So new commanders! Seeing Atraxa, Praetors' voice makes me just want to cut red from my deck and just run her as my commander(I was running Progenitus). What do you guys think of this?
I disagree because you lose three win conditions by doing that. First, infinite mana through rings/basalt to dump into infinite sliver tokens (does not apply to progenitus tho). Second, extra turns with Ral Zarek. Third, Jokhaulups can seal the deal nicely.
However, I think its perfectly fine to switch if you can't afford the manabase or if your group disaproves MLD/infinites.
Really the only things I'll really be losing out on if I take out the red is ral zarek, nicol bolas, chandra the flamecaller, and about 4 other cards that were on the chopping block. I also feel that having her out early can let me snowball if i'm able to take extra turns. I also wonder if she is good for one of the 99 if your running a deck that allows creatures(or just let her be the only creature).
Extra turns yes. I have a hard time keeping planes on the board oftentimes so the ability does not help a lot being EOT. Having creatures also means that all the board hate cards gets worse (abyss, vapors, aether, wraths, humility). Tokens still work fine with anthem emblems.
Here is a little game play video. The Anafenza deck is a real good one, but I managed to drop the Abyss early to squash the plans. I completely F6ed my turn 6 and slowed down the plan by a whole turn. Tamiyo ults, I play solitaire, table scoops. super fun
So new commanders! Seeing Atraxa, Praetors' voice makes me just want to cut red from my deck and just run her as my commander(I was running Progenitus). What do you guys think of this?
It really depends on what your list looks like, but overall I would say yes. It costs 4 mana, drops red (which would increase fixing, though you lose a couple things), and her abilities are just really good for super friends. She chump blocks with death touch, will be kept up because of vigilance, gains you life, and has flying? She's the greatest planeswalker blocker of all time lol. Her second ability is obviously nuts for this deck.
I won't be switching because I just want to maintain that "5-color superfriends" deck theme, and Sliver Queen is awesome for that. Otherwise, I probably would. Granted I lose a little bit, but I would say it is made up in what you gain. What red cards are you running? I literally only run Nicol Bolas, Chandra, Daretti, Ral and Dack.
Sublime exaltation looks great for 4-player pods. I already run Day of Judgement, so this might replace it due to the easier casting cost.
Atraxa is super cool all around, but I think I'd rather keep red for Bolas and obliterate, as well as better commander options like Sliver Hivelord and Queen. The second ability won't even matter a lot of the time, and it paints an even bigger target on your walkers for no real benefit.
I totally agree and it hurts to include creatures. I already made an exception for Academy Rector because he can win me the game and I think this card can also win us the game if unanswered.
I totally agree and it hurts to include creatures. I already made an exception for Academy Rector because he can win me the game and I think this card can also win us the game if unanswered.
See that's another thing. I've always wanted to keep out cards that basically only "win the game" for a more fun game play. That's why I avoid all combos at cost. Granted, my meta is a lot less competitive, no one runs mass land destruction, so we all play pretty "fair".
I think for now I'll leave it out, until something drastic changes. I think overall though I suggest the card.
I started with the main list and then I've been doing a couple of other things:
I don't have the new conspiracy walkers since WotC is currently hosing MODO.
Timetwister and Time Spiral are awesome, but the entry cost is a lot easier online.
I'm using Seasons Past for recursion, because it just reloads you so much.
Toxic Deluge to deal with those pesky board states (and Gaddock Teeg)
I just realized I don't have Chromatic Lantern in there anymore. Whoops, that needs to go back in.
I totally agree and it hurts to include creatures. I already made an exception for Academy Rector because he can win me the game and I think this card can also win us the game if unanswered.
See that's another thing. I've always wanted to keep out cards that basically only "win the game" for a more fun game play. That's why I avoid all combos at cost. Granted, my meta is a lot less competitive, no one runs mass land destruction, so we all play pretty "fair".
I think for now I'll leave it out, until something drastic changes. I think overall though I suggest the card.
That's perfectly fine. My combo version is a bit too strong for what some would call 75% decks. Its not strong enough for tier 1.5/1 metas however which puts it in an awkward spot. My list is fairly close to FiddlerTheDrum's list actually except I run those combos:
- if I have Sliver Queen in play I can go infinite Sliver tokens (this one is kinda lame because it does not win with the deck's theme, I only use it against tier 1 decks)
- if I have Sensei's Divining Top I can draw my library until I hit Omniscience then play my whole deck and win hopefully with Doubling Season and some ults (I usually won't resolve this in casual metas)
How do you guys win? Is there another win condition am I missing?
I play a pretty standard control style, just no counterspells. Keep the board at bay via wraths, removal and permanents that lock down creatures (Humility, Lethal Vapors, etc.) while I generate card advantage. Eventually one of a few things will happen: I have so many planeswalkers that eventually one reaches an ultimate, and puts me past most other opponents. Time Warp variants help with this, too. Another scenario is Doubling Season plus planeswalker that ults. Another scenario is ramping into a planeswalker like Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker that just starts to take over the board. Sometimes I just stick it out until its me versus another player, who usually has exhausted all of their resources. At that point a lot of stuff can happen, even swinging in with Sliver Queen x 3.
WHITE: Sublime Exhalation - The "undaunted" mechanic definitely makes cards varying in how good they are. Typically I play four player pods, so that just makes this an easier to cast Day of Judgement, overall pretty meh. Plus I will occasionally play three player pods, so that makes this just outright worse than most other wraths. Now, if you like to play really large games, five, six, seven players, this gets really good. Wrathing for 1? That's awesome. Ultimately it just depends on how often you play large games, and if you're willing to switch out cards when they are clearly bad compared to others in certain scenarios.
BLUE: Deepglow Skate - Ah, this card. It's seriously so perfect for our decks, but at the same time, it isn't. A lot of the time it can be just a dead card, in many scenarios. If you play a similar deck as me, you run cards like Humility and Torpor Orb (which are very important in the decks strategy) this card will just blank some of the time. Sometimes, you'll just be sitting on one planeswalker and casting this is pretty meh. In other situations, this will pretty much win you the game. One of the things I almost don’t like about this is that it has a bit of an “instant win” quality to it. So for my playgroup and I, we like to play longer games that are competitive but also casual enough so people aren’t playing combos like infinite mana combos or Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Ophidian Eye so that the game sort of ends expectedly and abruptly, just ruins the fun of the game for us. Plus, for me, I’m maintaining a bit of a planeswalker only theme, which excludes all creatures. Overall, I suggest this card fully, and don’t at the same time. It’s really up to you. I think I still may test it, now or later. I just wish this wasn’t a creature, ahhhhhhhh. Could you imagine if there was an Oath like this, for say four mana, when it ETB you double all the counters.
BLACK: (...)
RED: (...)
GREEN: Seeds of Renewal – Another “undaunted” card, it really just depends how many people you play with. I’m almost always playing with three opponents, so this is typically going to be a four mana Restock which isn’t bad. Plus, I’ve had a lot of success with Regrowth effects, but for now I think the two I run (Regrowth and Treasured Find) are be enough. If I do decide to add another, I’ll likely be looking to this. I do have a bit of a theme of three cards that have similar effects in this deck.
MULTICOLORED: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice – The perfect non-red general for this deck. Provides awesome block abilities and generates loyalty every turn, plus it’s non-red (our least used color). For anyone interested in switching over, I may end up making a list for this, because it is just that good and just that fitting for the deck. For now, I’ll shy away from this, because I’ve sort of established my deck as the five color planeswalker deck, with Sliver Queen at the helm. Plus, there are still a few red cards I really like, such as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (what’s a planeswalker deck without Nicol Bolas, PLANESWALKER?!).
COLORLESS: Prismatic Geoscope – A card that I’m still considering, but leaning towards keeping it out. I definitely could see replacing something like Skyshroud’s Claim with this. I will say this, if you run all ten original duals and all ten original shocks, consider it. If you run all those lands and if you run Tezzeret the Seeker, run this.
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Overall I thought this set was awesome, just not for this deck. I love four color generals and I love the partner mechanic.
Fair analysis. I think Atraxa is a solid starting point for people who wants to play the archetype without buying all the manabase at once. Maybe even start bant and move to WUBG afterwards.
Prismatic Geoscope is fine but costs a bit too much for my taste. I'd play it if I did not run all the duals but I think the deck needs acceleration more than fixing.
Fair analysis. I think Atraxa is a solid starting point for people who wants to play the archetype without buying all the manabase at once. Maybe even start bant and move to WUBG afterwards.
Prismatic Geoscope is fine but costs a bit too much for my taste. I'd play it if I did not run all the duals but I think the deck needs acceleration more than fixing.
Wouldnt you say that Prismatic Geoscope does both? 5 mana for a rock that produces 5 mana is a pretty good ramp spell. Better than Gilded Lotus.
Five mana is slow enough that I'd rather run the monoliths. My goal is to play a 4-5 drop PW on T3 as often as possible to get more than one activation before I drop sliver queen for defense.
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However, I think its perfectly fine to switch if you can't afford the manabase or if your group disaproves MLD/infinites.
It really depends on what your list looks like, but overall I would say yes. It costs 4 mana, drops red (which would increase fixing, though you lose a couple things), and her abilities are just really good for super friends. She chump blocks with death touch, will be kept up because of vigilance, gains you life, and has flying? She's the greatest planeswalker blocker of all time lol. Her second ability is obviously nuts for this deck.
I won't be switching because I just want to maintain that "5-color superfriends" deck theme, and Sliver Queen is awesome for that. Otherwise, I probably would. Granted I lose a little bit, but I would say it is made up in what you gain. What red cards are you running? I literally only run Nicol Bolas, Chandra, Daretti, Ral and Dack.
Atraxa is super cool all around, but I think I'd rather keep red for Bolas and obliterate, as well as better commander options like Sliver Hivelord and Queen. The second ability won't even matter a lot of the time, and it paints an even bigger target on your walkers for no real benefit.
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
EDIT: But, it does reduce the theme of the deck and the whole interaction with Humility and Torpor Orb sucks.
I think for now I'll leave it out, until something drastic changes. I think overall though I suggest the card.
1 Sliver Queen,
Planeswalker (21)
1 Jace Beleren
1 Dack Fayden
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Ral Zarek
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Liliana Vess
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Elspeth, Sun'ss Champion
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Sorin Markov
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Karn Liberated
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (6)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Beast Within
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Utter End
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Sorcery (18)
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Timetwister
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Vindicate
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Time Spiral
1 Austere Command
1 Seasons Past
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Exploration
1 Sylvan Library
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Oath of Jace
1 Oath of Liliana
1 Humility
1 Moat
1 The Abyss
1 Lethal Vapors
1 Doubling Season
Artifacts (8)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Torpor Orb
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Words
1 Rings of Brighthearth
Lands (36)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Kher Keep
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Strip Mine
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
I started with the main list and then I've been doing a couple of other things:
I don't have the new conspiracy walkers since WotC is currently hosing MODO.
Timetwister and Time Spiral are awesome, but the entry cost is a lot easier online.
I'm using Seasons Past for recursion, because it just reloads you so much.
Toxic Deluge to deal with those pesky board states (and Gaddock Teeg)
I just realized I don't have Chromatic Lantern in there anymore. Whoops, that needs to go back in.
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
That's perfectly fine. My combo version is a bit too strong for what some would call 75% decks. Its not strong enough for tier 1.5/1 metas however which puts it in an awkward spot. My list is fairly close to FiddlerTheDrum's list actually except I run those combos:
Rings of Brigthhearth + Basalt Monolith = Infinite mana
From there:
- if I have Sliver Queen in play I can go infinite Sliver tokens (this one is kinda lame because it does not win with the deck's theme, I only use it against tier 1 decks)
- if I have Sensei's Divining Top I can draw my library until I hit Omniscience then play my whole deck and win hopefully with Doubling Season and some ults (I usually won't resolve this in casual metas)
Alternatively I try to win by
- resolving Omniscience from maybe Academy Rector or something else and abuse it
- Pop Tamiyo, the Moon Sage's emblem and nuke the board with Vindicate if I have Omniscience
- try to setup a Capsize + Ral Zarek + Doubling Season infinite turn loop
Now with the new counter doubling card you can replace doubling season in most of those win conditions and they still work.
How do you guys win? Is there another win condition am I missing?
WHITE:
Sublime Exhalation - The "undaunted" mechanic definitely makes cards varying in how good they are. Typically I play four player pods, so that just makes this an easier to cast Day of Judgement, overall pretty meh. Plus I will occasionally play three player pods, so that makes this just outright worse than most other wraths. Now, if you like to play really large games, five, six, seven players, this gets really good. Wrathing for 1? That's awesome. Ultimately it just depends on how often you play large games, and if you're willing to switch out cards when they are clearly bad compared to others in certain scenarios.
BLUE:
Deepglow Skate - Ah, this card. It's seriously so perfect for our decks, but at the same time, it isn't. A lot of the time it can be just a dead card, in many scenarios. If you play a similar deck as me, you run cards like Humility and Torpor Orb (which are very important in the decks strategy) this card will just blank some of the time. Sometimes, you'll just be sitting on one planeswalker and casting this is pretty meh. In other situations, this will pretty much win you the game. One of the things I almost don’t like about this is that it has a bit of an “instant win” quality to it. So for my playgroup and I, we like to play longer games that are competitive but also casual enough so people aren’t playing combos like infinite mana combos or Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Ophidian Eye so that the game sort of ends expectedly and abruptly, just ruins the fun of the game for us. Plus, for me, I’m maintaining a bit of a planeswalker only theme, which excludes all creatures. Overall, I suggest this card fully, and don’t at the same time. It’s really up to you. I think I still may test it, now or later. I just wish this wasn’t a creature, ahhhhhhhh. Could you imagine if there was an Oath like this, for say four mana, when it ETB you double all the counters.
BLACK:
(...)
RED:
(...)
GREEN:
Seeds of Renewal – Another “undaunted” card, it really just depends how many people you play with. I’m almost always playing with three opponents, so this is typically going to be a four mana Restock which isn’t bad. Plus, I’ve had a lot of success with Regrowth effects, but for now I think the two I run (Regrowth and Treasured Find) are be enough. If I do decide to add another, I’ll likely be looking to this. I do have a bit of a theme of three cards that have similar effects in this deck.
MULTICOLORED:
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice – The perfect non-red general for this deck. Provides awesome block abilities and generates loyalty every turn, plus it’s non-red (our least used color). For anyone interested in switching over, I may end up making a list for this, because it is just that good and just that fitting for the deck. For now, I’ll shy away from this, because I’ve sort of established my deck as the five color planeswalker deck, with Sliver Queen at the helm. Plus, there are still a few red cards I really like, such as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (what’s a planeswalker deck without Nicol Bolas, PLANESWALKER?!).
COLORLESS:
Prismatic Geoscope – A card that I’m still considering, but leaning towards keeping it out. I definitely could see replacing something like Skyshroud’s Claim with this. I will say this, if you run all ten original duals and all ten original shocks, consider it. If you run all those lands and if you run Tezzeret the Seeker, run this.
NO UPDATES
Overall I thought this set was awesome, just not for this deck. I love four color generals and I love the partner mechanic.
Prismatic Geoscope is fine but costs a bit too much for my taste. I'd play it if I did not run all the duals but I think the deck needs acceleration more than fixing.