Hello. Like many of you, whenever I tap out for Sudden Impact, I often find myself thinking, "Man, I wish I could do that with Forests!" Or how about the times when you're playing mono U control and someone scoops out of frustration? Love playing with White's life gain, but hate tapping a Plains? Then have I got the deck for you!
The basic idea of the deck is to play White, Blue, Black, and Red spells with Green using cards that for whatever reason break out of Green's traditional color pie. Green is usually known for RAMP, RAMP, RAMP, PLAY FATTY, MAKE FATTY BIGGER, SWING. And that's all good. The world needs Azusa, Lost but Seekings and Omnath, Locus of Manas (not really, but don't tell them that). Green also sometimes shares life gain with White, card draw with Blue, recursion with Black, and hating Blue aggressive creatures with Red. We'll take advantage of that since it makes Green look less Green.
Ultimately, what you end up getting is a more reactive control-ish deck. I know, I know, playing mono G control is hardly fair to the opponents, but you'll have to trust me that it's okay (I've actually seen a player concede to Hall of Gemstone though). Speaking of which, that's the kind of card I'm looking for with this deck. Stuff like:
All of those have effects that Green typically doesn't get to enjoy. And they're relatively good. Not really looking to play Avoid Fate, Natural Selection, or Hornet Sting. I might pick up Beast Within, Mirri's Guile, and Sylvan Library eventually though. I don't have them so they're not in the list at the moment, but they might work as well. Tornado and Splintering Wind are iffy because I'm not sure the deck could use them very well. Using artifacts is okay to fill in some of the holes, but it kinda defeats the purpose of showing that Green can play hardball too.
WUDosan the Falling Leaf: Dosan seemed like the natural choice to lead this deck. Looking around at all of the Green legends, most of them have something to do with either lands, mana, big creatures, or lots of creatures, so that narrowed down the choices pretty quickly. Perhaps the most important thing Dosan does is allow you to play without having to worry about counterspells or being interrupted by things not on the field. It can also mess with people who like to play during the turns of other players (I'm looking at you Prophet of Kruphix) or just players who like using some end of turn instant speed card draw. Since the deck is fairly controlling, Dosan adds yet another hoop for your opponents to jump through.
Creatures:
GBurnished Hart: Ramp on a small stick is helpful. I really prefer creatures who have more use to me dead than alive since creatures are the most likely type of permanent to die.
WGCaller of the Claw: Okay, so it's pretty much only in here right now as a combo piece with Natural Affinity, but I think it could have some other applications in the future. Also, bears.
BGenesis: Speaking of creatures more useful when dead, Genesis helps give the deck some much needed recursion. When combined with Spike Weaver, it can create a combat lock. When used with Krosan Tusker, it's a bit expensive, but basically draw a card and a land for 4GG every turn. It can also help re-reamp with things like Burnished Hart and Solemn Simulacrum.
BRIfh-Bíff Efreet: Do you have more life and at least four more mana than your opponents have life? Congratulations, you win! Mr. Biff is a card from way back who adds a bit of extra punch to the deck. Green isn't usually known for direct damage wins, but Biff delivers it in spades. Since you can retain priority when you use his ability, he doesn't mind that he dies in the process.
WRKamahl, Fist of Krosa: We're just going to pretend the second ability doesn't exist. What we're really interested in is the pay one mana to destroy target land in response to a Wrath of God. Yeah, it's mean. But this is only one of two situational Green MLD cards in the deck, and your opponents can't get that upset with that, right? Once again, another creature that works best when he's about to die.
UGKrosan Tusker: Drawing cards and fetching lands at instant speed without having to technically cast a spell? Sounds good. You probably won't ever actually cast him.
UGMagus of the Library: A little bit of ramp, a little bit of card draw. Either way, Magus will give you what you need. I probably average about three draws from him per game when I start with him in my opening hand which is pretty good for his two mana investment. If nothing else, he'll also help ramp.
WNullmage Advocate: Reusable artifact and enchantment destruction, a small body, and can be used to give your opponents back favorable cards.
WBScavenging Ooze: Eats graveyards, gains life, gets bigger. Against graveyard dependent or mill decks, he can be a house if not answered.
UGSolemn Simulacrum: Helps ramp a bit and replaces himself when he dies. He's run almost universally and for good reason.
WSpike Weaver: Every day is a Holy Day with Spike Weaver. This deck needs defense since it can draw a bit of hate sometimes and this card provides that defense. It's also reusable with Genesis.
BStuffy Doll: Stuffy can be an interesting road block to some decks. He also works really well with some of the mass direct damage cards in the deck such as Ifh-Bíff Efreet, Hurricane, or Squall Line. Of course, there's always Pariah's Shield as well.
BRViseling: What do we hate? People with more cards than us! What are we gonna do about it? Burn 'em! Viseling does run the risk of being copied or stolen, but for the most part he's a pretty effective little dude.
UWillow Satyr: People will think twice before landing their general. Unfortunately, he's very fragile. If he sticks, you can steal some stuff though.
UGYavimaya Elder: Yet another card that gets us lands and draw cards when it dies. A three for one that can be recurred with Genesis is nice.
Enchantments:
WArboria: Many wincons in the deck involve sitting on your butt and doing nothing. Arboria will give you the much needed time to do all the nothing you want. Sit back, relax, grab a Fruit Roll-Up, and clicking that "OK" button.
GCarpet of Flowers: This will usually be a relevant card since someone is probably playing blue somewhere. It provides a little extra ramp, but it's also a good way to get around Freyalise's Winds and Ritual of Subdual.
BRCyclone: Automatically puts the game on a 9 turn clock while wiping creatures. Combined with Pariah's Shield on something with Darksteel Plate or Stuffy Doll, it doesn't affect you. It's very slow, but it'll wipe the board every turn for you, and you can always choose to end it.
WUFreyalise's Winds: This card will annoy some people because it makes the game twice as long basically. But I love long games, so that's fine. The slower the game goes, the better this deck usually does so extra time is always welcome. Plus, you'll have a large amount of lands from all of your ramping probably and it won't affect you quite as much. You can also think of it as saying "each creature can't attack if it attacked last turn", so not only does it mean that opponents won't be dumping their entire hands every turn, it also means that combat isn't as deadly for you. Definitely an all-star card in the deck. Also, the reason I don't use Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger is because I have a pet peeve about getting my stuff copied or stolen, especially if it ruins my stuff.
WHall of Gemstone: Another all-star in the deck. Play this on turn three and get ready to either rock the table for the rest of the game or suffer a swift defeat as everyone targets you. Played early, it shuts off access to many of your opponents playing their generals which can be a fatal blow depending upon the deck. As an added bonus, it means no counterspells during your turn since it makes the mana for everyone the chosen color. In a way, it's sort of like a second Dosan that always messes with multicolored decks. You can also still use stuff like Constant Mists before the trigger of Hall of Gemstone if you think you're going to be attacked. Also, no more Prophet of Kruphix or Aura Shards. You can still get around it with mana rocks though.
WBHolistic Wisdom: We do use a lot of situational cards in the deck. Thankfully, Holistic Wisdom makes good use of that by allowing you to ditch cards you don't need for ones that you do by bringing back ANY card in your graveyard as long as it shares a type with one in your hand. An extremely useful and underrated card as it's allowed me to pull off many wins that I wouldn't have gotten without it.
WLifegift: This card usually will gain me an average of 25+ per game if in my opening hand. Not bad for three mana. Since some of our wincons hurt us as well, it can be the tipping point sometimes.
GMana Reflection: Doubling up on your mana allows for massive Hurricanes and Freyalise's Winds won't hurt you as much. It also allows you to get more potential card advantage of course if you can use the mana to draw cards.
BNature's Wrath: This has ruined a Lazav, Dimir Mastermind's day when an opponent used Warp World. For the low cost of one green every turn, you can basically keep your Black and Blue opponents at parity. Shuts down things like Bitterblossom as well.
RPrimal Order: It's half of Price of Progress on every one of your turns. We don't run any lands that aren't basics and this will usually deal at least three or more damage per turn to opponents. It's best when played late in the game and everyone's already flooded their board with nonbasics. Against some five color decks, it can be lethal. Another wincon where we just want to sit and try to live while it does its thing.
UTitania's Song: This is a really fun card. It'll shut down a lot of opposing stax or prison decks. If you have out Spike Weaver or have Constant Mists in hand, it's not as big of a deal when your opponent's artifacts become creatures. It can mess with some of our card draw engines though so use it wisely. It's also a good answer to getting rid of mana rocks for a total lock with Ritual of Subdual or Hall of Gemstone.
UViridian Revel: I wasn't sure about this card at first, but it's shocking how much artifacts go to the graveyard. Drawing ten cards off of this per game isn't unusual if it comes out early which is quite nice for a three mana investment.
Auras:
GBlanchwood Armor: I might eventually replace this card or I might not. It's one of the cards I loved when I first got into Magic more than ten years ago. Also, I always think of Roshi when I put this on Dosan and swing for lethal.
WRKudzu: Certainly a sleeper. Surprisingly this card usually doesn't come back to you all that often since you'll have all Forests and you'll have a lot of them. It also doesn't get removed as much as you'd think but can still cause fits for some players.
Instants:
WConstant Mists: We'll usually have a lot of lands, so this card can hold off attacks for quite a bit. Of course, Dosan has to not be present.
WRNatural Affinity: Ideally, this would be played when I have a bunch of stuff out like Primal Order or Iron Maiden and someone wraths the board. Following it up with Caller of the Claw is a potential wincon. It can also be used to create a table of attackers or blockers.
UGSlice in Twain: A little bit of card draw and a little bit of enchantment and artifact destruction.
RSquall Line: At instant speed, Squall Line is always the option of last resort. It can tie games as well if you'd lose otherwise.
RStorm Seeker: Since it's basically Sudden Impact but in Green, it fits right into the deck. With Dosan out, those Blue mages won't be able to stop it with their pesky counterspells.
Sorceries:
GBoundless Realms: Doubles your mana base. More importantly, it thins out the deck drastically.
WCalming Verse: Dosan doesn't really mind playing things on our turn or tapping out. Tranquil Grove is an alternative, but it draws more hate possibly and hits our own stuff which we really need.
GCultivate: Ensures that you make it to five mana successfully.
UGaea's Blessing: Mill is actually sort of a problem for this deck since it relies on long games and that's when mill gets dangerous. It also replaces itself if you draw it.
WRNatural Balance: Believe it or not, this card can be really useful. It's situational MLD that punishes other people ramping ahead of you. It can also be used late game to set the playing field back to even if you have a better board position than your opponents and you don't want them to have access to a lot of mana.
GNature's Lore: Ensures that you make it to three mana successfully.
UBPraetor's Counsel: Allows you to reuse ramp spells, wincons, etc. Depending upon the stuff in your yard, it can be a game changer.
UVedalken Orrery: Allows us to flash in Kamahl, Fist of Krosa for surprise one-sided MLD. It also lets us play a little more conservatively at the end of an opponent's turn.
WUVenser's Journal: A little life gain never hurt, and it means we don't have to overextend if we don't want to.
And suddenly, just when I'm starting to think you can't create anything better than the concept behind your Tariel deck, you pull out this. Another awesome deck!
I was tempted to do something like this with red, because Fortune Thief, Mindclaw Shaman and company don't feels really red, and along with effect like Ruination andBlood Moon. Do you think it can work?
Mishra's Helix could really mess people up, you could tap their lands at their upkeep. Stunted Growth only hits one player, but it totally fits with the "stuff green isn't supposed to do" theme.
And suddenly, just when I'm starting to think you can't create anything better than the concept behind your Tariel deck, you pull out this. Another awesome deck!
I was tempted to do something like this with red, because Fortune Thief, Mindclaw Shaman and company don't feels really red, and along with effect like Ruination andBlood Moon. Do you think it can work?
Thanks! I went through a bunch of ideas before I settled on this one. Some of them made it to the play-testing stage. The three biggest reasons that I scrapped them is that they either weren't that fun for me to play, didn't have the potential to win as much as I'd like, or I couldn't find enough cards for them. Among them were:
1. A UG deck with Vorel of the Hull Clade which focused on creating "strange" game states. Stuff like Mana Maze, Teferi's Realm, Hall of Gemstone, etc. Pretty much all of the Green cards in the deck found their way over to this one because the themes overlapped. I just couldn't find a "strange" way to end the game reliably with that deck. Well, I don't have too many ways in this one yet either, but I'm more confident that this one can do it on theme.
5. A WUBRG deck with no general chosen which would essentially put itself on auto-pilot eventually and play itself. Stuff like Assemble the Legion, Grand Melee, Hellraiser Goblin, Omen Machine, Venser's Journal, Chronomantic Escape, Festering March, Wild Evocation, etc. The problem with this is that I play on MTGO primarily and WAY too many upkeep triggers, not all of which would be skippable (assuming that all players DID yield to the triggers since some would always want the chance to respond).
6. A WRG deck with no general chosen which would play things that got better with more opponents. I wasn't considering extort at the time, so it might have included Black as well. Stuff like Dragon Broodmother, Celestial Force, Verdant Force, Magmatic Force, etc. Couldn't find enough cards.
7. A WUB deck with no general chosen that would focus on giving the opponents choices such as Oracle en-Vec, Choice of Damnations, Evangelize, Fact or Fiction, etc. Then I remembered that giving opponents choices is usually REALLY bad. Still could be fun though.
The deck that I mentioned with Vela the Night-Clad never came to be because I felt that the core design was too flawed after playing with it. It was going to be a deck that had things like
Now, I've seen UBR "choice" decks before (Browbeat and maybe one or two others would have been the only Red cards I would have played) that just give your opponents different choices usually. However, this would have been a bit different. The idea was that the theme of this deck would be to play cards which a rational opponent would suffer the most from. The "correct" choice for all of those cards is for someone to take the fall, but a rational player should think that someone else should take the fall instead of them. The idea originally came about from some kind of reverse-warped take on the Tragedy of the Commons.
There were two major flaws though. The first is that many players are in fact wise enough to just take the fall. This also makes them look good and me look bad. The bigger flaw though is that this deck doesn't work for the same reason that the Tariel deck does: resources in EDH are abundant and "the commons" are never-ending. Maybe if this were a 20 life format where blockbuster spells aren't expected to be played every game this would work. But 4 life from Aether Storm is only 1/10 of your life in EDH compared to 1/5 in a normal game. The same thing applies to the number of expected cards that you would draw in a normal game versus a game of EDH. Three cards from Standstill isn't that bad in the scheme of things if the game lasts a long time. Hesitation is even worse for the same reason. Sure, the table might pass for one round, but then someone will play a mana rock and kill it. It just doesn't have enough punch to it. I thought of adding stax effects to make resources less abundant, but didn't want to go that route because I hate playing against stax. If anyone still has suggestions for making it work though, I'd like to hear them.
Some of them I might revisit eventually, but I like Dosan for now.
As for building a red version of the deck, most definitely. I can't think of many cards off of the top of my head unfortunately though. MAYBE some of the ones listed in the "All-in" deck above? Maybe not. Red bounce (Stingscourger?) and counterspells (there are a few, but they're all conditional) might be a good place to start though.
Mishra's Helix could really mess people up, you could tap their lands at their upkeep. Stunted Growth only hits one player, but it totally fits with the "stuff green isn't supposed to do" theme.
Thanks for all the suggestions! Let's see, one by one...
I hope to eventually tone down the number of artifacts in the deck if possible, so I'd like to keep Titania's Song for now. Plus, I think it's such a cool card and I've seen it wreck some other decks pretty hard before. Also, it does give me the option to turn my artifacts into beaters. If it keeps getting played but doesn't work out, I'll remove it though.
For now I think I'm okay with Asceticism protecting Dosan, but Lightning Greaves will remain waiting in the wings. I actually haven't had that much spot removal used on him yet.
Meekstone is more than I like to spend on a single card (on MTGO) right now, but it could be a possibility. Also not sure how much additional aggro it would draw to me.
I'm not sure that I have the resource advantage in this deck to control people effectively with Mishra's Helix right now. I think I would definitely include it if it were a 1 on 1 deck though.
Same thing for Stunted Growth as above. Looks a lot better in 1 on 1.
Like you said, City of Solitude prevents some of our own stuff from working because of the activated ability clause.
Elephant Grass seems like it's too much trouble to keep up for what it does. Although, now that I think about it, I wonder how funny a cumulative upkeep based deck with Omnath at the helm would be? I don't think I've seen one of those.
Even though it's six mana, Desert Twister is still unconditional removal. And since I'm playing Dosan, it being sorcery speed isn't as much of a penalty. Added.
Also, if you're looking for a fog that Dosan can use, Spore Frog is your frog. It'll lose the advantage of surprise, but serve as a rattlesnake for deterring large attacks against you.
Shame there aren't any good mono-green cards with cycling triggers, or good channel cards. Those could be used as pseudo-instants by Dosan.
Shame there aren't any good mono-green cards with cycling triggers, or good channel cards. Those could be used as pseudo-instants by Dosan.
Arashi, the Sky Asunder for anti-flying tech? Anti-flying is already something green does, unfortunately for the deck's theme, but it's basically the only 'good' channel card.
Also, if you're looking for a fog that Dosan can use, Spore Frog is your frog. It'll lose the advantage of surprise, but serve as a rattlesnake for deterring large attacks against you.
Shame there aren't any good mono-green cards with cycling triggers, or good channel cards. Those could be used as pseudo-instants by Dosan.
For the lands, I'd like to keep them basic if possible since they work well with Primal Order and Lost in the Woods.
I'd also want a way to prefer Spore Frog preferably. Would Dawnstrider work well you think?
Immediately went and looked for any good cycling and channel stuff after that and couldn't find anything either.
Arashi, the Sky Asunder for anti-flying tech? Anti-flying is already something green does, unfortunately for the deck's theme, but it's basically the only 'good' channel card.
Yeah, anti-flying is already in Green's realm. Speaking of which, I'll probably take out Raking Canopy eventually since that was more of a filler card. It does have interesting synergy with Predator, Flagship though even if you have to give them flying in advance of the attack.
I'm also looking for more win conditions like Primal Order that just kind of chip away at people over time if unanswered. Helix Pinnacle crossed my mind, but it's a little cheesy. Maybe I'll try it. I'd rather use something where "they lose" as opposed to "I win". There are effects like Iron Maiden as well I guess.
A week ago me and a friend were discussing how green in the old days of magic had so many different effects that wouldn't make sense for the current green part of the pie, and seeing this deck made my day!
As cool as some of your effects are, what is your game plan aside from plopping down funky effects? What's your method of winning games? An Eldrazi titan would fit in this deck, and I think it's okay to add some things that *are* green like Time of Need and such.
Good job for pursuing this type of deck! I'm anxious to see how it pans out in the future. Keep us posted!
Maybe Natural Balance to counter opposing ramp strategies? Goes fine with your basic Forests, too. Could be combined with Reap and Sow and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss if you want to keep the land destruction going...
A week ago me and a friend were discussing how green in the old days of magic had so many different effects that wouldn't make sense for the current green part of the pie, and seeing this deck made my day!
As cool as some of your effects are, what is your game plan aside from plopping down funky effects? What's your method of winning games? An Eldrazi titan would fit in this deck, and I think it's okay to add some things that *are* green like Time of Need and such.
Good job for pursuing this type of deck! I'm anxious to see how it pans out in the future. Keep us posted!
Thanks! Green back in the day was indeed...different. For winning the game, that's kind of still evolving although I'm liking the style of a gradual win as opposed to something splashy. Right now, win condition cards in the deck would probably be Primal Order, Iron Maiden (just added), Titania's Song (beatdown with artifacts), Cyclone (Stuffy Doll and Pariah's Shield can go with that), Blanchwood Armor (I have a real soft spot for this card), and Storm Seeker. It certainly needs more though. Time of Need is a really cool card, but I don't know what I'd fetch with it besides a tucked Dosan. I'm not a huge fan of the Edlrazi (except for maybe Eldraze Conscription?) and don't like seeing them cloned/bribery'd/reanimated/etc.
Maybe Natural Balance to counter opposing ramp strategies? Goes fine with your basic Forests, too. Could be combined with Reap and Sow and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss if you want to keep the land destruction going...
Wow, Natural Balance is great! Definitely added. Not sure that I want to use the other two land destruction cards but I'll keep them in mind. When I started looking for cards, I immediately went to look for all of the "timeshifted" ones, especially from Planar Chaos. Not sure how Harmonize slipped by. Defintely added that as well.
Played a game the other day where one guy conceded to Hall of Gemstone then another guy used Akroma's Vengeance and wiped my field. The remaining two guys were both in WUG at the least and had a pretty intense back and forth for about an hour while I just kinda sat there. Then one of them lost and I was able to Storm Seeker the remaining player for 11 (exactly lethal damage) for the win. Completely lucky, but hey.
Played another game where I came in second, but the deck is definitely doing what I want it to so far. Now it just needs some more wincons and tuning I think.
Essence Warden - Just didn't do a whole lot. Nova Pentacle - I'm trying to reduce the amount of artifacts and while cute, I often wished I had drawn other things. Sun Droplet - Another artifact and also trying to remove overlap with my Tariel deck. I'll probably take out Crawlspace and Forcefield eventually.
Had a REALLY fun game yesterday (didn't win though) that went on for quite some time. Got some really good feedback on the deck as well. Everyone seemed to like playing against it a lot which is something I like to hear about my decks. Anyway, some changes:
In Nature's Wrath, out Soul Conduit - I want to start getting rid of cards that are also in my Tariel deck unless it's ramp or card draw. While Nature's Wrath is color specific, I think it's strong enough to warrant play and there usually will be blue or black somewhere. I'm also trying to tone down the artifacts a bit if possible.
In Rampant Growth, out Forcefield - Didn't have enough early ramp (turn 1 or 2) and taking out another card from Tariel.
In Ritual of Subdual, out Asceticism - This card can be pretty brutal if it sticks. I'll eventually be putting in more things to support it (artifact destruction and my own mana rocks/nonland permanents that can produce green mana). As for Asceticism, I don't depend on creatures enough and it was often a dead card.
In Darksteel Ingot, out Crawlspace - Something that can help with Ritual of Subdual as well as being indestructible ramp. Crawlspace is another card from Tariel that was a placeholder.
In Nullmage Advocate, out Sprouting Phytohydra - Phytohydra was a placeholder that I thought was kinda nifty. Nullmage is repeatable artifact and enchantment destruction. I might eventually replace him with Glissa Sunseeker once I pick one up, but I'll try the Advocate out first. This will also help get rid of opposing mana rocks that can make Ritual of Subdual not as effective.
Still looking to grow the deck significantly, but it's been a blast to play so far.
Well, it seems like it may not be good enough, but I should suggest it anyways. Mirari, perhaps? You do have several seriously nasty instants and sorceries several of which kill.
Another repeatable fog creature would be spike weaver.
Well, it seems like it may not be good enough, but I should suggest it anyways. Mirari, perhaps? You do have several seriously nasty instants and sorceries several of which kill.
Another repeatable fog creature would be spike weaver.
I'll try out Mirari, but I was thinking about it today and it might actually be even better for my Tariel deck. I'll try out Spike Weaver as well. If I do run him, it might be worthwhile to run Genesis, so I'll look into that too.
Skull of orm? In a green deck? Oh, for shame!!!! You should be running something much more unexpected: dowsing shaman. He also has the added advantage of being quite recurrable in a color which likes to return creatures (admittedly, said color returns anything pretty handily). You do run a lot of situational cards. Maybe one that takes advantage of that in holistic wisdom?
Yeah, the enchantress package was just kinda put in there because I didn't know what else to run. It'll eventually fade out probably. As for Argothian Enchantress, I didn't want to spend $18 on an MTGO card I wasn't necessarily going to use. I've got no problem with LD in the deck (since I'm running Hall of Gemstone and Ritual of Subdual which both also mess with mana bases) but I'd probably prefer to run effects which hit all lands since I don't feel like I get as much value in the one for one LD trades. I'm fine with using staples in the deck, especially ones like Terastodon and Acidic Slime, but I want to fill out the deck a bit more first. However, I do have an aversion to creatures which if Rite of Replicationed or reanimated would be really bad for me, so there's that.
Skull of orm? In a green deck? Oh, for shame!!!! You should be running something much more unexpected: dowsing shaman. He also has the added advantage of being quite recurrable in a color which likes to return creatures (admittedly, said color returns anything pretty handily). You do run a lot of situational cards. Maybe one that takes advantage of that in holistic wisdom?
In Holistic Wisdom, out Skull of Orm - Since I do run some situational cards, it can make use of them late game. Also it can grab back more than enchantments unlike the skull.
In Goblin Cannon, out Waiting in the Weeds - Kinda stupid, but a possible win condition. More on theme than waiting in the weeds anyway. Also, I didn't see the funnier Rocket Launcher on MTGO.
In Hunting Wilds, out Scarwood Bandits - I really liked the bandits a lot but it just doesn't do much since everyone usually has so much mana.
Still trying to find some cards that can give it a little more "punch". Also, thinking about Gaea's Blessing or Primal Command to help against mill should the situation ever arise (and it does sometimes). I don't really want to use Eldrazi because I don't like being Bribery'd. Planar Portal is another card I'm toying with using. Nim Deathmantle is also something I'm considering. What might be some good cards to mill people with that aren't "build around me" type cards? More direct damage or even life loss is also good. I was considering Thought Prison but decided against it.
In Vedalken Orrery, out Forest - Okay, I know this might seem weird in a Dosan deck, but when he's on the field it's because I want him there. Usually to ensure no counterspells or shenanigans.
In Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, out Lost in the Woods - No...there's no relation to the card above at all...really though, I'm going to be totally giddy the first time I can do green MLD from out of nowhere in response to a wrath. The Yeva players have it easy. Lost in the Woods is cute but too unpredictable.
In Seedborn Muse, out Desert Twister - Seems like it could be pretty useful since there are a few nice activated abilities in the deck. Also, Desert Twister was too big and clunky even with Green's mana production.
In: Gaea's Blessing, out: Horizon Spellbomb - Since the deck can take a bit to win, I've sometimes run into issues with mill decks. This should help a little at least. Still testing, but it seems like it should work most of the time.
Overall, the deck still is very fun to play. Depending upon the table I end up at, people either comment favorably about some of the individual cards (Hall of Gemstone and Kudzu most often probably) or dislike them a lot (usually those same two cards).
Dosan of the Green Rainbow
Hello. Like many of you, whenever I tap out for Sudden Impact, I often find myself thinking, "Man, I wish I could do that with Forests!" Or how about the times when you're playing mono U control and someone scoops out of frustration? Love playing with White's life gain, but hate tapping a Plains? Then have I got the deck for you!
The basic idea of the deck is to play White, Blue, Black, and Red spells with Green using cards that for whatever reason break out of Green's traditional color pie. Green is usually known for RAMP, RAMP, RAMP, PLAY FATTY, MAKE FATTY BIGGER, SWING. And that's all good. The world needs Azusa, Lost but Seekings and Omnath, Locus of Manas (not really, but don't tell them that). Green also sometimes shares life gain with White, card draw with Blue, recursion with Black, and
hating Blueaggressive creatures with Red. We'll take advantage of that since it makes Green look less Green.Ultimately, what you end up getting is a more reactive control-ish deck. I know, I know, playing mono G control is hardly fair to the opponents, but you'll have to trust me that it's okay (I've actually seen a player concede to Hall of Gemstone though). Speaking of which, that's the kind of card I'm looking for with this deck. Stuff like:
Hall of Gemstone
Storm Seeker
Natural Balance
Cyclone
Freyalise's Winds
All of those have effects that Green typically doesn't get to enjoy. And they're relatively good. Not really looking to play Avoid Fate, Natural Selection, or Hornet Sting. I might pick up Beast Within, Mirri's Guile, and Sylvan Library eventually though. I don't have them so they're not in the list at the moment, but they might work as well. Tornado and Splintering Wind are iffy because I'm not sure the deck could use them very well. Using artifacts is okay to fill in some of the holes, but it kinda defeats the purpose of showing that Green can play hardball too.
Suggestions?
TLDR: Green cards that don't do Green things.
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
Creatures
1 Burnished Hart
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Genesis
1 Ifh-Bíff Efreet
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Magus of the Library
1 Nullmage Advocate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Spike Weaver
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Viseling
1 Willow Satyr
1 Yavimaya Elder
Enchantments
1 Arboria
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Cyclone
1 Freyalise's Winds
1 Hall of Gemstone
1 Holistic Wisdom
1 Lifegift
1 Mana Reflection
1 Nature's Wrath
1 Primal Order
1 Ritual of Subdual
1 Titania's Song
1 Viridian Revel
1 Blanchwood Armor
1 Kudzu
Instants
1 Constant Mists
1 Natural Affinity
1 Slice in Twain
1 Squall Line
1 Storm Seeker
Sorceries
1 Boundless Realms
1 Calming Verse
1 Cultivate
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Harmonize
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Hurricane
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Natural Balance
1 Nature's Lore
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Ranger's Path
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Caged Sun
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Iron Maiden
1 Mind's Eye
1 Seer's Sundial
1 Staff of Nin
1 Tower of Fortunes
1 Urza's Armor
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Venser's Journal
Equipment
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Pariah's Shield
Lands
38 Forest
Game 1 - Vs. Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Sharuum the Hegemon, and Heartless Hidetsugu can be found here.
Game 2 - Vs. Maelstrom Wanderer, Gahiji, Honored One, and Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts can be found here.
WUDosan the Falling Leaf: Dosan seemed like the natural choice to lead this deck. Looking around at all of the Green legends, most of them have something to do with either lands, mana, big creatures, or lots of creatures, so that narrowed down the choices pretty quickly. Perhaps the most important thing Dosan does is allow you to play without having to worry about counterspells or being interrupted by things not on the field. It can also mess with people who like to play during the turns of other players (I'm looking at you Prophet of Kruphix) or just players who like using some end of turn instant speed card draw. Since the deck is fairly controlling, Dosan adds yet another hoop for your opponents to jump through.
GBurnished Hart: Ramp on a small stick is helpful. I really prefer creatures who have more use to me dead than alive since creatures are the most likely type of permanent to die.
WGCaller of the Claw: Okay, so it's pretty much only in here right now as a combo piece with Natural Affinity, but I think it could have some other applications in the future. Also, bears.
BGenesis: Speaking of creatures more useful when dead, Genesis helps give the deck some much needed recursion. When combined with Spike Weaver, it can create a combat lock. When used with Krosan Tusker, it's a bit expensive, but basically draw a card and a land for 4GG every turn. It can also help re-reamp with things like Burnished Hart and Solemn Simulacrum.
BRIfh-Bíff Efreet: Do you have more life and at least four more mana than your opponents have life? Congratulations, you win! Mr. Biff is a card from way back who adds a bit of extra punch to the deck. Green isn't usually known for direct damage wins, but Biff delivers it in spades. Since you can retain priority when you use his ability, he doesn't mind that he dies in the process.
WRKamahl, Fist of Krosa: We're just going to pretend the second ability doesn't exist. What we're really interested in is the pay one mana to destroy target land in response to a Wrath of God. Yeah, it's mean. But this is only one of two situational Green MLD cards in the deck, and your opponents can't get that upset with that, right? Once again, another creature that works best when he's about to die.
UGKrosan Tusker: Drawing cards and fetching lands at instant speed without having to technically cast a spell? Sounds good. You probably won't ever actually cast him.
UGMagus of the Library: A little bit of ramp, a little bit of card draw. Either way, Magus will give you what you need. I probably average about three draws from him per game when I start with him in my opening hand which is pretty good for his two mana investment. If nothing else, he'll also help ramp.
WNullmage Advocate: Reusable artifact and enchantment destruction, a small body, and can be used to give your opponents back favorable cards.
WBScavenging Ooze: Eats graveyards, gains life, gets bigger. Against graveyard dependent or mill decks, he can be a house if not answered.
UGSolemn Simulacrum: Helps ramp a bit and replaces himself when he dies. He's run almost universally and for good reason.
WSpike Weaver: Every day is a Holy Day with Spike Weaver. This deck needs defense since it can draw a bit of hate sometimes and this card provides that defense. It's also reusable with Genesis.
BStuffy Doll: Stuffy can be an interesting road block to some decks. He also works really well with some of the mass direct damage cards in the deck such as Ifh-Bíff Efreet, Hurricane, or Squall Line. Of course, there's always Pariah's Shield as well.
BRViseling: What do we hate? People with more cards than us! What are we gonna do about it? Burn 'em! Viseling does run the risk of being copied or stolen, but for the most part he's a pretty effective little dude.
UWillow Satyr: People will think twice before landing their general. Unfortunately, he's very fragile. If he sticks, you can steal some stuff though.
UGYavimaya Elder: Yet another card that gets us lands and draw cards when it dies. A three for one that can be recurred with Genesis is nice.
WArboria: Many wincons in the deck involve sitting on your butt and doing nothing. Arboria will give you the much needed time to do all the nothing you want. Sit back, relax, grab a Fruit Roll-Up, and clicking that "OK" button.
GCarpet of Flowers: This will usually be a relevant card since someone is probably playing blue somewhere. It provides a little extra ramp, but it's also a good way to get around Freyalise's Winds and Ritual of Subdual.
BRCyclone: Automatically puts the game on a 9 turn clock while wiping creatures. Combined with Pariah's Shield on something with Darksteel Plate or Stuffy Doll, it doesn't affect you. It's very slow, but it'll wipe the board every turn for you, and you can always choose to end it.
WUFreyalise's Winds: This card will annoy some people because it makes the game twice as long basically. But I love long games, so that's fine. The slower the game goes, the better this deck usually does so extra time is always welcome. Plus, you'll have a large amount of lands from all of your ramping probably and it won't affect you quite as much. You can also think of it as saying "each creature can't attack if it attacked last turn", so not only does it mean that opponents won't be dumping their entire hands every turn, it also means that combat isn't as deadly for you. Definitely an all-star card in the deck. Also, the reason I don't use Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger is because I have a pet peeve about getting my stuff copied or stolen, especially if it ruins my stuff.
WHall of Gemstone: Another all-star in the deck. Play this on turn three and get ready to either rock the table for the rest of the game or suffer a swift defeat as everyone targets you. Played early, it shuts off access to many of your opponents playing their generals which can be a fatal blow depending upon the deck. As an added bonus, it means no counterspells during your turn since it makes the mana for everyone the chosen color. In a way, it's sort of like a second Dosan that always messes with multicolored decks. You can also still use stuff like Constant Mists before the trigger of Hall of Gemstone if you think you're going to be attacked. Also, no more Prophet of Kruphix or Aura Shards. You can still get around it with mana rocks though.
WBHolistic Wisdom: We do use a lot of situational cards in the deck. Thankfully, Holistic Wisdom makes good use of that by allowing you to ditch cards you don't need for ones that you do by bringing back ANY card in your graveyard as long as it shares a type with one in your hand. An extremely useful and underrated card as it's allowed me to pull off many wins that I wouldn't have gotten without it.
WLifegift: This card usually will gain me an average of 25+ per game if in my opening hand. Not bad for three mana. Since some of our wincons hurt us as well, it can be the tipping point sometimes.
GMana Reflection: Doubling up on your mana allows for massive Hurricanes and Freyalise's Winds won't hurt you as much. It also allows you to get more potential card advantage of course if you can use the mana to draw cards.
BNature's Wrath: This has ruined a Lazav, Dimir Mastermind's day when an opponent used Warp World. For the low cost of one green every turn, you can basically keep your Black and Blue opponents at parity. Shuts down things like Bitterblossom as well.
RPrimal Order: It's half of Price of Progress on every one of your turns. We don't run any lands that aren't basics and this will usually deal at least three or more damage per turn to opponents. It's best when played late in the game and everyone's already flooded their board with nonbasics. Against some five color decks, it can be lethal. Another wincon where we just want to sit and try to live while it does its thing.
WRitual of Subdual: Shuts down games and will make you lose your friends. You can use Carpet of Flowers and Darksteel Ingot to get around it. Most of the time it should be used after a board wipe or with Arboria while stuff like Iron Maiden and Primal Order do their thing.
UTitania's Song: This is a really fun card. It'll shut down a lot of opposing stax or prison decks. If you have out Spike Weaver or have Constant Mists in hand, it's not as big of a deal when your opponent's artifacts become creatures. It can mess with some of our card draw engines though so use it wisely. It's also a good answer to getting rid of mana rocks for a total lock with Ritual of Subdual or Hall of Gemstone.
UViridian Revel: I wasn't sure about this card at first, but it's shocking how much artifacts go to the graveyard. Drawing ten cards off of this per game isn't unusual if it comes out early which is quite nice for a three mana investment.
GBlanchwood Armor: I might eventually replace this card or I might not. It's one of the cards I loved when I first got into Magic more than ten years ago. Also, I always think of Roshi when I put this on Dosan and swing for lethal.
WRKudzu: Certainly a sleeper. Surprisingly this card usually doesn't come back to you all that often since you'll have all Forests and you'll have a lot of them. It also doesn't get removed as much as you'd think but can still cause fits for some players.
WConstant Mists: We'll usually have a lot of lands, so this card can hold off attacks for quite a bit. Of course, Dosan has to not be present.
WRNatural Affinity: Ideally, this would be played when I have a bunch of stuff out like Primal Order or Iron Maiden and someone wraths the board. Following it up with Caller of the Claw is a potential wincon. It can also be used to create a table of attackers or blockers.
UGSlice in Twain: A little bit of card draw and a little bit of enchantment and artifact destruction.
RSquall Line: At instant speed, Squall Line is always the option of last resort. It can tie games as well if you'd lose otherwise.
RStorm Seeker: Since it's basically Sudden Impact but in Green, it fits right into the deck. With Dosan out, those Blue mages won't be able to stop it with their pesky counterspells.
GBoundless Realms: Doubles your mana base. More importantly, it thins out the deck drastically.
WCalming Verse: Dosan doesn't really mind playing things on our turn or tapping out. Tranquil Grove is an alternative, but it draws more hate possibly and hits our own stuff which we really need.
GCultivate: Ensures that you make it to five mana successfully.
GExplosive Vegetation: Ensures that you make it to six mana successfully.
UGaea's Blessing: Mill is actually sort of a problem for this deck since it relies on long games and that's when mill gets dangerous. It also replaces itself if you draw it.
UHarmonize: It's basically Concentrate. And a three for one is never bad.
GHunting Wilds: A slightly better Explosive Vegetation in that it gives you an option to make some creatures. Not that we'd really use it though.
RHurricane: A slower Squall Line that costs one less. Potential wincon if you're ahead in life.
GKodama's Reach: A second Cultivate.
WRNatural Balance: Believe it or not, this card can be really useful. It's situational MLD that punishes other people ramping ahead of you. It can also be used late game to set the playing field back to even if you have a better board position than your opponents and you don't want them to have access to a lot of mana.
GNature's Lore: Ensures that you make it to three mana successfully.
UBPraetor's Counsel: Allows you to reuse ramp spells, wincons, etc. Depending upon the stuff in your yard, it can be a game changer.
GRanger's Path: A second Explosive Vegetation.
GSkyshroud Claim: A slightly better Explosive Vegetation since it puts them into play untapped.
GCaged Sun: The power/toughness boost doesn't mean much, but doubling our mana is good.
GDarksteel Ingot: An indestructible mana rock that can also help us get around Ritual of Subdual.
BRIron Maiden: A Viseling that isn't vulnerable to creature destruction.
UMind's Eye: Probably one of the best draw engines in the format.
UGSeer's Sundial: We'll be playing a lot of lands and this makes them not dead draws.
URStaff of Nin: An extra card a turn plus the ability to ping.
UTower of Fortunes: Since we'll have a lot of mana usually, this will keep our hand full.
WUrza's Armor: A little bit of defense. It combos well with Ifh-Bíff Efreet, stops Nekusar, the Mindrazer in his tracks, and fights off small token armies.
UVedalken Orrery: Allows us to flash in Kamahl, Fist of Krosa for surprise one-sided MLD. It also lets us play a little more conservatively at the end of an opponent's turn.
WUVenser's Journal: A little life gain never hurt, and it means we don't have to overextend if we don't want to.
WDarksteel Plate: Best when put on Dosan or Ifh-Bíff Efreet. It can also make the fragile Willow Satyr a little more sturdy.
WPariah's Shield: Obviously goes well with Stuffy Doll, but it can also be put on any creature with Darksteel Plate so you don't have to worry about damage.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
I was tempted to do something like this with red, because Fortune Thief, Mindclaw Shaman and company don't feels really red, and along with effect like Ruination andBlood Moon. Do you think it can work?
I don't know about Titania's Song, I think you are running too many artifacts with great abilities for that card to be really effective.
Lightning Greaves to protect Dosan? Meekstone? Stuffy Doll?
Mishra's Helix could really mess people up, you could tap their lands at their upkeep. Stunted Growth only hits one player, but it totally fits with the "stuff green isn't supposed to do" theme.
City of Solitude also prevents players from activating abilities unless it's their turn, but it contradicts some of our stuff. Elephant Grass is basically Ghostly Prison.
Desert Twister is removal. You should have some spot removal, and like you already mentioned... Beast Within.
Praetor's Counsel, Constant Mists, and Venser's Journal for utility.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Thanks! I went through a bunch of ideas before I settled on this one. Some of them made it to the play-testing stage. The three biggest reasons that I scrapped them is that they either weren't that fun for me to play, didn't have the potential to win as much as I'd like, or I couldn't find enough cards for them. Among them were:
1. A UG deck with Vorel of the Hull Clade which focused on creating "strange" game states. Stuff like Mana Maze, Teferi's Realm, Hall of Gemstone, etc. Pretty much all of the Green cards in the deck found their way over to this one because the themes overlapped. I just couldn't find a "strange" way to end the game reliably with that deck. Well, I don't have too many ways in this one yet either, but I'm more confident that this one can do it on theme.
2. A RG deck with no general yet which focused on forcing everyone to "go all in" and overextend with stuff like Antagonism, Citadel of Pain, Elkin Lair, Predatory Advantage, Impatience, War's Toll, Iron Maiden, Mana Web, etc. I couldn't come up with enough good cards for this.
3. A BR deck with Rakdos the Defiler affectionately named "Super Suicide". Stuff like Hellcarver Demon, Hellfire, Greed, Hatred, Reckless Assault, Minion of the Wastes, Phyrexian Processor, Phyrexian Purge, etc. I'm...not sure what I was thinking with this one's ability to win. Might still be fun though.
4. A UBR with no general chosen yet that would be an "interactive combo" deck. It would only win by comboing out with the cards of opponents. Chancellor of the Spires combos out with an opponent's Rite of Replication for instance. Or Geth, Lord of the Vault combos out with an opponent's Mindslaver (only against one opponent). Or Zealous Conscripts still combos out with an opponent's Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.
5. A WUBRG deck with no general chosen which would essentially put itself on auto-pilot eventually and play itself. Stuff like Assemble the Legion, Grand Melee, Hellraiser Goblin, Omen Machine, Venser's Journal, Chronomantic Escape, Festering March, Wild Evocation, etc. The problem with this is that I play on MTGO primarily and WAY too many upkeep triggers, not all of which would be skippable (assuming that all players DID yield to the triggers since some would always want the chance to respond).
6. A WRG deck with no general chosen which would play things that got better with more opponents. I wasn't considering extort at the time, so it might have included Black as well. Stuff like Dragon Broodmother, Celestial Force, Verdant Force, Magmatic Force, etc. Couldn't find enough cards.
7. A WUB deck with no general chosen that would focus on giving the opponents choices such as Oracle en-Vec, Choice of Damnations, Evangelize, Fact or Fiction, etc. Then I remembered that giving opponents choices is usually REALLY bad. Still could be fun though.
8. A "funny" deck. Got as far as Clergy en-Vec and Uktabi Orangutan.
9. A deck that would make in-game alliances more probable. Didn't get too far.
10. And this deck:
Some of them I might revisit eventually, but I like Dosan for now.
As for building a red version of the deck, most definitely. I can't think of many cards off of the top of my head unfortunately though. MAYBE some of the ones listed in the "All-in" deck above? Maybe not. Red bounce (Stingscourger?) and counterspells (there are a few, but they're all conditional) might be a good place to start though.
Thanks for all the suggestions! Let's see, one by one...
I hope to eventually tone down the number of artifacts in the deck if possible, so I'd like to keep Titania's Song for now. Plus, I think it's such a cool card and I've seen it wreck some other decks pretty hard before. Also, it does give me the option to turn my artifacts into beaters. If it keeps getting played but doesn't work out, I'll remove it though.
For now I think I'm okay with Asceticism protecting Dosan, but Lightning Greaves will remain waiting in the wings. I actually haven't had that much spot removal used on him yet.
Meekstone is more than I like to spend on a single card (on MTGO) right now, but it could be a possibility. Also not sure how much additional aggro it would draw to me.
I've already got Pariah's Shield in there, so sure, why not throw Stuffy Doll in as well? Added.
I'm not sure that I have the resource advantage in this deck to control people effectively with Mishra's Helix right now. I think I would definitely include it if it were a 1 on 1 deck though.
Same thing for Stunted Growth as above. Looks a lot better in 1 on 1.
Like you said, City of Solitude prevents some of our own stuff from working because of the activated ability clause.
Elephant Grass seems like it's too much trouble to keep up for what it does. Although, now that I think about it, I wonder how funny a cumulative upkeep based deck with Omnath at the helm would be? I don't think I've seen one of those.
Even though it's six mana, Desert Twister is still unconditional removal. And since I'm playing Dosan, it being sorcery speed isn't as much of a penalty. Added.
Can't believe I missed Praetor's Counsel. Definitely added.
I would really love to add Constant Mists, but I'm afraid that it won't be as useful with Dosan out.
While Venser's Journal is another artifact, I think it's still good enough to take a spot. Added.
I also added Slice in Twain.
I mainly removed filler cards like Elvish Visionary for them.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Maze of Ith/Mystifying Maze, Rishadan Port, and so on.
Also, if you're looking for a fog that Dosan can use, Spore Frog is your frog. It'll lose the advantage of surprise, but serve as a rattlesnake for deterring large attacks against you.
Shame there aren't any good mono-green cards with cycling triggers, or good channel cards. Those could be used as pseudo-instants by Dosan.
Arashi, the Sky Asunder for anti-flying tech? Anti-flying is already something green does, unfortunately for the deck's theme, but it's basically the only 'good' channel card.
For the lands, I'd like to keep them basic if possible since they work well with Primal Order and Lost in the Woods.
I'd also want a way to prefer Spore Frog preferably. Would Dawnstrider work well you think?
Immediately went and looked for any good cycling and channel stuff after that and couldn't find anything either.
Yeah, anti-flying is already in Green's realm. Speaking of which, I'll probably take out Raking Canopy eventually since that was more of a filler card. It does have interesting synergy with Predator, Flagship though even if you have to give them flying in advance of the attack.
I'm also looking for more win conditions like Primal Order that just kind of chip away at people over time if unanswered. Helix Pinnacle crossed my mind, but it's a little cheesy. Maybe I'll try it. I'd rather use something where "they lose" as opposed to "I win". There are effects like Iron Maiden as well I guess.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
A week ago me and a friend were discussing how green in the old days of magic had so many different effects that wouldn't make sense for the current green part of the pie, and seeing this deck made my day!
As cool as some of your effects are, what is your game plan aside from plopping down funky effects? What's your method of winning games? An Eldrazi titan would fit in this deck, and I think it's okay to add some things that *are* green like Time of Need and such.
Good job for pursuing this type of deck! I'm anxious to see how it pans out in the future. Keep us posted!
Maybe Natural Balance to counter opposing ramp strategies? Goes fine with your basic Forests, too. Could be combined with Reap and Sow and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss if you want to keep the land destruction going...
Thanks! Green back in the day was indeed...different. For winning the game, that's kind of still evolving although I'm liking the style of a gradual win as opposed to something splashy. Right now, win condition cards in the deck would probably be Primal Order, Iron Maiden (just added), Titania's Song (beatdown with artifacts), Cyclone (Stuffy Doll and Pariah's Shield can go with that), Blanchwood Armor (I have a real soft spot for this card), and Storm Seeker. It certainly needs more though. Time of Need is a really cool card, but I don't know what I'd fetch with it besides a tucked Dosan. I'm not a huge fan of the Edlrazi (except for maybe Eldraze Conscription?) and don't like seeing them cloned/bribery'd/reanimated/etc.
Wow, Natural Balance is great! Definitely added. Not sure that I want to use the other two land destruction cards but I'll keep them in mind. When I started looking for cards, I immediately went to look for all of the "timeshifted" ones, especially from Planar Chaos. Not sure how Harmonize slipped by. Defintely added that as well.
I took out Caltrops, Raking Canopy, and Lifeforce (too situational) and added Harmonize, Natural Balance, and Iron Maiden.
Played a game the other day where one guy conceded to Hall of Gemstone then another guy used Akroma's Vengeance and wiped my field. The remaining two guys were both in WUG at the least and had a pretty intense back and forth for about an hour while I just kinda sat there. Then one of them lost and I was able to Storm Seeker the remaining player for 11 (exactly lethal damage) for the win. Completely lucky, but hey.
Played another game where I came in second, but the deck is definitely doing what I want it to so far. Now it just needs some more wincons and tuning I think.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Added:
Arboria - LOVE this card
Hurricane - Green direct damage
Night Soil - Graveyard removal
Scarwood Bandits - Artifact stealing...maybe?
Squall Line - Green direct damage
Waiting in the Weeds - Possible wincon
Willow Satyr - General stealing
Removed:
Jayemdae Tome
Echo Chamber
Predator, Flagship
Carnage Altar
Centaur Glade
Lignify
Drop of Honey - I really like this one but I realized that most of the time it would be hitting one of my guys.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Added:
Ifh-Biff Efreet
Urza's Armor
Viseling
Removed:
Thunderstaff
Synod Sanctum
Phyrexian Grimoire
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Added:
Constant Mists - I've come to realize Dosan won't be out ALL the time.
Ranger's Path - A second Explosive Vegetation.
Caged Sun - More mana accel for the Hurricanes and Squall Lines.
Removed:
Essence Warden - Just didn't do a whole lot.
Nova Pentacle - I'm trying to reduce the amount of artifacts and while cute, I often wished I had drawn other things.
Sun Droplet - Another artifact and also trying to remove overlap with my Tariel deck. I'll probably take out Crawlspace and Forcefield eventually.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
In Nature's Wrath, out Soul Conduit - I want to start getting rid of cards that are also in my Tariel deck unless it's ramp or card draw. While Nature's Wrath is color specific, I think it's strong enough to warrant play and there usually will be blue or black somewhere. I'm also trying to tone down the artifacts a bit if possible.
In Rampant Growth, out Forcefield - Didn't have enough early ramp (turn 1 or 2) and taking out another card from Tariel.
In Ritual of Subdual, out Asceticism - This card can be pretty brutal if it sticks. I'll eventually be putting in more things to support it (artifact destruction and my own mana rocks/nonland permanents that can produce green mana). As for Asceticism, I don't depend on creatures enough and it was often a dead card.
In Darksteel Ingot, out Crawlspace - Something that can help with Ritual of Subdual as well as being indestructible ramp. Crawlspace is another card from Tariel that was a placeholder.
In Nullmage Advocate, out Sprouting Phytohydra - Phytohydra was a placeholder that I thought was kinda nifty. Nullmage is repeatable artifact and enchantment destruction. I might eventually replace him with Glissa Sunseeker once I pick one up, but I'll try the Advocate out first. This will also help get rid of opposing mana rocks that can make Ritual of Subdual not as effective.
Still looking to grow the deck significantly, but it's been a blast to play so far.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Another repeatable fog creature would be spike weaver.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I'll try out Mirari, but I was thinking about it today and it might actually be even better for my Tariel deck. I'll try out Spike Weaver as well. If I do run him, it might be worthwhile to run Genesis, so I'll look into that too.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
I'd also love to see more LD in this deck. Ice Storm, Thermokarst, Wasteland, Strip Mine, Plow Under, Creeping Mold, Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, Feast of Worms, Winter's Grasp, etc. I understand if you don't want to play with a green staple like Acidic Slime, but if you're playing mono-green control then targeted LD is a pretty fun addition
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Yeah, the enchantress package was just kinda put in there because I didn't know what else to run. It'll eventually fade out probably. As for Argothian Enchantress, I didn't want to spend $18 on an MTGO card I wasn't necessarily going to use. I've got no problem with LD in the deck (since I'm running Hall of Gemstone and Ritual of Subdual which both also mess with mana bases) but I'd probably prefer to run effects which hit all lands since I don't feel like I get as much value in the one for one LD trades. I'm fine with using staples in the deck, especially ones like Terastodon and Acidic Slime, but I want to fill out the deck a bit more first. However, I do have an aversion to creatures which if Rite of Replicationed or reanimated would be really bad for me, so there's that.
Very good call. I'll make the change in a bit when I buy another batch of cards.
If I run Genesis then I'll probably put in Dowsing Shaman. Holistic Wisdom seems like a fun card for the deck. Besides for pitching stuff like Nature's Wrath, it also turns a late game Rampant Growth into Hurricane possibly. I'll test it out.
Also, trying to find more cards that win the game without the combat step or a clause that says "You win the game if X".
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
In Holistic Wisdom, out Skull of Orm - Since I do run some situational cards, it can make use of them late game. Also it can grab back more than enchantments unlike the skull.
In Mana Reflection, out Verduran Enchantress - Needed another mana doubler. Phasing out the enchantress package.
In Goblin Cannon, out Waiting in the Weeds - Kinda stupid, but a possible win condition. More on theme than waiting in the weeds anyway. Also, I didn't see the funnier Rocket Launcher on MTGO.
In Nature's Lore, out Rampant Growth - Strictly better upgrade.
In Skyshroud Claim, out Seek the Horizon - I'd rather have two on the field than three in hand.
In Scavenging Ooze, out Night Soil - It can hit other things besides creatures and can gain a little life itself.
In Genesis, out Enchantress's Presence - Having the ability to recur my creatures is good I think.
In Spike Weaver, out Briar Patch - Much more effective and possibly recurring deterrent.
In Hunting Wilds, out Scarwood Bandits - I really liked the bandits a lot but it just doesn't do much since everyone usually has so much mana.
Still trying to find some cards that can give it a little more "punch". Also, thinking about Gaea's Blessing or Primal Command to help against mill should the situation ever arise (and it does sometimes). I don't really want to use Eldrazi because I don't like being Bribery'd. Planar Portal is another card I'm toying with using. Nim Deathmantle is also something I'm considering. What might be some good cards to mill people with that aren't "build around me" type cards? More direct damage or even life loss is also good. I was considering Thought Prison but decided against it.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
In Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, out Lost in the Woods - No...there's no relation to the card above at all...really though, I'm going to be totally giddy the first time I can do green MLD from out of nowhere in response to a wrath. The Yeva players have it easy. Lost in the Woods is cute but too unpredictable.
In Seedborn Muse, out Desert Twister - Seems like it could be pretty useful since there are a few nice activated abilities in the deck. Also, Desert Twister was too big and clunky even with Green's mana production.
The deck is shaping up how I want it to I think. I'm getting some kills with stuff like Storm Seeker, Primal Order, Ifh-Biff Efreet, and Cyclone while hiding behind Hall of Gemstone, Constant Mists, Arboria, and Freyalise's Winds. Kudzu is always more powerful than anticipated. Still tinkering though.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
In: Viridian Revel, out: Armillary Sphere. After some playtesting, I was not disappointed with this card at all.
Probably will find room for something like Oblivion Stone eventually. Maybe.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
In: Carpet of Flowers, out: Goblin Cannon - Cannon is just too clunky a lot of the time. Carpet really helps when I have out something like Freyalise's Winds or Ritual of Subdual.
In: Gaea's Blessing, out: Horizon Spellbomb - Since the deck can take a bit to win, I've sometimes run into issues with mill decks. This should help a little at least. Still testing, but it seems like it should work most of the time.
Overall, the deck still is very fun to play. Depending upon the table I end up at, people either comment favorably about some of the individual cards (Hall of Gemstone and Kudzu most often probably) or dislike them a lot (usually those same two cards).
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU