[quote from="Temporal_Archmage »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/536178-super-friends-control-traveling-the-multiverse?comment=26"]Yeah, I think Sarkhan is quite slow and doesn't really advance our board position all too well. But he will do a fine job in standard! I tested Gideon for a bit, who seems like a superior Sarkhan, and he made the cut. He just didn't do enough of what we needed. Anyways, yeah every C14 precon will have a "planeswalker general". If there power levels are similar to Teferi's, I imagine they will most likely all find a spot. Teferi just seems bonkers. On Liliana, I'm skeptical. Like you said she is clearly better in the solo match-up, but without the ability to use her plus to our advantage, she doesn't really do much. Sure she can serve as psuedo-removal on board, but I think I would rather just have a wrath.
Oh, sweet! I wonder if the planeswalker commanders will be too color spesific or if they will all be included with our Superfriends. It would be hard to find room for five walkers, but to be realistic I'm guessing 2-3 will be playable at most. They are probably printing more of the commander specific cards that will be worth including as well. If they print better wraths to replace my current wraths then thats fine by me.
What do you think about the new card End Hostilities? And Utter End? They might be good removal. I'm always annoyed that Sword of Light and Shadow and Lightning Greaves stay on board after a wrath, it would be nice to destroy them too.
I agree that Liliana is not the best of the bunch, but I will continue using her based on her performance so far. She might have to give up her spot to Teferi though.
[quote from="Temporal_Archmage »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/536178-super-friends-control-traveling-the-multiverse?comment=26"]Yeah, I think Sarkhan is quite slow and doesn't really advance our board position all too well. But he will do a fine job in standard! I tested Gideon for a bit, who seems like a superior Sarkhan, and he made the cut. He just didn't do enough of what we needed. Anyways, yeah every C14 precon will have a "planeswalker general". If there power levels are similar to Teferi's, I imagine they will most likely all find a spot. Teferi just seems bonkers. On Liliana, I'm skeptical. Like you said she is clearly better in the solo match-up, but without the ability to use her plus to our advantage, she doesn't really do much. Sure she can serve as psuedo-removal on board, but I think I would rather just have a wrath.
Oh, sweet! I wonder if the planeswalker commanders will be too color spesific or if they will all be included with our Superfriends. It would be hard to find room for five walkers, but to be realistic I'm guessing 2-3 will be playable at most. They are probably printing more of the commander specific cards that will be worth including as well. If they print better wraths to replace my current wraths then thats fine by me.
What do you think about the new card End Hostilities? And Utter End? They might be good removal. I'm always annoyed that Sword of Light and Shadow and Lightning Greaves stay on board after a wrath, it would be nice to destroy them too.
I agree that Liliana is not the best of the bunch, but I will continue using her based on her performance so far. She might have to give up her spot to Teferi though.
I think that they will probably do pretty will, since they are made for the format. I'm really excited. I would love to an artifact, or enchantment, that has Teferi's ultimate.
Anyway, Utter End and End Hostilities both have potential. I, for one, am going to be making room for Utter End. If I were in a heavy voltron meta, or even an creature goodstuffs meta, I would consider End Hostilities. But for right now, I think it is too narrow for me compared to something like Terminus or Final Judgment. Another card in Khans I am considering, but I'm unsure due to space, is Crackling Doom. Three-for-ones seem good. But that's something else I probably don't have room for. Other than that, Khans hasn't had a lot I will be putting in. I'll do a set update when it releases, though! Hopefully I can start getting some other members on the thread for feedback and interest.
Artifacts and enchantments that help walkers would be nice for sure. The Chain Veilseems like it was made for Superfriends and its nice that the walkers get some love. Anyways Utter Endseems like an alternative Vindicate. Downside being 4cmc and it doesn't hit lands, and upside being it exiles and is an instant. I think I would make room for it as well. It was nice for me to find a thread with a deck similar to mine that I liked without page upon page with comments. But it would be nice to get some more people giving ideas. My list is updated by the way. I took out Maelstrom Nexusand Damnation and added Strip Mine,Ensnaring Bridgeand Moat. Still on the fence about The Abyss but I think it will be in the deck:
Deck: EDH Superfriends.dec
Counts : 100 main
Creatures:2
1 Academy Rector
1 Sliver Queen
Spells:61
1 Mana Crypt
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Farseek
1 Regrowth
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sylvan Library
1 Torpor Orb
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Chaos Warp
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dack Fayden
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Genesis Wave
1 Jace Beleren
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Vindicate
1 Wargate
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Moat
1 Ral Zarek
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Supreme Verdict
1 The Abyss
1 The Chain Veil
1 Wrath of God
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Doubling Season
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Liliana Vess
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Privileged Position
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Austere Command
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Sorin Markov
1 Terminus
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Karn Liberated
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Lands:37
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Strip Mine
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
I've considered Island of Wak-Wak, but I don't want to bring the non-mana producing lands up even more. Plus it is sorta situational, and can be dead more often than not. Are you familiar with using deck tags? It helps formatting the deck a lot. Just put [deck ] (but remove the space between k and ])right before the beginning of the list and [/deck] at the end.
I've considered Island of Wak-Wak, but I don't want to bring the non-mana producing lands up even more. Plus it is sorta situational, and can be dead more often than not. Are you familiar with using deck tags? It helps formatting the deck a lot. Just put [deck ] (but remove the space between k and ])right before the beginning of the list and [/deck] at the end.
Ok, thanks. I only have 12 post so I have no experience with that. But, I'll use it next time. Just fond this commander forum and wanted to chip in and get some response myself on card choises etc. Found your deck which was most similar to mine Does the time walk effects help out a lot?
Yep, no problem! I'm no mod or anything, but feel free to ask me questions. I'll try my best to help. Anyway, yes the Time Walk effects help a lot. I think casting a Time Walk effect in just about any deck is gonna advance you quite a bit, and in a super friends deck it is even better. I would suggest them, absolutely. If you don't wanna fork up the money for the Portal ones, I would suggest maybe using cards like Walk the Aeons
Yep, no problem! I'm no mod or anything, but feel free to ask me questions. I'll try my best to help. Anyway, yes the Time Walk effects help a lot. I think casting a Time Walk effect in just about any deck is gonna advance you quite a bit, and in a super friends deck it is even better. I would suggest them, absolutely. If you don't wanna fork up the money for the Portal ones, I would suggest maybe using cards like Walk the Aeons
I can imagine getting to activate every walker again would be better than any proliferate effect. I had Venser, Tezz, Chain Veil, Sol Ring and Mana Crypt out. I was blinking the Veil and untapping the Ring and Crypt to activate my walkers three times a turn. Was pretty sweet I need to look into the time walk effects and maybe playtest with Warp (the only one I own)
End Hostilities - Seems fine if you're meta is very aggressive and features a lot of voltron style decks. Other than that, this five mana wrath gets outclassed fairly quickly when matched up against many others.
BLUE:
Clever Impersonator - I really like this card, I think I would enjoy playing it in about any blue deck. For us, it's utility is actually not as relevant since copying one of our planeswalkers will essentially just either boost their loyalty or give us an additional activation. Although we shouldn't forget it can copy other things such as Doubling Season, or an opponent's Omniscience.
Dig Through Time - Just a nice draw spell that will let you dig seven deep and get two cards out of it. This will most likely always cost UU. Although, during late game, you want something to sink your mana into, such as Sphinx's Revelation, and this is not what that does.
Quiet Contemplation - This seems like a really nice way to lock down threats to keep your planeswalkers trucking. Without any creatures in the deck, besides Sliver Queen, every time we cast a spell we can trigger this. Meaning we can essentially lock down a non-hexproof creature indefinitely if we wanted to.
BLACK:
Empty the Pits - This is a lot similar to Army of the Damned, but a lot more black mana intensive and most likely will be a lot cheaper. If you're looking for a non-planeswalker win condition for late game, this could be something to consider.
Murderous Cut - It's almost like a black Swords to Plowshares, but not. Anyways, I still like this card. I couldn't see running it in here, unless you are on a budget and in need of removal.
RED:
Goblinslide - Something I'm expecting most people did not expect to see in this review. Well, with no creatures besides our general, this will be triggered at least one or two times a turn, and I think that is a fine way to generate some chump blockers or Skullclamp fodder. Although we have better options, if you want to push the token theme a bit more, I would suggest considering this.
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - Whenever I consider playing this card, I just think about how I always end up cutting Gideon Jura, which I would say is most likely superior. While Sarkhan can ultimate, providing us some needed card advantage during stages of the late game, he still is outclassed by many other planeswalkers. Maybe I'll look into testing him down the road, but currently he doesn't seem to fit.
GREEN:
(...)
MULTICOLORED:
Abzan Charm - Probably my favorite charm out of all the charms that exist. It serves as removal, quite nice removal too, and can draw cards. I think the only one that competes is Bant Charm, which I always enjoyed casting.
Crackling Doom - This may be something to consider, but we cannot forget how color intensive it is. This can 3-for-1, while potentially even picking off opposing planeswalkers, all at instant speed. Seems like Kaalia players got a new toy with this one.
Narset, Enlightened Master - Say we play this. This would be the only creature card in our deck, effectively draw four and cast all the cards we drew for free every time she attacked. "Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Merciless Eviction, Doubling Season, Underground Sea". Uh, win the game? She may be something to consider, although I'm not sure if I want to make the move of leaving the creaturelessness of the deck behind.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor - I think what this Sorin really does is provide some needed life gain this deck doesn't really have. While his plus can be essentially useless a lot of the time, he is able to minus and provide us a flying body, to not only deal with flyers, but also to later have to utilize his plus.
Utter End - Practically a instant speed Vindicate for four mana. The "catch-all" removal spells are my favorite for this list, as the inclusion of cards such as Oblation and Chaos Warp reveal. This is no exception, as I think it does a better job than both of those, at least in my meta, where tucking the general is not a relevant.
Villainous Wealth - This is comparable to things such as Debt to the Deathless. Casting this for X=10 or more can most likely win you the game, but it is also reeaaally dead during early game. It may warrant some testing, but I'm unsure for now.
LANDS:
FETCHLANDS YAY! Well, I can say for most players who were looking to play this deck, or any three to five color deck, this is a relief. It at least makes obtaining these cards a little more reasonable.
DECK CHANGES:
Awakening Zone -> Ensnaring Bridge - I originally began testing Awakening Zone after a game where I felt like I needed some more ramp, and thought it provided a nice utility of creating tokens for various uses and also ramping. I think it does that pretty well, but one of the things I have continuously been noticing is that the deck has no way to deal with flying creatures, besides removal. Other than that, I think Ensnaring Bridge is awesome because it helps lock down attack triggers, unlike Maze of Ith or chump blocking.
Chaos Warp -> Utter End - I think for the most part Chaos Warp does its job quite well, and I have no problem with it. I just like Utter End more because it doesn't have that chance for turning one problem into a bigger problem, plus whatever you target most likely won't be coming back.
Ajani Vengeant -> Sorin, Solemn Visitor - As stated above, I think the new Sorin provides this deck some needed life gain. In terms of power level, and contribution to the deck, I think both of these cards are quite well. Right now I am just testing the switch because occasionally I feel like Ajani Vengeant doesn't contribute much to the game, besides maybe keeping something tapped down for a little bit.
So I have been debating on making some changes to increase the efficiency of the deck, probably push the superfriends theme a little more, and just make room for cards that probably fit the archetype better.
Here is what I'm considering, but haven't fully decided yet:
After thinking about the changes listed above, I think I'm going to go about to make these changes:
REMOVING FROM THE DECK:
- Exsanguinate - This and Debt to the Deathless both provided similar utility, but it always seemed too late. Essentially I enjoyed using these two cards for either win-conditions, or ways to put me so far ahead that I practically win. In addition to that, they provided some early life-gain, but like I said it always came too late, and both of these were always dead early game.
- Mirari's Wake - This is one of the cards I'm removing which I am skeptical of taking out. When I look at this, I see an anthem effect which is quite nice with our token theme, but also as a way to essentially win the game. Unfortunately, with the removal of both of the X draineffects, this card loses a lot of its luster and ability to win us the game. Also, I noticed dropping this can quickly put a bulls-eye on our head.
- Cyclonic Rift - A really great card that I just am unsure about at the moment. Yes overloading this can quickly win you the game, but... it costs a lot, its other mode is at best a "meh", and its another card that generates a target on your head. Nevertheless I really like this card, I just do not think it fits this deck, though it fits many others.
ADDING TO THE DECK:
+ Awakening Zone - I think this card probably deserves more testing. Although it is a three drop, its uses are two fold, at least. Awakening Zone provides chump blockers for our walkers, and ourselves, in addition to ramping. Oh, and Skullclamp fodder to boot.
+ Ajani Vengeant - After removing this for Sorin 3.0, and with the removal of a few things, I quickly realized how good this Ajani can be for this deck.
+ Chaos Warp - Another card that is returning after the Khans of Tarkir update. Again, I basically realized that the "catch-all" removal spells are important to this list, this one is no exception.
+ Nevinyrral's Disk - I'm honestly not too sure what this card is was not doing in this deck. What is funny about this is while talking to my brother about updating my deck, I had sad, "Man, I wish there was a Planar Cleansing that did not hit planeswalkers." He quickly replied, "Akroma's Vengeance?" Duh. I originally had intentions on adding Akroma's Vengeance, but then I remember the disk. I think this is still up for debate, but since it can be recurred by Academy Ruins and tutored for by Tezzeret, the Seeker. I would like to hear feedback, though.
I'll probably be testing this as the current build up until Commander 2014 comes out, and I'm positive that there will be changes.
OTHER NEWS:
Earlier this week I applied for primer status. The review of the thread is supposed to take a couple weeks, and although there hasn't been many members contributing to the thread, yet, I think it would be exciting to bring the superfriends archetype together into one thread. For anyone who has suggestions on how to improve the thread to generate more views and to create a better thread, please let me know.
I know I'm already commenting on this thread, but I have made some significant changes to my list lately that I think is worth mentioning. Maybe that will help draw attention to this thread.
I have added Omniscience to the deck and my main gameplan is now to get it out. With the best tutors in the game its fairly easy to do. Of course there are many moves to get it out. First you need Academy Rector and then you need it to die. Afterwards you need to actually have some spells to cast in your hand. This is why I have Conflux now and Timetwister (considering Wheel of Fortune too). I have also added Necropotence to draw into the cards I need. With Conflux I usually get: Doubling Season, Bolas, Ral Zarek, Venser, Timetwister. Doubling Season enables Ral to take a few turns while Bolas goes boom and Venser resets him. Cast Timetwister to refill and shuffle back your graveyard.
Counterspells have been added because my deck has drawn hate lately (before I included Omniscience) and people have played spells that leave me in bad shape. I'm even looking to add more but its hard to find good ones.
You were right about Ajani Steadfast. He does to little.
I know I'm already commenting on this thread, but I have made some significant changes to my list lately that I think is worth mentioning. Maybe that will help draw attention to this thread ...
Yeah, feel free to post on here whenever you update your deck or just to discuss different things, such as match-ups you're having or whatever.
On the Omniscience plan, I actually played something similar to this when I originally started playing this deck, but I found the early game draw of an Omniscience was a very dead card, and when I used Academy Rector to tutor for it my games became a little repetitive: "Cast Academy Rector, find a removal spell for Academy Rector, go get Omniscience, hopefully win before becoming archenemy."
I think the addition of counterspells, depending on your meta. Like you said, if you're drawing a lot of hate you may want to include some counterspells.
What do you guys think of Arboria? You can still pump tokens and be perma fogged.
H'm, that is an interesting card that I never knew existed. I think for this deck, I want my pillow-fort cards to apply to the planeswalkers in addition to myself. Although, if you meet a lot of aggro in your games, this may be something to consider including, in addition to some token producing mana-sinks, such as Sacred Mesa or Luminarch Ascension, etc. Also, something that serves a similar purpose as this card if you are meeting a lot of aggro is Peacekeeper. While I don't currently run this card, when I used to run a Bant super friends deck I did, and this guy was a champ. He can draw you hate, but generally you just buys you and your planeswalkers a few turns to get ahead.
No updates from Khans except Utter End. If I can get a hold of Sorin I'll give him a try.
Sorin has done me really well, thus far. I have only played a couple games with him, but he incrementally gains some life and the token does really help. I have yet to ultimate him, but I would imagine it would be amazing.
No updates from Khans except Utter End. If I can get a hold of Sorin I'll give him a try.
Sorin has done me really well, thus far. I have only played a couple games with him, but he incrementally gains some life and the token does really help. I have yet to ultimate him, but I would imagine it would be amazing.
I will have to try him out. I initially though he was better than Lord of Inistrad. Then of course you need not compare the two. I'm always looking to improve my deck since its my favorite. But sometimes I think I might change it "just" to change it. On the other hand I find some cards I have considered auto-includes turned out to be sub par. Do you have experiences with this?
I will have to try him out. I initially though he was better than Lord of Inistrad. Then of course you need not compare the two. I'm always looking to improve my deck since its my favorite. But sometimes I think I might change it "just" to change it. On the other hand I find some cards I have considered auto-includes turned out to be sub par. Do you have experiences with this?
As for new cards coming out, that seem like they may be a good fit, I always like to at least test them to see. Sometimes the value of the card is not completely apparent on paper, and requires some testing to see how well it does. But I mean, same for other times you are changing it to just change it. Testing is necessary for a deck to develop. I know when I first started playing this deck that there were cards I considered staples: Omniscience, Academy Rector, and even more cards like Exsanguinate and Cyclonic Rift. Although, what I found is that when you play the deck more and more you figure out cards that just provide more value in more situations, or just a card can just be boring. So yes, there I definitely have this experience. I think what's best about five color decks is that you get to play whatever you want, and test whatever, so you are always changing your deck, for whatever reason.
Had a couple games today against a Hazezon Tamar and a Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck. One of the key things I picked up from the match was a realization that I think I'm coming to as I'm dropping some of my more explosive plays, such as Mirari's Wake: Dropping Mana Crypt. I love the card, but I think it more often hurts me than helps me. Being bolted, even half of the time, is probably too dangerous. In addition, during the game I was taking massive beats from the Scion deck. This had nothing to do with the lack of dudes on the board, or even trample, I just didn't have any flying chumpers. Here is what I'm contemplating to change:
I don't know, though. It does seem a pretty good way to deal with flying attackers, but it theoretically only reduces the damage I take per turn by .5. I would like to hear some feedback on this idea, or suggestions.
Had a couple games today against a Hazezon Tamar and a Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck. One of the key things I picked up from the match was a realization that I think I'm coming to as I'm dropping some of my more explosive plays, such as Mirari's Wake: Dropping Mana Crypt. I love the card, but I think it more often hurts me than helps me. Being bolted, even half of the time, is probably too dangerous. In addition, during the game I was taking massive beats from the Scion deck. This had nothing to do with the lack of dudes on the board, or even trample, I just didn't have any flying chumpers. Here is what I'm contemplating to change:
I don't know, though. It does seem a pretty good way to deal with flying attackers, but it theoretically only reduces the damage I take per turn by .5. I would like to hear some feedback on this idea, or suggestions.
In my experience the damage this deck delivers in massive...to the pilot. I once dominated a game where the opponent did not damage me, and I spent 20 lifepoints on Mana Crypt,Phyrexian Arena,Sylvan Library, shocklands and fetches... I think using your life as a resorce is great because it usually nets you a great advantage. But its also dangerous. If I'm gunning for the Omniscienceplay then it doesn't matter because once its out I'm probably winning. But in a multiplayer scene its scary. I think Bitterblossomseems like a very fitting card. With the new Sorins first ability they can give you some return for your lifeloss too. Flying blockers are great protection for walkers. But Mana Cryptis one of the best manarocks in EDH and ramps you ahead. I'm definetly pro Bitterblossombut not sure about cutting the Crypt. I have contemplated the need for Mirari's Wakemyself lately. It takes a turn to play it where I would want to do something else. Then again the pump for the tokens is powerful. I comes down to your meta I think.
Yeah, it's a tough decision. The thing about Mana Crypt is not only that it can generate a lot of damage over time, it is also something that attracts a lot of hate. Whenever I open up with a Mana Crypt, say within the first five turns, I generally establish a board position that ends up making me archenemy. In addition, I think this deck really wants to play the long and control game, setting up a board position full of walkers, and hopefully ultimating one for the win. Now what I am going to replace it with is definitely up for grabs. Like I said I'm pretty interested in testing Bitterblossom as a way to generate some flying chump blockers and some Skullclamp fodder.
I like idea of the draw spells, and it's probably something I should considered. Unfortunately Timetwistet is quite a bit out of my range, in terms of price. But it does seem like a nice way to refill my hand and also serve as graveyard control.
I think another card that I have been contemplating its power level is Assemble the Legion. Although it does provide some nice interactions with Doubling Season, but it also is just a five drop that doesn't impact the board upon entering the battlefield. I think one of the things I have been noticing is my lack of way to really build card advantage, and from my past experience with other decks, something I remembered that used to really help me out was Rhystic Study.
I think another card that I have been contemplating its power level is Assemble the Legion. Although it does provide some nice interactions with Doubling Season, but it also is just a five drop that doesn't impact the board upon entering the battlefield. I think one of the things I have been noticing is my lack of way to really build card advantage, and from my past experience with other decks, something I remembered that used to really help me out was Rhystic Study.
Rhystic Study is great. I have it in my deck now after I had taken it out for a while. I thought it wasn't helping out, but turns out it was a cheap & silent contributor. The games where I get either Phyrexian Arena, Sylvan Library, Rhystic Study, Jace Beleren or other cards like that out on turn three I get the headstart I need. I tend to think Rhystic is the weakest among these as I don't feel I draw to many cards off it. But my opponents tell me it slows down their game because they pay for Rhystic so I don't get the draw. So advantage! I recommend this card.
You wrote to both take out and add Assemble the Legion which card did you add? Let me know how the deck does without Mana Crypt
I'd like to hear your opinion on destroy wraths vs wraths that goes around indestructible/regeneration. More specifically, why would you run Wrath of God over Toxic Deluge/Black Sun's Zenith or Austere Command over Merciless Eviction. I'd even consider Decree of Pain as a lategame draw engine or just a generic wipe with Humility in play.
I'd like to hear your opinion on destroy wraths vs wraths that goes around indestructible/regeneration. More specifically, why would you run Wrath of God over Toxic Deluge/Black Sun's Zenith or Austere Command over Merciless Eviction. I'd even consider Decree of Pain as a lategame draw engine or just a generic wipe with Humility in play.
Hmmm..That's a good question. Made OP has more insight into this, but for my part you make a good point. My favorite wrath effects are Hallowed Burial and Terminus because they tuck. Black Sun's Zenith can be a heavy mana investment lategame though. And this deck already bleeds you out making the life loss from Toxic Deluge not favorable. But, I might be wrong here since I have not playtested any of them. This deck also has denial abilities in Tamiyo the Moon Sage and Jace the Mind Sculptor for those hard to get rid of creatures. But I am going to playtest I think. You make a good point
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Oh, sweet! I wonder if the planeswalker commanders will be too color spesific or if they will all be included with our Superfriends. It would be hard to find room for five walkers, but to be realistic I'm guessing 2-3 will be playable at most. They are probably printing more of the commander specific cards that will be worth including as well. If they print better wraths to replace my current wraths then thats fine by me.
What do you think about the new card End Hostilities? And Utter End? They might be good removal. I'm always annoyed that Sword of Light and Shadow and Lightning Greaves stay on board after a wrath, it would be nice to destroy them too.
I agree that Liliana is not the best of the bunch, but I will continue using her based on her performance so far. She might have to give up her spot to Teferi though.
I think that they will probably do pretty will, since they are made for the format. I'm really excited. I would love to an artifact, or enchantment, that has Teferi's ultimate.
Anyway, Utter End and End Hostilities both have potential. I, for one, am going to be making room for Utter End. If I were in a heavy voltron meta, or even an creature goodstuffs meta, I would consider End Hostilities. But for right now, I think it is too narrow for me compared to something like Terminus or Final Judgment. Another card in Khans I am considering, but I'm unsure due to space, is Crackling Doom. Three-for-ones seem good. But that's something else I probably don't have room for. Other than that, Khans hasn't had a lot I will be putting in. I'll do a set update when it releases, though! Hopefully I can start getting some other members on the thread for feedback and interest.
Deck: EDH Superfriends.dec
Counts : 100 main
Creatures:2
1 Academy Rector
1 Sliver Queen
Spells:61
1 Mana Crypt
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Farseek
1 Regrowth
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sylvan Library
1 Torpor Orb
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Chaos Warp
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dack Fayden
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Genesis Wave
1 Jace Beleren
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Vindicate
1 Wargate
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Moat
1 Ral Zarek
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Supreme Verdict
1 The Abyss
1 The Chain Veil
1 Wrath of God
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Doubling Season
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Liliana Vess
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Privileged Position
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Austere Command
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Sorin Markov
1 Terminus
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Karn Liberated
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Lands:37
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Strip Mine
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
What do you think about Island of Wak-Wak by the way?
Ok, thanks. I only have 12 post so I have no experience with that. But, I'll use it next time. Just fond this commander forum and wanted to chip in and get some response myself on card choises etc. Found your deck which was most similar to mine
I can imagine getting to activate every walker again would be better than any proliferate effect. I had Venser, Tezz, Chain Veil, Sol Ring and Mana Crypt out. I was blinking the Veil and untapping the Ring and Crypt to activate my walkers three times a turn. Was pretty sweet
WHITE:
End Hostilities - Seems fine if you're meta is very aggressive and features a lot of voltron style decks. Other than that, this five mana wrath gets outclassed fairly quickly when matched up against many others.
BLUE:
Clever Impersonator - I really like this card, I think I would enjoy playing it in about any blue deck. For us, it's utility is actually not as relevant since copying one of our planeswalkers will essentially just either boost their loyalty or give us an additional activation. Although we shouldn't forget it can copy other things such as Doubling Season, or an opponent's Omniscience.
Dig Through Time - Just a nice draw spell that will let you dig seven deep and get two cards out of it. This will most likely always cost UU. Although, during late game, you want something to sink your mana into, such as Sphinx's Revelation, and this is not what that does.
Quiet Contemplation - This seems like a really nice way to lock down threats to keep your planeswalkers trucking. Without any creatures in the deck, besides Sliver Queen, every time we cast a spell we can trigger this. Meaning we can essentially lock down a non-hexproof creature indefinitely if we wanted to.
BLACK:
Empty the Pits - This is a lot similar to Army of the Damned, but a lot more black mana intensive and most likely will be a lot cheaper. If you're looking for a non-planeswalker win condition for late game, this could be something to consider.
Murderous Cut - It's almost like a black Swords to Plowshares, but not. Anyways, I still like this card. I couldn't see running it in here, unless you are on a budget and in need of removal.
RED:
Goblinslide - Something I'm expecting most people did not expect to see in this review. Well, with no creatures besides our general, this will be triggered at least one or two times a turn, and I think that is a fine way to generate some chump blockers or Skullclamp fodder. Although we have better options, if you want to push the token theme a bit more, I would suggest considering this.
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - Whenever I consider playing this card, I just think about how I always end up cutting Gideon Jura, which I would say is most likely superior. While Sarkhan can ultimate, providing us some needed card advantage during stages of the late game, he still is outclassed by many other planeswalkers. Maybe I'll look into testing him down the road, but currently he doesn't seem to fit.
GREEN:
(...)
MULTICOLORED:
Abzan Charm - Probably my favorite charm out of all the charms that exist. It serves as removal, quite nice removal too, and can draw cards. I think the only one that competes is Bant Charm, which I always enjoyed casting.
Crackling Doom - This may be something to consider, but we cannot forget how color intensive it is. This can 3-for-1, while potentially even picking off opposing planeswalkers, all at instant speed. Seems like Kaalia players got a new toy with this one.
Narset, Enlightened Master - Say we play this. This would be the only creature card in our deck, effectively draw four and cast all the cards we drew for free every time she attacked. "Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Merciless Eviction, Doubling Season, Underground Sea". Uh, win the game? She may be something to consider, although I'm not sure if I want to make the move of leaving the creaturelessness of the deck behind.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor - I think what this Sorin really does is provide some needed life gain this deck doesn't really have. While his plus can be essentially useless a lot of the time, he is able to minus and provide us a flying body, to not only deal with flyers, but also to later have to utilize his plus.
Utter End - Practically a instant speed Vindicate for four mana. The "catch-all" removal spells are my favorite for this list, as the inclusion of cards such as Oblation and Chaos Warp reveal. This is no exception, as I think it does a better job than both of those, at least in my meta, where tucking the general is not a relevant.
Villainous Wealth - This is comparable to things such as Debt to the Deathless. Casting this for X=10 or more can most likely win you the game, but it is also reeaaally dead during early game. It may warrant some testing, but I'm unsure for now.
LANDS:
FETCHLANDS YAY! Well, I can say for most players who were looking to play this deck, or any three to five color deck, this is a relief. It at least makes obtaining these cards a little more reasonable.
DECK CHANGES:
Awakening Zone -> Ensnaring Bridge - I originally began testing Awakening Zone after a game where I felt like I needed some more ramp, and thought it provided a nice utility of creating tokens for various uses and also ramping. I think it does that pretty well, but one of the things I have continuously been noticing is that the deck has no way to deal with flying creatures, besides removal. Other than that, I think Ensnaring Bridge is awesome because it helps lock down attack triggers, unlike Maze of Ith or chump blocking.
Chaos Warp -> Utter End - I think for the most part Chaos Warp does its job quite well, and I have no problem with it. I just like Utter End more because it doesn't have that chance for turning one problem into a bigger problem, plus whatever you target most likely won't be coming back.
Ajani Vengeant -> Sorin, Solemn Visitor - As stated above, I think the new Sorin provides this deck some needed life gain. In terms of power level, and contribution to the deck, I think both of these cards are quite well. Right now I am just testing the switch because occasionally I feel like Ajani Vengeant doesn't contribute much to the game, besides maybe keeping something tapped down for a little bit.
So I have been debating on making some changes to increase the efficiency of the deck, probably push the superfriends theme a little more, and just make room for cards that probably fit the archetype better.
Here is what I'm considering, but haven't fully decided yet:
- Exsanguinate
- Debt to the Deathless
- Mirari's Wake
- Cyclonic Rift
- Jace, the Living Guildpact
+ Awakening Zone
+ Ajani Vengeant
+ Chaos Warp
+ The Abyss
+ Terminus
REMOVING FROM THE DECK:
- Exsanguinate - This and Debt to the Deathless both provided similar utility, but it always seemed too late. Essentially I enjoyed using these two cards for either win-conditions, or ways to put me so far ahead that I practically win. In addition to that, they provided some early life-gain, but like I said it always came too late, and both of these were always dead early game.
- Debt to the Deathless - See above.
- Mirari's Wake - This is one of the cards I'm removing which I am skeptical of taking out. When I look at this, I see an anthem effect which is quite nice with our token theme, but also as a way to essentially win the game. Unfortunately, with the removal of both of the X drain effects, this card loses a lot of its luster and ability to win us the game. Also, I noticed dropping this can quickly put a bulls-eye on our head.
- Cyclonic Rift - A really great card that I just am unsure about at the moment. Yes overloading this can quickly win you the game, but... it costs a lot, its other mode is at best a "meh", and its another card that generates a target on your head. Nevertheless I really like this card, I just do not think it fits this deck, though it fits many others.
ADDING TO THE DECK:
+ Awakening Zone - I think this card probably deserves more testing. Although it is a three drop, its uses are two fold, at least. Awakening Zone provides chump blockers for our walkers, and ourselves, in addition to ramping. Oh, and Skullclamp fodder to boot.
+ Ajani Vengeant - After removing this for Sorin 3.0, and with the removal of a few things, I quickly realized how good this Ajani can be for this deck.
+ Chaos Warp - Another card that is returning after the Khans of Tarkir update. Again, I basically realized that the "catch-all" removal spells are important to this list, this one is no exception.
+ Nevinyrral's Disk - I'm honestly not too sure what this card is was not doing in this deck. What is funny about this is while talking to my brother about updating my deck, I had sad, "Man, I wish there was a Planar Cleansing that did not hit planeswalkers." He quickly replied, "Akroma's Vengeance?" Duh. I originally had intentions on adding Akroma's Vengeance, but then I remember the disk. I think this is still up for debate, but since it can be recurred by Academy Ruins and tutored for by Tezzeret, the Seeker. I would like to hear feedback, though.
I'll probably be testing this as the current build up until Commander 2014 comes out, and I'm positive that there will be changes.
OTHER NEWS:
Earlier this week I applied for primer status. The review of the thread is supposed to take a couple weeks, and although there hasn't been many members contributing to the thread, yet, I think it would be exciting to bring the superfriends archetype together into one thread. For anyone who has suggestions on how to improve the thread to generate more views and to create a better thread, please let me know.
1 Academy Rector
1 Sliver Queen
Spells:61
1 Mana Crypt
1 Pact of Negation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Farseek
1 Regrowth
1 Mana Drain
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sterling Grove
1 Sylvan Library
1 Chaos Warp
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Hinder
1 Jace Beleren
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Rhystic Study
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Timetwister
1 Vindicate
1 Wargate
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Ral Zarek
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Supreme Verdict
1 The Abyss
1 The Chain Veil
1 Utter End
1 Wrath of God
1 Doubling Season
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Liliana Vess
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Privileged Position
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Austere Command
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Sorin Markov
1 Terminus
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Karn Liberated
1 Conflux
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Obliterate
1 Omniscience
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Strip Mine
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
I have added Omniscience to the deck and my main gameplan is now to get it out. With the best tutors in the game its fairly easy to do. Of course there are many moves to get it out. First you need Academy Rector and then you need it to die. Afterwards you need to actually have some spells to cast in your hand. This is why I have Conflux now and Timetwister (considering Wheel of Fortune too). I have also added Necropotence to draw into the cards I need. With Conflux I usually get: Doubling Season, Bolas, Ral Zarek, Venser, Timetwister. Doubling Season enables Ral to take a few turns while Bolas goes boom and Venser resets him. Cast Timetwister to refill and shuffle back your graveyard.
Counterspells have been added because my deck has drawn hate lately (before I included Omniscience) and people have played spells that leave me in bad shape. I'm even looking to add more but its hard to find good ones.
You were right about Ajani Steadfast. He does to little.
Now that is a card I never knew existed. Looks interesting. And even if you are forced to play a spell one turn it doesn't make Arboria dissappear.
Yeah, feel free to post on here whenever you update your deck or just to discuss different things, such as match-ups you're having or whatever.
On the Omniscience plan, I actually played something similar to this when I originally started playing this deck, but I found the early game draw of an Omniscience was a very dead card, and when I used Academy Rector to tutor for it my games became a little repetitive: "Cast Academy Rector, find a removal spell for Academy Rector, go get Omniscience, hopefully win before becoming archenemy."
I think the addition of counterspells, depending on your meta. Like you said, if you're drawing a lot of hate you may want to include some counterspells.
Have you made any updates from Khans?
H'm, that is an interesting card that I never knew existed. I think for this deck, I want my pillow-fort cards to apply to the planeswalkers in addition to myself. Although, if you meet a lot of aggro in your games, this may be something to consider including, in addition to some token producing mana-sinks, such as Sacred Mesa or Luminarch Ascension, etc. Also, something that serves a similar purpose as this card if you are meeting a lot of aggro is Peacekeeper. While I don't currently run this card, when I used to run a Bant super friends deck I did, and this guy was a champ. He can draw you hate, but generally you just buys you and your planeswalkers a few turns to get ahead.
Sorin has done me really well, thus far. I have only played a couple games with him, but he incrementally gains some life and the token does really help. I have yet to ultimate him, but I would imagine it would be amazing.
I will have to try him out. I initially though he was better than Lord of Inistrad. Then of course you need not compare the two. I'm always looking to improve my deck since its my favorite. But sometimes I think I might change it "just" to change it. On the other hand I find some cards I have considered auto-includes turned out to be sub par. Do you have experiences with this?
As for new cards coming out, that seem like they may be a good fit, I always like to at least test them to see. Sometimes the value of the card is not completely apparent on paper, and requires some testing to see how well it does. But I mean, same for other times you are changing it to just change it. Testing is necessary for a deck to develop. I know when I first started playing this deck that there were cards I considered staples: Omniscience, Academy Rector, and even more cards like Exsanguinate and Cyclonic Rift. Although, what I found is that when you play the deck more and more you figure out cards that just provide more value in more situations, or just a card can just be boring. So yes, there I definitely have this experience. I think what's best about five color decks is that you get to play whatever you want, and test whatever, so you are always changing your deck, for whatever reason.
+ Bitterblossom
- Mana Crypt
I don't know, though. It does seem a pretty good way to deal with flying attackers, but it theoretically only reduces the damage I take per turn by .5. I would like to hear some feedback on this idea, or suggestions.
In my experience the damage this deck delivers in massive...to the pilot. I once dominated a game where the opponent did not damage me, and I spent 20 lifepoints on Mana Crypt,Phyrexian Arena,Sylvan Library, shocklands and fetches... I think using your life as a resorce is great because it usually nets you a great advantage. But its also dangerous. If I'm gunning for the Omniscienceplay then it doesn't matter because once its out I'm probably winning. But in a multiplayer scene its scary. I think Bitterblossomseems like a very fitting card. With the new Sorins first ability they can give you some return for your lifeloss too. Flying blockers are great protection for walkers. But Mana Cryptis one of the best manarocks in EDH and ramps you ahead. I'm definetly pro Bitterblossombut not sure about cutting the Crypt. I have contemplated the need for Mirari's Wakemyself lately. It takes a turn to play it where I would want to do something else. Then again the pump for the tokens is powerful. I comes down to your meta I think.
I'm trying out Wheel of Fortuneright now since Timetwisterhas been great for me. Also The Abyssworks better than I thought. Its best early game where it kills powerful utility creatures like Oracle of Mul Daya.
I like idea of the draw spells, and it's probably something I should considered. Unfortunately Timetwistet is quite a bit out of my range, in terms of price. But it does seem like a nice way to refill my hand and also serve as graveyard control.
Here's the change I'm going to be testing, let me know what you guys think:
- Mana Crypt
- Assemble the Legion
+ Rhystic Study
+ Assemble the Legion
Rhystic Study is great. I have it in my deck now after I had taken it out for a while. I thought it wasn't helping out, but turns out it was a cheap & silent contributor. The games where I get either Phyrexian Arena, Sylvan Library, Rhystic Study, Jace Beleren or other cards like that out on turn three I get the headstart I need. I tend to think Rhystic is the weakest among these as I don't feel I draw to many cards off it. But my opponents tell me it slows down their game because they pay for Rhystic so I don't get the draw. So advantage! I recommend this card.
You wrote to both take out and add Assemble the Legion which card did you add? Let me know how the deck does without Mana Crypt
Hmmm..That's a good question. Made OP has more insight into this, but for my part you make a good point. My favorite wrath effects are Hallowed Burial and Terminus because they tuck. Black Sun's Zenith can be a heavy mana investment lategame though. And this deck already bleeds you out making the life loss from Toxic Deluge not favorable. But, I might be wrong here since I have not playtested any of them. This deck also has denial abilities in Tamiyo the Moon Sage and Jace the Mind Sculptor for those hard to get rid of creatures. But I am going to playtest I think. You make a good point