Have you put any thought into Arcane Denial? I really like it in a three color build, but it is going to come down to how many spots you want to devote to counter magic. For me, since my bant fetches and duals are in my Jenara list, assuming for Patron Wizard is a tall order. It is certainly good on board, but since I don't know how much better your mana base functions than mine (oh, I also run MLD, which can make it hard to keep trips of a color), it is hard to weigh in on the Wizard. But he has to be very consistent if he is going to be in the list.
Muddle I like, but in a tutor slot with the counterspell aspect being a happy additive. I would far prefer Swan Song over it as a counter, but if slots are a bit limited, I can see Muddle's versatility at least warranting testing.
Is post #7 the current deck or is #1 the current deck, it seemed like you switched gears somewhere, and I am not sure which way you are going. A change log would be wonderful to follow your thought process.
Keep us in the loop on Teeg. I had him included in my preliminary list, but dropped him because my curve was too high. As my list has become more refined, the curve has dropped dramatically, allowing for a revisiting with Teeg.
Is post #7 the current deck or is #1 the current deck, it seemed like you switched gears somewhere, and I am not sure which way you are going. A change log would be wonderful to follow your thought process.
The thought process is pretty long and the change log wouldn't be coherent. I started off thinking you could play Derevi prison. You can't and the reason is that a prison oriented build can only win when it's ahead and it really struggles to get ahead (see post 7). I saw other folks' aggro-combo builds (swarm -> cards and mana -> swarm), but they really relied on both Derevi and their Edric/Bident/Coastal Piracy not getting nerfed. Generals get tucked, even Derevi.
So, if you can't do control prison or aggro-combo, what's the right build? And the answer comes from Magic theory: 1) the first unanswered attempt to win wins. 2) There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. Maelstrom Wanderer just ramps into bombs and lobs them off the top of its deck until one sticks and maybe surgically penetrates any weak spots with a few from its hand. Derevi isn't a card advantage engine like Wanderer, but it is does share the mana advantage bit. It's greedy to expect 3-4 triggers a turn and that's still nothing like the mana that Maelstrom can provide (2 7cmc spells). Unlike Wanderer, though, we always get surgical control over how we use our advantage. So let's start there: how do we turn surgical control over tapping and untapping into wins?
The most obvious answer is Stasis: I untap a bit; you don't untap at all. Stasis extracts a price, though: we have to tap something every turn. So we need to rig the system: some critter we tap has to generate at least two untaps to keep Stasis going OR it has to not tap to deal damage. So Vigilance and double strike can be tremendously strong for us. The best of the best is something like: Mirran Crusader, Batterskull/Stoneforge Mystic, Heliod, Reconnaissance (free untaps + utility), Sun Titan, Brimaz, and maybe Roon/Silverblade Paladin/Stonybrook Schoolmaster. Okay, so we're going to abuse untaps. What if somebody plays Awakening? Or destroys our Stasis. We don't want to be like Kibler's The Deck where if somebody destroys one of our Serra Angels, we've effectively burnt 14 other cards.
If we can't build around Stasis and we need to diversify our threats, what's the best route? Well, we have to attack, that much is clear. And when we attack, we don't want all of our critters to die. Many have noted that cards exist that can turn attacks into cards: Edric/Bident/Coastal Piracy/Tandem Lookout. We pick those 4 mostly because they don't set up us for pinpoint removal to turn into card disadvantage. Yes, Keen Sense/Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/etc are cards. We can turn creatures into other creatures with Birthing Pod. We can turn creatures into bigger creatures with Beastmaster Ascension (and others). We can turn critters into board contrl with Aura Shards. And last, critters can combo with one another.
So, what if we play aggro? Maybe even the only aggro deck EDH supports. We're the beatdown. We're going to try to win before everyone else by playing proactive threats and dealing damage that might draw us cards or lead to us comboing out. But first and foremost, we're going to turn creatures sideways during the combat phase. If we want more triggers, we need more critters. Limited mana means those critters will be relatively small. We probably don't want to count on going toe to toe with big critters. So we want to prevent high cmc critters (and spells) from ever coming down and we want to win before they matter.
So, we take a multi-pronged approach. We're going to play a low curve of critters. Mana dorks, hate bears, and undercosted beaters with some higher CMC critters chosen mostly for their utility. Early on, we're going to present a tempo challenge (Edric/Beastmaster/swarm) to get our opponents to overcommit to ramping, but to do that, we need to stop sweepers. So we have to run some countermagic. We're going to ride that plan to victory if we can by thwarting the ramp: Kataki/Energy Flux/Aven Mindcensor/Aura Shards/Trygon Predator. The second line of attack is combo. This deck is actually full of microcombos:
Infi-Blink: Derevi+Deadeye+something that makes two or more mana
Infi-Counter: Infi-Blink + Patron Wizard
Infi-Draw: Infi-Blink + Azami
Tons of Draw/Counter: Azami/Patron Wizard + Prophet of Kruphix
Only your lands untap A: Roon + Hokori (blink in opponent's end step)
Only your lands untap B: Sword of Feast and Famine + Stasis/Orb/Hokori
Lock everyone down: Stasis/Winter Orb/Hokori + Derevi trigger(s)
Huge critters: Archangel of Thune + High Market + tokens/untaps
Pretty much win on the spot: Birthing Pod + Academy Rector (there must be some degenerate combination of an enchantment and a 5 cmc critter)
Keep us in the loop on Teeg. I had him included in my preliminary list, but dropped him because my curve was too high. As my list has become more refined, the curve has dropped dramatically, allowing for a revisiting with Teeg.
I found the same thing. At present, the deck only has a handful of spells that would even get caught on him. Seems like exactly the kind of proactive asymmetry we love.
As my critter count has shot up, I'm thinking Thalia might also have a place.
Another thing I'm wondering about is Azami + Mind Over Matter. It's easy to set up Birthing Pod + Academy Rector. I'm sure there are other examples of 5cmc critter + enchantment being bonkers. Ie. Ant Queen + Earthcraft + Karoo.
Last, I'm torn regarding Garruk Wildspeaker. Every single one of his abilities does something we want, but it's not clear to me that he has a place in here. What would you cut for him?
First off, I fully agree with the multipronged approach philosophy. The prison pieces are good for slowing things down, but we aren't locking everybody up and forcing concessions. We are buying time to do work in a situation in which we are disproportionately advantaged. Now, that is why Wildspeaker has been doing mad work for me. He creates the assymetry under our prison pieces, giving us loads more mana/turn than our opponents (I use Overgrowth to help this as well. Overgrowth on an Island is nasty with DEN, as well), while also building up for a straight up kill when he goes ultimate.
Now, as for what to cut for Garruk? That is a bit harder for me to evaluate, because largely due to budgetary reasons, my list remains decently off of yours, even if it is philosophically attempting to do the same thing. The cards that stand out most to me as potential cuts are Serra Ascendant (very efficient, but simply a beater), Voidmage Prodigy (definite upside, but at least for me the per activation is rough, and I prefer my tricks not to be of the on-board variety), Trygon Predator (I have not tried him in this deck, but he has always underperformed for me because he is too slow due to summoning sickness. I have never seen him actually connect when I played him, and have never had a hard time dealing with him when my opponents have played him. I tend to run Harmonic Sliver in his place.), Tandem Lookout (is this seriously better than Bident of Thassa or Coastal Piracy? Being a creature is a plus, for sure, but I would expect Bident to outperform it, given that it works for all your creatures and can force your opponents to attack), Roon of the Hidden Realm (I see the vigilance, I see some upside, but it seems possibly not consistent enough with our deck and is high CMC by our standards), and Snapcaster Mage (I feel a sense of sacrilege in suggesting him, but I see a dearth of valuable targets).
Also, a couple random cards that are probably not good enough to make the final cut, but maybe worth floating in the ol' noodle: Ajani Goldmane pumps our crew and is another "I win" card under Stasis-lock. The +1 and -6 are both pretty terrible, but the -1 does all the things we want. And under Stasis we can +1 and -1 him on alternate turns and still lock people out assuming a couple critters. Steward of Valeron is kind of random and crappy, but does the vigilance in addition to his ramp ability make him work in our deck? Probably not, but what the hell. Also, doesn't Seedborn Muse seem better than the double strike guys under stasis? Now, Murkfiend Liege is also pseudo-vigilance on our dudes, but I figure I will cut him soon because, well, it doesn't do enough in my opinion.
I love that Stonybrook Schoolmaster is in your list. I played him when it was a joke-deck based entirely around Opposition, but cut him soon afterward. But if it actually performs well, I'll put it back in.
Edit: Also worth noting is that DEN is not quite as good as it initially seems because unless the land we are untapping produces double blue, it is only infinite G/W mana, wich, outside of Heliod/Mobilization is not all that useful for us. With Gilded Lotus it is pretty much game over, but without at least two blue, we cannot blink any of our other guys.
With 38 other creatures on your list, is Fauna Shaman better than Survival of the Fittest? I would be leery of the lack of ability to use it the turn it comes down, and additionally only once/turn.
One more card I wonder about is Reveillark. Does it do much work for you?
Stasis has errata the printed text doesn't suggest: those untap steps are skipped so we can't untap during them.
Murkfiend Liege is cute. Pretty sure Garruk is the first priority, though.
Sure, Tandem -> Bident. Roon is solid with a range of cards: Reveillark (leaves the battlefield, not dies!), Glen Elendra, Eternal Witness, Snapcaster, Hokori, and Sun Titan. Not sure he's the obvious cut.
Lmao, I'm moronic. I knew it didn't untap the lands, but for some reason I was thinking it would still untap the creatures. D'oh!
As far as Thalia is concerned, I see her almost strictly as anti-wrath tech. She gets work in elsewhere, too, but as far as her purpose, that seems to be the main function. So to me the question becomes whether or not you need more anti-wrath tech. My suggestion would be to leave in Snapcaster for now (it is just sooooo good in a vacuum (ok, actually bad in a vacuum, but good in typical Magic decks)), and keep an eye on whether or not he is pulling weight. If he is, sounds great. If not, look to replace him. Just seems a bit weaker in this deck than most.
I am slowly transitioning my version of the deck from casual to competitive, so I will have better feedback a little bit down the road. I can only comment on what sticks out or what I am running for now.
I agree that Roon has some very solid interactions (at least from the eyeball test I ran on your list), but to me it looks like a card that will eventually be a better fit card for the deck. I don't know what yet, and I may simply be wrong. He looks like solid filler for now, in my opinion. If not for the vigilance I would say drop him like a bad habit, but he serves multiple functions we want: Getting mileage out of value creatures, operating under oppressive conditions, solid against wrath, abusable with untap triggers, vigilance. Even with all that said, I don't see him being in the list a month or two from now.
How do you feel about Ajani Goldmane? If I get my hands on one, I think I'll give it a test. Proactive and ostensibly works with our strategy. May flop hardcore. We'll see.
Tandem -> Bident
Snappy -> Survival
Deadeye -> Garruk
As far as Ajani Goldmane, I think he's only good when you're already winning. Ie. You already have 2-3 critters out, they have a soft target to attack, and you have some flavor of Orb out.
Also worth a thought: Reveillark + Body Double + any repeatable sac outlet OR Mirror Entity is an infi combo. If we're willing to put Derevi in the grave, that's infi taps/untaps at instant speed whenever we feel like it. Venser in the grave is pretty much a hard lock (bounce all opponents' perms). Azami is infi draw. It just seems really easy to have a value critter or two in the grave before getting Reveillark and Body double up via tutoring.
Maybe...
Roon -> Body Double
Stonybrook Schoolmaster -> Mirror Entity
Two effects you wanted anyways.
Edit: And responding to Trygon vs Harmonic Sliver... 1/1 vs 2/3 flying is no small different. Under some situations, that repeatable bit matters, too. I agree that Harmonic is markedly faster, but it's not clear to me how much we need good removal vs good beaters.
I agree with what you are saying. It depends on what you are trying to do with the card slot. If you are looking for a beater that also has value, Trygon is better. If you are looking for a slot to hate off artifacts/enchantments, Sliver is better. Sliver is also clampable immediately, and is a great silver bullet option for our creature tutors (especially the ones that go directly into play, but EOT Eladamri's Call works, too). So yeah, Trygon is the better proactive beater, but not at all reliable for his effect (in my experience). Sliver is the better option for tutoring and answers. Given the nature of the deck, until we find ourselves losing too often to problem artifacts/enchantments, I'd say Trygon is the way to go.
Edit: Random thing of note -> Sliver also has utility to blow up your copies of the artifact hate enchantments, if you are stuck on one and want to stick an Orb. Also reusable through cloning (which actually gives you two activations off of the second, three off of the third, etc. which can either be good or bad, sice you HAVE to target with them, and we can either get great value or end up blowing up our own stuff).
Mirror Entity is a good game ender that I happen to run, but we really don't want him until it's time to go for the throat. He does not otherwise do a good job of advancing our plan. Not saying he isn't worth it, but in my experience with the deck, he is not grade A beef. The 'Lark combo option is always nice, though, and with the addition of Survival, we can actually set it up.
One more thing of note: If we are going to enable the 'Lark combo, another card worth considering is Martyr's Cause. This is a great defensive card, allows us to EOT tap Static Orb every time our turn comes around, and makes us very hard to kill. Also an infinite use sac outlet for the Reveillark shenanigans negating the need for Entity on board.
Obviously not all this has to get packed into the list immediately, but they are good things to keep in mind.
Once the combo is up, you're Vensering everyone's board and the game just ends. You probably also have infinite mana off Derevi. If we assume you used Survival to set the whole thing up, you can reasonably expect to draw your entire library and dump every critter in it into play. Not sure we need extra enablers unless they're also critters.
You can let Derevi die. You don't have to put him into the command zone. Since his power is <=2, Reveillark can return him and each time he does, you can untap a land. Repeat infinite times to make infinite mana.
Trying to be as degenerate as possible with no extra cards:
Derevi and Survival in play, at least 1 critter in hand.
Survival Body Double, Mirror Entity, and Venser into grave, Reveillark into hand.
Evoke Reveillark returning Body Double and Mirror Entity.
Stack X+Y+2 activations of Mirror Entity for 0
Resolve the X activations, Body Double dies and returns itself and Venser X times, bouncing all X of your opponents' permanents.
Resolve the next Y activations, Body Double dies and returns itself and Derevi Y times, Derevi untaps your lands Y times.
Resolve the second to last activation, Body Double dies and you return Derevi to the command zone, stack Body Double returning itself and Venser.
Use Derevi's ability to put him into play. Venser bounces him to your hand. Survival out Derevi for Heliod.
Resolve the the last activation, Body Double dies and you return Derevi to the command zone, stack Body Double returning itself and whatever you want. Heliod makes infinite tokens, your opponents have an empty board.
You can actually take this further and abuse Eternal Witness recursion to put every creature in your deck into your hand and then into play, but that's just wanking.
I definitely overlooked that. Question is whether or not that replaces Stasis. It's no small thing to stop mana rocks and dorks from untapping. If it doesn't replace it, what should it replace?
At present, I actually think Survival + Prophet is better since you can just evoke Reveillark at instant speed and win.
For now because I do not have the resources to put into the Derevi deck just yet, my version will have to promote some level of versatility over some of the focus in your list. When all is said and done, the testing should be useful in terms of developing a more budget version of your list since I thibk we are more or less on the same page as to what we are trying to do.
I think that the addition of Survival bodes well for the relevance of Muddle the Mixture. That gives your list a number of strong targets for the transmute:
Given that it also functions as a counter and can transmute for your better counters if need be, I think that the versatility and tutor function may allow you to open up some card slots by cutting some of the redundant effects (potentially Aura Shards and Energy Flux come out with the ability to tutor up Kataki and Pridemage with both Survival and Muddle. Also, with the Reveillark combo in, do we still need Archangel + Spikefeeder? That opens up potentially 4 or so slots for testing.
Also, fyi, in your decklist the card link to Voidmage Prodigy ("void mage" is spaced into two words) is broken.
Kataki is a speed bump, but Energy Flux is almost insurmountable. It's such a strong silver bullet against Sharuum and artifact ramp that they just scoop. Think one-sided 2U armageddon. That said, Kataki is an excellent speed bump against unprepared opponents.
Counterspell -> Muddle the Mixture.
Archangel is so strong in testing that I'd run it even without Spike Feeder. The combo is easier to assemble with Birthing Pod or Fauna Shaman and has no reliance on the grave. There's no way to claim that Spike Feeder stands on its own merits, though.
For the sake of devil's advocate (I have not tested, do not own, nor do I have any plans of picking up for more than $5 (probably never because casual players inflate the prices of Angels) an Archangel of Thune), I would argue that Mirror Entity serves the same function with a higher ceiling (albeit at the significant annoyance of a constant mana sink) and greater immediate impact. It is worse over time, as +1/+1 counters are waaaay better than dumping your mana every turn, but it hits earlier and harder off the bat, and maintains the crucial element of being the crux of a game-ending combo. When it gets harder to make cuts, I feel as if these are the types of cuts that get made. That said, we may not be at that point yet or ever. But it is at least something to think about, especially if we see some new cards that need to be tested get printed, or if someone stumbles across some nasty tech we have missed.
Haha, all that said, I ran into a very annoying situation against some ghetto crap decks who I could not find a way to punch through attacks to utilize my Bident of Thassa and the game ended because one of the decks Traumatized the other, and the guy who got nailed playd some dude whose p/t are equal to cards in your bin and trample. The following game I lost to a kind of decently built Oloro deck despite getting nutty with tokens and Overgrowth on a karoo with Mobilization in play. My early Hokori got Fiend Huntered (embarrassing!!) and the Oloro player Storm Herded for 54 pegasi. I had a one turn window to come up with a Static Orb, Stasis, Supreme Verdict, Cataclysm, Ghostly Prison, or Propaganda and could not. I need to cut the MLD and add more good aggression and card advantage, but with this being my #2 bant project and #4-6 overall in terms of budget, I am having a hard time fleshing out my list with as cohesive a strategy as I would like.
We had a minor disagreement over Serra Ascendant earlier. I think that fat/undercosted attackers are important simply to make sure your creatures are actually connecting. Something like Gavony Township/Batterskull/Beastmaster/Garruk can make all the difference there. My previous builds also had Venser PW because all three of his abilities are relevant. Other options include Bow of Nylea/Asceticism/Lurking Predators/Basilisk Collar/Absolute Law/Absolute Grace
I'm not sure that Archangel is worth the $$$, or that the combo should be included. Spike Feeder definitely doesn't stand on its own merits. But we have to have several strong pump effects to play a convincing aggro game.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Muddle I like, but in a tutor slot with the counterspell aspect being a happy additive. I would far prefer Swan Song over it as a counter, but if slots are a bit limited, I can see Muddle's versatility at least warranting testing.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
The thought process is pretty long and the change log wouldn't be coherent. I started off thinking you could play Derevi prison. You can't and the reason is that a prison oriented build can only win when it's ahead and it really struggles to get ahead (see post 7). I saw other folks' aggro-combo builds (swarm -> cards and mana -> swarm), but they really relied on both Derevi and their Edric/Bident/Coastal Piracy not getting nerfed. Generals get tucked, even Derevi.
So, if you can't do control prison or aggro-combo, what's the right build? And the answer comes from Magic theory: 1) the first unanswered attempt to win wins. 2) There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. Maelstrom Wanderer just ramps into bombs and lobs them off the top of its deck until one sticks and maybe surgically penetrates any weak spots with a few from its hand. Derevi isn't a card advantage engine like Wanderer, but it is does share the mana advantage bit. It's greedy to expect 3-4 triggers a turn and that's still nothing like the mana that Maelstrom can provide (2 7cmc spells). Unlike Wanderer, though, we always get surgical control over how we use our advantage. So let's start there: how do we turn surgical control over tapping and untapping into wins?
The most obvious answer is Stasis: I untap a bit; you don't untap at all. Stasis extracts a price, though: we have to tap something every turn. So we need to rig the system: some critter we tap has to generate at least two untaps to keep Stasis going OR it has to not tap to deal damage. So Vigilance and double strike can be tremendously strong for us. The best of the best is something like: Mirran Crusader, Batterskull/Stoneforge Mystic, Heliod, Reconnaissance (free untaps + utility), Sun Titan, Brimaz, and maybe Roon/Silverblade Paladin/Stonybrook Schoolmaster. Okay, so we're going to abuse untaps. What if somebody plays Awakening? Or destroys our Stasis. We don't want to be like Kibler's The Deck where if somebody destroys one of our Serra Angels, we've effectively burnt 14 other cards.
If we can't build around Stasis and we need to diversify our threats, what's the best route? Well, we have to attack, that much is clear. And when we attack, we don't want all of our critters to die. Many have noted that cards exist that can turn attacks into cards: Edric/Bident/Coastal Piracy/Tandem Lookout. We pick those 4 mostly because they don't set up us for pinpoint removal to turn into card disadvantage. Yes, Keen Sense/Curiosity/Ophidian Eye/etc are cards. We can turn creatures into other creatures with Birthing Pod. We can turn creatures into bigger creatures with Beastmaster Ascension (and others). We can turn critters into board contrl with Aura Shards. And last, critters can combo with one another.
So, what if we play aggro? Maybe even the only aggro deck EDH supports. We're the beatdown. We're going to try to win before everyone else by playing proactive threats and dealing damage that might draw us cards or lead to us comboing out. But first and foremost, we're going to turn creatures sideways during the combat phase. If we want more triggers, we need more critters. Limited mana means those critters will be relatively small. We probably don't want to count on going toe to toe with big critters. So we want to prevent high cmc critters (and spells) from ever coming down and we want to win before they matter.
So, we take a multi-pronged approach. We're going to play a low curve of critters. Mana dorks, hate bears, and undercosted beaters with some higher CMC critters chosen mostly for their utility. Early on, we're going to present a tempo challenge (Edric/Beastmaster/swarm) to get our opponents to overcommit to ramping, but to do that, we need to stop sweepers. So we have to run some countermagic. We're going to ride that plan to victory if we can by thwarting the ramp: Kataki/Energy Flux/Aven Mindcensor/Aura Shards/Trygon Predator. The second line of attack is combo. This deck is actually full of microcombos:
Infi-Blink: Derevi+Deadeye+something that makes two or more mana
Infi-Counter: Infi-Blink + Patron Wizard
Infi-Draw: Infi-Blink + Azami
Tons of Draw/Counter: Azami/Patron Wizard + Prophet of Kruphix
Only your lands untap A: Roon + Hokori (blink in opponent's end step)
Only your lands untap B: Sword of Feast and Famine + Stasis/Orb/Hokori
Lock everyone down: Stasis/Winter Orb/Hokori + Derevi trigger(s)
Huge critters: Archangel of Thune + High Market + tokens/untaps
Pretty much win on the spot: Birthing Pod + Academy Rector (there must be some degenerate combination of an enchantment and a 5 cmc critter)
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
I found the same thing. At present, the deck only has a handful of spells that would even get caught on him. Seems like exactly the kind of proactive asymmetry we love.
As my critter count has shot up, I'm thinking Thalia might also have a place.
Another thing I'm wondering about is Azami + Mind Over Matter. It's easy to set up Birthing Pod + Academy Rector. I'm sure there are other examples of 5cmc critter + enchantment being bonkers. Ie. Ant Queen + Earthcraft + Karoo.
Last, I'm torn regarding Garruk Wildspeaker. Every single one of his abilities does something we want, but it's not clear to me that he has a place in here. What would you cut for him?
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
First off, I fully agree with the multipronged approach philosophy. The prison pieces are good for slowing things down, but we aren't locking everybody up and forcing concessions. We are buying time to do work in a situation in which we are disproportionately advantaged. Now, that is why Wildspeaker has been doing mad work for me. He creates the assymetry under our prison pieces, giving us loads more mana/turn than our opponents (I use Overgrowth to help this as well. Overgrowth on an Island is nasty with DEN, as well), while also building up for a straight up kill when he goes ultimate.
Now, as for what to cut for Garruk? That is a bit harder for me to evaluate, because largely due to budgetary reasons, my list remains decently off of yours, even if it is philosophically attempting to do the same thing. The cards that stand out most to me as potential cuts are Serra Ascendant (very efficient, but simply a beater), Voidmage Prodigy (definite upside, but at least for me the per activation is rough, and I prefer my tricks not to be of the on-board variety), Trygon Predator (I have not tried him in this deck, but he has always underperformed for me because he is too slow due to summoning sickness. I have never seen him actually connect when I played him, and have never had a hard time dealing with him when my opponents have played him. I tend to run Harmonic Sliver in his place.), Tandem Lookout (is this seriously better than Bident of Thassa or Coastal Piracy? Being a creature is a plus, for sure, but I would expect Bident to outperform it, given that it works for all your creatures and can force your opponents to attack), Roon of the Hidden Realm (I see the vigilance, I see some upside, but it seems possibly not consistent enough with our deck and is high CMC by our standards), and Snapcaster Mage (I feel a sense of sacrilege in suggesting him, but I see a dearth of valuable targets).
Also, a couple random cards that are probably not good enough to make the final cut, but maybe worth floating in the ol' noodle: Ajani Goldmane pumps our crew and is another "I win" card under Stasis-lock. The +1 and -6 are both pretty terrible, but the -1 does all the things we want. And under Stasis we can +1 and -1 him on alternate turns and still lock people out assuming a couple critters. Steward of Valeron is kind of random and crappy, but does the vigilance in addition to his ramp ability make him work in our deck? Probably not, but what the hell. Also, doesn't Seedborn Muse seem better than the double strike guys under stasis? Now, Murkfiend Liege is also pseudo-vigilance on our dudes, but I figure I will cut him soon because, well, it doesn't do enough in my opinion.
I love that Stonybrook Schoolmaster is in your list. I played him when it was a joke-deck based entirely around Opposition, but cut him soon afterward. But if it actually performs well, I'll put it back in.
Edit: Also worth noting is that DEN is not quite as good as it initially seems because unless the land we are untapping produces double blue, it is only infinite G/W mana, wich, outside of Heliod/Mobilization is not all that useful for us. With Gilded Lotus it is pretty much game over, but without at least two blue, we cannot blink any of our other guys.
With 38 other creatures on your list, is Fauna Shaman better than Survival of the Fittest? I would be leery of the lack of ability to use it the turn it comes down, and additionally only once/turn.
One more card I wonder about is Reveillark. Does it do much work for you?
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Murkfiend Liege is cute. Pretty sure Garruk is the first priority, though.
Sure, Tandem -> Bident. Roon is solid with a range of cards: Reveillark (leaves the battlefield, not dies!), Glen Elendra, Eternal Witness, Snapcaster, Hokori, and Sun Titan. Not sure he's the obvious cut.
Thoughts on Snapcaster vs Thalia?
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
As far as Thalia is concerned, I see her almost strictly as anti-wrath tech. She gets work in elsewhere, too, but as far as her purpose, that seems to be the main function. So to me the question becomes whether or not you need more anti-wrath tech. My suggestion would be to leave in Snapcaster for now (it is just sooooo good in a vacuum (ok, actually bad in a vacuum, but good in typical Magic decks)), and keep an eye on whether or not he is pulling weight. If he is, sounds great. If not, look to replace him. Just seems a bit weaker in this deck than most.
I am slowly transitioning my version of the deck from casual to competitive, so I will have better feedback a little bit down the road. I can only comment on what sticks out or what I am running for now.
I agree that Roon has some very solid interactions (at least from the eyeball test I ran on your list), but to me it looks like a card that will eventually be a better fit card for the deck. I don't know what yet, and I may simply be wrong. He looks like solid filler for now, in my opinion. If not for the vigilance I would say drop him like a bad habit, but he serves multiple functions we want: Getting mileage out of value creatures, operating under oppressive conditions, solid against wrath, abusable with untap triggers, vigilance. Even with all that said, I don't see him being in the list a month or two from now.
How do you feel about Ajani Goldmane? If I get my hands on one, I think I'll give it a test. Proactive and ostensibly works with our strategy. May flop hardcore. We'll see.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Tandem -> Bident
Snappy -> Survival
Deadeye -> Garruk
As far as Ajani Goldmane, I think he's only good when you're already winning. Ie. You already have 2-3 critters out, they have a soft target to attack, and you have some flavor of Orb out.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Maybe...
Roon -> Body Double
Stonybrook Schoolmaster -> Mirror Entity
Two effects you wanted anyways.
Edit: And responding to Trygon vs Harmonic Sliver... 1/1 vs 2/3 flying is no small different. Under some situations, that repeatable bit matters, too. I agree that Harmonic is markedly faster, but it's not clear to me how much we need good removal vs good beaters.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
I agree with what you are saying. It depends on what you are trying to do with the card slot. If you are looking for a beater that also has value, Trygon is better. If you are looking for a slot to hate off artifacts/enchantments, Sliver is better. Sliver is also clampable immediately, and is a great silver bullet option for our creature tutors (especially the ones that go directly into play, but EOT Eladamri's Call works, too). So yeah, Trygon is the better proactive beater, but not at all reliable for his effect (in my experience). Sliver is the better option for tutoring and answers. Given the nature of the deck, until we find ourselves losing too often to problem artifacts/enchantments, I'd say Trygon is the way to go.
Edit: Random thing of note -> Sliver also has utility to blow up your copies of the artifact hate enchantments, if you are stuck on one and want to stick an Orb. Also reusable through cloning (which actually gives you two activations off of the second, three off of the third, etc. which can either be good or bad, sice you HAVE to target with them, and we can either get great value or end up blowing up our own stuff).
Mirror Entity is a good game ender that I happen to run, but we really don't want him until it's time to go for the throat. He does not otherwise do a good job of advancing our plan. Not saying he isn't worth it, but in my experience with the deck, he is not grade A beef. The 'Lark combo option is always nice, though, and with the addition of Survival, we can actually set it up.
One more thing of note: If we are going to enable the 'Lark combo, another card worth considering is Martyr's Cause. This is a great defensive card, allows us to EOT tap Static Orb every time our turn comes around, and makes us very hard to kill. Also an infinite use sac outlet for the Reveillark shenanigans negating the need for Entity on board.
Obviously not all this has to get packed into the list immediately, but they are good things to keep in mind.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
It works. More specifically:
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Standard_Reveillark_Combo_deck
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Rising Waters + Prophet of Kruphix/Seedborn Muse?
GWU Derevi, the Prison Queen UWG
At present, I actually think Survival + Prophet is better since you can just evoke Reveillark at instant speed and win.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
I think that the addition of Survival bodes well for the relevance of Muddle the Mixture. That gives your list a number of strong targets for the transmute:
Given that it also functions as a counter and can transmute for your better counters if need be, I think that the versatility and tutor function may allow you to open up some card slots by cutting some of the redundant effects (potentially Aura Shards and Energy Flux come out with the ability to tutor up Kataki and Pridemage with both Survival and Muddle. Also, with the Reveillark combo in, do we still need Archangel + Spikefeeder? That opens up potentially 4 or so slots for testing.
Also, fyi, in your decklist the card link to Voidmage Prodigy ("void mage" is spaced into two words) is broken.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Counterspell -> Muddle the Mixture.
Archangel is so strong in testing that I'd run it even without Spike Feeder. The combo is easier to assemble with Birthing Pod or Fauna Shaman and has no reliance on the grave. There's no way to claim that Spike Feeder stands on its own merits, though.
Voidmage spelling fixed, ty.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Haha, all that said, I ran into a very annoying situation against some ghetto crap decks who I could not find a way to punch through attacks to utilize my Bident of Thassa and the game ended because one of the decks Traumatized the other, and the guy who got nailed playd some dude whose p/t are equal to cards in your bin and trample. The following game I lost to a kind of decently built Oloro deck despite getting nutty with tokens and Overgrowth on a karoo with Mobilization in play. My early Hokori got Fiend Huntered (embarrassing!!) and the Oloro player Storm Herded for 54 pegasi. I had a one turn window to come up with a Static Orb, Stasis, Supreme Verdict, Cataclysm, Ghostly Prison, or Propaganda and could not. I need to cut the MLD and add more good aggression and card advantage, but with this being my #2 bant project and #4-6 overall in terms of budget, I am having a hard time fleshing out my list with as cohesive a strategy as I would like.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
I'm not sure that Archangel is worth the $$$, or that the combo should be included. Spike Feeder definitely doesn't stand on its own merits. But we have to have several strong pump effects to play a convincing aggro game.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420