's usually dealt with very quickly, so I have to present multiple angles of attack. Just about all other creatures in my deck are geared towards swarming my opponent in zombies, so unfortunately the cathedral would only be good using one angle of attack (Commander damage). I'm not sure the loss of colored sources of land would justify its inclusion.
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[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
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Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsThey PhroX! Yes, I've definitely taken a look at Tombstone Stairwell, and although I haven't tested it, I have been in a game against it (opponent was playing Ghoulcaller Gisa) and it was sick. I keep forgetting to test it out, but I'm glad you mentioned it, as I'll be looking to test it once I obtain a copy of it.
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MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsHey DarklingScribe! Zombie Apocalypse is a pretty good idea, I just don't know what I would cut for it. Unfortunately it's not a boardwipe, so I don't have that going for me if I use it. The return all zombies is pretty good, but only conditionally so. My concern is that even if I successfully landed this spell, I would be wide open to the whole table before I even got to untap.
As to Zombie Master, I agree that he probably warrants a slot. He's dangerous though, as any of my zombies could be stolen and I'd be giving them free damage. I really wish he read "all zombies YOU CONTROL", but he's probably worth a spot regardless.
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MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI do wish that WOTC would print a card like Mind Bend that would make the universal buffs granted by older cards only apply to that card's owner. Something like "Change the text on target permanent by replacing all instances of 'All' with 'Target player's'."
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Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
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5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
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MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsYou are not even playing Grim Tutor, I hardly say how Dark Petition could make the list (except if you are on a budget but I saw a [Competitive] tag along the thread title and your deck doesn't seem cheap).
Even Diabolic Tutor. The fact that you have to wait until you get to 5 lands to cast this is awful. Then, it can get countered. Increasing Ambition is probably better (while still bad). I play mono-black and I don't even go that deep into tutoring... and you have blue, I don't see Fabricate although it's an excellent card, Muddle the Mixture and Mystical Tutor both gets Demonic Tutor, and so on... Dark Petition is a good 20th tutor if you play that much.
Languish... well, you already have Toxic Deluge and Mutilate doesn't work really well in multicolored decks, so that could work if you expect a lot of creatures with low thoughness in your meta. It has its pros and cons with Damnation, but I don't really see any benefit running Languish with a 4 toughness general. Maybe a wrath that allows you to use the regenerate ability on your general would be good. Crux of Fate is one.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Languish would definitely be a meta call. I currently play against a lot of Nekusar, Karador, Animar, and Derevi, so this might be a decent meta call.
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MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI did note the spell mastery thing, which still makes it strictly worse than Demonic Tutor, 95% of the times worse than any 3-cmc tutor (Grim Tutor) and sometimes better than Diabolic Tutor (if you don't mind not tutoring early on, which I personally do, since it's really important to set you up for the mid to late game).
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsDid I miss anything? What are your thoughts on these cards? And if I include them, what would you cut for them? I appreciate your feedback!
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[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsYour deck is a good version of LoT, but I would recommend having it be less random goodstuffy cards and focusing on the Commander himself. LoT has a lot going on, and breaking down every part of LoT and taking a look at every thing LoT has potential to build with can make your deck more awesome and have every card work with itself synergistically and thematically all at the same time even without using tutors. And when I mean breaking down every single aspect of the card I mean really breaking down every part of the card because LoT is very interesting.
Let's start with his name, (yes his name) Lord of Tresserhorn. For "Lord", you can put all of the Zombie lords in MtG in the deck and they would all work very well giving LoT a +1 boost to power to do a two hit swing win. After putting the Lords in, look at their abilities - Death Baron works great with Deathbringer Thoctar which in turn works great with LoT's sacrifice two creatures trigger. Not to mention Deathbringer Thoctar is a zombie, which works great with Rooftop Storm, which also works with your zombie lords and LoT himself. It is this kind of universal deck synergy that makes it effective while being thematic, and playing with not overly powerful cards but having a good chance of winning while being completely fair. All of this is just for starters, there are other zombies with the name Lord in their name that work great with LoT. Dralnu, Lich Lord and Geth, Lord of the Vault are very good with LoT, Geth can steal creatures to steal for LoT and Dralnu can flashback signature cards like Tainted Strike as well as "donating" Dralnu to your opponent with another LoT signature card, Endless Whispers. Play Blasphemous Act and watch your opponent cry after sacrificing 13 permanents.
With "Tresserhorn" you can put in Tresserhorn Sinks, which is a fairly decent dual land that counts as snow. You could also include Frost Marsh and complete the cycle. There are some good snow activation cards like Mouth of Ronom. There is also Tresserhorn Skyknight, which isn't super great but it does count as a zombie and a Knight and is so awesome to cast off of Haakon, Stromgald Scourge who is also a zombie (and Haakon is also referenced in the flavor text of Tresserhorn Skynight, extra mega bonus rad points) that can be recast for free from Rooftop Storm, and with Haakon in play you have an unkillable 5/3 flying zombie knight that references both Haakon and Lord of Tresserhorn. If you put Haakon in the deck, you could include Nameless Inversion, which would machine gun your opponent's creatures. This in turn works with Lord of the Undead to return Nameless Inversion to your hand, which comes full circle to the Lord theme. There are other "Tresserhorn" cards, but I think those two are the main ones to focus on. So many possibilities with just looking at LoT's name alone.
Next is his mana cost - he is Grixis colors, which has many great options to work with that work with a synergistic zombie subtheme. Thraximundar, Sedris, the Traitor King, and Nekusar, the Mindrazer are all synergistic with Lord of Tresserhorn. It is awesome to use all of the Grixis zombies and have them all work together as if you were playing them individually as your commander. Thrax's sacrifice counters works great with LoT's EtB trigger, Sedris works great because you should be playing another LoT signature card Sundial of the Infinite, which also can lead into a "stifle" subtheme, and Nekusar works with Lord of Tresserhorn's force a player to draw 2. There are lots of other great Grixis options to play as well, but I think those are the most thematic and work best within the zombie subtheme.
Now let's look at the expansion - he is from Alliances, which is from the Ice Age block and story. You could add a "snow" subtheme and also add basics from Coldsnap or Ice Age. There are lots of Ice Age block cards that have cumulative upkeep that go with the "stifle" subtheme. Glacial Chasm is a good one to stifle, and "stifling" the trigger from Glacial Chasm with Eon Hub while hosing upkeep triggers opponents benefit from like Phyrexian Arena and such.
Now the biggie: Lord's triggered ability - You can utilize his sac triggers to your advantage with creature's with dying or leaves play triggers like Nevermaker or use Endless Whispers to make Lord of Tresserhorn kill himself and pass himself around the table. The 2 life loss can be a minor subtheme by using cards like Ancient Tomb that say you lose 2 life, and the force draw 2 is hilarious when used with Endless Whispers. The force draw 2 can be used with Notion Thief which also plays into Nekusar, so you could include Day's Undoing to make everyone discard their hands and you draw 28 (in a 4 player game). Day's Undoing is also a stifle/time stop card that is on theme as well. The best card with his trigger however, is Torpor Orb which hates on EtB triggers (which I can not stand in EDH, too much easy mode). There are too many options to mention here with all of his triggers, but this is a start of sorts to get you thinking of the possibilities.
His regenerate works great with sweepers that are damage based like the aforementioned Blasphemous Act (which again, works great against a donated Dralnu). This can also be a anti-EtB/pro-activated ability subtheme, where all of your creatures have nothing but static abilities or activated abilities as Torpor Orb + having your own EtB creature is a nombo.
For the other part of the card, there is the artist - Anson Maddocks. There are so many awesome Anson Maddocks cards he did the art for - you can do a artist subtheme with some of his cards that work with the other themes. Icy Prison is a good one, it works great with Trickbind as it can possibly permanently exile your opponent's Commander! There is also Animate Dead which is a all around good card and goes with a zombie subtheme as well. For the art of LoT himself, he is holding an axe - you could include axe cards but I found the axe cards available are way too weak.
And lastly, there is the main draw of LoT - his power. His 10 power can do one hit kills with Tainted Strike or Hatred as well as other power increasing cards. My favorite is Fatal Frenzy as it plays into the stifle theme of the deck. It works great with Sundial of the Infinite. With his 10 power and power doublers, you can use "power matters" cards like Ghoulcaller Gisa and make a crap ton of zombies. My personal techy favorite is Twisted Justice targeting yourself for a sort of Dimir version of Momentous Fall that can also be used as an edict against your opponent's Eldrazis and such for maximum hilarity.
So there you have it, and this is really just for starters. I could talk about all the possibilities with Lord of Tresserhorn decks for hours and hours. Hope this has helped in some way.
This is a competitive deck, so although I try to stay on theme when possible, I generally will pick the strongest cards for my deck. For that reasons, I do not stick completely with thematic cards or subthemes are are not optimal. I know you said that you think my deck would benefit from taking out "random goodstuff cards", but each of the cards in my deck is not at all random - each one plays to the strengths of the rest of the deck. And although Lord of Tresserhorn is powerful in some circumstances, I do not think that a competitive multiplayer EDH deck will perform well if you ALWAYS focus on him as the commander. What card/cards would you suggest cutting from my deck, and what card/cards would you replace them with?
That being said, I know you said you've had your deck for 6 years, do you mind sharing the list?
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Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCurrently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsLooking to Commander 2015, here's a list of cards I might consider testing:
Did I miss anything you think should be tested?
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Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears