Roon of the Hidden Realm: This deck is a multiplayer toolbox-style control deck with midrange elements in bant colors. The deck ramps early, sets up value creatures, and then blinks those value creatures to bury your opponents in card advantage and lock down the board. The deck will generally win through combat damage, usually done while the deck also holds the rest of the table in a soft lock.
Deck History
I've been playing with Roon of the Hidden Realm since the Commander 2013 decks were released. It began as mostly a midrange type deck, generally blinking creatures for value and winning with a game-ending spell or massive board presence. In its early iterations, this deck's favorite line of play was to either blink creatures like Armada Wurm repeatedly, or to cast Tooth and Nail to get Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof Behemoth. It packed a ton of tutors and played a fairly linear style of game.
This deck has evolved to become a more controlling deck in response to the cutthroat meta that I currently play in. This deck is no longer designed to keep friends - it is mean, and once its engines get pumping your opponents will not enjoy playing against the deck. I have opted for more counterspells in order to fight the quick combo decks I am used to facing, but this deck is very versatile and you can change it to fit your meta very easily.
I have gotten a ton of great ideas from various users on these forums, and without their help this deck would not be as successful has it has been. I enjoy this deck because it has a decent matchup against every type of deck, and is slightly unassuming to begin with. Any criticism or feedback would be appreciated; however, please note that I have played this deck heavily, so if you suggest card(s) for the deck, please also suggest card(s) to remove and back those choices up with reasoning. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you have. Thanks for looking at my primer!
Why play Roon of the Hidden Realm?
Roon of the Hidden Realm is a ton of fun to play! Bant colors provide you with some of the best answers in the game, and some of the most versatile creatures in magic.
You enjoy value creatures. This deck does not always play the most flashy creatures; not the type of creatures that hit the board and people ooh and aah over them. Rather, the deck plays creatures that give you the most bang for your buck, and then brings them back to the battlefield repeatedly. If you like playing value creatures, this might be the deck for you!
You like "turning dudes sideways." There are a ton of ways to win a game of magic, and combat damage is only one of those ways. If you like winning by attacking with creatures, this might be the deck for you!
You like to feel in control of the situation. This deck tends to always have an answer for what other decks might try to do. If you like playing a reactive game, this deck might be the one for you!
You like interactive games. As mentioned above, this deck plays a lot of reactive spells that allow you and your spells to interact with those that your opponents control. If you like interactive games, this deck might be the one for you!
You prefer winning outside of the combat step. Some decks win with big spells, and some decks win with combos. If you like playing those styles of deck, this deck might not be for you.
You like playing big flashy creatures. This deck is full of creatures that provide value when they come into play. If you prefer a style of play that allows you to cast a creature and say "I WIN!", this might not be the deck for you.
You like a linear style of play. This deck can be challenging to pilot because you will need to be ready to react to what opponents play, and to be able to do that you must know your deck well. If you prefer a deck that plays a more straightforward style of game, this deck might not be the one for you!
Other options for Bant commanders: (there are many options, I will list the most popular here)
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician: An extremely powerful commander - so powerful he was banned as a commander for 1v1 ("French") edh. This commander would be a decent substitute for Roon; however, Derevi often wants to play a much more controlling type of game than Roon. In addition, Roon provides another blink outlet, which this deck is based around.
Rafiq of the Many: Rafiq usually wants to play a more voltron-style of game; that is, he is most powerful when you put a lot of equipment or enchantments on him and try to hit players directly with your commander. These decks play a very different type of game than the type that Roon plays.
Jenara, Asura of War: Another reasonable alternative to Roon, Jenara is much more reasonably costed and allows for multiple angles of attack (commander damage from Jenara, etb value from the rest of the deck). However, like with Derevi, I prefer Roon because he gives me guaranteed access to a source of blink, which is what the deck is centered around, which allows for more slots in the main deck for cards not dedicated to blinking other permanents.
Phelddagrif: This guy is generally found at the head of a "group hug" deck, which looks to appease its opponents by giving them cards and other resources while playing a political game with its opponents. Again, this type of deck plays very differently than a Roon deck.
Armada Wurm: The lone card in the deck that is used just for beating face. This deck usually wins from controlled board states, but sometimes there's no substitute for making a 5/5 trampling wurm every turn. If you want more beef in your deck, Thragtusk is also a good addition.
Mana Fixing/Ramp
The best ramp in the game.
Mana Vault: Great ramp artifact, helps power out lots of the deck, and the life loss is negligible in a 40-life format. Obviously better in the opening hand, but still a relevant draw in the mid game.
Noble Hierarch: The only mana dork this deck uses, primarily because it has exalted in addition to its ability to produce mana. Does not have an enter the battlefield (etb) trigger, but still worth it. Can be recurred with Sun Titan and Reveillark.
"Sad Robot"
Sol Ring: The best artifact ramp available. There is a reason this card is banned in 1v1 ("French") edh - because it is broken. Can help power out our general as early as turn 3.
Coiling Oracle: This guy is a great 2-drop which can speed you up a great deal. He's also a great way to continue (or start) a Birthing Pod chain. Finally, he's recurrable with both Sun Titan and Reveillark.
Farseek: In a deck with lands that have multiple basic land types, this is very good at making sure we have the correct mana. This card competes with many other similar cards, and there are good arguments for using those others instead. Find the ramp spells you like and reap the benefits!Replaced 11/15/16
Chromatic Lanern: A great card, especially when your deck uses quite a few utility lands - this will turn them all into mana-producing lands as well!
Coalition Relic: One of the best mana rocks available. Fixes mana problems, and can ramp 2 turns ahead if used at the end of the opponent's turn.
Commander's Sphere: This is a solid mana rock, and it has the additional use of not being a dead late-game draw, as you can cantrip it in a pinch. Bonus points for being recurrable with Sun Titan.
Darksteel Ingot: My meta has a lot of artifact destruction, so that is why this mana rock is included. Depending on your meta, there are other very good mana rocks you could use here, including Fellwar Stone, Chromatic Lantern, or the signets would be great choices too.
Oracle of Mul Daya: Any card that allows for an additional land drop in this deck is already good. Allowing you to filter from the top of your deck is even better. He has no etb triggers, but the pure power of this card to ramp you significantly and to filter your draws is enough to warrant his inclusion in the deck. 12/10/14
Solemn Simulacrum: a/k/a "Sad Robot", this guy is great in almost any 3+ color edh deck. He fixes mana, blocks early agro, can be blinked for more value, and can be recurred with Reveillark.
Blink Enablers
Keeping him alive usually spells game over for your opponents.
Mistmeadow Witch: Very great card, one of our few early-game creature drops. A source of repeatable blink, can be used both offensively or defensively, depending on the situation. Can be recurred with Sun Titan and Reveillark.
Conjurer's Closet: After much consideration and some prodding, I'm testing this card. It's relatively high costed, but after the initial investment it's a free source of blinking, where nearly every other blink engine requires a mana investment. Will help close games out. 12/10/14
Eldrazi Displacer: An amazing source of blink, this guy can be used offensively or defensively. The only catch is the colorless mana requirement, so your mana base might need some slight changes to make sure you can make use of this guy when you see him.
Venser, the Sojourner: The only planeswalker in the list, and it has earned its spot. Venser is very versatile, both because he can blink for no extra investment, and because his second ability is very relevant in order to help you push through damage (which this deck sometimes has a hard time doing). Also, his ultimate will win you games. A must-answer for your opponents, cast him when you can protect him.
It won't make you popular, but it will make you safe.
Condemn: This is a meta call. I have some very aggressive decks in my meta, and tucking their commander (eg Aurelia, the Warleader) is vital to my survival, as this deck takes some time to get going. If your meta is a bit slower, I would consider adding more beef to the deck.2/24/15
Path to Exile: Super efficient and unconditional removal, at instant speed, and exile. The drawback is minimal in EDH. The bee's knees of removal.
Swords to Plowshares: Like Path to Exile - Super efficient and unconditional removal, at instant speed, and exile. The drawback is minimal in EDH. The bee's knees of removal.
Cyclonic Rift: Generally used to end games by overloading it, this can sometimes save your bacon early game on problematic permanents. Make sure you wait until your opponent's end of turn to overload it, then you should usually be able to untap and finish off an opponent.
Gilded Drake: Finally added 3/5/15, this card is incredibly powerful: it's low on the mana curve, scales with the power of your opponents, and is one-sided with the help of any blink enabler.
Qasali Pridemage: One of the deck's few answers to Torpor Orb, this creature also has an exalted trigger and fills a great role on the lower end of the mana curve. Bonus points for being recurrable with both Sun Titan and Reveillark.
Aura Shards: This card will make the table angry with you, so be prepared to protect it and yourself. If you mana to untap with this in play, you should usually be able to take control of the entire game. Make sure to note that its ability is a "may" ability, so if there are no artifacts or enchantments you want to blow up, you are not forced to blow up one of your own (which was a problem with the now-outclassed Harmonic Sliver).
Protect yourself from combo decks.
Bant Charm: Versatile removal, and again a meta call for me. In my meta, I've found that tucking generals is one of the few ways I'm able to survive long enough to make it to the late game with this deck. If your meta is a bit slower or less competitive, I would consider replacing this with another counterspell or another fatty creature. 3/5/15
Beast Within: One of the best removal spells around, because it can hit any type of permanent. This deck is also not concerned with giving an opponent a 3/3 token - it won't do much damage, and if it threatens you, you can blink it away forever.
Krosan Grip: A green EDH staple, and for good reason. This card can stop many combos dead in their tracks.
Mangara of Corondor: Exiling any permanent is exceedingly powerful, and this guy can do it repeatedly if you have an instant-speed blink enabler (such as Roon of the Hidden Realm - all you do is activate Mangara's ability, and with it on the stack, exile Mangara. When those two abilities resolve, Mangara is exiled using (for example, Roon's ability), and then Mangara's own ability resolves, exiling the targeted permanent. Since Mangara is already in exile when his ability resolves, he will not be exiled permanently.
Sower of Temptation: Great early-game pseduo removal spell, also can be bounced late game to steal higher quality threats. Efficiently costed and scales as the game progresses. He's a new addition, but I expect him to perform well for this deck.
They don't flip back over when he leaves play.
Supreme Verdict: The uncounterable clause is very important for EDH purposes. Having access to a 4-mana wrath effect is also powerful. Remember that your deck can bounce back quickly (no pun intended), running many different sources of graveyard recursion.
Acidic Slime: One of the finishers of the deck, this guy will not make you friends. But it will make you win. Pair with Deadeye Navigator for brutality. When killing lands off in a multiplayer game, be sure to go for a particular color of mana for one opponent at a time (for example, destroy all blue sources from a player using Grimgrin, Corpse-Born as a general). This will allow you to render that opponent harmless, which will allow you to focus on another opponent.
Ixidron: A great addition to the deck that many players will not see coming. He is tutorable using Birthing Pod and Eladamri's Call, making him the only tutorable "wrath" in the deck. Keep in mind that even if your opponents kill Ixidron, their creatures remain face-down, meaning that if you catch a few enemy commanders this way, their only way to turn them face-up is to either blink them, or kill and recast them.
Austere Command: Amazing, versatile sweeper. This card allows you to choose the most problematic of cards to destroy, while keeping the rest around.
Duplicant: A blinkable source of exile, this creature is a good answer to indestructible creatures. Also recurrable with Reveillark.
Angel of Serenity: One of my favorite finishers of the deck, this angel is very versatile - it can exile problematic creatures, allowing you to survive or allowing your creatures to connect, or it can also serve as a source of recursion for creatures in your own graveyard. Also flies, so it has some form of evasion. When blinked one or twice, usually ends the game.
Luminate Primordial: Swords to Plowshares on a stick - this guy is great both because he hits all your opponents, but his vigilance is sometimes relevant. A solid beater attached to removal. The downside is hardly relevant in EDH.
Tutors
Be sure to check out the subsection "Tutor Targets" in the Strategy section below for common targets for these tutors
Eladamri's Call: Very good tutor. Instant speed, low mana cost, which means it doesn't compete with many other cards in the deck. The only downside is that you have to reveal the creature you get, but by the time you know what you're tutoring for, it shouldn't much matter.
Mystical Tutor: Another instant-speed tutor and a very low casting cost. Make sure to cast this at the end of the opponent's turn. This card is instrumental in allowing you to tutor for answers that are not creature-based (board wipes, removal, or a game-ending Cyclonic Rift or Rite of Replication).
Birthing Pod: This is an extremely powerful card, and doubly so in this deck. Make sure to familiarize yourself with the creatures in your deck so that you know what creature you are going to pod for. It will be helpful to consider certain "pod chains" against certain types of decks; lists of creatures that you should pod into and pod out of in order to bury your opponents or answer their threats. A very common pod chain is Noble Hierarch-->Coiling Oracle-->Eternal Witness-->Solemn Simulacrum-->Reveillark-->Sun Titan-->Angel of Serenity. By doing this, you guarantee continued recursion (you will have gotten back Eternal Witness using Reveillark), you will have ramp, and removal.
Green Sun's Zenith: Like the other tutors, make sure to familiarize yourself with the creatures in your deck before actually playing the deck, so that you know what creatures are available to you at any given time. This is especially important with Green Sun's Zenith, as it can only fetch green creatures. Most commonly used to get Dryad Arbor on turn 1 for ramp purposes, or Prophet of Kruphix at any other point in the game.
Card Draw/Filter
Cheap investment, easy card advantage.
Sensei's Divining Top: This card is simply amazing. It filters draws, digs deep, and is very inexpensive. There's a reason it's on the 1v1 ("French") edh banned list. Try it out, love it, abuse it. Do not forget that if it gets destroyed, it is recurrable with Sun Titan.
Sylvan Library: One of the best card filters ever made. Do not forget that you can draw up to 2 extra cards per turn, if it's worth the life. Be careful though, as this strategy can kill you quickly.
Rhystic Study: After trying many different sources of card draw, I have settled on this one making my top 5. It's a cheap investment, and it generally nets me at least 3 cards. In addition, it's a good political tool, sometimes slowing down opponents' plays for fear of allowing me to draw cards. Either way (getting to draw or slowing down opponents), this card does a lot of work for 3 mana.
Fact or Fiction: Instant speed, you choose the card(s) you get. This card is amazing for EDH, and it's great for when you are looking for a specific threat or answer. Make sure to use at the end of the opponent's turn, unless you desperately need to hit a land drop.7/8/16
Mulldrifter: Straightforward card draw that can be blinked for more value. Can also be recurred with Reveillark. Makes a solid pod target as well.
Control
Amazing counter magic.
Arcane Denial: I like my counter magic to have additional benefits, and this is the ideal case - a counter that allows me to draw an extra card. True, you're allowing your opponent to draw 2 cards, but make sure to save your counter magic for very important cards and you'll benefit a great deal from them.
Disallow: A very strong, flexible piece of counter magic, and easier to cast than Voidslime.
Dissipate: Counter magic with an upside - exiling cards means my opponent won't be bringing them back from the graveyard. Graveyard recursion is very prevalent in my EDH meta, and I'm sure it's prevalent in most EDH metas.
Hinder: Counter magic with an upside - I generally save this spell for opposing commanders, unless I'm desperate.
Removed 5/29/15, replaced with Dissipate due to the tuck rule change
Spell Crumple: One of the best counterspells in the game, this is great for tucking opposing generals, and has the added benefit of going back into your library.
Voidslime: A new (12/10/14) addition, and a card I've been looking to pick up for quite some time. My meta is pretty cutthroat, and I'm losing to big plays (A big spell or a big trigger), not gradually over time. This is a versatile answer and I'm expecting it to perform well.10/28/16
Glen Elendra Archmage: She's brutal in the late game, and can create a soft lock against most decks with you have a blink enabler out (lets you counter a spell, and then blink the persist counter off of her). Make sure to note that she's a wizard, so even without a blink enabler, you can still "reset" her persist using Riptide Laboratory on her and casting her again.
Rewind: In the late game, this deck always has a use for mana. This is a counterspell that allows me to keep extra mana up for further shenanigans.
Perplexing Chimera: This creature is responsible for more scoops than any other card in the deck, besides perhaps Acidic Slime. This chimera plus Prophet of Kruphix plus Roon of the Hidden Realm makes a boardstate where you can steal the first spell each player casts each turn (then blinking away the chimera once they control it). When tutoring, be cognizant of this interaction.
Utility
We have a ton of recursion to keep the juice flowing!
Eternal Witness: A staple in any EDH deck with green in it, this girl has amazing interactions with most of the rest of the deck. Great in a Birthing Pod chain, recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark, and the only way to get spells back from our graveyard.
Clever Impersonator: This guy is a meta call. Many deck in my area play some very big and scary cards, and I like to be able to turn that against them.
Phyrexian Metamorph: An extremely versatile creature, he can copy either creatures or artifacts. If you copied a creature, you can blink him to allow him to enter as another target later in the game, if a more valuable target is put into play.
Spike Weaver: I opted for this creature instead of Stonehorn Dignitary, though there are good arguments for to include either one (or both). His purpose is twofold: first, he's a political tool, making it more beneficial for your opponents to attack each other instead of you. Second, he's a great answer to a few decks that I have problems with in my meta - fast swarm (Krenko goblins) and voltron (Uril). This creature blanks both. Don't forget, his counters can be replaced simply by blinking him. Can also be recurred with Sun Titan.
One of the most powerful cards in the deck - protect her!
Karmic Guide: An integral part of our recursion engine. Often used to get back an Eternal Witness, Reveillark, or Sun Titan. Keep this creature in mind when tutoring, as the protection from black clause can be very helpful in combat against certain decks.
Privileged Position: Strict upgrade from the now-outdone Asceticism, this is a protection tool for mid/late game when you have your value engines going.7/8/16
Prophet of Kruphix: The most popular tutor target in the deck, this card is insane in EDH. If I had one, I'd also add Seedborn Muse for the same reason. Allows us to get value out of our blink engines during every turn, not just our turn. Helps force board locks with a blink engine (ie Roon of the Hidden Realm) and a good value creature (like Perplexing Chimera, Glen Elendra Archmage, or Acidic Slime). Make sure to protect this card with either counter magic, or the ability to blink her in response to removal. Remember that she can be brought back to hand with Riptide Laboratory, and can be recurred with Reveillark.banned
Reveillark: A key piece of our recursion engine, many cards' values are tested using by asking the question "Can it be recurred with Reveillark?". Be sure to remember that you get the cards back when he LEAVES the battlefield, not when he enters. So you'll need a way to kill him (Birthing Pod), blink him (Roon of the Hidden Realm, Mistmeadow Witch), or cast him for his evoke cost to get that value out of him.
Seedborn Muse: I've witnessed over and over how powerful Prophet of Kruphix is in this deck, and she should perform similarly. Late game, she will allow me to keep counter/removal mana up, and keep mana to blink and EoT. A new addition (12/10/14) to the deck, I expect her to quickly become a vital part of this deck's end game.
Panharmonicon: This card is an absolute powerhouse in this deck. In a deck built around enter-the-battlefield abilities, this doubles each ability that we want to abuse. This can end games quickly.
Progenitor Mimic: Kind of a "win more" card, but fits very well with what this deck is trying to do. Additional benefit is that it's versatile - you can target opponents' creatures with it. Also recurrable with Reveillark. Goes completely bonkers with Perplexing Chimera if you're ahead on the board.7/8/16
Sun Titan: The epitome of recursion, many of the cards in this deck are tested by asking "Can it be recurred with Sun Titan?". Remember that you get his ability when he enters the battlefield AND when he attacks. This is also one of the beefier cards in the deck, and is commonly used to close out games where opponents have not scooped yet.
Rite of Replication: One of the only true "game enders" in the deck, this card exists in the deck to close out games. Except in fringe situations where you need to copy a creature for survival, this spell is used only with it's kicker cost in order to create an army that can knock out players in one combat step. If opponents do not have better targets, almost all of this deck's curve-toppers are good targets (Armada Wurm, Sun Titan, Angel of Serenity, Luminate Primordial), as they are not legendary and can attack for a lot of damage.
Lands
Fetchlands are very powerful.
Arid Mesa: In this deck, the more fetchlands we use, the better. Although this is an "off-color" fetchland, it still can tutor up 4 different two-color lands (Tundra, Savannah, Temple Garden, Hallowed Fountain. If you have the ability to know what the top of your deck is (Sensei's Divining Top, for example), make sure you peek ahead to see if you like what's coming up. If not, crack your fetchland to also shuffle up your library!
Breeding Pool: One of the three "shocklands", these are incredibly powerful lands that count as two different land types, making them very easy to fetch for using fetchlands or other tutors like Farseek.
City of Brass: Comes into play untapped and provides any color you want. The lifeloss is negligible, this is a great addition to our mana base.
Command Tower: One of the best lands we play, comes into play tapped and provides any color our deck case use.
Dryad Arbor: Playing this creature is risky - it's a creature, so it has summoning sickness, meaning you cannot use it for mana the turn it comes into play. However, you can ramp quickly with it using Green Sun's Zenith where X=0, and he can also be tutored out later in the game easily. Also starts a Birthing Pod chain, if you have no other creatures.11/5/16
Dust Bowl: This is a meta call. However, there are many extremely powerful nonbasic lands in the game, and this is a source of repeated removal for them.
Faerie Conclave: This deck plays a control style of game, so there are a lot of times where there will be no creatures on the board. This creatures allows you to get in extra damage against opponents. This is also a meta call - if you have a slower meta or one with less flying, I might swap this out for a land that comes into play untapped, or swap out some control elements from some equipment (for example Sword of Fire and Ice), which this creature can hold in a pinch.
Scrylands help fix our draws.
Flooded Strand: On-color fetchlands are very powerful and important to this deck. This land can fetch up any of your dual-color lands that have multiple land types, can let you shuffle the deck if you want (assuming you know what the top card(s) are, using something like Sensei's Divining Top). The life loss is of little importance in EDH.
Glacial Fortress: One of the "checklands", this has a good chance of coming into play untapped because of our other lands.
Halimar Depths: Topdeck manipulation in this deck is pretty important, and tacking that ability on a land that we can use is just gravy.
Reliquary Tower: A utility land commonly found in EDH decks. Our deck is capable of drawing an incredible amount of cards (repeatedly blinking Prime Speaker Zegana, for example). Having this land out helps us utilize all that card draw to its maximum potential.
Riptide Laboratory: Although only 6 of our creatures are wizards, two of them are exceedingly powerful and end games quickly for us: Glen Elendra Archmage and Prophet of Kruphix. This land can save these creatures from boardwipes, spot removal, or can reset persist for the Archmage.11/5/16
Savannah: One of the original dual lands ("ABU"), there is no better land to include. Comes into play untapped, taps for either of two colors, and counts as both land types so they are easy to fetch.
Wizards are some of our most powerful creatures.
Seaside Citadel: Although this land comes into play tapped, it is one of only a few lands in our deck that can tap for any color in our deck.
Temple of Enlightenment: Scrylands come into play tapped, but help filter our draws. In EDH, and with this deck, it is important to keep drawing into answers for our opponents' threats, and this land helps us do that while also tapping for either of two colors.
Venser, Shaper Savant: Another card that I think will be very powerful in this deck, but I have yet to pick up a copy of it. Will probably replace one of my counterspells.
Gaddock Teeg: I've gone back and forth of whether to include this guy or not. He'd turn off Rite of Replication, my board wipes, and some other spells, but he'd be a really hard-to-deal-with hatebear against a lot of decks that I play against. Still considering it, any comments on actually using it in EDH outside of it being a general would be appreciated.
Palinchron: I know I could add him for a few infinite loops, but in this deck I'm not really looking to go infinite. Most of the people in my meta frown upon infinite combos, so I want to steer clear of this guy.
Terastodon: A lot of builds like this as a curve-topper, but I prefer to recur my other removal targets that cost less, either Reclamation Sage or Duplicant, depending on the target that needs removing. There is now a better argument for him now that Sylvan Primordial is banned.
Strategy
Playing the Deck
Great early game ramp.
Mission Statement
This deck is not a fast deck, so be prepared to sit back and answer lethal threats and bide your time until you are in a position to control the board. Early game you will want to play small-value creatures and ramp spells, while keeping big threats off the board. Mid game you will want to start dropping bigger value creatures and protecting them with board control. Late game you want to drop a blink engine and repeatedly blink big value creatures to bury your opponents in card advantage and other etb triggers, or drop a big spell to blow out the game.
Early Game (turns 1-4)
In the early game, this deck wants to keep a low profile and ramp into big mana. The deck craves a lot of mana to keep its engines running, so drop mana rocks like Sol Ring and mana dudes like Wood Elves as quickly as possible. If you happen to have a value engine like Birthing Pod in your hand, feel free to drop it and start the pod chain, but always try to protect your value engines with counter magic if at all possible. Creatures like Coiling Oracle and Oracle of Mul Daya will speed up your game while providing you creatures to either chump block with or pod away later for more offensive creatures.
Save your removal and counter magic for only the most dangerous threats. Remember that the deck is chock full of removal, so there's nothing wrong with allowing small and mid-sized creatures to hit the board and attack as they wish. Specific cards you want to watch out for depend on your meta; however, there are certain cards that you should keep an eye out for. If you are familiar with the combos in your meta, do not hesitate to counter or remove a lethal combo piece (for example, counter Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker because he combos with Zealous Conscripts). Also remember that your counter magic that tucks things (Hinder and Spell Crumple) are best used on opponents' generals.Note: tucking commanders is no longer effective, since your opponent now has the option to return their commander to the command zone instead.Torpor Orb turns off most of this deck, so that card is a must-answer if you see it in your meta. Only remove or counter threats if you don't think you will live long enough to answer it later or if you think waiting will leave you unable to respond later.
If you have ramped quickly, you can cast your commander; however, if you do, keep in mind that you will want a way to protect him. His ability to blink other creatures can be used both offensively (blink one of your own creatures to trigger another etb effect), or defensively (blink an attacking creature), but he cannot blink himself. If you have another blink engine in your hand, you can play a bit more reckless with your general. This is also an option if an opponent is screwed on mana - since your general has vigilance, you can attack an unprotected opponent with virtually no downside and rack up commander damage.
Game saver or game ender.
Mid Game (turns 5-9)
At this point in the game, you should be ready to land a threat and protect it. You have kept the board relatively clear until now, and you are ready to go on the offensive. Keep in mind that these are the critical turns for this deck, and that lost tempo in these turns can spell your death. You will want to keep your hand full with your draw spells like Mulldrifter and you will always want to have an instant-speed answer on hand to combat any threat.
Cards that you should be looking for at this stage in the game are Acidic Slime, Spike Weaver, Prophet of Kruphix, Perplexing Chimera, Panharmonicon, and Duplicant. These creatures all put you in a very powerful position to protect yourself, and most of them will stop a deck in its tracks if you have a blink engine out. These are the turns where you should consider playing your general, Roon of the Hidden Realm. Be mindful to only cast vital cards like Prophet of Kruphix if you have a way to protect her, as keeping her alive usually ends games quickly.
As with the early game, you must always be aware of what your opponents are doing. If you have threats that must be answered, you can do that with your instant speed removal (for example, Swords to Plowshares) or you can tutor for creature answers like Ixidron or Duplicant. These creatures can typically answer any creature-based threat that you may face. However, always remember that you have removal for other types of cards like artifacts or enchantments in the form of Reclamation Sage.
Who needs friends.
Late Game (turns 10+)
In the late game, this deck wants to find a way to abuse ETB triggers to close out games. Common plays are to pair a Deadeye Navigator with Acidic Slime to blow up everyone else's lands, or to repeatedly blink an Angel of Serenity to remove opponents' creatures and to bring your own creatures from your graveyard to your hand.
Prophet of Kruphix allows you to keep the blinking going during every turn. With her out, you will get way more mileage out of Deadeye Navigator, you'll get extra blinks with Roon of the Hidden Realm, and you can keep mana up for counter spells. Also with the prophet out, having a blink engine and Perplexing Chimera is usually the end of the game, as you can use the chimera's ability on opponents' spells, then blink the chimera before the end of the turn so that it will come back under your control. Because you get to untap your creatures and lands, you can probably do this each turn, effectively preventing your opponents from playing spells because you can take them.Prophet of Kruphix - banned, but not forgotten!
Another card that keeps the juice flowing in the late game is Panharmonicon. Most of the game, up to this point, has been played with an eye towards creating a solid board state and being able to blink our creatures for massive value. This card doubles those effects - it amplifies what we're already trying to do!
Knowing when and how to use your commander properly will make this deck more effective.
While Roon of the Hidden Realm is powerful, he is not necessary to winning with this deck. Ordinarily, you will want to cast him in the mid game, at a time where you can protect him with counter magic. The reason for this is that he becomes very expensive to cast as he dies and goes back to the command zone multiple times. Since he has vigilance, you will typically want to attack with him first, and use his ability before the end of your turn if you want the creature back that turn (like Acidic Slime), or before an opponent ends his or her turn, if you just want the etb trigger before you draw again (like Wood Elves).
It is important to note that Roon cannot blink himself away. Therefore, other blink enablers like Mistmeadow Witch can be helpful if you want to protect your commander from removal or a board wipe. However, when facing a board wipe, you will typically want to blink only the creature that will help you rebuild the most quickly - creatures like Sun Titan help recur creatures that have been lost, and creatures like Prophet of Kruphix are important to keep alive due to their explosive nature.
It is best to think of your commander as a very situational blink engine. He's got a decent-sized body, but you typically will not be winning with commander damage. He is best used when you have another creature on the field that you can blink and get far ahead of your opponents, or when you need to blink an opponent's attacking creature to protect yourself (or to protect another opponent, if it will help you win the game later on).
Important Synergies
Him plus a blink enabler is nasty.
In addition to learning how to use your general as a tool, it is important to look for certain synergies in this deck that keep it going in the mid-late game. Such synergies include:
The Recursion Engine: This deck is effective because it is versatile, resilient, and can answer opponents' threats. While playing this deck, it is inevitable that your creatures will die. You will also often lose creatures that are important to winning. One strong trait of this deck is its ability to bounce back. The deck does this using a set of cards that can recur your threats to bring them back again and again. Eternal Witness, Karmic Guide, Reveillark, Sun Titan, and Angel of Serenity all have the ability to bring cards back to your hand or to the battlefield.
-With Eternal Witness, the important thing to remember is that this is the only card in your deck that you can recur any card from your graveyard to your hand.
-With Karmic Guide, you typically want to bring another recursion piece back to the battlefield, as the guide is one of the few cards that has no condition on the size or casting cost of the creature you recur, and remember that the creature you choose goes strait to the battlefield.
-With Reveillark, keep in mind that he recurs creatures only when he LEAVES the battlefield - so make sure you have a way to either kill him OR blink him.
-With Sun Titan, you will want to remember that he triggers both when he enters the battlefield AND when he attacks, but his recursion is restricted to cards with 3 CMC or less (but is not restricted to creatures!).
-With Angel of Serenity can be used to bring creatures back to your hand by exiling creatures from your graveyard, and then making him leave the battlefield (best done by blinking him). It is important to note that you can also use his trigger to exile opponents' creatures from the battlefield, but when he leaves play (like when you blink him), those creatures will return to their owners' hands.
Mangara of Corondor: You can use this card with certain blink enablers to permanently exile any other permanent. This is done by first activating Mangara (targeting, for example, an opponent's Phyrexian Arena). While Mangara's ability is on the stack, you then blink Mangara away until the next end step (for example, using Roon of the Hidden Realm targeting Mangara). You then let the ablities resolve. First Roon's ability will resolve, which will exile Mangara. Then Mangara's ability will resolve, exiling Phyrexian Arena. Mangara will not be exiled with his own trigger because he is already in exile. Then you move to the end step, and Mangara comes back from Roon's delayed trigger.
Locking out the board: This deck has multiple ways to effectively prevent opponents from being able to play spells. In order to do this every turn, Prophet of Kruphix must be in play. With her in play, having a blink engine like Roon of the Hidden Realm will allow you to blink one creature a turn. If you also have Perplexing Chimera out, that means you can use the chimera's ability on the first spell played by each opponent each turn, and then you can use Roon's ability on the chimera before the end of turn, and the chimera will return to the battlefield under your control (and you keep the spell you stole with the chimera). While having Prophet of Kruphix and Roon of the Hidden Realm in play, you can also use Glen Elendra Archmage once each turn, and then blink her away at the end of each turn so that she will return to the battlefield with no persist counters. In this way, you can prevent opponents from playing at least 1 non-creature spell per turn. Though the deck can still effectively lock players out of playing, it is more difficult without the now-banned Prophet of Kruphix.
Tutor Targets
Recursion on a big body.
This deck has a few tutors in the deck, and knowing when to tutor for certain cards in certain situations will enable you to pilot it to success. But it takes practice. Note that there are 3 tutor spells in the deck, and 2 of them only tutor a creature (and one of those restricts the creature to green). When considering the pointers below, the same targets apply for when you are tutoring using Birthing Pod.
Stops many combos.
If you do not need any particular answer to a threat, by far the most common tutor target is Prophet of Kruphix. This card is absolutely nuts in this deck. Combining her with many other cards in the deck allows for very degenerate plays that few decks can bounce back from. As stated above, if you play this creature, make sure to have a way to protect her. However, otherpopular targets are Birthing Pod and Survival of the Fittest, as both of those cards can help you speed up how quickly you put threats on the board.
For problematic creatures, you should look to tutor for Ixidron, Spike Weaver, Duplicant, or Angel of Serenity depending on the type of creature you want to remove and the type of tutor you are using.
If you are low on cards, you will want to tutor for either Mulldrifter or Prime Speaker Zegana. Make sure you only choose the latter if you have a decent sized creature on the battlefield already.
If your graveyard is full of things you want back, you should consider tutoring for a recursion engine. Options include Eternal Witness, Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Sun Titan, or Angel of Serenity, depending on the type of card(s) you want back from the graveyard and what you can afford to cast.
If you are facing a combo deck, you might want to consider tutoring for Glen Elendra Archmage, as she is resilient and stops many combos.
Paths to Victory
Paths to victory: so in what ways does this deck win? Although limited in its finishers, this deck has a few ways to finish out games.
Combat Damage: The most common win condition from this deck is combat damage, usually coming in the form of 10 or so damage per turn from various creatures. The reason for this is that the deck is geared to control the board, so the damage that the deck puts out isn't astronomical. Most often the deck wins after everyone else's creatures are dead, and you are attacking with creatures like Roon of the Hidden Realm and Sun Titan repeatedly.
Commander Damage: Similar to the previous win condition, another way this deck commonly wins is through commander damage (Roon hitting one particular opponent for at least 21 combat damage). Because the deck plays a very control-oriented game, and because our commander has vigilance, this allows Roon to attack often.
Board Control (scooping): Another common "win" for this deck is causing opposing players to "scoop", or to quit. Although this is not a very fun way to win, my meta has begun to recognize when my deck has conditions such that they cannot successfully cast a spell. Although they could drag the game out and make me attack for 10 damage a turn, my friends have now turned to scooping to me at that point. Cards such as Prophet of Kruphix+Roon of the Hidden Realm+(Acidic Slime, Perplexing Chimera, or Glen Elendra Archmage) generally force a scoop.
Deck Weaknesses
Turns off most of our deck.
You’ll need to know your deck’s weaknesses in order to be successful. This deck has a few:
Torpor Orb and the newly-printed Hushwing Gryff will neuter this deck's strength. Be on the lookout for these cards, and be prepared to either counter them or have a way to destroy them if they resolve. For the orb, your options include Qasali Pridemage and Krosan Grip. For the gryff, your options include Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares. These are cards that will demand immediate answers.
Quick token generation: although this deck packs a few sweepers, quick token generation decks have a tendency to outrace this deck, and one of our answers to many creatures that is easy to tutor for, Ixidron, does not affect tokens. In this situation, hope to draw into a sweeper or use Mystical Tutor for a sweeper.
Mass Exile: Cards like Final Judgment and Merciless Eviction can do serious damage to this deck, as part of our resilience lies in being able to recur a large portion of our deck. Besides countering those spells, the only answer our deck has is to be sure not to overextend our resources, and keep mana open to blink our most valuable creatures, should one of these spells resolve.
Dedicated Combo: Some decks dedicate all their resources to spitting out a combo and protecting it. Although this deck packs some counter magic and instant-speed recursion, it also uses a lot of mana once it gets going, and it's possible to not have an answer to a quick combo going off. The best way to combat this is the learn what card(s) signal that a combo is coming, and to keep answers ready when you see the signs (or general) that heralds an impending combo.
Slow Kill Condition: One criticism of this deck is that it lacks a consistent win condition. This is more a complaint that I get from a select few friends who think that a deck should have a way to win *very* quickly. Personally I think this depends on your meta and the types of players you face, but it is a valid critique that many of this deck's wins come slowly over drawn-out turns rather that all-at-once on the heels of a flashy card. If your group really wants you to win quickly, you could swap out a few cards and put in Tooth and Nail, Craterhoof Behemoth, and Avenger of Zendikar, but in practice I found that win condition boring.
Sample Hands, Mulligans
Hand #1
Hand: Coiling Oracle, Reveillark, Birthing Pod, Arcane Denial, City of Brass, Flooded Strand, Forest
Keep or Mulligan?: Snap keep. This is a nearly-perfect hand.
Reasoning: This hand has it all: plenty of mana, including mana fixing in the form of a fetchland; control in the form of counter magic (which will help you draw); an early ramp creature, a recursion engine, and a tutor engine. I would not expect a game with this hand to last very long. Coiling Oracle into Pod, then beginning a pod chain depending on the opponents.
Hand #2
Hand: Noble Hierarch, Wood Elves, Ixidron, Island, Seaside Citadel, Krosan Verge, Temple of Mystery
Keep or Mulligan?: Probably mulligan, or partial-paris mulligan.
Reasoning: This is a close call. Unfortunately this deck has some "do nothing" hands due to the amount of ramp we use. This hand will give us great mana, and we have a creature answer in the form of Ixidron, but that's it. This hand depends on its draws to find some "juice", or some creature that has an offensive etb trigger. Fortunately for the hand, it also has a scryland, which might push this hand into keep territory. There are decent arguments to be had for keeping or mulligan-ing this hand.
Hand #3
Hand: Venser, the Sojourner, Luminate Primordial, Qasali Pridemage, Oracle of Mul Daya, Kodama's Reach, Faerie Conclave, Reliquary Tower
Keep or Mulligan?: Mulligan, or partial-paris mulligan.
Reasoning: This looks like a great hand, but in reality this hand will probably kill you. It's got a lot of great stuff, including ramp, but you only have access to 1 single blue mana. Keeping this hand would mean that you have to wait and pray you draw a green source of mana, which is a losing proposition. Remember that this deck is primarily green centered - the ramp is all green or colorless. Without access to a green mana source in the opening hand, I don't think I could keep any hand from this deck.
Personal Bio
My name is Dave. I’m 32 years old and live in Northwest Indiana. I started playing Magic in early 1995, but took a long break when I went away for college in 2003. I began playing EDH in 2011, when I came back to magic after an 8-year hiatus (for college and law school). Some friends and I dusted off our old cards and started hitting up the local gaming shops, where we quickly learned we’d fallen WAY behind in terms of rules, deck composition, and card pool knowledge. We went to work building many decks and testing against each other.
I play all formats, although my favorite is EDH. I am semi-competitive in standard and modern, and generally keep up with those formats. I have played legacy in the past, but that format is not popular in my area and so I do not play it often. I tend to prefer creature-based strategies, and avoid combo or control; however, I also like to build outside my comfort zone so I am willing to play any strategy.
Change Log
3/20/14:
+Wood Elves
-Courser of Kruphix I wanted to try out a new card, seemed like it was popular in standard so I think it should work well in this deck.
-Thassa, God of the Sea I realized I had 1 too many cards in my deck. This had been decent, but I was winning without it and I wanted to use this copy in standard.
+Voidslime
+Seedborn Muse
-Oracle of Mul Daya
-Conjurer's Closet The Oracle and Closet were both decent cards, and performed okay, but nothing spectacular. The Closet is just too slow for what it does, and the Oracle is decent but as the deck becomes more powerful with more draw power, the need to filtering is reduced.
+Gilded Drake
-Bant Charm I actually made this change some time ago, but just realized I forgot to add it to my list. Gilded Drake is extremely powerful in this deck. I wasn't wild about Bant Charm, with it's restrictive color requirements, and the rest of the deck has solid removal so I felt I could lose this one.
Change Log 5/29/15:
+Dissipate, -Hinder With the advent of the commander tuck rule (if your commander is tucked, you can instead put it back in the command zone) I feel the tuck counterspells became less effective. There are more times now that I'd rather exile an opponent's spell than tuck it, as the tuck was a way to combat certain commanders. I'll probably end up later cutting Spell Crumple to be replaced with Faerie Trickery, but I just haven't gotten my hands on one yet.
Change Log 7/8/16: (some of these changes happened in January of 2016)
-Treetop Village
-Wood Elves
-Voidslime
+Panharmonicon
+Clever Impersonator
+Eldrazi Displacer Panharmonicon is obviously a powerhouse in this deck, as is Eldrazi Displacer. I saw Clever Impersonator being played very effectively lately and I wanted to give it a try. I decided to risk going down to 37 lands because I knew I'd be addressing some mana fixing in a later update (see update dated 11/15/16), and for the same reason felt safe removing Wood Elves. Voidslime is a good card, but its mana requirements are harsh and I wanted to be a bit more proactive; this is a card that I will consider putting back in any time a card underperforms.
-Farseek
-Academy Rector
+Commander's Sphere
+Chromatic Lantern Farseek is a solid card, but it was not very strong. Having played against Commander's Sphere more and more, I appreciate the card more. The sphere is also much better late-game, and has synergy with Sun Titan. Academy Rector is great, and can tutor some of our strongest cards in Survival of the Fittest and Aura Shards; however, I do not have a way to consistently kill him. Therefore, I swapped him for some more fixing, which I had a few struggles with. Chromatic Lantern is great fixing, can be brought back with Sun Titan, and will allow me to play more liberally with utility land without sacrificing my mana symbol needs.
1/20/17:
-Swan Song
+Disallow Swan Song has been solid in helping compete in a competitive meta; however, it misses some key cards and cannot hit abilities. Disallow costs more, but what it loses in efficiency, it makes up for in flexibility.
I'm curious about Ixidron. How do you use this card effectively without rendering Roon useless? Does it require Conjurer's Closet or another blink enabler?
EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
I'm curious about Ixidron. How do you use this card effectively without rendering Roon useless? Does it require Conjurer's Closet or another blink enabler?
First, regarding Ixidron - this card has been an absolute house for me. Yes, he would leave my Roon dead, but he's in the deck more as a tutor-able wrath effect and general-tucker. If I'm behind on board state, there are a ton of ways for me to get him: Birthing Pod, Eladamri's Call, Wargate (if you run it). He's been fantastic and I'd encourage you to test him out for yourself.
Second, TBH, I'd include an Oracle of Mul Daya, but I just haven't gotten my hands on one yet. Thanks for the catch - he'll be on my want list!
No worries! I was hoping you'd post your list, I'm glad I got to check it out. Yeah, Oracle of Mul Daya's a terrific card, but my only copy is in my Zegana deck along with my Sylvan Library and Spike Weaver.
I'm beginning to wonder if I should run a couple more counterspells and/or spot removal spells in my own decklist. If anything, I'll have to test Mangara of Corondor--that card is too easily abusable with reliable blink enablers in play.
I'll take your endorsement and pick up an Ixidron in the next couple of days. I'm looking forward to getting some more games in with this deck though I must admit I'm still torn on whether or not to include Skullclamp. It seems like a shame not to include it in my deck when I'm running 10 possible targets for it. Plus, the added card advantage could occasionally draw me into Sun Titan, Karmic Guide, Reveillark, or Eternal Witness, enabling me to recycle my clamp targets. A chance to clamp Coiling Oracle once a turn with Roon and Sun Titan in play is an extremely tempting proposition.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
I must admit I'm still torn on whether or not to include Skullclamp. It seems like a shame not to include it in my deck when I'm running 10 possible targets for it. Plus, the added card advantage could occasionally draw me into Sun Titan, Karmic Guide, Reveillark, or Eternal Witness, enabling me to recycle my clamp targets. A chance to clamp Coiling Oracle once a turn with Roon and Sun Titan in play is an extremely tempting proposition.
True, that's not a bad scenario, but remember that bouncing Prime Speaker Zegana with Roon out will draw you even more and require less cards to do so. My main draw engine is flickering Zegana or Mulldrifter, both of which require less cards than the clamp scenario above. Bonus: both Zegana and Mulldrifter are recurrable with Reveillark, tutorable with Birthing Pod and Eladamri's Call, and are free card draw with Conjurer's Closet.
It's a close call, just play with the clamp and let me know what you think after some testing.
Good point, once again. The clamp is certainly going to stay on the chopping block. I'm running Enlightened Tutor in its place at the moment, so I'll stick with that for now and see how useful I find it.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Got a few games in with Roon last night, so I thought I'd drop in to leave a raving review of my new pal Perplexing Chimera. This card is so much fun, even without ready access to a blink enabler.
I think you should make room for Perplexing Chimera. Maybe you could cut Fact or Fiction, if you aren't too attached to it.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Got a few games in with Roon last night, so I thought I'd drop in to leave a raving review of my new pal Perplexing Chimera. This card is so much fun, even without ready access to a blink enabler.
Perplexing Chimera seems like good fun, but it needs to be on the field when the spell is cast for the ability to trigger. Flashing it in isn't especially productive except when done preemptively.
Perplexing Chimera seems like good fun, but it needs to be on the field when the spell is cast for the ability to trigger. Flashing it in isn't especially productive except when done preemptively.
Thanks for pointing that out. It didn't dawn on me that the ability triggers when spells are cast. I may have flashed in the Chimera during his upkeep, and if I did, he failed to realize it was on the field when he chose to play Genesis Wave. We played into the wee hours, so we were all at the breaking point by the time it happened.
At the very least, Chimera is an awesome deterrent and will either demand answers or draw out bait spells from opponents trying to drop bombs.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
I've only played with Roon a couple of times, but I wanted to go ahead and mention these:
-I like Skyshroud Claim over Darksteel Ingot. It's a different CMC but helps a little more with the deck being 3 colors. The only time I wouldn't suggest it is if you have a lot of MLD you play against.
-Fierce Empath. He's useful at any point in the game and helps with just about any type of target you're needing.
-Crystal Shard: It ain't no Conjurer's Closet, but it blanks your opponent's removal and let's you essentially blink stuff during the late game when you have excess mana.
-Sea Gate Oracle
Soul of the Harvest
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Current Decks
Standard: Mono Red #GetSwol
Elsewhere: Random Brews All Day, Erreday
~
I've been enjoying my new Roon deck a lot for multiplayer. I think the deck lends itself to some very fun builds, and it's been surpisingly powerful... I think mainly because it naturally plays the political game very well. Roon gives you a lot of answers and incremental value plays without doing anything too threatening until the late game when you really start going off. Roon's just really good at sitting right at the sweet spot in terms of threat level; not looking weak/vulnerable while rarely being the most immediate threat during the early turns.
Anyway, some of my thoughts on your list, in no particular order:
- This depends on the other decks in your playgroup, but I'd run a couple more cheap cantrip creatures (I think you could use a few more low-drops and blink targets, and those are both). You're already running the best one, Coiling Oracle, but Wall of Blossoms, Wall of Omens, Elvish Visionary, and Sea Gate Oracle are all worth considering (though I don't know if I'd run all of them). These gain value if your playgroup has a lot of aggro (don't underestimate the power of being the only player with a 2-mana potential chump blocker when the aggro player is deciding who to attack first). They lose some value if your playgroup is all hardcore combo vs. hardcore control (where you probably want more non-creature counters/removal that additional creatures would replace).
- Green Sun's Zenith. I run more green toolbox creatures than you do, but even so, I like this a lot. It's ramp/fixing, it's another out to Torpor Orb by fetching Qasali Pridemage (which is something I like to have a lot of, but YMMV), it finds a blink enabler if Roon has been tucked, and of course it finds various good stuff like Prophet or Prime Speaker.
- If you don't want to run GSZ, I think you should replace Pridemage with Sylvok Replica for your "Artifact hate recurred by Sun Titan and Reveillark" slot. On paper Replica is inferior, but Pridemage's numerous advantages are barely relevant in EDH, while Replica has one huge advantage: you can find it with Birthing Pod. Technically your list can also find Pridemage, but only off of Noble Hierarch. With Replica, Pod + 2-drop gets you a recur-able disenchant that still works under a Torpor Orb. (And again, I'd be running a couple more 2-drops) I have Pridemage in my deck, but I'd definitely make that swap if I ever cut Green Sun's Zenith.
- This is another metagame thing, but I like running at least a couple lifegain creatures. My playgroup has several aggressive or "bleeder" decks that often do large-but-not-infinite amounts of damage/life loss, though, so once again YMMV.
1) I play against quite a bit of MLD and nonbasic LD, so I've found Darksteel Ingot to be quite important.
2) Fierce Empath is a card I've definitely considered, and I might test it next week to see how it would go. What would you suggest to cut to make room?
3) I considered Crystal Shard when I was first making the deck; however, I've found that by the time I'm wanting to protect/recast my creatures, I need to be on the offensive. Putting the card back in my hand slows me down for a turn, even if it will save my creature. None of my creatures, save maybe my finishers in Angel of Serenity and Luminate Primordial, are cards that I cannot live without.
4) Sea Gate Oracle is a card I've definitely been considering, especially since I've recently cut a 2 CMC creature in Snapcaster Mage. What would you cut for it?
5) Soul of the Harvest is another card I had in my original list but did not make the cut. Usually I'm finishing the game with Rite of Replication on one of my fatties, unblockable creatures with Thassa, God of the Sea, or board lock with Glen Elendra Archmage. If I find myself needing to finish the game more quickly, I might take another look at this guy.
Wombat:
1) Hrm, I thought Wood Elves was already in my list, thanks for pointing that out! I'll cut a rock for it, or maybe Courser of Kruphix. What would you cut?
2) I agree with you to an extent, and I'm considering adding Sea Gate Oracle, but I rarely find myself struggling against aggro in my meta. Thankfully I also have a lot of outs with 2 sweepers, Ixidron, and Spike Weaver.
3 and 4) I'm a forum n00b and I have Green Sun's Zenith in my list, but I'd put a "1X" in front of it, so it didn't show. Good call!
5) I had a few lifegain creatures in the original list. I had Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and Thragtusk but my meta is such that I'm generally not losing by combat damage. If the meta changes, I will be sure to take another look at these types of cards.
I've been enjoying my new Roon deck a lot for multiplayer. I think the deck lends itself to some very fun builds, and it's been surpisingly powerful... I think mainly because it naturally plays the political game very well. Roon gives you a lot of answers and incremental value plays without doing anything too threatening until the late game when you really start going off. Roon's just really good at sitting right at the sweet spot in terms of threat level; not looking weak/vulnerable while rarely being the most immediate threat during the early turns.
Man, you guys are super lucky. Most of the players in my group feel so threatened just having me at the table that I'll often get targeted in the early game for virtually no reason. "We can't let you just sit there and slow roll the whole table," they explain. Friends like these, huh. I guess that's just as flattering as it is frustrating, but STILL. I even got hated on when I was playing Group Hug, haha.
Also, Outcryqq, I notice you're running Asceticism, so I thought I'd point out that Privileged Position is almost a strict upgrade for the same CMC, unless you're in it for regeneration.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
About Skyshroud Claim:
It's my personal favorite ramp spell, but I don't deal with MLD hardly at all, so it may be crummy in that environment. But it rally enables some nut draws. For example, I just played a game where I played Skyshroud Claim at 4 mana and then used the fetched forests to cast a farseeek. Having access to 8 mana on turn 5, I played a Solumn Simulacrum and Birthing Pod then sacrificed the Simulacrum to pod out Prophet of Kruphix and cast a Consecrated Sphinx on the next player's upkeep. Total chaos.
Sea Gate Oracle has been so-so, but it definitely helps at most points in the game.
As for what I would cut, I'm not a huge fan of countermagic in my deck but, I understand why you would want to play them. My personal preference though would be to cut Rewind and Spell Crumple for the two cards.
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I think Nature's Lore is a bit of an upgrade. It's more limited, but still fetches 4 of 6 dual/shock lands and brings them into play untapped.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Nice to see your updated list Outcry. I've made a bunch of changes to my Roon list as well since our last posts over on my "Goodnight Roon" thread, so if you wanted to compare notes, probably the best place to check would be my Tappedout list - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/goodnight-roon/
I've gone a bit more combo-tastic since my first build, but even if you don't want to go that way (and I totally understand if you don't - it's highly group specific), there are a few things I'd recommend from my experience. Champion of Lambholt is really good, and probably merits a spot. The sad reality is that because we're playing ETB creatures, at any given point in the curve our creatures tend to be smaller than the big dumb creatures of our opponents. Champion turns our army of 2/2's-stapled-to-Vindicates into legit kill cons even on a stalled board. Sometimes you just need to get in there for a few extra points, after all. I'd probably take out Courser of Kruphix if I had to decide - I'm not sure Oracle of Mul Daya minus the ramp is worth it, but then again I haven't playtested it.
I know with a competitive list the idea is to keep the curve low, but Venser, Shaper Savant is enough better than Man-o'-war that it probably merits a straight 1-for-1 swap. Sometimes the difference between "creature" and "permanent" is game winning, and in a pinch it's a bad Remand that can also hit Supreme Verdict.
Speaking of Verdict, is there a reason you're running Wrath over it? I know Verdict is harder to cast in a vacuum, but you're not likely to be the guy who wants to blow up the world on turn 4 anyway. For this deck, Wrath effects are a tool of last resort when the board has gotten out of hand. We're pretty creature-heavy, after all. I find that most of the time I pull the trigger on a mass creature destruction spell, it's turn 7 or later when someone has just dumped their hand on the field and is threatening to 1-shot half the table. Turn 7, you should be able to cast whatever 4 mana spell you want, and uncounterability can really matter. More than regeneration, at least.
Arcane Denial has always seemed like a card that you only run because you already have Mana Drain and Counterspell in the deck, and you just need one more hard counter to fill out a permission suite. I don't think I'd ever run it before those others though. Mana Drains are expensive, but Counterspells are cheap - it seems like it'd be a pretty easy swap.
I know it's already on your list of "I'm testing this," but I can't recommend Gilded Drake enough. You're already running it's bigger cousin Perplexing Chimera, so you know how much fun stealing things and blinking can be. Pull the trigger. They're kinda pricey, but totally worth it.
All in all though, I really like how the list is shaping up! Hope you are having fun with it!
Thanks Bokonon! Yeah I've been very happy with the list so far.
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head regarding going more combo - my group tends to move away from combo, so I find myself keeping out quite a few cards that would work in here if I went combo. I had Champion of Lambholt in my original list, but I took it out because my 3 CMC spot was quite full and I usually can get in on a stalled board with either Thassa, God of the Sea or Venser, the Sojourner.
Venser, Shaper Savant likely warrants playtesting, to be sure. I've been happy with Man-o'-War so far because it's low on the curve and can be an early threat mitigator, but he's probably one of the cards that's most on the chopping block at this point. Have you tested Venser out much? How has he performed for you?
You're right about Supreme Verdict. The only reason I currently have Wrath of God in there over it is because all my copies of Verdict are currently in my standard Esper Control deck.
I love Arcane Denial. You're right, I can't afford a Mana Drain, but I like Arcane Denial over Counterspell in EDH 100% of the time because it's another source of card draw and it's easier to cast early in the game.
Yeah, I'm in the market for a Gilded Drake, once I spot one at my LGS I will swap him in.
I tried out Strionic Resonator and I was underwhelmed. It just seemed too slow for me. I also had Leyline of Anticipation in my original list, but it got dropped because there are quite a few times it's just a dead card to me. Another reason it got the boot is because Prophet of Kruphix gives me that ability as well, and creatures are easier to search for in my list than are noncreature permanents.
Good call on Privileged Position! I think I had seen it once before but couldn't remember the name of it. I'll probably switch it in for Aceticism.
Sower of Temptation might be better than Control Magic. You can blink Sower to steal a new creature and you can birthing pod in to Sower.
I would also highly suggest Venser, Shaper Savant. He's always good and he becomes too good when paired with Deadeye. You could cut Man-o'-war or maybe even a conterspell. Rewind, maybe?
I know you already play Prophet, but it seems like you always want an untap effect. So would also adding Seedborn Muse be fine or would it be too redundant?
Chord of Calling is also a great card. You can tutor up any one of your creatures at instant speed. You could cut a variety of cards for this card. Eldrami's Call or maybe Green Sun's Zenith. All three seem like very playable cards though
Mystic Snake is a great card. I would cut rewind for it. It can be tutored up at instant speed with Eldrami's Call, Chord of calling if you add it, Survival of the Fittest if you add it. It can also be paired with Deadeye Navigator. It can't effectively be blinked by Roon, but neither can Rewind.
Mangara of Corondor has been an absolute house for me. She comboes super well with blinking as you can activate the ability and then temporarily exile her w/ Roon or something else and then their permanent is exiled without the drawback. AND it's recursive. Try her out.
Pretty much the same deal with Fiend Hunter. Exile their dude. Blink before Hunter's second trigger resolves, and then your opponent's threat is gone for good. And when Fiend Hunter reenters, you get to exile a new dude.
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Mangara of Corondor has been an absolute house for me. She comboes super well with blinking as you can activate the ability and then temporarily exile her w/ Roon or something else and then their permanent is exiled without the drawback. AND it's recursive. Try her out.
Pretty much the same deal with Fiend Hunter. Exile their dude. Blink before Hunter's second trigger resolves, and then your opponent's threat is gone for good. And when Fiend Hunter reenters, you get to exile a new dude.
The problem I see with Fiend Hunter (and his kid brother Banisher Priest) is that maximizing its utility requires an instant-speed blink engine. Anyone who has even an inkling as to what this deck is capable of won't let Roon stay on the field long enough to abuse Fiend Hunter with. Granted, this is meta-specific, but my play group uses lots of efficient spot removal to regulate player advantage.
A better argument can be made for Mangara of Corondor because it's more versatile, but it's still reliant on a blink enabler if you want to reuse it, and it has to stick around for a turn without something like Thousand-Year Elixir. I recently took out Mangara for Sea Gate Oracle, which gets some value immediately and is much less threatening on a blink stick than repeatable permanent removal. Personally, I'd sooner add Survival of the Fittest, Mirror Entity and Venser, Shaper Savant for a single combo-like win condition, because all of those cards are great in their own right, without requiring any support. (On that note, Karmic Guide + Reveillark + Mirror Entity + Venser/Acidic Slime/etc. is the only combo I run in my own deck, because it's just that much fun!)
So, unsurprisingly, I'll third the recommendation for Venser, Shaper Savant. He's a veritable badass.
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EDH: B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern: WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Entropic Melody: Sower of Temptation looks good, and I like the idea of Control Magic on an ETB body. My question is this - does the ability (and stolen creature) remain, even when I blink him? Or by "new creature" do you just mean that if something bigger and better comes along, that I can blink the sower to get it instead? Either way, he looks good.
Yeah I definitely will be putting in Venser, Shaper Savant as soon as I locate one to pick up.
I might try to pick up Seedborn Muse. I love the effect, but like you said, with all my tutors and recursion, I'm generally able to play Prophet of Kruphix whenever I want. If I find more people removing him from game, I will definitely consider adding the muse as another option.
I had Chord of Calling in my original list, and it was decent. However, I started moving away from tutors a bit, and I kept only what I felt were my most powerful tutors. The issue I had with chord was that I was not finding myself swimming in a ton of creatures that would help with the convoke cost (although from the looks of my list, I SHOULD be swimming in creatures). But you're right in that it's a very playable card, and I've been on the fence about putting it back in. I love Eladamri's Call because it's instant, and I've enjoyed Green Sun's Zenith due to it's ability for me to snatch a Dryad Arbor first turn for massive ramp or to begin a pod chain. I will give more thought while testing.
I also had Mystic Snake in my original list, but ended up cutting it. As my list currently stands, I can only use it effectively while in hand, with Eladamri's Call, and DEN. In the 4-slot for recursive countering, I prefer Glen Elendra Archmage because at the same 4 CMC spot, I have a creature that I still can use with any of blink enablers. Although it hits fewer cards, I'm generally not having problems removing the types of spells that she won't hit. She's also a blocker in a pinch with persist. I've really enjoyed Rewind as it's counter magic that still lets me keep up mana for other things I need, like Roon's ability.
BFFchili: Yeah I will definitely try out Mangara of Corondor as soon as I pick up a copy. I'm not too sold on Fiend Hunter, as I have other great ways of dealing with creatures. Mangara's ability to hit any permanent is very powerful and I look forward to testing with her. Glad to see you've liked her.
Spentbullets: I agree with you on Fiend Hunter. I do like Sea Gate Oracle and am considering adding him in, but so far I haven't had much trouble with card draw in my deck. Generally by the time I have a blink enabler online, I'm ready to blink for massive value. This is the reason I'm considering dropping cards that have smaller effects when blinked (Man-o'-War being the prime suspect).
Update: Picked up Mangara of Corondor, played a few games, cast him once. Initial reaction - I like him, though I got some cross-eyed looks from people who either didn't believe or didn't like his interaction with Roon. I cut Man-o'-War for him, goodbye to a pet card!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsAlso, why Courser of Kruphix and not Oracle of Mul Daya?
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Hey spent, thanks for the feedback.
First, regarding Ixidron - this card has been an absolute house for me. Yes, he would leave my Roon dead, but he's in the deck more as a tutor-able wrath effect and general-tucker. If I'm behind on board state, there are a ton of ways for me to get him: Birthing Pod, Eladamri's Call, Wargate (if you run it). He's been fantastic and I'd encourage you to test him out for yourself.
Second, TBH, I'd include an Oracle of Mul Daya, but I just haven't gotten my hands on one yet. Thanks for the catch - he'll be on my want list!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI'm beginning to wonder if I should run a couple more counterspells and/or spot removal spells in my own decklist. If anything, I'll have to test Mangara of Corondor--that card is too easily abusable with reliable blink enablers in play.
I'll take your endorsement and pick up an Ixidron in the next couple of days. I'm looking forward to getting some more games in with this deck though I must admit I'm still torn on whether or not to include Skullclamp. It seems like a shame not to include it in my deck when I'm running 10 possible targets for it. Plus, the added card advantage could occasionally draw me into Sun Titan, Karmic Guide, Reveillark, or Eternal Witness, enabling me to recycle my clamp targets. A chance to clamp Coiling Oracle once a turn with Roon and Sun Titan in play is an extremely tempting proposition.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
True, that's not a bad scenario, but remember that bouncing Prime Speaker Zegana with Roon out will draw you even more and require less cards to do so. My main draw engine is flickering Zegana or Mulldrifter, both of which require less cards than the clamp scenario above. Bonus: both Zegana and Mulldrifter are recurrable with Reveillark, tutorable with Birthing Pod and Eladamri's Call, and are free card draw with Conjurer's Closet.
It's a close call, just play with the clamp and let me know what you think after some testing.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsB Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
My friends were playing Sen Triplets, Scion of the Ur-Dragon, and Omnath, Locus of Mana. Triplets player scooped after burning out and losing an early Karn Liberated to a 3v1 assault, so I was left with the other two. Long story short, Perplexing Chimera, Aura Shards and a clone of someone else's Prophet of Kruphix in play enabled me to steal Scion, in the process destroying the Chimera and sending it to my graveyard with Aura Shards, then Omnath cast Genesis Wave for 13 and I flashed in Eternal Witness followed by Perplexing Chimera and stole his spell. The game was pretty much over after that.
I think you should make room for Perplexing Chimera. Maybe you could cut Fact or Fiction, if you aren't too attached to it.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Haha good call, I've had Perplexing Chimera in my deck but it somehow was left off my list. I agree - it's fantastic!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsRoon of the Pod People (Roon of the Hidden Realm)
Sydri, Super Genius (Sydri, Galvanic Genius)
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Retired:
Grimgrin's Corpse-Beats (Grimgrin, Corpse-Born) | Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge | Varolz, the Scar-Striped (1v1) | Glissa, the Traitor
Thanks for pointing that out. It didn't dawn on me that the ability triggers when spells are cast. I may have flashed in the Chimera during his upkeep, and if I did, he failed to realize it was on the field when he chose to play Genesis Wave. We played into the wee hours, so we were all at the breaking point by the time it happened.
At the very least, Chimera is an awesome deterrent and will either demand answers or draw out bait spells from opponents trying to drop bombs.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
-I like Skyshroud Claim over Darksteel Ingot. It's a different CMC but helps a little more with the deck being 3 colors. The only time I wouldn't suggest it is if you have a lot of MLD you play against.
-Fierce Empath. He's useful at any point in the game and helps with just about any type of target you're needing.
-Crystal Shard: It ain't no Conjurer's Closet, but it blanks your opponent's removal and let's you essentially blink stuff during the late game when you have excess mana.
-Sea Gate Oracle
Soul of the Harvest
Standard: Mono Red #GetSwol
Elsewhere: Random Brews All Day, Erreday
~
Anyway, some of my thoughts on your list, in no particular order:
- Wood Elves. It's a big upgrade on Farhaven Elf, but I'd cut a mana rock and run both.
- This depends on the other decks in your playgroup, but I'd run a couple more cheap cantrip creatures (I think you could use a few more low-drops and blink targets, and those are both). You're already running the best one, Coiling Oracle, but Wall of Blossoms, Wall of Omens, Elvish Visionary, and Sea Gate Oracle are all worth considering (though I don't know if I'd run all of them). These gain value if your playgroup has a lot of aggro (don't underestimate the power of being the only player with a 2-mana potential chump blocker when the aggro player is deciding who to attack first). They lose some value if your playgroup is all hardcore combo vs. hardcore control (where you probably want more non-creature counters/removal that additional creatures would replace).
- Green Sun's Zenith. I run more green toolbox creatures than you do, but even so, I like this a lot. It's ramp/fixing, it's another out to Torpor Orb by fetching Qasali Pridemage (which is something I like to have a lot of, but YMMV), it finds a blink enabler if Roon has been tucked, and of course it finds various good stuff like Prophet or Prime Speaker.
- If you don't want to run GSZ, I think you should replace Pridemage with Sylvok Replica for your "Artifact hate recurred by Sun Titan and Reveillark" slot. On paper Replica is inferior, but Pridemage's numerous advantages are barely relevant in EDH, while Replica has one huge advantage: you can find it with Birthing Pod. Technically your list can also find Pridemage, but only off of Noble Hierarch. With Replica, Pod + 2-drop gets you a recur-able disenchant that still works under a Torpor Orb. (And again, I'd be running a couple more 2-drops) I have Pridemage in my deck, but I'd definitely make that swap if I ever cut Green Sun's Zenith.
- This is another metagame thing, but I like running at least a couple lifegain creatures. My playgroup has several aggressive or "bleeder" decks that often do large-but-not-infinite amounts of damage/life loss, though, so once again YMMV.
Chili:
1) I play against quite a bit of MLD and nonbasic LD, so I've found Darksteel Ingot to be quite important.
2) Fierce Empath is a card I've definitely considered, and I might test it next week to see how it would go. What would you suggest to cut to make room?
3) I considered Crystal Shard when I was first making the deck; however, I've found that by the time I'm wanting to protect/recast my creatures, I need to be on the offensive. Putting the card back in my hand slows me down for a turn, even if it will save my creature. None of my creatures, save maybe my finishers in Angel of Serenity and Luminate Primordial, are cards that I cannot live without.
4) Sea Gate Oracle is a card I've definitely been considering, especially since I've recently cut a 2 CMC creature in Snapcaster Mage. What would you cut for it?
5) Soul of the Harvest is another card I had in my original list but did not make the cut. Usually I'm finishing the game with Rite of Replication on one of my fatties, unblockable creatures with Thassa, God of the Sea, or board lock with Glen Elendra Archmage. If I find myself needing to finish the game more quickly, I might take another look at this guy.
Wombat:
1) Hrm, I thought Wood Elves was already in my list, thanks for pointing that out! I'll cut a rock for it, or maybe Courser of Kruphix. What would you cut?
2) I agree with you to an extent, and I'm considering adding Sea Gate Oracle, but I rarely find myself struggling against aggro in my meta. Thankfully I also have a lot of outs with 2 sweepers, Ixidron, and Spike Weaver.
3 and 4) I'm a forum n00b and I have Green Sun's Zenith in my list, but I'd put a "1X" in front of it, so it didn't show. Good call!
5) I had a few lifegain creatures in the original list. I had Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and Thragtusk but my meta is such that I'm generally not losing by combat damage. If the meta changes, I will be sure to take another look at these types of cards.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsMan, you guys are super lucky. Most of the players in my group feel so threatened just having me at the table that I'll often get targeted in the early game for virtually no reason. "We can't let you just sit there and slow roll the whole table," they explain. Friends like these, huh. I guess that's just as flattering as it is frustrating, but STILL. I even got hated on when I was playing Group Hug, haha.
Anyway, has anyone experimented with Strionic Resonator yet? And any thoughts on Leyline of Anticipation?
Also, Outcryqq, I notice you're running Asceticism, so I thought I'd point out that Privileged Position is almost a strict upgrade for the same CMC, unless you're in it for regeneration.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
It's my personal favorite ramp spell, but I don't deal with MLD hardly at all, so it may be crummy in that environment. But it rally enables some nut draws. For example, I just played a game where I played Skyshroud Claim at 4 mana and then used the fetched forests to cast a farseeek. Having access to 8 mana on turn 5, I played a Solumn Simulacrum and Birthing Pod then sacrificed the Simulacrum to pod out Prophet of Kruphix and cast a Consecrated Sphinx on the next player's upkeep. Total chaos.
Sea Gate Oracle has been so-so, but it definitely helps at most points in the game.
As for what I would cut, I'm not a huge fan of countermagic in my deck but, I understand why you would want to play them. My personal preference though would be to cut Rewind and Spell Crumple for the two cards.
Standard: Mono Red #GetSwol
Elsewhere: Random Brews All Day, Erreday
~
I think Nature's Lore is a bit of an upgrade. It's more limited, but still fetches 4 of 6 dual/shock lands and brings them into play untapped.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
I've gone a bit more combo-tastic since my first build, but even if you don't want to go that way (and I totally understand if you don't - it's highly group specific), there are a few things I'd recommend from my experience. Champion of Lambholt is really good, and probably merits a spot. The sad reality is that because we're playing ETB creatures, at any given point in the curve our creatures tend to be smaller than the big dumb creatures of our opponents. Champion turns our army of 2/2's-stapled-to-Vindicates into legit kill cons even on a stalled board. Sometimes you just need to get in there for a few extra points, after all. I'd probably take out Courser of Kruphix if I had to decide - I'm not sure Oracle of Mul Daya minus the ramp is worth it, but then again I haven't playtested it.
I know with a competitive list the idea is to keep the curve low, but Venser, Shaper Savant is enough better than Man-o'-war that it probably merits a straight 1-for-1 swap. Sometimes the difference between "creature" and "permanent" is game winning, and in a pinch it's a bad Remand that can also hit Supreme Verdict.
Speaking of Verdict, is there a reason you're running Wrath over it? I know Verdict is harder to cast in a vacuum, but you're not likely to be the guy who wants to blow up the world on turn 4 anyway. For this deck, Wrath effects are a tool of last resort when the board has gotten out of hand. We're pretty creature-heavy, after all. I find that most of the time I pull the trigger on a mass creature destruction spell, it's turn 7 or later when someone has just dumped their hand on the field and is threatening to 1-shot half the table. Turn 7, you should be able to cast whatever 4 mana spell you want, and uncounterability can really matter. More than regeneration, at least.
Arcane Denial has always seemed like a card that you only run because you already have Mana Drain and Counterspell in the deck, and you just need one more hard counter to fill out a permission suite. I don't think I'd ever run it before those others though. Mana Drains are expensive, but Counterspells are cheap - it seems like it'd be a pretty easy swap.
I know it's already on your list of "I'm testing this," but I can't recommend Gilded Drake enough. You're already running it's bigger cousin Perplexing Chimera, so you know how much fun stealing things and blinking can be. Pull the trigger. They're kinda pricey, but totally worth it.
All in all though, I really like how the list is shaping up! Hope you are having fun with it!
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head regarding going more combo - my group tends to move away from combo, so I find myself keeping out quite a few cards that would work in here if I went combo. I had Champion of Lambholt in my original list, but I took it out because my 3 CMC spot was quite full and I usually can get in on a stalled board with either Thassa, God of the Sea or Venser, the Sojourner.
Venser, Shaper Savant likely warrants playtesting, to be sure. I've been happy with Man-o'-War so far because it's low on the curve and can be an early threat mitigator, but he's probably one of the cards that's most on the chopping block at this point. Have you tested Venser out much? How has he performed for you?
You're right about Supreme Verdict. The only reason I currently have Wrath of God in there over it is because all my copies of Verdict are currently in my standard Esper Control deck.
I love Arcane Denial. You're right, I can't afford a Mana Drain, but I like Arcane Denial over Counterspell in EDH 100% of the time because it's another source of card draw and it's easier to cast early in the game.
Yeah, I'm in the market for a Gilded Drake, once I spot one at my LGS I will swap him in.
Thanks for the responses!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI tried out Strionic Resonator and I was underwhelmed. It just seemed too slow for me. I also had Leyline of Anticipation in my original list, but it got dropped because there are quite a few times it's just a dead card to me. Another reason it got the boot is because Prophet of Kruphix gives me that ability as well, and creatures are easier to search for in my list than are noncreature permanents.
Good call on Privileged Position! I think I had seen it once before but couldn't remember the name of it. I'll probably switch it in for Aceticism.
Nature's Lore is pretty good, but my issue has been that I've gotten stuck on green quite a bit, and by the time I'm fetching with spells, I'm usually needing to ramp out my nongreen dudes that have more restrictive mana costs, like Ixidron, Karmic Guide, Prime Speaker Zegana, Sun Titan, Deadeye Navigator, Angel of Serenity. I'll keep it in mind though!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCurrently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI would also highly suggest Venser, Shaper Savant. He's always good and he becomes too good when paired with Deadeye. You could cut Man-o'-war or maybe even a conterspell. Rewind, maybe?
I know you already play Prophet, but it seems like you always want an untap effect. So would also adding Seedborn Muse be fine or would it be too redundant?
Chord of Calling is also a great card. You can tutor up any one of your creatures at instant speed. You could cut a variety of cards for this card. Eldrami's Call or maybe Green Sun's Zenith. All three seem like very playable cards though
Mystic Snake is a great card. I would cut rewind for it. It can be tutored up at instant speed with Eldrami's Call, Chord of calling if you add it, Survival of the Fittest if you add it. It can also be paired with Deadeye Navigator. It can't effectively be blinked by Roon, but neither can Rewind.
I'm also recommending Gilded Drake and Survival of the Fittest, but your probably already know those cards are good.
Pretty much the same deal with Fiend Hunter. Exile their dude. Blink before Hunter's second trigger resolves, and then your opponent's threat is gone for good. And when Fiend Hunter reenters, you get to exile a new dude.
Standard: Mono Red #GetSwol
Elsewhere: Random Brews All Day, Erreday
~
The problem I see with Fiend Hunter (and his kid brother Banisher Priest) is that maximizing its utility requires an instant-speed blink engine. Anyone who has even an inkling as to what this deck is capable of won't let Roon stay on the field long enough to abuse Fiend Hunter with. Granted, this is meta-specific, but my play group uses lots of efficient spot removal to regulate player advantage.
A better argument can be made for Mangara of Corondor because it's more versatile, but it's still reliant on a blink enabler if you want to reuse it, and it has to stick around for a turn without something like Thousand-Year Elixir. I recently took out Mangara for Sea Gate Oracle, which gets some value immediately and is much less threatening on a blink stick than repeatable permanent removal. Personally, I'd sooner add Survival of the Fittest, Mirror Entity and Venser, Shaper Savant for a single combo-like win condition, because all of those cards are great in their own right, without requiring any support. (On that note, Karmic Guide + Reveillark + Mirror Entity + Venser/Acidic Slime/etc. is the only combo I run in my own deck, because it's just that much fun!)
So, unsurprisingly, I'll third the recommendation for Venser, Shaper Savant. He's a veritable badass.
B Chainer, Dementia Master B | UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG | WRG Marath, Will of the Wild WRG | UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR | UBG Tasigur, the Golden Fang UBG
Modern:
WBG Abzan Company WBG | UBR Grixis Delver and/or Twin UBR | U Merfolk U
WBG Anafenza, the Foremost WBG
WUR Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon WUBRG
URG Maelstrom Wanderer URG
UBG Damia, Sage of Stone UBG
WUG Roon of the Hidden Realm WUG
WUG Rafiq of the Many WUG
WUG Deveri, Empyrial Tactician WUG
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain WBG
UBR Nekusar, the Mind Razer UBR
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
UG Prime Speaker Zegana UG
UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
WB Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter WB
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
Entropic Melody: Sower of Temptation looks good, and I like the idea of Control Magic on an ETB body. My question is this - does the ability (and stolen creature) remain, even when I blink him? Or by "new creature" do you just mean that if something bigger and better comes along, that I can blink the sower to get it instead? Either way, he looks good.
Yeah I definitely will be putting in Venser, Shaper Savant as soon as I locate one to pick up.
I might try to pick up Seedborn Muse. I love the effect, but like you said, with all my tutors and recursion, I'm generally able to play Prophet of Kruphix whenever I want. If I find more people removing him from game, I will definitely consider adding the muse as another option.
I had Chord of Calling in my original list, and it was decent. However, I started moving away from tutors a bit, and I kept only what I felt were my most powerful tutors. The issue I had with chord was that I was not finding myself swimming in a ton of creatures that would help with the convoke cost (although from the looks of my list, I SHOULD be swimming in creatures). But you're right in that it's a very playable card, and I've been on the fence about putting it back in. I love Eladamri's Call because it's instant, and I've enjoyed Green Sun's Zenith due to it's ability for me to snatch a Dryad Arbor first turn for massive ramp or to begin a pod chain. I will give more thought while testing.
I also had Mystic Snake in my original list, but ended up cutting it. As my list currently stands, I can only use it effectively while in hand, with Eladamri's Call, and DEN. In the 4-slot for recursive countering, I prefer Glen Elendra Archmage because at the same 4 CMC spot, I have a creature that I still can use with any of blink enablers. Although it hits fewer cards, I'm generally not having problems removing the types of spells that she won't hit. She's also a blocker in a pinch with persist. I've really enjoyed Rewind as it's counter magic that still lets me keep up mana for other things I need, like Roon's ability.
BFFchili: Yeah I will definitely try out Mangara of Corondor as soon as I pick up a copy. I'm not too sold on Fiend Hunter, as I have other great ways of dealing with creatures. Mangara's ability to hit any permanent is very powerful and I look forward to testing with her. Glad to see you've liked her.
Spentbullets: I agree with you on Fiend Hunter. I do like Sea Gate Oracle and am considering adding him in, but so far I haven't had much trouble with card draw in my deck. Generally by the time I have a blink enabler online, I'm ready to blink for massive value. This is the reason I'm considering dropping cards that have smaller effects when blinked (Man-o'-War being the prime suspect).
And yes, I will be throwing Venser, Shaper Savant in ASAP. He looks amazing.
Thanks again, will update after this weekend, I expect a lot of play this weekend.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsStill looking for a Venser, Shaper Savant and an Oracle of Mul-Daya.
Thoughts on Oblivion Stone in a deck like this? Not sure where I would cut - maybe a sweeper?
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears