MTG Salvation

So this is my attempt of making a competitive mono red EDH deck. Porphourous and Kiki-Jiki are probably stronger than Zirilan overall but as far as mono red Generals go I would put him as the third strongest (Jaya and Godo being very close contenders). His power comes from being able to tutor (even if it is narrow) and provide card advantage, two things that red severely lacks. This deck is still in it's baby stages and I'm tuning it as I go, finding out what cards do and do not shine in my meta.

So far this deck has shown outstanding promise having won all but one of the three player games I have played in (while it's a contender in the 1v1's we play, it's not nearly as strong). I attribute most of it's success to the fact it is a new deck and is mono red. So people don't know what to expect from it or even care.

Anyways, we'll talk some more after the list.



Cards that I want to put in but I am still looking for room:

• Bogardan Hellkite
  
• Memory Jar
  
• Goblin Welder
  
• Rishadan Pawnshop
  
• Worldgorger Dragon
  
• Extraplanar Lens
  
• Scourge of Kher Ridges
  
• Knollspine Dragon
  
• Expedition Map

The only reason some of these cards aren't in here (like Knollspine Dragon) are because I got them after I made the deck.

Goals for this deck currently:
I want to speed it up a bit. More mana rocks and value lands (Ancient Tomb).
Probably Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Thran Dynamo and Coalition Relic?

I don't want it to be gimmicky. I don't have a ton of things that only interact with Zirilan (though I do run some like Stylus and Sundial) because this is a competitive deck. And most of those cards are pretty terrible without Zirilan.

I want to run a solid dragon package. Right now I'm not super happy with it. I want dragons but I don't want to many. I figure 18 or so dragons is plenty. I took out Hellkite Igniter but I am considering putting him back in. So any thoughts on the best of the best dragons is appreciated.


Cards I plan to add once I get them:

• Gauntlet of Might
  
• Diamond Valley
  
• Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

Anyways, thoughts on the list and any suggestions are appreciated.

Updated the list

- Tormod's Crypt
- Junktroller
- Psychosis Crawler
- Chain Reaction
- Inferno Titan
- Skullclamp
- Darksteel Plate
- Culling Dais

+ Knollspine Dragon
+ Rishadan Pawnshop
+ Scourge of Kher Ridges
+ Extraplanar Lens
+ Boagardan Hellkite
+ Expedition Map
+ Goblin Welder
+ Memory Jar

Couple of quick suggestions from when I ran Zirilan:

Braid of Fire worked well for me. There were a lot of ways to use it with my dragons and Zirilan.

Thousand-Year Elixir worked really well. Being able to untap with Zirilan to use him more than once a turn was always awesome.

I wasn't a huge fan of Ryusei specifically because he killed off Zirilan when he died. If you can get a hold of Thunder Dragon he usually does the trick.

Hellkite Igniter is a must include. He can hit extremely hard with the amount of artifacts you're running.

Your curve seems really high. I know it's tough and you want to fit in a variety of dragons, but you probably are going to have to cut some. Really, you want each of them to provide a specific answer and you're likely going to have to avoid redundancy. Getting it down to 13 or 14 will really help.

Helm of Possession isn't a bad sacrifice outlet. And Extraplanar Lens will help with your mana production. Remember to switch to snow lands if you add it. I know, you may get burned with the Lens, but many times it will help.

Just some ideas.

Quote from Tarasco

Couple of quick suggestions from when I ran Zirilan:

Braid of Fire worked well for me. There were a lot of ways to use it with my dragons and Zirilan.

Thousand-Year Elixir worked really well. Being able to untap with Zirilan to use him more than once a turn was always awesome.

I wasn't a huge fan of Ryusei specifically because he killed off Zirilan when he died. If you can get a hold of Thunder Dragon he usually does the trick.

Hellkite Igniter is a must include. He can hit extremely hard with the amount of artifacts you're running.

Your curve seems really high. I know it's tough and you want to fit in a variety of dragons, but you probably are going to have to cut some. Really, you want each of them to provide a specific answer and you're likely going to have to avoid redundancy. Getting it down to 13 or 14 will really help.

Helm of Possession isn't a bad sacrifice outlet. And Extraplanar Lens will help with your mana production. Remember to switch to snow lands if you add it. I know, you may get burned with the Lens, but many times it will help.

Just some ideas.

Extraplanar Lens and Thunder Dragon are already in the deck.

I currently run 15 dragons. I don't think the percentage is great enough between 14 and 15 to warrant cutting any as all the ones I currently run are the best of what we have currently.
I
ran Thousand- Year Elixir and it was more cute than it was good. It's almost unavoidable to not run any 'cutesy' cards with Zirilan but I want to keep them as few as possible. Which is why I don't run Braid of Fire. It's pretty bad outside of Zirilan.

I know several people run snow lands, so it hardly makes a difference if I run them as either way I'm doubling roughly the same amount of people's lands.

The biggest difference is that the stronger decks run snow, so I'm better off without them.

Hellkite Igniter was in the original incarnation of the deck, but he was pretty lackluster. I might try him again, but as far as beaters go, Dragon Tyrant is consistently better while the Igniter can have those occasional explosive plays.

Helm doesn't sound bad, and I might try it. It would replace Goblin Bombardment, so I don't know as I find free sac outlets to generally be superior.

Yeah, don't take out Bombardment, it's definitely better.

I think you're right about speeding it up. The mana rocks your mention (Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Thran Dynamo and Coalition Relic) should be included. I think you can take out Gilded Lotus for at least one of them, it just comes out too slow.

Other possible cuts: Vicious Shadows (powerful, but costs a ton), Jaya Ballard (are you worried that much about Blue?), Stranglehold (seems more good stuff than helpful). I assume you're getting mileage out of Ruination and Blood Moon, otherwise those could possibly go as well.

Personally I don't like Mimic Vat in the deck because I'd rather recycle a dragon than lose it permanently once someone deals with the Vat, but it's obviously good.

Balefire Dragon is better to me than Mordant Dragon. How often does Mordant's ability to pump himself come up? Most of the time it seems that the 6 damage Balefire does is enough.

Thundermaw Hellkite is good at clearing the way when necessary.

Quote from Tarasco

Yeah, don't take out Bombardment, it's definitely better.

I think you're right about speeding it up. The mana rocks your mention (Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Thran Dynamo and Coalition Relic) should be included. I think you can take out Gilded Lotus for at least one of them, it just comes out too slow.

Other possible cuts: Vicious Shadows (powerful, but costs a ton), Jaya Ballard (are you worried that much about Blue?), Stranglehold (seems more good stuff than helpful). I assume you're getting mileage out of Ruination and Blood Moon, otherwise those could possibly go as well.

Personally I don't like Mimic Vat in the deck because I'd rather recycle a dragon than lose it permanently once someone deals with the Vat, but it's obviously good.

Balefire Dragon is better to me than Mordant Dragon. How often does Mordant's ability to pump himself come up? Most of the time it seems that the 6 damage Balefire does is enough.

Thundermaw Hellkite is good at clearing the way when necessary.

Vicious Shadows is a house of a card and probably one of the best win conditions ever printed for Red. I think you're severely underestimate Stranglehold. It neuters the two most difficult matchups for this deck, ramp and combo. And shutting off the ability for your opponents to tutor for answers is strong as well. Jaya isn't a 'hate blue' card. She has far more utility than that. Her ability to take care of utility creatures and small generals and the fact that she can wrath makes her a strong card.

You can't always count on having a way to recycle dragons so having enough options is important. Not to mention Balefire isn't always the right dragon for the job while Mordant is. Just depends on the situation. A toolbox deck doesn't just need powertools, sometimes the job calls for a screwdriver.

I'll be working on adding the mana rocks as I continue to play this deck but i don't think I'll be cutting Gilded Lotus but more along the lines of supplementing it with the other ramp. The fact that it is colored is important.


Thundermaw will go in when I get one because he helps tap down fliers so my dudes can get it. We'll see how strong that effect is once once I acquire him.

Ruination is much stronger than Blood Moon, but I like having both around, though when I get down to the super fine tuning, Blood Moon will be on watch.

I love my Ziril deck, so I'll offer my two-cents.

Id replace Mordant Dragon with Moonveil Dragon. Mordant was hardly relevant and Moonveil ends games.

Hall of the Bandit Lord has frequently been a part of setting up kills. The haste doesnt wear off at EoT so you can make good response times.

Hellkite Igniter...lackluster? Youre running 25 artifacts. He's a one-shot dragon that doesn't need extra effort to set up.

WORLDGORGER, GORGER OF WORLDS! This card is a MVP. Seriously. Unless your table is running a bunch of stifle effects, get this in your list ASAP. Being able to respond to any and all board wipes then sit back as the only person with creatures...
Cyclonic Rift? GORGED.
Wrath? K. GORGED IT.
Kiki swings with dual It That Betrays? TROLOLGORGED & DOUBLEGORGED.

Gorger is also a big reason why 1k year-elixir is still in my deck. Good response tool.

I could probably go on for awhile and give pros and cons on every pick and cards I feel dont work/synergize with the goal of Ziril. Just enjoy the hell out of the deck. I'll probably update my list this week in the database so feel free to ask me for opinions.

Quote from Tremulant

I love my Ziril deck, so I'll offer my two-cents.

Id replace Mordant Dragon with Moonveil Dragon. Mordant was hardly relevant and Moonveil ends games.

Hall of the Bandit Lord has frequently been a part of setting up kills. The haste doesnt wear off at EoT so you can make good response times.

Hellkite Igniter...lackluster? Youre running 25 artifacts. He's a one-shot dragon that doesn't need extra effort to set up.

WORLDGORGER, GORGER OF WORLDS! This card is a MVP. Seriously. Unless your table is running a bunch of stifle effects, get this in your list ASAP. Being able to respond to any and all board wipes then sit back as the only person with creatures...
Cyclonic Rift? GORGED.
Wrath? K. GORGED IT.
Kiki swings with dual It That Betrays? TROLOLGORGED & DOUBLEGORGED.

Gorger is also a big reason why 1k year-elixir is still in my deck. Good response tool.

I could probably go on for awhile and give pros and cons on every pick and cards I feel dont work/synergize with the goal of Ziril. Just enjoy the hell out of the deck. I'll probably update my list this week in the database so feel free to ask me for opinions.

Mordant handles threats I need to while being a decent beater. I never have enough dragons on board to make Moonveil worthwhile.

I do need to add Hall of the Bandit Lord but I'm pretty sure I traded my sole copy. So I'll have to find another.

Igniter is just a beat, and a fairly inconsistent one. Sure if I have 4 or 5 artifacts out, then he is amazing. Otherwise Dragon Tyrant is always better. And he doesn't rely on my board. Like I said, If I feel that I need more big beats, then I will reconsider him.

My problem with Gorger is that he require me to have Zirilan untapped on my opponents turn (not something that happens very often). But even moreso the amount of reward he brings doesn't outweigh the risks. My playgroup is competitive and very removal heavy. And any instant speed removal in response to the trigger is going to take me out of the game. I don't like the idea of that at all, even if it would save my stuff from an occasional Cyclonic Rift.

He also wants gimmicky untap stuff to make him more useful so you can untap Zirilan in response to put him into play. And I'm not into the really gimmicky stuff.


Definitely need to get a Hall of the Bandit Lord. I probably need an All is Dust as well.

Using your general as a tool box is what the deck does. Saving your board with this tool box isnt a gimmick, it's how the deck can function to win a game. If you think losing Zirilan is going to shut you out, then imagine losing all your ramp and Zirilan to an austere command and having to pay 7-9-11 to get him back. It's the ultimate shutout for this deck. I don't know about you, but in a removal heavy meta I can usually smell a wrath coming. Hell, I've used gorger to save only a caged sun so I could come back and win next turn. Not to mention he can 'scapeshift' someone with valakut for a kill or a decent sweeper.

A dragon is a beat. Having one or two in the deck that hits players instead of nuke creatures and is capable of winning the game isn't a bad thing. Moonveil can come down the turn after Utvara and kill.

I totally understand where youre coming from, but don't dismiss the potential without using it.

The problem isn't wraths, it's spot removal. Putting Worldgorger into play and having it Path'd takes me out of the game. I'd rather lose my creatures to a wrath then everything I own. In highly competitive metas, worldgorger is just begging to get me blown out. Zirilan already costs me 11 mana on average. He doesn't stick till all the removal has been used.

Sure it's a toolbox deck, but running cards that are only good with the general is the sign of a weak deck and this is supposed to be a competitive deck. Sometimes it can't be helped but in this situation, it can.

Moon veil is very dependant on my board whereas Mordant isn't. It's more consistent. Which is more important to me than occasionally getting a cool bblowout play with Moon veil.

Changeling Berserker is neat tech against removal and wrath?

The problem I have had with it is that I rarely have Zirilan untapped on someone else's turn. I didn't like it when I tried it.

I agree with the people saying it needs more rocks. Sure, you have doublers, but you have to bootstrap into them. Fire Diamond, Coldsteel Heart, and Mind Stone are where I'd start there. You need a ton of mana to have big Z do his thing AND play games with your dragons. So ramp hard, my friend. Ramp hard. As to your dragon package.. consider Mana-Charged Dragon. It's quite the political card, when it comes to alpha striking someone who's about to win the game or something out, you can find friends to help with it. I'd also want a Scroll Rack in any mono red deck, although Z gives you the luxury of library manipulation. Come to think of it. Scroll Rack + Z is really really good. Flameblast Dragon is a fireball on a stick. Seems decent. Hellkite Charger can give extra combat phases.

Have you ever considered the combos involving extra combat phases like:
- Hellkite Charger + Sword of Feast and Famine
- Aggravated Assault + Sword of Feast and Famine + Any dragon ?

What do you think about Quicksilver Amulet or Belbe's Portal as a redundancy for Sneak Attack?

With that much ramp a Dragonstorm could also be considered.

Do you think Spinerock Knoll would be reliable?