A Medomai the Ageless ninja-voltron deck, by Hallucigenia
Introduction
Bruce Wayne: You're vigilantes.
Ra's al Ghul: No, no, no. A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely.
Bruce Wayne: Which is?
Ra's al Ghul: Legend, Mr. Wayne.
This is a WU deck that focuses on quick, cost-effective creatures with handy triggered abilities when they slap your opponent. This is driven into overdrive with a voltron theme and Strionic Resonator. This deck will come out quick, hit hard, keep your hand full and recover quickly from board wipe. Unlike, say, Feverous's Isamaru List, this is not as explosive out of the gate as some voltron builds, but keeps pace in multiplayer without compromising too strongly on speed or power.
I’ll be updating this deck as I get the chance to play it, but for the time being I’ll put up the list. Let me know what you guys think, and again, your advice is appreciated.
I don't get it. Why the Ninja theme? Just curious.
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BGJumpin' JaradsGB BB Furry Rat Lady: The Deck BB UU I Don't Ever Want To Explain How Knowledge Pool Works Ever Again UU RR This Is My Suika Cosplay Lightning Bolt Deck RR WW Mangara exiles both permanents and friends RWG Marath Sunforger RWG WUBRG Cromat and Friends WUBRG
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Well, obviously there are only two actual ninja in the deck... It's just a general term for small creatures that do things when they hit the opponent. Abusing these creatures (getting through / double strike / Resonator) overlaps with abusing Medomai.
I've had this discussion a couple times, and I'm really not convinced at all:
1. A 4/4 Hexproof for 5CC in a voltron deck is perfectly good;
2. You're not supposed to be emptying your hand in a voltron deck anyway. I've played Lone Revenant in another deck with a moderate creature base, and what I've instead found is that he holds the front line on his own, both in terms of power and hand crafting, while you hoard other creatures in your hand to bait the wrath.
3. The reversal of 2 is that if you have buffed creatures out front, he's a nice card to have in your hand if you're expecting that wrath.
That said, one of the things I'll be playtesting for is to see if I can get away with a smaller creature base. As is, I think the ratio of creatures to equipment is a bit high, but I hate getting stuck with no bodies. Maybe more manlands to solve that...
Also, if there was ever a deck that could ACTUALLY USE the -1 ability of Venser, the Sojourner to great effect, it's THIS ONE. Bident of Thasa seems great too, adding another attack trigger and clearing away potential blockers by forcing an attack. Finally, running a card like Sleep, Cryptic Command, Turnabout or Ensare can ensure an attack gets through.
So, better Double Strike enablers, and ways to actually get your creatures through. Hope that helps.
I'm skeptical on the stamina bit. Your list looks too much like aggro to have the staying power you're talking about. I know because I play a Mono-Blue Aggro list in EDH. My curve is not that different from yours and my best guys get outclassed in long games. It only survives long games because I included good equipment, finishers, dirty tricks, and BM plays. Aside from the equipment, you seem to lack that and more.
Ok, so here's a problem with this kind of deck (mid-range) in multi-player. You'll MAYBE finish 1 opponent if you focus on him. Then what? Your guys start to get outclassed. You need a finisher.
With that in mind, may I suggest (in addition to True Conviction): Sun Quan - Assuming you like your guys to connect in large numbers, this guy is your main man. Archangel of Thune - Turns life-gain into permanent pump, sweet. This + True Conviction gets obscene quickly if you have any kind of army. Lady Gaga - Buff your team and debuff theirs? Sounds legit to me. Glory - "2W: Pick a color. Your team gains protection from that color until end of turn.". Sounds good, just need to get it in the bin first Wonder - As long as it's in the bin and you have an island, your team flies. Seems legit. Just
The problem is that you have to be able to find your finisher when you need it. So:
Intuition - If you can afford it, you can show them Wonder, Glory, and something else obnoxious like Time Warp or Lady Gaga. Bad choice #1, 2, or 3 bro?
Here's a few other thoughts: Elspeth, Sun's Champion - For her -3. Cyclonic Rift - Wreck everyone else's board. Evacuation - In theory, your creatures are cheaper than theirs, so you'll have a slight edge recovering from this. Arm With AEther - If you can connect with several of your creatures this thing is kind of absurd. All your guys become Mistblade Shinobi for the turn. It's especially anus-shattering when followed up with... Sunder - This tends to screw everyone but the guys with the best board state. Use with caution. Nearly as BM as mass LD.
I'm quite certain you like drawing cards. If so, then these may prove useful:
You'll also want to add more lands. 31 mana-producing lands is not nearly enough, even with 9 mana-facts. Take it from experience, 36 is pushing it (in a deck with a lower curve than yours but only 1 mana-fact). Even if you account for the partial mulligan rule and relatively low mana curve, it'll bite you more frequently than you'll like.
Prahv, Spires of Order - This one is pretty weak. The effect may be strong, but the mana-cost is effectively 7 to activate (6, Tap). You'll want to cut this for Kor Haven. Not quite as broad, but less than half the cost to activate. If the price tag is out of your budget, cut it entirely.
I would tend to include some more extra turn effects.
Gilded Lotus seems a bit out of place to me in this deck considering that you're trying to go the beatdown road.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Ha ha. True Conviction is very high on my 'maybe' pile, however, six mana (and three hard white) into something that doesn't even buff my smaller creatures? Admittedly, I haven't run True Conviction before, so I might be underestimating it.
The Paladin is a great idea and I'll look to include him.
Also, if there was ever a deck that could ACTUALLY USE the -1 ability of Venser, the Sojourner to great effect, it's THIS ONE.
Venser's a neat idea, if for no other reason than repeatable unblockability, and that aside, a bit of pseudo-mana acceleration in WU is always handy. At five mana, though, he's iffy.
Bident of Thasa seems great too, adding another attack trigger and clearing away potential blockers by forcing an attack. Finally, running a card like Sleep, Cryptic Command, Turnabout or Ensare can ensure an attack gets through.
Coastal Piracy didn't quite make it as the deck already has enough card draw that comes with a body, but the Bident adds an extra bit of utility that looks really tempting.
Cryptic Command is a fantastic idea and will make a good replacement, at least, for one of my counterspells, unless the UUU becomes a problem. As for stuff like Sleep, I'm hesitant about spending a card to get a successful swing versus options that are more repeatable.
It does sound as if my meta might be a bit less competitive than yours. Budget isn't a concern in my line of work, though I don't want to play beyond my metagame, which I might rate around a 6 or 7 / 10 on the spike scale (that said, none of your suggestions strike me as inappropriately powerful), and even if I have the money I don't like paying $40 for Ms. Thune or Intuition in principle, or however much they are nowadays.
By "stamina" I meant keeping the hand full throughout the game, or "not running out of steam". Absolutely it won't get as late-game absurd as a lot of ramp decks, nor would I ever hope to, but I admit the finishing power is suspect. I'd be curious to see your Sun Quan list some day!
May I ask what 'BM' means?
Finishers
Alright, I'm starting to think maybe I was a bit too hesitant about True Conviction, especially if I find room for the Archangel of Thune. And she's an excellent way to buff an army of midrange creatures. I'll see if she's dropped below $40 at my local store (and if she hasn't then I'm not going overboard). Elesh Norn is a superb idea as well, I'm surprised I hadn't thought of her. I'm an old fan of Glory and I'm equally surprised that didn't occur to me either.
Tutors
I've got so much card draw here I'd be hesitant to ALSO be spending card slots on tutor, although Ethereal Usher is, in a pinch, also synergistic even aside from the Transmute. Do you not find cards like Planar Portal a bit slow in a deck where you're drawing a lot of cards anyway?
Here's a few other thoughts...
I love the new Elspeth and will definitely try to find a slot for her. Rift is great even aside from helping my creatures get through.
Double Strike is so important I was willing to settle for the Hook even though I agree it's slow, although I've got a healthy toolbox and it can be replaceable with True Conviction.
It was actually 33 lands, not 31, and I've removed the Gildd Lotus for another Island, for 34 lands. I'll try that for now. The land-to-mana-rock ratio was one of the main concerns as I haven't built a 'Metalcraft' before and I agree replacing a couple rocks with lands might be in order.
Interesting deck design. Have you considered some of the blue Cipher cards like Stolen Identity? Double strike enablers and multiple turns would allow these cards to really shine.
BM = Bad Manners
Usually used by cry-babies to describe powerful effects and cards that they don't care to think of how to deal with. Like in french-list how they made up a rule against tucking generals, and banned humility because nobody wanted to run enchantment removal outside of their creature base.
Alright, I'm starting to think maybe I was a bit too hesitant about True Conviction, especially if I find room for the Archangel of Thune. And she's an excellent way to buff an army of midrange creatures. I'll see if she's dropped below $40 at my local store (and if she hasn't then I'm not going overboard). Elesh Norn is a superb idea as well, I'm surprised I hadn't thought of her. I'm an old fan of Glory and I'm equally surprised that didn't occur to me either.
Oh there are ways around the 3WWW casting cost. Academy Rector for one. Archangel of Thune is down to $25. If they are still asking above that, demand a price check.
Glad you approve on Glory and Elesh Norn.
I've got so much card draw here I'd be hesitant to ALSO be spending card slots on tutor, although Ethereal Usher is, in a pinch, also synergistic even aside from the Transmute. Do you not find cards like Planar Portal a bit slow in a deck where you're drawing a lot of cards anyway?
I don't count on draw power to get me my finishers. If I only have 3 in a 99 card list, that's not good odds even if I am drawing like a maniac. Library manipulation or tutoring are the ways to go.
In Aggro, Planar Portal and Ring of Three Wishes are absolutely clunky. Very handy in combo or control lists, very good. Probably a bad idea to suggest them.
Double Strike is so important I was willing to settle for the Hook even though I agree it's slow, although I've got a healthy toolbox and it can be replaceable with True Conviction.
Good call, Grappling Hook is not gonna do great work for you.
It was actually 33 lands, not 31, and I've removed the Gildd Lotus for another Island, for 34 lands. I'll try that for now. The land-to-mana-rock ratio was one of the main concerns as I haven't built a 'Metalcraft' before and I agree replacing a couple rocks with lands might be in order.
I still think you should be at 36 mana-producing lands minimum. I don't expect that I'll have my Sun Quan list up for another week and a half, but it's along the same thread as this one.
You only seem to have 2 cards with metalcraft. I'd hardly call that a list. But if you want to make sure that you hit that critical 3 artifact count, Seat of the Synod and Ancient Den are an option. They are readily tutorable with Trinket Mage and Tezzeret the Seeker. Hell, you could also throw in Darksteel Citadel if you wanted.
Also think about Ancient Tomb, well worth the pain.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Well, obviously there are only two actual ninja in the deck... It's just a general term for small creatures that do things when they hit the opponent. Abusing these creatures (getting through / double strike / Resonator) overlaps with abusing Medomai.
That clear it up?
very
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH
BGJumpin' JaradsGB BB Furry Rat Lady: The Deck BB UU I Don't Ever Want To Explain How Knowledge Pool Works Ever Again UU RR This Is My Suika Cosplay Lightning Bolt Deck RR WW Mangara exiles both permanents and friends RWG Marath Sunforger RWG WUBRG Cromat and Friends WUBRG
--
Interesting deck design. Have you considered some of the blue Cipher cards like Stolen Identity? Double strike enablers and multiple turns would allow these cards to really shine.
This is a really cool, really fun idea. The 6+ mana slots are starting to get pretty tight, but I'll put it in the good ideas pile. Thanks bud.
On second thought, something like Hands of Binding might be really nice tempo in this deck, and keep annoying blockers tapped down to pave the way for Medomai and gang. It wasn't powerful, but I really do like Cipher.
Definitely not worth the money unless I get at least another expensive enchantment in there, and no, I'm not really in the mood to stray off-theme with Rector-Omniscience.
I was playing some Proliferate-happy deck for Zendikar/Scars Standard at the time and, on a whim, I put One-Shot Robot on the SB as a joke. Something like round 2 or 3 of FNM, I get paired against a kid playing "Holy Armor". You know, that old deck using Quest for the Holy Relic to cheat in an absurdly early Argentum Armor, equipped. I'm not overly worried, cuz this kid looks kinda new to the deck and the game in general. Probably borrowing a friend's deck. For whatever reason, the game goes long and I find myself staring down the barrel of TWO equipped armors (Squadron Hawk and Kor Outfitter) with no creatures. I draw my card (One-Shot Robot) and look down at my board barely interested because he's got me dead to rights. I proliferate 2-3 times and played the golem.
"Blightsteel, go."
The kid untaps, draws his card (bricked I guess) and says
"Attack, kill your guy," indicating his ArmoredKor Outfitter.
"... He'll shake it off and block." I said, more than a little confused.
"What?!"
"It's indestructible."
"IT'S INDESTRUCTIBLE?!?!?!" He asked, practically yelling.
"Yeah, read the card. You wanna take that back?"
So he takes back the attack and ships the turn. I untap, draw, barely look at my card and serve. He blocks (naked Squadron Hawk). I look at him, again confused, before skeptically asking:
"... So trample for 10 and kill you?"
"IT HAS TRAMPLE TOO?!?!?!?!" Again practically yelling.
"Yeah, read the card. You wanna take that one back too?"
Needless to say, I won that game. Ironically I'm normally the loud one.
I swear I'm not making this up.
And the moral of the story is "Reading the card is still tech!"
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
I don't know if it has been mentioned but with all the mention of her bident maybe consider Thassa, God of the Sea? She has been a pretty good way to get guys into the opponent in my Isperia deck and might benefit you here. At the very worst she will scry every turn helping you dig.
On another note: Rings of Brighthearth - Every time I use this card, it's broken. It's Absurd with Planeswalkers and Fetch lands, and stupid with just about any other activated ability.
In your list, it works with 9 of your lands, 3 of your creatures, 2 of your non-equipment artifacts (including Strionic Resonator), and Jitte activations. It also can copy Transmute/Cycling, and a lot of other abilities you get from copy/steal effects.
Had you thought about Tolaria West? I find this card invaluable in any EDH list with blue in it. Being able to tutor up a utility land has won me games.
Omega's Brain-Pain corner:
Ok, try to run through this math in your head.
You have Strionic Resonator and Rings of Brighthearth on the board.
You activate an ability. Rings triggers and you want to pay it.
You activate Resonator to copy Rings trigger. Rings triggers again and you pay it.
What happens?
How many copies of the activated ability can you make?
How much mana would that require?
How would this change with the addition of a Clock of Omens and no other artifacts?
What if it was a Voltaic Key instead?
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
I intend to make a deck like this. Have you considered Balshan Beguiler? You can potentially doom one player to turn after turn of land draws. It's not obscenely powerful. Just cute.
I intend to make a deck like this. Have you considered Balshan Beguiler? You can potentially doom one player to turn after turn of land draws. It's not obscenely powerful. Just cute.
Pity it's so lackluster in multiplayer. In 1v1, that is anus-shattering.
Omega's Brain-Pain corner:
Ok, try to run through this math in your head.
You have Strionic Resonator and Rings of Brighthearth on the board.
You activate an ability. Rings triggers and you want to pay it.
You activate Resonator to copy Rings trigger. Rings triggers again and you pay it.
What happens?
How many copies of the activated ability can you make?
How much mana would that require?
How would this change with the addition of a Clock of Omens and no other artifacts?
What if it was a Voltaic Key instead?
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Valid, and I would take it even further and leave out Voltaic Key. It's easy to be greedy with effects that push your concept, and maybe that slot could be taken up by something that will smoothen your game instead of something that may grant you more triggers. I'm a fan of Burnished Hart.
Valid, and I would take it even further and leave out Voltaic Key. It's easy to be greedy with effects that push your concept, and maybe that slot could be taken up by something that will smoothen your game instead of something that may grant you more triggers. I'm a fan of Burnished Hart.
The point of my "Brain-Pain" thing wasn't to suggest adopting all the cards mentioned. I wanted to see if anyone would think it through.
It's just something I brought up at my new game shop to some amusement. I thought I'd mention it here.
And yes, Burnished Hart is pretty interesting from a ramp perspective. It costs 3 twice, but you can block or attack with it between. I had a mana-screwed opponent at the prerelease and hit his Hart with Last Breath to keep him off the accel.
How many copies of the activated ability can you make?
3 copies + original
How much mana would that require?
10
How would this change with the addition of a Clock of Omens and no other artifacts?
This would permit an additional 2 untaps (tap Clock + Rings to untap Resonator and copy untap with Rings) of Resonator which would in turn allow for up to 4 additional copies of the ability. It would also cost an additional 18 assuming my math is accurate.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
I don't know if it has been mentioned but with all the mention of her bident maybe consider Thassa, God of the Sea?
Hi esoteric. I have been comparing her in my mind to Sun Quan, Lord of Wu as another source of mass evasion in this deck. There are upsides and downsides in this comparison:
+ She's cheaper.
+ Bit of deck crafting is always nice. Scry 1 every turn is actually absurdly powerful in my opinion.
+ Unblockability is slightly better than Horsemanship (you see horsemen in my meta here and there)
- She probably won't ever have an equippable body in this deck (then again I think I have enough creatures)
- You gotta pay to do it, which can make the difference between "I win this round" and the opponent stabilizing.
On another note: Rings of Brighthearth - Every time I use this card, it's broken. It's Absurd with Planeswalkers and Fetch lands, and stupid with just about any other activated ability.
It's all I can do to not put the Rings in every single deck I have, but it's just too off-theme here.
I intend to make a deck like this. Have you considered Balshan Beguiler? You can potentially doom one player to turn after turn of land draws. It's not obscenely powerful. Just cute.
Beguiler is a very cute card, and I think (from my experience using Thoughtpicker Witch in my Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker deck) that there's a lot of power here. But that said, there's no built-in evasion, it's three mana, it inconveniences one player at a time (when my meta is 100% multiplayer) and it doesn't even do much of that if they're playing reanimator. Just doesn't quite make it. Great suggestion though.
By the way, I managed to get two games in before I left for the field. The deck did very, very well. I won one out of two games.
Game 1 ----
I won the first game largely with a decently-early Medomai, with Stonehewer out and a buffed-out Mistblade Shinobi. The Mistblade alone had been shutting down the poor Omnath player, while the Reaper King (changeling/ally/sliver) player dealt with a slow start.
Anyway, I declare attack, and the Sliver player, knowing I'm gonna start dealing with him, taps down the Shinobi and Stonehewer with his Telekinetic Sliver and buddies, knowing Medomai has summoning sickness. Unfortunately, he forgot the Stonehewer can give Medomai haste at instant speed, and so he gets through on the Omnath player, netting en extra turn. On this turn I could smack the Omnath player with a hasted Sphinx Ambassdor, and out came the indestructible Eldrazi. I then wrathed and won in a couple turns.
Game 2 ----
I accelerated into an early Lone Revenant, and enchanted him with a Thassa's Emissary for a huge amount of pressure and hand-crafting. Knowing I would have the crab left even if they manage to wrath, I hoarded equips, and sure enough I was pounding away with it after a Supreme Verdict. Eventually my friends managed to stabilize and hate me off the board, but the deck did well twice, which is what counts.
That said, this might be an early sign that this deck will need more oomph so I'm not dithering when I could be finishing things. Argentum Armor and Archangel of Thune are definite adds when I get home.
A Medomai the Ageless ninja-voltron deck, by Hallucigenia
Introduction
This is a WU deck that focuses on quick, cost-effective creatures with handy triggered abilities when they slap your opponent. This is driven into overdrive with a voltron theme and Strionic Resonator. This deck will come out quick, hit hard, keep your hand full and recover quickly from board wipe. Unlike, say, Feverous's Isamaru List, this is not as explosive out of the gate as some voltron builds, but keeps pace in multiplayer without compromising too strongly on speed or power.
6 Medomai the Ageless
Creatures (23)
2 Puresteel Paladin
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Augury Adept
3 Burnished Hart
3 Cephalid Constable
3 Daxos of Meletis
3 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
3 Mistblade Shinobi
3 Silverblade Paladin
3 Soltari Visionary
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
4 Lone Revenant
4 Lu Xun, Scholar General
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thassa's Emissary
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Blinding Angel
5 Stonehewer Giant
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Sovereigns of Lost Alara
6 Sun Titan
7 Sphinx Ambassador
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Sorcery (5)
1 Steelshaper's Gift
3 Fabricate
4 Day of Judgment
4 Supreme Verdict
6 Austere Command
2 Counterspell
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Muddle the Mixture
3 Capsize
3 Dissolve
3 Spell Crumple
4 Cryptic Command
4 Dismiss
4 Return to Dust
Enchantments (6)
2 Darksteel Mutation
3 Battle Mastery
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Angelic Destiny
4 Protective Bubble
6 True Conviction
Equipment (11)
2 Empyrial Plate
2 Nim Deathmantle
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Darksteel Plate
3 Fireshrieker
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Whispersilk Cloak
4 Haunted Platemail
6 Argentum Armor
Artifacts (3)
1 Dispeller's Capsule
2 Strionic Resonator
3 Sculpting Steel
1 Sol Ring
2 Azorius Keyrune
2 Azorius Signet
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Guardian Idol
3 Thunder Totem
Lands (35)
1 Ancient Den
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Bant Panorama
1 Boreal Shelf
1 Buried Ruin
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Esper Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Homeward Path
1 Inkmoth Nexus
9 Island
7 Plains
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Rogue’s Passage
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Sejiri Refuge
1 Stalking Stones
1 Terramorphic Expanse
Maybepile
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Hypnotic Siren
1 Bident of Thassa
I’ll be updating this deck as I get the chance to play it, but for the time being I’ll put up the list. Let me know what you guys think, and again, your advice is appreciated.
Stay thirsty, my friends!
Update Log
09/23/2013
Grappling Hook -> True Conviction
Etherium Sculptor -> Silverblade Paladin
Thassa's Emissary -> Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Bruna, Light of Alabaster -> Cyclonic Rift
10/15/2013
Geist of Saint Traft -> Dissolve
Drogskol Reaver -> Argentum Armor
Fieldmist Borderpost -> Burnished Hart
Plains -> Ancient Den
Island -> Darksteel Citadel
12/29/2013
Sturmgeist -> Dismiss
Kor Sanctifiers -> Capsize
Righteous Authority -> Darksteel Mutation
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
BG Jumpin' JaradsGB
BB Furry Rat Lady: The Deck BB
UU I Don't Ever Want To Explain How Knowledge Pool Works Ever Again UU
RR This Is My Suika Cosplay Lightning Bolt Deck RR
WW Mangara exiles both permanents and friends
RWG Marath Sunforger RWG
WUBRG Cromat and Friends WUBRG
--
BG Savra, Rocking Attrition (retired) GB
BB">Shauku, Envoy of the End (retired) BB
BU Wrexial, the Tentacled H beast(retired)UB
BB Endrek Sahr, Master Commander (retired )BB
UU [PRIMER] Talrand's Terrible Tempo Terror Teatime (retired) UU
UBW Senator Trio - Three Heads Are Better Than One (retired) UBW
BB MONSTRUAL BLEEDING EREBOS SADISM (retired) BB
That clear it up?
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I've had this discussion a couple times, and I'm really not convinced at all:
1. A 4/4 Hexproof for 5CC in a voltron deck is perfectly good;
2. You're not supposed to be emptying your hand in a voltron deck anyway. I've played Lone Revenant in another deck with a moderate creature base, and what I've instead found is that he holds the front line on his own, both in terms of power and hand crafting, while you hoard other creatures in your hand to bait the wrath.
3. The reversal of 2 is that if you have buffed creatures out front, he's a nice card to have in your hand if you're expecting that wrath.
That said, one of the things I'll be playtesting for is to see if I can get away with a smaller creature base. As is, I think the ratio of creatures to equipment is a bit high, but I hate getting stuck with no bodies. Maybe more manlands to solve that...
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Silverblade Paladin would also be a good fit.
Also, if there was ever a deck that could ACTUALLY USE the -1 ability of Venser, the Sojourner to great effect, it's THIS ONE. Bident of Thasa seems great too, adding another attack trigger and clearing away potential blockers by forcing an attack. Finally, running a card like Sleep, Cryptic Command, Turnabout or Ensare can ensure an attack gets through.
So, better Double Strike enablers, and ways to actually get your creatures through. Hope that helps.
Currently 62/265 cards.
I'm skeptical on the stamina bit. Your list looks too much like aggro to have the staying power you're talking about. I know because I play a Mono-Blue Aggro list in EDH. My curve is not that different from yours and my best guys get outclassed in long games. It only survives long games because I included good equipment, finishers, dirty tricks, and BM plays. Aside from the equipment, you seem to lack that and more.
Agreed, these are good includes.
Ok, so here's a problem with this kind of deck (mid-range) in multi-player. You'll MAYBE finish 1 opponent if you focus on him. Then what? Your guys start to get outclassed. You need a finisher.
With that in mind, may I suggest (in addition to True Conviction):
Sun Quan - Assuming you like your guys to connect in large numbers, this guy is your main man.
Archangel of Thune - Turns life-gain into permanent pump, sweet. This + True Conviction gets obscene quickly if you have any kind of army.
Lady Gaga - Buff your team and debuff theirs? Sounds legit to me.
Glory - "2W: Pick a color. Your team gains protection from that color until end of turn.". Sounds good, just need to get it in the bin first
Wonder - As long as it's in the bin and you have an island, your team flies. Seems legit. Just
The problem is that you have to be able to find your finisher when you need it. So:
Intuition - If you can afford it, you can show them Wonder, Glory, and something else obnoxious like Time Warp or Lady Gaga. Bad choice #1, 2, or 3 bro?
Here's a few other thoughts:
Elspeth, Sun's Champion - For her -3.
Cyclonic Rift - Wreck everyone else's board.
Evacuation - In theory, your creatures are cheaper than theirs, so you'll have a slight edge recovering from this.
Arm With AEther - If you can connect with several of your creatures this thing is kind of absurd. All your guys become Mistblade Shinobi for the turn. It's especially anus-shattering when followed up with...
Sunder - This tends to screw everyone but the guys with the best board state. Use with caution. Nearly as BM as mass LD.
I'm quite certain you like drawing cards. If so, then these may prove useful:
Cut Grappling Hook, it's WAY TOO SLOW at 4 + 4.
You'll also want to add more lands. 31 mana-producing lands is not nearly enough, even with 9 mana-facts. Take it from experience, 36 is pushing it (in a deck with a lower curve than yours but only 1 mana-fact). Even if you account for the partial mulligan rule and relatively low mana curve, it'll bite you more frequently than you'll like.
Prahv, Spires of Order - This one is pretty weak. The effect may be strong, but the mana-cost is effectively 7 to activate (6, Tap). You'll want to cut this for Kor Haven. Not quite as broad, but less than half the cost to activate. If the price tag is out of your budget, cut it entirely.
I would tend to include some more extra turn effects.
Gilded Lotus seems a bit out of place to me in this deck considering that you're trying to go the beatdown road.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Ha ha. True Conviction is very high on my 'maybe' pile, however, six mana (and three hard white) into something that doesn't even buff my smaller creatures? Admittedly, I haven't run True Conviction before, so I might be underestimating it.
The Paladin is a great idea and I'll look to include him.
Venser's a neat idea, if for no other reason than repeatable unblockability, and that aside, a bit of pseudo-mana acceleration in WU is always handy. At five mana, though, he's iffy.
Coastal Piracy didn't quite make it as the deck already has enough card draw that comes with a body, but the Bident adds an extra bit of utility that looks really tempting.
Cryptic Command is a fantastic idea and will make a good replacement, at least, for one of my counterspells, unless the UUU becomes a problem. As for stuff like Sleep, I'm hesitant about spending a card to get a successful swing versus options that are more repeatable.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
It does sound as if my meta might be a bit less competitive than yours. Budget isn't a concern in my line of work, though I don't want to play beyond my metagame, which I might rate around a 6 or 7 / 10 on the spike scale (that said, none of your suggestions strike me as inappropriately powerful), and even if I have the money I don't like paying $40 for Ms. Thune or Intuition in principle, or however much they are nowadays.
By "stamina" I meant keeping the hand full throughout the game, or "not running out of steam". Absolutely it won't get as late-game absurd as a lot of ramp decks, nor would I ever hope to, but I admit the finishing power is suspect. I'd be curious to see your Sun Quan list some day!
May I ask what 'BM' means?
Alright, I'm starting to think maybe I was a bit too hesitant about True Conviction, especially if I find room for the Archangel of Thune. And she's an excellent way to buff an army of midrange creatures. I'll see if she's dropped below $40 at my local store (and if she hasn't then I'm not going overboard). Elesh Norn is a superb idea as well, I'm surprised I hadn't thought of her. I'm an old fan of Glory and I'm equally surprised that didn't occur to me either.
I've got so much card draw here I'd be hesitant to ALSO be spending card slots on tutor, although Ethereal Usher is, in a pinch, also synergistic even aside from the Transmute. Do you not find cards like Planar Portal a bit slow in a deck where you're drawing a lot of cards anyway?
I love the new Elspeth and will definitely try to find a slot for her. Rift is great even aside from helping my creatures get through.
Double Strike is so important I was willing to settle for the Hook even though I agree it's slow, although I've got a healthy toolbox and it can be replaceable with True Conviction.
It was actually 33 lands, not 31, and I've removed the Gildd Lotus for another Island, for 34 lands. I'll try that for now. The land-to-mana-rock ratio was one of the main concerns as I haven't built a 'Metalcraft' before and I agree replacing a couple rocks with lands might be in order.
Thanks again, Furnace.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
BM = Bad Manners
Usually used by cry-babies to describe powerful effects and cards that they don't care to think of how to deal with. Like in french-list how they made up a rule against tucking generals, and banned humility because nobody wanted to run enchantment removal outside of their creature base.
Oh there are ways around the 3WWW casting cost. Academy Rector for one.
Archangel of Thune is down to $25. If they are still asking above that, demand a price check.
Glad you approve on Glory and Elesh Norn.
I don't count on draw power to get me my finishers. If I only have 3 in a 99 card list, that's not good odds even if I am drawing like a maniac. Library manipulation or tutoring are the ways to go.
In Aggro, Planar Portal and Ring of Three Wishes are absolutely clunky. Very handy in combo or control lists, very good. Probably a bad idea to suggest them.
Good call, Grappling Hook is not gonna do great work for you.
I still think you should be at 36 mana-producing lands minimum. I don't expect that I'll have my Sun Quan list up for another week and a half, but it's along the same thread as this one.
You only seem to have 2 cards with metalcraft. I'd hardly call that a list. But if you want to make sure that you hit that critical 3 artifact count, Seat of the Synod and Ancient Den are an option. They are readily tutorable with Trinket Mage and Tezzeret the Seeker. Hell, you could also throw in Darksteel Citadel if you wanted.
Also think about Ancient Tomb, well worth the pain.
Factual Error:
Indomitable Archangel is 4 mana, not 3
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
very
BG Jumpin' JaradsGB
BB Furry Rat Lady: The Deck BB
UU I Don't Ever Want To Explain How Knowledge Pool Works Ever Again UU
RR This Is My Suika Cosplay Lightning Bolt Deck RR
WW Mangara exiles both permanents and friends
RWG Marath Sunforger RWG
WUBRG Cromat and Friends WUBRG
--
BG Savra, Rocking Attrition (retired) GB
BB">Shauku, Envoy of the End (retired) BB
BU Wrexial, the Tentacled H beast(retired)UB
BB Endrek Sahr, Master Commander (retired )BB
UU [PRIMER] Talrand's Terrible Tempo Terror Teatime (retired) UU
UBW Senator Trio - Three Heads Are Better Than One (retired) UBW
BB MONSTRUAL BLEEDING EREBOS SADISM (retired) BB
This is a really cool, really fun idea. The 6+ mana slots are starting to get pretty tight, but I'll put it in the good ideas pile. Thanks bud.
On second thought, something like Hands of Binding might be really nice tempo in this deck, and keep annoying blockers tapped down to pave the way for Medomai and gang. It wasn't powerful, but I really do like Cipher.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Aha, figured it must mean something like that. We've got a couple pretty mean decks in our meta so we're not oversensitive.
What's your opinion of Argentum Armor as a finisher, given the presence of cheaters like Stonehewer Giant and Puresteel Paladin? Not to mention it's colourless removal?
Definitely not worth the money unless I get at least another expensive enchantment in there, and no, I'm not really in the mood to stray off-theme with Rector-Omniscience.
There's an interesting discussion in the main forum at least partially about tutor vs. card draw. I'm inclined to agree with those who like a balance of efficient tutors (in my case, some nice Transmute cards) and card draw for midrange.
Didn't realize I don't have Ancient Den and Darksteel Citadel in here, thanks. Also fixed the mana cost on the archangel.
You've been very helpful, I appreciate it.
---
Changes from my collection, until I do some store browsing:
Grappling Hook -> True Conviction
Etherium Sculptor -> Silverblade Paladin (not all that many artifacts... so far)
Ninja of the Deep Hours -> Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (I've got plenty of magpies as-is... deck needs more oomph)
Bruna, Light of Alabaster -> Cyclonic Rift (not enough auras on my own, not terribly likely to steal a conscription)
Condescend -> Cryptic Command (the UUU makes me nervous, but the tapping effect is too good in this deck)
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Sounds like fun. It'll definitely give you some reach and removal. The equip cost, as always is a pain, but if you have Puresteel, the price is right.
If you really wanna go for a BM play, put Godhead of Awe in here to go with Lady Gaga.
I was playing some Proliferate-happy deck for Zendikar/Scars Standard at the time and, on a whim, I put One-Shot Robot on the SB as a joke. Something like round 2 or 3 of FNM, I get paired against a kid playing "Holy Armor". You know, that old deck using Quest for the Holy Relic to cheat in an absurdly early Argentum Armor, equipped. I'm not overly worried, cuz this kid looks kinda new to the deck and the game in general. Probably borrowing a friend's deck. For whatever reason, the game goes long and I find myself staring down the barrel of TWO equipped armors (Squadron Hawk and Kor Outfitter) with no creatures. I draw my card (One-Shot Robot) and look down at my board barely interested because he's got me dead to rights. I proliferate 2-3 times and played the golem.
"Blightsteel, go."
The kid untaps, draws his card (bricked I guess) and says
"Attack, kill your guy," indicating his Armored Kor Outfitter.
"... He'll shake it off and block." I said, more than a little confused.
"What?!"
"It's indestructible."
"IT'S INDESTRUCTIBLE?!?!?!" He asked, practically yelling.
"Yeah, read the card. You wanna take that back?"
So he takes back the attack and ships the turn. I untap, draw, barely look at my card and serve. He blocks (naked Squadron Hawk). I look at him, again confused, before skeptically asking:
"... So trample for 10 and kill you?"
"IT HAS TRAMPLE TOO?!?!?!?!" Again practically yelling.
"Yeah, read the card. You wanna take that one back too?"
Needless to say, I won that game. Ironically I'm normally the loud one.
I swear I'm not making this up.
And the moral of the story is "Reading the card is still tech!"
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
On another note:
Rings of Brighthearth - Every time I use this card, it's broken. It's Absurd with Planeswalkers and Fetch lands, and stupid with just about any other activated ability.
In your list, it works with 9 of your lands, 3 of your creatures, 2 of your non-equipment artifacts (including Strionic Resonator), and Jitte activations. It also can copy Transmute/Cycling, and a lot of other abilities you get from copy/steal effects.
Had you thought about Tolaria West? I find this card invaluable in any EDH list with blue in it. Being able to tutor up a utility land has won me games.
Voltaic Key / Clock of Omens might also be amusing to untap your resonator for extra ability copies.
Omega's Brain-Pain corner:
Ok, try to run through this math in your head.
You have Strionic Resonator and Rings of Brighthearth on the board.
You activate an ability.
Rings triggers and you want to pay it.
You activate Resonator to copy Rings trigger.
Rings triggers again and you pay it.
What happens?
How many copies of the activated ability can you make?
How much mana would that require?
How would this change with the addition of a Clock of Omens and no other artifacts?
What if it was a Voltaic Key instead?
Answers to come in a later post.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Augustin, Rasputin, Bruna, Brago, Ojutai
Pity it's so lackluster in multiplayer. In 1v1, that is anus-shattering.
Any thoughts people?
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Valid, and I would take it even further and leave out Voltaic Key. It's easy to be greedy with effects that push your concept, and maybe that slot could be taken up by something that will smoothen your game instead of something that may grant you more triggers. I'm a fan of Burnished Hart.
Augustin, Rasputin, Bruna, Brago, Ojutai
The point of my "Brain-Pain" thing wasn't to suggest adopting all the cards mentioned. I wanted to see if anyone would think it through.
It's just something I brought up at my new game shop to some amusement. I thought I'd mention it here.
And yes, Burnished Hart is pretty interesting from a ramp perspective. It costs 3 twice, but you can block or attack with it between. I had a mana-screwed opponent at the prerelease and hit his Hart with Last Breath to keep him off the accel.
How many copies of the activated ability can you make?
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Hi esoteric. I have been comparing her in my mind to Sun Quan, Lord of Wu as another source of mass evasion in this deck. There are upsides and downsides in this comparison:
+ She's cheaper.
+ Bit of deck crafting is always nice. Scry 1 every turn is actually absurdly powerful in my opinion.
+ Unblockability is slightly better than Horsemanship (you see horsemen in my meta here and there)
- She probably won't ever have an equippable body in this deck (then again I think I have enough creatures)
- You gotta pay to do it, which can make the difference between "I win this round" and the opponent stabilizing.
I'll be thinking about this.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
It's all I can do to not put the Rings in every single deck I have, but it's just too off-theme here.
Beguiler is a very cute card, and I think (from my experience using Thoughtpicker Witch in my Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker deck) that there's a lot of power here. But that said, there's no built-in evasion, it's three mana, it inconveniences one player at a time (when my meta is 100% multiplayer) and it doesn't even do much of that if they're playing reanimator. Just doesn't quite make it. Great suggestion though.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Game 1 ----
I won the first game largely with a decently-early Medomai, with Stonehewer out and a buffed-out Mistblade Shinobi. The Mistblade alone had been shutting down the poor Omnath player, while the Reaper King (changeling/ally/sliver) player dealt with a slow start.
Anyway, I declare attack, and the Sliver player, knowing I'm gonna start dealing with him, taps down the Shinobi and Stonehewer with his Telekinetic Sliver and buddies, knowing Medomai has summoning sickness. Unfortunately, he forgot the Stonehewer can give Medomai haste at instant speed, and so he gets through on the Omnath player, netting en extra turn. On this turn I could smack the Omnath player with a hasted Sphinx Ambassdor, and out came the indestructible Eldrazi. I then wrathed and won in a couple turns.
Game 2 ----
I accelerated into an early Lone Revenant, and enchanted him with a Thassa's Emissary for a huge amount of pressure and hand-crafting. Knowing I would have the crab left even if they manage to wrath, I hoarded equips, and sure enough I was pounding away with it after a Supreme Verdict. Eventually my friends managed to stabilize and hate me off the board, but the deck did well twice, which is what counts.
That said, this might be an early sign that this deck will need more oomph so I'm not dithering when I could be finishing things. Argentum Armor and Archangel of Thune are definite adds when I get home.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Geist of Saint Traft -> Dissolve
Drogskol Reaver -> Argentum Armor
Fieldmist Borderpost -> Burnished Hart
Plains -> Ancient Den
Island -> Darksteel Citadel
As luck would NOT have it, there were no Archangel of Thunes in and Elspeth, Sun's Champion is, apparently, $40 (no thanks).
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty