Cool thanks! People kind of hate me for time walking because I play Wanderer :X I've been looking around at other Edric decks to see what they take instead of time walks if they don't take any.
Cool thanks! People kind of hate me for time walking because I play Wanderer :X I've been looking around at other Edric decks to see what they take instead of time walks if they don't take any.
Why not play loads of unblockable and shadow creatures. I really like that idea with Edric...
From my experience, a creature with flying is as good as unblockable, especially how early we play them. Not many opponents are likely to have a flying blocker in play in the first few turns. Also, I do run as many unblockable creatures as I can, this includes Triton Shorestalker, and landwalkers such as Grayscaled Gharial/Marsh Boa. I'm guessing you're referring to creatures such as Invisible Stalker and Looter il-Kor? I used to run them, but Wizards kept printing new one cmc flyers, which replaced them, as these are just more effective imo. This deck wants to drop creatures as quick as possible to win and I've been trying to lower my curve over time to do so.
I can't afford a Gaea's Cradle, so Crop Rotation's function was mainly to grab Reliquary Tower. However, over the course of playing the deck, I've cared less and less about having access to a maximum hand size as I don't really mind discarding everything but counterspells and win cons when the deck gets going. So I'm going to cut both. Blinkmoth Nexus too, has become more of a liability than a plus lately, as coloured mana is so important in this deck. I'm still going to continue running Mutavault though, as it has cool interactions within the deck, mainly acting as another Rouge to trigger Prowl. Lastly, Wonder has been in my chopping board for quite some time now, and it finally gets the axe too.
Notes: Since tucking a Commander is no longer a thing, just making a slight change to the counter magic suite. Although Envelop is quite narrow, the main thing this deck wants to counter is Wraths. Spell Syphon however, should be at least a Mana Leak in this deck most of the time. Overall, a good update for Edric.
Have you thought about Foil? You're gonna have way too many cards in hand anyways, and its a lot cheaper than a real FoW.
Yeah, I actually did consider Foil a while back, but having an Island AND another card kinda put me off, even if I'm probably going to meet the requirement like 80% of the time. If either of the newadditions don't work out, I'll look to Daze & Foil. Thanks for reminding me of the card though, I'll add it to my Maybeboard
Given you had access to any timewalk effects you wanted (no budget restrictions), which ones would you use and in place of which cards? Sweet deck, btw.
I personally drop orb when people are mostly tapped out. It acts as a psuedo-time walk, especially when combined with Gaea's Cradle and Orochi Hatchery to continue dropping some threats.
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Orb is definitely a card that needs a few tries before you get feeling of "when". Personally I like it right after a prowled Notorious Throng but any critical mass of creatures will do. The way I see it is if my opponents play draw-go for a few rounds, it's kind of like a 2 mana multiple time warp. By the time they have mana for wrath (barring cheap ones like Pyroclasm but who plays that?), they are either dead or close to it and by that time they have the mana, they have to hope it resolves (which it shouldn't with the free counters/draw we have).
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@Toonamiguy, how much - in your opinion - is the tax package (Orb&Wire) needed in a deck like this and when it's best used? I mean, Tangle Wire is just a minor nuisance, gaining tempo early-mid game, but super lame late game. Orb, on the other hand, as great as it may seem, kind of locks us from chaining extra turns effectively. Could you please share your experiences with those two cards? Any tips?
Sorry for the late reply, travelling right now. Thanks @foxoftherock for stepping in.
I didn't run Tangle Wire and Winter Orb in the deck for a very long time, and then I decided to test them out, and they aren't really in any fear of being cut. For this deck, there isn't really a "late game", or at least there shouldn't be, unless something went very wrong. The two cards are generally used as disruption so that your opponents are unable to cast a wrath (or anything else of relevance) until you're able to win the game. Tangle Wire affects everyone else more than it does you, as you always stack it so you take a counter off it before tapping things, plus, you tap the artifact itself. Winter Orb is harder to play around, but honestly, once you have like 4-5 creatures out, and you're drawing like 5-6 cards a turn, you don't really need to cast much else. Drop the Winter Orb, leave the rest of your mana untapped, and in a turn or two you should be able to cast a Time Warp or whatever. Note that we also have things like mana elves, Lotus Cobra, Exploration, etc, that counteract the negative effects of Winter Orb. I also recently acquired a Gaea's Cradle that should make it even better. Basically what I'm trying to say is even though at times it may stop you from chaining extra turns - it's going to hinder other people more than it's going to hinder you - helping you to win the game. It also makes things like Spell Pierce and Mana Leak better :P.
Tldr version: If you have the ability to chain extra turns, you're going to win anyway. These cards just help you get there when you're not in such a position.
Hope my reply helps. Feel free to ask any other questions
I've been thinking about adding a few bounce spells (Chain of Vapor, Turbulent Dreams, and/or Void Snare) to combat the few problematic permanents like Ghostly Prison, Silent Arbiter and it's ilk. My area isn't meta-gaming against this deck (yet, I have about 10 decks to cycle through) so it's not like they are specifically for Edric, just would like a plan for it in case it happens. Thoughts? (And by extension, do we just wait out Glacial Chasm?)
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I've been thinking about adding a few bounce spells (Chain of Vapor, Turbulent Dreams, and/or Void Snare) to combat the few problematic permanents like Ghostly Prison, Silent Arbiter and it's ilk. My area isn't meta-gaming against this deck (yet, I have about 10 decks to cycle through) so it's not like they are specifically for Edric, just would like a plan for it in case it happens. Thoughts? (And by extension, do we just wait out Glacial Chasm?)
As @gma said, it is quite meta-dependent, if you feel the need to run more answers, then you should. I used to run Beast Within before I made room for Chain of Vapor. I've also considered adding things like Snap, Submerge and Rite of Undoing to the deck. I don't really like the sorcery speed ones. Can always counter such spells too.
As for Glacial Chasm - I'm glad I don't see the card too often. If it were played against me, I suppose I'd just keep attacking other players to draw cards and wait it out with a hand full of counterspells.
@Toonamiguy: I might have expected too much of these two cards. I'll test more with them. What about Skullclamp and Bident of Thassa? Now, that Edric is untuckable, do we still need these? I mean Skullclamp hinders your boardstate and is quite mana hungry early and mid game. Bident, on the other hand, has the great utility of opening the field for us but still seems win more to me. I used to have them in my 99, but they didn't come up, so I never really missed them, but I might be mistaken, so could you please voice your opinion on them?
Uh, makes me feel stupid for not realizing I don't need Bident of Thassa anymore now that Edric can't be tucked lol. You're right, it's going to get the axe in the next update. I can see Skullclamp going too.
I'm probably going to make the update in 10-12 days, since I don't have too much time right now, but it should go something like -1 Bident of Thassa, -1 Skullclamp, -1 Forest, +1 Gaea's Cradle, +1 Crop Rotation, and one more card that I'm not sure about yet.
Thanks for pointing it out though, haven't really played much since the last update.
Have you tried/considered Rising Waters? I have a list very similar to yours and it has been an all star. Usually casting it when everyone else has all lands tapped ends up with everyone conceding
I already run Winter Orb, however I don't think I need a second one that costs 4 CMC. Thanks for the suggestion though, I'll add it to the list of "other considerations".
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Well, since you're running your fair share of mana dorks, I'm thinking you can test Honored Hierarch. Personally, I don't run any mana dorks in my build, but if you already do, then what better than a one-drop that has the possibility of becoming a 2/2 flightless Birds of Paradise?
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What do we think about Jace, Vryn's Prodigy? Doesn't have to attack to draw, and when he flips he can re-buy a Time Warp. Maybe it's too cute, but I see some promise here.
I've been playing a lot with Edric and there are two cards from your maybeboard that have been all stars for me:
Craterhoof Behemoth is well... no need to talk about this guy. The fact that it can be tutored via Green Sun's Zenith is just a bonus. I've had dealt 29 damage with very few creatures to end up casting Notorious Throng and filling up the table with tokens.
but the real allstar is Druids' Repository. In a normal case scenario, where you cast Edric on turn 3 with two creatures behind, you cast the Repository on turn 4, attack with Edric and the other two creatures and the enchantment cost is paid. After that, everything is a bonus! You can swing, use the mana from the enchantment to cast whatever you want and leave the lands untapped for counters
The reason Craterhoof Behemoth hasn't gone in yet is the same reason Time Stretch got cut, they just cost so much mana. The scenario you describe, you had enough mana to both cast Craterhoof Behemoth & Prowl Notorious Throng O_o Edric doesn't really plan to let the game run that long, although sometimes it's not up to us. I can see how Druids' Repository and cards like that would help you get there though. I like that Druids' Repository is kinda "free", but it does take up a slot in the deck. Keeping in mind that Faerie Miscreant is going in the next update, what would you cut for Craterhoof Behemoth or Druids' Repository? Does anyone else here have an opinion on either of these?
What do we think about Jace, Vryn's Prodigy? Doesn't have to attack to draw, and when he flips he can re-buy a Time Warp. Maybe it's too cute, but I see some promise here.
I don't really like him in here at all, why use a creature to loot when a creature costing half the mana can just draw a card instead? When he's flipped - his +1 isn't really great (even if it can make an 2/X an opponent control not draw a card off Edric), his -3 can be good as you said to recast a Time Walk effect, but honestly, isn't something like Noxious Revival just better? Or even Snapcaster Mage? And the Ultimate..we won't even get there, not that we want to. So yeah, I don't really think he should be considered for this deck.
Druids' Repository has been amazing for me. It literally accumulates a ton of mana. This helps cast a lot of the creatures i draw after drawing a lot of cards or helps with the counterspells because opponents see you tapped out and forget that you can get mana elsewhere.
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You just have to rely on Overrun effects such as Beastmaster Ascension & Triumph of the Hordes to win the game instead. Also, disruption in the form of Winter Orb/Tangle Wire also helps.
From my experience, a creature with flying is as good as unblockable, especially how early we play them. Not many opponents are likely to have a flying blocker in play in the first few turns. Also, I do run as many unblockable creatures as I can, this includes Triton Shorestalker, and landwalkers such as Grayscaled Gharial/Marsh Boa. I'm guessing you're referring to creatures such as Invisible Stalker and Looter il-Kor? I used to run them, but Wizards kept printing new one cmc flyers, which replaced them, as these are just more effective imo. This deck wants to drop creatures as quick as possible to win and I've been trying to lower my curve over time to do so.
-1 Reliquary Tower
-1 Blinkmoth Nexus
-1 Crop Rotation
-1 Wonder
+2 Island
+1 Spell Pierce
+1 Gudul Lurker
Notes: Dragons of Tarkir Update!
I can't afford a Gaea's Cradle, so Crop Rotation's function was mainly to grab Reliquary Tower. However, over the course of playing the deck, I've cared less and less about having access to a maximum hand size as I don't really mind discarding everything but counterspells and win cons when the deck gets going. So I'm going to cut both. Blinkmoth Nexus too, has become more of a liability than a plus lately, as coloured mana is so important in this deck. I'm still going to continue running Mutavault though, as it has cool interactions within the deck, mainly acting as another Rouge to trigger Prowl. Lastly, Wonder has been in my chopping board for quite some time now, and it finally gets the axe too.
Replacing these cards are 2 Islands, a Spell Pierce (additional cheap disruption), & Gudul Lurker (the second best creature with evasion this deck has ever received, after Triton Shorestalker).
Other considerations for this update included: Daze, Submerge, Stratus Dancer, Collected Company, & Shaman of Forgotten Ways (the latter three unlikely to ever make the cut).
-1 Hinder
-1 Spell Crumple
+1 Envelop
+1 Spell Syphon
Notes: Since tucking a Commander is no longer a thing, just making a slight change to the counter magic suite. Although Envelop is quite narrow, the main thing this deck wants to counter is Wraths. Spell Syphon however, should be at least a Mana Leak in this deck most of the time. Overall, a good update for Edric.
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I play this:
Rotation is coming...
Modern: GGGSTOMPY
ZOO (Goyf-less)
Legacy:
Brewing
EDH:
Too many to name.
Yeah, I actually did consider Foil a while back, but having an Island AND another card kinda put me off, even if I'm probably going to meet the requirement like 80% of the time. If either of the new additions don't work out, I'll look to Daze & Foil. Thanks for reminding me of the card though, I'll add it to my Maybeboard
Thanks :P. I'd probably run Capture of Jingzhou and Temporal Manipulation over Walk the Aeons and Biomass Mutation.
Not strictly speaking, no, however, chaining Time Walks together is what generally wins you the game - by letting you draw into something like Notorious Throng or Beastmaster Ascension or Triumph of the Hordes, all three of which I consider superior to Biomass Mutation.
UBX - Milling Zombie Horde (now with spliced mana!)
UBX - Milling Zombie Horde (now with spliced mana!)
Sorry for the late reply, travelling right now. Thanks @foxoftherock for stepping in.
I didn't run Tangle Wire and Winter Orb in the deck for a very long time, and then I decided to test them out, and they aren't really in any fear of being cut. For this deck, there isn't really a "late game", or at least there shouldn't be, unless something went very wrong. The two cards are generally used as disruption so that your opponents are unable to cast a wrath (or anything else of relevance) until you're able to win the game. Tangle Wire affects everyone else more than it does you, as you always stack it so you take a counter off it before tapping things, plus, you tap the artifact itself. Winter Orb is harder to play around, but honestly, once you have like 4-5 creatures out, and you're drawing like 5-6 cards a turn, you don't really need to cast much else. Drop the Winter Orb, leave the rest of your mana untapped, and in a turn or two you should be able to cast a Time Warp or whatever. Note that we also have things like mana elves, Lotus Cobra, Exploration, etc, that counteract the negative effects of Winter Orb. I also recently acquired a Gaea's Cradle that should make it even better. Basically what I'm trying to say is even though at times it may stop you from chaining extra turns - it's going to hinder other people more than it's going to hinder you - helping you to win the game. It also makes things like Spell Pierce and Mana Leak better :P.
Tldr version: If you have the ability to chain extra turns, you're going to win anyway. These cards just help you get there when you're not in such a position.
Hope my reply helps. Feel free to ask any other questions
UBX - Milling Zombie Horde (now with spliced mana!)
As @gma said, it is quite meta-dependent, if you feel the need to run more answers, then you should. I used to run Beast Within before I made room for Chain of Vapor. I've also considered adding things like Snap, Submerge and Rite of Undoing to the deck. I don't really like the sorcery speed ones. Can always counter such spells too.
As for Glacial Chasm - I'm glad I don't see the card too often. If it were played against me, I suppose I'd just keep attacking other players to draw cards and wait it out with a hand full of counterspells.
Uh, makes me feel stupid for not realizing I don't need Bident of Thassa anymore now that Edric can't be tucked lol. You're right, it's going to get the axe in the next update. I can see Skullclamp going too.
I'm probably going to make the update in 10-12 days, since I don't have too much time right now, but it should go something like -1 Bident of Thassa, -1 Skullclamp, -1 Forest, +1 Gaea's Cradle, +1 Crop Rotation, and one more card that I'm not sure about yet.
Thanks for pointing it out though, haven't really played much since the last update.
-1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
-1 Skullclamp
-1 Bident of Thassa
+1 Gaea's Cradle
+1 Crop Rotation
+1 Elvish Pioneer
Notes: Got a Gaea's Cradle for a reasonable price, so it replaces Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. It also means Crop Rotation makes it back into the deck. Since Edric can no longer be tucked, Skullclamp & Bident of Thassa are much less useful and can get the axe. Elvish Pioneer can go back in the deck to fill the last spot.
I already run Winter Orb, however I don't think I need a second one that costs 4 CMC. Thanks for the suggestion though, I'll add it to the list of "other considerations".
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Yup, an auto include
What do you guys think of Honored Hierarch though? Worth testing?
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The reason Craterhoof Behemoth hasn't gone in yet is the same reason Time Stretch got cut, they just cost so much mana. The scenario you describe, you had enough mana to both cast Craterhoof Behemoth & Prowl Notorious Throng O_o Edric doesn't really plan to let the game run that long, although sometimes it's not up to us. I can see how Druids' Repository and cards like that would help you get there though. I like that Druids' Repository is kinda "free", but it does take up a slot in the deck. Keeping in mind that Faerie Miscreant is going in the next update, what would you cut for Craterhoof Behemoth or Druids' Repository? Does anyone else here have an opinion on either of these?
I don't really like him in here at all, why use a creature to loot when a creature costing half the mana can just draw a card instead? When he's flipped - his +1 isn't really great (even if it can make an 2/X an opponent control not draw a card off Edric), his -3 can be good as you said to recast a Time Walk effect, but honestly, isn't something like Noxious Revival just better? Or even Snapcaster Mage? And the Ultimate..we won't even get there, not that we want to. So yeah, I don't really think he should be considered for this deck.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I answer this on the previous page, basically: