I am very interested in this deck. It looks heavily blue-based, splash black and white for extra goodies so I'm curious what your mana base looks like. I am also curious how you normally win games; do you just draw a bunch of cards and set-up your time walks to "go-off" out of nowhere, or do you use them as incremental advantage to build up to a giant Debt to the Deathless, Vizkopa Guildmage/Beacon of Immortality combo?
I am very interested in this deck. It looks heavily blue-based, splash black and white for extra goodies so I'm curious what your mana base looks like. I am also curious how you normally win games; do you just draw a bunch of cards and set-up your time walks to "go-off" out of nowhere, or do you use them as incremental advantage to build up to a giant Debt to the Deathless, Vizkopa Guildmage/Beacon of Immortality combo?
I'm not near my deck but off the top of my head, mana base is ABU duals, shocks, fetches, Ancient Tomb, Temple of the False God, Mystic Gate, Command Tower, Reflecting Pool, Tolaria West, 4 Island, 2 Swamp, 1 Plains and some other utility lands I can't remember. I used to run Urborg and Coffers but I've moved away from win conditions that need large mana so they are out right now. I think I'm running 32 total right now with over 80% capable of tapping for blue or fetching blue. Fetches almost always grab the blue duals first.
Due to the nature of the deck my mulligan decisions are almost entirely based on land. I try to mull to at least 3 lands. As long as I take a 3 land hand I tend to never get mana screwed or color screwed. The cantrips and rocks help ensure that.
The time spells are more about taking incremental advantage to setup your win. Early on they are used to get extra land drops and cycle through my deck faster. Mid and late game they are mostly used to get me to my win cons. There is the potential of taking 3-6 extra turns in a row but more often than not 1-2 are all need after turn 6 or so.
Basic game plan is to try to deck cycle either to Mind Over Matter, Future Sight, Notion Thief or some other high value combo piece. Usually by then you have a tutor or draw spells to get you the other pieces.
A typical game might play out something like this:
T1: Fetchland pass. Crack fetch before T2 for a shock.
T3: Miracle Mastery. Land drop. Cast some 1 mana spell. Sol Ring, Top, a cantrip or a tutor.
Extra Turn: Land drop. If you have mana and a Warp or Manipulation cast that. Otherwise cast rocks, draw or filter spells while holding up counter magic. Pass
T4.5: Land drop. Rocks, draw, tutor, extra turn or Timetwister are all good here.
T5ish: Land drop into Time Spiral is a great play here. Unless you have the pieces to attempt a win.
And so on.
It plays a lot like a draw-go control deck but you can start threatening to combo extremely early. You only need 5 mana (or less depending on the situation) for a LabMan/Consultation win. So if you can tutor those quickly enough you can look to drop it turn 3-4. I've done it on t2 before. MoM wins can sometimes happen turn 4-5 but more reliably t6 on.
Its consistency against non control is a little scary (and boring). Against other control decks or in a pod with fast aggro and control it is extremely flexible and diverse (beyond its end result).
Honestly, I'm starting to get a little bored with how it typically plays out. Mostly just with how it ends up winning most of the times it wins. I'm thinking about reworking it a little to make it play like a storm deck that doesn't win with storm. But I haven't really figured out how I want it to win. I love the extra turns, control package and wheels/card draw. No matter how the deck changes those will always make up the shell. Beyond that I'm not sure how I want it to play.
One idea I have is to try to make a Planeswalkers matter version. Use the time warp, draw and control shell with PWs like JTMS, Karn, Ugin, Teferi and the Elspeths and try to win with PW ultimates through extra turns and Chain Veil. To do that I may have to play more removal and token production.
As you say, I can see this destroying non-control decks. It is a very efficient list, full of many aggressively costed cards and a streamlined, singular purpose. I like it. Thank you for the explanations.
True Conviction works really well with Drogskol Reaver to give you tons of card draw, and if you go get Exquisite Blood it means each double strike lifelink creature draws you 4 cards, and gives you 4 individual instances of lifegain. It's a fun way to have a lot of synergy without going infinite and making your friends mad.
Again, what is really appealing about your build is how streamline it is. My game plan is very clunky and requires a lot of pieces to start doing the things I mention, which got me thinking: What if you use lifegain in conjunction with cards like Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Well of Lost Dreams, and Greed to deck yourself? In reality, I think the answer is likely that it's just slower than what you already have.
As you say, I can see this destroying non-control decks. It is a very efficient list, full of many aggressively costed cards and a streamlined, singular purpose. I like it. Thank you for the explanations.
True Conviction works really well with Drogskol Reaver to give you tons of card draw, and if you go get Exquisite Blood it means each double strike lifelink creature draws you 4 cards, and gives you 4 individual instances of lifegain. It's a fun way to have a lot of synergy without going infinite and making your friends mad.
Again, what is really appealing about your build is how streamline it is. My game plan is very clunky and requires a lot of pieces to start doing the things I mention, which got me thinking: What if you use lifegain in conjunction with cards like Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Well of Lost Dreams, and Greed to deck yourself? In reality, I think the answer is likely that it's just slower than what you already have.
That is very similar to the origins of this deck. It can still be very effective with a strong control shell around it.
As far as Necro et al...yes, they are much slower and more risky in some ways than my methods for decking myself. However, Necro is an incredibly strong card that still bounces in and out if my build. The main reason I'm not running it right niw is the triple BBB cost. Since I'm mostly U with W and B as splash colors getting triple B can be hard sometimes.
Currently I'm testing a small package of cards to give me an alternate win condition of Oloro voltron. I haven't gotten any real games with the new cards so I have no idea if I try to make them full time alterations. Basically it consists of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in for a swamp and Nightmare Lash, Fireshrieker, Corrupted Conscience and Phyresis in for Windfall, Gilded Drake, Oblation and Demonic Consultation.
My goldfish games with those changes still end up mostly ending with LabMan. However, the Oloro voltron package appears to create a dangerous situation that demands answers that otherwise would be used on LabMan combo pieces.
Windfall may end up being to permanant cut for Dig Through Time and Drake the permanant cut for Shift.
I have read every page of this thread. Lots of great ideas here.
I do think though this needs to break off into creatureless and creaturefull decks. They seem to be drastically different decks. I am much more fond of the creatureless deck version.
Has anyone in this thread recently built a creatureless Oloro deck with the most up to date cards?
I have read every page of this thread. Lots of great ideas here.
I do think though this needs to break off into creatureless and creaturefull decks. They seem to be drastically different decks. I am much more fond of the creatureless deck version.
Has anyone in this thread recently built a creatureless Oloro deck with the most up to date cards?
I don't know if he has really looked into Khans block cards yet but Honor Basquit has a solid 100% creatureless version here:
I like to play with lifelink flyers in my Oloro deck, but I also like your Time deck a lot. So I adapted my old, mostly black and white and much slower build, by adding elements of yours. The result is a versatile, fast deck (3.65 CMC), which draws a lot and kills in various ways. Given that I don’t commit to a particular strategy, it’s far from optimal, but It’s a lot of fun. Here's what it looks like:
I like to play with lifelink flyers in my Oloro deck, but I also like your Time deck a lot. So I adapted my old, mostly black and white and much slower build, by adding elements of yours. The result is a versatile, fast deck (3.65 CMC), which draws a lot and kills in various ways. Given that I don’t commit to a particular strategy, it’s far from optimal, but It’s a lot of fun. Here's what it looks like:
I tend to shy away from Delve effects because I play with Snapcaster Mage, Archaeomancer and Volrath's Stronghold. But you're right, these are really good cards. I'll try them and see what happens.
Thanks a lot for the insight and sorry for your loss.
I run Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise, Skeletal Scrying, and Snapcaster. Never have an issue except when you draw DTT and TC either in your openning hand or early on. But can cast 1 of them by turn 4-5 usually.
New Narset seems pretty sweet in a control shell like this. Draws cards, doubles up draw/removal, removes opponents spells. What more can an Esper player ask for?
New Narset seems pretty sweet in a control shell like this. Draws cards, doubles up draw/removal, removes opponents spells. What more can an Esper player ask for?
I was thinking the same thing when I saw her. She gains even more usefulness with all the top deck manipulation I run. I'd be happy just using the plus most of the time but if I ever ult her it would win games in my meta.
I'll test her but she might not stick for the same reason JTMS and other walkers rarely stay in this deck. Walkers don't last long in my metas. But getting one or two activations with her could be clutch.
New Narset seems pretty sweet in a control shell like this. Draws cards, doubles up draw/removal, removes opponents spells. What more can an Esper player ask for?
I was thinking the same thing when I saw her. She gains even more usefulness with all the top deck manipulation I run. I'd be happy just using the plus most of the time but if I ever ult her it would win games in my meta.
I'll test her but she might not stick for the same reason JTMS and other walkers rarely stay in this deck. Walkers don't last long in my metas. But getting one or two activations with her could be clutch.
Clearly you just need to be better at protecting your walkers.
Of the new Dragons of Tarkir cards, I'm really looking at Sunscorch Regent. That seems like some really nice card draw, and its a Taurean Mauler with flying in our colors.
For the extra turns, how do you feel about Medomai the Ageless? Not only can it net you an extra turn or two, but it fits in with the immortality theme.
Of the new Dragons of Tarkir cards, I'm really looking at Sunscorch Regent. That seems like some really nice card draw, and its a Taurean Mauler with flying in our colors.
For the extra turns, how do you feel about Medomai the Ageless? Not only can it net you an extra turn or two, but it fits in with the immortality theme.
I also like the Regent but he isn't good for this deck. Some of the dragons in this set have had me thinking about an alternate build.
Medomai is pretty high CMC. Most cards I run over 5 cmc either win me the game as soon as I cast them or create a situation where its damn hard for me to lose after they resolve. Medomai doesn't exactly fit that model. If I were to add anymore extra turn spells it would probably be Temporal Trespass. My experience with Dig and Cruise tells me that Trespass will regularly be 3-5 mana to cast and UUU is no issue with this mana base.
I said I rarely block. This is an esper control combo deck. Every creature in the deck is either for control or combo purposes. Most have very low toughness and I do not want them to die.
I'm not near my deck but off the top of my head, mana base is ABU duals, shocks, fetches, Ancient Tomb, Temple of the False God, Mystic Gate, Command Tower, Reflecting Pool, Tolaria West, 4 Island, 2 Swamp, 1 Plains and some other utility lands I can't remember. I used to run Urborg and Coffers but I've moved away from win conditions that need large mana so they are out right now. I think I'm running 32 total right now with over 80% capable of tapping for blue or fetching blue. Fetches almost always grab the blue duals first.
Due to the nature of the deck my mulligan decisions are almost entirely based on land. I try to mull to at least 3 lands. As long as I take a 3 land hand I tend to never get mana screwed or color screwed. The cantrips and rocks help ensure that.
As far as win cons...I've altered it to be very one dimensional right now since I am seeing no extract effects at the moment. I've taken out Vizkopa and Debt and I'm all in on Laboratory Maniac combos. Mind Over Matter + Arcanis the Omnipotent or Azami, Lady of Scrolls or Jace's Archivist. Or Notion Thief + Archivist / Windfall. Or Demonic Consultation to exile my deck then some way of drawing.
The time spells are more about taking incremental advantage to setup your win. Early on they are used to get extra land drops and cycle through my deck faster. Mid and late game they are mostly used to get me to my win cons. There is the potential of taking 3-6 extra turns in a row but more often than not 1-2 are all need after turn 6 or so.
Basic game plan is to try to deck cycle either to Mind Over Matter, Future Sight, Notion Thief or some other high value combo piece. Usually by then you have a tutor or draw spells to get you the other pieces.
A typical game might play out something like this:
T1: Fetchland pass. Crack fetch before T2 for a shock.
T2: Fetch or dual. Cast Imperial Seal for Temporal Mastery. Or wait and instant speed Mystical Tutor or Vampiric Tutor to top deck Mastery. Whichever option is available/best.
T3: Miracle Mastery. Land drop. Cast some 1 mana spell. Sol Ring, Top, a cantrip or a tutor.
Extra Turn: Land drop. If you have mana and a Warp or Manipulation cast that. Otherwise cast rocks, draw or filter spells while holding up counter magic. Pass
T4.5: Land drop. Rocks, draw, tutor, extra turn or Timetwister are all good here.
T5ish: Land drop into Time Spiral is a great play here. Unless you have the pieces to attempt a win.
And so on.
It plays a lot like a draw-go control deck but you can start threatening to combo extremely early. You only need 5 mana (or less depending on the situation) for a LabMan/Consultation win. So if you can tutor those quickly enough you can look to drop it turn 3-4. I've done it on t2 before. MoM wins can sometimes happen turn 4-5 but more reliably t6 on.
Its consistency against non control is a little scary (and boring). Against other control decks or in a pod with fast aggro and control it is extremely flexible and diverse (beyond its end result).
Honestly, I'm starting to get a little bored with how it typically plays out. Mostly just with how it ends up winning most of the times it wins. I'm thinking about reworking it a little to make it play like a storm deck that doesn't win with storm. But I haven't really figured out how I want it to win. I love the extra turns, control package and wheels/card draw. No matter how the deck changes those will always make up the shell. Beyond that I'm not sure how I want it to play.
One idea I have is to try to make a Planeswalkers matter version. Use the time warp, draw and control shell with PWs like JTMS, Karn, Ugin, Teferi and the Elspeths and try to win with PW ultimates through extra turns and Chain Veil. To do that I may have to play more removal and token production.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
What I've been trying to do with Oloro is base a deck around his lifegain ability. Using aggressively costed creatures like Serra Ascendant and Ajani's Pridemate in conjunction with Drogskol Reaver and Archangel of Thune to beatdown your opponents.
True Conviction works really well with Drogskol Reaver to give you tons of card draw, and if you go get Exquisite Blood it means each double strike lifelink creature draws you 4 cards, and gives you 4 individual instances of lifegain. It's a fun way to have a lot of synergy without going infinite and making your friends mad.
Once your at that point, you play cards like Phyrexian Processor, Serra Avatar, and Ajani Goldmane to make a bunch of really large guys. At this point I usually just drop a Phenax, God of Deception and mill everyone.
Again, what is really appealing about your build is how streamline it is. My game plan is very clunky and requires a lot of pieces to start doing the things I mention, which got me thinking: What if you use lifegain in conjunction with cards like Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Well of Lost Dreams, and Greed to deck yourself? In reality, I think the answer is likely that it's just slower than what you already have.
That is very similar to the origins of this deck. It can still be very effective with a strong control shell around it.
As far as Necro et al...yes, they are much slower and more risky in some ways than my methods for decking myself. However, Necro is an incredibly strong card that still bounces in and out if my build. The main reason I'm not running it right niw is the triple BBB cost. Since I'm mostly U with W and B as splash colors getting triple B can be hard sometimes.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Sorry about the late response. I've had some issues going on with my Mom's health and whenever I'm on site I'm not near my deck.
I have edited the first post with the most current deck list before I test some new strategies. I've finally included the land base in the list.
I just updated. Right now I'm looking into trying to find full time cuts for Reality Shift and Dig Through Time.
Currently I'm testing a small package of cards to give me an alternate win condition of Oloro voltron. I haven't gotten any real games with the new cards so I have no idea if I try to make them full time alterations. Basically it consists of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in for a swamp and Nightmare Lash, Fireshrieker, Corrupted Conscience and Phyresis in for Windfall, Gilded Drake, Oblation and Demonic Consultation.
My goldfish games with those changes still end up mostly ending with LabMan. However, the Oloro voltron package appears to create a dangerous situation that demands answers that otherwise would be used on LabMan combo pieces.
Windfall may end up being to permanant cut for Dig Through Time and Drake the permanant cut for Shift.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I do think though this needs to break off into creatureless and creaturefull decks. They seem to be drastically different decks. I am much more fond of the creatureless deck version.
Has anyone in this thread recently built a creatureless Oloro deck with the most up to date cards?
I don't know if he has really looked into Khans block cards yet but Honor Basquit has a solid 100% creatureless version here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/568212-consistent-oloro-creatureless-control
I'm going to be updating my list soon. Been running a Tidespout Tyrant package I enjoy.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
6 Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Lifelink Flyer (7)
1 Serra Ascendant
5 Archangel of Thune
5 Baneslayer Angel
5 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
5 Divinity of Pride
7 Drogskol Reaver
8 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Wizard (6)
2 Azorius Guildmage
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Trinket Mage
4 Archaeomancer
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
Draw (9)
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Necropotence
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Fact or Fiction
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Recurring Insight
Tutor (4)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
Spot Removal (6)
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Oblation
3 Vindicate
4 Return to Dust
4 Utter End
Board Wipe (4)
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Wrath of God
Counterspell (6)
0 Pact of Negation
1 Swan Song
2 Counterspell
3 Forbid
3 Hinder
3 Spell Crumple
Ramp (5)
1 Sol Ring
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Darksteel Ingot
4 Thran Dynamo
5 Gilded Lotus
4 Debt to the Deathless
5 Hatred
7 Magister Sphinx
10 Storm Herd
Good Stuff (10)
1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Clever Impersonator
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Rite of Replication
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Bribery
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
5 Time Warp
7 Temporal Mastery
10 Time Stretch
Land (38)
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Command Tower
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Scrubland
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tolaria West
1 Tundra
1 Underground River
1 Underground Sea
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Expedition Map
2 Arcane Denial
2 Reality Shift
2 Trickbind
3 Rhystic Study
4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Well of Lost Dreams
5 Future Sight
6 Merciless Eviction
7 Commandeer
I'm looking forward to your primer!
I like it. Pretty versatile. You should check out the Dragons of Tarkir spoilers, I think there are a few creatures you will really like.
Also, consider finding spots for Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise. Those cards are crazy good.
As far as the primer...work is very slow. My Mom got sick in December and passed in February so I haven't had much time to work on it lately.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Thanks a lot for the insight and sorry for your loss.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
I was thinking the same thing when I saw her. She gains even more usefulness with all the top deck manipulation I run. I'd be happy just using the plus most of the time but if I ever ult her it would win games in my meta.
I'll test her but she might not stick for the same reason JTMS and other walkers rarely stay in this deck. Walkers don't last long in my metas. But getting one or two activations with her could be clutch.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Clearly you just need to be better at protecting your walkers.
For the extra turns, how do you feel about Medomai the Ageless? Not only can it net you an extra turn or two, but it fits in with the immortality theme.
I also like the Regent but he isn't good for this deck. Some of the dragons in this set have had me thinking about an alternate build.
Medomai is pretty high CMC. Most cards I run over 5 cmc either win me the game as soon as I cast them or create a situation where its damn hard for me to lose after they resolve. Medomai doesn't exactly fit that model. If I were to add anymore extra turn spells it would probably be Temporal Trespass. My experience with Dig and Cruise tells me that Trespass will regularly be 3-5 mana to cast and UUU is no issue with this mana base.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
If you mean Whip of Erebos I think you completely misunderstand the point of this deck. I never attack and rarely block.
The activated ability is also irrelevant. I rarely care about recurring a creature and if I did, there are far better ways of doing it than Whip.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I said I rarely block. This is an esper control combo deck. Every creature in the deck is either for control or combo purposes. Most have very low toughness and I do not want them to die.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB