It might not be as optimal for your deck, but Garruk, Caller of Beasts was an absolute powerhouse for me last night (granted, I run 40 creatures). I got four activations and drew a total of 8 cards. He got swung into, so unfortunately I didn't get to ult him, but the last time I used his +1 I hit 5 lands, and basically scryed them away. It made for some seriously high quality draws. And if Venser's already on the board, you could drop a huge threat for free with Garruk's -3 and flicker him to reset his loyalty counters.
I've also been tossing around the idea of testing Parallax Wave. Seems like it could be a fun way to set up for a board wipe and to reuse ETBs en masse. What do you think?
EDIT: one last thought--what do you think of Body Double in place of Progenitor Mimic? I play in a Wrath-heavy meta, and I'm thinking Body Double might be a fun way to take advantage of loaded graveyards, not to mention being able to abuse the ETBs of my own dead dudes in the event I don't have access to recursion. Lastly, it serves as a backup catalyst for Reveillark/Mirror Entity/Venser, Shaper Savant combo shenanigans if I'm feeling cornered or just downright mean (haha).
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Spentbullets:
Yeah I had both Garruk, Caller of Beasts and Garruk, Wildspeaker, but I've since but them because in my meta, 'walkers simply do not survive. If things change in that regard, I might consider putting Caller back in.
I've also considered Parallax Wave since I just picked one up for my 1v1 edh deck (Geist of Saint Traft), but my concern is that it would be a 1-shot effect. I could get a similar effect with Ghostway which is easier on the mana curve and easier to recur/tutor for.
I have definitely considered Body Double, he'd be pretty great in my deck. From having played the deck, I've had a lot of ways to recur my creatures (Sun Titan, Reveillark, Eternal Witness, Angel of Serenity) so the yard issue isn't huge. The reason I like Progenitor Mimic is that when I land any of my board-stalling dudes (Spike Weaver, Glen Elendra Archmage) he becomes a soft board lock. Now that I own a Body Double though (thanks to the Jace v. Vraska deck, I may give him a try.
Robtheman: The issue I have with Void Stalker is that he ruins my tempo pretty hard. He will take up my 2-drop slot, do nothing, and then require 3 mana the next turn for an activation PLUS wanting a blink enabler out to be effective. I have more effective ways to take card of problematic creatures. The thought of tucking any general, though, seems pretty cool, so I'll definitely give it more thought.
Yeah, despite it being somewhat slow, I too have been running Progenitor Mimic with pretty good results. I decided to take out Lightning Greaves, which I felt wasn't doing enough work (I really only liked using it on Sun Titan), to make room for Body Double. Including Roon, this rounds out my creature count to a nice, clean 40.
I've got a quandary for you--I really want to add Champion of Lambholt and possibly Ephara, God of the Polis, but I'm at a complete loss as to what I should cut to make room for them. Without intending to hijack your thread, my creature base goes something like this:
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
The first cut I would make it Birds of Paradise. I loved the birds in my earliest iteration, but I eventually cut it because it's a do-nothing late-game draw, and I already had tons of other ramp. With just looking at this list, I can see Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, Coiling Oracle, Noble Hierarch, and Solemn Simulacrum. Assuming you have more ramp in the form of spells/rocks, I say cut the birds.
The second cut is harder. My choices would probably be Gaddock Teeg or Bane of Progress. I like Teeg, but I'm not positive that he belongs in this list, since he prevents you from casting over half (24 out of 40) of your own creatures cards, including your own commander. I understand you have ways to cheat creatures into play, but he seems like a standout there. I liked Bane in my original list, but with cheaper, recurrable creatures that can serve the same function (Harmonic Sliver, Qasali Pridemage, Acidic Slime, and I assume you run Aura Shards), I felt that he was not needed. Together with the fact that he hits your own enchantments and artifacts, and I would also consider him to be on the chopping block.
Edit: Pook and Pie pointed out that Teeg only affects noncreatures, so I'm a 'tard. Given that, he's borderline in my eyes.
Gaddock Teeg doesn't stop creatures, he stops noncreature spells. Still, though, if he's running things like Garruk, Caller of Beasts, then Gaddock Teeg may not be all that useful if his curve goes up to 6 or even higher.
Additionally, if Gaddock trumps nearly 11% of a deck that runs 40 creatures and a number of other spells at CMC<4, it's usually safe to assume that it hoses a far greater percentage of spells in less creature-centric deck types. At worst, he draws out some form of spot removal that would've otherwise targeted one of my more important creatures. At best, he prevents some opponents from playing the vast majority of the cards in their hands, giving me time to establish board control with value creatures.
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Anyway, just using your list as an example, Gaddock Teeg stops you from playing 11 of your 63 spells, or about 17.5%, and you run 29 creatures! So I feel Gaddock is worth running despite the downside, because in most matchups I think I'd retain a statistical advantage.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Yeah, I feel like I would need to test Teeg to see how I feel about him. Even if he might give me a statistical advantage over some of my opponents, there's an issue at when I'd cast Teeg versus when I'd be casting my 4+ CMC noncreature spells. Those are spells that are supposed to blow out a game (Overloaded Cyclonic Rift, Kicked Rite of Replication), I would hate to be stuck trying to kill my own Teeg before I make a move like that.
Bane is still an option for the reasons I discussed previously. Other possible cuts in my eyes would be:
Trinket Mage - how many targets do you have? Is he usually just becoming another pseudo ramp spell?
Stonehorn Dignitary - I liked him early on because the ability to stack his ability on one or more opponents. However, I think at the 4 CMC slot you may want to try out Spike Weaver, he's a hoss.
In addition to Sea Gate, I also run Sensei's Top and two of the three scry lands available to us. As mentioned above, my other good filters are one-ofs and are already being utilized in Zegana. Garruk, Caller of Beasts has also been improving my draws, but he's not exactly a filter (and is expensive to cast).
Trinket Mage has exactly two targets: Sol Ring and Sensei's Divining Top. I used to think that was enough, but I'm beginning to think that the 3 CMC spot would be better filled by Champion of Lambholt, which can feasibly turn my itty-bitty ETB dudes into an unblockable army.
Mirror Entity is kind of an all-star for me. I've actually won by pumping 8-10 mana into his ability more often than I've used him to fuel the Reveillark combo.
I'll start by replacing Trinket Mage with Champion of Lambholt. My average CMC hovers around 3.75, so if I cut Birds of Paradise for Ephara, God of the Polis my curve would take a pretty big hit. I see your point about Bane of Progress; the only reason I'm reluctant to cut it is that I run very few artifacts and enchantments. It feels really good to clear the board of mana rocks, Ghostly Prisons, and Mirari's Wakes with one card, at little-to-no cost to me. On the plus side, all three of my enchantments and three of my five artifacts can be recurred by Sun Titan.
On a side note, the CMC of an overloaded Cyclonic Rift is still 2, so Gaddock wouldn't stop you from overloading it. But sure, he does turn off many of your other blowout spells. I figure I have enough flicker/sacrifice/spot removal to manage Gaddock's occasional hindrance to my own game plan.
By the way, thanks for letting me seek input on your thread! I think I'm done now ;).
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Spent - do you use Spike Weaver in that deck only for its fog? You might consider swapping it out for Constant Mists (if its not already in there), and then you can put spike in your Roon deck.
Back on point:
So I kind of want to put Wargate back in. My issues are that I was starting to head away from tutors for a few reasons: 1) My opponents tend to be suspicious every time I tutor, 2) it lengthens the game time, and 3) my deck gets clumped together. Although I'd like to avoid those issues, I really enjoyed Wargate because it can search for some of my noncreature permanents that are fun, and also can help grab a land if I'm mana screwed. I might take out Ghostway as I'm finding it too situational and many times rotting in my hand.
Outcryqq - Spike Weaver plays a number of roles in Zegana, similar to how you use him here. I'll probably just pick up a second copy since it's only a few bucks. Just haven't had time lately.
On topic: Ghostway is indeed pretty situational, but for some reason I really like it. It's very flavorful, and I even get a quaint little sense of security when it's just rotting in my hand, haha. I do like Wargate, though I'd personally cut something other than Ghostway for it.
Cards I'd cut before Ghostway: Arcane Denial or Rewind - what do you find yourself countering most often? Other generals, board wipes or spot removal targeting you, other players' win conditions? if you use your counters to protect your board state, that's something Ghostway can do. Condemn or Path to Exile - you're already running two counterspells that tuck and several spot removal effects, including Swords to Plowshares. I could see cutting one of these two. Control Magic - this would be an easier cut if you had a Gilded Drake. Wrath of God - our decks are certainly quite different (as are our metas), but I find myself defending against wraths far more often than wanting to cast them. Fact or Fiction - don't get me wrong--I love this card. But at CMC4 for an effect you're unlikely to recur, is it worth it? Between cards like Zegana, Mulldrifter, Top, Sylvan Library, and others you might have enough draw/filter that you can afford to cut FoF.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Additionally, if Gaddock trumps nearly 11% of a deck that runs 40 creatures and a number of other spells at CMC<4, it's usually safe to assume that it hoses a far greater percentage of spells in less creature-centric deck types. At worst, he draws out some form of spot removal that would've otherwise targeted one of my more important creatures. At best, he prevents some opponents from playing the vast majority of the cards in their hands, giving me time to establish board control with value creatures.
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Anyway, just using your list as an example, Gaddock Teeg stops you from playing 11 of your 63 spells, or about 17.5%, and you run 29 creatures! So I feel Gaddock is worth running despite the downside, because in most matchups I think I'd retain a statistical advantage.
Considering you can just Roon/Mistmeadow Witch/Galepowder Mage Teeg away if you need to cast a higher cost noncreature spell, that's actually worth some consideration. I had two tabs open, one on a Ghave thread and another for Roon, and I thought this was the thread for Ghave; whoops (which, my own Ghave deck is pretty reliant on 4 and 5 mana enchantments if I can't just combo out with Earthcraft, so I'd be stuck sacrificing the guy and trying Karmic Guide/Reveillark shenanigans to return him later). Considering you can, for 2, 4 or 0 mana, Turn to Mist Teeg away and then cast your Tooth and Nail, Birthing Pod, Planeswalkers, enchantments, etc., there's really no issue with running Teeg at all. In fact, I'd probably recommend it now that I know I'm looking at the right damn thread, lol.
Gentlemen. I've been playing my own Roon deck and loving it.
Issue is that it seems to take a while to become a threat. I like starting very strong and I feel like I'm not doing much interaction with the ultra competitive decks in my meta
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Gentlemen. I've been playing my own Roon deck and loving it.
Issue is that it seems to take a while to become a threat. I like starting very strong and I feel like I'm not doing much interaction with the ultra competitive decks in my meta.
what is your meta like? do you play against a lot of super competitive combo decks? if so, you could take baby steps like adding Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or just go all out and turn Roon into a well-oiled combo machine. What turn are your games normally ending on/around?
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
We usually go with LD and control. Combo decks rarely surface. Most decks are just optimized reanimator, stax, LD, and other edh monsters.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
We usually go with LD and control. Combo decks rarely surface. Most decks are just optimized reanimator, stax, LD, and other edh monsters.
Yikes. LD and stax might be my least favorite types of decks to play against... I think I'd rather get combo'd out! If combo isn't off the table, you might consider using the old Reveillark/Mirror Entity combo, along with more ways to tutor up Survival of the Fittest, like Enlightened Tutor, and Idyllic Tutor ( I see you already run Wargate). Survival is a class A threat, and if it's not answered you can basically win shortly after you drop it.
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
I like the idea of more survival tutors and I have Mirror Entity on my try list. Don't know what to take out for him though. Not really feeling like doing infinites with him or Chron.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Hey dies, sorry in advance for bad formatting, as I'm on my mobile. I think with your list, if you are feeling like you can't finish strong, you can add some finishers or enablers. My brief look mskes me think rite of replication, thassa, and armada wurm. If I faced a lot of ld I'd add life from the loam and crucible of worlds.
Your creature base is very heavy towards the low end, I'd cut a bit of ramp for more beef. Even if you don't feel strong, turn 5 roon brings you to t6 ready to cast and blink a value creature- a very strong play.
Need more beef? Consider tootg and nail, craterhoof behemoth, avenger of zendikar.
Dies, I like all of Outcryqq's suggestions. the sad reality is that because we're using a lot of ETB dudes, they tend to scale lower on the P/T to CMC ratio, and Rite, Thassa, and Armada Wurm add a huge amount of value to compensate for that. TnN into Craterhoof/Avenger is always an effective win condition, even if it is a little overused (I still run all three).
you don't necessarily have to go "infinite" with Mirror Entity/Reveillark, but just having Entity, Lark, and either Karmic Guide or Body Double in play, along with Venser, Shaper Savant in the yard effectively allows you to bar your opponents from ever resolving another spell with as few as 2 activations of Entity's ability on the stack (per turn).
if you want to test Entity out, I'd say cut Nevermaker to make room for it. And if you're looking to add more tutors for Survival, you might consider cutting Fauna Shaman, which is nice but in all reality just a less efficient version of Survival. I'd personally run Enlightened or Idyllic Tutor in its place.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Fauna shaman is kinda a pet card that I run in all green decks. I love it but I agree it's no where near as useful as survival.
Nevermaker is insane when people tutor because I love to tuck generals but it's fairly rare that it happens.
I'm not a fan of rite because blinking the tokens overall bad. I do like the idea of Thassa and maybe Armada wurm though, thanks for the input.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
If you're facing down those sort of decks I'd consider trying to fit in Fracturing Gust , Privileged Position and /or Oblation. The amount of times I've tucked an annoying general is crazy.
If you're running Green Sun's Zenith you should also run Dryad Arbor for the sick early ramps. Finally I'd try and fit in Oracle of Mul-Daya, she's an absolute powerhouse. When you have 10+ fetch lands and 10 creature based tutors it becomes very easy to repeatedly reshuffle your deck looking for lands to play off the top.
As to Oracle of Mul-Daya, he's definitely a card I'd like to put in, I just have to get my hands on a copy.
Just so happens I picked up an extra Oracle yesterday; I'd certainly be willing to trade it to a fellow Rhino.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Okay so after much play-testing Nephalia Smuggler got cut. It's a useful effect but the tap cost is a major drawback mid to late game.
Secondly I'm cutting Rhystic Study which I've found to be fairly ineffective. If you can drop it turn 3 it usually draws ~3 cards, mid to late it gets paid for or generally destroyed.
Now onto additions! I've been looking for creatures that bring flexibility and utility to Roon and I've been having a big problem with key creatures being exiled. So my first new addition is RiftSweeper! He serves the double functions of returning exiled cards back into Roon and it can tuck creatures/generals if they choose to get exiled (Say off Roon). The icing on the cake was returning a card to shuffle my deck, putting a land on top for Oracle of Mul-Daya. Really liking this guy so far.
The other addition I brought in was to help control the board while not be the classic 4 mana wrath (which I detest playing in Roon :P). A mate brought around this card last night and what the hey, we figured I'd test him out... got him scooping on T5 :/
Okay so after much play-testing Nephalia Smuggler got cut. It's a useful effect but the tap cost is a major drawback mid to late game.
Secondly I'm cutting Rhystic Study which I've found to be fairly ineffective. If you can drop it turn 3 it usually draws ~3 cards, mid to late it gets paid for or generally destroyed.
Now onto additions! I've been looking for creatures that bring flexibility and utility to Roon and I've been having a big problem with key creatures being exiled. So my first new addition is RiftSweeper! He serves the double functions of returning exiled cards back into Roon and it can tuck creatures/generals if they choose to get exiled (Say off Roon). The icing on the cake was returning a card to shuffle my deck, putting a land on top for Oracle of Mul-Daya. Really liking this guy so far.
The other addition I brought in was to help control the board while not be the classic 4 mana wrath (which I detest playing in Roon :P). A mate brought around this card last night and what the hey, we figured I'd test him out... got him scooping on T5 :/
Hokori, Dust Drinker seems more fitting in a Derevi, Empyrial Tactician deck than a Roon deck. He works incredibly well as long as you can reliably resolve/protect Seedborn Muse or Prophet of Kruphix; otherwise you run the risk of slowing yourself down just as much as your opponents (not to mention the added drawback of getting targeted by everyone at the table for sealing up their mana production). Do you run a lot of mana rocks? I've found that Hokori is most effective in decks that rely heavily on artifact ramp, since rocks will get to untap as normal--with that in mind, if your opponents have more rocks than you do, Hokori can actually hurt you significantly. Hokori, along with Winter Orb and Static Orb, are staples in a lot of stax lists, and I think the decks like that in your meta might thrive off of universal resource denial. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Hokori, but if you're having good results with him I'd encourage further playtesting.
I've often considered Riftsweeper in this and other decks, but I concluded that it's too situational to warrant a slot and would too frequently end up being a dead card in my hand. I'd sooner run some resilient sac outlets (High Market and Miren, the Moaning Well come to mind) to use in response to someone trying to exile something critical to my gameplan. With our colors, it's fairly easy to recur important creatures. Same thing, though--if you're finding various ways to make use of Riftsweeper, then keep at it. I'd like to know if he can be consistently useful in your deck.
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
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I've also been tossing around the idea of testing Parallax Wave. Seems like it could be a fun way to set up for a board wipe and to reuse ETBs en masse. What do you think?
EDIT: one last thought--what do you think of Body Double in place of Progenitor Mimic? I play in a Wrath-heavy meta, and I'm thinking Body Double might be a fun way to take advantage of loaded graveyards, not to mention being able to abuse the ETBs of my own dead dudes in the event I don't have access to recursion. Lastly, it serves as a backup catalyst for Reveillark/Mirror Entity/Venser, Shaper Savant combo shenanigans if I'm feeling cornered or just downright mean (haha).
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Sydri's Magical Castle WUB
Chainer, Dementia Master: "Bring out your dead!" BBB
Riku Because Copying Decimate URG
Xira Arien, Jund StaxBRG
The Sylvan-Primordial-PlasmBUG
Trostani ComboGW
Vizkopa Guildmage - Peasant VariantBW
Spentbullets:
Yeah I had both Garruk, Caller of Beasts and Garruk, Wildspeaker, but I've since but them because in my meta, 'walkers simply do not survive. If things change in that regard, I might consider putting Caller back in.
I've also considered Parallax Wave since I just picked one up for my 1v1 edh deck (Geist of Saint Traft), but my concern is that it would be a 1-shot effect. I could get a similar effect with Ghostway which is easier on the mana curve and easier to recur/tutor for.
I have definitely considered Body Double, he'd be pretty great in my deck. From having played the deck, I've had a lot of ways to recur my creatures (Sun Titan, Reveillark, Eternal Witness, Angel of Serenity) so the yard issue isn't huge. The reason I like Progenitor Mimic is that when I land any of my board-stalling dudes (Spike Weaver, Glen Elendra Archmage) he becomes a soft board lock. Now that I own a Body Double though (thanks to the Jace v. Vraska deck, I may give him a try.
Robtheman: The issue I have with Void Stalker is that he ruins my tempo pretty hard. He will take up my 2-drop slot, do nothing, and then require 3 mana the next turn for an activation PLUS wanting a blink enabler out to be effective. I have more effective ways to take card of problematic creatures. The thought of tucking any general, though, seems pretty cool, so I'll definitely give it more thought.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsYeah, despite it being somewhat slow, I too have been running Progenitor Mimic with pretty good results. I decided to take out Lightning Greaves, which I felt wasn't doing enough work (I really only liked using it on Sun Titan), to make room for Body Double. Including Roon, this rounds out my creature count to a nice, clean 40.
I've got a quandary for you--I really want to add Champion of Lambholt and possibly Ephara, God of the Polis, but I'm at a complete loss as to what I should cut to make room for them. Without intending to hijack your thread, my creature base goes something like this:
1 Acidic Slime
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Armada Wurm
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Bane of Progress
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Body Double
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Duplicant
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Fierce Empath
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Gilded Drake
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Karmic Guide
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Mulldrifter
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Perplexing Chimera
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reveillark
1 Roon of the Hidden Realm
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stonehorn Dignitary
1 Sun Titan
1 Trinket Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Wood Elves
What two creatures would you cut first?
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
The second cut is harder. My choices would probably be Gaddock Teeg or Bane of Progress.
I like Teeg, but I'm not positive that he belongs in this list, since he prevents you from casting over half (24 out of 40) of your own creatures cards, including your own commander. I understand you have ways to cheat creatures into play, but he seems like a standout there.I liked Bane in my original list, but with cheaper, recurrable creatures that can serve the same function (Harmonic Sliver, Qasali Pridemage, Acidic Slime, and I assume you run Aura Shards), I felt that he was not needed. Together with the fact that he hits your own enchantments and artifacts, and I would also consider him to be on the chopping block.Edit: Pook and Pie pointed out that Teeg only affects noncreatures, so I'm a 'tard. Given that, he's borderline in my eyes.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsSig and Avatar drawn by me.
The only noncreature ramp cards I run are Nature's Lore, Farseek, Carpet of Flowers, Sol Ring, and Chromatic Lantern. Do you think that's enough to warrant cutting the Birds?
@Outcryqq & Pook and Pie:
Funny thing about Gaddock Teeg... I literally just posted something elsewhere in his defense. Copied over:
--
At first glance, Gaddock Teeg might appear to be a questionable inclusion in this decklist. To be certain, he does turn off approximately 10.7% of the nonland cards I run, ranging in importance from Return to Dust and Jace, the Mind Sculptor to Green Sun's Zenith, Garruk, Caller of Beasts, Birthing Pod, Venser, the Sojourner and Conjurer's Closet, but barring one-offs like Anger of the Gods or a cycled Decree of Pain, Gaddock singlehandedly stops nearly every sweeper in the format, which has proven to be an invaluable tool in a deck that contains 40 creatures.
Additionally, if Gaddock trumps nearly 11% of a deck that runs 40 creatures and a number of other spells at CMC<4, it's usually safe to assume that it hoses a far greater percentage of spells in less creature-centric deck types. At worst, he draws out some form of spot removal that would've otherwise targeted one of my more important creatures. At best, he prevents some opponents from playing the vast majority of the cards in their hands, giving me time to establish board control with value creatures.
--
Anyway, just using your list as an example, Gaddock Teeg stops you from playing 11 of your 63 spells, or about 17.5%, and you run 29 creatures! So I feel Gaddock is worth running despite the downside, because in most matchups I think I'd retain a statistical advantage.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
I would also feel very comfortable cutting a ramp spell considering I have quite a few filtering spells (Sensei's Divining Top, Thassa, God of the Sea, Sylvan Library, scryland). I see you use Sea Gate Oracle, do you use other filtering?
Yeah, I feel like I would need to test Teeg to see how I feel about him. Even if he might give me a statistical advantage over some of my opponents, there's an issue at when I'd cast Teeg versus when I'd be casting my 4+ CMC noncreature spells. Those are spells that are supposed to blow out a game (Overloaded Cyclonic Rift, Kicked Rite of Replication), I would hate to be stuck trying to kill my own Teeg before I make a move like that.
Bane is still an option for the reasons I discussed previously. Other possible cuts in my eyes would be:
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsIn addition to Sea Gate, I also run Sensei's Top and two of the three scry lands available to us. As mentioned above, my other good filters are one-ofs and are already being utilized in Zegana. Garruk, Caller of Beasts has also been improving my draws, but he's not exactly a filter (and is expensive to cast).
Trinket Mage has exactly two targets: Sol Ring and Sensei's Divining Top. I used to think that was enough, but I'm beginning to think that the 3 CMC spot would be better filled by Champion of Lambholt, which can feasibly turn my itty-bitty ETB dudes into an unblockable army.
Mirror Entity is kind of an all-star for me. I've actually won by pumping 8-10 mana into his ability more often than I've used him to fuel the Reveillark combo.
I'll start by replacing Trinket Mage with Champion of Lambholt. My average CMC hovers around 3.75, so if I cut Birds of Paradise for Ephara, God of the Polis my curve would take a pretty big hit. I see your point about Bane of Progress; the only reason I'm reluctant to cut it is that I run very few artifacts and enchantments. It feels really good to clear the board of mana rocks, Ghostly Prisons, and Mirari's Wakes with one card, at little-to-no cost to me. On the plus side, all three of my enchantments and three of my five artifacts can be recurred by Sun Titan.
On a side note, the CMC of an overloaded Cyclonic Rift is still 2, so Gaddock wouldn't stop you from overloading it. But sure, he does turn off many of your other blowout spells. I figure I have enough flicker/sacrifice/spot removal to manage Gaddock's occasional hindrance to my own game plan.
By the way, thanks for letting me seek input on your thread! I think I'm done now ;).
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Back on point:
So I kind of want to put Wargate back in. My issues are that I was starting to head away from tutors for a few reasons: 1) My opponents tend to be suspicious every time I tutor, 2) it lengthens the game time, and 3) my deck gets clumped together. Although I'd like to avoid those issues, I really enjoyed Wargate because it can search for some of my noncreature permanents that are fun, and also can help grab a land if I'm mana screwed. I might take out Ghostway as I'm finding it too situational and many times rotting in my hand.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsOn topic: Ghostway is indeed pretty situational, but for some reason I really like it. It's very flavorful, and I even get a quaint little sense of security when it's just rotting in my hand, haha. I do like Wargate, though I'd personally cut something other than Ghostway for it.
Cards I'd cut before Ghostway:
Arcane Denial or Rewind - what do you find yourself countering most often? Other generals, board wipes or spot removal targeting you, other players' win conditions? if you use your counters to protect your board state, that's something Ghostway can do.
Condemn or Path to Exile - you're already running two counterspells that tuck and several spot removal effects, including Swords to Plowshares. I could see cutting one of these two.
Control Magic - this would be an easier cut if you had a Gilded Drake.
Wrath of God - our decks are certainly quite different (as are our metas), but I find myself defending against wraths far more often than wanting to cast them.
Fact or Fiction - don't get me wrong--I love this card. But at CMC4 for an effect you're unlikely to recur, is it worth it? Between cards like Zegana, Mulldrifter, Top, Sylvan Library, and others you might have enough draw/filter that you can afford to cut FoF.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Considering you can just Roon/Mistmeadow Witch/Galepowder Mage Teeg away if you need to cast a higher cost noncreature spell, that's actually worth some consideration. I had two tabs open, one on a Ghave thread and another for Roon, and I thought this was the thread for Ghave; whoops (which, my own Ghave deck is pretty reliant on 4 and 5 mana enchantments if I can't just combo out with Earthcraft, so I'd be stuck sacrificing the guy and trying Karmic Guide/Reveillark shenanigans to return him later). Considering you can, for 2, 4 or 0 mana, Turn to Mist Teeg away and then cast your Tooth and Nail, Birthing Pod, Planeswalkers, enchantments, etc., there's really no issue with running Teeg at all. In fact, I'd probably recommend it now that I know I'm looking at the right damn thread, lol.
Sig and Avatar drawn by me.
Issue is that it seems to take a while to become a threat. I like starting very strong and I feel like I'm not doing much interaction with the ultra competitive decks in my meta
5 Roon of the hidden realm
Critters
1 Bids of paradise
1 Noble Heirarch
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Gilded drake
2 Bloom tender
2 Fauna shaman
2 Mistmeadow witch
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Coiling oracle
2 Snapcaster mage
3 Fiend hunter
3 Wood elves
3 Farhaven elf
3 Eternal witness
3 Fierce empath
3 Harmonic sliver
4 Solemn Simularcrum
4 Nevermaker
4 Archaeomancer
4 Venser, shaper savant
4 Phyrexian metamorph
5 Lavinia of the tenth
5 Thragtusk
5 Seedborn muse
5 Prohpet of kruphix
5 Body double
5 Mulldrifter
5 Perplexing chimera
5 Karmic guide
5 Reveillark
5 Ixidron
6 Deadeye Navigator
6 Duplicant
6 Bane of progress
6 Prime speaker Zegana
6 Sun titan
6 Progenitor mimic
6 Brutalizer exarch
7 Angel of serenity
8 Terastodon
5 Venser, the sojourner
Non-permanents
1 Green sun's zenith
1 Swords to plowshares
1 Path to exile
1 Worldly tutor
2 Eladamri's call
2 Cyclonic rift
3 Beast within
3 Wargate
3 Chord of calling
3 Ghostly flicker
3 Ghostway
4 Return to dust
Rocks:
0 Mana crypt
1 Sol ring
1 Mana vault
1 Sensei's divining top
2 Lightning greaves
3 Colalition relic
4 Birthing pod
4 Tawnos's coffin
Chantments:
2 Survival of the fittest
2 Sylvan Library
3 Aura shards
35 Misc lands
Stuff I'd like to add?
Nature's lore and/or Farseek
Curse of the swine
Tooth and nail
Angel of finality
Soul of the harvest
Stonehorn dignitary
Oblation
Momentary Blink
Life from the loam
Luminate primordial
Sphinx of uthuun
Signets
Supreme Verdict
Sower of temptation
Land tax
Restoration angel
Parallax Wave
Ephara, God of the Polis
Bow of nylea
Bident of Thassa
Glen Elendra Archmage
Deadwood treefolk
mystical tutor
sakashima's student
Aluren
Cloudstone Curio
Man-o'-war
Vendillion Clique
Mirror entity
Add counters?
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
what is your meta like? do you play against a lot of super competitive combo decks? if so, you could take baby steps like adding Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or just go all out and turn Roon into a well-oiled combo machine. What turn are your games normally ending on/around?
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Yikes. LD and stax might be my least favorite types of decks to play against... I think I'd rather get combo'd out! If combo isn't off the table, you might consider using the old Reveillark/Mirror Entity combo, along with more ways to tutor up Survival of the Fittest, like Enlightened Tutor, and Idyllic Tutor ( I see you already run Wargate). Survival is a class A threat, and if it's not answered you can basically win shortly after you drop it.
You could also add Palinchron for infinite mana, or Time Warp and Mystical Tutor to go with your Eternal Witness to take all the turns.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Your creature base is very heavy towards the low end, I'd cut a bit of ramp for more beef. Even if you don't feel strong, turn 5 roon brings you to t6 ready to cast and blink a value creature- a very strong play.
Need more beef? Consider tootg and nail, craterhoof behemoth, avenger of zendikar.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsyou don't necessarily have to go "infinite" with Mirror Entity/Reveillark, but just having Entity, Lark, and either Karmic Guide or Body Double in play, along with Venser, Shaper Savant in the yard effectively allows you to bar your opponents from ever resolving another spell with as few as 2 activations of Entity's ability on the stack (per turn).
if you want to test Entity out, I'd say cut Nevermaker to make room for it. And if you're looking to add more tutors for Survival, you might consider cutting Fauna Shaman, which is nice but in all reality just a less efficient version of Survival. I'd personally run Enlightened or Idyllic Tutor in its place.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Nevermaker is insane when people tutor because I love to tuck generals but it's fairly rare that it happens.
I'm not a fan of rite because blinking the tokens overall bad. I do like the idea of Thassa and maybe Armada wurm though, thanks for the input.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
Nephalia Smuggler is currently being run with Sower of Temptation. You can flicker creatures back under your control to reset Sower. Conjurer's Closet is amazing for the same reasons so we'll see how they go.
If you're running Green Sun's Zenith you should also run Dryad Arbor for the sick early ramps. Finally I'd try and fit in Oracle of Mul-Daya, she's an absolute powerhouse. When you have 10+ fetch lands and 10 creature based tutors it becomes very easy to repeatedly reshuffle your deck looking for lands to play off the top.
As to Oracle of Mul-Daya, he's definitely a card I'd like to put in, I just have to get my hands on a copy.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsJust so happens I picked up an extra Oracle yesterday; I'd certainly be willing to trade it to a fellow Rhino.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Secondly I'm cutting Rhystic Study which I've found to be fairly ineffective. If you can drop it turn 3 it usually draws ~3 cards, mid to late it gets paid for or generally destroyed.
Now onto additions! I've been looking for creatures that bring flexibility and utility to Roon and I've been having a big problem with key creatures being exiled. So my first new addition is RiftSweeper! He serves the double functions of returning exiled cards back into Roon and it can tuck creatures/generals if they choose to get exiled (Say off Roon). The icing on the cake was returning a card to shuffle my deck, putting a land on top for Oracle of Mul-Daya. Really liking this guy so far.
The other addition I brought in was to help control the board while not be the classic 4 mana wrath (which I detest playing in Roon :P). A mate brought around this card last night and what the hey, we figured I'd test him out... got him scooping on T5 :/
Hokori, Dust Drinker
I'll let you ruminate on him (it?) for a while...
Hokori, Dust Drinker seems more fitting in a Derevi, Empyrial Tactician deck than a Roon deck. He works incredibly well as long as you can reliably resolve/protect Seedborn Muse or Prophet of Kruphix; otherwise you run the risk of slowing yourself down just as much as your opponents (not to mention the added drawback of getting targeted by everyone at the table for sealing up their mana production). Do you run a lot of mana rocks? I've found that Hokori is most effective in decks that rely heavily on artifact ramp, since rocks will get to untap as normal--with that in mind, if your opponents have more rocks than you do, Hokori can actually hurt you significantly. Hokori, along with Winter Orb and Static Orb, are staples in a lot of stax lists, and I think the decks like that in your meta might thrive off of universal resource denial. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Hokori, but if you're having good results with him I'd encourage further playtesting.
I've often considered Riftsweeper in this and other decks, but I concluded that it's too situational to warrant a slot and would too frequently end up being a dead card in my hand. I'd sooner run some resilient sac outlets (High Market and Miren, the Moaning Well come to mind) to use in response to someone trying to exile something critical to my gameplan. With our colors, it's fairly easy to recur important creatures. Same thing, though--if you're finding various ways to make use of Riftsweeper, then keep at it. I'd like to know if he can be consistently useful in your deck.
I've got one for you: does anyone think it'd be a good idea to cut Jace, the Mind Sculptor in favor of Ephara, God of the Polis?
Other potential cuts to make room for Ephara:
Thoughts?
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU