I have a very similar deck --- and would like some advice.
How are you using Static Orb and Stasis? I can't seem to wrap my head around these. I get that with Stasis, you can have a couple creatures out to swing and untap the Blue that is required to keep it in play, but I feel like that's all you get out of it. Are you simply locking everything down, and only swinging with a couple of creatures each turn until you kill off your oppenents? (If so, that's fine, I just want to be sure that it's supposed to work that way )
Static orb, how and when do you tap/untap this? Do you just keep it untapped the whole time?
Thanks!
Stasis/Winter Orb/Static Orb/Hokori are delaying mechanisms to buy us time to assemble our combo pieces. There are a couple ways we can make them one-sided. Stasis with Heliod, Derevi, and a few critters in play. Prophet of Kruphix with one of the other 3. I do not play these pieces unless I think I can benefit the most from one.
I don't run enough sac outlets to tap down Static Orb at the end of my last opponent's turn. I leave the orbs untapped usually. Edit: It is possible to tap down Static Orb with Derevi if we have Deadeye in play
Black_Miasma: I've run Lark combo with Mirror Entity in Rafiq and never liked seeing any of those pieces in an opening hand. The short answer is I think the combo is inferior and there isn't enough space for both. Khamal is a fairly important part of my Deadeye combo. Fierce Empath into Deadeye with Bloom Tender turns into Elesh Norn and Kamahl. Lands go away. Concessions roll in shortly. Only 2 pieces are needed: Fierce Empath and Bloom Tender. It's much more compact and the pieces are more versatile. Assembling Mirror Entity, Karmic Guide, and Reveillark is quite difficult. If Deadeye is exiled plan B is the beatdown approach using our friends Stasis/Hokori/Winter Orb/Static Orb.
I'm dumbfounded that you think a 5-card combo is an improvement on a 4-card combo. You don't need infinite mana for what you're doing. You can turn the whole thing into a one-card combo with Tooth and Nail or Defense of the Heart. You can even do the same thing more easily with Linvala + Living Plane.
It seems like you don't want to win, you want to win BY ________. Like you want to be flashy, but you don't care if it actually works well or often.
You may disagree with my evaluation of Lark combo but I have given you my reasons as to why I don't like it. The pieces are so hard to assemble you basically must have Survival in play to get to them. You won't see those combo pieces together unless you hit an enchantment tutor. In addition to the combo pieces themselves, thats a lot of slots. My list doesn't have many available. Nor do we have access to a good enchantment/artifact toolbox. In contrast pieces like Elesh Norn are fantastic, Kamahl a notch less but still a decent deterrent to a board wipe, pump option, and infinite mana outlet. These pieces have more utility and board presence. And our creature tutors will get us to Bloom Tender and Fierce Empath consistently. Both of which I might add, are fantastic cards on their own. That's what makes it the optimal choice for Derevi combo. Tooth and Nail is a 9cc spell, not even we can assemble that much mana consistently turns 3-5, and it is completely unnecessary
This isn't about Reveillark. This is about starting from the presumption that you need to make infinite mana via a 3-card combo. Then you're going to add two more cards to actually kill once you have infinite mana.
You also have some bizarre beliefs about Derevi: This is far from the best ramp deck available. Wanderer/Prossh/Marath can all routinely make 9 mana by turn 5, with turn 3 being rare and turn 4 being average. Derevi is the equivalent of running Sword of Feast and Famine as a general. He untaps lands: you get to tap out twice each turn.
Also, you didn't give "reasons" vis-a-vis Reveillark:
I've run Lark combo with Mirror Entity in Rafiq and never liked seeing any of those pieces in an opening hand.
In a different deck with a different general, you didn't "like" seeing things in an opening hand even though you could easily partial Paris them away.
I know better than to argue with a subjective knower, but if you're going to treat your feelings like facts I can at least do the community the favor of labeling you as such.
You're ignoring context and over-generalizing experience.
You've pretty much fallen in love with an inferior combo. I didn't discard Lark combo because it worked wonderfully. My experience indicated it was slow and too difficult to assemble.
I try to build my decks to have numerous favorable 2-3 card interactions. I'm not in favor of relying on any particular combo.
Experience is fundamentally wedded to its context. Even the Time Vault-Voltaic Key combo is awful in a Vintage deck with 4x Null Rod and 4x Stony Silence.
Said more formally: optimization processes seek minima in some cost function. Some of these minima are local, one is global. Drop a bowling ball from a plane over a random patch of the Earth, and odds are in doesn't find its way into the Mariana Trench. I'm accusing you of having found one of these local minima: that your deck is optimized for a particular approach, but that that approach is not as powerful as others. Because you haven't tried the others and you have no recourse to more general theory, your experience is valid but not particularly useful.
You can jam twenty combos into a deck but it never makes any of the individual combos more consistent... This list has a plan and it executes it to a T. It gets there pretty consistently. The fat has been trimmed down to a tiny sliver. If you have additional ideas on how to improve its efficiency or lethality I'd be glad to hear them but the Lark combo isn't going in. Graveyard recursion is very low on my list of priorities.
The reason I understand swift is because he has stated his meta is very combo heavy. If you don't have to deal with certain things it makes options less viable. Where I play with a token blitz marath deck, Zur combo aimed at my head first and a mix of harsh controlling decks, swift does not.
Swifts deck is focused on 2 things, Locking out and Deadeye combo.
And doing those 2 things as effectively as possible with the most consistency.
It really comes to meta choices and what people play with regularly.
I try to build my decks to have numerous favorable 2-3 card interactions. I'm not in favor of relying on any particular combo.
....
Said more formally: optimization processes seek minima in some cost function. Some of these minima are local, one is global. Drop a bowling ball from a plane over a random patch of the Earth, and odds are in doesn't find its way into the Mariana Trench. I'm accusing you of having found one of these local minima: that your deck is optimized for a particular approach, but that that approach is not as powerful as others. Because you haven't tried the others and you have no recourse to more general theory, your experience is valid but not particularly useful.
Building in numerous 2-3 combos does not optimize your deck. If that was the case, then every single Melira-Pod deck in Modern would have Melira and Archangel/Feeder combo.
Let's say you put two separate two card combos in your deck just because you want an extra "OOPS! I win!" factor.
Card A (Melira+Seer) and B (Finks/Redcap) is an instant combo
Card C (Archangel) and D (Feeder) is an instant combo
But unless A also combos with C or D, you don't really get an extra "OOPS! I win!" factor at all.
I could see the case for it if it was something like
Card A (Exarch) and card B (Splinter Twin)
Card C (Restoration) and card D (Kiki-Jikki)
Every card in both combos interact favorably with each other, because Kiki is just added redundancy for Twin. What else is strong about the Twin+Exarch and Kiki+Angel is that they actually cover for each other where they are weak. Abrupt Decay stops the Exarch part of the combo, Kiki+Angel covers that. Kiki is bad vs Lightning Bolt, but Twin+Exarch has that covered.
Putting Lark in just doesn't match that level of synergy to make it worth it.
Swift keeping lark/karmic/mirror out of his build and focusing on Deadeye + lockdown is the same thing as Pod keeping out Archangel/Feeder and focusing just on Melira + Gavony Township.
Reveillark alone is worth running, whether you combo or not.
I don't think so. If you're going to run a card just because they "alone are worth running," play a goodstuff.dec and call it a day. Notice how swift is also omitting the obviously good Sakura-Tribe Elder also. At the end of the day, if you want to run the best list, you have to leave out a lot of Top 100 EDH cards.
Reveillark/Karmic Guide are value but you don't always want value (and they aren't always value). What if your graveyard is empty, then Lark/Guide just get stuck in your hand. A 5cc 4/3 or 2/2 just doesn't cut it.
Building in numerous 2-3 combos does not optimize your deck. If that was the case, then every single Melira-Pod deck in Modern would have Melira and Archangel/Feeder combo.
The shortest answer is that highlander is different from a 4x format like Modern. The closest correlate would probably be Vintage combo decks where the combo decks do tend to run multiple paths to victory due to the restriction of most combo pieces.
With all of the tutoring and redundancy that swift is playing (plus the fact that you have access to your general each and every game), the deck plays out consistently enough the same way a 4x format deck would.
But if going to say EDH isn't like Modern, then you definitely shouldn't say EDH is like Vintage. Just because there are a lot of one-of's doesn't make them similar.
Your example is missing a lot of context.
1. The power level of Time Vault + Voltaic Key in Vintage is much stronger than Lark combo is in EDH. It does the whole "OOPS! I win" much easier and faster. It's worth running "just because," but Reveillark isn't.
2. Most vintage decks play 5 moxen, so playing Tinker is just part of optimizing your deck. Tinker actually interacts with your whole deck and what it wants to do (Vault, Jar, Blightsteel) and Reveillark doesn't. Reveillark isn't helping swift lock opponents down and doesn't combo with Derevi.
3. There is also a great counter-example in your example. Not every single Vintage deck that plays Tinker also plays a giant robot (Blightsteel, Inkwell, etc). So are you going to say that every deck not playing a giant robot should?
You should look at the merit of why a deck runs multiple win-cons. Multiple win-cons doesn't mean winning more
1. It's relatively rare to see Vault-Key in Vintage these days. It's not actually very good.
2. Tinker is also relatively rare and almost never seen in decks without Blightsteel. Occasionally it crops up in Burning Oath with Memory Jar as a draw7 substitute or to grab Lotus to feed Yawgmoth's Will.
3. Every deck that plays Tinker plays 2+ other win-cons.
Multiple win-cons doesn't mean winning more.
Good luck finding an example of a Vintage/Modern/Legacy deck that only runs one win-con and still performs. Even Modern storm combo runs 2x Grapeshot. The only example I'm aware of is Legacy Wish-less ANT and they scoop to Gaddock Teeg in game 1. I'm also hard pressed to find a winning list from the last few months.
Stroke of Genius has been testing well. So well I'm thinking Blue Sun's Zenith and Sphinx's Revelation deserve a closer look. Lotus Vale and Nykthos have been sort of mediocre. I'll keep them in a while longer for further testing but they tend to limit my options in opening hands rather than open them up. Another card I've been trying to work in is Linvala. She can shutdown creature based mana production. Elesh Norn sometimes comes online too late. One of our primary goals is disruption. The Orbs/Hokori can shut down lands, Elesh Norn and Linvala do a great job shutting down creatures. That leaves artifacts/enchantments, which I normally use Bane of Progress to take care of but would like another option, preferably creature based. I'll have to think about it
You do have access to Shattering Spree to pick up all artifacts and enchantments and buffer your life a little. Then there is Austere Command which gives you a little bit of utility. The problem with these 2 are that neither can be played while Gaddock is out.
You could run something like Aura Shards to beat the artifacts or enchantments.
I do agree on the removal/disruption being creature based. Outside of Bane there doesn't seem to be any creatures that hit multiple of each card type, unfortunately.
You do have access to Shattering Spree to pick up all artifacts and enchantments and buffer your life a little. Then there is Austere Command which gives you a little bit of utility. The problem with these 2 are that neither can be played while Gaddock is out.
You could run something like Aura Shards to beat the artifacts or enchantments.
I do agree on the removal/disruption being creature based. Outside of Bane there doesn't seem to be any creatures that hit multiple of each card type, unfortunately.
You must mean Fracturing Gust? Or is there something else that does that? Life isn't usually a factor but the instant speed removal is very handy. Of the options I was looking through it appears to be the best one. Aura Shards probably number two. Really sad they are not creatures. Gaddock Teeg does limit some of our options occasionally, but he is so good at stopping really bad things from happening that I do not see myself taking him out. Zur cannot win while Teeg is in play. And a lot of the splashy plays my friends love to run: Tooth and Nail, Bribery, Sneak Attack, Living Death, Cataclysm, etc cannot get around the little guy. The assortment of Teeg, Aven Mindcensor, Grand Arbiter, and Elesh Norn is pretty good at annoying our opponents. I'm going to cut Nykthos and something else, replacing them with a basic land and Linvala. We almost never have enough blue devotion to go infinite with Nykthos. Deadeye + Derevi is just 3. Lotus Vale works better
Yes! I mean meant Fracturing Gust. And I think I edited it to say Shattering Spree.
I wasn't recommending removing Teen, he is far too good, I was remarking that it was unfortunate that the 2 best runner-ups to Bane were 4+ non-creature spells.
Have you considered running Crop Rotation? It would let you find Lotus Vale the turn you wish to go infinite. Or Tolaria West? They each feel a little weak to me but, seeing as they tutor for ample of the infinite combo I thought I would suggest Them.
You're right Tolaria West and Crop Rotation are on the weaker side. Of the two Crop Rotation is probably stronger. Being able to get to Cradle and Lotus Vale is desirable but not always critical. If there was a land toolbox I'd likely put in Crop Rotation. But we don't have that. For land tutors my preferred options are Weathered Wayfarer and Wargate because they have more versatility. Knight of the Reliquary is a tad slower. With a stronger land toolbox I'd definately play it.
I'm curious if you've tried sleeving up someone else's build rather than testing single card changes?
I have, in Maelstrom Wanderer its awesome, in Derevi its a train wreck from hell.
Its kinda funny but the only Derevi build that works in my meta has about 10 wipes in it, I wipe, flash in Derevi, and attack 2-3 turns, rinse, repeat. Orbs meet with instant removal or counter magic, equipment is a total loss of tempo because it is destroyed within a turn or so.
Agreed, if you have to change that many cards a list will play like a whole new deck. But it doesn't change my position that Lark combo is slow and hard to assemble.
Its kinda funny but the only Derevi build that works in my meta has about 10 wipes in it, I wipe, flash in Derevi, and attack 2-3 turns, rinse, repeat. Orbs meet with instant removal or counter magic, equipment is a total loss of tempo because it is destroyed within a turn or so.
Its kinda funny but the only Derevi build that works in my meta has about 10 wipes in it, I wipe, flash in Derevi, and attack 2-3 turns, rinse, repeat. Orbs meet with instant removal or counter magic, equipment is a total loss of tempo because it is destroyed within a turn or so.
My question was motivated mostly by the realization that a "budget" version of my list is impossible. Maelstrom a turn slower is pretty much the same deck, but Derevi a turn slower is a completely different deck. The issue is that ramp decks have 1 mana on turn 1, 3-5 after turn 2, and 5-8 after turn 3, etc. So you have to contain that third turn very proactively or wait for the table to run out of answers to Orb effects.
Stasis/Winter Orb/Static Orb/Hokori are delaying mechanisms to buy us time to assemble our combo pieces. There are a couple ways we can make them one-sided. Stasis with Heliod, Derevi, and a few critters in play. Prophet of Kruphix with one of the other 3. I do not play these pieces unless I think I can benefit the most from one.
I don't run enough sac outlets to tap down Static Orb at the end of my last opponent's turn. I leave the orbs untapped usually. Edit: It is possible to tap down Static Orb with Derevi if we have Deadeye in play
Black_Miasma: I've run Lark combo with Mirror Entity in Rafiq and never liked seeing any of those pieces in an opening hand. The short answer is I think the combo is inferior and there isn't enough space for both. Khamal is a fairly important part of my Deadeye combo. Fierce Empath into Deadeye with Bloom Tender turns into Elesh Norn and Kamahl. Lands go away. Concessions roll in shortly. Only 2 pieces are needed: Fierce Empath and Bloom Tender. It's much more compact and the pieces are more versatile. Assembling Mirror Entity, Karmic Guide, and Reveillark is quite difficult. If Deadeye is exiled plan B is the beatdown approach using our friends Stasis/Hokori/Winter Orb/Static Orb.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
It seems like you don't want to win, you want to win BY ________. Like you want to be flashy, but you don't care if it actually works well or often.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
You also have some bizarre beliefs about Derevi: This is far from the best ramp deck available. Wanderer/Prossh/Marath can all routinely make 9 mana by turn 5, with turn 3 being rare and turn 4 being average. Derevi is the equivalent of running Sword of Feast and Famine as a general. He untaps lands: you get to tap out twice each turn.
Also, you didn't give "reasons" vis-a-vis Reveillark:
In a different deck with a different general, you didn't "like" seeing things in an opening hand even though you could easily partial Paris them away.
I know better than to argue with a subjective knower, but if you're going to treat your feelings like facts I can at least do the community the favor of labeling you as such.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
You've pretty much fallen in love with an inferior combo. I didn't discard Lark combo because it worked wonderfully. My experience indicated it was slow and too difficult to assemble.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Experience is fundamentally wedded to its context. Even the Time Vault-Voltaic Key combo is awful in a Vintage deck with 4x Null Rod and 4x Stony Silence.
Said more formally: optimization processes seek minima in some cost function. Some of these minima are local, one is global. Drop a bowling ball from a plane over a random patch of the Earth, and odds are in doesn't find its way into the Mariana Trench. I'm accusing you of having found one of these local minima: that your deck is optimized for a particular approach, but that that approach is not as powerful as others. Because you haven't tried the others and you have no recourse to more general theory, your experience is valid but not particularly useful.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Swifts deck is focused on 2 things, Locking out and Deadeye combo.
And doing those 2 things as effectively as possible with the most consistency.
It really comes to meta choices and what people play with regularly.
Building in numerous 2-3 combos does not optimize your deck. If that was the case, then every single Melira-Pod deck in Modern would have Melira and Archangel/Feeder combo.
Let's say you put two separate two card combos in your deck just because you want an extra "OOPS! I win!" factor.
Card A (Melira+Seer) and B (Finks/Redcap) is an instant combo
Card C (Archangel) and D (Feeder) is an instant combo
But unless A also combos with C or D, you don't really get an extra "OOPS! I win!" factor at all.
I could see the case for it if it was something like
Card A (Exarch) and card B (Splinter Twin)
Card C (Restoration) and card D (Kiki-Jikki)
Every card in both combos interact favorably with each other, because Kiki is just added redundancy for Twin. What else is strong about the Twin+Exarch and Kiki+Angel is that they actually cover for each other where they are weak. Abrupt Decay stops the Exarch part of the combo, Kiki+Angel covers that. Kiki is bad vs Lightning Bolt, but Twin+Exarch has that covered.
Putting Lark in just doesn't match that level of synergy to make it worth it.
Swift keeping lark/karmic/mirror out of his build and focusing on Deadeye + lockdown is the same thing as Pod keeping out Archangel/Feeder and focusing just on Melira + Gavony Township.
I don't think so. If you're going to run a card just because they "alone are worth running," play a goodstuff.dec and call it a day. Notice how swift is also omitting the obviously good Sakura-Tribe Elder also. At the end of the day, if you want to run the best list, you have to leave out a lot of Top 100 EDH cards.
Reveillark/Karmic Guide are value but you don't always want value (and they aren't always value). What if your graveyard is empty, then Lark/Guide just get stuck in your hand. A 5cc 4/3 or 2/2 just doesn't cut it.
The shortest answer is that highlander is different from a 4x format like Modern. The closest correlate would probably be Vintage combo decks where the combo decks do tend to run multiple paths to victory due to the restriction of most combo pieces.
Example: Time Vault, Tinker->Blightsteel, and Oath of Druids for Emrakul
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
But if going to say EDH isn't like Modern, then you definitely shouldn't say EDH is like Vintage. Just because there are a lot of one-of's doesn't make them similar.
Your example is missing a lot of context.
1. The power level of Time Vault + Voltaic Key in Vintage is much stronger than Lark combo is in EDH. It does the whole "OOPS! I win" much easier and faster. It's worth running "just because," but Reveillark isn't.
2. Most vintage decks play 5 moxen, so playing Tinker is just part of optimizing your deck. Tinker actually interacts with your whole deck and what it wants to do (Vault, Jar, Blightsteel) and Reveillark doesn't. Reveillark isn't helping swift lock opponents down and doesn't combo with Derevi.
3. There is also a great counter-example in your example. Not every single Vintage deck that plays Tinker also plays a giant robot (Blightsteel, Inkwell, etc). So are you going to say that every deck not playing a giant robot should?
You should look at the merit of why a deck runs multiple win-cons. Multiple win-cons doesn't mean winning more
2. Tinker is also relatively rare and almost never seen in decks without Blightsteel. Occasionally it crops up in Burning Oath with Memory Jar as a draw7 substitute or to grab Lotus to feed Yawgmoth's Will.
3. Every deck that plays Tinker plays 2+ other win-cons.
Good luck finding an example of a Vintage/Modern/Legacy deck that only runs one win-con and still performs. Even Modern storm combo runs 2x Grapeshot. The only example I'm aware of is Legacy Wish-less ANT and they scoop to Gaddock Teeg in game 1. I'm also hard pressed to find a winning list from the last few months.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
You could run something like Aura Shards to beat the artifacts or enchantments.
I do agree on the removal/disruption being creature based. Outside of Bane there doesn't seem to be any creatures that hit multiple of each card type, unfortunately.
You must mean Fracturing Gust? Or is there something else that does that? Life isn't usually a factor but the instant speed removal is very handy. Of the options I was looking through it appears to be the best one. Aura Shards probably number two. Really sad they are not creatures. Gaddock Teeg does limit some of our options occasionally, but he is so good at stopping really bad things from happening that I do not see myself taking him out. Zur cannot win while Teeg is in play. And a lot of the splashy plays my friends love to run: Tooth and Nail, Bribery, Sneak Attack, Living Death, Cataclysm, etc cannot get around the little guy. The assortment of Teeg, Aven Mindcensor, Grand Arbiter, and Elesh Norn is pretty good at annoying our opponents. I'm going to cut Nykthos and something else, replacing them with a basic land and Linvala. We almost never have enough blue devotion to go infinite with Nykthos. Deadeye + Derevi is just 3. Lotus Vale works better
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
I wasn't recommending removing Teen, he is far too good, I was remarking that it was unfortunate that the 2 best runner-ups to Bane were 4+ non-creature spells.
Have you considered running Crop Rotation? It would let you find Lotus Vale the turn you wish to go infinite. Or Tolaria West? They each feel a little weak to me but, seeing as they tutor for ample of the infinite combo I thought I would suggest Them.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
While you've become an expert on playing/tweaking a particular 95 or so, a 25 card change is like a completely different deck.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
I have, in Maelstrom Wanderer its awesome, in Derevi its a train wreck from hell.
Its kinda funny but the only Derevi build that works in my meta has about 10 wipes in it, I wipe, flash in Derevi, and attack 2-3 turns, rinse, repeat. Orbs meet with instant removal or counter magic, equipment is a total loss of tempo because it is destroyed within a turn or so.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
How does my Derevi fail in your meta?
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
My question was motivated mostly by the realization that a "budget" version of my list is impossible. Maelstrom a turn slower is pretty much the same deck, but Derevi a turn slower is a completely different deck. The issue is that ramp decks have 1 mana on turn 1, 3-5 after turn 2, and 5-8 after turn 3, etc. So you have to contain that third turn very proactively or wait for the table to run out of answers to Orb effects.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420